Spencer Young - Painting for Packers, Art & Creating His Own Path - Episode #69

0:00 What's up friends, welcome back to Rudra Wisconsin. Appreciate you for clicking another episode. Grateful to have you here. Today's episode is with Spencer Young, super talented artist and the person who makes the custom cleats for most of your Green Bay Packers paints, the Packers, fences, and a host of other things. We talked about his journey of being an artist, getting into it, doing art with his grandpa in drawing and having some instrumental people along the way, including the person who designed the original Green Bay Packers logo. Super cool stuff, great conversation. Of course we get philosophical at times. We find a bunch of rabbit holes and talk about all kinds of cool stuff. Shout out to our sponsors at Carouser bringing you non alcoholic beverages straight to your door. If you've thought about removing or limiting alcohol in your life or haven't, think about it now.

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1:40 I was wondering that like what how the logistics work dude, because you make so many like you so it sounds you deliver them right to him. Like, it's not like you drop them off at the stadium and they're there for them ready or something. Like that. So basically how it all started was I went to a football camp and I did some light painting with some cleats and stuff, and it was for Jaden Reed's youth football camp at City Stadium. Yeah. So when he showed up, he saw me painting. He's like, oh man, it's just your work's so cool. Like you have your contact info. It's like, yeah, here, here you go. And then Dontavian was there. He got my contact information. And it kind of like a couple weeks later, I just didn't think of any anything of it. And it was like my parents anniversary dinner and I got a text message from Jane Reed.

2:22 And he's like, hey, you think you get something dialed in next Sunday? I was like, yeah, you got, I got you, dude, don't worry. So yeah, everyone saw like his cleats in the locker room and then one, one player and then another player and so and then eventually the whole locker room. So. And the, and the, the whole like my cosmic cleats thing was probably a big boon to it, right? Because then they can like they get even more flexibility with what they can have. Yeah, so I guess like when it came to more work, it was after the first My Cause My Cleats game. So like that's when players are actually need custom cleats done, you know, to showcase like their causes and everything. So let's just say the past two weeks was really, really busy. The first game that I did, it was 27 pairs of cleats. Yeah.

3:07 So I was like, there were days where it's like 4 cleats a day, trying to just get them all dialed in. And then you're trying to create that same quality with every pair where it's just one of one. There's nothing else like it in the league so. Yeah. What's the process of it like, dude? Like it, is it a special kind of paint? Do you need certain like style shoes to do it? Like how does that work? So my best example to compare it is if you ever get a paint job on your car, like obviously got to make sure the surface is clean. Then you do your sanding, your prep work, you prime it, and then you put the paint on it. It's the same thing. So like I'll take a pair of cleats, I'll sand them and then use like acetone. So you use it to remove the finish and that's like it, it promotes the adhesion to it.

3:53 And then you do some special sprays on it with the additive. And then you just basically use, I use Andrew's paint and it's like a leather paint. So like once it's on the surface, it's a super flexible paint compared to any other standard paint. So it's like you can bend increase and they'll still retain that same shape without cracking. OK, Yeah. Super cool dude. I've I've so many questions for you. I'm fascinated by what you do. Like I I love when somebody finds like a little niche for something that they can just pour their heart into it. I can tell you do it with your stuff. I want to start though. I want to like turn back the the clock. Yeah, no worries. Like where does, where does art start for you, man? Like, because you're so talented and like, I love hearing the story of how that talent started to become shown.

4:38 You know what I mean? So where does it start? So ever since I could remember, like before walking, I probably had a pen in my hand just drawn on a piece of paper. My grandpa was a rustic painter, so he would paint on saw blades, he would paint on wood and he, he do mostly paintings for family and friends. He was very active in his church. So it was always kind of a request or like a birthday or Christmas gift. And I just always like, found that so fascinating that someone can like, take a piece of paper and a pencil and just create this amazing image. And I remember I would just like, sit at the corner with him and just draw, draw, draw. And we just crumble up paper and throw it on the ground.

5:19 We just have piles. Like grandma would be so mad. Like, you just waste, you know how many trees you just killed off right there? But it was one of those things where it was like, I enjoyed the art, but I enjoyed hanging out with my grandpa. And that's what really inspired me to like get into art so. And it started with drawing. Yeah. So it was always just drawing at first when I got into high school, Like, I attempted painting horrible. Like, I could not, like, just pick it up. I did not get it. And then I kind of took, like, the couple years off from, like, just a painting in general. And it wasn't until I went to Saint Robert in college and I took a drawing class and he kind of like, separated me from the class to do painting.

6:02 You want to teach me oil painting? And it would be Professor John Gordon. So if you're familiar with him, he's actually the creator of the Packer G logo. Yeah. So it was really cool being in his class and he would show me like sketches and concepts like Vince Lombardi, like told him, hey, I want a couple concepts. This is what I'm thinking. Why don't you go back and then come up with some ideas? Because he was a assistant equipment, so he'd like help out with like the team and everything. So he's like, OK, no problem. So then he he's literally like, I think he said he did like 6 sketches on a piece of paper and then Vince looked at it and he's like that one. And that's basically, there's slight tweaks and alterations to what it is today, but it's essentially the same G.

6:48 No way. Yeah. So it looks more like a football. So like if you ever like imagine an old school looking football, it's more kind of diamond shaped. So the original logo looked more like a diamond shaped G? Yeah. And he was showing me the original paper that he drew on when he was showing me the sketches. That's wild to know that that Vince picked it out. Yeah, he did. So it was like one of those things he someone on the team who knew how to draw. They were like, hey, can you come up with some? Next day brought brought some sketches and that one. That's super cool. So, OK, so it started in youth with grandpa. We had a we had a wood burning artist on a couple weeks ago and hers was similar. Hers was her grandma.

7:30 Yep. Then you develop to another kind of like motivator mentor type thing. Yeah. OK. And then how do you start to map out that like take it forward, you know, because there's time in there before when you're probably like the the quote UN quote starving artist, right? Like you have all this talent? I'm not really that starving carbon, if you can tell. So I just, like I said, I really enjoy what I do, you know, but I, I think so after college, I graduated obviously. And we're always told like once you graduate, you got to find a job in your field. So right away trying to find something. I worked at a furniture store for a while. And what was your undergrad? Bachelor of Arts and and emphasis with graphic design. OK perfect.

8:13 So just trying to find something. I ended up working for Oshkosh Defence. I did a lot of the big contract work through them and we worked in bidding proposals. So we would like layout documents and then trying to sell a vehicle or a product wasn't my cup of tea. It was long hours, like I think there's been weeks. It was 100 hour weeks where I just like, it was really draining me out and I knew that wasn't what I want to do for the rest of my life. So I kind of had to take a step back and like the one thing I always find myself doing in my downtime was drawing. And I just really love drawing. So I was like, you know what, I painted on walls. Why don't I just take a chance on myself and maybe I can like, you know, make some money painting murals. So my first project I did, I was just maybe like 2 weeks into it and then I actually got a phone call asking me if can you paint the packer's fence outside Lambeau Field, which I was like, that's just such a huge opportunity. Like my grandpa who passed away at that time, I just knew, like he knew exactly what that fence was. I was like, man, that would just be so cool to like kind of be ingrained in that tradition, that community with something like painting the packer's fence. So I said, yeah, for sure.

9:29 So that opportunity happened. And that was about the time that you did that first mural that you. Yeah. So like, just as I started in my business for myself, like when I say like, I think it's it's destiny most more often than none, like stuff is just meant to be. And that was just one of those, like, moments where I was like, this couldn't have happened at a better time, you know, life. Rewarded you for taking a step in an uncomfortable direction. Exactly. So what was the first mural? What was the one that you were doing when you got that call? So the so it was inspiring higher 360 and they're and then they have a so they're like a training facility for basketball players.

10:11 So they like train like high school, college and then pro athletes. So it was like a mural at their in their basketball court. So I was about like halfway through when I got like the message and I just like, wow, this is like so surreal, you know, so. So sick. Yeah, man. OK, so you get that call. You got to say yes to the fence. Yep. And then it's probably a rocket ship from there, right? I mean, it's always kind of like I, I embrace the struggle. That's what I always tell people like I like, I actually enjoy it a little bit where it's like, you know, if you're not going through like difficulty and you're not doing your best, like then it's like it's not worth like fighting for at the end of the day.

10:54 So like for me, like art has always been, you know, experimenting and like how can I propel myself in a situation where I can not only get more work, but my work gets recognized across the community or even the country. So with the Packers fence, like it really did open a lot of opportunities, but it was more so that when I explored into other facets like obviously customizing like football cleats or shoes, like I always did that in college for like my buddies that were on the. So I play college football at Saint Aubre for a couple years. And so the I think it was like my sophomore year, that's when the first customized shoe was ever introduced in the NFL. So my buddies are like, you think you can do that? And I was just like, I can give it a shot. So I remember my first pair I ever painted for one of my buddies, it didn't even last like 5-10 minutes. Like I didn't have the right paint, I didn't have the right process.

