Up North Jake - Life's Packages, Rock Bottom, and Following Through - Episode #63

0:00 What's up friends? Welcome back to Ruden Wisconsin. Appreciate you for clicking another episode. Grateful to have you here. Today's episode is with Up North, Jake Northwoods, rapper from Wisconsin. Awesome, awesome episode. We talked a little bit about his art and creation. We talked a lot about life, mindset, mentality. He really opens up about some past struggles he's had and what ultimately led him to stop drinking. We talked about his motivation on a day-to-day basis and what the grind looks like being an independent artist and how you make that come to life. We talked about the value of meditation and mindfulness and gratitude. We talked about his roots based in faith and much, much more. Fascinating conversation.

0:46 I'm so happy to have you here with us for it. As always, a shout out to our sponsors at Carouser. Non alcoholic social beverages delivered right to your door and doing an awesome job with it. You know how passionate I am about removing or limiting drinking from your life, especially with an episode. Talking with Jake and Carouser is a really, really good path to that Epic Mortgage people over profits. They're helping you into your next home. When you buy your house, especially that first house, you know, it can be confusing. The folks at Epic Mortgage here to help with that and our friends at Genuine Lynn, Awesome Wisco Roots Apparel and great partners of the pod. Check out her website.

1:30 A really cool thing she does is that you can have a shop for your business. She does it for a lot of schools and like athletic teams, or you can have a shop that has the things that you want to sell to folks that are supporting you. But often times with that you get these huge shipments of it and you have to have a ton of them and then you try to sell them. You can have a shop on her website where they buy apparel that's custom and it's kind of made to order it's this just in time inventory where it streamlines the process. Check out genuine Lind learn more for that. We appreciate our sponsor so much. These keep they keep the episodes coming and we also appreciate you.

2:11 Thanks for being here. Let's get it going up north, Jake, so have the ways we try to lift our. Where did the love go? Where did the talk? And we need to help to make this. So I ran across your stuff. This is what, a couple months ago? Something like that. We've been in contact. And what immediately drew me to it is I love the resonance of your message of being proud of where you are and shining this like positive light on it.

3:04 That's a big part of what I'm trying to do with the podcast. Like we are Wisconsin and Wisconsin nights are so much more than this. Like the nationwide perception we have of just like cheese curd eating, you know, people here and like so many of your songs and so many of your posts are about being proud of it and shining a positive light on it and stewarding it. And like from from like the first video you had on, I was like, I got to talk to this dude. So what? Like, why do you feel like that? Let's start there. What gives you so much pride about being where you're from? I think, I think at first it was more, I was actually a little bit more bitter about it. Yeah, because and I tried to run away from it. Like as a youth I was just like, man, I wouldn't, I'm never really been like a a big hunter.

3:57 Like I never my dad or wasn't really around much. So he didn't, he didn't like get me into hunting. By the time that I was old enough, my grandpa was like too cold outside. He wasn't trying to teach me how to hunt or whatever. And so like right away I felt like one of the most famous pastimes that we have, I didn't really resonate with like although I was going fishing and you know, like catching turtles and frogs as a kid, like swimming and everything. It I felt like a disconnect when I got a little older. So at first it, it was actually like some resentment. And then I think what I kind of came to was like, no matter what you do or where you go, you are where you're from. And I, and I just started realizing like if I showcase it the way that I am instead of like, instead of the way everyone else like sees it, I almost was like on their side, you know, like, oh, there's nothing here but cows and cheese and, and, and Hicks, you know, because in highs I grew up in a high school with, I grew up in a city like 60,000 people. So like the Hicks were like an actual group in high school, you know, and it's like I wasn't fitting in with them. I was more like with the skaters. And, you know, so the rebellion against the country came when I was like, a little bit older.

5:27 But I realized that, like, the best years of my life, the best times of my life were jumping off the cliffs into the river, fishing with my grandpa, going out on the boat, snowmobiling across the lakes. And then I realized that, like, that's where my piece really, really is. And I was like, at the end of the day, all those things were enjoyed with friends and family. And so embodying like that we have these things we do together that involve our family and our friends all the time is why it's a great place, you know?

6:08 Yeah, dude, it, it connects. I mean, it's easy to look past that in your youth. It's easy to see, like you hear stories about other places and it's really important to get out and see other things too. It it widens your, your depth of life. But at the same time, you realize, at least I did as I aged. You, you you put it plainly and very well that you you are where you grew up, man. Like it's it's connected to you. That's awesome. You. When you're talking about that, I couldn't stop thinking there's this one reel you posted with all those deer hides behind you in a bonfire. Yeah. Like that shines a light on that man. It's striking visually and it's cool.

6:50 Yeah, I think, I think this this this round. Lately I've been trying to be as obnoxious as possible. So like, instead of going to like my friend's house and being like, yeah, let's show the deer mounts on your, on your wall. I'm like, let's go to the rez where my, my homeboy just can, can harvest as many deer as he wants. So he's always has more than everybody else, you know, and he kind of went in, he he went and got musky mounts and mounted them outside for the shot. And his son was in the video with a clown mask on, you know, and we're dancing with deer heads. And I think it's like it's somewhat kind of kind of gruesome, but it's also like, no, this is actually like what these guys do.

7:38 And there's really nothing that you're going to say to change their mind or change what goes on up here. And it's cool, man. It's like, who else can go and do that and shoot a rap video? You know, it's like nobody else because they don't have access like that. Yeah. So. And it would be completely inauthentic, right? You got to be doing that. And you got to be connected to it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's awesome. I, I get a kick out. I must have watched that 156 times like. That one took off pretty good on Instagram. So I, I did like just posting consistently for like 100 days or something and that was like day 46 or something.

8:21 I had got one to go on Instagram. So it was, it was interesting to see how long it took of consistent Wisconsin posting. So I just tried to, you know, just 100% be that guy and not not really go outside of that, even though we're all so many different things. I was like for this round, it's just Wisconsin's just up north. And it seemed to pop off on on every platform pretty well except for YouTube so far. But I man a consistency on that one's a little. Yeah, so different. Yeah. So I teach social media marketing and I can't, I can't figure out YouTube.

9:04 The ones that I put up, the shorts that I put up that I think are just not going to do anything. They'll do five times as better as the ones that I, I think aren't going to do anything. And I I can't figure it. Out and you didn't. You can't figure out why those ones are. Why the other platforms like I generally kind of know like if I did this or if I pulled this string, I try not to do that because like I want it similar to you, I want to make authentic content. So I haven't done much of the skit stuff. I haven't done that those things, but like generally I know with the other platforms, like if I make this type of thing, it'll do pretty well. YouTube. I have no idea what the what the shorts makes them go. It's I think they're they have a formula, but enough about that. That's what I was saying earlier.

9:45 I honestly get no satisfaction out of looking at the number. Like I like seeing the growth, but then I go into business mode where I'm like, how am I doing this? Why am I, you know, how do I get this to scale? And then I'm just like, well, you, you know, I was doing it for myself. And then all the sudden I find myself doing it for every other reason. And I'm like, well, that doesn't make sense because that's not what got me here. You know, like, like I call it my, I just keeps kind of reverting to my latest run because we had talked about earlier, I did that podcast a couple years ago, which is actually when the Up North Jake album popped off. And that's when all the songs that I got better, I'm getting a good run run with right now.

10:29 That's when they are actually released. So it was like a couple years ago and I knew the, I knew what to do. Like I knew, like Up North Jake, I knew it, but it just didn't. It just didn't go. And then when I got more dialed in on just being consistent, I was re sharing a lot of the same stuff, cutting it in different ways, and then it all popped off. And so I was like I knew I was right. And so I kind of doubled back. So I call this like my latest run and it's just it's it's like I said, it's it's just I don't even know what my point was, but it's just more obnoxious and it's more consistent. And it's just kind of like dialing in on one niche thing. You know, the Packer thing was kind of that's that's a third season that the song, that Packer song has been out. Yeah.

11:18 And see, that's what I mean. It's like the players are still relevant. The only. It's weird like that. Like God works in mysterious ways. And it's like it just ended up getting its moment this year instead, you know? And it just proves that you got a, you got to kind of grind stuff out longer than you may think, you know? Life delivers packages, man, and in the universe rewards hard work and intention and it always happens. You know, persistence is super valuable and you know, a lot of times we get it. We want it when we want it, but we get it when we need it. Absolutely. Every time. I think because it's like you, any of you can almost stop yourself and think while you're freaking out about it. Like man, I want this to happen now. You're like, I don't know if you can handle that right now. You might need a minute.

12:06 So I OK, I think there's something to that. I really do, because when I think of all like the things that I've been impatient for in my life that I thought I was ready for, but I didn't get delivered that package. Yeah, when it ultimately ended up coming made complete sense when you look backwards on it. Like I, I was ready. I was just actually talking about this with my wife yesterday. There's a music artist I like that got pretty famous, like relatively young, like he's probably 25 or something like that. Yeah. And I was telling her, like, I can't imagine being delivered a bunch of money and fame at 25.

12:49 The human I was, yeah, probably would have died. Like it wouldn't been ready. Yeah, no way. I, I, I came into a very small amount of money, but it was like sufficient enough at I think it was like 13 years ago and I just blew right through it. It didn't take any time. And I'm like, well, what did I buy? You know, even that is like, you don't even have anything. It's almost like when you're really getting serious about something, whether it be, you know, music or videography or podcast, if you have to buy everything like piece by piece, because you, you have to be very, like you said about intention, you have to be intentional with it.

