Shifrah Morgan - Cult Stories, Abuse, Trauma, and Life After the Cult - Ep. #52

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What's up friends, Welcome back
to Rooted Wisconsin.

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Appreciate you for clicking
another episode.

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Grateful to have you here.
Buckle up.

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Wildest episode of Rooted
Wisconsin shift from Morgan born

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into a cult based out of
Shawnee, Wisconsin, right in our

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backyard, Little Shawnee
Wisconsin, the story she details

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thoroughly.
She lines up her whole virtual

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life with us and some of the
craziest things you will ever

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hear happening right in our
backyard in Shawnell, Wisconsin.

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Sexual abuse, physical abuse,
child abuse, mental abuse, the

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wild, wild stories that you have
to hear to even like, you can't

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even conceptualize these things.
You can't make them up.

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Just crazy.
I just have to say that I

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appreciate Shifra taking the
time and being able to walk us

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through it.
And I think there's a tremendous

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value in it.
And of course, it took a

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tremendous amount of strength
for her to sit in the chair for

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nearly three hours.
Longest episode of Rude

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Wisconsin today and relive all
of this trauma.

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And all it is, is awareness.
We like it's awareness of what

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was happening in our backyard.
Unbelievable to hear.

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And that's all I can say.
I, I can't line up every story

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for you.
I, I can't tell you anything

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else.
All you have to do is listen and

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hear the crazy things, the crazy
hand of cards that shipper was

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dealt.
Amazing.

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Now she's a mom, she's a
business owner and the things

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she had to face, no one should
have to.

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So I'm going to let her words
speak to him.

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Grateful as always for our
sponsors.

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Appreciate Ryan and the crew at
Riverside Pizzeria and our

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exciting new sponsors at
Carouser.

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Come tailgate with us on
September 11th.

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Veteran owned business.
Feels weird talking about

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something jovially when jovially
when I was just telling you

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about the episode.
But that's life, right?

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And watching how Shifra handled
it makes me think I can.

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She handled it with such grace
and poise.

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So come tailgate with us at
Lambeau on September 11th.

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We'll see you there.
But before we get then you have

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to hear this stuff.
Tell your friends awareness is

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key.
And let's make, let's try to

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make sure things like this don't
happen on our watch because it's

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truly unbelievable.
So without further ado, shift

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from Morgan.
So have the ways we try to live.

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Your life has been, you know,
you've had several stops where

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you've probably had to take that
year.

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Yeah.
But that's, you know, that's

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some of why the emotion probably
comes out when you think about

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it, because it has to seem
almost surreal at times.

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Yes, yes.
Well, I just think about where I

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came from.
Born into a cult, not knowing

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anything, getting kicked out of
the cult at a very young age.

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I think when I initially ran
away, I was 13 years old, sent

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away to live with my oldest
sister when I was about 12.

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So that's so we're right around
12 was when that whole process

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started.
Let's start entering it though,

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too, because you said you were
born in Iron Mountain, but then

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you moved to to Shawno.
Yeah.

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So like we're the first five
years in the in the cult tour,

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did you?
Yes, they were OK.

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Yes, yeah.
So how the OK.

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So the Kolka was in the main
base was in Shawno, Wisconsin,

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like that's where the
headquarters or the compound or

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where everybody met up.
But when my family got into it

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was when the cult leader, I'm
just going to call him Rama.

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That's his first name.
It's not his name anymore, but

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that's how everybody knows it
is.

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The Rama cult, the first
original name was the disciples

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of the Lord Jesus Christ, but
nobody knew him as that.

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They just knew him as the Rama
cult.

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So I'm just going to call him
Rama.

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His first name, before he
changed it three times was Rama.

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Actually let me Rama Bahara.
That was his original name.

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So anyway, he would go around
and speak to different colleges,

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to different like Pentecostal
churches and those kind of

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things.
He came over from India as a

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foreign exchange student, I
believe in the early 1970s and

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anyway met some lady, started
dating her, ended up marrying

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her in Minnesota.
She was from Minnesota.

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They went over and started doing
missionary work, I believe in

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some other country.
I don't know if they went back

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to India and were doing
missionary work, but they were

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doing missionary work and then
they ended up coming back to the

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United States and they pretty
much continued their missionary

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work or whatever.
And that was going around

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speaking to different things or
whatever.

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And that's how he first crossed
paths with your family in in one

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of these speaking engagements or
something.

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At a Pentecostal church, my
grandfather and his whole

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family, they were members are
like went around to different

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Pentecostal churches to like
listen or whatever and they were

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pretty religious.
They heard him speak and pretty

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much like the whole clan or the
whole family, two brothers and

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like the sister and them all
kind of started going and

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listening to wherever he was
speaking at.

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At the same time, he was also
doing colleges and he went to

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the University of Minnesota, I
believe, and that or not, not

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the the University of Madison,
sorry.

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And that is where my biological
mother and her friend Carol, who

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ended up becoming my aunt, were
going to college and they

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started following him from
meeting him through that kind of

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thing, through that.
So eventually he got a so you

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have.
Two different points still like

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yeah.
So he went.

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Grandparents in Iron Mountain
and then your biological mom in

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Madison.
Correct, correct.

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And he would go and travel in
Minnesota and there was actually

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quite a few like the beginning
members who kind of had their

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own little church and got him
like kind of pulled him into

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that leader status, so to speak,
and really gave him the, I guess

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ego to push him to really start
the whole like church kind of

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thing.
So.

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At that time you would say it
was like at that for it was more

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religious based than it wasn't
like a full on cult, no.

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No, he was just going around
speaking.

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Met a couple people in Minnesota
who were like like part of a

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church and were like deacons and
that kind of thing in their like

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little world.
And he got involved with them.

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And then he started going to
different people's homes of the

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people who were like coming to
him every week.

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So like my grandparents were
coming to see him like wherever

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he was at.
So they opened up their house in

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Iron Mountain for him to come
there.

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So everybody who there was
following him could all come to

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one place instead of having to
go like meet at and he would.

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Come preach.
In their house.

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So he would go preach at their
house and they would have these

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big gatherings of all these
people who would come to like

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see him preach.
And apparently there were

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miracles done.
My biological mother will talk

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about a miracle if she had like
poor eyesight and she was able

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to see again or, you know, see
well and didn't need her

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glasses.
There's a couple of their

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different things that we have
heard, so-called miracles that

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happened.
But anyway, that's how that got

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started.
And that was then this was pre

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you existing.
Pre me existing.

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Got it.
Yes, that is how my biological

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parents met.
And then God came down and

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showed him that Randy and Sarah
should get married.

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And voila, they got married.
And as the years passed, eleven

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of us were born.
And so at the beginning, when

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all this was going on, they
would just go to Iron Mountain

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and kind of preach every
weekend.

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And so then they bought the
house in Shawno or the property

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in Shawno.
As things progressed, the

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members got together and bought
this property.

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And so then everybody started
doing the meetings and stuff at

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the compound in Shawno.
And that I want, I don't

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honestly, I don't know how long
it was before they bought the

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property in Shawnell between
doing the meetings in Iron

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Mountain.
I'm not sure.

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I'm not 100% sure.
I don't know if it was like 2

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years, three years, I'm not
sure.

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It wasn't a very long period of
time.

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I think when my grandparents met
him, my biological father was in

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his teens and he got married
when he was like I think he was

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1918 or 19 when he got married.
So, and by the time they got

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married or by the time, I want
to say the first or second child

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came along, the property and
Shawna was already bought and

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and we were traveling every
weekend to Shawna, OK, to the

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compound, even though we lived
in our, you know, when we lived

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in Iron Mountain.
Sure.

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Which which one in in the order
are you like of the 11?

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Or 5th.
You're 5th.

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And yes, I have two older
brothers and two older sisters.

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OK, so I'm just trying to get
the timeline in my mind of like

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how that worked out.
So you would like you then.

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You lived in Iron.
You were fifth in line.

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You lived in Iron Mountain, Yes,
until you were.

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About five?
Yeah, about 5.

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OK, so then that we was still.
So then I mean, that's that's

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small to remember things.
But if your remembrance at that

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time was it, was it
transitioning to feeling cultish

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already?
I would say the real transition

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happened.
I'm trying to think of what year

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it was.
I was small, I was OK.

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So I would say the real cult
transition happened.

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Well, no, I can't say that
because I was just talking to my

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uncles and they said that from
the very beginning.

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It was very cultish.
Oh yeah, I'm sure it.

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I'm sure he didn't just snap his
fingers.

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Yeah, but we're.
Going to do things a little.

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Differently it turned from very
community family based to

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authoritarian like very being.
You have to stand up when I come

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in the room.
You have to say yes brother, no

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brother, you have to or men and
women are separated.

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Children are now no longer like
really allowed to partake with

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their mothers and fathers on the
weekends that we were like

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separated.
And I would say that probably

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happened right when I was like,
I was young, I had pigtails, so

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like 3-4 years old.
And that all happened because

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somebody died and he used that
as a shift because he died

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because he was being sinful and
we were not allowed to be sinful

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like that.
So he had to up the thing to

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make sure that we weren't being
so sinful.

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Because the reason why Thor died
was because he was thinful

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sinful.
It had nothing to do with the

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fact that he was forced to drive
from work to the cult to

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complete like some stupid task
that he had put on and he was

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literally sleep deprived and
working his booty off and.

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He died in a car accident.
Or something.

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Yeah.
And it was due to being tired

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and falling asleep at the wheel.
And it was all due to Rama

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telling him, no, get your butt
here, you'd you have something

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the Lord wants you to do.
So that was when the shift

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started and and if he used that
as leverage, who knows, maybe

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maybe he read a book that was
like, here's how to lead a cult

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or something like that.
You don't know you know I.

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So, you know, I think from the
very beginning he had to have

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some kind of classes or some
kind of training because, you

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know, I say that, but I don't
know.

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There's so many cults out there
that you have no idea about.

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It's really, truly amazing once
you dig into it.

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How many cults are out there?
So that's why I was so that's

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why I was so surprised when your
video came across my TikTok feed

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because I like, I mean, I moved
away, but northeast Wisconsin, I

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spent my formative years here
until I was 18.

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And then I, you know, I haven't
moved that far away.

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Yeah.
And like, I can't remember

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exactly what your first words
were in the video, but it was

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like something about a cult in
Shawno.

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And I was like, well, OK, my
feed's a little close to, to us

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to home right now.
And then I watch and I ended up

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watching them all.
And that's how I knew we had to

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00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,320
have this conversation.
But that makes so much sense

228
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,520
because like with control, you
have to control the narrative

229
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,600
too, right?
All the way to why?

230
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,440
Like I caught something you said
in there.

231
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,080
They were separating children
from parents.

232
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,760
Yes, to control the narrative,
correct.

233
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:45,640
Right.
Correct.

234
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,160
And that was also the time when
things started, Like, you

235
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,520
weren't allowed to like, really
talk to one another.

236
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,160
So like the kids weren't allowed
to like gossip or talk.

237
00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,760
You know, like if a bunch of
kids were sitting next to one

238
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,880
another, you couldn't talk.
You had to stay quiet.

239
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,160
So like if you were doing jobs
or like one of the jobs that he

240
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,400
had us do, because there were so
many kids, you had to find

241
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,960
something for them to do.
So we never mowed the grass with

242
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,880
a lot more.
We always use scissors.

243
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,000
And you would just see like 20
or 30 kids out there with

244
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,440
scissors and you, we would all
be cutting grass.

245
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,680
No joke.
No joke.

246
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,440
That's one of the fun jobs that
we really enjoyed because we got

247
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,360
to be outside and we didn't have
to be praying and sitting on our

248
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,560
knees.
So we really enjoyed that We

249
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,680
wanted to cut grass with our
scissors.

250
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,040
We were very proud of our
scissors.

251
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,440
And when we heard those words,
we would run and grab them.

252
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,880
And that was something that we
really enjoyed because honestly,

253
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:49,960
we could move around and, you
know, so yes, you weren't

254
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,520
allowed to talk.
And once he found or realized

255
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,600
that there was a small click
going on, he would somehow

256
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:03,920
figure out a way to get you on a
job or somewhere close to him so

257
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,600
he could buddy buddy with you
and then figure out what some of

258
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,720
your secrets were and then get
you each to turn on one another

259
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,000
or make one another think that
you would snitch on one another.

260
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,320
So even though you were in a
community, you were not in a

261
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,640
community.
You were very much isolated.

262
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,640
Like he'd come to you and say,
oh, or he'd go to another kid

263
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,560
and say, oh, Schiffer told me
that you spoke while you were

264
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,280
cutting the grass over.
Correct, correct.

265
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,120
OK, so give the people like an
idea.

266
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,280
How many people are there at
this time?

267
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,760
Like OK, you said 20 or 30 kids
could be snipping grass with

268
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,120
scissors.
How many people are there?

269
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,920
OK, at this time I could not
give you a number.

270
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,680
And this was at the compound in
Chong Chong.

271
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,760
Yes, OK, yes.
So they don't all live on the

272
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,240
compound.
They live in all different

273
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,800
states.
They live in Minnesota,

274
00:16:54,800 --> 00:17:01,080
Minneapolis, NC and they travel
every weekend and they get there

275
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,920
Friday night and they don't
leave until he gives them

276
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,560
permission to leave on Sunday
night.

277
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:13,040
It could be midnight, 1:00.
Now I am going to say when I'm

278
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,839
saying these things, this is how
it was when I was there and this

279
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,680
is how it was from everybody
that I've kind of spoken to.

280
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,480
But things he changes things as
they go on and he's older now,

281
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,960
so I don't know if he physically
releases them like he used to

282
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,920
back in the day when I was
younger and he was physically

283
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,440
there.
I have heard that he doesn't

284
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,160
really drive or travel to the
compound anymore.

285
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:44,200
He does lives or you know, he's
on live or whatever Skype or

286
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,440
whatever they use.
I don't know what they use, but

287
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,320
whatever they use for him to do
the preaching or whatever it is

288
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,200
on the weekends, OK.
So how long ago was it with like

289
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,120
how long not to when you left,
but like the story you're just

290
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:59,320
telling about cutting the grass
with scissors when you were a

291
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:00,080
kid?
Like what?

292
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,360
What time frame was this?
Well, that would have been in

293
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,200
the 1990s because I was born in
1982.

294
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,200
So it's been in the 1990s and I
would say all the way up through

295
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,280
like 2000.
And I know for sure 2012 two

296
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,920
thousand and like 14, that was
still very much the case.

297
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,840
But from what I understand, he
has gotten quite older.

298
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:31,120
I guess he is in his 80s.
He might even be in his 90s now,

299
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,200
I'm not sure.
Let's see, he was born in.

300
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,160
Just trying to it's.
It's yeah.

301
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:43,040
He was born in April 1st, 1940.
OK, so you know I'm not good at

302
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,040
math.
I'm not sure how old that makes

303
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,400
them.
Well, 40 would be 60 until the

304
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:54,720
year 2026 or 86 or 85, but it's
kind of they're managing to,

305
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,120
it's a hard story to tell,
right?

306
00:18:56,120 --> 00:19:00,160
Because you have your experience
solely and then you have the

307
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,360
existence of the call, correct.
So I'm just trying to make sure

308
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,520
all the times line up so I can
keep things straight in my mind.

309
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,800
So then, OK, so now continue on
from cutting grass with

310
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,640
scissors, OK.
How does that continue to evolve

311
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,960
and how does your like as you
grow and mature and start to

312
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,120
realize some things like how
does that continue to develop?

313
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,600
Well, OK, so I would say before
that all kind of started

314
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,840
transitioning before the dot
Thor died.

315
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,240
It was very community like we
would sit around a our bowls to

316
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,440
eat.
We would like really like we

317
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,480
would see other kids and we
would pull like the other kids

318
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,360
over a call, come sit with us
during the meeting or whatever,

319
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,880
come over here and you know that
kind of stuff.

320
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,400
But like the food control was
already in place.

321
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,560
He had a big thing with food
control.

322
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,400
So you weren't allowed to eat
unless like, he gave you

323
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,840
permission to eat and he would.
That was everybody.

324
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,440
That was everybody, yes, unless
you were a baby and you were

325
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,880
nursing then you know, the moms
fed you or whatever.

326
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,160
And I think I, I would say right
around the first year.

327
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,080
By the time I can really under
like remember whatever, it was

328
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,400
different for my older siblings
because they were allowed to be

329
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,480
carried.
By the time I came around, you

330
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,200
were not allowed to be carried.
So you did not see a mom

331
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,960
carrying a baby.
You know what I mean?

332
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,360
Like after like a year and a
half those kind of things.

333
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:34,560
So like it slowly progressed
like those kind of things, but

334
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,080
the food control was already in
the way you dressed was already

335
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,840
in the way you prayed was
already in.

336
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:49,240
Those kind of things were
already like in and I would say,

337
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,520
well, let me finish telling my
grandparents story and that will

338
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,360
kind of explain the split even
further on or earlier on.

339
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,520
So my grandparents ended up not
getting divorced, but my

340
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,840
grandmother left and would no
longer go to the cult or to the

341
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,840
meetings or anything.
And my grandfather was a die

342
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:20,000
hard like he thought Rama was
God like incarnated or whatever.

343
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,680
And he had the ear of God really
believed that.

344
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,520
And my grandfather was a very,
very he wanted to do everything

345
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,520
so that we he got into heaven
like that was like his like

346
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,200
thing or whatever.
So he really got sucked into

347
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,400
like this Rama character.
My grandmother on the other

348
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:47,520
hand, did not get sucked in and
they had already bought in the

349
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:54,920
property in Shawnell and one
weekend she had been having some

350
00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:00,000
medical issues and had been
bleeding really bad and he

351
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,880
wouldn't give them permission to
go to the doctor.

352
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,040
You needed to pray about it.
God would solve it and take care

353
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,120
of it while she prayed really
hard.

354
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,560
And she was still bleeding
through towels and having a very

355
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,960
difficult time.
And so I don't remember the

356
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,720
exact full story of all the
details that went on, but

357
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,440
eventually she pretty much said
screw you, I'm going and taking

358
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:32,560
this and this isn't OK and quit
going to like the compound.

359
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,920
Pretty much all the kids
followed her except for my

360
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,160
biological father.
He continued to go to the

361
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,680
compound or to the meetings and
everything with my grandfather.

362
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:53,520
So I want to say the first two
children, like my two older

363
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:59,000
sisters were born or my older
sister was born right around

364
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,880
that time that that all
happened.

365
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:10,560
And yeah.
And so that really split the

366
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:18,200
whole biological father side and
pretty much that he started

367
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,240
cutting, if you were going to
the meetings, you were cutting

368
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:26,080
your family out of your life and
you were not allowed to have

369
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,160
outside influences.
So at the same time, my

370
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,000
biological mother stopped
corresponding with her mother,

371
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,680
stopped corresponding with her
younger brother.

