Tyrone Powell - Launching a Tech Start-Up, Basketball Career, and Mindfulness - Ep. #1

0:18 Let's start there. So what the like your car's here today, obviously. Well, that's a rental car, actually. Oh, so that's still not your car? Still not You still don't have your? Car After a month and a half, I still don't have my car. I was impressed. And the crazy part is that they're always. I called them about once or twice a week to hear the status and they're like, oh, the parts are being sent at the end of the week, oh, early next week. And they keep pushing it back. So at that point I'm like, I don't know when I'm going to get my car. I have this rental car right now. Hopefully I'll get it soon, but yeah. Given I'm 6/6, I can't really fit. And yeah, I'm like scrunched up a little bit, but it is what it is.

1:02 I was surprised to see it this morning. I was like, Tyrone's a big dude. Like you had the duck coming in the door. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I feel the same way in my car. Like my head touches the room and I'm like, I can just barely see over the room. So it's a struggle. But man, So what happened in the accident? So I was driving to my house and just somebody had was at the stop sign and then just went right in front of me. Didn't have time to see them because the car in front of me was turning right into their lane and it was a bigger like truck. So they couldn't see me behind and then they just pulled out.

1:45 And so they have time to slow down, hit them. And then that was a month and a half ago. Dang. It was right before I was going to, I was going to go to France. And it was, it was right before you were going to France. I actually pushed France back for another week because I had to take care of my car. It was actually three days before I was supposed to leave for France. And so I had to call the insurance, do all that stuff for my car. And so I had to push France back another week. But it's fine. Were you able to switch your flight and everything O? K Yeah, yeah, it was it was fine, I think. Because I have the flying's blue pass, so I have some type of insurance for it so I didn't have to pay any extra to push it back.

2:32 So yeah, how long it, how long it had been since you've been to France the last time? A year and a half last Christmas and then my parents came last year for my college graduation and then before. A lot this past Christmas, but the one before. So Christmas of 2021 before that. I haven't gone by in like 3-4 years prior to COVID. A year prior to COVID actually, because that's when I just had the idea for you next. And so I was like, I would love to come. But I just started this business and I really want to start developing it. And so she was like, oh, OK, I get it. And then later that year, COVID hits. So unfortunate, but yeah, so spot second time in the past five years, Yeah, Yeah.

3:29 And that was probably, I mean that was when you next was fresh before you had any capital and that was an idea. Yeah, that was an idea at first. It was cause it was called Knowledge Seeker. And so I didn't know that that was our first name. We started, we started it two of my well, not cofounder because we just started it for a school project originally. We started it for the school project and then. We didn't know what we were going to do at first. The original idea for you next at the time dollar figure, I don't know if a lot of people know this but we would connect students to retired professionals in the field just so they can ask question and be kind of this mentor to the students.

4:14 So we did that for a few months for just for the competition that the competition release and then I wanted to continue the business. So I. Flipped it to more recent professionals and so that's how it really all started. But first it was knowledge seeker, which sounds corny, not that I think about it like knowledge seeker, but at the at the time, we needed a name. And so, yeah, yeah, it's the the stakes are a little bit different for a school project versus trying to get someone to give you a bunch of money to make something of the like, like if they were at the table and they said knowledge seeker, they'd probably back. Yeah. Was the next one coming in here? Like this.

4:56 Fast though And then Unix just came because I don't know, I really wanted to find a name that had a double entendre. And so Unix for your next in your career and Unix for universities next. And so it's like for students their next path or high school student and their path at the university. And for the university students, their next path is to be employed and so. Yeah, that's really the, the reasoning behind creating you next. Yeah. And at that time, I remember we had a chance to talk about this quite a bit like you. You kind of diagnosed that need, right, Where you saw that students couldn't.

5:37 Like there was no good way to get a shadow. Like most students won't just send an e-mail or something like that and say, hey, can I come in? Although most people will answer and say yes, but that bridge between that you kind of noticed there wasn't one, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So. First, I noticed that. And that was crazy to me, but a lot of students didn't even know what a job shadowing was. So still, yeah, so I'm like, OK, how could they get connected if their only way that's being promoted by the universities is through internships and jobs? Why don't they? Why don't they just put more focus on job shadowing and know a lot of universities?

6:20 Didn't include those services in their career services and didn't help students. And I started having more conversation with students because I found that problem myself. And so I started off as a computer science major, like to create stuff from scratch, like to see my idea flourish. And that's something that's been with me since I can remember. And so I thought that really computer science was a path for me. And then. I tried getting help connecting to a short term opportunity. I didn't know if that would be just a one hour conversation or a job shadowing, but I wanted some type of connection in the computer science field because I didn't really know anyone. And I knew that the professional world was different than just the classes I was learning.

7:08 And so I It took me about seven months to land a shadowing opportunity in computer science. I did the shadowing and I realized that computer science wasn't for me because you have to sit in front of the desk just cranking code for hours on end. And I'm like, I need more interaction. I need to work on different projects, not just one project for two weeks straight, just cranking code. So I like the creative aspects of it. I love the computer aspects of it, but I understood that the lifestyle wasn't for me and so I looked for other. Shadowing opportunities in different fields and industry and more specially around business because that's was my next field of interest and I really started loving more marketing stuff, more entrepreneurship.

8:01 And so I knew that I wanted to go within this Ave. of just marketing and entrepreneurship in general, because me growing in France and that's something that I've learned between the two different cultures. Is that in France? Entrepreneurship is in, is in discussed, is in, thought, is in displayed on TV like for example, Shark Tank. I never knew what Shark Tank was until I moved to the US and that just teaches kids, adults, teenagers, whatever. It may be about entrepreneurship and in France that you don't have access to that. So I didn't really know entrepreneurship was possible. I thought it was just.

8:44 Completely separate field, that it was just something I just never thought of growing up. But going back to the original question, I'm kind of like rambling on. But then I realized that marketing and entrepreneurship was for me. And then I started asking other questions other students about have they gotten connected outside of internships and jobs? And a lot would come to me saying, oh, I've heard good things about your shadowing opportunity and. I started doing more research and everything was just very similar, just internship and jobs. And so that's when I found a true disconnect and really helping the students understand their major prior to committing to an internship or a job, really making sure that is the right one for them.

9:27 But furthermore, and something that a lot of students overlook, is. Making sure that the employer shares the same culture and that you're a good cultural fit, and that employers have different cultures and a lot of students don't think that way. They think that all because I'm working at a one job in this company, the same job in this other company would be the same, but it's really not. And so a lot of students don't really think about that. So shadowing really enables the students to understand different cultures, different job responsibilities. And then just really overall expense to student network, which at the end of the day the network is key and definitely when finding a job and so really helping student understand the meaning, the meaning behind shadowing opportunities and how that can help them in their career.

10:16 And so doing more research on that and finding that there isn't a lot of options, if any, for students out there and so that's when. Knowledge secret originally started but then transmitted into you next. Yeah, yeah. How how old were you when you moved to the US from France? I was 15 years old. Fifteen. Yeah, that's so it probably. I mean, outside of seeing Shark Tank for the first time, that's a huge cultural shift in general. Yeah. How was it? Explain it. Yeah, yeah. So my dad. Is from the Milwaukee area. He went to Marquette University, played basketball there, and then played professional basketball over in France.

11:02 And though so that's where he met my mom. And so I grew up spending the school year in France, in the summertime in the US. So I. Had a good understanding of the culture during the summer time, because then winter comes and then you get a lot of snow here, which I wasn't ready for. And then just the school in general here is completely different than in France. And then just the culture around learning is completely different. And so that was a big shift. But in terms of the language, I knew how to speak English since I can remember because I used to speak English with my dad and French with my mom, and so that really wasn't a change.