13:30 And so even having a bunch of money and buying all this gear, it's like, would you use it even because you'd almost be not having to? Why you just buy all the best stuff all the time? Yep. Are you even? Are you committed to the thing you're buying it for or, or is the thing masking the thing that you're buying? Is that masking what the actual missioner end product is? Right. Yeah, So, yeah, man, Life delivers those packages. It's great that yours got delivered because I, I think the message is super cool, man. It's it, it's a, it's a breath of fresh air to see like it, like you said, even the one that you said you're trying to be obnoxious on.

14:13 It's visually striking and stuff. And there is a little things in there that make people look. But at the same time, your core message you can tell is very well thought out and it's very you're trying to do something. Yeah. And that's what gets rewarded. Man, that's awesome. What's up? What's on your chain? I keep looking. At your oh, this is my cousin right here, my cousin Dylan. He had passed away at age 30. I think it's been it was during the middle of COVID like 2022. Yeah, he passed away in 2022. He was just like a he was a the biggest like supporter of mine, but he was he was younger than me. He's my younger cousin, so he really just like looked up to me big time. And, you know, when people like that like pass away and they look up to you like that, it's hard not to be like, man, I wish I would have, you know, been there a little bit more. But he he had a drinking problem. And then when he had got COVID, all of his organs just, you know, like a couple of, you know, whatever he was supposed to work didn't work.

15:18 So it was COVID that got him. I mean, I, I, me being sober almost seven years now from alcohol, I'm going to attribute that to being the biggest factor to be in, you know, to bring him to his demise, honestly. And I feel like it's just one of those things, man, that you got to wash your consumption of. 100%. And I feel like it leads to bad decisions and ultimately the numbing just becomes normality. And then all the sudden your body doesn't work correctly and that and that's, you know, COVID was tough. I don't know if you know, you feel like you had gotten COVID.

15:58 I know everybody has a different view of what what went on, but I definitely got really sick a couple times and it was pretty hard on me. And I'm a guy who doesn't really get sick that much. So I can imagine that his body wasn't wasn't stable enough to react through getting through that and unfortunately we lost them. Yeah, so I didn't. That's something I came across the pond after I started watching your stuff a little bit. But I want to talk about sobriety a bit too, because I I quit drinking probably man, nine years ago now, something like that. Congratulations. Thanks, man. And I am, I didn't know the positive benefits that it was going to have in my life until I did it.

16:44 Dude, it's a it's unbelievable. And I'm now whenever I get the chance to talk about it. And that's another thing about the Wisconsin culture that I, if I was, if I could pull the strings on the puppets, like, I would change that a little bit because I don't like, it's fine. Like I, I don't disparage anybody for drink and I drank my fair share. I look all throughout my life. Yeah. And if they like, that's a choice. And I'm I'm happy for them if it makes them happy. I don't think it makes many people happy. Actually, yeah, I don't either. And secondarily, I don't like how we use it as a positive spin. Yeah, it's weird being a Wisconsinite. It's a weird thing dude. Super weird, yeah.

17:26 So what led you to quit drinking? Drugs. Yep. I was doing drugs every time I drank and then it was like 3 nights a week and then I was in like recovering for three days a week. So then what? I was like half sober for one day a week. I started counting the days that I was hungover, like I was like, let me, let me think of this. So if I do this for a year, how many days am I hungover? And I was like, this is crazy and just rock bottom, really bad decisions. And then I'm like, what are you really trying to do? You know, I, I think there's a lot of self sabotage that was rooted there too, but it was definitely addiction.

18:06 Cocaine was my main drug that just every time I drank, I would be trying to get some cocaine and then I was just like, you know, everything just started getting shitty. Like life was not good like that. And I'm usually a grinder, like super hustler. My mom is super busy person and I get that I think from her and maybe more of my family, family lineage. And I just couldn't hinder that anymore. I'm like, dude, what are you doing? Like you're, you're not the dude that works 9:00 to 5:00 and hates his job and drinks his life away. Like you're the guy that fucking inspires people to quit their fucking job and do exactly what they want every day.

18:51 And that was, that's pretty much the clear, the clearest thought I ever had. I love it man. Good on you for doing it, good on you for doing it. There's a lot of people that get trapped in the circle that have those thoughts, but they don't follow through on it. It's hard, yeah, I get it. But like you said, when you're out of the drinking cycle, it's super simple. Yeah. Because it doesn't even make sense to you anymore. Yeah, you're like, I'm so quick witted and like ready for any conversation, ready for any deal, like anything, you know? And it's like, what are you going to tell somebody? Ordered a few drinks? I'm not ready to make that decision. It's like that's, it's just so childish. It's a weird move man. It really is.

19:34 Yeah. I love that you brought up the lost time aspect. I I was always like, I always got really bad hangovers. And that ultimately ended up being one of the reasons that I quit drinking was I think I developed some type of allergy to alcohol where like the the last drinks I ever had, I played in a golf tournament one day and then I had one beer and one Bloody Mary. And on the way home, I had to pull over my truck, my leg, this wicked migraine, like I couldn't look in the light and anything. And I think it was probably developing throughout my life because my hangovers were always terrible. And it hangs me, man, like it. There's very few things in life that I like truly regret. One that I truly regret is.

20:18 All of the time that I spent laying on the couch on a Sunday, wasting the entire day feeling like shit, yeah, because I was hungover. And that was just one of those things that I had never really thought about because it was like, well, that's what we do. We live in Wisconsin. Exactly. Drunk and then programming. Yeah, and I can't stand that. I can't stand how much time I wasted being hungover. Yeah. Drives me nuts, but man, that's there's so much positivity in that message dude, that that of like the the light on the other end of the tunnel is so bright. If more people just decide to make the make the steps. So that's awesome.

21:01 Got some carousers non alcoholic beverages if you want when they're. These are excellent. Actually, I they sent me a case. Of they said they were going to, yeah. And they're great. And I was like, they're like, tell us your favorite flavors. I'm like, I like all the flavors like, and that actually I, I went to a friend's giving and I brought them there and I drink four of them because everyone else is drinking. I'm like, well, you know, and it's, I don't like, I am a cannabis user, but I actually do smoke my cannabis. I don't like edibles because they throw me off like badly. But these are excellent. They don't have that. They're like probably 1 of the greatest social drinking ideas I've seen so far because they're, they don't fuck you up, but they look like they would like, they look like a craft beer. So you're kind of like, you know, and not say you got to fit in or nothing a lot.

21:56 Of people feel that way though, yeah, a lot of people feel that way. I was lucky that it seems like you may be cut from a similar cloth, but I could really give a shit what other people think, right? So I was, I was one of the lucky ones that it's like, I'll I'll hang out with the same friends. I'll do the same stuff. I will. And I have enough willpower that I'd. I won't drink. It's just fine. I just know I don't want to do it. But a lot of people aren't favorable in that scenario. Like they feel uncomfortable communicating in that environment without having that posted up drink in their hand. Yeah. And it really does. It makes it lowers that level of whatever anxiety that people get about communicating with others or why. Am I here? Why am I here? They're just serving drinks and I don't drink. But you know, it's, it's all fun and stuff. I don't know.

22:43 It's I mean, I do shows so drinking for my fans, like I don't say a lot about that's why when you said what what really deterred you from drinking? It was drugs because it lowered my inhibition. So I was making worse decisions. It wasn't actually drinking. So like. It was the outcome or the impacts of drinking, right? Yeah, sometimes I'm like, man, you know, like it'd be nice to celebrate with a steak or something and have like a bourbon because the menu says, I don't know, you know, this pairs well with this. But it just it just the responsibility of me being the leader that sober is just more important to me. Yeah.

23:24 So it's like, whatever, I'm not, I'm not going to drink because it's I'll just be the one to look up to, you know? Yeah. And how long ago was that? When did you quit drinking? I I so I stopped doing drugs January 19th of 2019. So I'm seven. I'll be 7 years sober on the 19th from drugs and then I drank two more times. I think it was June 6th or Yep, June 6th 2019 was the last time I drank and it was just one shot but yeah. Yeah, nice man. That's similar to Theo's story. Theo Von has a similar story. His his drug of choice was cocaine too. And the the path to him, I don't know if he quit drinking or severely. I think he quit drinking too, but it was the same path. That was, you know, that's another thing alcohol does both in a good way and a bad way is lower inhibitions and worries about things and.

24:18 Yeah, yeah. I remember when I first, like, loved alcohol and it was because I could just talk to anybody. That was the feeling in high school. I was like, I could talk to any girl. I don't, I'm not scared to. And so I think that is like we had to go back to talk about like a social situation. I think the first couple of drinks kind of give these people that, you know, and not said don't remember, but I'm so good at just shaking someone's hand now that it doesn't matter to me. And like just kind of talking right off the cuff of anything about anything. You know, it's really easy for me, but it kind of came with practice, you know, and I think a lot of people haven't practiced without alcohol, therefore it's a hard introduction for them and maybe an awkward and whole awkward experience interaction with someone because they never get over that Like, well, I'm just going to act like I'm buzzed up for a fucking second and I don't give a fuck.