372
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:44,800
Her older brother passed away
due to, I want to say it was

373
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,560
cancer.
Her father died from alcohol,

374
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,160
alcoholism slash cancer.
And so she was in like, turmoil,

375
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,000
like, you know, she was really,
like, not in a good mental

376
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,040
state.
And she really remembers the

377
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,920
alcoholism and all of that
stuff.

378
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,280
And that was your biological
mother.

379
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,880
Yeah, yeah.
So she was in the process of

380
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,280
cutting them all out of their
lives.

381
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,840
She was trying ohh, she was
trying to cut family out to her

382
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,920
stay in the side.
Yes, OK, got yes.

383
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,960
So it was her, your biological
father and then your grandfather

384
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,800
that still wanted to be in,
correct.

385
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,000
But your grandmother said I'm
out and took some of the kids.

386
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,640
With all the kids but my
biological father.

387
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:29,720
Got it.
Yeah.

388
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,480
And so it was pretty much that
was our little family triad or

389
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,600
whatever until all the kids came
along periodically through my

390
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:47,240
life, depending on what was
going on in the cult, my

391
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,280
biological mother kept some.
I met my uncle, I think once or

392
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,840
twice when we were younger, my
biological side of the family,

393
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,920
they would sneak down to our
house in Shawno and see us.

394
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,320
So like I met some of my uncles
and aunts when we were younger

395
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,200
because they would sneak down
and see us and that kind of

396
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,920
thing.
But pretty much we were cut off.

397
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,720
Like we didn't, we weren't
allowed to.

398
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,000
Like we didn't do holidays.
We didn't do anything with them.

399
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,920
Like we had no part of their
lives.

400
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,240
I forgot where I was going with
that.

401
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,640
Anyway, at that time when all of
that was going on, that's when

402
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,680
the cult really got closed off
from society.

403
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,880
He also had two children at that
time.

404
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,000
And this wasn't how when you
were how old?

405
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,880
While his kids were.
I don't, I wasn't even born then

406
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,520
at that time.
No, no, I wasn't even born at

407
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,000
that time.
I would say my second my their

408
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,080
second child.
OK, so they were on like 2 of?

409
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:57,040
11 yeah yeah and then the other
he the cult leader had two

410
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,840
children of his own and I would
say that's when the control

411
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:08,040
really started like you know
taking hold I got shifted the

412
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:09,760
dynamic when he.
Became a father.

413
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:17,120
Himself and also he became very
dynamic in Shano County and like

414
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,800
he would pray to his wife around
with like the furs and the best

415
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,720
cars and all of that kind of
stuff.

416
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,360
So people in Shawno really
respected him and really thought

417
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,000
that he was this like, you know,
wonderful person kind of thing

418
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,040
at the very beginning until
their eyes kind of started

419
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,040
getting open.
But by that time, he had pretty

420
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,760
much sucked the group into a
closed knit kind of thing,

421
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,000
cutting off family and all of
that kind of stuff at the same

422
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,920
time.
I don't know if you've ever

423
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,720
heard of the deprogramming
things that they used to do back

424
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,600
in the 70s for the cults.
There were a couple of people

425
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:57,920
that were cutting off their
family and the family was trying

426
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,760
to get them out because they
were younger.

427
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,000
It's actually in the newspapers
and stuff, stories about it or

428
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,720
whatever.
You can just Google it.

429
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:14,320
Shawno, Wisconsin brainwashing
case, I think it was Bill from

430
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,560
his 70s.
Yeah, it was yeah.

431
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,960
Or like yeah, right around like
the 1970s, nineteen 80s, like

432
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,960
right in there.
Bill Iles.

433
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,240
I want to say his name so he's
like a. 30 to 40 year old adult

434
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:37,640
at this time displaying this
affluent businessman persona and

435
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,080
harkening these followers to cut
off their families.

436
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,000
Yes, by saying that doing
miracles, by saying he had

437
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:54,120
visions, you know, one the I see
the choir of the Angel standing

438
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:59,440
behind you praying or singing
with us and just, you know,

439
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,040
crazy stuff like that.
And that's how he would just

440
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,840
suck them in.
And very community, very like

441
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,440
everything, everybody was
supposed to be together and this

442
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,440
was supposed to be like, you
know, very community.

443
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,920
That was the very first base,
you know, like that was it.

444
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,960
And then I would say right
around when the first group of

445
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,800
kids started being born, which
were my older sisters, there

446
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,760
were a couple there like kids
that were born too, right around

447
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,600
that time.
But I would say that's when the

448
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,240
shift really started and the
controlling, you know, the food,

449
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,440
the dressing was already, you
know, you had to dress modest

450
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:38,720
girls.
He was from India.

451
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,080
So he kind of put the pulled the
Eastern thing in it.

452
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,800
You had to kneel when you
prayed, you know, head to the

453
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,560
ground.
So was the actual.

454
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:54,880
That kind of stuff was the
actual basis of the of like the

455
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,280
religious belief.
Was it something he created or

456
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,200
was it on the foundation?
Did he keep going with the

457
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Pentecostal or OK, so it was on
the basis of?

458
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,360
Christianity, yes, like I said,
the disciples of the Lord Jesus

459
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,840
Christ was what he had first
called it.

460
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:14,440
That's what was the name of it.
And everybody that joined were

461
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,960
true believers in Jesus Christ,
and they fully believed Jesus

462
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:25,600
Christ was their Savior and that
he was going to be the saving

463
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,840
grace.
That changed right around the

464
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,880
time Thor died and he really
started pushing Judaism.

465
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,760
And really.
Yeah, like he swapped it all.

466
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,960
And now they all are really into
Judaism, and Jesus Christ is no

467
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,960
longer the savior.
He is just some prophet or

468
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,080
whatever.
And he just spun the spun the

469
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,440
the narrative by how he was
speaking with people that this

470
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,160
is the next.
Thing, yes, yes.

471
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,480
And anybody who questioned it,
he would say things like, well,

472
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,600
the Lord hasn't revealed that to
me yet.

473
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,400
OK.
And those kind of thing.

474
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,720
Oh, and he would also then Bree
like tear you down in front of

475
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,760
the congregation.
That was one of the big huge

476
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,280
punishments.
Like he would just like I'm

477
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:22,000
looking for the berate, like
just tear you down and just I

478
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,680
mean the name he did.
Something he didn't like or?

479
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,080
Correct something he didn't like
that he didn't agree with or you

480
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,520
questioned something he said he
would really and he would go

481
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,760
after you in ways that are just
number one.

482
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,080
I can't explain without saying
the words that he would say.

483
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,440
And they are very bad.
And, you know, you're a cow's

484
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,480
bottom, but in a very like pig's
bottom, that's what your pig's

485
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,360
bottom.
Your, you know, scum.

486
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,720
Your children are going to go to
hell and they're going to

487
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,440
suffer, you know, like just just
tear you apart and make you

488
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,600
just.
And he did it in front of

489
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,120
everybody.
And that was one of his

490
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,880
punishments.
And it would continue all

491
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,960
weekend long.
Like you would be the one you

492
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,000
just and it wouldn't be just him
because then he would have his

493
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,080
little clique that are very like
hardcore that would join in on

494
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,280
it and they would briate you and
beat you and do whatever

495
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,680
horrible things to you as well.
So your life was hell if you

496
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:28,240
questioned anything and I saw
people get beat like you

497
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,920
wouldn't believe with two by
fours hoses.

498
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,880
The physical abuse that we
experienced in that place is

499
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,840
unreal.
Electrical cords.

500
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,960
Cattle Prods.
Children, adults, or both.

501
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:46,200
Children, adults, everybody.
There used to be a wife that

502
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,880
would use a cattle prod on her
husband.

503
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:49,400
Really.
Yeah.

504
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,680
OK, so let's keep the.
Let's keep.

505
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:59,760
The time, yeah, that's.
Going to be no so that that time

506
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,760
period between when you moved to
Shawnell and then like this

507
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,560
stuff starts happening not only
the berating in front of the

508
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,520
congregation, but like physical
abuse stuff that's happening the

509
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,840
entire time after you.
OK, yes.

510
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,400
And I would say that really
started after they bought the

511
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,480
property like that.
When they were doing meetings

512
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,400
and stuff at my grandparents
place, that kind of stuff wasn't

513
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,400
happening.
I mean, he always disciplined

514
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,200
with like, you know, spanking,
always spare the rod, spoil the

515
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,520
child, so to speak.
You know, that was always his

516
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,200
philosophy.
But it wasn't until they got to

517
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,800
the compound in Shano that it
really like escalated to like,

518
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,240
you know, the cattle broad and
that kind of thing, so.

519
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,000
Even in that scenario up in Iron
Mountain he still had the

520
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,440
influence though, where like
other people would like he would

521
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,360
spank other people's children.
Like even that's.

522
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,480
Yes outside the norm right just
so I'm not see and that's why I

523
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:07,320
like I just I don't know how to
there would there's pictures and

524
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:08,880
like I'm not kidding you on
this.

525
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,040
There was one woman that was
following him and she loved him

526
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:21,080
so much that she would literally
sit on his feet and hug his leg

527
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,160
cross legged around his foot and
around his thigh and hold him as

528
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,320
he would stand there and preach
to the congregation.

529
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,880
His wife would be sitting right
there on the couch watching all

530
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,080
of this and this woman would
just be clinging to because she

531
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:42,360
loved him so much.
And so these are the kind of now

532
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,800
I do believe that she had some
mental problems from the very

533
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,720
beginning.
I mean, she probably some

534
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,120
bipolarness or something like
that, you know, was probably

535
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,880
there.
I'm not 100% sure, but I don't

536
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,800
want.
Shaking image yes.

537
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,680
You know, yes.
And so like, these are the kind

538
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:06,280
of like he would get people like
so just sucked in, like they

539
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,520
would just be willing to do
whatever he said.

540
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,199
And she was one of the people
that would go around and use,

541
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,880
you know, like he wouldn't even
have to be there.

542
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,000
And she'd you're gossiping.
You're not supposed to be

543
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,120
talking.
What are you talking?

544
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,480
And then she'd run off and go
tell Rama and then you'd be in

545
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,080
trouble or he would come out
with, you know, the electrical

546
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,199
cord and like you would get
whaps on your back or, you know,

547
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:35,639
like, so like you had these
little people in there that

548
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,000
would tattle on you.
So you just you know what I

549
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,120
mean?
Like that dynamic.

550
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,960
So from the very beginning that
it was that always.

551
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,360
In place.
OK, yeah.

552
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,840
So then in as you witnessed it
and maybe it was because of

553
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:56,360
proximity, like as you got older
and aged, was that physical

554
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,640
abuse always there or did it get
worse as you got older?

555
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,560
So I would say the abuse changed
as time went by.

556
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,160
I wouldn't necessarily say it
got better or worse because

557
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,400
sometimes mental abuse is worse
than physical abuse.

558
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,200
So I would have rather gotten
whipped or the cattle prod used

559
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,360
on me versus the the free
ratement that they got all

560
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,760
weekend long because not only
did you get it mentally, but

561
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,600
everybody else joined in.
So they would follow his lead

562
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,040
and start like just hypothetical
whatever, just bullying 1.

563
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,880
Person there, yes.
And it wasn't just one person.

564
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,520
They'd actually be like
families.

565
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,040
So like I don't know if you know
anything about the Indian like.

566
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,880
Social dynamics or whatever, but
there's very like a caste

567
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,960
system, so to speak, you know,
and or a hierarchy of people who

568
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,160
are there.
And they did change over time.

569
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,600
But saying some families were
better than other families and

570
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,440
you definitely knew that.
So if you were like a Kemp kid,

571
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,960
you were worse.
If you were a like the Faeus

572
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,880
kids, we weren't as bad because
our grandfather was an original.

573
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,880
He was an elder.
So we got to escape some of the

574
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,640
things that like happened, like
I never got my head shaved and

575
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:34,840
spit on where, Yeah, where some
of the other kids, because they

576
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,680
were on the lower end of the
totem pole, so to speak, because

577
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,600
their family was, they got worse
like treatment and everybody

578
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,560
treated them like that.
They got their.

579
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,440
Head shaves and speed.
On yes, one of the punishments

580
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,520
was if he would shave your head
and then he would make the whole

581
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,280
congregation, every single
person, every adult, every

582
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,800
child, as you walk by, you had
to spit on them.

583
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,360
And usually he would place them
by the door as you were going

584
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,400
out and every time you walked
out you would have to spit on

585
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,000
them.
Wow, and that was some form of

586
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,600
punishment because that family
like one person that.

587
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,680
Family did something wrong or
just that boy?

588
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,840
It was mostly girls.
I don't think a boy.

589
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,400
I don't know if a boy ever that
ever happened to a boy, but I

590
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,120
know for sure it happened to
quite a few girls.

591
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,400
Yeah, well, it's so like,
depending on which.

592
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,840
Like if I had done what she had
done, my punishment probably

593
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,720
would not have been worse
because I had the higher yes,

594
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,800
yes.
And so he would most likely like

595
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,520
take me.
Like you're not allowed to do

596
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,600
that.
Like when I got a little bit

597
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,800
older, I got a click together
because, well, I was just a very

598
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:51,320
spicy child and didn't I always
asked why and you had to have a

599
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,640
good reason to explain why.
And I didn't like the picking on

600
00:37:54,640 --> 00:38:00,080
younger people or younger kids.
So I would fight back.

601
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,320
And I ended up getting like a
little click, our little click

602
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,320
of kids.
Because as you get older and you

603
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:12,320
get teenagers, you know you get,
it doesn't matter what you

604
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,560
experience in our life when you
are born, you automatically know

605
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,200
right from wrong.
And depending on how much you

606
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,240
give up to the wrong, what you
know wrong, even when you're a

607
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:29,400
child or young, you lose that
inner voice inside of you or

608
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:35,000
that inner right versus wrong
sense, so to speak.

609
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,360
So you're saying like
hypothetically you you leave a

610
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,320
meeting or whatever you called
them at that time where some

611
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,440
some a kids head shaved and
everybody had to spit on them.

612
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,600
You're saying if you leave that
and turn to blind eye, you're

613
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,240
just a little bit more towards
the wrong correct and losing the

614
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:53,640
wrong?
You're a little bit more willing

615
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,000
to do it next time.
Got it.

616
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,720
Yeah, absolutely.
You're a little bit more willing

617
00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:00,120
to stand up or like, you know,
be pushed to the next thing.

618
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,960
Yeah.
And so, you know, like, and not

619
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,400
everybody is as stubborn as I
am, and not everybody has the.

620
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:21,680
Desire to know why so bad like I
needed to know why and it you

621
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,800
couldn't say because that wasn't
good enough for me.

622
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,840
You couldn't.
You had to like, I had to

623
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,240
understand why.
And if I didn't understand why,

624
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,040
and I thought you were stupid, I
just didn't do what you said,

625
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,920
like and.
That's the mortal enemy to him,

626
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,960
because there is no one.
Correct, correct, correct.

627
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,800
And he did try explaining things
to me, but then he would

628
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,400
contradict himself and I would
hear him talk to other people

629
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:45,840
and I would bring that up to
him.

630
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,920
So from a very young age, I just
thought he was stupid.

631
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,640
Like very young.
Yeah, literally this guys

632
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,200
bullshit.
Yes yes, I remember being 8

633
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,680
years old, seven years old and
walking down the stairs and

634
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,480
hearing him talk and me just
looking at him like you're just

635
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,360
dumb and not fully understanding
where those thoughts came from

636
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,920
or why I had those thoughts.
You know, I did on that didn't

637
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,320
register me.
I didn't understand.

638
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,160
Looking back now, I'm like, how
did you know that no one else

639
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:19,240
did it and they did know It's
just it's really hard to stand

640
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:23,080
up when you have your parents
and everybody you look up to all

641
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,280
the adults doing the exact same
thing.

642
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,360
How do you?
Yes, you know so.

643
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,280
I was just one of those kids
that just, I didn't care.

644
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,440
I just didn't care.
And he would say things to me

645
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,240
like I remember thinking you're
stupid or whatever, walking down

646
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:41,080
the stairs and him looking at me
and telling me your sins will be

647
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,920
tenfold because you have more
awareness about you than anybody

648
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,640
else.
So you better really like heed

649
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,720
the line and not do anything
wrong.

650
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,920
And I took that to heart.
Man, I'd really did like, I did

651
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,480
nothing wrong, like any like
sins or anything that I thought

652
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,320
would be wrong.
I thought the earth would open

653
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:03,360
up and I I'd be swallowed whole
by the burning pit of fire that

654
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,360
was down below.
Like, I really thought that, you

655
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,400
know, So when he would ask me to
do bad things like a lie, I was

656
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,720
like, no, the earth is going to
go open up.

657
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:15,800
You told me my sins would be
tenfold.

658
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,480
I won't even get 10 minutes.
The earth is just going to open

659
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,480
up and swallow me like and.
Then he would turn around and

660
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,640
ask you to lie about.
Something yeah, yeah, like just

661
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,960
crazy stuff like that.
And it and he wouldn't so like,

662
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,360
and one of the biggest things
that I witnessed was the way he

663
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,520
would manipulate husbands and
wives.

664
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,120
So like they would come to him
for marriage counseling or they

665
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,800
were having problem in their
marriage.

666
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:48,080
And one specific, I'm going to
use one specific example or

667
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,640
couple of the times that I kind
of like was around them because

668
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:58,320
I saw it from start to finish.
And the guy that I'm talking

669
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,160
about, he actually went to
prison for his crimes and he is

670
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,640
out now.
But a lot of the reasons why he

671
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,360
did those crimes was because of
what Rama put him up to.

672
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,120
And you can Google or YouTube
Galen Priebe and you can pull up

673
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,360
all of his YouTube videos and
you can see his whole story.

674
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,240
It's just mind boggling.
That's a dude that went to

675
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:22,840
prison.
Yes, yes.

676
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:29,720
Anyway, so I physically
witnessed him going to Rama and

677
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:35,680
complaining about marriage
problems and his wife being a

678
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,960
meanie and not putting out and
like, you know, just arguing all

679
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,240
the time and they just never
seem to get along and all of

680
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:46,720
those kind of things.
Now you have to remember this is

681
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:48,880
in a process of like a couple of
months.

682
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,760
He used to do a lot of the
carpentry work for Rama and so

683
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,960
all the kitchen cabinets, all
the fine, like crafting and all

684
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:03,560
of that kind of stuff he did.
He was very detailed and like

685
00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:05,240
beautiful.
Did beautiful work.

686
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,240
Amazing.
Yes, yes, very.