11:53 I had family here, so I had connections and then going to school you meet other people. So it was the connection thing really wasn't the issue, but I would want to say the educational piece and just how everyone just. Freely talked about money, which I wasn't used to it and I know it sounds it sounds abnormal, but in France and I know a lot of countries in Europe, they're really closed off about discussing financials. And when it comes to entrepreneurship or investing or different strategies around money. And so when I came to the US and I saw that there was classes teaching about money, there shows teaching about money, people talk about investing strategies all the time. And that's something that I was not used to in France. And so that kind of got me thinking about business and entrepreneurship early on because I didn't really know that was a possibility.

12:53 And I think that's something awesome, that's. Comes with this country. And so, yeah, that's something I really, really wasn't or having been acclaimed to yet. Yeah, that that shift at like a pivotal time too, is that has to be part of like why you can look at things the way you do, right? Because, you know, having that drastic change and seeing, you know, the the differences and maybe the lapses of what's better or worse in different things probably started you off at a young age to say, OK, here's how I can provide something else that's better than what's available. Yeah, yeah, most definitely. And I think in retrospect, same with France as well, because in France they do a lot better job at connecting students to their career already on, I mean elementary school even and so. Come into the US and seeing the lack of that, but then the US has more of something and France have the lack of something. He gave me, like you said, a good perspective on 2 on the two different cultures and how to really adapt, serve in different cultures based on what I see work in France, not work in the US, so on and so forth.

14:02 Yeah, it's like the value, the value of diverse thought in a nutshell, right? Exactly. Diverse thought is important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so yeah, the just growing up in the two different cultures. It was probably enabled me to have this entrepreneurship mind of seeing different markets, so in France and in the US and really adapting to that. Yeah. Do you remember a specific turning point when you were like, maybe I want to be a business owner? Like maybe that's for me. I had interest in it from a young age, but I didn't think it was possible. So it was like in the back of my mind, but it was never something I was like, I want to do that I just had interest in. Starting something.

14:45 It wasn't even particularly business, but just starting something. And what was the pivotal point? I feel like there was oh, OK, in high school I had a friend that did. And that's actually the good thing you you asked that question because that just reminded me. So I had a friend that. Started ecommerce before ecommerce was like really big on social media and media in general. So he was getting items from Wish or Alibaba or something like that and then reselling it in the US and making a profit.

15:32 And I thought that was really cool because I've never seen it before. The Internet wasn't talking about it at the time. And I thought that was really cool and I didn't know how he would do it because at the time I didn't know about which. And on the Express he was like, I just got my supplier and he has, he has cheaper items than in the US. So I get them. I do this type of marketing and just the structure of everything. And at the time I was a sophomore in high school, so 20/20/15. 2015 And so he was a sophomore in high school as well. And I just saw the structure that he had. He was making money. He had fun.

16:14 He was in the sector that he really liked. He was growing, he was learning and I was. I just thought about it and I was like, man, this guy is so cool. He established this structure. He is so motivated. He loves what he's doing and that just. I think that was the first really introduction that I had to not only business, but hearing somebody talk about their business, how they structured their business. And that's when I was like that's really cool. I kind of want to do something like that now. And so yeah, I think that's was the first introduction to business. We became friends, talked about business for a little bit.

16:56 And then I got I took a computer science class and I enjoyed it. So I wanted to go more down route. But first introduction of business. My friend from high school. Yeah, the people that got into that early made some bucks. Yeah, yeah. That's so that's fascinating. It lines up directly with when you started like seeing those conversations of entrepreneurial and stuff being a possibility. Yeah, yeah, that's great. So to switch a little bit, you said your dad played professional basketball. You played a lot of basketball, too. I mean, tell me about that. You were, you were great in high school. You started playing at UW GB. How long did you play there and kind of what what was your basketball story?

17:37 Yeah, So my dad grew up in Milwaukee, played high school basketball in Milwaukee. Really famous basketball player? He was one of the best in the state. Had multiple offers to play Division One chose Marquette. Played four years in Marquette University. He's in their Hall of Fame for anyone that watches that his There's Trevor Powell if you guys know him. But yeah, so basketball from a young age, too. Yeah, yeah. So he when moved to France and I remember him as a professional athlete, that's my earliest memories is him on the basketball court, just playing, traveling a lot of course during basketball season and then coming back and playing. So my earliest memories were of basketball and. Fun facts and I don't, I don't remember this, but my first steps were on the basketball court, actually chasing a basketball family, which I found out not too long ago. And so that's a fun fact.

18:46 But yeah, so just seeing my dad being this professional athlete on the basketball court, just spending a lot of hours and then. Him starting to teach me about basketball. It was in my jeans and so I just picked it up because I love the sport. And then played basketball. Started in a club at 4:00, but probably dribbled around the house earlier than that. And then in France. And then just really in love basketball in general, but I just love sports so. I always religiously played basketball, but on the side I played soccer. I did handball, which isn't a famous sport in the US, but it's a mix of soccer and basketball.

19:40 And then I did judo. I did a little bit of karate. I did volleyball. I played instruments and so I had passion in all these different sports and hobbies and such, but basketball was my main one. So I religiously played basketball over the years and tapped into other sports and then I moved. So I was born 45 minutes north of Paris and then I played basketball there, but I remember. I always played basketball because they didn't have youth leagues. I always played basketball 12, sometimes 3 levels up. And so I was always the smallest one there, even though I'm tall for my age.

20:29 But when you get moved up, you're you're the smallest one. So it enabled me to look at basketball in a different way and play in a different way, like I was shorter and smaller than everyone else. And so growing up playing basketball against older people, then when you get older it just changes your game and enables you to be a lot better. Well, how much of it is confidence? So much of sports is confidence. And like, was your, was your dad like behind that? Was he like, we're going to get Tyrone playing kids bigger than him? Was it like, was that his plan, you think? I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if it was.

21:09 I don't know if it was, but maybe it was. But yeah, so much of it is confident and that definitely builds your confidence up because you play against these people that are so much older than you at the time you think they are. And yeah, when you're, I mean when you're 911 year old is huge. Exactly right. That's an adult. That's so funny. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly how I thought, like, I was like, if I can play against them and do well against them, going against my age should be a walk in the park. And so that really enabled me to wire my mind. But talking about confidence, and that's another thing, is that in the US they have a different confidence and especially about sports because I mean trash talking in the US is just so common in France. You would never see that, like people do not trash talking. Like that competitive aspect is something that is really prevalent in the US but not too much in other countries. And so my dad like told me that mindset of being just ultra competitive in sport and that just always working harder. And so that really translated into sports and then business and everything in general.

22:30 But that's something that's really American because in France they don't really have that. They they have that competitive aspects around sports, but not to the extent of the US. Yeah, and I mean, you can see the difference in NBA players, so of players that aren't from the US and players that are like you can generally see. I mean nuanced differences in their game, but differences in the the mental aspect of the game and how they approach it and how they interact with not only the other team but their teammates and stuff. It's fascinating to see and just hearing the stories. I mean like on the effects about the Dream team, the Redeem team and all of that. You see those, they go at each other, they trash talk each other and they just go hard. And that's something that isn't coming in other countries. And you play basketball as well.

23:20 You were an athlete as well. So you definitely understand like how trash talking works and how that brings the best into athletes. And so yeah. There's that. There's that ultra famous story about Kobe when they played Pau Gasol. I'm pretty sure it was in the Olympics. And Kobe told the team, he's like, I'm going to run right through him the first play of the game. And then he did it. And I like now hearing this, I've never thought I'd been able to think about it through this late. Like, imagine what Powell Powell probably kind of knew because they were friends. But like, imagine what Powell's teammates thought of that. Like, you know what? The people had to be awestruck or something like that. And that's the the mentality of Kobe. You know?

24:06 And I mean Kobe kind of a similar story, right? I mean, Kobe grew up in France too. I think it was Italy. Italy, yeah. Yeah, his dad. So similar story to mine. So his dad is American, played professional basketball in Italy, so overseas. And yeah, he grew up there and then moved to the USI don't know. I think he moved in high school, but I'm not sure. Maybe it was earlier than that. So yeah, similar story. And then, yeah, that's a funny story of his team, which are we like? Are they good? Like, do they not like each other? Are we seeing one version of them? But yeah, that's funny. That's funny.