25:18 That's all it is, Yeah. So weird. Yeah, life is weird, man. It is. It is. People are weird. Yeah. That was another thing. So like, coming in super aggressive this time, I knew everyone was going to hate. And it was like, that's what I have to do, OK? I have to fucking be super blatant where some people are, like Wisconsin ain't that hard. And it's like, how do you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's my story to tell, absolutely. And you know. Yeah, it's your unique lens, man. And everybody always tries to do that, paint these big brush strokes over everything, don't they? And it's not what it is, dude. There's, there's the there's nuance in life. And there are one of my favorite songs, a song called You Might Be Wrong by Paul Thorne.

26:05 And he it's exactly that. He just talks about all the ways that like, OK, you might think something, but maybe you're not exactly right. And have you looked at it from every angle and you can't. And why do we, you know, we try to, we try to paint these pictures as humans of. Yeah, like northern Wisconsin, is this Milwaukee, is this central Wisconsin? Is this big city, rural, whatever, blah, blah, blah. You keep going, going, going, right? And that's it's just not effective. It's not the way it is. It's it's like you said, it's just a lens. So it's like, how are you going to say what someone on the north side of Milwaukee dealt with versus someone on the South side of Milwaukee or three blocks away or next door?

26:47 Like yes, it might be similar but dude, you don't know. Like it's just so crazy. Yeah, I had AI had a a professional basketball player on a while back named Kiefer and he grew up in Chicago. And one of the cool stories that he told was like it was chaos outside of his door. Like he lived in a really tough area, a lot of bad shit happening. But he he mentions one of the like main things that pushed his upward trajectory in life. Was he, when he opened his door to go home and closed it, it was pure comfort and love inside, right? And everything outside of his life was chaos.

27:28 Going to school, constantly being in danger. He has so many friends that died from gun violence, right? All this shit. When he closed the door and locked it, there was a loving family unit inside of that house. Foundation built him into an incredible human right. That's a prime example of you're going back to your original point way early in the podcast about your environment dictates who you are as a human, right. It also shapes your perspective on things. Very true. So perspectives are valuable. I don't want to downplay them, but always people. We just have to remember that it's our perspective. Everybody else has a different one. Man, I think I want my kids a lot.

28:09 Yeah, like when I'm super irritated and I'm like, well, they're not irritated. So like their lens is obviously different at this moment. Or like, I'll get like my, like my daughter's name is Ella and I'm like Ella and she'll like laugh at me. That shit's funny to her. I'm pissed. How old are you? I got. 6713 and 18 OK, so I'm, I'm a little older, but I just, I kind of keep that young, you know, spirit. But man, they are the younger ones are so funny, man. And they have this lens that like my son all day yesterday, he's just singing his own little song.

28:54 God is good. It's like they didn't teach him at school. I wasn't singing that at home. It's like they have this lens in this spiritual like intuition that we lose sight of. I've definitely connected with it a lot as of recent because I've, I've just been amplifying what I want to do. Like I'm just, and I know I have to work harder for it. And I think that's as Americans in general, we're pretty lazy and like, we think we don't have to like stay working, but that's what makes us happy at the end of the day. And so I've been really amplifying that up. And they have that. They just know what they may not know what they want to do when they grow up because maybe they want to do 50 different things, but they know so much and they're so in tune and their lens is pure. It's more pure than ours because we've seen so much horrible stuff, you know?

29:51 So it's, it's pretty cool, though, just kind of resonating with like, what the hell are they thinking right now? They're fine, happy as heck. It's like why am I not that way almost. Where they find happiness, man, right? That's been one of the most fun parts about being a dad for me. Is that like constant reminder of his mindset like my kids 4. Yeah, you just got a four year old 14. Year old. Nice. Yeah, OK. And like just seeing him navigate things and curiously explore and just like what you're saying that like be happy in the face of the something that an adult probably wouldn't be happy with or something. It's like, it's a great reminder in life to just like open up the how you look at everything around you. And I combine that with like, I'm pretty good at usually remembering like in the grand scheme of things, like we're on this weird hurling rock falling through space. Like, who gives a shit what happens about anything for real? Like if you combine those two things, I think that happiness is pretty easy to find.

31:00 Yeah. It's great to have that reminder around, man. It's a it's awesome to see their just their take on, on life, right? It's like, like even if you are pissed and and like she's laughing at you, like you snap out of it and you're like, yeah, you're probably right. Yeah, You're like, wait, this is nothing to be mad about, right? Like, the importance of this is minuscule. And I don't know, you know, your kids smiling is always going to kind of bust you out of them. You know, like, what am I worried about? Dude? I have this. I have the right. Yeah, my little dude likes to cook with me a lot. And the other night we were making, this was last night actually, we were making spaghetti, like ragu, like spaghetti red sauce.

31:44 And he like, he likes stirring. So he's stirring the shit and then all of a sudden, like he starts telling a story and the next thing I know he's just whipping his hand around with the wooden spoon and there's sauce going everywhere. Literally, I was going to use that as an example. When they make a mess is the exact time you're mad and they're happy and you're like, OK, well, we're just going to clean this up, you know what I mean? Bring yourself back to like. And it's all art, right? Yeah. It's kind of like paint. Yeah. Paint in the ceiling. I love it. It's awesome, man. It's, it's a great reminder. It's a great reminder of patience and virtue. And just like I, I'm an incredibly better human just because I have a kid.

32:30 Yeah, it's awesome. Yes, it slows things down. I I feel like I have been of dad for a really long time. So I've had different phases and each one gets less, it gets a little more selfless because at first, I mean, I'm 21 years old and it, you just don't, don't understand life that well, that's what you want. You think you do. You don't know shit and no. And, and as you get older, you're like, OK, Dang, I, I should have done this, you know, like I have 4 kids. So like as each one came, I'm like, man, I should, you know, do this. But then I had went through like a rough patch in between there.

33:12 So I had actually like had my last couple kids was like when I got sober, but it I wasn't sober yet. So it was like right when they were born and all that. And so this is kind of like my second chance at being a, you know, a different kind of dad. And I grew up without a dad. Like I'm single parent household. My mom was, you know, working like all the time. So like, I'm very comfortable alone, you know, and like I enjoy being alone too, but I think I let my first kid kind of be alone more than I would have, you know what I mean? I would have just been had her with me more.

33:53 And then my son, he really came with my, he's came with me on really long road trips to do shows and he's been my DJ for a couple shows. And so any, and he used to beatbox when he was younger at, at some of my shows. And so he kind of got a different lens with the music and all that stuff. And, and now the littler ones, I just really enjoy being very structured for them. Nope. 730 bedtime. I read to you. I scratch your back for two minutes. I, you know, and just like it's, it's very much slower than it was before. And I, I really enjoy the structure of it. And I think by me always pretty much either jumping from odd jobs to music and back and forth all the time. There wasn't a structure.

34:50 I wasn't like, yo focused work from 8:00 to 11:00. You know, now I'm on that and that's why, you know, I've caught more people's eyes is because of the structure. You know, I got to, I have to, I have to say, like it just it makes your life better when you're, when you're there for your kids throughout the week. And it's like, you know, Fridays, you know, days to go and do your thing Saturday and then Sundays back to like not being hungover and like being there and being intentional about getting your week planned out. That's why Sunday is so beautiful, right? Because if you don't do that and you're doing that Hangover Sunday thing, man, you're like your week gets away from you. But having that structure with my kids is undoubtedly been the biggest gift, you know?

35:34 And I've always seen like their first. I've always been there, like first steps and I've always been there, but I was more sporadic with how I was working so I was missing more unintentionally. Yeah, and that stuff matters a ton. Yeah, it's awesome. What a what a gift, dude. What a gift to get like the second shot along with the reflection to do it a different way. Yeah, it's great. That's where you got to balance your dream and stuff because you're like, what is going to be more important in five years? So valuable, so valuable and I think that's another gift that kids give you. I never, I never thought like that when I wish I would have sometimes because like I toiled at a lot of areas where like, yeah, maybe I was working in radio and it was cool getting paid to talk or whatever.

36:25 But I could have been making different career moves that pad me in a different position to do something else. And I'm really grateful with how things turned out and I got there and everything. But you know you can. You can fast track anything with a different mindset. Yes, yeah, we are. Me and my my friend were talking about that right before I got here because he's getting me into a different revenue stream and just talk about mentors like their lens and they fast track you to save years of like man, what do I do? I'll just do this I'll just do that. Or the worst is like we had talked about Instagram earlier and mine's I think I'm at like 8000 right now to my Instagram was at 3000 for years.

37:07 I mean, because you start counting the shit, like you're counting the chick is where they hatch or you're not, you're not really knowing what to do at all. You know, like I literally had to teach myself that. And like, I might have watched a couple YouTube videos, but man, it really just took like just do, do, do, do, do. But you know, if a mentor is like, yo, I guarantee you in 35 days, your Instagram's going to hit just post 7 times a day. Are you telling me that you wouldn't go do it with more enthusiasm? Like I guarantee you would, you know, but there's not a lot of there's not a lot of answers.