687
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,040
And so I was on his little work
crew.

688
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,240
And so Rama would be talking to
him while they were like up in

689
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,000
the kitchen working on the
kitchen cabinets.

690
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,840
And you would have me and like
three or four other kids or

691
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,200
whatever, just standing, doing
whatever working.

692
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,920
And they would have this
conversation.

693
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,120
Well, most kids don't really
listen.

694
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,560
I was the kid that listened.
And so I would hear the

695
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,360
conversations and I would
literally hear Rama say things

696
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,360
like, well, she is not the only
other female in your house.

697
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,280
The only other female in their
house was his daughter.

698
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,480
That's disgusting.
And so like, those are the kind

699
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:56,040
of things that you, so he
wouldn't write out, say go do

700
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:02,720
that, but he would put little
things into your brain.

701
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,320
You know what I mean?
He'd put little messages into

702
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:06,520
your brain.
Always trying to.

703
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,200
Manipulate the situation, Yes,
yes.

704
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:12,240
And at the same time, so like,
say that was like Friday or

705
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:17,720
Thursday and then Friday you'd
be downstairs and he would be

706
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:20,360
coming down and walking through
and all of a sudden you'd see

707
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,360
the wife come walking up and
she'd be, brother, I just really

708
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,200
need to talk to you having
issues, blah, blah, blah about

709
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,040
whatever.
And Rama would say things to her

710
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,800
like, well, withhold it from
him.

711
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,280
What are you doing?
Giving it up?

712
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,760
Like, you know, that's what he
wants.

713
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,400
So control your husband, you
know, pray about it, you know,

714
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,640
and those kind of things.
So like he was manipulating

715
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,720
both, knowing that they're both
complaining about the same

716
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:52,560
thing, have the same issues, but
telling them to do the opposite.

717
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,560
You know what I mean?
Like yes, and not only did he do

718
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,640
that with just very, it was
every relationship in the cult,

719
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:08,400
brother, sister, mother, father,
father, daughter.

720
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:14,000
Like anytime he saw that kind of
connection, he would make it so

721
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,040
that way he would tell one, one
thing and one another thing.

722
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,280
And it was just his way of
controlling everything.

723
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,520
That's why he didn't want you
talking to one another when you

724
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,880
were cutting grass or whatever,
because then you would hear,

725
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,320
well, that's not what I said.
Well, that's what he said you

726
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,280
said, well, that's not what I
said, you know what I mean?

727
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,800
And so we couldn't have those
conversations because he would

728
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:45,240
then put you on a different work
crew or he would send you into

729
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,560
the meetings where you had to
sit from sun up to sundown on

730
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,000
your knees and pray and saying,
oh, yeah, you couldn't use the

731
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,800
bathroom without permission.
Most people peed.

732
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,640
I got really good at putting a
towel in between my thighs and

733
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,640
waddling my way into without
anybody noticing.

734
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,400
So you if I did have to pee, I
could pee on the on the towel.

735
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,880
And make you meal there all day.
All day, all day.

736
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,560
Oh, kids were put in barrel big,
you know, the big wine barrels,

737
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,920
you know, he had.
I don't know how many of those I

738
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,200
want to say like 20-25, maybe
30.

739
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,360
I don't know quite a few in a
corner for.

740
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:29,000
The listeners I I didn't have a
laptop charger plugged in all

741
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,000
the way out of the corner of my
eye.

742
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,800
I think it was like right before
you told the story of your

743
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,240
brother in the barrel in the
barrel.

744
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,720
So let's start.
Let's tell that story again and

745
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:41,320
then I'll just cut it where it
needs to go.

746
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:49,040
So you.
So, so we would get there

747
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,080
Fridays or whatever and then we
weren't really, no one was

748
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,640
allowed to leave if you were
from out of town, but we lived

749
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,080
in Chano.
So on Saturday nights we would

750
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,560
go home.
Blessing.

751
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,440
None of the other kids got that
like runaway or whatever to

752
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,440
their house.
So my brother, for some reason,

753
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,960
I do not remember why, I got put
into one of the wine barrels

754
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,440
after the Sunday morning
meeting.

755
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:23,400
And he got stuck in there pretty
much until my biological father

756
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,280
went to get permission from Rama
to take him out, which was like

757
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:33,560
2 or 3:00 in the morning on.
Well, it'd been Sunday morning

758
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,720
then.
And he had to stand at the

759
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:39,960
bottom of the stairs and wait
for Rama to come out or someone

760
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,120
to come out and say, yes, Rama
gives permission for you to go

761
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,360
take your son out of the barrel.
And, yeah, when he got to the

762
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,840
car, he was definitely full of,
yeah, pee and, you know,

763
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,680
probably poo.
I remember all of us kids

764
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,200
scooting away because he smelled
bad.

765
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:58,600
Yeah.
So.

766
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:04,640
So then what was life like when
like when you weren't there?

767
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:13,040
So when we were OK, so us kids,
my family personally, we lived

768
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:20,120
in Shawnell probably, I want to
say it was probably a 10 minute

769
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,640
drive or 7 minute drive from the
compound in Shawnell.

770
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:32,240
And our days honestly, pretty
much we ran around like crazy

771
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,480
people in our woods that we grew
up.

772
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,040
My parents had I think 1520
acres, something like that.

773
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:45,040
And we pretty much just roamed
the woods, had a pretty good

774
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,840
childhood with us just every day
during the week, Monday through

775
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,160
Friday evening was fantastic.
Wednesday afternoon, all of us

776
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,400
would get together and go to the
compound for like midweek

777
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,600
meeting or prayer session or
whatever.

778
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,680
And that was just the people who
lived in Shano and Rama wasn't

779
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,440
there.
So it, that wasn't bad.

780
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,200
You just showed up, prayed and
got the hell out of there.

781
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,200
And so you weren't stuck there.
No berating or anything like

782
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:18,320
that.
So Monday through Thursday or

783
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,680
half a Friday, it was pretty
good.

784
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,800
We ran around outside, we
climbed trees, built the Fort,

785
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,600
just did.
We had no TV, no electricity or

786
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,000
no TV, no radio or anything like
that.

787
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,200
So we just pretty much went to
the library, got books on how to

788
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,920
make bow and arrows, slingshots
and anything else and we.

789
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,000
It had to be pretty heavily
policed what books you got at

790
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,720
the library, right?
No, that was the one thing that

791
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,560
was not policed.
And I don't think he was aware

792
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,560
of how much or what we were
exactly getting at the library.

793
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,160
Because I think once he did find
out, because my biological

794
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,080
mother was into romance novels.
And I mean, that's how I got

795
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,480
into romance novels, which she'd
bring books home from the

796
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,760
library and we would all of us
would read them or whatever.

797
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,000
And he didn't know about that
until after I left.

798
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,520
I think he found out.
And that was one of the things

799
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,840
that she started getting torn
down for, OK, was the romance

800
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,840
novel.
So no, he was not quite aware.

801
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,840
He, I think he was expecting her
to police them more.

802
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,360
Sure, but she didn't.
I mean, we were pretty much had

803
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,360
a free for all for whatever
books we wanted to look at in

804
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,080
the library.
As long as it wasn't like sexual

805
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,440
nature kind of thing, OK.
So were the kids in school.

806
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,280
Periodically, depending on what
was going on with him, if he

807
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,760
went over to India to visit his
family, then we would backslide

808
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,800
and they would put their
children in school.

809
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,960
Then when he get back home it
would be cut off.

810
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:04,040
So I went to school for maybe
1/4 or a semester when I was

811
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:09,240
like in, I want to say 6th
grade, and then he came back

812
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,480
from India and we were all
pulled out of school.

813
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,720
We were heathen people.
We were being heathens while he

814
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:19,440
was gone, as he would say.
Amazing, though, that without

815
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:26,000
the without him, the how quickly
it reverted back to OK, this is

816
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,360
what everybody else does now
we'll do this.

817
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:30,400
Fascinating.
Correct.

818
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,280
And it also depended on, like,
sometimes he would push

819
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,480
education depending on what he
needed.

820
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,640
Like if he needed lawyers, he
would push kids to go to like

821
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,200
law school.
For a while there.

822
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,520
It was like, everybody needs to
be go, go be lawyers, go be, you

823
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,000
know, this or go be doctors or
go do that.

824
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:48,800
And it was because he needed a
doctor.

825
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,080
It was because he needed
lawyers.

826
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,800
It was because he needed, you
know, so whatever he pushed at

827
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,560
the time, the education thing
kind of backfired a little bit

828
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,160
on him because, you know, then
kids started going out into the

829
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:00,440
room, I learned.
Other stuff.

830
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,000
Yeah, yeah.
So, you know, you ended up with

831
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:08,760
cases, what I call fencers.
They kind of believe, but yet

832
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,640
they don't go to the.
Or like straddling the fence.

833
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,280
I see.
OK, yeah, I call it Yeah.

834
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,320
You know, they call him, they
give him money and they kind of

835
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,640
appease him to still be in his
good graces to, you know.

836
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,880
Hey, brother, you know, this has
come up.

837
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,760
What is your opinion on it?
Does the Lord say that I should

838
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,080
do this?
And then they go out and like do

839
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,800
all the sinful things.
They they, you know, OK, I say

840
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,880
they're not any different thing
in the Catholics, you know,

841
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:36,600
going and then all of a sudden,
yeah.

842
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,520
Hey Father, I send blah blah
blah.

843
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,200
It's kind of like the same
concept in my eyes anyway.

844
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,320
Yeah, so I forgot where I was
going with that.

845
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,000
That's OK, That's OK.
So I'm glad we got a good

846
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,760
picture painted of like the the
scenario I we could talk like I

847
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,800
have so many questions about.
That forever.

848
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:06,400
You could go on.
But I want to kind of hone back

849
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,800
in on your story.
So like, when does it start

850
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,760
happening that you always you
you looked at it with this

851
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,880
discerning point of view, like
this guy's kind of like he's not

852
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,040
right.
But when does it start coming to

853
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:23,720
a head and how did it end up
like, because I'm assuming after

854
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:26,440
hearing all that stories about
corporal punishment, you had to

855
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,400
go through some shit before you
actually got out of there.

856
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,840
Like, what are the last couple
years look like?

857
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,680
And when did your mind start
going to like, OK, not only is

858
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,160
he full of shit, I have to get
out of here.

859
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,480
Well.
I actually got kicked out.

860
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,520
All right, that was from the Tik
Toks, OK.

861
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:47,240
So, OK, so when I was 10 years
old, right around the time of

862
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:52,840
time you went right around that
age is when I really saw all of

863
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:57,360
the sexual abuse.
IA girl that I was very close to

864
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,360
that lived in Chanel Galen, his
daughter, I was very close with

865
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,720
her and I witnessed a change in
her.

866
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:10,160
I knew something happened and I
wasn't quite sure what.

867
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:17,360
And later on, having
conversations with Galen later

868
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:22,000
on, he does remember her, this
conversation of me asking what

869
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:26,320
had happened to her because she
had just kind of done a 180 and

870
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,960
she wasn't talking.
She wasn't like, she was very

871
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,000
like, not herself.
Something had happened.

872
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,360
And I remember asking him,
because at that time we still

873
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,680
sat around these big huge bowls
of like Curry or whatever that

874
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:45,160
he would make us eat.
And I remember asking him what

875
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,040
had happened to her or if she
was OK.

876
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,720
Around that same time, there
were three or four other girls

877
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:57,640
that I had found out that it was
happening too.

878
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:08,760
And that was pretty much when
the the dark side of it really

879
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,080
came forward and kind of hit me
in the face.

880
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:18,240
Where we started showing each
other like what was happening

881
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,160
because we didn't have words for
it.

882
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:25,200
And we started communicating to
other kids what was kind of

883
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:31,280
happening or what to expect, so
to speak, but in a down low kind

884
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,800
of way.
At the same time that that was

885
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:42,160
happening, you also had at the
same time you had children who

886
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:48,240
were curious and like all kids
of their body parts.

887
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:54,680
And so you had some kids playing
doctor that would go to the next

888
00:55:54,680 --> 00:56:00,160
level and with older kids versus
younger kids.

889
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:07,240
And so the younger kids were
experiencing some trauma that in

890
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:10,880
many ways the older kids were
doing to them without realizing

891
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:16,360
that that was bad and you should
not be doing that because sex

892
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,720
was literally there was no talk
about it.

893
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,640
Like, I didn't know what a
period was when I got my period.

894
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,760
I, like you, just didn't talk
about your body was yours.

895
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,760
Nobody walked in the bathroom on
you.

896
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:34,400
It was very like a taboo
subject, like you did not talk

897
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,720
about it whatsoever.
And the older kids had

898
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:41,360
experienced some things that
they shouldn't have.

899
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,960
Yes.
And then they in turn did that

900
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,840
to the younger kids.
Well, not Even so much.

901
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,920
I wouldn't say do it to the
younger kids, try to explain it

902
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,560
to the younger kids.
Yeah, kind of normalized because

903
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,040
it had happened.
To them and they didn't want the

904
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,600
trauma and they're now you got
to, you know, like this is them

905
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,800
thinking they're helping out the
younger, you know, kids like

906
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,120
this is what they're doing or
you know, and you don't have

907
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,800
words for it.
You can't say this is what he

908
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,720
did because you don't know what
that's called.

909
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,320
You don't know what he did to
you.

910
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,920
You don't know that that, you
know, like even a kiss.

911
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,320
What do you mean by he used
tongue?

912
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,800
I didn't know what tongue was
like, you know, so here, let me

913
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,080
show you.
And that was just, you know,

914
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:36,280
that's what he did.
And so you're honestly doing

915
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,320
trauma to the next person.
You're the person causing the

916
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:41,680
trauma.
You're not even aware that

917
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,840
you're causing the trauma.
But now you enacted that trauma

918
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,640
onto that younger kid.
Now that younger kid takes it

919
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,440
and runs with it and will play
doctor with someone who's really

920
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,680
close with him or whatever.
And it just started this whole

921
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,920
thing where like pretty much all
the kids were playing doctor.

922
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,320
Got it.
And kind of to circle in that

923
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,920
thought, you said you, your
friend you that you had

924
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,080
witnessed the change in that was
that.

925
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,280
Around that, That was time,
yeah.

926
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,000
Around that time, yeah.
So once I found out that that

927
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,960
happened to her and what was
going on because she told me

928
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,440
what was going on.
Like I found out through her

929
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,200
what had happened.
And then I had found out like

930
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,840
three or four other girls right
around our age that that was

931
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,120
happening to.
And then?

932
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,440
All the all the members in the
congregation?

933
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:34,280
Or was that like Rama?
Doing the molesting, it was the

934
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,040
fathers.
OK, harkening back to the hint

935
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,560
that you said earlier that you
heard in the kitchen while you

936
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,080
were working with that group,
OK.

937
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:47,520
Yes, he was.
Rama was aware of what was going

938
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,240
on.
He was never aware of what was

939
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,160
not going on when it came to
that kind of scenario.

940
00:58:53,160 --> 00:59:01,800
Got it.
I do believe in my opinion, so

941
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:08,120
around that time is when I came
to realize that there were older

942
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,840
kids that this had happened to
and it had trickled down.

943
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,400
And so it wasn't just these
girls that were experiencing it

944
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,560
from their fathers and sometimes
older brothers.

945
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,640
You are also getting it from the
kids your age.

946
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:29,080
Like, you know, so it was like
this untalked about hidden

947
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,920
secret that was kind of going
on.

948
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:36,880
And that is when my brain
clicked and that is when, oh,

949
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,920
and my grandfather ended up
molesting me.

950
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:46,000
I have three very full memories
of it, full detail memories of

951
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,960
it happening to me.
Whether there was more and I

952
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,160
have blocked him, I can't say
100%.

953
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,960
I don't believe so because the
last memory I have I do remember

954
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,640
him apologizing to me for it and
saying that it was wrong and

955
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:03,080
that he shouldn't do it.
Really like on his deathbed or

956
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:04,800
something.
No, no.

957
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,640
I don't know if he was afraid
that I was going to go tell

958
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:16,080
somebody or I was, yes.
So like he was kind of crippled.

959
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:17,880
He had arthritis in his hips and
stuff.

960
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,120
So after the Sunday morning
meetings, he would leave and go

961
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:26,160
up to his truck and like walk
around and sometimes go to like

962
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,200
our house or whatever.
He wouldn't stay sitting in the

963
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:34,800
meeting or praying or whatever.
And us kids, when we were

964
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,520
younger and including while this
time was going on, we would go

965
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:42,000
with him and we would purposely
sit next to him so we could

966
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,240
escape and go with him.
And then we would go to the gas

967
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,920
station and we would get those
little candy bits of honey or

968
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,960
bits of honey.
So it was like we got away, like

969
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,760
we were special.
Like this was like a big deal

970
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,960
and that's kind of how he lured
me in when I was 10.

971
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:01,560
And that was one of the very
first.

972
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,560
That's where it happened.
And his truck parked up on the

973
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,720
hill after we had gone to the
gas station to get like some

974
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:16,920
candy and three separate
occasion the 2nd to last

975
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:21,680
occasion he had asked my brother
to come and get me.

976
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:28,440
And my brother knew a little bit
about kinda had suspected and I

977
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,520
didn't tell him but he kind of
knew.

978
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,480
And he had said hey grandpa
wants you or whatever.

979
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:39,040
And I ignored him and he had
stayed like, with me, but he

980
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,160
never like, pressured me to go
up there.

981
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,240
And then the second time, I
think it was the following

982
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,880
weekend, he had said something
about the same thing because I

983
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,320
had purposely stopped going and
sitting next to him.

984
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,680
And I wasn't like, you know,
like wanting to run out or

985
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,680
whatever.
I found a work crew to work on

986
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,040
that I would be away from the
whole thing.

987
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,840
And I think that's what scared
him.

988
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,840
And so the second time my
brother came down to get me to

989
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,680
go up to the vehicle, I didn't
get in the vehicle.

990
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,400
I went to his driver side.
And that's when he apologized to

991
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,880
me and said that it shouldn't
have happened, blah, blah, blah.

992
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,080
And I kept that a secret.
I didn't tell anybody that

993
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:21,400
happened to me.
I kept that that until I for my

994
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,720
husband.
Now, the first time we dated, I

995
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:31,720
think I was like 21/20/21 and it
slipped out because we were in a

996
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:36,040
relationship and we were talking
or whatever and it had just

997
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,200
flung out of me.
And yeah, to see his reaction

998
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,840
told me that no, you weren't
crazy, That that isn't, that

999
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:50,200
isn't right or whatever.
And it gave me the, I guess the

1000
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,800
strength or the confirmation I
needed to be able to verbally

1001
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:57,200
put it out there that yes, this
did happen.