24:48 And see, after that they just became friends. That's just a mentality that a lot of countries outside of the US just aren't used to. And I mean, he's Kobe, so he's definitely different, a different breed, but yeah. Yeah, so did you, did you run any of any of those different nuances of the game being like I met you had to play some in Europe at some points and then here like the the actual like playing of the game outside of like the mental aspect, I mean, they play a little bit different too. Did you run into any of that? Did that affect any of your game here or vice versa? Yeah, definitely. It's different basketball games. So it took actually a lot of adjusting because in the US they like to dribble and ISO and it's a lot more individualistic in the US, While in France, if you take more than five dribbles, your coach will take you out.

25:49 You're like you got to pass that and you'll shoot it if you're open. So it's two different ball games. And then growing up, I didn't really understood it as a kid. And I played more so with the Americanized version of basketball, which is it's okay to sometimes take 5 dribble in place and then just pass the ball and such. And then growing up, that's when I really started understanding, OK, this is way different because when you're a team, when you're a kid, the team isn't really organized, it's just you play basketball. But then when I started, so OK, so I'll go back a little bit.

26:29 But then I moved to the South of France after 10 years around Paris, and then when I moved to the South of France, I started playing in teenager basketball. And that's when they start recruiting for professional camps. That's when they really start recruiting. So I was playing a lot more competitive and I started playing throughout France and that's when I realized, holy crap, I can't just take 3 dribbles between my leg, cross somebody and go to the rim. Everybody is good now. And so that's really when European basketball started kicking in. And then I would do the summers in the US where I would just pass and then all of a sudden somebody takes 5 triples, go to the whole makeup basket and our coach doesn't care. So I started really implementing both, I want to say a year or two before I moved to the US, where I really started understanding how my game could transition from France into the US because I started wanting to be a point guard. And so I needed to dribble a lot more. And so that really came in handy with practicing with the older kids and then going into the US and such. And so that's when my game really elevated and then I started.

27:51 I got invited to play for or got selected for the youth national team for France. And so that's when I really started getting looks from professional teams in France. And that's really when my basketball career started taking a turn for the better. And so then I decided to move to the US in high school, played basketball there and then. That was probably a hard decision, right? Because over there, that's a unique scenario where your dad played professionally. So that's probably a certain advantage at some points that people know your name, they know your dad. But at the same point, the opportunity was probably different here, right?

28:34 Yeah. Yeah. So, So yeah, it was a tough decision. I mean, that was. So I had a few options. I could go to the professional team in France, they have youth teams underneath the professional team. And so when you get older that increases your chances of playing professionally for that team. You play more basketball, is more structured. And so that was a big opportunity for me to continuously grow on my, at the time, NBA aspirations. And so I was strongly debating that. But then I wanted to move to the US as well because this is the basketball capital. My dad had a lot to teach me.

29:20 And so I was just really hesitant. And I love just the US culture and I know that eventually I wanted to move here. And so that decision was a tough one. I talked to a lot of people about a friend's family and decided to come to the US and other think about it. If I wouldn't have made that decision, I probably would have went to high school and College in France and so that would have just changed the course of my life and so, so yeah, so I decided to go to the US and that was, that was a big decision, one of the biggest one I've I've had to take yet. Yeah, so you know when you think of. Like towards the end of that, then when basketball starts maybe diminishing and entrepreneurship, business ownership starts climbing, that's another decision. Like how?

30:14 How did you approach that in life? Yeah, yeah. So then, yeah, I played two years of basketball at UW Green Bay. And halfway into my second year, So halfway into my sophomore year, the idea of you and I started to come into fruition. I want to say quite quite. Not yet, but I started to think about it and started to ask questions about it, talk to people about it. And so you next started to be more and more on my mind. And then basketball. I was just still playing basketball with the team, loved it. And then all of a sudden I had a conversation with the career services at GB and then an employer, and they really love the idea.

31:08 And they started to give me feedback on how that could work. And then that employer asked him for a reference and he gave me the name of five other employers. And that's when I started really having a structure playing around you next to see where. The door started to creak. Yeah, exactly. The door. Like I could see the light at the end of the door, so in the door. So I just started to find more and more interest in business and just building that entire infrastructure. And I don't know, for some reason I started spending more and more time with business than basketball. And then finals hits and I had basketball business and finals and so I was like okay.

32:00 I don't know how much longer I can take of all the mix of all three because even till this day I don't know how I did it. Like just mixing the three, which individually are all super time consuming. I had no life for solid two to three month and so I understood that in order for me to scale Unix, I would have to either drop school or basketball. I was not going to drop school. So I had really had to have a conversation with myself, not only but my family, friends and just get their perspective on basketball, on business.

32:42 And at that time I just I could see myself playing professional basketball less and less. I was like, I love basketball, but could I see it as one of my careers? I knew I wasn't going to make it to the NBA unless I spend another 10 hours every day playing basketball and therefore leave you next. And I didn't want to leave you next, which at the time, it was not a seeker. And so you had just a whole bunch of conversation, and I decided to pick you next and had the conversation with my coach. I explained you next. He loved it. And so, yeah, I decided to step away from basketball.

33:24 But I mean, after 18 years, 19 years of playing basketball at that time, it was a tough decision, but. Probably freeing in some way. Like a deep breath. Yeah. Wow. I mean, eventually. Initially, yes. Initially, yes. But then I want to say a year after stopping basketball, I like, started missing. And I think that was partially my fault because I went from being an athlete playing Do you want college basketball to not really playing any sports Rarity, because I was just so focused on schooling you next and so your win by And then I started to miss basketball a lot.

34:08 I started to miss the competition. Just the memories that you have on and off the court with your team, just the chemistry within the team, you could definitely transition that into business, but it's a little bit different than it with sports because you're active, you're playing sports as well. And so I missed that aspect. And so I understood that I needed to be more active sports wise. I can go from playing sports all the time to just doing business. And so I started reintegrating sports within by daily routines, and that's when it went a lot better and started to free myself again. But yeah, initially, just stopping basketball, it was like this freeing like OKI think I made the right decision.

34:52 My business is going well. I love what I'm doing right now. This is great. And then eventually it started picking up. So yeah, I, I cold Turkey really stopped playing a lot of sports. But that wasn't the right decision mentally. And so when I started picking that back up, it was it was a lot more freeing once again, yeah. Yeah, it's a It's really neat to think about the both, the overlaps of similarities, but at the same time the massive differences between like a commitment to and a dedication to being good at a sport or being an athlete and having a business or being in business. It doesn't have to even be yours.

35:32 I think longterm successes. Being an athlete transitions to success in the business world so well because athletes know how to set a goal and work towards a goal. And I mean it teaches us so much discipline, right? Like especially you said it, I think it gets overlooked the commitment that any D1 athlete takes to their of their time and out of their life. Like we don't see the work that gets put in by those athletes. And then you you think about how that dedication and that discipline? How that equates to success in the business world, it does for everybody, right? But at the same time, I think one of the main differences and something that I noticed outside of just like it being great for your mental health to be active and and you know, keep your body engaged so you can keep your mind engaged. Outside of that even I think one of the huge differences that I've diagnosed is that business successes take so long, they take so long.

36:34 And you have to. That discipline is working towards something. But in sports, like if you're practicing six days a week, seven days a week, basketball, even if you go run an open gym, you can cross the dude up and you're like, all right, my work's working and that's great for your brain. Like your confidence keeps you going. If that doesn't happen so much in business unless like. You know you get super lucky where you have a random conversation that you can spit out an elevator pitch quick and they're like, OK, here's my card. Other than that, it's like this slow burn towards success where athletes I that was one thing I missed. That was like immediately you can see your work come into play like it, you know, if I I love golf, if I chip and putt for an hour, I can go on the green and if I knock a few chips close, I'm like, all right.