37:49 And everyone's trying to get these views and shit instead of providing quality value, they're just kind of being pieces of shit trying to sell you something that doesn't exist, you know, and then they're selling courses and they don't even know what they're doing. It's just like, can we just be honest with the information And and like, you know, if you had a mentor who could just show and prove, it's like fast track right to what I need. Absolutely. Do you have that in the music industry? No, you don't have that. Nope, I've never had that. So I've had, I used to work back when I about 2013, 2014, I was working with this dude named Zilla, who's now Yellow Wolf's manager. And just meeting with him a couple times and shooting photos and video with him a couple times taught me quite a bit about like owning my beats, just getting like contracts for everything and how tour works, how features work, just, you know, getting answers for real.

38:57 Because once again, it's like if you were to message an Instagram account, they can act like these are the way things work, but they're really just trying to probably hose you for some money. It's like you don't get a real answer, you know? So that's been just trialed by fire for you just through it and just seeing what works. Yeah, mostly everything I I would say like the most, the recent stuff of posting and editing was like YouTube videos. I feel like I found like the right couple people that were serious. But you can pile so much stuff from everywhere that it's kind of like, I can't remember all this. Yeah, I can't perfect all this at once. What am I focusing on?

39:42 You know? And so I tried to focus on Facebook, and I feel like I kind of figured that out, which is just like, insane volume and, like, hooks, like the hook that's going to grab people, you know? And I started talking in third person, like, it was a fan page. Like this guy really from Wisconsin, It's like, well, he would know. He's the one that's posting his own content. But like, no one picks up on these things. Like I got people on there like, yeah, he's from Wisconsin, he's from my city. Or it's like, bro, it's me posting it, you know, or these fake reaction videos that I've been making. It's like, Oh my God, I can't believe you got kind of react.

40:23 I'm like, I didn't this is a fake video. But if that's what it takes, guys, you got to play the. Game, dude. Yeah, What? You've been captioning those? Something like what? Like this guy watches. Northwoods is impressed with Northwoods rapper Snap. Can't believe. This. It's just so it's like almost demeaning as a as a person, but then you're like, this is a brand. Me as a person, I don't have my name is an up north Jake. Like that's the brand, you know, and you get you get so emotional and then you're like, dude, I got to detach from this stuff because that detaches you from the comments. You're like, yeah, it's me.

41:06 But it was just a, it's just a lightning strike from God like that I wrote that song that isn't my like doesn't go with me when I leave. I don't know, it's weird. And I've had moments where it's like, I don't even know how that got done. I don't even write music anymore. So I just punch in like, so I'll just do a line like Bros, when the motherfucker frozen code, stop the track, sit there and think, get the next line and then you know what I'm saying? OK, up North Boydon, get froze, don't stop, punch back in. And it just sounds like it's all one take. You know what I mean?

41:46 So it's just idea after idea with no middle man messing it up. That can happen in 12 minutes. So in 12 minutes you got one minute of a song with 500 words. I said, where did that come from? I don't know. Like I'm not attached to that. I didn't write it down and rehearse it 60 times to have made it in 12 minutes. Now I'm going to go like eat lunch or something. So it's like I'm no more attached to that than I am like the idea of what I want to eat. It's just a quick idea. It comes and goes. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of creators that that have a similar sentiment on that. I have another songwriter on and I, I've heard some famous songwriters talk about this, about how, like, they don't even truly feel like they move the pen anyway. Like they they make the conscious decision to pick up the pen.

42:41 Yeah. But then it's another one of those packages delivered and then your job is to decipher. Is this a good one or does this one go and then I try something else? Right, exactly. And I'm no more attached to that song. Like the song I'm attached, more attached to probably than anything would be a song that that isn't, isn't that like it would be something I wrote about my wife or be something I wrote about my kids or a feeling of like when there was a memory of my family being out on a boat, like, and it's like they don't know that that's a memory that I'm like directly correlating with. But that's kind of like how it really works. The addiction stuff.

43:25 There's I got a couple tracks out there like that and man, I like to get away from those as fast as possible. Yeah, those ones don't feel good, but they're just like, they're just like a responsibility thing to God. Like my responsibility is to write these and like put them out there. You know what? Do you? What do you mean by I don't feel good? It brings it to a bad place. Yes, it's depressing as shit. Yep. Singing them on stage. Anything dude. Like I just I'm our like right now. I just like tense up about just thinking about it because it's a time in my life that I don't care to remember.

44:05 Yeah, some of my favorite artists have songs like that. Actually. I love Jason Isbel and he has a song called Cover Me Up. And he actually, I don't know that he stopped doing it, but he definitely played it less sporadic It there's a there's a verse in it about like tearing his wife's dress when he was drunk and he also quit drinking. He's sober now too. And like for similar sentiment, I think it brings you to the spot. But the thing with that dude is it, it's almost the suffering that you go through in that. I think what would give me some solace is someone listening to that might make a different decision because they can sense that you feel it.

44:51 Like even when you sing it right now, like energy is powerful and how you share a message is powerful. And if they if they benefit from it, there's some value in it, man. Yeah, and once again, it's not, it's not up to me. That's my responsibility to God. Like that's the gift he gave me. So I, I have to speak on that stuff like it's just is what it is. And undoubtedly I've changed certain like people's lives for sure. Like I hear that all the time because I too, like, I toured quite a bit. 20/20/21 2021 I don't know. I went on a lot of shows, dude.

45:32 I did like a lot. Like I did like 3 tours back-to-back. So it was just, it was a lot. I'm going back on tour this year actually. I'll be out there April, June, August and October. So I'm doing which this is the coolest tour schedule ever. Three weeks on, five weeks off. So I'm able to come back home and kick in with my family and regroup. And I don't like the long runs, dude. It'd be tough. They're just draining and I don't make enough money yet. Do you know what I mean? Like straight up, if I was like, even if I was making money, I'd probably spend it on set design anyways because I'm super into like the fan experience. But you know, having a number being like, yo, we're going to pay 5K to get here 8K, you know, then it's a little more like, dude, I'm doing, I'm doing something right. But even when I'm not getting paid, I feel like I'm doing something right.

46:24 And it's like those songs that I, I just breakdown, I do one or two because I do the song called Choosing me at every show. And that one is just a song is devoted to the Lord. It's just like giving thanks to Lord for choosing me to be, you know, anointing me to be like this leader. And but then I do the an addiction song or two and someone always come up to me crying, dude. And they're like, thank you for doing that song. Because I, I often dedicate it to the addicts, but also the family members and the friends of addicts because like, people don't understand, like they literally almost have an addiction with you, like trying to pull you out of this, this hell that you've created, you know?

47:10 And it's like they just worry about you and wonder what you're doing. And so, yeah, so it's, it's just, it's really cool. And I know I'm always doing it for someone and they always come on tour, man. That's that's where they really, they might hear it online, but dude, them sober songs on tour, there's always someone in there. And it's like, man, thank you so much. And and those are like lifelong people, dude. They're not going anywhere, you know. Oh. Yeah, when you move somebody like that, they're with you. Yeah, they're there. That's so awesome man. It's just you talk about leadership a lot. Yeah.

47:53 And I'm getting a sense of hearing you say that that that's your feeling around it or that's where that leadership kind of like frame of mind starts. Am I get am I in the right spot there about like the gift you've been given in the packages that have been delivered to you, You lead with with those through that. Is that through sobriety or just just with your music in general you're talking about, you know, like the is it Northwoods General? Yeah, Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Like leadership is another interesting thing to me and it, it means so many different things, but I'm getting a sense of what it means to you. But it might be better in your words. Like what?

48:39 Where does that come from? Where does the leadership lens come from? I don't feel like I was ever programmed into being a follower like a lot of people were. And I just want to remind people that it's like you might think you, you aren't qualified to be a leader, but you undoubtedly are. So like I'm not, I definitely got that, that ruler archetype with the Northwoods general, right. But when you think about what, like my, my whole play is as the Northwest general, it's it's outlandish. Like it's like people are like, what in the hell is he talking about?

49:20 And that's kind of part of the leadership is like do it to the biggest of your ability, whatever idea you have in your mind. And I think that's kind of just the foundation of it. You are qualified to go do whatever you want, as big as you want and then lead others to do the same thing. So it's like, it's just, it's so simple in a sense of like we're all important and we're all not important at the same time, like. Yeah, awesome. That that's so good, man. That's so good. And that's like a core piece of leadership that doesn't get talked about as much.

50:03 But you just hit the nail on the head of like removing other people's self-imposed barriers. So many people are like, I can't do this because of this. I can't do this because of bullshit. You can do whatever you want. I remember what like literally vaguely, probably four months ago, I was, I was, I, I identified with what was going on with me and what it was was I was scared to be as big as I imagined the the character being and myself being because of everybody else. So the other Wisconsin artist that I may work with don't work with. I was scared to be like, no, I'm the biggest leader. I'm the fucking king. I was scared to do that.

50:44 And then I'm like, who better than me? And if they got a problem with that, then it just doesn't fall into my movie. Like, I'm the main character here. And so I think everyone just needs to be the fucking main character, their life. 100% And I think it's really interesting because you do that in a way, because there's a way to do that. There's a way to have that mindset that isn't healthy and isn't effective and it almost burns bridges, even though you might burn some bridges with that. But I would argue bridges that could be burned anyway. But a lot of times it doesn't. But the you seem to do that through a very healthy lens of like, if you don't champion yourself, no one else does. And that's not, that's not, you know, arrogance in a bad way. That's not all any of those things. Because I can tell by talking with you for 40 minutes or everyone we've been going that you also balance that with the healthy realization.