11:48 Like no one really knows what to do when it comes to customizing a football cleat. So with that being said, I just, you know, I practice holding in my skills. I'm still like practicing to this day. And it was just like one of those opportunities where I think the Packers fence helped because I've had players reach on like, hey, I know you paint the fence out there. You also customize shoes. So it was kind of like I do, I can like give it a shot. And like, you know, before I would say like I've been doing custom cleats for Packer players like for multiple years. It just hasn't been like extreme the past couple seasons. So before that it was maybe like two or three pairs. And then with this previous two seasons, like the year before, it was like 60 pairs of cleats.

12:36 And then this past year was over 150. So say over double the most. Damn, that's super cool. There's a nugget in there that I think we should hang on for a little while though, because it's really valuable about. I want to dig a little deeper into enjoying the process and like embracing the struggle. Where do you think that comes from? Because I like, I have a in life, a lot of times the things we get the most satisfaction out of the things of that we struggle to get. Yeah. Like it's hard work to get there. Do you think that's the basis or what drives you past that stuff? Is it the satisfaction at the end or is it the process of learning and growing?

13:18 Yeah. Why do you think you like? It, I think it's a little bit of everything. I think definitely the reward of it. So like when I custom, let's just say I'll customize like 10 pairs in a week and then come Sunday, like I see all those cleats on TV. Oh, that's going to be cool as hell. It's just like the wow, like I actually did it. I made that happen at the end of the day for the players and the team. You know, I'm always a fan first. So it's like in ways I feel like I'm doing my part to help the squad, you know, So and then with the struggle, like my dad was always a blue collar worker, like he worked for Bull for like 40 years. And there's he's always up before dawn and work until dusk. And like, it was kind of hard to kind of explain to my family that like, I want to do art full time, you know, but they were very supportive of it.

14:02 And I try and like take the same mentality that like my dad had and apply it to the art. So like, for me, like, I'm a night owl, I'll stay up hours making sure a project's done. I'll get a few hours of sleep, and I'll continue working on more projects. You know, I just want to make sure that I leave my best work out there and I leave a good legacy. Yeah. That's awesome, dude. I, I told that path. So like sometimes I'll get stuck in this thing where like I, I always work really hard, but like, let's use the podcast an example. There are always ways to get better, right? Like I could buy better cameras. I could do a different kind of prep. I could be, you know, mapping out a lot of things.

14:43 And then I get squirreled by these different ideas. And then I feel like I'm working hard, but I'm not being intentional with that work and I'll have to rein myself in. And that's an important thing, I think for the driven individual that you're talking about because we can quickly fall into like anything I do if I decide to do it like it's going to get my 100% effort, but what is that effort mean you want to? Make sure that your effort is creating the best results possible. Like you want to be as efficient as possible when you're putting in 100%. Yeah. So I think for me in like even in my career, it's more so like trying to find that thing. Like I can tell you like I've how many of the experiments I've done in my whole career, our career so far, and I'm just like, I enjoy it, but it's just, it's not what other people enjoy. And so it's like, I kind of like, I want to come back to that, but I'm going to have to abandon that and find something else.

15:39 So it's like my mural work has always been something where catches everyone's eye. It's always been super positive and well received. And then the custom shoes and custom cleats. And then that's the other thing. So it's like generally when I try and focus on stuff, I highlight my custom shoes, my custom cleats and mural work. But if it were up to me, like personal projects, like after the season, nothing but personal projects. So like, I can't tell you how many paintings I've done on canvas since the football season ended. And you know, I just, it's more of a relief. Like, you know, you're, you're, you're not on a deadline anymore. You're kind of doing something that you enjoy. So I think you can have your things that you want to explore and look into.

16:20 I feel like that's fine, but it's like once you find your thing and everyone likes it, like it's kind of hard not to not do it. You got to leverage. It as an artist exactly yeah man did you ever so playing college football did you ever end up doing your cleats that you would wear yeah so. Like not in college. I was always like, I don't know, it would be like if a singer was like listening to their own music or at a party or something. So like I when I, when I played semi professional football, so I played with like guys that were like, you know, they played Division One football or played in the NFL. And then you have a guy that never suited up and played football in his life and wanted to try it. So when when I play semi pro, I thought, well, I could actually showcase my work on my feet and I can sell, you know, my work by just like it's a player on the field from other teams. Like those are cool.

17:10 Where's Spencer Billboard? Yeah, I would. Literally. Just a big 6/4 on my jersey that's they know it's me and all. So I just like, like I said, yeah, hit me up, you know, I'm on Facebook and everything and we'll get something done. So for a long while, that's all I got my practice in, you know, I just like doing custom work for guys in the league and just, you know, just keep improving on it. Yeah, yeah. How'd? The how'd the logistical side of the business develop for you? Because that's often times like people follow a passion. You start a business, you start doing a thing and the logistics kind of come along with it. You learn as you have to. How about come along for you? Like contracts, all of that stuff. It's all just trial. And error, I think it's still kind of trial and error at this point, you know, so like when I wake up in the morning, I really don't know what I'm going to do that day.

17:54 Like I could get a phone call being like, hey, I need 10 custom order of like football cleats. OK, great. And then the next day I'll be like, hey, there's this huge mural project in like Texas that we want to fly you out to. And it's like, I think with me, it's more adapting to the situation. It's not necessarily having a solid game plan. It's just like, whatever opportunity is that your way, just say yes to and you'll figure it out. So that's an. Important part of life, man the the willingness to say yes. We've talked about that in a couple different episodes of the the value of that, you know, sometimes when it's uncomfortable too. So it sounds like a big geographic area, so like where where are some of your murals like so new?

18:36 York is 1 if you're familiar with, like, she's had TV. Yeah. So like live acts. I painted their headquarters there. If you're familiar with the games, Roblox. Yeah. So Wonder Work Studios, who creates a lot of the games for Roblox, they flew me down to paint their whole headquarters. So trying to give you an example, like a vibe. But like, if you're familiar with like David Cho, he's an artist that did the Facebook headquarters. So essentially I did the same thing for their headquarters and their animation department. So I just went around the whole building, like I can't remember how many square feet, but it was enormous and just spray paint tagged every wall I could like get done in the next few days.

19:18 That's so. Cool man and so how did they did they tell you how they found you like how does that so funnel to you and this is where we. Talk about like saying yes to opportunities And I actually played semi pro with a guy for a year and I really like, you know, didn't know him well but he just reached out like hey, I don't know if you Remember Me but I work for wonder work studio down in Texas and they're trying to find local artists. And I said I know a guy, would you be willing to fly out and paint? Like at that time it was only like 2 walls. And I said yeah sure, let's make it happen. So they flew me out and I talked with the CEO of the company. He's like, how much? How much would it be just to go crazy with like everything in the whole building?

20:00 I was like, well, I'm only here for a few days. He's like, well, I'll double what we're paying you. Perfect. Let's make it happen. And like I said, and like stuff is meant to be, there's a Hobby Lobby next door. So like I get a lot of my spray paint from Hobby Lobby. So all I had to do is like walk next door. By maybe a few $100 worth of spray paint just go kind of crazy in the building so and they just gave you free. Reign yeah, pretty they just. Said like make sure you incorporate all the characters that we have. And like I said, just kind of have fun with it. So, and it was cool because like my mom was like, well, I've never been to Texas. I was like, all right, you could be my helper. So like, we flew down together and she was helping me paint the walls and stuff. And it was good mother son bonding time, you know, so kind of one of those another experiences that I'll cherish forever.

20:45 So yeah. Absolutely. One of those things that like at the at 1 angle it's kind of self affirming. You'll get this sweet job, it turns out awesome. You get to hang out and and bring family with you. And on another angle, it's like your portfolio develops by happenstance. You know, one cool connection. You were nice to a guy at one time and he's like, yeah, this dude's cool. And that opens a massive door that starts to rainfall and. That's, and that's literally what it is. And it's like I, I do a lot of mural work. I don't know if you're familiar with Lion's Tail Brewery and Nina. And then they have OK, great place. By the way, I would recommend stopping there for a beer. And they get, they got some good food too, But they have another location Wauwatosa.

21:34 So I had AI had someone reach out to me and said like, listen, I'm trying to find like this awesome Christmas gift. All I have is 100 bucks. And this was like way earlier in my career. Like you think you get 2 small paintings done for me and I just they asked for two. 2 for two. So I was like, you know what? But it's, it's the, it's that time of year where it's like, you know, if I can make someone's day by giving something special to someone else, like I'm going to do it like this is my good deed around the holidays. So I did that and he messaged me like a couple weeks later he's like, Oh my gosh, paintings were such a huge hit. The owners of the brewery saw your work and they'd love to connect with you and get something done. So I've done 12344 murals for them and all their breweries. So it was like that $100 opportunity turned into like a huge opportunity with like a, a very well paying project at the end of the day.