37:23 That's why I'm here, right? Yeah, no, that's definitely true. Being a business owner isn't like that. Everything takes so long and you have to be so patient. And I think that's a big difference. Because I remember if I just the day before, if I just spend 5 hours just constantly shooting threes and then I just take the day off and then the next day at practice I would just make a lot more threes. Because the day prior I just shot 1000 threes. But in business, and that's something that I was not ready for, win starting new days, nobody is exactly like, no, everyone thinks of business is just going to go smoothly like that. If they have a plan, it is so far from the truth. And I didn't think that because in basketball it's like you do the right things.

38:12 You put in the hours and within a week you're gonna start to see significant results. And business is like, you put in the hours, you do the research, you grow this piece for a few months and then all of a sudden the market changes or there's a new competitor or there's something, there's always something moving in business. And you're like, now I need to readjust everything I just did or I need to think about this in a different way or you learn something new and that just changes everything. And so business is definitely a roller coaster. But like you said, half feet just do well in this area because of the discipline and the hard work because everyone I played against especially at the Division One level, the amount of hours that they put in, just working on basketball, just saying know that things just to make workouts, make games and all of that is just a lot of discipline hard work and saying and doing it even though you don't want to do it. And so that, that transition into business. And so that that is 1 aspects of sports. That really transition is the discipline and the hard work that it takes to become good at a sport and then just transitioning that into business. But additionally, there's another aspect that I want to touch on because I've seen it a lot of times is that's not necessarily true for everyone,

39:43 but I guess it is true for everyone. But it depends what they get themselves into. So if an athlete decides to start a business, but they don't necessarily like it or they enjoy playing their sports more than doing the business, they'll be like, you know what, maybe I can relax this week. And so they'll have a different mentality over their business or venture or anything that they do that's not sports related. And so it's really once. And that's the hard thing about athletes is really once you're not playing sports anymore, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? And so that's that's been a reoccurring topic and I actually talked to a lot of my old teammates regarding my business and how I transition from sports to business and they're like, I don't know what I want to do now, how did you come up to that?

40:35 And so they have this hunger that they had in sports where they want to work on something but they just don't know what. So it's really for athletes is understanding what do I love to do that's not sports related that I could possibly do as a career if I don't do sports. And that's the hardest part of it all. But once half these really figured that piece of themselves out, then they can put in the hours that they did with sports. But it's not necessarily a guarantee that an athlete would work as hard in their career as they did in their sports. So it wires your brain to do so, but then you have to do some self searching to see okay. I know I can put in the work in the hours, but what am I going to put it in? And what am I passionate about exactly? Yeah, that's a huge thing.

41:22 Thinking about that, all I can think about is the agility you mentioned there and how much a I is going to change what your business is doing or evolve what your business is doing what. What have you found with a I so far? I mean, A I is scary. I was not expecting A I to be this powerful and I thought it would come in segments. Well, I did think A I would be this power for you eventually, but not right away. And it took some exploring, it took some exploring it. Just understanding the different types of a I that are out there is just a research on its own.

42:04 But then the possibilities that you can do with a I is really looking at it from a different perspective because there's so many different things that a I can do right now that nobody has ever thought of. And it's just who's going to be the first one to understand that a I works this certain way. So it's just spending a lot of time with a I just teaching it, but also enabling you to enabled in it to teach you some things. And so just understanding how it works, how you can code around it, implemented in different software, is just a long journey of just learning a new skill. It's just like learning a new sport, learning something new. And that's something I've always been passionate about. And if I find something interesting, I'll Start learning about it and I'll find it a lot more interesting. And that could be a flaw or benefit of mine to find so many different things interesting.

43:01 But yeah, A I has definitely enabled us to do business a lot easier, get more done, but also just looking at different industries in a new way. And so A I is going to be a long process to implement in different industries and there's small steps to doing it, but recognizing Okay, how can that affect the recruiting industry which we were in or how can college student take advantage of that this fees and so really understanding how we can change markets. But yeah, it's been it's been a lot of fun so far. Yeah, Do you, do you have like a process for something like that?

43:43 Like as you know, you carry this weight of, you know, founder, right. Like this is your thing. You next is your you know, it's your baby that's developing into hopefully everything you want it to be and more. What's your process for like, you know, recognizing the need for a change And then? Going through the steps to one, determine if you need it or two. Once you do implementing that change, like how do you work through those types of things, Yeah, so the first aspects is like you said, do I need it or do I want it? And being a startup, being so small, you really have to be careful what you do with your resources because that could put you month behind or month forward. And so do I need it or do I want it? And then if I need it, then I know this may be weird, but I asked myself again, do I really need it though? And so that enables me to do a lot more research on it and to find out if I can implement it in our capacity. So in terms of cold budget time, I'm sorry. Sorry, that's okay.

45:02 Everything So much is budget at that point. So much, almost all of it. I mean just budget and time in general. And so yeah, just doing the proper research but also having a lot of conversations about it. And so I which goes with hand in hand with research, but before I implement something, I'll talk to 50 different peoples about it and then just get their point of view. And then I'll look if it fits into the market. I'll look at if anyone else is doing it and how they're doing it and would happen when they implemented it, when they didn't implement it. And so there is this entire process that I look for, but the main one is, does it align with our mission and values? Does this align with Unix?

45:56 And 1st you have to establish what Unix is and that really enables, that really enables a business owner to just look outside of their business. And So what I mean by that is business owners should always fall in love with the problem, not the solution. And so a lot of business owners, they find the problem and then they find their solution and they're just so focused on their solution that they don't look at different ways to solve their problem that may not be their solution but that could get there faster or more convenient. And so a lot of business owners just get so focused on the way that I'm doing it is the best way and there's no other way.

46:40 And so if you fall in love with the problem and that your solution, you'll constantly look for new ways to make your business better. And when with maybe not when you have an established business that you proved yourself, then you know that your solution is is a powerhouse in the industry. And so you can kind of just add to that. But when you're a startup and when you're constantly analyzing the market and trying to penetrate it in different ways, you have to fall in love with the problem. And understanding different tools can just, even if you're not going to implement it, can enable you to maybe a year down the line find a new way of doing something, even if you're not going to implement it. Now if you have a good understanding of a I, which I think all startups should have, especially in the tech world, even if you're not going to implement it now, maybe a year or two down the line, you're going to remember something and that's going to enable you to pivot. So yeah, there's a lot of research I do. I could talk about this all day, obviously, but yeah, falling in love with the problem, not the solution, really enables you to look at your business in a completely different way. That's such a great way to look at it because when you stop solving problems, you stop making progress. Like then then you know that there's an adage. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but it's either it boils down to you're either making progress or going forward or moving backwards.

48:08 Like there's no like staying stag and if you're not solving the next problem. Those problems are eventually going to eat you more and more and more. That's such a fantastic way to look at it. I've never, I've never heard it put that way, but that's great, man. Is that something you came up with? Did you get that from a mentor? I did. I did. I get that from the Blueprint program here in town. Is for small startups in Green Bay. Just to have an accelerator. Talk to mentors and such. And he, what was his name? I think a Rashad was his name and he was like, when you have a startup, you need to fall in love with the problem, not the solution.

48:50 And all of a sudden I'll pause. I was like, wait a second, what did you just say? Because I never looked at it that way. And when he said that, I just, I did a entire break on Unix and I was like, OK, what pieces can I add? Like what is our problem? And now that's once we establish our mission, our vision, then the problem really falls into those line and the problem statement of course. And then once we add something, we're like, does that fit into our problem? Does that fit into into what we're trying to solve? And there's so many different ways of thinking outside of the box that it may not look like your initial initial idea, but it will solve the same problem. And yeah, that's that's been a game changer. Absolutely.

49:40 Those Nuggets always come from mentors like that. And I think a lot of people, even those that are extremely successful in business or whatever work they do, I think overlook the importance of mentors or someone that's done the same thing you're trying to do. I'll be it, it could be in a completely different capacity or something, but a lot of times similar to our conversation about sports to business success. Overlaps. It happens for a reason. And when you can find somebody that has success and then if you get the opportunity to ask them questions about digging for the reason about what drove that success, you can often find it.