51:48 And you just said it. I don't know what it was verbatim, but you said like it in a nutshell. It meant like, everything matters, but nothing matters, right? And as long as you have that sense, like you have to champion yourself, you have to walk into that room and say I'm the shit at what I do. If you don't, no one will say you are. It's, it's like, I don't know, man. It's there's no easier way to say it, but it, it's like a mystical thing. It's a frequency. If you're on that frequency of like, yo, on the shit, everyone's like, yeah, you are. And it goes, I do this affirmation all the time. Like the universe is on my side 100%. Like it wants me to win. Everybody in the world wants me to win.

52:29 Like obviously this is these haters that are like 2%. But dude, everybody, they do. If you want yourself to win, they do want you to win. And it's the same thing with the champion in yourself. If you want to be a champion, they want to lift you up to be the champion. Yeah, absolutely. And in turn, the art that comes out of you when it reflects that is an extension of that mentality. Right. That's so good dude. Do you want one of these? I'm going. To have a? I'd love to. That's awesome. Is it Caruser? Carouser. Carouser Yeah, Carouser Sea Breeze. The best non alcoholic beverage on the market.

53:14 He's got a cool story too. His name is Dan, the guy who started this company, and he's a he's a cool dude in a lot of ways. He would resonate with a lot of what we're talking about. It's awesome, man, though you can, it's great to, it's awesome when you meet people, you talk about frequencies. It's awesome when you meet people whose frequencies vibe and they're on the same level and there's something magical about that that like it creates energy. It's, it's so great. I want to talk about more about that affirmation, though. Do you do like what, what is your, what is your process with that? Are you meditating daily Affirmations like speaking about I did a manifestation journal for a while that I loved. Like what are you, what are you doing with that? What?

54:03 I slack. I slack on the journal. I I feel like I could benefit from journaling a lot more, but my main one lately has been walking. I just walk for 1/2 an hour. Sometimes I'll listen to scripture, sometimes I'll listen to like sleeping music because it helps me think. But lately I've been trying not to listen to anything because my thoughts come a lot clearer and like more intentional to use that word to use earlier. It's like more what's going on in my life for real, instead of like, oh, you know, this person's telling me something in my ear. And now I'm like kind of paying attention to maybe that is a part of my life or, you know, whatever, right, Because even scripture can be that way where it's more like, you know, it says something to you instead of like, you know, it can't. But God has a really good way of like giving you the right scripture there on the right day usually. But walking has been most my, my meditative state, I feel. But I, I hit the gym four to five days a week and that helps a lot.

55:03 Just kind of like getting in that meditative state, getting set up for winning reading. I've been doing that the past few months way more than I have in my entire life. And that also kind of gives me that. But the affirmations usually come with the ice cold shower after the gym because you got to stay in there for a second. So you got to find something to like, you know, and I usually go right, like because it's freezing, like I'm usually like just start thanking God for all my blessings. I thought that as a way to like offset it, but that's kind of I try to be intentional with affirmations all throughout the day. You know, like hopefully right when I remember and I leave here and I'm driving away, I just start thanking God for, you know, our us having a connection, us having a great conversation, you know, the podcast going well, just all that stuff because it really is in the smallest things where you're like the stuff you want can supersede in your mind the stuff you need.

56:09 And when the stuff you need is fulfilled, the stuff you want doesn't mean shit. When you're like, I have everything I need, then that's when everything comes too. And if you can't get in that I almost found nothing comes. Yeah, I, yeah. And I think there is a power to that, that exact thing, because when when you search for the things you think you need but truly don't, it's empty, so empty. So who's going to deliver? Why would it? Why would anybody do? Why would anything, any frequency, deliver that package if it's going to be empty for you anyway, you know?

56:50 Yeah, back to what we were talking about when you said after it comes, you're like, if I would have got this, then it wouldn't have been good. And it's the same. It's the same thing, dude. It's just too much want over. Do I have what I need? Really can mess you up dude. Absolutely. Yeah. That's. Oh, that's such good stuff, dude. That's a man there. We have a lot of overlaps. So I, I like 12 months ago, something like that, I put a sauna in my basement. So I started working out at home. Fuck. And I take these cold showers too. Like the cold shower is the worst dude. How do you get in?

57:30 I have to ask this because I could only ask a couple people. What do you say to yourself right before you jump in the shower? What do you say to yourself that gets you to? Man, most of the time it's just do it like I'll just try to like. Like Nike? Blank out everything. Just do it. Just don't be a Jackass. Just do. It no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You get now you're saying it is don't be a Jackass. That's the one, right? I say don't be a bitch and then I just get in because you can't stick your foot in. You have to like whoosh or you will not want to. Yeah, you can't creep. You can't. Creep, you can't. Creep. No, I So I do it a little bit differently. I wish I had a cold plunge.

58:13 But what I'll do is after my sauna, I get in the shower and I take like a normal temperature, like rinse off and then I crank the handle. Wow, you're that sounds. Way worse. It's devastating, it's terrible every single time. But I like, I guess what, when I think about it, what really gets me through it is I know how awesome I'm going to feel when it's done right. So like I'll take that regular temperature shower and then I'll just turn it all the way as cold as it'll get. And I just grit my teeth and, and just like just think about how good I'm going to feel in 3 minutes when I'm done with it. And it's tough. It's got to be harder to go from, like the warm to the cold. I feel like it's like when you're in bed and you like, get up for a minute and then lay back in bed. You're like, bro, you were already up. Like, what are you doing?

58:59 You know? But yeah, no, I, I, I like that. I bet there's a mentality switch of like, I'm about to flip the switch to cold, you know, like, yeah, I'm in, I'm comfortable and now I'm going to create discomfort, you know? Yeah, there's so much power in that dude. I think that's half of what the probably over half of the positive benefit comes from that because there's a bunch of peer reviewed like stuff that says what cold does for your body, especially after workout. Yeah, I've heard all that. Yep. But I think the vast majority of the benefit that I get from it is having the power in my mind to say I'm just going to do this right now.

59:39 I don't have to step out of the shower and be completely comfortable, right? But I'm still going to choose to do it for real. And that's super powerful. And I think that most of the time I saw it in the morning and then I'll do that before I start my day. And I can think of a lot of times where I'm throughout the day and I'm like, this ain't shit. Like I turned that handle this morning. That sucks. That's that's crazy. I always, I'm a very I'm, I'm like secretly competitive, but I literally am like, well, will any of these other motherfuckers do this? And if the answer is no, I'm like, well, then I'll do it. It's like I go shoot below 0. Why? Because no one else will. Like it's just a thing with me, you know?

1:00:20 And it gives you that little edge. It's like, I'm not a super beast, but I have those little secret competitive like intelligence. Like bro, it will set you apart from the herd. And if it sets you apart from the herd, it's good. Like usually. Absolutely, you know? So few people are willing to do that. So few people are willing to make those decisions, right? Like we don't all have to be David Goggins, but if you get a little bit of David Goggins in you, man can do a shit load for you. What's? Crazy is, I was going to bring this up. I just watched a podcast with him and this other dude. I'm not even going to try to remember who it was because it always goes that way. But the other dude was telling him about this part in our brain.

1:01:04 When we do shit we hate and just go through with it and literally hate it, the part in our brain grows and it's directly correlated with our will to live. So it's just a, it's just a cool thing, man. Every time you're like, God, I hate this, but you're doing it. You're you're literally like your life force is like growing. You know that shit still? It's awesome, dude. Yeah, I love it. How'd you get to that? How'd you get to how long you been working out like that? And. I've been I was working out before I got sober, but but I don't I just I went with people like different people and they would like the sauna, cold shower, sauna called dude. I used to do intervals of that with one of my with one of my friends and and then this other dude got me into lifting heavy for a while.

1:01:56 That was cool. It's just a little too hard on me. I got like a lot of injuries. But as long yeah, dude, it's like, as long as I lift lighter and do Max reps, I'm good to go, You know, and I and I never would like got into it to be the most fit guy. Just I didn't want like to be everything slouching, you know, all my, you know, it's just like I did that forever, dude. And then eventually I just started investing in my body a little more and, and I went in waves and shit. Now I just do what I feel and I know what makes me feel good. And this latest run with the discipline of everything, I analyzed that sometimes I would over discipline and then fall off really hard. So I didn't do that this time.

1:02:42 I was like, man, just just creeped. Easy word. Just creep up on all your progress with everything you're doing. So whether you start with two pages in a book, eventually you just start reading for 30 minutes and you're like, shit, this is cool. I you almost crave it. So I started seeing that and more and more. But seven years, probably 8-9 years of working out at the gym kind of thing and then getting sober. I've had went up and down. I had a year where I injure, I went into a boxing class and I injured my arm right here and it's still kind of, I don't know what the hell I did, dude. I punched the bag and it just shot up my arm.

1:03:24 And then I kind of like continued the workout like a dipshit and then really made it bad. And so I got into skating, which is what I did when I was younger, like aggressive rollerblading, like around the 90s, it was super popular. And so I got back into that for like a year and got actually probably better than I ever was. But then I just was, I was racked, dude. I would hurt myself all the time. And my drive was high. So it was almost like I had to chill on that. I think that was the year 20, 22. It was, I went super hard and I ignited like a whole group of 40 year olds to get back on skates. Like they're still skating every week.