1002
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:03,200
This was something that was not
OK because you see so much a

1003
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,840
little petting and a little bit
of kissing and a little bit of,

1004
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:12,320
you know, even when you grow up
watching a cattle prod being

1005
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:19,800
used on somebody who is 345
years old wit literally he took

1006
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,880
wire connection wire or whatever
from your house that you run,

1007
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,880
you know, the wiring in your
house and he would fray the ends

1008
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:31,520
of it.
So you would get the copper to

1009
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,840
stick out.
And then he would walk around

1010
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,520
and whip you like literally he
carried it with them everywhere

1011
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,800
and he would just whip your back
so the copper would.

1012
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:44,960
And my one sister, older sister,
she has a full blown memory of

1013
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,640
being whipped like you wouldn't
believe.

1014
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:51,920
And I also remember part of it.
I don't remember the whole thing

1015
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:56,080
but when she tells her story it
comes back and I can remember it

1016
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:59,720
vividly.
He chased her around with that

1017
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,880
cord and whipped her so bad that
she had she was bleeding like

1018
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:08,400
cut her and her shirt end up
getting or her blouse ended up

1019
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,120
getting stuck to her back.
And I remember my biological

1020
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:14,800
mother peeling that off of her
when she had to go take a bath

1021
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,480
and helping her, and her
screaming and crying as she

1022
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,560
peeled it off.
And the reason why he whipped

1023
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,400
her was because her spirit was
lying.

1024
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,360
He could see it.
He could see her spirit and it

1025
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,000
was lying.
So therefore he chased her

1026
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,400
around and whipped her.
Yeah.

1027
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,560
And you're saying what you're
getting at you when you get,

1028
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:42,880
when that's all you see growing
up, Yes, you don't have like you

1029
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,960
weren't empowered to say, OK,
this feels wrong.

1030
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,440
But you.
Couldn't say.

1031
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,600
Yes, and I would yes.
And I would say that was the

1032
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,400
very first out of everything
that happened.

1033
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,720
I would say that was probably
the worst thing that happened to

1034
01:04:55,720 --> 01:05:00,920
me because that was the very
first time in my life my body

1035
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,960
was saying something, but
everything else was saying no.

1036
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,440
And I didn't know how to
correlate those.

1037
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:12,280
And it wasn't until I got kicked
out that I was able to say, OK,

1038
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:19,200
no, my dad wouldn't do that or
my dad would kill somebody if

1039
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,160
they if he found out they did
that, you know what I mean?

1040
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,840
And so that was when it really
cemented that no, I was right,

1041
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,840
you're wrong or whatever.
And so, you know, but I was out

1042
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,800
by that time, you know, but that
was a really hard thing for me

1043
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,480
to because that really messed
with me.

1044
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:42,840
It really made me question who I
was, what I was, if I was doing

1045
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,440
heathen things or all of, you
know, all of these things, or

1046
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,120
if, you know, like what they
say, they're spirits inside of

1047
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,040
you and they're leading you to
do horrible things.

1048
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,160
And you know the spirit of your
Father is going to follow you,

1049
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,880
and you're going to be just like
your father and all of those

1050
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,720
kind of things.
And how could you not be so

1051
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,640
confused by that, though?
Because like everything around

1052
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:09,080
you, like you said, a lot of
that wild stuff that was

1053
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,040
happening was already wild.
It's like this is just another

1054
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:13,320
thing.
How do you discern between

1055
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,920
what's like should happen, what
shouldn't happen?

1056
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:21,080
What should you feel?
What rights do you have that you

1057
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,600
you had no understanding of?
Anything I didn't even know how

1058
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,640
to put it into words like, you
know, I didn't know.

1059
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,800
I didn't know how to explain to
anybody what he did to me.

1060
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:34,800
I didn't like literally I, it's
funny now when I say this, but

1061
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:41,520
to tell my husband Brand what he
did, I literally showed him like

1062
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:45,800
physically showed him.
Because even then at that age, I

1063
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:51,960
still didn't quite know how to
physically say those words out

1064
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:57,720
loud to somebody else.
And, you know, to have somebody

1065
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,720
to show and then him say the
words.

1066
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,720
And he was like, yes, that
that's it.

1067
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:04,360
That's that's what I'm talking
about.

1068
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,400
And he's like, yeah, I know.
I'm like, oh, well, I didn't

1069
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:08,800
know.
I didn't know.

1070
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,440
So, you know, that kind of
thing.

1071
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,240
And at the same time all of that
is going on, you know, you have

1072
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,040
the separation.
You can't go talk to your

1073
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:19,160
mother.
You can't go talk to your

1074
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:20,920
father.
You can't go and talk to anybody

1075
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,920
because he manipulates every
relationship so much, you know,

1076
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,680
and he turns everything around
that, you know, you're just

1077
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,880
stuck with all of this bottled
up inside of you with no outlet

1078
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:35,200
whatsoever.
And if you do dare let somebody

1079
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:42,080
know and he finds out, I mean,
you're beat, your head is shaved

1080
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,720
and you're spit on your like the
things that you.

1081
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:51,800
I mean, I did a podcast with
Cults to Consciousness and I

1082
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,200
told the one story and I'm just
going to tell it again because

1083
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:57,800
this will just give you a broad
idea of how abusive it was.

1084
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,520
And it was from the very
beginning, I was about 7 years

1085
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,240
old and we were doing projects
of building out the compound.

1086
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,800
And so during the week there was
a bunch of us kids there doing

1087
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:12,680
different work, welding, putting
up electrical, all of that kind

1088
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,080
of stuff.
And he, there was one guy there

1089
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,960
that was it.
Like his errands man would run

1090
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,800
and like do all these little
errands for him and he did

1091
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,359
something to piss Rama off.
I don't remember what it was.

1092
01:08:25,399 --> 01:08:28,240
It doesn't really matter.
He could get pissed off about

1093
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:29,720
anything.
It just didn't matter.

1094
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:34,000
Anyway, Rama pretty much looked
at all the teenage boys that

1095
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,720
were there and the adult males
that were there with a nod of

1096
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,439
his head and a flick of his
hand.

1097
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:43,560
And they literally dragged this
man out of where we were.

1098
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:49,399
When they came back with him, he
was not walking by himself.

1099
01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:51,160
They were literally dragging him
in.

1100
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,920
His legs were like cocked eyed
behind him and they were like

1101
01:08:54,920 --> 01:09:00,240
dragging him in.
He had blood all over, like his

1102
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,040
face.
He was bleeding from his mouth.

1103
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:04,720
He was bleeding from I believe
his eye.

1104
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:07,680
And I don't remember exactly.
I think he had blood coming out

1105
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,200
of his ear.
And they literally bring him in,

1106
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:17,200
walk him in front of Rama, like,
so they're holding him, he's

1107
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:23,359
just sagged, and they drop him,
like drop him at Rama's feet.

1108
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:28,200
The groan that comes from
somebody who's like kind of

1109
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,640
unconscious, not quite there and
their body hits the ground was

1110
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,359
what came from his mouth and he
laid there.

1111
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,120
Rama paid no attention to him
whatsoever, continued talking to

1112
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:43,720
the rest of us kids and few
adults that were there, with no

1113
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:53,080
hesitation, with no pause, with
no nothing, and proceeded to

1114
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:56,440
finish the conversation and turn
around and walked away.

1115
01:09:57,440 --> 01:09:59,720
Everybody else walked away and
left.

1116
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:04,400
That man laying there.
Now when I say a pool of blood

1117
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,720
underneath his head, got to
remember I was a little kid very

1118
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,560
traumatized by this.
This was like one of the very

1119
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:15,480
first times I had seen someone
really truly beaten to that

1120
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:18,760
point or whatever.
I had seen the cattle prod, that

1121
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,960
kind of thing, but not quite to
that where they were not

1122
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,800
unconscious.
But he was pretty Dang close.

1123
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,720
There was like a pool of blood
underneath his head when I

1124
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,480
walked away.
When we came back, there was

1125
01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:38,760
like 4 or five of us that came
back to see if he was still

1126
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:40,960
there.
He was not there, but you could

1127
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:48,400
see where he had dragged himself
out of the compound and he was

1128
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:53,360
then laying on a pile of like
sand slash clay stuff that we

1129
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,080
had for cement and that's where
he had gotten himself out to.

1130
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,960
At that point.
I do not remember if anybody

1131
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,960
helped him.
I for sure did not help him

1132
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:06,800
because I was not, I didn't know
what to do to help him, but I

1133
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,360
just wanted to make sure he was
still like alive and what

1134
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:11,400
happened.
Like I was very curious as to

1135
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:13,680
like if he was still laying
there or not still laying there,

1136
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:17,040
but he had moved outside.
That was not the only person

1137
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,560
that got beat like that.
That was not the only time that

1138
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:24,360
happened.
You would get other members of

1139
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,240
the congregation to do evil
things to little kids.

1140
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:30,320
Like there was one guy that
would literally walk around and

1141
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:35,040
just push little kids.
And when I say little kids, 1234

1142
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:37,640
years old, they'd be sitting
there playing in the dirt

1143
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:39,320
because you're not allowed to
have toys.

1144
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:43,200
So, you know, you make play,
kids play, you play in the dirt

1145
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,160
and you would just have them
walk by and kick ya.

1146
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,720
And for no reason whatsoever,
they're just cruel.

1147
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,840
And that was at Rama's request
to have this person do this.

1148
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,640
No, he was just a cruel person.
Built into the.

1149
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:01,480
Fabric of the community.
Well, you had like, you had

1150
01:12:01,480 --> 01:12:03,960
different kind of people,
different types of people in

1151
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:05,400
there.
You had people who enjoyed just.

1152
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:08,080
Like anything else.
Yeah, you had people who were

1153
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:15,200
very naive and kind of dumb when
it came to mind control and all

1154
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,600
of that kind of stuff and just
got fucked in.

1155
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,120
Yeah, there's a range of people
that are susceptible to this

1156
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,320
type of message, that it
resonates.

1157
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,840
With And that was my biological
parents, you know, they weren't

1158
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,760
my biological parents didn't do
things to be cruel, but there

1159
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:34,240
were quite a few people in there
that were just cruel people and

1160
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:40,440
they enjoyed that kind of thing.
And so it just depended you, us

1161
01:12:40,440 --> 01:12:44,640
kids figured out who those
people were and how to navigate.

1162
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:49,520
You know, we live in a matrix.
And depending on where your

1163
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,000
matrix is, you learn how to
navigate it.

1164
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,040
And, you know, you just kind of
figure out who to hang out with,

1165
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,760
who not to hang out with, who to
avoid, who not to avoid.

1166
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:01,280
You get very good at sensing
people coming up behind you from

1167
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,000
a very young age because those
things happen.

1168
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,120
So if you're not paying
attention and you're not alert

1169
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,200
at all times, you're going to
get smoked.

1170
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,960
And that was just the way it
was.

1171
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:16,640
And anyway, I was getting older.
I knew about the sexual abuse.

1172
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:19,000
I knew how he was manipulating
everybody.

1173
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:23,160
And so I wasn't the only
stubborn child there at that

1174
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:27,320
time.
So we got a little click of ours

1175
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,920
together and there were like
maybe four or five of us at that

1176
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,720
time.
It did get a little bit bigger,

1177
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,360
but then we got separated and I
got kicked out and our group got

1178
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:43,680
disbanded.
I came up on this guy literally

1179
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:48,720
had two kids were laying over a
cement pad and they were playing

1180
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:53,360
with two anthills that were like
down there and we were watching

1181
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,280
them play.
We knew where they they were

1182
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,720
there and they weren't doing
anything wrong.

1183
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:02,520
And this guy, one of the members
came up and took his foot and

1184
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:08,880
smeared the anthill like away.
And so you had this like, whole

1185
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,200
like, group of ants coming up
and trying to get up onto the

1186
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,400
cement pad.
And he made both of those boys

1187
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:19,240
stick out their tongue and put
it on the cement pad so the ants

1188
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:23,680
would go up in their mouth.
Well, let's just say I also have

1189
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:29,320
a temper and I see Red and as a
younger kid and not having

1190
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:32,280
really control over my temper
because, well, that's something

1191
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:36,840
he feeds as well.
I saw Red and me and my little

1192
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,640
clique went after him and we
decided to beat him up like we

1193
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,160
had seen everybody else being
beaten up two by four hoes.

1194
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,880
I mean, we went after him and we
just beat him.

1195
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:52,040
Like beat him.
At that time, unbeknownst to me,

1196
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:56,320
Rama and his big group of
following that would follow him

1197
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,960
wherever he would walk, his
paper towel girls and whoever

1198
01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:03,160
else was in his good graces.
Paper towel girls.

1199
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:08,360
Yeah, So it like, it was a
pride, like a wonderful thing

1200
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:10,760
for you to have a set of paper
towels.

1201
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:14,840
He was a clean freak, a neat
freak or, like, germs.

1202
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,840
So, like, you would have this
whole herd of little girls

1203
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,680
running around with this bucket
of cleaning supplies after him,

1204
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,320
hoping to get picked by, you
know, clean something.

1205
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:25,880
Yeah.
He'd clean everything.

1206
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:31,280
I mean, stupidly clean and pray
over everything with olive oil.

1207
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,240
So like you didn't use anything
until you have olive oil.

1208
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,840
Like just, yeah, just he had
some crazy corks that.

1209
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:39,720
Yeah.
So paper towel girls.

1210
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:44,040
And then you had the little, the
teenage boys that were on his

1211
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,760
good graces that would kind of
go out and beat everybody up,

1212
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,320
whoever he sent them after those
kids.

1213
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:53,560
And then you had the adults that
were in his good graces at that

1214
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,960
time because it always changed
what anybody did or thought or

1215
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:01,440
said or whatever.
And they were all coming down

1216
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:06,200
towards where we were.
And they caught us in the middle

1217
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:13,240
of beating this guy up.
And he proceeded to ask us what

1218
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:17,360
was going on.
And of course, we told him what

1219
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:20,560
he did.
And US, brother, he made the

1220
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,840
boys like put their tongue out
or whatever.

1221
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:28,760
And we were told that good job,
you know, congratulations, look

1222
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,840
at them, step up, blah, blah,
blah, and all of that stuff and

1223
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:35,160
congratulating us, making us
like look really good.

1224
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,840
And he yelled at the guy that
did it and told him what an evil

1225
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:39,720
person he was and all of that
stuff.

1226
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,240
And then later on, that was
Saturday, on a Sunday morning

1227
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:49,760
afterwards, I was up in the
kitchen working on the cabinets.

1228
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:56,200
And I was told you a bad girl,
you don't do things like that.

1229
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,960
You need to stop.
If things like that happen, you

1230
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:02,720
need to go let Rama know.
And you're not supposed to take

1231
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:06,160
it upon yourself to save the
little kids.

1232
01:17:07,480 --> 01:17:11,240
Well, I pretty much said, OK,
yeah, not.

1233
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:16,760
And my younger brother, who at
the time was part of my clique,

1234
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,520
we were this He had a stuttering
problem.

1235
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,680
I think he had some kind of
neurological problem.

1236
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:27,480
I don't know what he stuttered.
And when he would get nervous or

1237
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,160
upset.
Did the power just go off?

1238
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,320
No, it's just these lights turn
off.

1239
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:33,680
OK, All right.
Sorry.

1240
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:38,400
When he would get upset he would
like shake and physically do

1241
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:44,000
like just get like so anxiety
ridden that I would literally

1242
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:48,240
have to sit out on him and hold
him down and like get him to

1243
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:55,040
calm down and he would.
I would call Fitz anyway. him

1244
01:17:55,040 --> 01:18:00,400
and I were on the same category
as stubbornness and being told

1245
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:04,280
what to do, not liking it so to
speak.

1246
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:07,600
He had a little bit of a
disadvantage because he wasn't

1247
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:13,680
as big as me and, well, I could
throw a fist or throw a punch, I

1248
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:17,600
should say, you know, And I
wasn't afraid to.

1249
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,400
I wasn't afraid to beat up the
boys.

1250
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:23,040
Us girls had to.
We had to.

1251
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,640
If they even a little shade,
they would throw our way.

1252
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:27,640
You had to.
Otherwise they would run over

1253
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,480
you in that environment.
Yeah, you had to, Yes.

1254
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:32,920
I mean, yes, literally.
Could you?

1255
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,000
Stand up for a second just so
the lights will come up.

1256
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:37,880
Thank you.
Just kind of move around a

1257
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,520
little bit.
There we go.

1258
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:43,720
Well, just can you rock a circle
or something?

1259
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:45,720
Perfect.
Thank you.

1260
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:51,120
That's funny, now I forgot what
I.

1261
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:56,320
Was it's OK, you were your
brother had the problem and then

1262
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:59,520
but you were on the same page.
Yeah, so we stuck together with

1263
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:03,240
everything pretty much because I
was his protector, because the

1264
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:05,880
boys would pick on him and get
him to stutter and, you know,

1265
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:10,160
like all of that stuff.
So the weekend after I got

1266
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:15,760
warned to stop my crap and to
break my little click apart.

1267
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:23,400
I forget exactly what happened,
but I got into a not an

1268
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:26,160
argument, but I asked Rama again
why?

1269
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:32,320
What it was that he was asking
or why was he doing the things

1270
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:36,880
that he was doing?
And I don't remember his, his.

1271
01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:41,000
That's the word I'm looking for.
Like his answer?

1272
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:42,920
Yeah, I don't remember his
answer.

1273
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,720
The line between like, well,
maybe he's right, maybe he's

1274
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:47,480
wrong, whatever.
You don't really have a set.

1275
01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:52,360
Direction, Yes, yes.
And within that, I would say

1276
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:55,480
week, well, maybe it had been
like the next weekend or the

1277
01:19:55,480 --> 01:20:02,000
weekend after I got shipped off
to my oldest sister's house and

1278
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,000
my brother got shipped off to
India.

1279
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:10,600
He had built a school in India,
or he says that it's a school,

1280
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,600
it's a small school, college or
whatever.

1281
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,560
I haven't.
Well, let's just say we're not

1282
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:19,960
going to get into that.
He has a school in India and he

1283
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,560
would ship a bunch of kids and
stuff off to India.

1284
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:26,640
And my brother got shipped off
to India and I got shipped off

1285
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:30,360
to my sister's house in Green
Bay.

1286
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,440
After the beating.
Yes, yes.

1287
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:38,800
Well, after he told me to stop
the beating, I questioned him.

1288
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,640
Right after, yeah.
And then yeah, yeah, I so I

1289
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,320
think it was like from the
beating happened, me beating

1290
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:49,680
that guy up and then like when I
got kicked out was probably like

1291
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:51,760
3 weeks to a month.
Got it.