50:21 And I guarantee that's one of those one of that guys that's one of his probably staples of however he got to wherever he's now. I mean I haven't talked to a single successful startup which a startup that still running and growing that hasn't had at least one mentor like a mentor is so important in growth. And I don't, I would not be where I am today and not have the lessons and just the opportunities that I had today if it wasn't for a great mentor or different mentors or just different people just giving me insight. And that's the thing about business. You have to always be learning.

51:04 You never know everything ever. And so you just have to constantly ask questions even if they're hard, even if they to you may sound stupid, but they probably are great questions. And so getting outside of that habit of being too afraid to ask certain questions or thinking you know it already so you don't want to talk about it. So just making sure the constantly being a sponge and learning and so that's that's what every business owner should do is just surround themselves with people that have done it, that are doing it and just bounce ideas and that really enables you to have different aspects of business that then makes it a lot easier to pivot or to look at it in a way and just learning just about learning. Absolutely.

51:58 Yeah. You know, another interesting thing about startups in general I wanted to ask you about today. It's something that I've never encountered in the pursuits that I've done. What's it like trying to get investors? What is that process like? Like, I think I'm trying to remember you used a phrase one time when we were chatting, it was like you had an Angel investor or something like that. And I've, I've wondered what that was since. And I've never, like, I've never went down that path. My entrepreneurial pursuits have been more of the grassroots, ground up my own capital, and then I try to build something out of that.

52:39 And what you've done in like the the startup atmosphere and what a lot of tech almost has to do in a lot of aspects to compete is to start bigger. You have this idea, but in order to start big, you have to get capital. What is it like trying to get investors and what does that process even look like? Yeah. So, so I don't have any Angel or VC investors within the organization. I had many conversation and that's around that we're going to open up later this year. But I have individual investors. But that process man, I mean it's it's something that I didn't understand for the longest and I started having conversation with investors and they just threw all these terms at me.

53:31 Convertible knows the cab table, safe notes, I'm just different aspects of getting an investment. And so I was like I have no idea what any of this is. And so I just started educating myself on just overall Angel and V C's investors. And so it's a very long process and a lot of time. And what I didn't know is if an investor says no right away, then you continuously grow and send them updates. A couple months later, they'll be like, OK, now I'm ready to give you an investment.

54:12 And that's not something that it's. Like trying to get a date with a girl you like. Like, no. OK, let me try to. No. OK. So yeah, I mean, I didn't even think about business that way. That's the funny part. It's like, that's funny that you put that up. It's like it's just wired like it just wired me different. Because usually I saw no as no. Like once somebody says no, that means they're not interested. Why continuously bother them? And so that was really a change. I was like, OK, you said no now, but next week I'll send you this and now and then the week after, I'll send you this.

54:54 And now and then we're doing this report. So I'll send you this out and then OK, maybe we can have another conversation next month about it. And so it was just not giving up, which enabled us to really have a lot of investor interest, investor just relationships. And in order to have an investment, I mean over the years, we've spoken to at least 30 to 50 different investors groups. And so you have to just constantly talk to investors and not only that, but it's how you talk to them, how you present to them. So when we went up to investors and said we want an investment to do this, this, this and this, they always had reasons.

55:42 They're always in their minds saying why would I not invest in this startup? And when when you come up to them, as I need an investment to do this, this, this and this, they're part of their brain is like is wired to say okay, they want an investment. But now I'm going to look at every aspects of their business to see why I shouldn't give them an investment. They're looking for like holes in the dam, right? Yeah, exactly, exactly. And they're like a lot more lenient on those. And then we change our perspective on how we were talking to investors and we were like, we're doing this now and then this is how it's growing. I would love to get your feedback on what we're doing. And so now the conversation become still helping us grow and seeing how we could fit into different markets. So you're really changing how you're approaching investors about it.

56:31 And now when we started doing that, we had investors saying okay, now let's meet against. They started getting a lot more interested in giving us an investment and they're like, let me connect you to this person and then you close this agreement and then I'll start aligning more investors for you guys to get your next round. And so it's not more so of evaluating and saying yes or no, but approaching investors as mentors And then that enabled us to get a lot more interest in our ventures. And when we will open around probably later in 2023 or early 2024, we'll have a lot more contact from investors, not more investor conversations.

57:18 And then overall they'll be a lot more in tune where where we've been and where we are now. And they would have seen that growth and work with us through that growth that it makes it a lot easier for them to give us an investment. So yeah, that's definitely been the approach of changing how you approach investors, but really how you just see contacts in general, relationships in general with investors is just just forget about the investment help me as a business and then if you guys are interested of investing in the way then we can talk about that so. Yeah. How do all those transitions happen Once you have investors that has to be interesting like because you know at at the at the on the one hand it has to grow and develop and evolve into what it's going to be. That's how it's going to succeed. But at the same time, if you have a couple different investors who might see things a different way, it has to be interesting having those continual conversations about, OK, here's how we need to pivot and why, and then it's a whole another round of the kind of the first thing again, right? Then I'm trying to poke holes in the pivot. Yeah, no, it's that's exactly what it is. And that's that's the great part is that there is a lot of investors out there and that's another thing that differs from Francis, I don't know 1VC or Angel investor in France and in the US there's so much and it's just having all these conversation which is very time consuming and a lot of things you do in a startups is super

58:51 time consuming. So just talking to all these investors, it's a lot more time especially if you pivot is longer conversations. But if there's an investor that really does what you're doing, could see aligns with your vision and everything and how you're doing it, they'll they're a good fit. But if you talk to another investor and just say, ah, you shouldn't be doing this, no, that's not it. That doesn't mean they're right. Just because they're an investor, they have the money, that doesn't mean they're the ruler and the knower of everything. And so and so it's just finding the right investor that believes in your idea and could see it go through. And so just just being honest with investors having as many conversation as possible is just enabling you to understand your pivot a lot more because they will have intake and input into the way you pivot.

59:44 But managing that, yes, I haven't gone through the process of the agreements for investors and just having to redo that count table based on a new wave of investors, but that's something that I'll have to deal with soon. So I can't have onto all these aspects until I already experienced it. But right now I'm doing research, so maybe we could talk again in a couple of years and then see where we are at with everything. Absolutely, Yeah. So I've always wondered about that. I've always wondered about that aspect. Like you mentioned Shark Tank earlier. I'm sure that's the tip of the iceberg. I know they like, they must have conversations with producers and stuff beforehand about here's what you might be asked, here's what you should be able to provide because, I mean, some of those are seasoned businesses, but some of them are people that are building something in their garage or something like that. That, I mean, so many people have entered in that arena the same way you did and it's just the willingness to grow and and learn and solve the problems that you're going to encounter. So you know, I've, I've always wondered what that process looked like because you would think, you know, hearing you talk about those investors, the successful ones are probably problem solvers in their own right, they're supporters instead of directors because I mean that's I I like, I like leadership a lot and I like talking about and you know looking at leadership through different lenses and I mean that's what effective leaders do, they support their people into success as opposed to direct them into success. Investors got to be the same

1:01:17 way, like if someone comes in too rigid, you know they should start the business and then run it how they want, right? And I would, I would think anyway. I mean there's all types of investors, I mean all types of leadership styles investors. And so yeah, it's super important for a startup to find the right one because I mean investors and they they want to make money out of their ventures and a lot of startups sign deals that once they exit they. Get a fraction of the money they actually thought they were getting or the VC or any investors just take control of the company and then therefore change management.

1:01:59 So founders have to be very careful of which which investor they decide to partner with because usually that's that takes up the lifetime of the business. And so it's like, yes, they're giving you capital in terms of money, but. Are they really helping you in any other way? And if they're not, is their money worth what is to come after? And so that's what a lot of startups think is OKI need to find an investor, they'll give me the money and then we'll be able to grow. But if an investor is willing to give you the money but want to change parts of your business, parts of the leadership teams, or whatever it may be, are they a good fit? And can you?