1:04:05 I'm like, see, that's like the leadership I have. Like there's like they started a skate shop and everything in Eau Claire and I'm just like, I don't know what happened there, but I'm proud of like igniting that fire under those guys. You know, they got a little skate community again. And but I started getting hurt, went back out of that. Had a great year with that though. And then this year or like the past four months, walking has been my thing. Couple miles, maybe a few miles a day, just like 3 good half an hour walks, dude. And it's just so nice. My dog absolutely. Like she went from like thinking I was OK to like she just, I'm just my dog now. She don't care about nobody else, you know, but I've noticed the muscles that you gain like in your abdomen and like, it's different.

1:04:53 It's like cool. It's like a nice foundation, man, so. I'm glad you brought that back up. That's the other overlap. So I walk every morning. Yeah. I used to podcast and I can't remember how long. It was still the summer that I I stopped listening to something as I was walking. And now I just walked. Yeah. And I agree completely with your take. Like the whole mindset shift is much better now. I get more time to think and kind of like not only manifest and get to that meditative state, but I also just like planning my day. Instead of like listening to some other people talk, let's listen to my own internal. Voice and let that. Is that the first thing you do when you wake up? Very close it used to be. It used to be before I had a kid and actually up until he was probably 2 or so, it was.

1:05:41 It's so not. It's so it's the best you just get to detach for a second from every the whole world. You're like that really that really set up my mind state for the for now. Like I feel so much more empowered and it's literally just that small little like go for a walk right away right when you wake up. So weird how that changes your perspective. 100% I'll definitely get back to it. Right now I do the my wife is not a morning person so I do the my. With our kid, yeah. So I usually like I'll wake up and we usually wake up about the same time. And then I do like our breakfast stuff. We read a couple books and really that centers me in a different way. I don't think it's better or worse, but it it's definitely helpful that it gives me some of the lens we were talking about earlier of how to view the day.

1:06:31 Yes. And then as soon as he's good, he's taken care of Mama's, had her coffee, and then he's on to Mama, right? Then I can then I can take care of my mental state, take the walk, and I still get all the same benefits. I started using a weighted vest recently. I like that. Cool it. It hasn't really changed anything other than I think it's just a little, probably better like workout. Yeah. Yeah, dude, that's a pivotal part of my life. Been doing that for a long time. But yeah, I used to right away in the morning. I had a dog at that time too. We've since lost him, but yeah, we and him would do our 5:00 AM walks. People like my, especially my Co workers used to think I was crazy.

1:07:11 Like it. It's 365 days a year. Like, I don't care if it's pouring rain. I don't care if it's just snow to foot last. Night. No, no, me neither. You get warm fast though. I think that it's so weird how we over dramatize shit like that. Oh, it's cold out. Like, isn't that why you bought a fucking $200 coat? You know, or whatever. Or like it's like, but I realized that it's just, it's so refreshing to just be outside right away in the day, like in the morning. It's just, it doesn't matter. Like you said, dude, it just doesn't. And that's me too to 5:00 AM because the bus picks up the kids like 650. So I get them up at 5:50 so that it's just a small window there. But next week I really want to get back to that. This week I've been staying up a little late editing, doing different things.

1:08:00 It's like ever changing, trying to figure out the wheel of this madness, you know, but but my kids enjoy getting going on the bus and I was waking up a little later and taking them to school and stuff. But I mean, whatever, you know, long as you're there for them, it's like. Yeah, it's easy to put too much pressure on yourself in that. It's very easy to do, especially like my kids in a probably, I don't know, he's like a few month phase right now of like he always wants me, he wants to be with me. Yeah, my kids are like that all the time. Well, not my older ones, but my younger ones are. Yeah. Especially my daughter. She like, where you going? Where you going? Because she's my running gunner. Like she just likes to do things. So I get it.

1:08:43 Yeah. And and that in turn, what's pressure you? It's really easy to put pressure on yourself. Yeah, man, this isn't going to be like this forever. Am I going to miss this because I'm going to take this 45 minute walk That's crazy. Do this piece of thing, like do this thing for the podcast that I know is going to do well, but like, am I trading that for time or whatever? It's easy to. Do that but. At the same time, there's also a lens of that leadership thing you're talking about earlier. Sure, that's what he wants in this moment. What does he need in 10 years? What does he need in 15 years? Yeah, that's a tough one, right? To like, no. And I like I have, I have other kids. And I was like, in those moments I made a different decision. And now I'm thinking maybe, you know, this new lens that I have is like, yeah, maybe I should, you know, do that or this or that. I being a musician and moving around a lot, I always kind of seen them just coming with me.

1:09:37 Like eventually, you know, you got enough fucking money and just put them on the bus and like that's where they had for the next two months or whatever, right? But it's not like that. I don't think you know, you got to go to podcast in Green Bay randomly and you got to do stuff without them and not be there for the night. Maybe because you it was a better decision for your career to pop over here. And I think that also makes you a great leader is that you are showing them that you're do you have to do all these little things to build the house, you know? Exactly. That's exactly what I was getting at. Yeah. Like what? What they see in that moment, if they reflect back on that, they're not going to think like, oh, he didn't want to be here or that they're going to think he was doing what he needed to do to set me up for success. Right.

1:10:28 Same thing. Yeah, dude, actually the her name is Tay, the the woman who does the podcast song in my intro. She just had her I think it's their second baby and her partner is the in the band and the the father of the children. OK, so they did that like I went and saw them last summer and they were doing they were going to go do a run out in like Oregon. And I was like, what's it like bringing 2 like? Or what's it going to be like bringing 2 but even 1 like baby in diapers just with you on tour, that be tough. But at the same time, she had a similar sentiment. She's like, that's it's what it is, you know, And then this is what we're going to build. And it's awesome, man.

1:11:09 Yeah, I don't think there's there's how would you put it, the fact that you think about it, what's you had of so many other people because they don't even just consider it, Right, Right. So yeah, man, let's let's shift gears a little bit. You've mentioned faith a few times. How does that intersect in your life? I feel like it's, it's, it literally has to be the foundation of your happiness because like you cannot have faith and worry or faith and fear. Like you have to pick what it's like. You can't be indecisive about these things. You know what I mean?

1:11:52 And it's I really like that word intention you used earlier. Like if you don't have intention, it's easy to be in between those. But if you know exactly what you're doing, then you know, God is like leading the path. And I think that's the way to think of it is not what I want now or is this going to happen? Because none of that is really up to you, like and back to responsibility. If you look at it like I'm responsible to be this leader or I'm responsible to take care of these things and you know, God said that in front of you to handle. And it's kind of like one step at a time because you don't get to choose 1000 steps down the road.

1:12:39 You can try and aim for that, but it's the one step at a time stuff that has to be handled. And that's, that's where I try to leave it. You know, I, I call my, I call my body the calculator because like we can always malfunction, dude. The calculator malfunctions, dude. So like your soul and your spirit has to be like in full faith, and the rest of that stuff just has to kind of subside. That's interesting man. I like that I spent a lot of thought time on. So I guess to, to give a little underlying or foundation so that I'm not, I'm not like a member of an organized religion, right? But like 15 years ago, if you asked me like I was just leaned into being agnostic, like I have no idea what it is like that was me then.

1:13:32 Now, even though I, I don't affiliate with any specific religion, I, I've spent a lot of thought time on the value of exactly what you just said, the value of, you could call it letting go. Like people that are strong in their faith, they, they let go and they allow things to develop with them like right. And and they don't try to force things like we were talking about you, you understand how powerless you really are, right? And I've thought it spent a lot of thought time about the value of just that mindset that religion brings, like just that mindset, not nothing of the belief structure, right, right, right.

1:14:17 The mindset. Yep. Then conversely, where does, how does that balance with whichever 1 ultimately ends up being? Right? Like when we meet our maker and we find out like like there's other dimensions, there's places we're going to go, What is the balance between the value that came out of both of those things? So I'm still searching for the the ladder. Yeah. The prior I've developed a relatively well in, but I think I could do better if I find the ladder that resonates with me. Yeah. And I don't know, I've spent a lot of thought time on that man like because I think just just that mindset is so valuable to receiving those gifts.

1:15:01 Yeah. And someday I'll probably connect it with that other side of like this faith that I resounds with me. So you you need a you feel like you don't have the ladder of religion. Yeah, I'm not connected to any specific religion. Yeah. So you feel like once you find that it'll bring you closer to what divinity like you're you're being content maybe or like what do you mean or your faith in general? More so those packages being delivered. If, if I find that I think it, it, there's, there might be a side like I don't yearn for it. But at the same time, like I like knowing things and I'm curious and like the closest thing I've come to, I learned, I had the situation where I learned a lot about a different segments of Eastern philosophical principles like Confucius and Buddhism and like all of a bunch of different kind of silos of Eastern philosophy. And that's what really opened my eyes to recognize that maybe there is something out there that I could align myself with. Yeah, because I, I was a bit surprised about not so much like the core principles because like the the core principles are generally act in a, a way that's healthy and good. And they're like all religion.

1:16:27 Most religion points to you in a direction of like goodness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never realized until I learned all that about eastern philosophy that like even past that, even deeper than pushing into acting in a good way, they are. There's so many overlaps in why the belief system is structured that way in specific religions. And that leads me to believe or like my current state of where I'm at today, which could change tomorrow, but where I'm at today is like kind of a God is everything mentality.