22:29 So it's like you can say no to stuff that. I just feel like if you say yes, you never know what doors it's going to open at the end of the day. And I would rather have the the unknown kind of like being an opportunity down the line where it's like it could be something special. Yeah, absolutely that. Probably gets hard to navigate to right though, as you grow when you get more projects because it just talking to you a little bit. It seems like having that mentality of like you understand the importance of what you create. Yeah. So you have this pressure of like, OK, it's a very common artist thing, right? You get asked to do stuff for free or you get asked to weigh under values your talent because you're like one in 20,000 people can can do what I do.

23:14 But. At the same time, people, it's, it's hilarious to ask for two. Yeah, but that's the thing. Because it's like, I think it was for like the brother and sister. So it's like, you know, and I got a brother too. And it's like, I can't say no to my brother if like, you know, they were going to get something special for the holidays. So I just like at that time, like I was doing whatever I can to get my work out there too, you know. So I think now I'm a little bit more comfortable situation where it's like, so the past couple years have definitely been chaotic from August to like at least January or February. So it's like, I'm sorry, I can't take any more projects on. So like I had like one or two murals during the football season this past year and it's just, it was so hard juggling that between like trying to get cleats done for players and then trying to do the mural work on top of it. So I told him, like I told my wife, I was like, I'm going to have to like re evaluate.

24:10 So like when it's August to like February, nothing but cleats. I can't do anything else. So yeah, I mean, and then you have like these games where it's like they have the throwback game. So like the Packers will wear the blue jerseys and brown pants and then they had the leather custom helmets made. So everyone wants tailored cleats for that. And then what a lot of people don't know is 3 weeks later it was the my cause my cleats game. So when it's like I got to paint like 12 pairs of cleats that week and then on top of doing the cleats for the next upcoming weeks and then get ready for 50 plus pair of cleats for the by clause game. It's like, you know, within 3 or 4 weeks you're doing like close to 100 pair of cleats.

24:51 So it does get a lot and trying to balance everything. It's yeah, it gets difficult. So and their schedules. Are crazy too, so they probably like they get around to texting you whenever they get a chance yeah and then it's like 5 days before the game and you're like oh it's not even that not even. That I'll tell you a story. So like I, I think it was a couple years ago if they were playing the Seahawks, I had Eric Stokes message me at 6:00 on a Friday. So like that's when they had to travel. So like, I'd like arrange, like with the equipment staff and be like, hey, I'll be there in 1/2 hour to pick up cleats. So I picked up his cleats, brought him back to my studio, worked on them all night, drove the morning right before they flew out. And I think it was like 10 AM at Lambeau. Yeah.

25:34 So like, my, my dedication to make sure everyone's fitted right for the game is above and beyond, I think. So Sick. Yeah. Have you delved into any other sports yet? Yeah, so actually. Baseball I have just for one player, Ryan Papillo, he's, I still believe he's on the Tampa Bay Rays, but I did a couple cleats for him and he wore them during a game pitching. And I just like that's just such another cool opportunity where it's like, it's one thing seeing like football cleats on the field and just seeing in a different sport with like custom shoes is like, wow, it's a different feeling for each thing. I think. I bet, yeah. And that's probably an interesting decision to make, right? Because building on our earlier conversation, you often times we leverage what works.

26:18 And on one side of the coin, you talked about how it's nice to have that release and let some of the stuff you have inside of you out as opposed to like making things for others. But you can also see a really cool path forward with just like, OK, NFL goes to NBANBA goes to MLBMLB goes to the next and then, you know, the next thing you know, you're doing GG fights or something. So what's, what are your thoughts around that dude? Like, where's the growth happen? And that's the thing. Like I especially like, so my, I wouldn't say it's my first year because I've been customizing cleats for players for a while, but like my first big year where I did like 60 pairs of cleats for the Packer players.

26:59 When the offseason hit, a lot of players left. And you know, like for example, TJ Slade, well, when he left the Packers, he signed with the Cincinnati Bengals. And when he signed with the Bengals, he's like, hey, would you still be willing to do cleats for me? Yeah, no problem. We'll just have to figure it out. It was like my first time really dealing with like shipping cleats and stuff. But I did a pair of cleats for him every week. So he's he's a big sneaker head. So it was always a variant of like a shoe that he really, really wanted. And I would just have to kind of recreate it. So like they, they had the drawer like the Gammas, like the shoes that they're called. And he wanted me to recreate it. Make sure the bottoms are icy blue and then make sure he had like little quotes in there and everything.

27:41 So I'd have to make sure like every Friday before 6 O clock, I was at FedEx so I'd be there on time. So when when it come to like expanding my work across the league, like that first year it was just focused on Packers. And then it's like when players left, they would see, they would bring my work with them. So it's like my first year was Packer players and then this past year it was Green Bay Packers, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the Pittsburgh Steelers, Atlanta Falcons. So with just the NFL in general, like I went from one to like 5 different teams.

28:21 And now when when it comes to other sports now like I've had like agents reach out to me asking me to do work as well. So Bryce Underwood, the quarterback for the Michigan Wolverines, I've done custom cleats for him when he was like just committee. So like when he committed to LSUI, did a custom LSU pair of cleats for him, and then he backed out and then he went to the Wolverines. So then I did another Michigan Bear for him. Yeah. So, but like, even these high school kids that like the NIL deals are absolutely insane. Like I'm doing custom cleats for like high school kids and talking with their agents to make those cleats happen. Really. Yeah. So it's just like it's a whole different landscape when it comes to like, sports in general. Like, I think the custom work has really picked up because it's just a, it's a, it's such a hot commodity.

29:04 Like I think it makes a player really stand out compared to like, you know, like if Chad Ochocinco had custom pair of cleats like that when he played, I think it would propel him to the stratosphere, you know, when it comes to a personality. But I mean, yeah, it's just kind of like crazy. What? You never know what the next big thing's going to be, and that's probably an. Interesting part of considering like growth within just the NFL, right, because you're you're 1 dude. It's not like you can hire somebody else to do them too. And that's the thing, I. I saw my wife. I wish it was more than one me. Like, granted, like when it comes to prepping, like football cleats or everything, I'll hire my wife to help me in the garage, like sanding cleats. And then like during my 'cause I was like, I messaged my brother, I was like, would you come over for a few hours and help me, like sand the stack of cleats? And like, it was funny because like every pair he grabbed, he's like, whose cleats are these?

29:55 And I'd be like, those are Keyshawn Dixons sick. Yeah, so. You just like I'm, I'm going to tell he's like I'm telling all my buddies which ones I, I, I stand in and prep for the game. So like when they're watching, he's like, I did those ones. I did those ones. I was like, yeah, you do what you got to do, you know? Absolutely. Man, well, you get it. You know, you said your fan first too. You get it. That's a cool experience it is for. Sure, have your. Hands on something like that. That's awesome man. That it's I think another important piece of it thinking about the growth is that it builds upon or bridges a part of like larger society too, because you mentioned sneaker heads like like it's a thing outside of sports. Yeah too. Is that a realm that you've delved into? Do you have you done it for non athletic shoes? Oh for sure I've.

30:42 Done custom like shoe work. I just never really expanded my work really heavily into the sneaker head community. It's more so, like for me, my work is when someone reaches out to me, that's where I don't have to reach out for the work. It's more so people find me in contact, which is awesome. Yeah. Which I'm super blessed to have that be a natural thing in my life. You know, like I'll tell my wife sometimes, like, like now it's kind of a slow period. I'm like not getting any messages. And she's like, you've been saying this for the past 12 years already, and it all works out at the end of the day. And it's like, sure enough, like this week I had like 2 mural opportunities pop up where it's like, OK, yeah, I'm sitting pretty good.

31:25 So it's like, for the most part, I haven't really had to like, hey, like, do you want work done? You know, it's more so like I just have to be patient and people come to me for it, so. Kind of speaking towards what you're talking about earlier, you know, you, you put your attention to something, you do it the best you can and then you let it flow to you, right? And I. Think that's where if, if you want to have a successful business at the end of the day, I think you let your work speak for yourself because I just think like I, I take my time with every project I do. I make sure it's perfect at the end of the day. Granted, nothing's 100% perfect at the end of the day, but for my capabilities, I'll make sure I do my best. And I feel like your work really reflects what kind of business you can generate at the end of the day. So that's why too, I think that's a part of it why people reach out to me more often than none. It's because they see the work, it's good, and they want something similar to that.