1:02:43 Just take the hit right now and go to another investor. And so that's something that startup founders have to be really careful about, because there's really all types of VCs that's interesting. In starting the podcast, I had some conversations to see if anybody may want to sponsor from the beginning. And one of the one of the people that I was talking to asked how much creative control they would have. And my my answer was very blunt. It was 0 like you, you wouldn't have any creative control. Like I have a vision for what it's going to be and I think it can be successful. And ultimately like they understood that that's that didn't come into negotiations or anything like that. But the question in itself was interesting to me because it mirrors kind of what you're saying about how hands on or off somebody can be.

1:03:33 That same thing happens I think, a lot in the music industry where and we've seen a transition of people making music under labels in different ways. There was a really cool thing. I saw a guy musician named Jelly Roll talking about this, where he would only sign a deal that he maintained full creative control of his music. And there's the total flip side of that that we've seen where someone just gets like created canned music that's made for the radio and then both can make a bunch of money. But as the musician, it's like being the business owner.

1:04:15 It's what is your what's not only what's your product, but what's your intention for this product. Because being successful is one thing. Monetarily being successful with a mission based platform of something that you're passionate about like you are connecting people to careers is a whole another thing that could get lost in the shuffle of someone that says I know how to make money and I know how to make money now. Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think that's. That's very interesting because it's really it enables someone to understand their personal brand in themselves, not only in the music industry but in business, sports, whatever it may be, is what am I looking to do with this venture and if someone comes along and has something? That you value, Of course they want something else from me, whether it be equity, salary and other connections or if they're just a mentor and just looking to do good, that's well. But if they want to be a sponsor or anything, they're going to want something else.

1:05:18 And so it's really understanding are they a good fit for me or not? And that comes with a personal brand, which I love. To discuss an overview, but it's just really understanding what is your personal brand and I think you touched on a great Are you looking to make can music that a lot of variety of people want to will probably like? Or do you want to do more personal music that your audience that really represent what you love to do? And so it's just understanding who you want to be in the type of artists, athletes, business, owner, whatever it may be. That you want to be What's the mission statement of you next?

1:05:59 To enable students to grow within their careers and graduate with a career that they love. OK, yeah, yeah. Something that's so needed. I know, I know. You know my my one of my previous role as a career advisor. Just like having those conversations, the the need for that is, is I don't want to say dire because it's not like, you know, it's not life or death, but it in some ways it is because like that happiness translates in different ways. And we're not. I don't think humans are innately ingrained with the capability to make that decision without some help and guidance, whether it's conversations with your family. That's one thing I've taken from our conversation so far today is that you lean on the people around you and not everyone does that.

1:06:51 But it's so helpful at different times and I'm, I'm definitely guilty of it where I've throughout my life made decisions in my own little silo. You know, like I, I I go into like my think tank and and I don't take in enough outside perspective from the people around me. And that's a huge part in making that transition from, you know, student, child, adolescent, to adult career post education. Not only what you think and feel, does it align with what everyone else sees and is your personal brand what you think it is like? That's a.

1:07:33 Hard question. It's always hard. It it'll be a hard all the time. So anything that can make that come to life like I, I I don't know that we've ever talked about the actual mission statement of you next. But I I assumed as much it would be something like that. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's definitely hard. And don't get me wrong, I also like to spend a lot of time within myself just thinking about aspects by myself, but in order for me to make a. Very important life changing decisions. I have to consult my family and my friends is it's just, yeah, they know you the best.

1:08:15 Of course you. I'm hoping people really spend time to understanding themselves, but they are the second people that knows you the best. And so just getting their input is just crucial. Even if you don't agree with it, just hearing their reasoning and why they think that may help you look at it through a new lens. And so that's something that I've gotten better over the years at. But yeah, it's it's hard. It's hard, but understanding your your personal brand is. Even harder. I feel like it's harder. Yeah, it's harder to like. It's so hard when you have the discipline of working towards something that we talked to earlier. It's hard to have that and then remember to take time and stop and look at other perspectives because like you get so caught up in in the work that you're doing progressing towards something.

1:09:08 But it's like here's what I do, I do, I do, I do. And then it's not like how is what I do being perceived is it what I should be doing. And taking in those other not only opinions but other perceptions of what's happening is so valuable and you know, hearing looking inward and stuff. Another thing I wanted to talk with you about was meditation and how that goes into your Wellness. And and like that's kind of the opposite side, right? The the opposite side of taking everything in meditation and mindfulness is about, you know, taking time to be with yourself and and look with yourself.

1:09:50 How does that come into your daytoday life? I know it's something that you're passionate about and do. Yeah, without meditation, I don't think I could do what I do. To be honest, meditation really enables me to. Relax my mind and often times when I have a lot of things going on throughout the day, I have several different meetings about different topics and then I have all this information being fed to my brain. Then I'll take a 30 minute break and my mind would not stop like, my mind would be like. Oh, you need to do this, this, this and this. Or you just got this idea.

1:10:30 Oh, you got to send this e-mail. Oh, you have to respond. Oh, you have to do this. And so it's constantly going and it's so overwhelming and if you had it or other watch viewers have it, but is this overwhelming aspects in your brain that just doesn't allow you to rest. And so I just understood that. In order for you to make the best decision, you have to have a clear mind. And if your brain can rest, can you make great decisions? And so meditation really enabled me to do that. If I feel stressed, if I feel overwhelmed, if I feel like I'm not going the right direction, or even if I feel like I am going the right direction, I just take some time.

1:11:19 Breathe 5 to 10 minutes. Just that, and then just going back to my day. And so meditation can come in multiple ways. You can just sit, just meditate. But meditation can just be just staring at a tree, staring at the sky, and just shutting down your brain, or just slowly thinking about just one single aspect and just kind of letting it go and what meditation did. And I know this may, like, not sound good for business, but it enabled me to not take things too seriously. And so I love business.

1:12:03 And that's something I I'm not like. I love business. I love everything that I do. But I know that. It isn't me like I could do something else, I could do whatever, but it doesn't define me. I'm the only person that defines myself. And so just being able to disconnect yourself from basketball, from your profession, from your relationship, being able to see yourself as your own entity, enabled me to reduce my anxiety a lot. Because. 1st starting Unix. I had so much anxiety and when I was able to differentiate myself from my business, from being a student, from being all those different aspects of my life, it just enabled me to be a lot more clear minded but also just to reduce my anxiety.

1:12:59 And I want to say I dirty have anxiety nowadays. But when first starting Unix, it was something that was so bad because I was so out of my comfort zone and I didn't know how to get back into my comfort zone. And so that's something that just meditation really enabled me to refocus on. Yeah. It's so hearing your journey with that, it's it's just rings loudly. The I started meditating probably about three years ago now, and the not taking things so seriously is one of the main reasons that I do it.

1:13:41 And I've enjoyed it and I've kept doing it because there So my whole life, up until a certain point a few years ago, I was very good. I probably leaned on compartmentalizing a little bit, but I was really good at not taking things too seriously. And then I became a dad and like it completely changed how I like view everything I do in life like I was. I was you know really good at being laissez faire in my in my normal life. Like, you know, I didn't take anything overwhelmingly seriously. I worked really hard. I had good discipline, but I I constantly was really good at not taking things too seriously and that it was great for my mental health. Like I was in a fantastic place, you know, my whole life, because I was like, whatever, if it doesn't work out, I'll do something else.

1:14:33 Then I I became a dad and like, I don't know, there's this. I felt, I always felt this like creeping pressure on me of not only providing but like living up to the expectations of myself. And then it I put weight, I started putting a ton of pressure on decisions that weren't, you know, earth shattering, like I was putting too much pressure on these decisions. And then I I would get to this point where the, the brain overload that you were talking about early were like there's 9000 things in my brain and how how am I supposed to focus on solving any of those problems if they're all there?

1:15:20 So that's why I started meditating. Seriously, I I had delved into it a little bit prior to that. But then I diagnosed that need of like, I can't, I can't function effectively because I noticed my coinciding with that, the outcomes of what I was doing weren't as favorable as they were prior to starting to feel those ways. And that's in a lot of different ways. That's not just career, that's friend and family. That's the people who I interact with, strangers who I interact with. All of that stuff was being affected and is still being affected by the shift in that mentality. And it wasn't something that I was completely ready for, to tell you the truth.