1:17:07 Yeah. Like no matter if you're a Buddhist or you're a Christian or you're a Catholic or whatever it is, like there's a oneness about it. Absolutely. That I hadn't found until like relatively recently, yeah. Like that was just a few years ago that I, that I learned that and I'm, I'm definitely on this journey of trying to figure out like what that, what that understanding means to me now. You know what I mean? Yep. So I guess that's how I would answer that. Yeah, I don't. I don't think I really know what the hell is going on at all with us, with any of it. You know what I mean? And I don't think searching all of them for the because there I'm never going to know, you know what I mean?

1:17:51 So it's like people probably argue with me and I say God and sometimes I say The thing is I have like native homies, dude. Like they don't believe in Jesus Christ. They don't talk about they talk about the spirits and like, you know what I mean? So I watch how I say things because because other people have different views, right? But at the same time, a lot of people I think also aren't so engulfed in the belief of it as they are engulfed in the mind state that they get from it. They are more content with not knowing and being having a good life then like arguing about the facts with someone from a different religion.

1:18:38 Yes, and that's the goal. So for me, I may listen to, you know, Scripture, but it's just the message in the wholeness that I get from the entire the entirety of being in this online church community because I don't go to church. I watch like a certain pastor that I like and that's the guy I usually watch. But as far as knowing the answers and like, no, I know you ain't going to get that from me and I'm not, I just don't argue anything that I haven't like really, you know what I mean? Been seen whatever.

1:19:18 And then even then I'm really I'm just not much for arguing anymore at all because it's really, it's usually ego based. Oh yeah, it's not. It's never our just want to state my opinion. It's like I want to be right, and it's like I don't think I really care if I'm right. I think that's kind of like the point. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I don't really have to be right, you know, and and I actually need a lot of people who disagree with me because I need this to be successful. And if I'm just laying in the middle line of I don't know, it's like, man, I might as well just, you know, go hard with whatever, you know, And and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong type stuff. But but I do, I do believe in God. I don't, I couldn't tell you like any scripture, you know, none of that like. None of it like you know what I mean and it's just the lessons that I learned from that book being read back to me by a pastor basically and him explaining it in his own words. That's what I get out of it and having faith that there already is a plan.

1:20:19 And I wanted to say this when we were talking about that what you do everyday, I think ultimately changes the way God makes the plan. Like, you know how some people are like it's just, it's just written. It's going to be what it is. It's like, well, no, it's like the frequency can change the plan in one moment. If you decide to say something to this person and now you're in a different position, you got a new job, you got, it's like so it can, I don't think that it's all like written and laid out. I think it's, I think it's rewritten by the moment. I think you're writing it. But God is like, OK, we can make an alternate ending to this now, Now that he reached out, you know, to this guy and they did this podcast and he and he let his fear down. And now maybe I should bless him with these other three things. And now the ending is going to change. I think that's more how it works. That's really similar to where I'm at. Yeah.

1:21:13 You don't know. It's, it way oversimplifies it, but I think it's a thing that can land a lot of folks. Remember the game The Sims? I do, yeah. It's like the first PC game almost in a way. I don't remember but Doom too like Doom was in there. Yeah, dude, it was, Yeah. Wow. But I think that's kind of like an embodiment of that. That's that sentiment, you know? Like it's, you know, you could click, you get 4 options, right? Are you going to go to work or are you going to sit on the couch or are you going to eat this or that? Yeah, like. I think there, I love that how you put it in it in that embodies some of my thoughts around it is like, yeah, everything can't be written. But at the same time like, well, it's back to the packages we were talking about.

1:21:59 It's you know, it circles that in. It's like, OK, you can alter your path, but at the same time there's this oneness of everything that is going to continue whether you're there or not. That's why it doesn't matter, right? But at the same time, it matters all the matters. Absolutely, because if you're, if you're going and doing something you're not supposed to do, like using drugs and stuff, you are messing up the ecosystem like of what could be. And like you create ecosystems. Like you're so powerful as a human. It's like, dude, once you realize you were this guy and you're going and with intention, you're going to do this. I mean, dude, you just change people's lives, dude. That's what the leadership is really all about. Is like inspiring people just to do something better with themselves, you know, Because man, there's just a lot of mediocrity.

1:22:52 I, I get it, but it's like, it's like they don't want to be like that. Yeah, 100. Percent me and my stepdad always have this argument about cover bands. I go that fucking looks like it sucks. Well not if they wanted to do that. I'm like, I don't believe any fucking musician ever wanted to do that. Me and him get an argument about it. I believe they want to sing their own fucking songs and now they're stuck doing this shit. You know, it's hilarious. I still can't remember the name of the band, but the episode I did earlier today I referenced. Do you know that band that sounds just like Led Zeppelin? Do you know them at all? No, I I've heard of. I just heard of them though. You know how that shit gets around? The Internet goes viral quick. It's.

1:23:33 Funny, I just referenced it this morning, but yeah, that's alert. So what's his, what's his take like? What's his side? Of your I just wants to argue, you know what I'm saying? No, I think, I think he thinks it's fun to play other people's music. And as a musician, I don't play guitar or anything. So maybe I am wrong, but I don't think the front man, I don't think the front man ever wanted to sing other people's songs. Then again, I don't sing other people's fucking songs so I wouldn't really know and sometimes I I do. I've learned songs to sing them and do covers and stuff, but I could. I think it goes back to the drinking though too, because what they get is they get X amount of dollars, each of them get paid and then they get a bunch of free drinks. So then and then a lot of them are sleeping with different chicks all across Wisconsin or whatever. So they're into like this addicted, like they're addicted to the program dude of like sleeping with different women. The attention, it's all ego driven. Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty, I'm pretty staunchly in your camp there.

1:24:37 I don't, I don't think many people would like aspire to be a career cover band. No way. You know, like that's not going to satisfy them at the end of the day, that's. Not a soulful act. It may be when you're singing a certain note. I understand that for sure. But other than that bro, like what are you? What are you inspiring people to do? You're not being a leader you're there for. The party, Yeah. Yeah, and, and and so I shouldn't, my wife says don't let the vinegar out, but I'm a little let a little vinegar out. All these bars for in Wisconsin, they they play on that. So instead of hiring me for X amount of dollars to play for an hour of original music that people are going to come and be like, dude, that was you did a show and it was original and you and you really expressed yourself and you know, you're inspiring me. They pay cover bands maybe half as much as me, maybe close to my same price, and they charge no cover. They don't think that anyone should have to pay to get into because these guys aren't original. And so they think they try to use that formula on original acts.

1:25:43 And it's like there's not more than 5. And I'm not including Milwaukee because that's its own world. There's not more than 5 venues that are booking original bands like around around Wisconsin. And I think that's just a shitty model, dude. And so anyone who owns a bar, dude, I'm calling you out like book some original acts, charge your, if you got 10 regulars who are there everyday, let them in for free. But you can charge everybody else and you can do a show and like make a name for yourself as a bar that's bringing in something new and something different. And it goes back to we're not all about cheese curds, beer and brats.

1:26:28 Like let's bring some culture in, dude. And I'm not saying everybody like there's Q&Z there by Wausau. I'm sure there's a couple Green Bay venues, but most of the ones in Green Bay are they're like the big ones. They're like big. They're not like 200 people venues. And when they do bring people in, it's a cover band. Almost all the the Packer bars right around there, cover bands. It's like, come on bro, are we just not that cool to where we don't want to bring it to nothing? And I get it, everyone's all drunk and they want to sing their songs. It's like, well stop being drunk for 10 minutes and pay attention to some original art.

1:27:09 You don't got a book them all night dude. Just have them have one fill an hour and feed this ecosystem that is art of original music. You know, that's something we're not good at in Wisconsin, dude. We're not. Yeah, for sure. It's cover bands everywhere all the time. I mean, I used to, I used to play solo shows with acoustic guitar and do covers and like the same thing. Like it was, it's what you don't do music for. I did for the money, you know, right. They would pay me. I would go there. It was something I was doing in my living room anyway. So OK, set up a mic and give me a few 100 bucks for doing it. But there is, there's a lot to that, man. There's a, there's a lot to that because I think people like the actual audience.

1:27:57 I don't know why we aren't more as a population receptive to that. Like, why aren't, why aren't we like, I love, I love like connecting with local artists. There's a dude I'm going to have on in a couple, couple months here down in Appleton. He floored me. My buddy owns 335 here. He's a dude that has original music come in, small artists right throughout the country, but like, original tunes. And I heard this guy play after one of those. And it was one of those nights where I was just like, you are just sitting in at Appleton, WI, and nobody knows you exist and you write this shit. Yeah. I was like, you got to do it. Yeah. Like Go and I think he's got like 3000 Instagram followers. Because the Internet rules the world, right? So yes, it's like we all look and go see what? Oh my God, he's so amazing.

1:28:46 Oh, he only has 2000 followers. Well, right. What do you do? You know what I mean? Like, you can't do much with a guy like that. He's got to go crazy and do it. 150 pieces of content and put five up a day. And if you don't do that, no one's going to see you. You wouldn't have seen me if I didn't do that. And I think it's just right. It's a tough pill to swallow, but now you know the formula, go do it. It's kind of like one of those things, you know? Use it as a vehicle to that stuff that you want. Right. But back-to-back to people being a little bit lazy, right? That also does factor in, you know, and it's like, it's like, I don't want to do that. I want to make music all day.