32:21 So like I said, you know, not saying that like I'm blessed to have people reach out to me. I think it's kind of earned at the end of the day as well where it's, you know, you really put your best work out there for sure. And that builds the most like sustainable relationships and business model because then it's not like there's this interesting correlation between, you know, the benefits that you say you're going to provide and then the benefits that get provided. And if you outlive that or if you out rank what you said you were going to do, they're going to come back for more and more and they're going to go to a different team and they're going to call Spencer. And then they're going to be like, they're going to have a teammate that says, I want some custom cleats.

33:03 Where do you get those? You can call my guy Spencer. That's really. What it is, Yeah. And like, that's and that's what it is right now when you're expanding the other teams. Like I even told my wife I was like, I would hate to come to the point where it's like I'd have to give up like my mural work. But it's like if the shoes just become like a bigger entity than what it is right now, then it's like I have no choice but to do that year long, you know. So like I have football season that keeps me busy throughout the whole season. That's August to like February, but like now it's like baseball season starting. So if like I, my work got in the MLB and all that, then it's like, yeah, that's going to be how how much longer doing custom cleats. That's going to be all year now doing like custom footwear.

33:45 So it's like I wouldn't have time to do the mural work. So I try and balance it in a way where it's like I get to have a little bit of everything and kind of like I, I'll be honest, I can get a little bored after a while. So I feel like it's hard. It's all right, dude. We're. We are. This is nonchalant here. Yeah. This is real life. No worries, man. No and not. By the way, like little nervous, I'm not the best at public speaking or like anything like that. So you didn't know. OK yeah. I'm like, I played offensive line, you know, So I'm a bit of a goofball at the end of the day. Like I play more mental games and I do the physical games at the end of the day. So I'll have like a player throwing punches at me or something. You're a good trash talker.

34:27 Yeah, pretty much I. Love it dude. So I was a three sport athlete. I my best trash talk came out in basketball. I love talking some jazz on the basketball floor. Football, I was a quarterback, so I would talk a little bit, but more so it was there's too much going on. Like I don't know how Philip Rivers ever did it. Just talk and trash all the time. Where where tackle, guard, What'd you play? I played. All over the offensive line. So when I, I went to my freshman year at Saint Orbit, I play offense tackle and then my sophomore year I played offensive guard and then when I played on my pro ball, I was all over the place. Believe it or not, I'm at I'm the biggest I am right now. However, there was a point where at that time when I was my biggest, I decided I'm going to lose weight and I lost like 180 lbs. So I ended up playing like tight tight end, semi professional and we scrimmage the blizzards and I was the only player to catch a pass against the scrimmage for like 15 yards. Like I was literally like don't shoulders and the like, safeties and stuff and I was like, all right, it was worth losing the weight there 180.

35:32 Pounds is intense. Dude, a lot. Yeah. I, I was more of a runner than anything. And like I ate and it's not necessarily I ate like super clean, but like I would eat multiple times throughout the day. So it's like I have a small meal, wait three hours, have another small meal, wait another three hours. I'd probably do that like 6 times a day. OK. But then the running, like I remember every weekend, like I would run from my apartment to my parents house and that was like 10 miles. So like I, I, I am making a mission to run like 2 1/2 miles like every day at that time. So honestly, I don't do a lot of running anymore. And that's I, I'm trying to like ease my way back into it. So life ebbs and.

36:13 Flows in that range, man. I've been trying to find a, especially as I age. I've been trying to find the right way to eat because for a long time like I I didn't even know it was a thing when I started it, but I guess I was intermittent fasting. Like, I, that's just how I ate. And now recently, and this is kind of a life circumstance that got me here, but my kid wants oatmeal every morning and I and I can't make oatmeal without eating oatmeal. I just, I like oatmeal. Yeah. So I, I was making it and I was like, all right, well, we'll do breakfast together. We'll, we'll have oatmeal every day. And now I'm going more along this path, like I'm having several small meals throughout the day. And I can't tell. But I'd one thing I do know, man, is with every year that passes, that metabolism gets a little bit slower.

36:54 That's what it is. For sure. And like that's what's catching up to me right now. And it's like I told my wife I was like, love to just get back on that routine. But like that's the difference between me and her. It's like for me, I could eat the same meal like every day and it wouldn't bother me. So like when I lost my weight, like it was always broiled haddock and white rice and broccoli. That was my dinner like every day. And then you put like God diced green chilies and tomatoes on it. You put a little mozzarella on top of it. It is the best. That's like my favorite meal. Like when I was on my health kick. So I told her I was like, I'd love to get back to eating that like everyday. And she like, and I get it because like a lot of people need variety in their meals, but that's just like to each their own. Like everyone's different when it comes to like losing weight. Even so for me, like I've always like struggle losing weight. And the one thing that I always found that worked was eating small meals and I space them out three hours, like everyday and making sure that was a thing.

37:55 And then like, I didn't really eat a whole lot of fast food on my, like, my health kick or anything. I think you just like, you have to find that right formula to make it work for you. Like, for the body type that I have. That's what worked for me. Sure. Yeah. Let me ask you. This I'll follow up after you tell because I went through a similar thing. But when you like running, going from running 10 miles consistently to not doing it, do you notice any mental changes? Like do you miss it? Do you catch yourself acting differently or like yearning for that and being and being a high level athlete when that's gone, do you find yourself in a like mentally affected at all? Yeah, I think.

38:41 The how you manage stress, this is a huge thing. So like for me, it's like if I ever felt like I was getting this pent up energy and I was like, I'm just going to go on a run. And then it's just like you're just with yourself and your thoughts. Like you just, I could put on like the Airpods and then do a little jogging. Like I always had a routine where it's like if I listen to one song, that's three minutes of just running, that's perfect. Then the next song I'm going to walk, you know. So it was like it was more of like a structured routine where it was like, hey, if I needed to step away and take a breath and think, think things out, that was my outlet. But then it's like you don't do that anymore. So you don't have that outlet to kind of like de stress where I think it can like definitely like play with your emotional and your mental state at the end of the day. So for me even, that's why I want to get back into it because it's like if, if I'm customizing football, please would be just easy for me to like, you know what, I'm going to step away from this for a little bit, throw the air pods in and go for, you know, a little run.

39:43 It's not anything art related. It's just it's something different. It it separates you from the chaos. Yeah, yeah. I asked because I had a pretty good revelation in my life. So when I after high school and when I decided I was going to stop playing football, my hobby was basketball. Like I had played basketball. Never took it really seriously. I liked other sports better, but for like probably man, probably a 15 year period. 12/12 year period for sure. Played basketball several times a week and a few years ago busted my ankle bad. I haven't been able to play since. I probably could now, but I found other outlets. But here's the thing.

40:24 I couldn't play for a while and when I stopped playing football, I told myself I was never going to lift weights again. I hate lifting weights. I still do. I just, it's not something I enjoy. So I didn't have any type of workout outfit like I do. I I do a morning walk. I've done that for a long time. But that was it. Nothing else. And I got a couple months into it after I hurt my ankle and I was just a completely different person. And I didn't, I didn't realize it. And I can't remember how it, I ended up with the awareness. I feel like my wife might have said something to me, like, you know, like you've been on edge a little bit lately or something. And I I it took me a long time to diagnose the connection. Yeah, but. And then when I thought about it, I was like, man, like that was really pivotal piece of my life that's now not only affected my physical health, but my mental health too, because I was, I was when I thought about it, when it got brought to my attention, I was like, man, I am kind of being a Dick sometimes. And I am like a little bit more on edge. And so I've had to find other outlets. Now I got into yoga.

41:27 I love yoga a lot. That helps me. But I've come to realize that I always did that for a purpose, like I was, you know, I was working out obviously lift weights to be a better football player. Or I went. To who? Because I enjoyed the competition and I needed to. That's what it is. I think we're all born gladiators in a way. Like if you're an athlete, like you want that competition, you want to be competitive at the end of the day. So like for me, like football, I love football because it was always like you, you not only hang out with your brothers at the end of the day and you play a sport that everyone loves, but it's like you get that pent out, aggression out. And it's always something where I think it's a phase in life. You always think that phase in life is going to continue throughout your whole life.

42:15 And then you have to come to the realization and it's like you're going to have to slow down eventually. And for me, it's always been like, I always thought I'm going to play football for like 20 years, you know, And then it's like I stopped playing football. And then when every time I try and work out again, I feel like, oh, I got to do that same level. But it's like the older you get, you can't have that same output that you put in, you know, So like for me, it's, I need to realize that like I don't have to run 10 miles like everyday. I don't have to lift weights for three hours. It's like as long as you're out doing something physical for an hour, you're going to be OK. Eat, eat, eat clean and stuff like that. I just feel like I get that mindset where it's like you, you play a sport and you just like, you know, you. I think it's the realization too, is like you are getting older and there's a point where it's like, yeah, I'm going to have to stop at some point, you know, that's spot. On man and and that's where I had to shift that mindset to sing.