1292
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:59,680
And he told Rama told my brother
later on I found out, told my

1293
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,680
brother that it was because I
had told him that he was doing

1294
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:06,200
drugs, which was not the case at
all.

1295
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:08,760
So, you know, pitting one
against and.

1296
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:10,840
As tight as you were, your
brother probably knew that that

1297
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:13,680
wasn't true.
Like, yeah, but when you get

1298
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:17,120
told something over and over and
over and you have no safe

1299
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:21,360
keeping anywhere, you start to
have to believe the things they

1300
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,040
say to you, I suppose.
Nor for you to survive.

1301
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,680
Sure you have to.
There's a part of you that you

1302
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:30,320
just have to lock away and put
away.

1303
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:34,120
And until you can get out of
that environment and away by

1304
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:39,080
yourself, does that unlock and
it come out again because you

1305
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,080
it's almost like a it's a
survival mechanism.

1306
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:46,120
Yes, you have to.
And I do believe that that

1307
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:48,520
happened to him because he is
still in the cult.

1308
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:51,480
And it is because he's still in,
he is.

1309
01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:55,240
He's the only one of my siblings
and parents that are still in.

1310
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:57,920
Is he back from India?
Though he is back from India, he

1311
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:00,920
was over there for like a year,
year and a half I do believe and

1312
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:03,280
then he came back.
But by then the damage was

1313
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:05,360
pretty done.
And I do believe like all the

1314
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:10,920
neurological issues that he had
and stuff, you know, when you're

1315
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:15,360
briated like that 24/7 by people
and you like, he didn't have

1316
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:17,000
anybody there, you know what I
mean?

1317
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:19,400
Like, he didn't have me.
He didn't have anybody to say,

1318
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:23,160
hey, you know, he just had a
bunch of other traumatized

1319
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:28,560
children like there and one
crazy adult woman who used to

1320
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:33,720
hug Rama's leg when she first
came in, you know, So he was

1321
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:39,960
around some pretty crazy mental
manipulation kind of stuff in

1322
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:44,440
India.
And well, so he was sent away.

1323
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:48,640
And well, I went to live with my
sister Abby, who and honestly, I

1324
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:51,440
don't remember if she was
married, I should really ask her

1325
01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:55,160
if she was married to this guy
or if it was just her boyfriend

1326
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,800
at the time.
But she did end up marrying him.

1327
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:02,080
And anyway.
And they weren't in at the time.

1328
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,000
They weren't in the call.
Well, no, they were in the

1329
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:06,000
college.
They were in the Yeah.

1330
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:11,120
So my oldest sister, when she
got older, she left and went to

1331
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,480
college.
And while she was in college,

1332
01:23:13,480 --> 01:23:17,200
she met this guy and started
dating him.

1333
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:20,520
And then I call what she was
like a fencer.

1334
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:23,000
She wasn't really out.
She was out in the real world

1335
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:25,000
experiencing college, blah,
blah, blah.

1336
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:29,440
But she still called and talked
to Rama and had like a full

1337
01:23:29,440 --> 01:23:32,800
blown relationship.
Still was not cut off from my

1338
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,720
parents or anything like that.
So she was not out.

1339
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:39,600
She was just, I don't know,
living a double life.

1340
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:46,280
And she brought this guy that
she was dating in to meet Rama

1341
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,320
because she wanted approval,
blah blah blah.

1342
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:54,200
Well, he was bipolar and had
some mental issues himself and

1343
01:23:54,200 --> 01:24:01,080
got sucked into Rama's hardcore,
like hardcore and took it to the

1344
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:06,080
extreme and the bad extreme.
He got very controlling very

1345
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:14,280
fast and out of all the abuse
and everything that went on in

1346
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:19,920
the cult itself in our house, my
biological parents did not

1347
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,520
scream at one another, did not
yell at one another.

1348
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:27,440
There was no physical abuse
whatsoever in any way, shape or

1349
01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:30,080
form.
And if any of us kids

1350
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:34,040
disrespected my biological
mother, my biological father,

1351
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:38,200
like literally my brother, I
think he called her a BIT CH1

1352
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:40,720
time and he had him by the
throat up again.

1353
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,360
So all you do not speak to your
mother like that period.

1354
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:45,720
End a conversation.
So there was a certain amount of

1355
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:51,840
respect in the house, even
though we knew women were less

1356
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,720
than, girls were less than in
the cult or whatever.

1357
01:24:54,760 --> 01:25:00,840
I hadn't personally, up close,
seen that kind of abuse or

1358
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:06,200
experienced that kind of abuse,
and it was a daily thing for him

1359
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:08,560
to have her up against the wall
by her throat.

1360
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:10,520
And that's when you're.
Living her life in Green Bay,

1361
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:14,080
yes.
And she would always excuse it

1362
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:18,720
and say it's his mental issues,
it's because he's crazy, blah,

1363
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:21,600
blah, blah, or whatever.
He went off his medication or

1364
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:25,640
whatever her excuses were.
It was crazy.

1365
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:28,480
It was crazy.
I mean, I saw him try to kill

1366
01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:33,240
her on numerous occasions.
I mean, do crazy things like she

1367
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:36,040
would try to him to getting out
of the car number, don't go

1368
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:38,600
anywhere or whatever.
He was having a manic state or

1369
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,960
whatever it was that she would
say that he was.

1370
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:43,600
She just wouldn't do what he
wanted.

1371
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:45,240
So then he would throw a temper
tantrum.

1372
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:48,920
Literally that's what it was.
And he threatened to like go

1373
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:52,680
drive out into the highway.
So she reaches in to like get

1374
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:55,160
the keys from him and he
literally grabs a hold of her

1375
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:58,520
arm and starts screaming
backwards with the vehicle and

1376
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:02,240
she's being dragged as he's
holding her into the main

1377
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:06,520
streets of Green Bay.
Like just crazy stuff like, and

1378
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:11,160
it was 24/7.
It didn't matter what you always

1379
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:14,400
it's like walking on egg shells
that you didn't know if a noise

1380
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:16,280
was going to tick him off.
You didn't know.

1381
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,760
Like one time I was crushing
ramen noodles to make ramen

1382
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:21,960
noodles, which was a treat for
us because we weren't supposed

1383
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:24,520
to have ramen noodles.
They were a sin for us.

1384
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:28,200
But because he was a newbie, he
quite hadn't gotten that rule

1385
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:30,120
yet.
So he still had ramen noodles in

1386
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:32,280
his house.
And so I was all taking

1387
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:34,200
advantage of eating ramen
noodles.

1388
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:39,480
And so we were, I was crushing
it and apparently the rapper and

1389
01:26:39,480 --> 01:26:42,480
the sound of crushing the ramen
noodles made him mad.

1390
01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:46,760
And he came up behind me with
his first and everything went

1391
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:48,440
flying.
And my sister is trying to jump

1392
01:26:48,440 --> 01:26:52,960
in between to like get him so he
won't continue towards me, you

1393
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:54,240
know what I mean?
And pull back.

1394
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,360
Well, she ended up getting
shoved and put up against the

1395
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,640
wall.
There were many times where I

1396
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,960
ducked down underneath and like
pushed him off of her to get,

1397
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:04,840
you know, just crazy stuff like
that.

1398
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:10,720
Well, they put me in school
while I was living with them, so

1399
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,720
I was going to school and.
For basically the first time

1400
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:16,240
ever.
Yes, other than the little short

1401
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:19,240
stent in 6th grade that I did.
At this point you're like 12.

1402
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:25,480
At this point I was 13.
Yes, 13, and I believe I had

1403
01:27:25,480 --> 01:27:29,360
just started my freshman year or
something like that. 13,

1404
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:31,640
something like that.
I know I was going to a high

1405
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:33,840
school.
I don't remember Southwest High

1406
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,360
School, I think it was.
Was there built in education

1407
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:39,080
prior to that where you had like
a foundational understanding of

1408
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,520
like math and English and stuff?
Not really.

1409
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:44,640
I mean they did like
homeschooling, like American

1410
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:46,960
homeschool was one of the
programs that they did.

1411
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,480
But I would just steal their
other kids tests because we were

1412
01:27:49,480 --> 01:27:51,440
all doing the same thing and we
would just copy each other's

1413
01:27:51,440 --> 01:27:53,920
tests and then sent mail them in
and the tests would come back

1414
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,160
like, oh, you got 100%.
They had no clue that, you know,

1415
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:06,760
like we just so no, there was no
other than when before, when I

1416
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:10,360
was younger, my two older
sisters had kind of moved out

1417
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:15,880
and my biological mother went
back to school and she was going

1418
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:20,400
to school for a short period of
time to finish her college

1419
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:23,160
degree or whatever.
And Rama had gone to India for

1420
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,240
another like trip.
And during that time she had put

1421
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:30,120
all the kids into public school.
But me because I was the oldest

1422
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:33,400
girl and I would need, she
needed a babysitter.

1423
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:35,560
So pretty much I took care of
the kids.

1424
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:38,320
So I would get up, get my two
older brothers up.

1425
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,000
They would get on the bus and
then I would wake up.

1426
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:48,400
Let's see the four younger ones.
And then they would get on the

1427
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:51,880
bus and then I would have the
youngest one and then she would

1428
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:55,520
get on the bus at noon.
And then I would sometimes ride

1429
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:59,080
with her, go to Shopko, steal
stuff, and then get on the bus

1430
01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:01,320
and come home with like the kids
or whatever.

1431
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:08,480
And that's so all my siblings
got to go to school, but I did

1432
01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:10,480
not.
But I learned a lot of stuff

1433
01:29:10,480 --> 01:29:14,480
from teaching them or helping
them with their homework, so to

1434
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:16,240
speak.
So you know it's still a.

1435
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,000
Trip though to jump in and
freshman year or eighth grade

1436
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:20,960
and just like try to go to
class.

1437
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:25,400
After it was very hard and I
struggled very hard to be even.

1438
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:28,480
I mean, I remember one time
asking my English teacher, I

1439
01:29:28,480 --> 01:29:33,000
think it was my senior year, and
I was trying to figure out there

1440
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,560
was a couple of papers or
whatever I would pay my sister,

1441
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:38,880
my adopt sister, after I to do
my homework for me.

1442
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:42,960
Nice.
So she would write my papers for

1443
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:47,200
me and I got caught and so I was
sitting in study hall trying to

1444
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,680
do 1 and I asked her how to
spell beautiful.

1445
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:52,560
And she looked at me like I was
crazy for asking her how to

1446
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:54,440
spell beautiful.
But I was like, there's no

1447
01:29:54,440 --> 01:29:56,040
sound.
Like I don't know how to, you

1448
01:29:56,040 --> 01:29:59,000
know, I couldn't sound it out.
And I didn't really know phonics

1449
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:03,640
because we didn't learn phonics
and I was also dyslexic, which

1450
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:06,560
they didn't really know.
So anytime anybody did try to

1451
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:11,760
teach me anything, I just, yeah,
you know, I didn't want anything

1452
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:13,040
to do with it.
What a trick.

1453
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,880
So.
So question I want to keep going

1454
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:20,800
with that, but why did they I I
should have asked this earlier,

1455
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:24,520
why did they send you to your
sister's house but they were

1456
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:28,840
still in the cult too to.
To separate me from because I

1457
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:33,440
was becoming a bad influence on
the other children and they

1458
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:35,440
didn't.
Go every weekend or whatever.

1459
01:30:35,440 --> 01:30:38,160
No, they went every weekend, so
I saw them every weekend but

1460
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:40,320
during the week.
OK, then you weren't around.

1461
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:42,560
I wasn't around all my other
siblings.

1462
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:44,640
And he would do that with all
all.

1463
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:48,080
He would transport children,
teenagers that would get a

1464
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:50,920
little bit older into other
families to keep them separate

1465
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:53,600
and families that you didn't
know, like you weren't in

1466
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:54,720
control.
And yeah.

1467
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:56,600
He could pick where the ones
went.

1468
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:57,640
OK, got it.
Yes.

1469
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:00,800
So you just never had any true
allies.

1470
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,440
You were constantly, you know,
be moved around.

1471
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,520
Just the Rama.
Yes, correct, correct.

1472
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:08,320
Got it.
So then you start school.

1473
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:14,880
Yes, well, I became very brave
and I used to take the city bus

1474
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:18,520
from the house to the school.
Well, on the city bus or at the

1475
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:23,680
bus stop before I would quickly
change into street clothes or

1476
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:27,560
city clothes as I called them.
No skirt, take my hair down, I'd

1477
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,120
wear jeans and AT shirt.
And that's how I go to school.

1478
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:33,360
I was wondering that the whole
time, so there was like a dress

1479
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:34,840
code.
Type Oh yes, got it.

1480
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,520
You were buttoned up from, you
know, and sometimes rounded

1481
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:42,440
collars were OK, some for some
periods, other times it wasn't

1482
01:31:42,440 --> 01:31:43,960
OK.
Sometimes you could go short

1483
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:45,920
sleeve, other times you couldn't
go short sleeve.

1484
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:49,200
It just depended on his, his
mood, mood or whatever that

1485
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:52,440
thing.
So yeah, blouse and a skirt,

1486
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:55,360
that was it.
And your hair up in a bun in the

1487
01:31:55,360 --> 01:32:02,720
back.
So I went to school with heathen

1488
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:04,920
clothes in the end of my civvy
clothes.

1489
01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:10,520
And one day I was in computer
class and I just felt something

1490
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:12,520
behind me.
And I turned around and looked

1491
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:16,040
and it was my brother-in-law
standing behind me.

1492
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:24,720
And my hair is down and I'm in
civvy clothes and his face says

1493
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:29,760
it all.
I don't even say anything.

1494
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:33,480
I just turn back and look at the
computer and I just like sit

1495
01:32:33,480 --> 01:32:36,000
there.
And honestly I don't remember if

1496
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:38,000
he told me to meet him in the
office or not.

1497
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:41,320
I don't remember.
But he flipped around and walked

1498
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:45,560
out the door while at the same
time I got up and I walked out

1499
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:48,520
the other door and I went to my
locker.

1500
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:54,440
And as I was getting my stuff
out of my locker, I noticed down

1501
01:32:54,440 --> 01:32:59,880
the hallway an exit door.
And I thought like this, I'm not

1502
01:32:59,880 --> 01:33:04,160
going back.
I am not like I knew what I was

1503
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:09,640
going to face was unspeakable
and I was not going to face it.

1504
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:11,920
I was not, I was not going to
get my head shaved.

1505
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:15,400
I was not going to get spit on
because that that was a level of

1506
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:19,280
that was the next punishment
that was coming for me because I

1507
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:21,800
have not been listening and all
of that stuff.

1508
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:23,680
So I thought screw it, I'm just
out of here.

1509
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:28,200
And so out the door I went.
I waited until school got out.

1510
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:31,760
I followed the boy that I had
so-called dating.

1511
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:33,760
I I only saw him during school
or whatever.

1512
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:36,160
So we weren't really dating, but
you know how that goes.

1513
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:40,920
I went to his house and nobody
knew about him at all.

1514
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,040
So they didn't know where he
lived or anything.

1515
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:50,720
And I pretty much just stayed at
his house until his parents were

1516
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:53,080
like, uh, no, she needs to
leave.

1517
01:33:53,240 --> 01:33:56,240
Like she can't stay here.
Like what's going on here?

1518
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:58,640
So I would hurry up and say no,
no, I'll leave.

1519
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:03,080
And I would go like hook up with
somebody else to stay at their

1520
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:07,920
house or anyway, that went on
for like 2 weeks, 2 1/2 weeks,

1521
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:10,400
something like that.
And I ended up staying at this

1522
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:12,280
girl's house who was not very
good.

1523
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:16,160
And her and her mom got into a
big huge fight at like one 2:00

1524
01:34:16,160 --> 01:34:18,840
in the morning.
And literally her mom kicked me

1525
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:21,400
out on the streets of Green Bay
at 2:00 in the morning, at 2:00

1526
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:23,480
in the morning.
So I was just wandering the

1527
01:34:23,480 --> 01:34:25,600
streets, literally just
wandering the streets.

1528
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:27,600
I had nowhere to go.
I was just wandering.

1529
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,160
I I was fine.
And again, you're like 13 at

1530
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:36,560
this.
Time 14/13/13 yes I think I was

1531
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:40,520
13.
I'd be turning 14 that summer so

1532
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:45,280
13.
Anyway I saw a cop car drive

1533
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:50,520
down and I hurry up and ducked
underneath a tree trying to hide

1534
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:55,440
from him and he saw me and
proceeded to pull out the

1535
01:34:55,440 --> 01:35:01,160
spotlight and hey I see you.
And he literally said to me why

1536
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:03,760
did you run?
I wasn't going to stop or do

1537
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:05,680
anything.
The fact that you ran made me

1538
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:09,200
pull the stop the spotlight.
He goes you look like an adult.

1539
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:12,240
And anyway he asked for my name.
I wouldn't give it to him.

1540
01:35:12,480 --> 01:35:15,800
He finally got me to tell him
what my first name was.

1541
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:18,080
I misspelled it.
I wouldn't give it to the right

1542
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:22,640
spelling or whatever.
They had reported me as a

1543
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:25,400
runaway.
Your brother-in-law and sister.

1544
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:28,560
Yes, yeah.
So he literally picked me up

1545
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:32,120
because I was reported as a
runaway, took me back to the cop

1546
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:35,880
shop, and I remember him asking
me all kinds of questions and I

1547
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:38,080
just zipped my lips.
I wouldn't say anything.

1548
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:41,280
I was like, I, I don't trust
you.

1549
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:43,840
Well, we don't have any trust in
any of the authorities.

1550
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:46,240
And all the authorities that I
ever went to, they didn't really

1551
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:48,960
do anything anyway.
So it wasn't really worth my

1552
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:52,040
time or effort to explain all of
this and say all of this.

1553
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:55,400
You're just going to say, oh,
well, anyway, you got to go with

1554
01:35:55,400 --> 01:36:03,760
them because that's law anyway.
So they called, I'm assuming my

1555
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:07,720
sister and her boyfriend or
husband, and they came to the

1556
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:11,400
cop shop to pick me up and I
just adamantly refused.

1557
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:13,880
I know I'm not going with them.
I am not.

1558
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:17,600
You are not going to make me.
And I literally hugged my chair

1559
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:21,200
and the cops were like, we can't
release her to you.

1560
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:24,800
You need to go get her
biological father or biological

1561
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:26,600
parents and they have to come
pick her up.

1562
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:30,440
So my biological father came and
picked me up.

1563
01:36:31,480 --> 01:36:34,840
I got into the vehicle, not a
word was spoken between us.

1564
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:40,400
Silenced the entire trip from
Green Bay back to Shawno, my

1565
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:43,760
family house or whatever.
I walked in the door.