1:29:29 Well, then you don't want to get paid. You don't want to get paid. But I, I, the reason I brought the show things, I've had like 6 show inquiries in the past like 3 months and none of them booked me. It's like as soon as I tell them and it's not my number is not astronomical, but they don't have speakers, they don't have lights, they don't have a stage. It's like, where are the venues, bro? We just don't have them. You go to you go to, I mean, I don't know, like you go to Utah, you go to like Arizona, you go to they got tons of venues, dude, Colorado, you know, and their and their people are different. So I wasn't going to bring this up, but I always say Wisconsin is born on haterade.

1:30:11 He's like a lot of Wisconsin is hate on each other to make themselves feel better about themselves for like through all through school. It was like that in general, man, they do. But in Colorado, you'll have people chasing you down like, is that your van outside, man? What do you do? You make music. I want to hear your music. So it is about the temperature of the area, and I'm not talking about the cold. And even though that may be fact, if the bars don't book original bands and the bar owners, now think about this. Let's break it down. You remember people who used to know a bar owner and be like, let's go to my buddy's bar. My buddy owns his bar. So the bar owner's the leader, so if he doesn't think it's cool to have original bands, why would anybody who goes to his bar think it's cool?

1:30:58 It's all goes back to leadership. Yeah, that's a really interesting that pops something into my head like searching for a because you're right. I you're definitely right about the local music, like original versus cover, like every bar ever. One of my one of my great friends does a really good job playing covers and it's fine. Whatever. It's a beautiful thing. I'm not taking away anyone's musicianship. Yeah, but it's it's not going to. That's not what moves people. And that's what I'm all about. I'm about moving people and doing something that matters. And there's this. I am I started. I started thinking about him singing because he's a really good singer and I lost my train of thought. That was a good song he sang that one day. He is a really good singer.

1:31:45 He's got a great voice. What were you talking about? We're talking about putting up reps as far as reels and everything and kind of just working through trying to think it was something after that, though. So you're right about the you're right about that. Oh, the the cause of the Wisconsinite thing. And I wonder if some of it doesn't come back to the drinking culture because, like, what's what's the purpose for people when they go out to the bar there? Yeah, Yak, get hammer drunk. Talk some more. Yep, they don't want to shut up and listen to anyone. Get in a fight. Exactly, exactly what I'm getting at. They don't. They don't go out to be moved. They go out to escape.

1:32:27 Yes, like the 9:00 to 5:00 you were talking about earlier. You put 4050 hours a weekend doing something you hate. They want to go out and escape. Yeah, they don't want to think about that. They don't have the mental capacity or the mental space to say this is something that could fill my bucket, right? And I think so it's up to people like me to do these over the top things to make it where it's like I will pull enough people together to show the value. I will pull enough people who don't drink to come to the venue to show you that this actually does work. And whether you book me or not, I can, I can book my damn self like I can book my own sound guy.

1:33:10 I can book a hall at at Days Inn and just book the convention hall. Like I've done all this. It's not that I can't do it. It's just that it'd be a lot cooler if I had 16 bars ready to book me for original music. And I can just run around real quick, make some bands, put it back into my music and make myself bigger because I know the formula. But this is what's this is what's happening. And I'm not trying to whatever, but these guys are coming through, taking their money and they're paying their fucking bills with it. So you ain't even doing anything amazing. You're not even changing the course of like your music career. You're just doing it for a check. It's a nine to five to them.

1:33:51 And so that makes it even worse, honestly. Yeah, it's ally's hard to get around that. You're dead on. So I think about through the lens of the podcast doing that. I'm super glad I started. I always one of my go to lines as I don't do this to eat, you know, like, yeah, if I'm pitching A sponsorship, like I carouser sponsors the podcast because I'm a I'm an advocate of not drinking alcohol and we really resonated with that. OK, I've had I've had people reach out to sponsor the podcast that I've said no to. Like I I don't do this for the money, right? And every single dime that like I'm not negative on it. Every dime that I make through it, I invest in different things. And I try to grow. Because the mission is what's important. Right.

1:34:33 Like the mission of connecting people or moving someone with your words or something. And I think that that just speaks that that's a double down on what you were saying earlier of like, yeah, like some of the, I mean the cover, the cover bands in Wisconsin, like when they get booked at these places, like they get paid good money. Yeah. And it's like, sure, that's good, but they're going to do that. They're going to go pay their bills with it, which again is fine, but it is just a it's an intersection of art versus entertainment. It is and and man, I, I've paid my bills with a bunch of my music money. I, I sound like just a hypocrite, but I'm trying to like just prove a point that like, it'd be cooler if you had a mission.

1:35:17 It'd be cooler if you were like, well, I do got this one single that in three months I'm going to take. I'm only, I'm only able to save $100 from each, you know what I mean? But then I'm going to go get studio time and I'm going to lay down this single and I'm going to, I'm going to make a good push for this single. Dude, I've seen, this is going to sound stupid too. I've seen Wisconsin artists that actually have a following of their own drop cover projects. And I'm like, you already have a following, like why? Why don't you do something original? Because their last original didn't do numbers. So they're scared to like come out with that next one. But I feel like that's all part of it, dude. It's been like that one didn't work. I won't do that again.

1:36:03 And, and now I'm going to do this and I feel like, I don't know, dude, I have hundreds of songs, but who am I to talk? I took down 15 albums when I like rebranded. So it's like making music to me. Making original music is super simple, but I also have a song that costed US $3500 to make because it's a rock song. And we had session players come in and we're in this bigger studio and blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah. I don't feel like the best art comes from that, so I don't really care for it. I'd like the best art comes from like spur of the moment, smack it out, it's done. You know, maybe rethink a couple lines after you play it 100 times. Like, oh, I got to change that part before I release it.

1:36:44 But other than that, dude, get it done. But with rock bands, it is a little harder. They got to have the drummer go in there and lay things. They got to have the guitarist lay thing and it cost more money, you know, So I understand that. I'm telling you, that was my thing. I'd fucking figure it out, dude. I wouldn't be waiting on nobody. Yeah, for sure, especially when you already have a following. Yeah, it's I had AI had a student who's developed into a friend. I actually had him on the podcast. He he did this awesome thing where like he was, he's working a regular job, but he's a he's a really good creator. He's one of the best writers I've ever seen. He's he's awesome. Like content writers, not even a songwriter, like content, like he's a copywriter and everything.

1:37:28 But he in the midst of that, he's got a ton of kids. He put together this full album, all original music, did it in town here at the Charlton Theatre. And this album release party got a bunch of vinyl printed off. And it was probably, you know, it's probably one of those things that's like kind of a, a break even thing for him. Like he saw some vinyl, got some of his money back, but he got what was inside of him out. Yeah. There, and I think both of those things can probably exist together, but just with the understanding that it's just two separate things. Like that is a whole different thing than going and playing some pour some sugar on me before a Packer game. Exactly.

1:38:11 It's just two different things. It is, dude. It is. And it's he's a testament that you can you can balance it and do it the right way. So shout out to that guy. Yeah, he's cool, dude. He's he's cool dude. It's it's, it's neat. It's it's regardless of what area it is, music or whatever, Like it's awesome to see just people do things that they think matter. That's what I think too. I think that's the most important thing, dude, because you can really like go in your head and create this humongous thing. And then it's like you actually can bring that shit to life. Like, you know, Yeah. And then like I noticed like for me, whenever I just go because I used to have this videographer I shoot with now he knows better now, but he used to be like, So what day are we shooting and what are we shooting? And I'd be like, I don't fucking know where I'll call you or, or be like, we're shooting Wednesday. What are we shooting?

1:39:02 I'm like, I don't know. We're just, we're going to figure it out. Because every time you show up with that camera and you show up with intention, God just lays it out for you. You're like, I would have never been able to pull this together. You know what I mean? It just, it always happens, dude. And it's it's literally just law. It's like if you say it's going to work, it's going to work. It's it's so it's so amazing, dude. It's the universe, man. It is it just layout. Put this here. Put this every you grab it and use it. Yeah, that brought up another one of your piece of content in my mind. You posted one in Lambo with like the Lambo DJ behind you saying the Lambo DJ just played my song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, what was it?

1:39:43 What's the story behind that? One, I was talking to him on Instagram for a long time and just been trying to get him to play the song. And then I bought tickets and I was at that game and yeah. And he just hooked it up. He. Hooked it up just. Licked it in nice. I love it. Hey, man. Oh man, this has been a great conversation dude. Yeah, we went a lot of places. We did yeah. That's the that's kind of my shtick. There's a lot to this crazy thing called life. And I think what I appreciated most, like I I love getting your your view on things. It it's always good to talk with someone that, like I said earlier, like frequencies are the same.

1:40:25 You think about things similarly. And I had that comfort today, man, So I appreciate you. Yeah, hey, thank you, man. I thought there was a couple of things there. I was like, man, I get to ask this dude some shit. I don't run into a lot of people that we had, you know, like just the walks and people just don't those little things are so like. So you experienced that too, you know, And that was nice, man. That was cool. Yeah, that's, and that's goes back to that thing earlier about like not a lot of people make the decision to do this. A lot of people think about it. But then when you do it, then you can talk about with someone you know, and then then it's real, then it's authentic, then it's good.

1:41:06 All right, man. Appreciate you. Thank you.