43:18 OK, there are other benefits other than that thing because I completely agree, dude. For as long as I can remember, like that is a thing. Put me against somebody in something, I'm going to do whatever I can to win. Exactly this. Is what I'm. Going to do, but doesn't that make? You feel good at the end of the day because it's like, I feel like that's part of our human nature is to have some sort of competitive nature. So like even in art, like when I'm, it's not like it's a competition, but I see other artists out there that inspire me in my work. So when I say like my drive is what makes my work the best quality, it is, I wouldn't be that if I didn't have competition and healthy competition. Like I'll reach out to the other artists.

43:59 I'm like, how do you do this? How do you do that? And you know, there's some that are like just screw off. I'm not going to tell you my secrets. And there's some that are like super warm and receptive about it. But at the end of the day, it's, it's healthy. You want it to be healthy competition because that's what makes you better at the end of the day, 100%. Yeah. And then I came to the realization that I can focus that competitiveness in other areas of my life. And now like, I feel great after doing yoga because I, I get that thing in my brain now where I was missing when I hurt my ankle and I didn't have it. So like, it's a whole different outlet. It's not, it's, it's more like inward focus. It's more like for me when, you know, I was benching to, you know, be a better football player, but I didn't know that I was getting all those other benefits at the same time. And that's an.

44:47 Interesting part of aging man you you you realize these seasons of life happen and you're attention goes in different areas but everything in life goes together and you have to find balance in everywhere you can. I know it took me a lot. It's like that Ying and. Yang, you always got to make sure there's that perfect balance and equilibrium with everything. And like even for me, like that's why too, I've always find myself re evaluating like every couple months. It's like, what can I be doing different that will help me, You know, because like at the end of the day, I want a really good work life, but I also want a really good family life. And you want this. And it's like, that's why going on the walks does help because I think that's kind of like your, it's your totem at the end of the day.

45:33 That's what you find your center because you can think that stuff out too. So it's like even you talking about your yoga, like that's inspiring me to like, Oh man, I got I got to get out there. I got to do my thing. So like I said, I just think it's, you know, you got to find that balance in life and there's going to be it's just chapters. Your life is a book and it's like the football that was a chapter. Now you're moving on to the next page and you just got to keep finding stuff that's going to find that balance in life 100%. Yeah. And then how do you, how do you relate that to creatively then if we go back to that direct a little bit because often times like you, you can't really force it out, right.

46:15 Like you mentioned, when you do it after season, there's a bunch of stuff pent up in there that you're ready to get out. But are there ways that you find that you can inspire yourself with different ideas or you look at things a different way that make that stuff come out more frequently? I think it's a wiring thing in my brain sometimes where it's like I can look at things differently than what the average person. Like I'm not trying to get a big head about like how my process. Yeah, I appreciate it, but it's like I'll just rant, like randomly get an idea, like I'll just like I'll look at something like, you know what, I could do this. Like one of my favorite pastimes is like going on and thrifting. Like I I didn't do it the whole football season, but like after the season was over, I was like, Oh yeah, I'm hitting up every store in Appleton and Green Bay.

47:04 We're going to find the best of the best. And like, I found this ceramic. Like it, it looks like a coffee ground bag. And like for me, just like it took me like a second to look at that. I was like, I'm going to repurpose that and I'm going to paint it to look like a Monopoly money bag and it looks spot on like a Monopoly money bag. That's kind of like how like my brain works at the other day when it comes to like canvases and painting. Like I could just like think of one random thing and then kind of like spider web it for different, different ideas and I just pinpoint something. So it it's kind of weird. It's kind of like a a beehive at the other day, like you're thinking of multiple little things and then like the bees are coming back to the hive and like telling you like these are all the ideas you can do.

47:45 And then there's just a one that's like I that that's it. That's what I'm going to roll with. That's super. Interesting too. Do you think has that developed throughout your life or do you think that was innate to some aspect you know and I've. Always like, and I'll say this, I've always been like gifted in art. Like my art teachers in elementary always said that like he's going to do something art related when he grows up. Like I was like I went to the Milwaukee Art Museum. Like I was selected out of like a handful of kids to like illustrate stuff in books. Like I was illustrating in like stamp hobby books, like by work when I was like 3rd, 4th grade. Like I always had the like I had the eye to like draw stuff and I always had the ideas to like come up with stuff. So I mean, it's always like, and that's what makes it so in my, that's why too, when I say like I got to go for walks and stuff, it's because my brain won't shut off. Like there's times where it's like I'll lay down and then just think I was going.

48:43 To say, hence the night owl thing. It's literally what? It is. So I'll just think until my brain crashes out, which it probably isn't the healthiest thing to do, but like, I don't know, like it's just my process. Like it works for me, you know, it seems. Like that's kind of a commonality in the arts in specifically is that I, you know, we all have different types of brains. And it seems like that type of brain or that bucket of brain that kind of has that thing where it's like, I don't just lay my head on the pillow and go to sleep. There's all these other things. Whereas you flip that with my brain, I like, I'm envious of a lot of those, that type of looking at things because my creatively, my creativity comes out in different realms. And you compare that to how my brain operates. I'm a, I'm a morning person.

49:33 Like I'm the most productive. I'm going to be from like, 6:00 AM until like 11. Yeah. And when it gets post 11, there's a Cliff coming because I'm going to hit a part where my brain is going to turn off. I'm going to want to just hang out with my kid and joke around and just like, not not think creatively, but think like in the moment. Yeah. And, you know, I've never read a ton of research about the connection between those, but I guarantee there's something. Yeah. And I would. Say like even even my life when it in general, I would say it's more chaos and it is structured. So like I don't really follow a schedule or routine. I just go to the beat of my own drum. Like I'll, you know, I'm feeling this today and I'm going to do this, you know, And it's like I'm kind of like the even Steven at the end of the day.

50:19 It's like when you do something, you're like, I should have done that, but then something happens like where you break even on everything. So it's like, yeah, I just kind of roll with that and keep keep doing my thing. And so far it's been going great. So no complaints for me at all. Or even my wife, my wife and family. So I was going to say there's a. Couple things there. Your wife probably enjoys that because often type that that person you ride the wave. Yeah, OK. But I'll say this. So my wife is an educator. So like, and she like works with like, Oh my gosh, she's going to, she's going to kill me for not knowing. But like don't show her this part. Yeah, like pre-K. Like she works with kids that age. So it's like they have to have structure in their life.

51:02 So like for me, like she says, you know what? You got me ready to like teach these kids because you're just a big kid yourself. Because like for me, I always have just an outgoing kind of like funny, goofy attitude where it's like I don't really try and find the negative in life. I always try and find it positive at the end of the day. So it is. And like, I feel like we kind of live in a world today where it's like, man, the half the glass is half full and it's like, well, it's half empty. And I'm like, for me, it's always half full there. I'm going to find something where it's going to be a positive at the end of the day. But going on when I was saying with like my wife, it's like she's got to teach kids structure and like, you know, you have nap time, you this is when you eat. And it's like, I would not lead by example when it comes to that.

51:49 I'm eating when I want to eat, I'm going to go walk when I'm going to go walk, I'm going to go paint when I'm going to go paint. But like, I always run it by her and make sure I said, listen, I'm, I'm not going to be in bed tonight. I'm probably going to be working at the studio because there's a game tomorrow and everyone wants their cleats ready. And that's the thing. I have the most supportive wife in the world. Like I wouldn't be doing half this stuff with, with all my wife in my corner. So I always say she's my better half. And yeah, she's just, yeah, she's the best. That's awesome, man. Yeah, I and I can, I appreciate that. Is that specifically that line of work more than I ever have. I have a four year old right now and it's awesome, but it is it is a whole different way of like having to address situations and plan activities like in the classroom and stuff.

52:38 That's awesome man. Building on that thing though, of the do you feel then when you have parts of life that are that command structure or need, do you start to feel a little tight in those scenarios when you don't have the freedom to operate how you want? Yeah, I. I feel like part of it is I can zone in like I can zone like if there's a project where it definitely needs to be like this is a deadline, you got to make this deadline. Like I can, I could do that. I can zone in like I feel like I'm more of an adapter than anything. Like for most part of my life can be like chaotic. I do whatever I want, but the moment that I got a big project, I dial in, I make sure everyone is like they get what they're asking for. So it's it's, it's kind of weird. Like, I don't know, I'm just kind of all over the place with that sense.

53:28 But I'm also very organized with that too. So like for me, like I have a process when it comes, I think part of it too is the process where I can like, so if someone was going to like, hey, I'm looking for to get like custom shoes done. What's the routine? Like for me on top of my head is like, well, listen, this is if you're looking for some specific and you want to see a visual, I'll offer you a rendering service. So Ioffer them like this fee where it's like I'll draw and design stuff on the computer. You get as many renderings as you want once you get that design figured out, like dude, that's the one. That's what I want on my shoes. Perfect. Then it's like I asked for 1/2 down payment and then I always tell them like you're going to get your shoes between 6 to 8 weeks.