1566
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:49,000
My biological mother said to me,
you need to go call brother.

1567
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:53,200
And after I got done saying hi
to my siblings because they were

1568
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:55,560
all like, oh, she's back.
What excitement?

1569
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:59,120
Like everything that happened,
you know, they're all excited

1570
01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:02,400
because, you know, here's the
horrible person back in here and

1571
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:03,840
she can tell us everything that
went on.

1572
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:06,960
What is it like on the outside?
Oh my goodness, you got to do so

1573
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:07,880
much.
You what?

1574
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:11,520
Anyway, so I went and got the
phone.

1575
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:15,640
Now any time that you talk to
Brother or Rama, you had to

1576
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:17,920
kneel, even if it was on the
phone.

1577
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:23,360
So I grab the phone.
I go into and then you gotta

1578
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:24,840
remember the cord.
We had the cord back then.

1579
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:26,360
You didn't have cell phones back
then.

1580
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:30,080
So the phone was on the wall and
I took the cord and like

1581
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:32,640
literally walked all the way
across the living room into my

1582
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:36,200
biological parents bedroom,
closed the door.

1583
01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:41,120
I remember kneeling and saying
yes brother.

1584
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,920
And he goes, they found you,
yes, brother.

1585
01:37:44,920 --> 01:37:48,360
And him saying you need to
apologize and Sunday morning

1586
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:50,280
meeting in order for you to come
back.

1587
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:52,800
Do you understand?
Yes, brother.

1588
01:37:53,080 --> 01:38:00,480
And then explaining something
about nor to continue going.

1589
01:38:00,480 --> 01:38:04,160
I would have to shape up and
pretty much I just said yes

1590
01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:07,040
brother and listen to him Rambo
for about 5 or 6 minutes or

1591
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:09,440
something like that.
I don't remember the full extent

1592
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:13,600
and pretty much said, no, I'm
OK, All right, Hung up the

1593
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:15,680
phone, went over to my
biological mother.

1594
01:38:15,680 --> 01:38:19,440
She asked me what was said.
I just said I have to stand up

1595
01:38:19,440 --> 01:38:22,920
and apologize Sunday morning for
running away.

1596
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:26,160
And she asked me if I was going
to do it.

1597
01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:28,080
And I just said, well, I don't
know.

1598
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:32,720
I can't lie, but I don't know.
And I believe that that I don't

1599
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:36,200
remember if that was a Thursday
or a Wednesday.

1600
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:40,440
It was during the middle of the
week so I don't remember if it

1601
01:38:40,440 --> 01:38:43,280
was Wednesday or Thursday or
Tuesday or something like that.

1602
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:46,640
But there was like a 2 day
conversation where her and I

1603
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:51,640
talked about whether or not I
was going to apologize.

1604
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:59,360
And pretty much it got to be
Thursday and she was downstairs

1605
01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:02,360
doing laundry and I remember
standing down there with her

1606
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:11,400
doing laundry and her just me
asking her why she wanted me so

1607
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:16,040
badly to apologize for something
that I didn't think I was like

1608
01:39:16,040 --> 01:39:18,880
wrong or whatever.
And she kept saying that 'cause

1609
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:22,080
it's the right thing to do.
And it wasn't a good enough

1610
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:25,640
answer for me.
Like that wasn't good enough for

1611
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:29,080
me to stand up and lie to the
whole congregation.

1612
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:31,960
Because in all honesty, I was
not sorry.

1613
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:34,120
I enjoyed my time so much.
I'm serious.

1614
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:37,200
Like I had so much fun when I
ran away those 2 1/2 weeks.

1615
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:41,560
Like I the food that I ate that
I had never experienced was

1616
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:43,920
amazing.
The people that I talked to were

1617
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:46,920
amazing, even if they were on
the wrong side of the tracks it

1618
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:50,880
they were nicer than anything
that I had come across.

1619
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:56,040
Yeah, after I was just, yes.
I mean, I enjoyed my 2 and a 2

1620
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:58,120
1/2 weeks or two weeks or
whatever it was.

1621
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:01,960
I really did.
I did not want to go back in any

1622
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:05,440
way shape or form.
And so I was not sorry.

1623
01:40:05,440 --> 01:40:09,160
I was actually giddy and excited
that I had done what I had done.

1624
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:14,720
And so I was really trying to
struggle within myself how to

1625
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:19,880
justify going in and apologizing
in front of God and everybody.

1626
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:22,640
Like legitly, these were my
thoughts in my brain.

1627
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,880
Like, how am I going to justify?
I don't want the earth to open

1628
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:29,640
up and me to fire it, fall into
the burning fiery pit of hell

1629
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,440
down there, 'cause I legitly
thought that that was going to

1630
01:40:32,440 --> 01:40:34,360
happen.
I really thought that that's

1631
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:38,680
what happened.
And so I just, I was like, I

1632
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:41,960
can't, I can't, I can't stand up
and lie.

1633
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:45,120
I don't lie.
You can't tell me to lie.

1634
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:48,680
I've never lied.
Like white lies, yes, calling my

1635
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:53,120
brother ugly, yes, those kind of
things, getting him to punch me,

1636
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:54,920
yes, you know, bumblebee with
glasses on.

1637
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:57,360
And then he tries to punch me.
I duck, he goes fist goes

1638
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:59,480
through the window, you know,
like that kind of stuff.

1639
01:40:59,480 --> 01:41:03,240
Yes, but never.
And especially before God in

1640
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:07,080
like church in front of
everybody, like Sunday mornings

1641
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:09,880
are the most holy time.
Like you're asking me to stand

1642
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:11,360
up in front of everybody and
lie.

1643
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:16,360
And she just couldn't tell me a
good reason why I should lie

1644
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:18,720
other than it was the right
thing to do.

1645
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:25,160
And so I just was really
conflicted inside as to what to

1646
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:26,640
do.
I didn't know what to do.

1647
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:32,360
And I remember like walking up,
like leaving the basement and

1648
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:37,360
going to walk up the stairs and
turned around and I said to her

1649
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:39,920
and she was looking at me.
We were facing one another.

1650
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:44,080
And I was on like the second or
third step going up the stairs.

1651
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:47,480
And I just turned and looked at
her and said I love you.

1652
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:50,720
Now, where those words came
from, I do not know.

1653
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:53,600
We didn't say those words at
all.

1654
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:56,400
I had never heard my mother say
that to my father.

1655
01:41:56,400 --> 01:41:58,120
I had never heard her say that
to us.

1656
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:00,720
I had never heard another
congregation member say that to

1657
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:03,360
anybody.
Nobody said those words to one

1658
01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:05,880
another.
But in that moment, I just

1659
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:08,800
wanted her to know that I loved
her and I didn't.

1660
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:11,520
Honestly, it was just something
that came from within me.

1661
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:13,480
And I said those words.
I love you.

1662
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:20,560
She turned her back on me,
didn't say a word, just turned

1663
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:25,080
her back and stood there.
Not a peep.

1664
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:29,080
Nothing.
That in that moment sealed my

1665
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:32,560
deal.
Nope, I am not apologizing.

1666
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:39,280
If she would have said the words
I love you back to me, I would

1667
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:44,640
have apologized and I would have
decided that would have been my

1668
01:42:44,640 --> 01:42:51,120
next chink in the chained to do
more wrong.

1669
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:53,760
You understand what I'm saying?
Like we all face those and that

1670
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:56,400
was like, I will never forget
that, like me thinking.

1671
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:58,760
That was a pivotal point for you
where you could have you would

1672
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:00,560
have stayed in or ultimately
what's.

1673
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:02,680
Going to happen and if I would
have stayed in I would have been

1674
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:05,000
gung ho I would have been like
my brother I would have been a

1675
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:08,680
die hard because I would never
have been able to live with

1676
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:12,200
myself knowing that I knew
better.

1677
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:14,600
You understand what I'm saying
and not you know, so.

1678
01:43:14,600 --> 01:43:16,120
You'd have lived with so much
shame, yeah.

1679
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:20,640
Yes, yes, in hindsight, 2020,
yes, that was a lot.

1680
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:22,960
It caused me a lot of trauma,
but it was probably the best

1681
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:25,600
thing in my life that's ever
happened to me.

1682
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:26,480
There's.
A path out right?

1683
01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:31,720
Yes, yes.
So that just sealed the in my

1684
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:33,000
brain.
That sealed the deal.

1685
01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:36,920
I was not going to apologize.
And I pretty much let her know

1686
01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:38,520
that I wasn't going to
apologize.

1687
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:43,760
So Friday came around and before
they left I disappeared into the

1688
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:47,120
woods because I was still
worried that they were going to

1689
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:51,480
drag me back forcefully and make
me apologize.

1690
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:55,400
So you ran off into the woods?
So I ran off into the woods to

1691
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:58,800
hide so that way they couldn't
find me and they would have to

1692
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:01,960
leave and go because they had to
be there at a certain time.

1693
01:44:02,600 --> 01:44:08,560
And they left and I spent the
next Friday night, well after

1694
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:11,360
they left, I went and raided the
refrigerator and anything else

1695
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:13,600
that I could get into.
But before they got home, I was

1696
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:16,400
back out in the woods and I
slept out in the woods and I

1697
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:18,680
just made sure that they
couldn't drag me back.

1698
01:44:19,320 --> 01:44:26,760
And the next week, I believe it
was Monday or whatever, my mom

1699
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:29,440
had the conversation or my
biological mother had a

1700
01:44:29,440 --> 01:44:35,640
conversation with me about me no
longer being allowed to like be

1701
01:44:35,640 --> 01:44:41,160
in the house or yeah, the first
week was I couldn't be in the

1702
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:45,040
house.
The second, what week was I

1703
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,640
couldn't be like in the
backyard.

1704
01:44:48,120 --> 01:44:51,520
The third week was I couldn't be
in the front yard.

1705
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:55,680
And then like the 4th week was,
I couldn't even stand by the

1706
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:59,720
mailbox which was at the end of
the driveway to see my siblings.

1707
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:02,960
I would then stand in the
neighbor's yard across the road.

1708
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:09,640
Now, mind you, when they told me
that I couldn't go anymore, I

1709
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:13,680
did not realize that my
biological parents were also

1710
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:16,360
going to kick me out of my
house.

1711
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:20,280
That was not I knew I wouldn't
go to the like, you know,

1712
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:22,600
congregation.
I wouldn't go to the compound.

1713
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:24,320
I wouldn't have anything to do
with that.

1714
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:28,440
But I did not in my brain put
the two and two together that I

1715
01:45:28,440 --> 01:45:33,920
would literally be living on the
streets, that I would not be in

1716
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:38,160
the house, you know, like I that
did not comprehend in my brain

1717
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:40,440
when that whole process was
going on.

1718
01:45:42,160 --> 01:45:50,520
So yeah, that was a little bit
of a like heart crushing kind of

1719
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:54,960
thing, but I knew it was coming.
The other heart crushing thing

1720
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:58,120
was when I knew that they had
taken all my personal belongings

1721
01:45:58,120 --> 01:46:00,160
that I had left behind and burnt
them.

1722
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:05,560
And like literally they had, my
biological parents had cut all

1723
01:46:05,560 --> 01:46:10,120
ties with me in their eyes.
And so that was really hard

1724
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:13,840
because as I said, I was raising
my siblings.

1725
01:46:14,200 --> 01:46:19,160
And so my baby brother, who was
like 4 when I started really

1726
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:22,480
taking care of well, I pretty
much took care of him from the

1727
01:46:22,480 --> 01:46:24,360
day he was born.
He was my little doll.

1728
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:27,720
I took him everywhere.
And then when she was going to

1729
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,000
school, he was attached to my
hip.

1730
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:34,480
I did everything with him and he
was about four years old when I

1731
01:46:34,480 --> 01:46:39,080
was kicked out, so losing him
was just devastating to me.

1732
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:42,480
My little sister, that was
devastating to me.

1733
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:48,160
My parents, not so much.
The house, not so much, but my

1734
01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:51,920
siblings.
This, the protective instinct

1735
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:55,360
that I had was so strong, and
those were the things that

1736
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:57,520
bothered me a lot.
Those were the hard parts.

1737
01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:01,320
And so in that.
Transition period when they said

1738
01:47:01,320 --> 01:47:04,000
not the backyard, not the front
yard, now out by the mailbox.

1739
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:05,840
Were you sleeping outside?
Yeah.

1740
01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:09,800
So I would sleep out in the
archery house that the US kids

1741
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:13,560
built out in the woods or we had
like a what I call a van body or

1742
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:19,560
like this like like container, I
guess out in the back that

1743
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:23,640
sometimes I would sleep in if it
was like really bad out because

1744
01:47:24,480 --> 01:47:27,440
it was still there was still
snow on the ground when they

1745
01:47:27,440 --> 01:47:30,200
kicked me out, but it wasn't it
was like the beginning of

1746
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:32,360
spring, but still a little bit
of snow.

1747
01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:36,720
So like the public bathrooms and
stuff were open, but like none

1748
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:38,880
of the showers were on or
anything like that.

1749
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:42,280
And we lived right next to the
county park, like a mile away

1750
01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:45,400
from the county park.
So I spent a lot of time at the

1751
01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:48,000
county park and I would just
hang out at the county park.

1752
01:47:48,360 --> 01:47:53,040
And before I got kicked out, I
used to take my siblings during

1753
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:56,520
the week and we used to sneak
down to the county park and go

1754
01:47:56,520 --> 01:48:00,680
swimming.
And I had met a older lady who

1755
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:05,560
lived right next to the county
park and she would dry our

1756
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:09,240
clothes for us or give us
bathing suits to go swimming in.

1757
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:13,080
And so I kind of knew somebody
down there.

1758
01:48:14,240 --> 01:48:18,960
And so when I got kicked out, I
went down there or whatever, she

1759
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:21,280
would see me and I would stop in
and say hi.

1760
01:48:21,280 --> 01:48:25,480
Well, her daughter was going
through a divorce at the time

1761
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:28,920
and lived down there, and she
had four children.

1762
01:48:29,280 --> 01:48:36,240
And at the like, by the time I
had gotten kicked out and all

1763
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:38,840
those weeks or whatever, first
week, second week or whatever,

1764
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:41,480
she had just gotten a house
rented.

1765
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:46,000
And so she bartended and
waitressed at a local

1766
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:47,920
restaurant.
But she needed someone to watch

1767
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:52,080
the kids at night and in the
afternoon, and I needed someone

1768
01:48:52,720 --> 01:48:57,160
to sleep.
And so the older lady told me

1769
01:48:57,240 --> 01:49:00,440
that, hey, she needs a
babysitter.

1770
01:49:00,440 --> 01:49:03,600
You're a teenager, you need
money, do you want to babysit?

1771
01:49:03,920 --> 01:49:05,880
And I thought, Ding, Ding, Ding,
Ding, Ding.

1772
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:08,640
And did the old lady know that
you were just kicked out of your

1773
01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:09,080
house?
No.

1774
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:10,080
She.
Didn't.

1775
01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:11,560
No clue.
None whatsoever.

1776
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:15,600
None.
I didn't tell anybody and I met

1777
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:21,040
the lady who needed a babysitter
and we got along great and she

1778
01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:24,160
was like fantastic, you're here
like all the time.

1779
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:29,680
And so I started babysitting for
her that like spring and

1780
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:34,160
eventually she would say to me,
don't you need to go home?

1781
01:49:34,160 --> 01:49:35,280
You've been here for like 3
days.

1782
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:36,520
That's.
What I was just going to ask you

1783
01:49:36,520 --> 01:49:37,720
need to go home.
Where?

1784
01:49:38,480 --> 01:49:40,320
You and I would leave.
Well, I would.

1785
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:42,840
I was really good at pretending
to leave.

1786
01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:45,640
So she would get home, I'd wake
up in the morning and I would

1787
01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:49,280
leave and go wander around and,
you know, and then come back

1788
01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:53,080
when she needed me.
And then, you know, but as time

1789
01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:58,400
got went by and I got more
comfortable, I just didn't

1790
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:00,360
leave.
And I would kind of lose track

1791
01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:02,920
of time.
And she'd be like, don't your

1792
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:05,360
parents need to see you?
You've been here for like a

1793
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:07,600
week, you know, what's going on?
Do you need to go home?

1794
01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:15,240
And I'd be like, no.
And one week I don't remember

1795
01:50:15,680 --> 01:50:23,280
all of this is very the
timelines for me are very hard

1796
01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:26,120
for me to remember because
there's a lot of there's a lots

1797
01:50:26,440 --> 01:50:31,240
of of missing pieces that I
can't remember that as I get

1798
01:50:31,240 --> 01:50:34,320
older, they fall into place or
memories will come back or, you

1799
01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:37,200
know, like something trauma will
something traumatic will happen

1800
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,160
and I'll kind of lose little
bits.

1801
01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:42,160
I'll remember the very traumatic
part, but the surrounding things

1802
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:46,600
I don't quite remember.
So like some of this is, I know

1803
01:50:46,600 --> 01:50:50,640
it happened and what order it
happened I'm not 100% sure.

1804
01:50:51,440 --> 01:50:56,480
So while I was down there
babysitting and coming back and

1805
01:50:56,480 --> 01:51:02,200
forth, my biological mother
decided to come down there to

1806
01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:06,640
the house where I was
babysitting and give me a piece

1807
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:09,600
of mail.
That's like the one thing that I

1808
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:13,960
remember she had a piece of.
And the lady who was babysitting

1809
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:17,320
Deb, who I call mom now, she
adopted me.

1810
01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:22,240
She asked my biological mother,
do you want your daughter?

1811
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:26,160
She's here all the time.
And my biological mother

1812
01:51:26,160 --> 01:51:29,200
straight up told her no.
She has a bad influence on the

1813
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:31,440
other children, and she is not
allowed in our house.

1814
01:51:32,680 --> 01:51:35,400
My mom's jaw just dropped.
Like, just.

1815
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:38,800
She never heard anything like
that before in her life.

1816
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:39,800
No one has.
Yeah.

1817
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:44,320
And still to this day, or still
at that, like up to that point,

1818
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:47,960
my mom did not know I was a Rama
kid.

1819
01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:52,640
I had not told her anything.
I was very tight lipped because

1820
01:51:52,640 --> 01:51:56,720
I knew if anything got out back
to the cult that my siblings

1821
01:51:56,720 --> 01:51:59,840
would suffer the consequences of
me opening my mouth.

1822
01:51:59,840 --> 01:52:04,720
So I zip my lips.
I did not say anything.

1823
01:52:04,800 --> 01:52:07,360
I they were the most importance
to me.