1:16:11 It was because that's such a stark difference to what I was used to in my life, of how I would make decisions and how I would just operate on a daytoday basis. And it's funny because like a lot of my successes, I attribute to that laissez faire attitude, which is really weird to think about. We talk about discipline and the importance of all these things, but like I I firmly believe a lot of my successes have come from not taking it too seriously. And I'm consistently trying to find different ways to do that again and still and meditation is one of the one of the ways that's allow me to do that.

1:16:51 Yeah. And so how has that transmitted? And so at what point in time did you realize, oh, I don't have that last affair attitude towards everything? And what really made you realize that you wanted to make that feel like was there a trigger in point. There's not a specific one that I can think about if if I think about kind of the the root of what made me made that decision is, is probably the my interactions with people close around me they they shifted and and recognizing that kind of, you know, it it made me uneasy a little bit because I didn't like, I know that's not my true authentic self coming out but it's the burden of those thoughts coming out.

1:17:46 And I was lucky enough to not have those come out so much throughout life because people get that for a host of different reasons. People feel pressure for so many different reasons. And mine just happened to wait until it was responsible for another human. You know, like that's when mine started to come out. But they come out at all different times and and in different ways and mine would have been seeing, trying to see my interactions with people close to me through their eyes and constantly. I'm I'm still trying to do that because I'm still working at it. My mind isn't in the place that it wasn't. It probably never will be.

1:18:28 We developed into a different thing, but working towards it is really important to me to try to nurture that skill because it's something I I've not only value about my prior self, or if you want to call it a prior self, my my historical self, but I think it's important to the success of those relationships and the outcomes just in general of life. I think it's important for me to be able to look at it through a way that I used to. Yeah, so it sounds like, and I believe in that too. But I like to have the balance of lesser fair, but also a balance of discipline because I feel like if I'm too much in the lesser fair or just just whatever. Wait, how should I face this?

1:19:23 What's another synonym for lesser fair? Whatever works like you know, like you know, nonchalant about whatever. Whatever happens, happens. Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, so in the lesser fair attitude, if I'm always in that attitude and that's something that I guess sports taught me, is to rewire the current mood that you're in. And so in sports, and athletes definitely can relate before a game if you have your music on your. Focus. You're ready. You're changing your internal. I like to call it vibration but internal mood and so you're getting ready for the game and so you're you have this different aspects of just how you just interact with people around you before a game or just look at life.

1:20:14 And so it goes further more, and I learned that about a year ago is you can really change your attitude towards. What are you trying to be productive? And so I'll come up with a different head space, mood and attitude if I start planning for a marketing strategy. And then once we start looking at the development of the website, I'll just completely change how I view things and the mood that I have and start doing that. If we start, if I or if we start talking about making different lists or algorithms within a platform, I just change my vibrations on that. And then if I go in a sales call or whatever it may be, I just continuously change how I feel, how I think. And so really being able to change that is the balance which then come with I know it sounds like pretty indepth but with the lesser ferry.

1:21:14 So when you're when you're not so long about everything, you can look at it but from the perspective that's higher up and be more critical about it. And then once you understand that you can kind of sector your energy into these different compartment. And when you started talking to me and you said you could you, when you talk to your family, you were able to get these different perspective. And that kind of reminded me of just when you have this list of her attitude that you can like look at it from high up and come about it with these different angles of energy and mood and focus in general. And that's really a benefit of just having that mentality is looking at it at a more controlled and organized point of view.

1:22:02 And when you said that, that just reminded me of this, but yeah. Yeah, the balance between those two things is a constant game, you know? I I like to look at it as like you know set your vision work to that with all the discipline you can but be comfortable and know that it's probably not going to work out just like that and that's okay you know and and there's this a cool this is widely talked about is like the find a gift mentality like you know if it's probably not going to work out how you exactly picture it. Good, bad or indifferent, What's the gift from that? You know like what what happens, what happens to you you know like look at your your accident for example and not having a car for two months.

1:22:53 You know that's it's it's a one on the the spectrum of man you don't want that to happen but what's the gift in that There's probably something that you could dig out that's a positive from that and. I think that kind of third piece to those two things is important because it allows you to take some of that pressure or some of that like because when when you it's hard because when you set those sights and you become disciplined in that. You feel like you're gradually earning something and then if it shifts or change, you're like, oh, it's really easy to say all that work was for nothing or something, but what's the gift from that?

1:23:41 Maybe you learned something that you didn't know before that you're going to use in a different way in three years that you would have never known if you didn't. There's always a gift. And integrating that third piece into those two things I think is important to the balance because that is hard. The, the. The. Differentiating and kind of flip flopping seemingly between discipline and structure and then at the same time like what it is, what it is. No, that's you put it perfectly. And I mean, just looking for that gift is it's it's something that you must have as an entrepreneur, but even as a professional and everything, because nothing is guaranteed in business.

1:24:25 And if you think you're spending five years of your life building a startup that all of a sudden doesn't work out, you didn't just lose five years of your life. You had so many experiences, lessons that you can change your life maybe in another five years, you never know. And just looking at it from that aspect. So I completely agree. And those 3 components, I'll start looking at all them side by side. I like that. I like that. It's the mental part of life in general is so important and that's why I was excited to talk with you about meditation, because it like even people that meditate. I've met so many people or know so many people that like I didn't know, like, meditated or practiced mindfulness.

1:25:11 Until. Because it's not something that comes up in conversation regularly, right? Like, we've known each other for quite a while and just our last conversation I found out that you that you meditated. It's. I don't know, it's helped me a lot. Yeah, no, I 100% agree. And I I think that I would be way too overwhelmed without meditation. I would have a lot of anxiety and it just enabled me to recenter myself. And for me is crucial. And I think that every entrepreneurs or in any professional should have something that relaxes them, refocus them. And for me just doing that quickly is through meditation.

1:25:51 And I think that is the perfect balance for just what I'm doing because it's so much pressure and so much time and having something to really reroute your brand is very crucial for me. And yeah, I have no idea you meditated as well. So that's super interesting, but yeah. Did you meditate as an athlete? Oh yeah, you did. So I started meditation when I was 1617 because I understood the benefits that he had in like rerouting the mind. Because sometime I just felt like my mind was elsewhere and I needed to really just being able to refocus my energy or my mind into different aspects. And so I did it a lot again, like 1617 area. Then when I got to like 1920, I did a break. I probably.

1:26:53 I used to do it every day before that and then took a break and probably did it once or twice a week. And then I went a couple months without doing it and I just immediately saw the difference. It was night and day, My mind was completely elsewhere. My anxiety was back. And so I really, really understood that meditation was crucial. And then I picked it back up. And when I did, I mean, it was night and day again and it's just, it just enabled me to recenter myself and just look at it from an other perspective. Yeah, what do you do now?

1:27:35 You said you reintegrated athletics back into your life. What do you do to stay active now? I run a lot. I I grew up hating running for some reason. Yeah, me too. Still do. I mean, it's is is nicer now. I mean, I used to just hate running just to run. Now I'm like, I'm OK with it. So if I don't do anything, I run. Then I'll lift. I'll play basketball sometimes. I'll do Muay Thai when I have time. I don't know the difference between all those things. What's Muay Thai? Muay Thai is kind of like kickboxing. OK? And then and then what else do I do? I try to play tennis.

1:28:24 I don't. There's not a lot of people that play tennis. But I did tell somebody play tennis, so I'm always down to play tennis. But yeah, the two things I do the most is probably running and lifting at that at this time when I can basketball. But yeah. I haven't been able to transition to being a runner. I've always hated running. Still do Really. Yeah, go play basketball for two hours. But I just can't go for a run. I don't have it in me why is there is just the single motion I'm just constantly running. Yeah, I think it's funny. All that's flashing through my mind right now is there's a show on HBO called He's Bound and Down and Kenny. Kenny Powers is talking to a person and I think he says he's being, he was in track or whatever.