54:11 That's generally what the turn around time is. So like in that sense, I'm super structured like, but it's just a timeline. It's just like my timeline's chaotic, you know? Like I, this is my beehive brain. I love it. It's all over the place, you know? But I love it because. You're, you're talking directly through one of the most important skills in life is navigating the balance between structure, but adaptability and like, even through the lens of leadership, adaptive leadership is what calls out to me because there is, there aren't, there is no silver bullet answer, man. There's no, there's no like one way to address multiple situations. Everything is unique. And if you can ride the wave, man, you can then have that underlying like organization and that underlying path you would call it.

55:00 But at the same time, if you're coming up and there's a right turn, that's like, OK, there's something cool right there. OK, we're going to zip off for a little bit, but that's the thing. And. Like I embrace the chaos. Like I love that. Like I could do one thing one day and that different thing another day. And it's just really not like a set path. Like there's people that they need to wake up at 9:00, go to their job and then come back home at 5:00 live. Like it needs to be a routine for me. Like I feel like that's why I got burnt out when I worked in the corporate setting is because, yeah, it was a little chaos, but it was structure chaos where it's like you need to be in at this time and then you need to leave at this time and then you got to repeat it. Like for me, that was boring. Like it just got like, I didn't mind working hard. I just like, didn't like the over and over and over and over again on the same thing.

55:47 Yeah. So that's why to like, even when I do work, like, you know, it's nice that I can make up, I can paint shoes one day and then the next day it's like I'm painting on a canvas. And then it's like, that's why I always try and not stay in One Direction. So like when I call my business Forever Young Designs, it's literally it's a broad spectrum. Like I'm not just designing shoes, I'm doing graphic design. I'm doing painting on walls, like it's a little bit of everything. So. So you still do. Some graphic design work too. Yeah, a little bit. Not not a whole lot like when, when I implement my graphic design skills, like I work with, you know, twigs, beverage and channel. Yeah. So they're the best, like they're my, my business family.

56:30 That's why I'll, I'll go stop in there. Like I was saying, you know what, maybe I'll stop by and get some twig soda here pretty quick. But like they just, you know, they, they had me design their packages and stuff and do murals on their walls out in Shawno. And it's just been, that's why I really, really just love them because they always give me a unique project to work with, like it seems like yearly. So that's awesome. Yeah, you know, I had a flashback while you were talking about that in the in that lake rigid office atmosphere. Like if you were to describe my living hell, it is the last. Like say your work time is at 5 and like your work is done for the day. It doesn't pay to start a new project because like, you know, why dive into something for 20 minutes and then like, I'm a, I'm a get it done the whole thing type person. Same, same dude.

57:22 But I there's this one office atmosphere that I worked in that I won't mention, but it was this thing like if you like, and it wasn't punching a clock. It was a salary job, which always drove me nuts. But like, if you left that 20 minutes early, it was like, you know, the little office chatter. Oh my goodness. Where are they going? Talk about my living hell, dude. Because that is not efficient in any way shape or form. Because one, you're not talking about the times that I worked till 8:00 PM or I was there early or whatever. But on another on another thing, productivity and time aren't directly related in most ways, right? And.

58:06 Why would I spend this 20 minutes here watching a minute hand go right when OK I can re energize in a different way and then when the block of time calls for it, I'll do that thing? Yep, drove me nuts. I think that's. Just a crazy thing in the like the society we live in is that time is more valued than productivity. Like if you're in a work environment, people like that dude works 60 hours a week. It's like, but what is he doing in 60 hours? You know, like I can like there's, there's people I know that can work 60 hours, but then there's other people that I know that can work half that and get the same amount of work done. So I think that's often like an illusion for people to be like, well, how how long do you work for?

58:50 It's like that doesn't matter. Like for me, like I could get like 10 paintings done in a day if I really wanted to. There's some people it would take them months to do something like that, but it's like I actually like, and then this is the thing earlier in my art career when like work was slow, I challenged myself. I did a painting everyday and like I did, I think I got the day 1000. And then I was like, wow, yeah. So it was just whatever I could think of. Like I'm like, you know, even if it's a bad idea, I'm just going to paint it on a canvas, I'm going to paint it on a random item and then at least put it out there for the world. So it was like literally I like IA 1000 days. That's like just under three years. So I was doing a painting everyday for like 3 years. That's.

59:35 Wild man. But it, it honed in on my skill, you know, and then when it comes to like the time, like it's, it takes me less time to do a painting because I practice that much to like get to that point. It's like there there's a famous Bruce Lee quote. I can't remember exactly what it is, but like he fears the man that practices one kick 1000 times versus the dude that kicks 1000 times. You know, like it's just. It's like, I get that like that, you know, you can apply that to everyday life. So that definitely helped me in the long run when it came to productivity. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I've seen a couple like Bob Ross clips from back in the day where he like delivered in his damn.

1:00:16 Dude. Oh, Bob. The best we'll like, we'll sit. We were on a vacation last summer and we spent some of it watching Bob Ross because it like it's, it's just, I don't know, there's something that calls you in about it. But his thing was like, you know how he delivered everything so softly, nicely? His thing was, don't worry about it. The first one might take you 10 days, the second one might take you 3 days. The third one's going to take you 10 hours. And the next thing you know, they're all happy little accidents. That's literally what. It is. And then, and that's the funny part is because like being a kid, I never had like cable TV growing up. Ditto. So it was always like, and that's the thing, you go to school like you guys watch like SpongeBob or something. I'm like never had that.

1:00:57 Like I was watching PBS. I was watching Bob Ross and like before you go to school, like I turn on channel 32, you watch like Dennis the Menace and then like PBS was dragon tales. Like I I'm like in middle school watching dragon tales, like I don't care. It's a vibe, but it's like literally you. I had Bob Ross growing up and like to say that he influenced my art career could be a huge possibility. But like that's literally he's such a vibe. Like that's the vibe when I say positive attitude, that's what you need to be in life. So 100% world would be a great. Place I'll tell you what you have, pet. Squirrels I'm trying like my wife was like, well, maybe I so I and I told her this because like it was funny because I'll go like on TikTok and like they'll be. I was like, look at this video and there's a dude with a pet raccoon.

1:01:49 And I was like, in a in a scenario, I'm telling you this, this it's a possible situation. It we live out in a town called Shy Acton and the title is where nature begins. I said, if you were to see a baby raccoon by chance, and it was no mom insight, you have permission to bring into the house. So we could possibly raise it as our own. But and I literally had to look it up. I'm like, can you do that in Wisconsin? And she's like, and I told her I was like, yeah, you could do that in Wisconsin. So there might be a point in time where you have a baby raccoon in our house. Love that. Yeah. But like, Bob Ross was the same thing when he had the squirrels. Like, you know, I have a squirrel on his shoulder. I was like, dude, this guy is like, awesome. It's like energy.

1:02:32 It's the vibe that I'm striving for in life, you know, so. Yeah, who knows, man, Those things are programmed young. A lot of them for no same. Same scenario, though. I was the I was the no cable kid either. Yeah. Did your wife have cable growing up? Yeah, she. Did so this. Happens in my relationship constantly. My wife and I have been married almost 10 years now. I an IRA. Know what you're going to say I do when she brings. Up a show from back in the day, SpongeBob. It's all the time I'm like with like I'm like, what is that from? She's like SpongeBob. So then like I like paint and I'll have SpongeBob playing in the background and I'm like, you know what? It's kind of low key funny, you know, like just I play it so I can get her references down the line, you know.

1:03:15 So I mean, you had limited like, like what was playing during the day during the summer was Young and the Restless, like on our TV. And it was like, I heard that sound. So it was the opposite. So she would say references from SpongeBob and I have no idea. But then there was the young and, you know, the intro and it's. Oh yeah. She I was like, Oh my gosh, that's such nostalgia. She's like, what is that from? Yeah, I was like Young and the Restless. You don't what? You don't know Young and the Restless. Exactly. So like what she does for me with SpongeBob, it's the same thing with Young and the Restless with her. So yeah, it's just, it's just crazy where it's like, you know, and that's a thing too, where I always kind of shocked me where it's like, what could my creative path be in life if I had unlimited like television watching experiences? Like I would be painting more SpongeBob. Like for me, I always grew up on anime. So like Dragon Ball Z was always like I remember going to Buddy's house who had cable and I I watched Dragon Ball Z for the first time.