1824
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:13,320
I would not do anything to make
their lives harder so they

1825
01:52:13,320 --> 01:52:16,960
didn't know anything.
And around that I do know that

1826
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:22,560
she came down on 2 separate
occasions for sure.

1827
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:29,800
And both of those occasions she
adamantly told my mom that I was

1828
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:32,880
not allowed at the house and
that she did not want me back at

1829
01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:36,480
the house due to my bad
influence on the other children

1830
01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:42,680
at that time.
Or right like at the end of that

1831
01:52:42,680 --> 01:52:47,240
summer or whatever, my mom
started dating somebody and a

1832
01:52:47,240 --> 01:52:50,520
wonderful, wonderful man,
wonderful man who I now call

1833
01:52:50,520 --> 01:52:56,400
dad.
And he pretty much walked into

1834
01:52:56,400 --> 01:53:03,400
this woman with four kids and
this weirdo Amish girl that just

1835
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:06,680
showed up at her house saying
I'm babysitting and she's like,

1836
01:53:06,680 --> 01:53:07,880
I don't know what to do with
her.

1837
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:12,040
I she just showed up and now
she's here, she's part of the

1838
01:53:12,040 --> 01:53:14,240
family.
Like, I don't know what to tell

1839
01:53:14,240 --> 01:53:16,440
you.
Here you go.

1840
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:21,680
And so my dad, who was the jail
administrator of Shawno at that

1841
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:24,920
time, was like, well, that's not
OK.

1842
01:53:25,240 --> 01:53:29,040
You can't just have a kid show
up at your house and you raise

1843
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:30,800
them or whatever.
That's not OK.

1844
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:36,880
And so him and my mom, now, I
forgot this portion for a little

1845
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:39,000
while until my dad reminded me
again.

1846
01:53:39,400 --> 01:53:41,320
And I was like, Oh yeah, that's
right.

1847
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:45,640
So this is kind of retelling
from his version after

1848
01:53:45,640 --> 01:53:48,680
remembering everything and the
emotions that came with it,

1849
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:51,320
because that's what I remember
the most, is the emotions that

1850
01:53:51,320 --> 01:53:53,800
came with it.
Not so much what exactly

1851
01:53:53,800 --> 01:54:00,280
happened, but him and my mom
drove me and my dad's green

1852
01:54:00,280 --> 01:54:06,240
station wagon, drove into the my
family house or whatever.

1853
01:54:06,440 --> 01:54:09,240
And my dad got out and I
remember him turning to me and

1854
01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:13,200
saying well, come on.
And him getting out and walking

1855
01:54:13,200 --> 01:54:17,880
up.
Now, my dad's a big guy and I

1856
01:54:17,880 --> 01:54:21,880
remember his hands being in his
pocket as he was walking up to

1857
01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:24,960
the door and I got out of the
vehicle.

1858
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:28,520
I remember walking up and not
quite getting up to the door,

1859
01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:32,040
the door opening and my
biological mother standing

1860
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:34,360
there.
Now, I wasn't close enough to

1861
01:54:34,360 --> 01:54:39,640
hear exactly what was said or
anything like that, other than I

1862
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:43,120
know it wasn't good.
I know my biological father

1863
01:54:43,120 --> 01:54:48,920
showed his face and then
disappeared very fast and then

1864
01:54:48,920 --> 01:54:54,360
my dad turned around and came
stalking back to me and told me

1865
01:54:54,360 --> 01:54:58,920
to get the fuck back in the car
in a very get the fuck in the

1866
01:54:58,920 --> 01:55:03,560
car kind of thing.
And me being scared and excited

1867
01:55:03,560 --> 01:55:08,520
at the same time because I
wasn't going back home and I

1868
01:55:08,520 --> 01:55:11,040
wasn't sure what was going to
happen after that.

1869
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:16,520
But I had ultimate faith in that
man in my dad.

1870
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:18,520
Like I just knew he was a
protector.

1871
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:23,800
Like I just like there were the
very first time he ever saw me

1872
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:28,880
in a bikini was the very first
male that ever looked at me

1873
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:33,000
without anything other than go
get your fucking clothes back

1874
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:37,200
on.
And to never have that and to

1875
01:55:37,200 --> 01:55:42,280
then witness it, I just stood
there and grinned at him like I

1876
01:55:42,280 --> 01:55:45,760
was stupid, like I just fell in
love with him at that very

1877
01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:51,480
moment because there was no, no
eye glancing down, no nothing.

1878
01:55:51,480 --> 01:55:56,880
And I was not, let's just say I
was a good looking teenager and

1879
01:55:57,200 --> 01:56:01,720
you know, anyway, so he was the
very first male that was like

1880
01:56:01,720 --> 01:56:05,560
protection 110%.
There was no anything else.

1881
01:56:05,560 --> 01:56:12,520
It was just protection.
And we get back to the house and

1882
01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:18,040
I just remember walking into the
house and kind of just sinking

1883
01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:22,080
to the ground with the
realization of really in

1884
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:27,200
reality, I am now by myself.
There is no nothing or anybody

1885
01:56:27,200 --> 01:56:29,800
anything.
And he just said the words, we

1886
01:56:29,800 --> 01:56:33,960
got you, I got you.
And he sat on the floor next to

1887
01:56:33,960 --> 01:56:39,600
me and just sat there.
And I don't exactly remember if

1888
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:43,080
I cried myself.
I knew, I know I was very upset.

1889
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:45,960
I don't remember exactly what
was said.

1890
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:49,840
I just remember him sitting down
next to me until I was ready to

1891
01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:51,880
get up.
And then we got up together.

1892
01:56:52,240 --> 01:56:57,960
And from that moment on, I've
been part of the Brady Bunch.

1893
01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:04,720
They got married, I want to say
that following August, they got

1894
01:57:04,720 --> 01:57:07,760
married.
She had four kids, he had three

1895
01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:13,320
kids and then me and we all
moved in together into town

1896
01:57:13,320 --> 01:57:17,800
right behind Dairy Queen.
And I went to my junior and

1897
01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:20,640
senior year.
Well did four years and two

1898
01:57:20,640 --> 01:57:25,800
years with the help of oh before
I'm going to miss this whole

1899
01:57:25,800 --> 01:57:29,200
part.
Okay, so we went back home.

1900
01:57:29,600 --> 01:57:33,080
Dad then sat down and had the
conversation with me about what

1901
01:57:33,080 --> 01:57:35,480
my options were.
Like adoption or?

1902
01:57:35,640 --> 01:57:38,440
All that, yeah.
So I wasn't 16 yet and I still

1903
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:41,680
had a full year before I would
turn 16.

1904
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:47,280
So I couldn't legally emancipate
myself.

1905
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:52,520
And so I would either have to go
into foster care or have someone

1906
01:57:52,520 --> 01:57:55,040
like, you know, take
guardianship of me.

1907
01:57:55,400 --> 01:58:00,000
And dad explained to me that he
doesn't really have a say in it.

1908
01:58:00,240 --> 01:58:03,520
It would be up to like the court
system and all of that kind of

1909
01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:06,560
stuff.
And I, and then he also said

1910
01:58:06,560 --> 01:58:10,640
told me that like my parents
would get in trouble most likely

1911
01:58:10,640 --> 01:58:13,080
and all of this kind of stuff.
So pretty much laid out

1912
01:58:13,240 --> 01:58:17,360
everything, all the possible
avenues that could go, and then

1913
01:58:17,360 --> 01:58:21,840
just pretty much asked me what
do you want to do Well.

1914
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:23,480
The first time in your life
you've.

1915
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:25,320
Been.
Empowered with the decision.

1916
01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:28,960
Yes, yes.
And I didn't want anybody to get

1917
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:32,920
in trouble because at that time
I was still like screwed up in

1918
01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:34,400
the head.
And I didn't, I loved my

1919
01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:36,160
parents.
I didn't want anything to happen

1920
01:58:36,160 --> 01:58:37,320
to them.
I didn't want anything to happen

1921
01:58:37,320 --> 01:58:40,080
to my siblings.
So I asked them to give me a

1922
01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:42,160
couple days to like think about
it or whatever.

1923
01:58:42,160 --> 01:58:47,120
And I'd let them know.
And I walked to my biological

1924
01:58:47,120 --> 01:58:51,480
parents house, knocked on the
door and I straight up told my

1925
01:58:51,480 --> 01:58:56,000
biological mother that if she
did not put me into school, that

1926
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:59,240
I was going to go to the Police
Department, I was going to press

1927
01:58:59,240 --> 01:59:02,240
charges.
And that this is what was going

1928
01:59:02,240 --> 01:59:04,720
to happen.
And that I had no other choice.

1929
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:09,920
That these were the things and
that she had a week for me to

1930
01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:14,680
like get this done.
Otherwise the consequences would

1931
01:59:14,680 --> 01:59:17,280
be what they were.
And yes, I spoke to her pretty

1932
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:22,480
much like that very strict, very
mean, very.

1933
01:59:23,720 --> 01:59:29,680
And within a week I got a letter
at the house that I was living

1934
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:37,280
at addressed to me and Deb
Burroughs, which is my mom or it

1935
01:59:37,280 --> 01:59:42,600
wasn't Burroughs at that time.
It was Price, but and it I was

1936
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:46,240
enrolled in school and the
school pretty much knew that I

1937
01:59:46,240 --> 01:59:49,840
was living with mom and dad and
that I was a Rama kid.

1938
01:59:50,160 --> 01:59:55,840
And so don't call her biological
parents, call these parents if

1939
01:59:55,840 --> 02:00:00,480
anything were to happen.
And so that's kind of how that

1940
02:00:00,480 --> 02:00:03,040
happened.
I didn't go and press charges.

1941
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:04,880
I didn't say anything.
I kept quiet.

1942
02:00:05,240 --> 02:00:09,600
I just lived with mom and dad
and went to school.

1943
02:00:10,200 --> 02:00:15,800
And lived a normal teenage life,
went to prom, had birthday

1944
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:20,920
parties, all the things that I
didn't, you know, I mean the

1945
02:00:20,920 --> 02:00:23,800
greatest thing in the entire
world was my first birthday out.

1946
02:00:24,080 --> 02:00:28,360
Like the 1st birthday cake I
had, my mom has this tradition

1947
02:00:28,360 --> 02:00:31,000
that she would, we didn't do
fast food except for your

1948
02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:34,920
birthday before like the morning
of your birthday, she would wake

1949
02:00:34,920 --> 02:00:37,560
you up and you would go get
McDonald's or whatever fast food

1950
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:40,000
you wanted.
And so my first birthday, going

1951
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:43,280
out and getting fast food or,
you know, like all of those

1952
02:00:43,280 --> 02:00:46,560
things, I just ate it up like
you wouldn't believe you

1953
02:00:46,600 --> 02:00:48,400
actually.
Got the memories you deserved?

1954
02:00:48,400 --> 02:00:51,760
Yes, and I got true siblings and
true parents.

1955
02:00:51,760 --> 02:00:55,040
I got to witness what true
siblings and true parents are

1956
02:00:56,480 --> 02:01:00,720
and yes it it to this day they
are my mom and dad they will

1957
02:01:00,720 --> 02:01:09,680
always get.
They gave me things that nobody

1958
02:01:09,680 --> 02:01:14,440
can understand just until you've
been in that situation where you

1959
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:19,760
are utterly alone by yourself
and to have these two people for

1960
02:01:19,760 --> 02:01:23,200
no reason whatsoever, and they
didn't have to just because it

1961
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:26,920
was the right thing to do, just
literally stand up and take it.

1962
02:01:27,840 --> 02:01:30,720
Now, at the same time, I say
that I also the neighbor lady

1963
02:01:30,720 --> 02:01:34,240
across the street would have
offered me a place to live, but

1964
02:01:34,240 --> 02:01:38,160
I did not feel protected with
her husband like I did with dad.

1965
02:01:38,480 --> 02:01:41,440
And so therefore I was very
leery about moving in.

1966
02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:46,400
So I did have another person who
stepped up and did I call her?

1967
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:49,760
She's like my second mom.
She's my faith person.

1968
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:56,040
Anytime that I'm having a crisis
in faith or doubting myself or

1969
02:01:58,640 --> 02:02:02,160
having inner conflict, she is my
person I go to because she is

1970
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:05,800
just steadfast and strong in
that kind of way.

1971
02:02:06,480 --> 02:02:09,720
But I did not get the protective
instincts that I got from mom

1972
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:14,520
and dad from them.
So therefore I was very leery

1973
02:02:14,520 --> 02:02:17,240
about moving in with them right
across the street from my

1974
02:02:17,240 --> 02:02:20,200
biological parents.
So I just want to say that like

1975
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:22,960
they weren't the only two people
to stand up, but they were they

1976
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:28,800
were the, you know, those three
adults, Mama Frank, mom and dad,

1977
02:02:28,800 --> 02:02:33,880
those three adults and my
grandma on the outer, like later

1978
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:35,640
on were the I was.
Wondering when?

1979
02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:42,000
She was people were the people
that really cemented everything

1980
02:02:42,000 --> 02:02:45,600
that I hold dear to this day.
Like just like they gave me the

1981
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:50,240
foundation, they pretty much
helped me break everything down

1982
02:02:50,240 --> 02:02:53,480
and rebuild what I needed to
rebuild to be healthy.

1983
02:02:54,360 --> 02:02:57,400
Life altering.
And yes, and my dad, to this

1984
02:02:57,400 --> 02:02:59,160
day, I can call him for
anything.

1985
02:02:59,160 --> 02:03:01,040
He'll drop everything and come
running.

1986
02:03:01,440 --> 02:03:05,520
I mean, like just and to never
have that and all of a sudden to

1987
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:09,320
have it and I used to tell my
sisters all the time, shut up

1988
02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:11,720
and stop being mean to dad.
You don't understand.

1989
02:03:11,720 --> 02:03:14,840
You just don't get it.
Stop crying about grandpa dying.

1990
02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:16,760
You at least you had a grandpa
who loved you.

1991
02:03:16,760 --> 02:03:19,240
And you know, like, I would be
like, stop crying about it.

1992
02:03:19,240 --> 02:03:21,960
Be happy that you had a grandpa.
Go say goodbye.

1993
02:03:21,960 --> 02:03:24,720
I don't understand why you're
sitting here sobbing like you

1994
02:03:24,720 --> 02:03:26,920
should be proud that you had,
you know, like I would look at

1995
02:03:26,920 --> 02:03:29,960
the world and just the totally
opposite, like way.

1996
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:33,440
You had seen the world up to
that point in a way that nobody

1997
02:03:33,480 --> 02:03:35,520
sees.
Me yes yeah and they would look

1998
02:03:35,520 --> 02:03:40,160
at me like you're so weird shut
off like you're just weird like

1999
02:03:40,360 --> 02:03:43,520
what are you talking about he's
not going to be here anymore

2000
02:03:43,520 --> 02:03:47,440
like we can be sad and you know
like so just like those kind of

2001
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:49,840
relationships that and.
In reality, you're both right.

2002
02:03:49,960 --> 02:03:53,360
Yes, yes, very much so.
And it just gave a totally

2003
02:03:53,360 --> 02:03:55,880
different perspective to both of
us, you know?

2004
02:03:57,560 --> 02:04:01,920
So yeah, I got to live my high
school years.

2005
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:09,160
It was wonderful.
And then when I got to be now

2006
02:04:09,160 --> 02:04:13,640
periodically throat, I would try
to sneak visits into my

2007
02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:16,200
biological siblings.
So, like, I would swing by and

2008
02:04:16,200 --> 02:04:19,240
stop across the road.
Hi, They would come to the

2009
02:04:19,240 --> 02:04:22,080
window and like I could peek and
see them peeking out the window

2010
02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:25,960
and we'd wave And I had an
e-mail set up that sometimes my

2011
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:28,360
sisters would be able to go to
the library and sneak on the

2012
02:04:28,360 --> 02:04:31,760
computer and e-mail me.
And so like we had little ways

2013
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:34,040
that we would like be able to
communicate.

2014
02:04:34,640 --> 02:04:41,040
Well, my one sister, the second
oldest girl.

2015
02:04:41,600 --> 02:04:45,200
So my older sister, she got into
some.

2016
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:49,760
She ran away from the cult and
came down to my house to hide

2017
02:04:49,800 --> 02:04:52,000
and literally I hid her
underneath my bed.

2018
02:04:52,400 --> 02:04:53,560
My at.
Your mom and dad's house.

2019
02:04:53,840 --> 02:04:58,600
At my mom and dad's house, yes,
I hid her underneath my bed and

2020
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:02,120
my biological father came down
and even asked if she was down

2021
02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:04,760
there and I lied to him and said
no, she wasn't down there.

2022
02:05:05,080 --> 02:05:11,480
And I got her onto the Greyhound
bus and take off to Minnesota

2023
02:05:11,480 --> 02:05:16,760
where she could get her stuff.
That was the last time I had

2024
02:05:16,760 --> 02:05:20,000
really seen her.
I don't know exactly what her

2025
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:22,120
story is.
I do know that they found her at

2026
02:05:22,120 --> 02:05:25,960
the bus station in Minnesota and
they tried to get her to go back

2027
02:05:25,960 --> 02:05:29,160
and she wouldn't.
Your biological parents found

2028
02:05:29,160 --> 02:05:30,520
her.
Who found her?

2029
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:33,520
Cult members.
Cult members yes, and they were

2030
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:36,760
literally going to force her
back into the vehicle and pretty

2031
02:05:36,760 --> 02:05:41,840
much kidnap her back to the cult
and she threatened to scream

2032
02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:44,520
bloody murder so they had to
leave her but they took her,

2033
02:05:44,720 --> 02:05:47,560
took all of her stuff and pretty
much left her there like

2034
02:05:47,560 --> 02:05:49,280
stranded with.
Nothing they tried doing with

2035
02:05:49,400 --> 02:05:51,400
you.
Everybody that tries to get out,

2036
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:57,080
they try to do yes.
Anyway, that was my junior year.

2037
02:05:57,080 --> 02:06:00,000
And then my senior year I kind
of got in touch with her again

2038
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:03,880
and found out that she was like
kind of on the outs, but not on

2039
02:06:03,880 --> 02:06:06,040
the outs.
She had gotten married, had a

2040
02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:10,440
baby during that time, and she
was in a very bad place.

2041
02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:14,120
And at that same time, I didn't
know what to do.

2042
02:06:14,120 --> 02:06:17,760
I was graduating high school and
I saw a recruiter and I thought,

2043
02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:21,040
oh, $10,000 signing bonus.
Perfect.

2044
02:06:21,040 --> 02:06:24,400
Amazing.
I'm rich, let's join.

2045
02:06:24,600 --> 02:06:28,200
And my sister needed an out.
So I was like, hey, join the

2046
02:06:28,200 --> 02:06:32,600
military with me.
So she was in Minnesota.