1:29:07 And Kenny Powers says, you know, I'm good at. Sports. I'm not trying to be the best at practicing. And I like that's what I look at running as. Like I I just it's so monotonous and I bet it's freeing when you can get to it. But I I can't. So now I haven't made that transition. I'm jealous of people I can look because it's so quick. Like I found out recently, a couple months ago, like I sprained my ankle so I haven't been able to play basketball. So I've been looking for those different outlets and trying to find what they were and it's it's been a lot of like yoga and. In one place type exercises for me that have helped. I've got I can do more pushups right now than I've ever been able to in my life. Just solely because of that man.

1:29:49 Because I because of yoga. No because of spraining my ankle. I I haven't been able to like do anything to you know get those brain circuits firing and and release that tension in any way. So I started just doing like pushups on top of the yoga that I would do and. That's been my outlook, but I'm jealous of that, of folks like it, cuz you can get a run in like 20 minutes and have a pretty good workout fitting inside a busy life. That's that's good. I basketball can't do that. You know, I'll probably start playing again soon, but that's a. Two hour endeavor. Like when you said, when I can play basketball, it's like, do I have a chunk of time and does it align with when other people are exactly. I mean, that's probably the only reason why I picked up running, because I used to.

1:30:36 It was my least favorite part about basketball was the running part, and so I just did. It just grew up not liking running. But for some reason, I only like running when it's early in the morning. For some reason. I don't know why I don't like running at night. I don't like running in the middle of the day. I don't know, just some something about just seeing the sunrise and then just having that breeze from the morning and then just knowing that like the whole day. It's just how I my mind is programmed in the morning. When I run is like the only time I really enjoy running, which is so weird and I don't know why that's like that, but. Yeah, there's something really invigorating about mornings. I I joke all the time that, you know, my day starts at its peak. Like I wake up like a golden retriever, you know, like I wake up ready to go.

1:31:32 And my wife isn't a morning person, so it's hilarious. Like I I wake up just ready to go. And you know, she's one of those wakes up with one eye squinted like needs her coffee type thing. And like, my day starts here and then it gradually, it gradually goes down. Like there's something about mornings. Like I love a morning hike, like going for a hike in the morning, like just there's something about how it centers me for the day that I really, really enjoy. So I can appreciate that aspect. I've never tried that. Maybe that's the secret. I've never tried waking up at 6:00 to go running. You know, I go on hikes and stuff. Maybe that's when I just need to Sprint on my door. Yeah, no, I definitely agree.

1:32:12 I mean, if I wait later, I'll just know I'm not going to do it if I don't do it in the morning and I enjoy it. But yeah, I mean, I do it as if I don't completely win the morning, then it's just harder for me to do things during the day. Like if I don't get a quick sweat in the morning, send a few emails out, meditate, and then just do something productive. Even if I'm not just necessarily working on Unix, but doing something productive towards my life. Like once I like get those 2-3 hours done in the morning, then the day just goes by a lot easier. Like I'm just more focused and able to do my job more efficiently and I don't know.

1:32:56 And when starting you next, I didn't have that mentality and I think that it, like business, just rerouted by mine towards being more of a morning person, which I thought you were bored a morning or night person, but I don't know. No, I don't think so. I haven't always been a morning person. Oh yeah? How did? You were in, you were in France for a long time. Yeah. How did that, like, how did that shift your mentality about your business and your, you know, your Wellness and and just like your daytoday routine because you didn't work much when you were there, right? Or at all. Like it was kind of a go there to spend time with people, right? So I was there for a month And then are you talking about this past time?

1:33:41 I. Was. Yeah. Yeah. Because you were there for quite some time. And I know like. You know, as a as a founder of a startup, you know, you probably got a little, I'm sure, anxious at times, right? Like Oh my goodness, this work has to be done. But you know, how did? How did you spend a month there and remove yourself from everything? Yeah, so for the first two weeks, I spend my mornings up to like 1:00 PM. Still working on you Next. So I did a little bit of work. It was hard to have calls because we're seven hours ahead, so it was hard to align those. So I try to limit the amounts of calls that I had, but also still being able to work for the two first weeks in the morning because we did some traveling, but it was nearby. And so that was a lot more freeing because that's something I was nervous about.

1:34:34 Going to Frances a month there, I better get some work done. There's no way I'm going to whole month without getting work done. And so previously, I mean before France, I work every day, seven days a week. On weekends, weekdays didn't matter. And so going to France and just not working for sometimes three to four days, the second, the two weeks afterwards it was, it was nerve wracking a little bit and it wasn't until the last few days that I was really able to enjoy that. And I feel like sometimes I'm like victim of that, but sometimes I don't live in the present moment enough.

1:35:18 And it's so hard with your startup always thinking about the next move and the next move and what the, what else could happen from there and then still focusing on the present moment. So it's like, it's like during my whole entire work day, I'm just like thinking about the future and how that could affect the future. But living in the present moment is still something I'm working on. And just the last few days I just started to just being like present and like, OK, I'm not doing business now. Let me refocus my mentality because often time I was just with my family, we were just laying on the beach. And then I'm just thinking about work, thinking about what we could do and such. And I was in and out of conversations and it just took a lot of time to just focus on just that moment. And so it enabled me to, once I came back, it enabled me to really.

1:36:20 So we're pivoting and we're like re putting a lot of effort, but it enabled me to look at pivoting in a new lens and being more like relaxed because I was able to take the five days. And I think since the creation of Unix, I I don't think I've spent five days in a row where I was really like present with my family and just kind of like zone job out for a little bit. And once I got done with those like last I want to say yeah, anywhere from three to five days. I just like that's for some reason that I enabled me to look at you next in in a more clear way in the pivoting process.

1:37:08 And when we did our pivoting plan, I was a lot more detail oriented into that, into that adjustment. And so I think that it took me a while to adjust to not thinking about business. But it was definitely tough. It was tough. Feel like my mind is so programmed into thinking about the future. And so spending two weeks trying to stay off of a computer is kind of hard. But yeah, eventually hit and die actually felt really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited for you next. But I'm excited for you, man. I I it's got so much potential. Thank you.

1:37:50 I I just, you know, the Sky's the limo that it has to be so exciting. It is very exciting, I mean. So it's hard not to keep working, you know, that's what I'm saying. Like it's so hard not to take and work and think about work or work. But yeah, I mean, it's excited. I just think about the future. I'm like, I don't try to get too excited about it, because if I get too excited about it, I don't look at it at the proper angle. And you start caring too much. Yeah, I start caring, right? I I lose the nonchalant. But yeah, I know it's like I have to.

1:38:32 It's and that's something that I've seen in a podcast when I was in high school, is don't let the highs be too high, but don't let the lows be too low. And if you let the highs be too high, you'll be blinded by what could actually happen. And if you let the lows be too low, you won't be open to new opportunities. And so I tried to look at what you next can be, but also not get too excited about it and just stay focused on what we need to do right now. And I think that's like, that was a hard thing to change about it. Because when something great happens, you want to feel excellent about it and just celebrate it. But you know that when something happens, something else could happen.

1:39:17 So just not letting the high speed too high and low speed too low is like one of the main things I've worked on my whole life and continuously working on but. Yeah, at a golf coach, that kind of. That was one of his mentalities, really, For golfing. Yeah, like. Golf is one of the most humbling sports there could be, right? Like I golfed yesterday and had a great ball, striking day. Hit the ball fantastic and I could go out tomorrow and I could not. You know, it's such a humbling sport. So I always remember that thinking about like, you know, you can hit 6 great shots in a row but don't start, don't start thinking that's where you are, highs and lows. You got to come back to the middle for sure.

1:40:01 Yeah, Tyrone, I appreciate you coming on, man. It's been great talking to me, man. Already. That was fun. That was fun talking to you, man. And I love doing this. So let me know if you want to do it again, absolutely.