1:04:17 I was like, this is the best thing I've ever watched. And I'd be like, mom, can I go to my cousin's this weekend just to watch like the late night Adult Swim Dragon Ball Z. So but like I always say, like anime had such a huge role in my art career because that was like the a lot of things I was drawing, I was drawing like characters from the show and then other animated series. Like it definitely. It's kind of crazy, like what's out there that can really inspire you. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So. Man, it's so visual. Yeah, it's so so I don't know a ton about anime, but like from what I I've seen, obviously most people have seen it. It's very there is an artistic element through the creation. It is.

1:05:00 And it's so advanced nowadays too. There was a recent movie that just came out and it's Demon Slayer, the movie it's called. But they were saying the creator of that show, so they call each storyline kind of like an arc. So like that specific arc they were highlighting in that movie. And he wanted to wait until the animation was at the right point in technology where it was capable of creating it. He had it planned 10 years ago and then he finally the technology was there. But like there's like an explosion scene, but it's slow motion and each frame is like hand drawn and it's like just crazy how like the wood will like cave out. And I just think that's so crazy to even have that mindset to be like, I want it done right.

1:05:49 So I want to wait until like he waited 10 years to make that masterpiece, you know, And that's a, that's just another creative mind just thinking like those little endless possibilities right there. That's awesome. Is there anything, are there any projects for you like that right now that are like not maybe not to that extent, but like anything that's festering in your mind creatively that like you want to bring to life, but you don't have the perfect path there? Good question. Yeah, honestly, so like when it comes to like, customizing shoes and cleats, the one thing I'm seeing now is people actually sewing, like sewing leather together, and then they attach it to the shoe in the cleat. And I just think that's so fascinating where they create their own template and they recreate, recreate an actual shoe.

1:06:36 So like when the Bengals came to Green Bay this past year to like Lambeau Field, I had AI delivered quiche to TJ Slayden at the Paper Valley Hotel in Appleton. And we just had a conversation and he's like, listen, man, the reason why I like I love going through you is because you're a painter. Like you have that artistic ability where like there's artists that can like painoclete, but then there's other artists that can like sew stuff. And they said like the artists at the Bengals have that does a lot of their work is like a customizer when it comes to sewing fabric together and attaching it to the cleat. So I always like I want to have the time to figure that out just to experiment, you know, because, but like, it's one of those things where like I feel like you could advance even more to what it is right now.

1:07:25 Like I can wait a little while longer to, to come up with something cooler. Like for me, I'm always trying to strive to do something that no one else has done. So it's like I've attached like I think like the one year I did cleats for someone, I attach like grass on them to make it look like, yeah. So I'm like, you know, no one's telling me I can't do it. I'm going to experiment, see if it works. Like, granted, I should be trying it on like maybe not in NFL players cleats and have it fail on national TV, but like, yeah, I just kind of roll with it, you know? So yeah, yeah. But when when it comes to projects, I guess like there's nothing really at the moment. It's just more so like when it comes to me, I'll just kind of like sit on that idea until maybe it's the right time to do it now.

1:08:13 So yeah. It's interesting thinking I I'm I really clung on to the statement about you saying like, I wonder what my inspiration could have been with more access. And I don't even really know where to take that. But I think that's a fascinating like even way of just looking at things because, you know, we we all experience life through this singular bubble, like our singular set of eyes have this unique experience to now. And I don't know, I just think that's a fascinating thing to think about. Like if I would have done or had this, would this happen, Zach? Well. And I always say experiences mold the person that you become eventually in life. Absolutely.

1:08:57 And like, and that's the thing and like that's why I'm really open minded with everyone's situation because it's like you just never know what someone goes through and like they have their own experiences that shaped them into the person they are. So like for me, like growing up without cable, like you never know what, maybe that puts me in a different situation than I am today in my art career. But it's like you can't kind of sit and wonder and have that bother you. It's just a cool idea just to maybe think about Noodle. Around on. Yeah, yeah. Often times I look and, you know, I don't even know that I minded then the the worst part about it was probably just like, you know, hearing people talk about shows that you didn't know about because that's such a communal thing, isn't it? Yeah, so maybe that.

1:09:42 But I still never mattered that much. And now I actually most of the time look upon it fondly that I wasn't behind the TV all the time. You know, I spent a ton of time outside playing and gauging and, and it's weird because now I think about how I parent have the four year old, we have cable, but it's like you can watch 2 shows, dude. And then we're going to do something else. So, you know, that's a weird thing to think about because then where who knows where he's going to find value, right? I I look at it from a brain development standpoint because he's only four, but who knows what I'll do at 10 when it's different, right? Because. Who am I to say what's one thing's better than the other, exactly?

1:10:26 And that's all just like it's subjective at the end of the day, because there's a lot of people with their opinion like this, Oh, I think this is going to work better than this or vice versa, you know, But it's like at the end of the day, like even, you know, my wife being an educator, catering like, you know, raising kids at school too, It's like you just got to make sure you have a positive impact on someone's life. And it don't matter what it is like, you just got to make sure it's in a positive direction. And it's meant to be the the I'm trying to find the right word for this. But like at the bottom of your heart, you want what's best for that kid. So at the end of the day, you'll do whatever you can. You just make sure you provide them with whatever or they need in life.

1:11:09 So and if you take. That mindset to just life in general, it's so impactful. Like, I mean, you mentioned your professor at Saint Norbert earlier, you. Didn't mention what he. Taught you, you mentioned the experience that you felt with him. That's what matters. So I'm an educator too of my quote UN quote normal job. And like, I can't count how many times I've said in the classroom, like I, I, you're not going to remember everything we talked about in this when we talked about marketing, but you're not going to remember the XS and OS. But I can like if I go to work every day with the intention that they're going to remember the thing you just said, that they're going to remember how I made them feel and the path that I helped them walk.

1:11:52 The rest kind of comes with it. But that's the thing. And I think like when it comes to like, even for me, like I want to be as authentic as possible. And I feel like an authentic person will leave more of an impact on a person who this is what's in the textbook. And you just tell them what this fact is. You know, I feel like, and you also have to have a passion and love for it. So like I was or my wife would always tell me I was like, well, it's not a really good paying job. I was like, language, who gives you shit about the money, you know, because money at the end of the day, like you can't take that with you when you're gone, You know, you're going to like, you don't know what's going to happen after this life. But but for me, like I just feel like we have one life, You know, you, you should live it to the fullest. You should live and do what you want to do and like you're doing something that you love at the end of the day and you're going to be happy at the end of the day, like 20 years from now. Like, and I always tell her that's such a cool thing to like kind of reflect on like think about like when you're retired and then you're going to have like a like once a kid is now an adult could walk up to you and be like, thank you for the impact that you, you helped me.

1:12:55 Like I do like my elementary teacher, like her name was Misses Beecher. Like I remember like she would let me draw during like lunchtime and recess in her class. And like, I always like was so grateful for that because like, it really did like I, I enjoyed that time, you know, And I, she just retired like last year and I had to like messenger and I was like, just thank you for everything. Thank you for like the path you let led me in life. And I just like, I'm forever grateful for that experience to like guide me here. So yeah. And you think? About the that's that's really resembling to that point, actually, because that space for you was important at that time, because there were some days that that was probably an escape and there were some days that that was probably a reinvigorator when you needed it.

1:13:41 It is. Yeah, and I was, I was a shy kid growing up too. I kind of reserved and kept to myself. And it's just kind of like some people can like be in a room and socially interact with everyone. For me, like kind of my escape and was like being in my own world and just drawing, you know, that was my socializing, I guess, you know, So I, and that's the thing I was, and I'm super grateful for like having a space where I could do that, you know, at school, you know, and someone who like literally would tell my mom, like, yeah, he's going to be an artist when he grows up. There's no doubt about it. Don't know how it's going to happen, but he will do something art related for sure. So it's kind of cool.

1:14:24 And then like even looking at old papers, like there was like a fifth grade assignment, my mom's like, look at what I found. And it said, what do you want to be when you grow up? An artist. And I was like, what it said. So it's kind of cool. Like if I can go back in time and like we did a little guy. I wasn't really a little guy back then, but you know, that's a gift. In itself, dude, that's a, that's a gift in itself because the, the path to finding true satisfaction, especially through your work, is really winding and understanding. Even what you find satisfaction out of as a fifth grader is a true gift because then when you set your sights on something, we are and nothing good happens overnight, going back to the hard work thing.

1:15:11 But you can meander in that direction and that's a gift, dude. And I was really like I and that's a crazy thing because like everyone always talked about like bull, if you go to college, what are you going to do it? And like I always just found it weird that people didn't know what they wanted to do when they were going to school. Like I always had the mindset I'm going to do some art related, whatever that may be. It was, it was a matter of deciding am I going to be a fine art studio major or am I going to be like a graphic design? You know, and like even my professors told me you're like, you're just wasting your time with the fine art Rd. Like you, you already have that pre established, like you have the basic techniques that we like.

1:15:52 This is just going to be rinse and repeat for you. So if you just do graphic design, it's a different thing, like a good expand, a different kind of thing that you didn't know before. And like, thank God that professor told me that because like it really did open like even for like customizing shoes, like if if I didn't know half the stuff in graphic design, I wouldn't be able to like customize shoes visually on the computer to show people right the. Renderings and stuff you were talking about earlier, yeah, and that's and. And that's cool in itself. And I feel like it that's a huge selling point for people is like, if I can go on a computer and visual, like it's one thing to sell an idea to someone, if you could show them visually what it's going to look like, then they're all in at the end of the day.

1:16:34 So it's like, it's funny, I'll get a message and be like, do you think you do a few renderings for me? And I was like, yeah, we'll get it done. So like I'm literally, I'll have 12 cleats on one page and each one will be customized look a certain way. So like some will be like lightning bolts on them. And then the other ones are like they called off white shoes. I don't know if you're a sneaker head or anything, but there's a variation of what a sneaker already looks like. So it's like the the ideas that they send me, they just always say like, I want to see a visual, yeah. And make it happen, yeah. That's so cool, dude. I love, I love talking about the journey, man. Yeah, the the, the journey and, and like the, the, the places that we cling on to in life that we deem as, you know, important to us. And that, you know, going back to your point earlier, the the decisions we make and the things to do the things we do lead us to the experiences you mentioned earlier that that mold us as a person.

1:17:36 Exactly. So it's really easy to feel that we don't have control at times. But really what you do have control is that of this moment. Yeah. And even if you feel like you don't, all you got to do is stop, take a deep breath and re evaluate. That's it. Like this, like our conversation. I just like I knew this was a conversation. It was going to go philosophical at some point. Because at the end of the day, like every creative, every crazy artist ever, like I think like Andy Warhol, Salvador Dali, those are the just the most eccentric people you'd ever see. Like Dolly had a pet aardvark, you know, like what what experience happened to make him like be walking around like New York with a bark, you know, and then Andy Warhol is like, yeah, I'm going to paint soup cans.

1:18:21 Like what? Like how does that happen? You know, I just think it's like at the end of the day, I think it's just evaluating your life and seeing how you can apply it in your in your work as an artist. So I say everything that I do is just based on circumstance and experience in life. So like I've always like when we were talking about that earlier when like one phase ends in a new chapter begins, like when I retired from like playing semi pro ball, I was just like, man, I just don't know what I'm going to do now. But like I still have that. I feel in ways like kind of a brotherhood where I'm customizing cleats for a team. So it's like I never really left the football space. I just transitioned into a new position where it's like I'm just complete artist for a lot of players. So it's kind of cool where I I still feel like I'm part of the team at at times, you know?

1:19:14 So I feel like the transition from retirement to go into something that still football related is pretty much the same thing. And maybe. Subliminally, your experiences led to you. You know, we talked about life's happenstance earlier, but also we pull some levers, too. Maybe subliminally your experiences LED you to maybe even searching that out because, like, you forecasted that feeling. Yeah. Because it's certainly true. I mean, how many, how many times? I can't remember the dude's name right now, but how many times does Aaron Rodgers shouted out the equipment guy for the Packers so many times. Like, it's part of it. Yeah. I. Jokingly told my parents I was like, if Packers win the Super Bowl this year, I am going to campaign to get my ring.

1:19:59 Like I feel like I I should get a ring for being part of the team like branded like, you know, like if if we would have made a Super Bowl like players wearing cost like that would be one thing that like I wouldn't even care about the ring. It would just be like, man, my cleats are on the mainstage to like the most watched like television program in the world. Like that would be insane. Like that's the dream. I think like I want the Packers to go to the Super Bowl. I want to see like my work out on the big stage and then at the end of the day. I want him to hoist the Lombardi Trophy, you know, that's that's why I wanted to happen this year. But we'll be patient with that after. Seeing how the Seahawks defense played, I was kind of glad we didn't even make it because we, we couldn't have stood up to that at that point.

1:20:42 They played out of their mind. They're they're. Very, very good team. And like, it was cool seeing. So like, I went to school with a buddy and his uncle is John Schneider. OK. Yeah. So it's cool to see, like, natives from the Green Bay Area actually, you know, won a Super Bowl and stuff. And I just think that's it's like such a cool that there's Wisconsin roots here, you know, so we. We, we make football people, dude. That's what it is. We. Make football people 100% yeah. Offensive. Lineman in general, like I remember like growing up as a kid until high school, it was like, all right, if Wisconsin's top offense line group is going to be a top five pick or a first round pick, either way, Joe Thomas and all those guys you know, and he's he's farming.

1:21:24 Beef now have you seen that he's I think I saw some like. He's like signing signatures on packages and dropping her off to locations. I was like, man, that's so rad. Like when it's all said and done, you just like, do what you want to do. And yeah, yeah, I've been thinking. About shooting him Adm to try to get him on the pod because he's back in Wisconsin just raising beef. That's so cool. But you're right man there and it's too bad that it's it's not really that anymore. But for the longest time like it man, if if not don't even talk about Wisconsin the country. If you were, you know, blue chip offensive lineman you wanted to be a badger. Oh, that's what. It is for sure. I was like, and even running backs now to like, I, I still think we're in that like that time in the team where it's like if you go to Wisconsin, be a running back, you're you're going to get looks in the NFL or you're going to be like a first round talent.

1:22:14 Like, I was just, it was crazy because someone shared, like, who were the best running backs each season from like 2010 to, like now. Yeah, Jonathan Taylor on there and Melvin Gordon. I think Monte Ball was on there, too. And some good years. People forget about that. Very good. Years and like like I even remember like John Clay like John Clay was a guy that was like he was so good for the Badgers. You know I just it's just like offense, alignment and running backs. That's where we were blessed to have, you know, those positions. Be a lead for sure. Yeah, it's. Funny my my one of my best friends in the world. He's my college roommate. Like, I've known him for a long time. He played against.

1:22:54 He tells me the story about playing against John Clay. He grew up in South. Oh, no, kid. Yeah. And he's like he he's got this line that he says his coach said something about, you know, we're used to playing, seeing guys that are going to play on Saturdays. That guy's going to play on Sunday. Just talks about just getting just trounced by this and just being a different level of human. Yeah. Well, my cousin, like he played at so he went to junior college Rd. So like he waited a while and he went to Northern Iowa Community College and it's crazy. This is like, so are you familiar with Marshall Yonda? That sounds familiar. But not immediately. So he played like. I think it was like 14 seasons with like the Ravens. He was like an all pro offense.

1:23:36 OK, yes, he'll probably do know one of the best interior line in the like, ever play the game so. Junior. College, my cousin was on the same team as him and they were like roommates in a way. So I remember like going down there and like watching that game and there was a safety on a blitz and I saw him like the safety tried to jump him and he picked this dude up and helicopter them and the guy just laying face down on the ground. And I told my cousin like, I've never seen, like I was in high school, I've never seen any football player do anything like that. And then like his brother, who was like sitting with us was like, yeah, he was telling me about him. That guy is going to play Sundays.

1:24:16 And this is at junior college. And now you're like, you Fast forward and like, I think he should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. That's just my opinion, though. But like, he's going to be in the Hall of Fame one of these days. But it's just crazy seeing a guy like that and then having them tell you like he's going to be the real deal. And then like the next season he went to Iowa, dominated at Iowa, and then he got drafted. I don't know if it was like the third or fourth round, but like ended up having the most amazing career for the Ravens. So that's. Awesome dude. That's actually a perfect way to cap off our conversation too, because that happens at at different levels, right? Like we we talked about that one in a different way because of the ultimate career that the person ended up having.

1:24:58 But think about the 5th grade teacher, man, the 5th grade teacher was forecasting that for you to your parents. And like, the path you're on is just as important, and the ceiling is just as that's sick to think about it is. Like I just, it's like I even told my wife even just now, like the, the, the potential in the ceiling is like the Sky's the limit at the end of the day, you know? So I just think like where I'm at in life right now, it's like, man, what's what's in store next week even, you know, like I just want to keep growing as a person. Like whether that's in my art, that's my family life at the end of the day, I just want to grow and be a better and a good person to everyone in this world.

1:25:41 So that's sick. Yeah, well, thanks for chatting, man. Keep on the path. You're doing something right. No, I appreciate. You having me on the show. Like I said, I get a little nervous sometimes talking to people, but I had a fantastic time with you today. I never would have. Guessed. Dude. I never would have guessed. Most of the time I can pinpoint it. I worked in radio for a long time, so I could always see the beads of sweat start off. Yeah, when the mic got cracked. Oh, you didn't see the pitch? Right now they are. They are dredged. It's a swimming pool right there for sure. We're going to get awesome. To turn the heater on, right? Yeah, don't do that. I wore the darkest shirts so no one can see the sweat stains. All right, man, I appreciate. You. I appreciate you, man. Thank you. That was a great.