2047
02:06:32,600 --> 02:06:36,080
So I called my recruiter and I
said I'm not going unless my

2048
02:06:36,080 --> 02:06:39,560
sister can come with me.
He goes I'll get to work on

2049
02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:41,360
that.
He called a recruiter that he

2050
02:06:41,360 --> 02:06:44,200
knew in Minnesota.
Those two recruiters got

2051
02:06:44,200 --> 02:06:46,680
together.
So that way me and my sister go

2052
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:50,520
to go to basic together.
So we shipped out the same time

2053
02:06:51,080 --> 02:06:55,720
to basic.
We did basic together.

2054
02:06:56,040 --> 02:06:58,080
It was wonderful.
It was beautiful.

2055
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:01,720
My sister was going through so
much stuff at the time.

2056
02:07:01,720 --> 02:07:04,680
She was getting a divorce at the
same time her husband was trying

2057
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:07,640
to ship her baby son off to
India.

2058
02:07:08,720 --> 02:07:11,360
Yes, while she was in basic
training, he was trying to get

2059
02:07:11,400 --> 02:07:13,280
passports.
And that was right around the

2060
02:07:13,280 --> 02:07:16,600
time they changed it from one
person, one parent signing the

2061
02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:19,040
passport to two parents signing
the passport.

2062
02:07:19,280 --> 02:07:22,760
So it saved her.
He had to like stop those

2063
02:07:22,760 --> 02:07:26,320
proceedings, otherwise she was
in the risk of losing her son

2064
02:07:26,440 --> 02:07:30,600
going over to India because they
were in a custody battle over

2065
02:07:30,600 --> 02:07:34,120
who is going to get it.
So he was going to ship the sun

2066
02:07:34,120 --> 02:07:35,800
to India.
So is he a Rama member?

2067
02:07:35,920 --> 02:07:37,560
Yes, he's in.
The Rama told them to get

2068
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:39,000
married, My sister to get
married.

2069
02:07:39,120 --> 02:07:41,480
She was in like.
I thought she got married and

2070
02:07:41,480 --> 02:07:42,600
had a kid with someone not in
the.

2071
02:07:42,600 --> 02:07:44,480
Call No, they she was still in
the call.

2072
02:07:44,640 --> 02:07:46,720
Yeah, got it.
And she was trying to get out

2073
02:07:46,720 --> 02:07:49,040
but couldn't get out.
You know, she was looking for an

2074
02:07:49,040 --> 02:07:50,800
Ave.
She Yes, yes.

2075
02:07:50,960 --> 02:07:52,880
OK.
And believe it or not, she

2076
02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:54,760
stayed a fencer for a very long
time.

2077
02:07:56,040 --> 02:07:59,400
Anyway, we went to basic
training together, went to AIT.

2078
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:02,120
My mom and dad came and picked
us up.

2079
02:08:04,160 --> 02:08:11,480
We came back home.
I met Brant and started dating

2080
02:08:11,480 --> 02:08:13,600
him, moved to Iron Mountain.
When you came back from basic

2081
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:14,120
training?
You met?

2082
02:08:14,120 --> 02:08:18,000
Yes, I met Brant.
I was dating somebody.

2083
02:08:18,080 --> 02:08:20,400
Mike.
Some crazy Mike guy.

2084
02:08:21,360 --> 02:08:23,760
He was very.
Anyway, we want.

2085
02:08:23,840 --> 02:08:26,440
Yeah, crazy.
Not good.

2086
02:08:26,480 --> 02:08:28,680
My mom and dad were like, thank
God.

2087
02:08:28,680 --> 02:08:29,880
Thank goodness.
Anyway, Yeah.

2088
02:08:29,880 --> 02:08:34,360
So I met Brant and literally I
met him.

2089
02:08:36,040 --> 02:08:40,880
Like I, I want to say the moment
I, our eyes met, there was a

2090
02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:43,440
connection that I cannot explain
to anybody.

2091
02:08:43,720 --> 02:08:47,360
And when anybody says there's no
such thing as a soulmate, I say

2092
02:08:47,360 --> 02:08:49,800
you just have never met your
soulmate.

2093
02:08:51,120 --> 02:08:53,280
There was this connection that I
can't explain.

2094
02:08:53,280 --> 02:08:56,560
I just felt absolutely in love
with him and felt the most

2095
02:08:56,560 --> 02:09:00,360
protected I have ever felt in my
entire life other than being

2096
02:09:00,360 --> 02:09:05,280
with my dad.
He has protective instincts to

2097
02:09:05,280 --> 02:09:09,320
the 10th degree and a lot of
people think it's more

2098
02:09:09,320 --> 02:09:12,920
controlling but it's not it's
just are you OK?

2099
02:09:13,640 --> 02:09:19,680
Anyway so I started dating him
and my sister moved back to

2100
02:09:19,680 --> 02:09:24,880
Minnesota, finished the divorce,
got custody of her son, was

2101
02:09:24,880 --> 02:09:31,400
living her life and then like 2
years into it I got a phone call

2102
02:09:31,960 --> 02:09:35,560
or no it was maybe a year in
into living with Brant.

2103
02:09:35,800 --> 02:09:41,160
I got an e-mail from my sister
wanting to get out and she was

2104
02:09:41,160 --> 02:09:43,840
going to be turning 18 soon so
OK.

2105
02:09:43,880 --> 02:09:45,320
A different sister, A younger
sister.

2106
02:09:45,320 --> 02:09:48,320
A younger sister, yes, the one
under me.

2107
02:09:48,320 --> 02:09:53,880
The sister under me.
And so her and I were emailing

2108
02:09:53,880 --> 02:09:57,160
back and forth very sparingly,
periodically whenever she could

2109
02:09:57,160 --> 02:10:01,920
get to the library and sneak in.
And we came up with the solution

2110
02:10:01,920 --> 02:10:05,680
that I was going to drive up to
the family house, turn off the

2111
02:10:05,680 --> 02:10:08,560
Dome light headlights, and she
was going to jump out of the

2112
02:10:08,560 --> 02:10:13,760
window onto the roof, onto the
ground, run to my vehicle, slide

2113
02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:16,640
in, and I'll take off.
And voila, we did it.

2114
02:10:18,400 --> 02:10:23,920
And I rescued her or stole her.
She was 17, hadn't quite turned

2115
02:10:23,920 --> 02:10:29,480
18 yet and took her back home
with me and she lived with me

2116
02:10:29,480 --> 02:10:32,720
for a little while until she met
her first husband on the

2117
02:10:32,720 --> 02:10:35,560
Greyhound bus, which I told her
she was stupid and crazy, don't

2118
02:10:35,560 --> 02:10:40,040
do it.
But so she moved in with her

2119
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:44,320
husband who she met on the
Greyhound and about I would say

2120
02:10:44,320 --> 02:10:48,320
probably a year after that.
I got a phone call from the

2121
02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:54,360
neighbor lady Mama Frank, who
had my other little sister over

2122
02:10:54,360 --> 02:11:00,840
at her house in tears and just
sobbing mess saying that's one

2123
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:05,840
of the cult members who was
staying at the house had

2124
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:11,200
sexually molested her or raped
her and it was pretty bad.

2125
02:11:11,720 --> 02:11:18,440
And he was in a lot older
gentleman while I I jumped into

2126
02:11:18,440 --> 02:11:22,200
gear and I pretty much said
don't let her leave the house.

2127
02:11:22,200 --> 02:11:25,120
I'm on my way.
I'm an hour and 45 minutes, 2

2128
02:11:25,120 --> 02:11:26,840
hours away.
I'll be there.

2129
02:11:27,000 --> 02:11:29,720
So I went there.
I picked her up.

2130
02:11:30,760 --> 02:11:35,520
I took her back to my mom and
dad's house and I proceeded to

2131
02:11:35,520 --> 02:11:38,920
call the cops and do all the
things that needed to be done

2132
02:11:38,920 --> 02:11:46,480
for that kind of thing and my
sister pressed charges that my

2133
02:11:46,480 --> 02:11:50,400
biological mother.
I don't remember seeing my

2134
02:11:50,400 --> 02:11:53,440
biological father at all.
He was there.

2135
02:11:53,440 --> 02:11:56,320
I do know from other people
saying, but I physically don't

2136
02:11:56,320 --> 02:11:59,480
remember him being part of the
conversation or anything like

2137
02:11:59,480 --> 02:12:00,920
that.
I don't he might have been in

2138
02:12:00,920 --> 02:12:05,840
the background, but my
biological mother drove over to

2139
02:12:05,880 --> 02:12:11,760
the compound where the one lady
had a notary thing and they

2140
02:12:11,760 --> 02:12:20,200
pretty much signed their rights
away of her to me within 24

2141
02:12:20,200 --> 02:12:24,960
hours of me reporting that.
And so I got full custody of my

2142
02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:29,480
sister and it's.
Such a tumultuous time in her

2143
02:12:29,480 --> 02:12:34,680
life.
Yes, she was 16 and I was 23,

2144
02:12:35,720 --> 02:12:38,160
20, yes, 23.
Fresh back from Basic.

2145
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:41,760
Training like just, you know,
trying to figure out the world

2146
02:12:41,760 --> 02:12:44,120
and the world is still new to
me, you know what I mean?

2147
02:12:44,120 --> 02:12:48,920
Like, and at the same time, I
had just been able to talk about

2148
02:12:48,920 --> 02:12:53,240
my sexual trauma, all of that
kind of the sexual abuse and all

2149
02:12:53,240 --> 02:12:56,280
of that kind of stuff.
So like my brain was just, I

2150
02:12:56,280 --> 02:13:00,120
call it, it's like an onion.
Like once the one layer comes

2151
02:13:00,120 --> 02:13:02,720
out and you start talking about
it and you open it up, the next

2152
02:13:02,720 --> 02:13:06,560
layer comes out and it just
depends on how much you're

2153
02:13:06,560 --> 02:13:09,440
willing to dwell into it, how
fast and open it comes.

2154
02:13:09,720 --> 02:13:13,200
But once those layers start
peeling, you have no control.

2155
02:13:13,440 --> 02:13:16,480
Like they just start opening up
and you start experiencing

2156
02:13:16,480 --> 02:13:19,720
emotions that you just, you
can't explain and you don't know

2157
02:13:19,720 --> 02:13:22,000
where they come from.
And it's really, I say it's your

2158
02:13:22,000 --> 02:13:24,600
inner child coming out and being
demanded to.

2159
02:13:26,320 --> 02:13:29,560
I had to hideaway for so long to
protect you.

2160
02:13:30,000 --> 02:13:33,160
Now it's time for you to see,
feel and hear me.

2161
02:13:33,600 --> 02:13:39,560
And if you don't, you are going
to be panic ridden for the rest

2162
02:13:39,560 --> 02:13:42,800
of your adult life.
So to get rid of all the anxiety

2163
02:13:42,800 --> 02:13:46,920
and all the panic and all of
that fear, you literally have to

2164
02:13:46,920 --> 02:13:49,400
peel apart those layers and just
start.

2165
02:13:49,960 --> 02:13:57,720
And her being sexually abused
and then me having my past and

2166
02:13:57,720 --> 02:14:01,160
not being able to talk to
anybody in my biological family

2167
02:14:01,160 --> 02:14:05,040
about it just really like
unwired my brain.

2168
02:14:05,040 --> 02:14:07,360
It helped each other, yeah.
Yes.

2169
02:14:07,400 --> 02:14:12,880
And then at that same time,
during all that time, Brandt had

2170
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:15,600
gotten cancer.
And so he was going through

2171
02:14:15,600 --> 02:14:22,280
chemo and radiation and Soho.
He had kind of gotten off the

2172
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:27,440
deep end as far as depression
and he had just kind of checked

2173
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:32,000
out like, so to speak, a 32 year
old guy going through chemo

2174
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:35,480
radiation just kind of got
sucked into the computer games

2175
02:14:35,480 --> 02:14:39,400
and checked out.
And I at the same time had my

2176
02:14:39,400 --> 02:14:43,720
sister who was dealing with all
of her stuff and I just couldn't

2177
02:14:43,720 --> 02:14:46,640
take it anymore.
And I just said I'm done, I

2178
02:14:46,640 --> 02:14:49,760
can't do this anymore.
And I pretty much broke up with

2179
02:14:49,760 --> 02:14:54,520
him and left and moved down to
Lansing.

2180
02:14:54,920 --> 02:14:59,760
And at the same time, I had
found out that I was pregnant.

2181
02:15:00,200 --> 02:15:06,200
And I could not imagine bringing
a child into this world, into

2182
02:15:06,200 --> 02:15:13,080
this evil, into this like crazy,
crazy, crazy like world and not

2183
02:15:13,080 --> 02:15:17,280
be married and not have a good
foundation for him or her.

2184
02:15:17,600 --> 02:15:20,880
And both possible fathers,
because I wasn't sure who the

2185
02:15:20,880 --> 02:15:23,160
dad was.
Both possible fathers.

2186
02:15:24,240 --> 02:15:29,000
It wanted nothing to do with it
whatsoever and pretty much said,

2187
02:15:29,120 --> 02:15:31,600
no, go get an abortion.
Go do it.

2188
02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:39,240
Walked out of there like 3
different times like not sure if

2189
02:15:39,240 --> 02:15:42,200
I should do it.
And finally like the third time

2190
02:15:42,200 --> 02:15:44,880
it was like OK all right.
I could not bring a baby into

2191
02:15:44,880 --> 02:15:48,680
this world when only one person
really truly wants it.

2192
02:15:48,720 --> 02:15:57,440
And if I go to hell for killing
a soul, at least I'm sending it

2193
02:15:57,440 --> 02:16:02,600
back to heaven fully attached,
and some other person will get

2194
02:16:02,600 --> 02:16:08,720
the joy of having that soul.
And if I have to go to hell for

2195
02:16:08,720 --> 02:16:15,920
ending that, I'll gladly go to
hell not to damage another soul,

2196
02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:19,080
because that was not something
that I can do.

2197
02:16:19,080 --> 02:16:24,720
I could not bring a child into
this world and not have a mother

2198
02:16:24,760 --> 02:16:30,440
and a father.
And so yes, I went and had an

2199
02:16:30,440 --> 02:16:37,959
abortion and that another whole
layer into it still to this day

2200
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:46,280
that's I gave up something I
desperately wanted so bad

2201
02:16:48,559 --> 02:16:51,879
because I was so worried about
doing harm to another human

2202
02:16:51,879 --> 02:16:57,240
being.
Hindsight 2020 now, if I was

2203
02:16:57,680 --> 02:17:01,719
know what I know now, back then
I would never have done it.

2204
02:17:03,240 --> 02:17:07,440
But at that time you had.
Four years experience in normal.

2205
02:17:07,480 --> 02:17:10,920
Society, yes.
And a sister who was.

2206
02:17:12,639 --> 02:17:16,240
And transit, well, not being
able to.

2207
02:17:16,320 --> 02:17:19,240
I loved Brant.
I loved Brant desperately, but I

2208
02:17:19,240 --> 02:17:21,600
just couldn't.
I couldn't do the crazy.

2209
02:17:21,920 --> 02:17:23,840
I couldn't.
I just couldn't handle it

2210
02:17:23,840 --> 02:17:27,040
emotionally and I just got
scared and I ran, pretty much.

2211
02:17:27,040 --> 02:17:34,520
I ran and moved on to Lansing.
While I was down there in

2212
02:17:34,520 --> 02:17:40,959
Lansing, I was in contact with
my sister who I went to basic

2213
02:17:40,959 --> 02:17:45,480
training with, and I thought I
had a pretty good relationship

2214
02:17:45,480 --> 02:17:51,440
with them.
I didn't know that there was

2215
02:17:51,440 --> 02:17:53,559
still in communication with
Rama.

2216
02:17:54,559 --> 02:18:00,080
I had no idea, none whatsoever.
And so I allowed my little

2217
02:18:00,080 --> 02:18:04,959
sister to go visit her one
weekend for the holidays.

2218
02:18:06,360 --> 02:18:14,600
And my sister, older sister got
her to redact her story or her

2219
02:18:15,360 --> 02:18:20,719
case by signing this paper and
sent it into the Police

2220
02:18:20,719 --> 02:18:24,000
Department in Shawnell where we
had filed the charges.

2221
02:18:25,120 --> 02:18:31,400
And the cop called me and I had
to talk him down from charging

2222
02:18:31,400 --> 02:18:38,040
my little sister charges of
lying and false reporting and

2223
02:18:38,040 --> 02:18:42,160
all of that kind of stuff.
And I had to explain like, no,

2224
02:18:42,160 --> 02:18:45,879
it really did happen and she
didn't mean to redact it.

2225
02:18:45,879 --> 02:18:48,559
My other sister conned her into
this.

2226
02:18:48,559 --> 02:18:51,000
This is not, you know, like the
police.

2227
02:18:51,000 --> 02:18:53,959
They just don't know how to
handle people who are in a cult

2228
02:18:53,959 --> 02:18:57,280
or understand the dynamics and
everything that go along with

2229
02:18:57,280 --> 02:18:57,879
it.
You know?

2230
02:18:58,840 --> 02:19:01,959
You know, they had gotten her to
call and talk to Rama, and Rama

2231
02:19:01,959 --> 02:19:04,799
totally sided with her and said,
yes, what happened to you was

2232
02:19:04,799 --> 02:19:07,799
horrible and he totally
manipulated her.

2233
02:19:08,040 --> 02:19:10,799
Just to get the signature.
Just to get the case dropped

2234
02:19:10,799 --> 02:19:13,400
because it would have opened
they, you know, the the Police

2235
02:19:13,400 --> 02:19:16,400
Department had been looking for
a way in for a very long time

2236
02:19:16,680 --> 02:19:19,400
and this was their way in.
So that cop was livid.

2237
02:19:19,400 --> 02:19:22,600
I mean he was seen red when he
called me and talked to me.

2238
02:19:22,959 --> 02:19:30,520
And Needless to say, that
crushed me for the second time

2239
02:19:30,559 --> 02:19:33,639
in my life.
The first time was when my

2240
02:19:33,639 --> 02:19:37,120
biological mother turned her
back on me and just walked out.

2241
02:19:37,120 --> 02:19:40,680
We were like, you know, like
that was the crush 1 The crush

2242
02:19:40,680 --> 02:19:46,120
too was when I had called my
sister to talk to her and ask

2243
02:19:46,120 --> 02:19:48,160
her why.
Because you know, I have to ask

2244
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:53,120
why.
She told me in her words that

2245
02:19:53,120 --> 02:19:57,200
Rama told her was it was not our
judge art.

2246
02:19:57,200 --> 02:19:59,720
It was not our place to judge
anybody.

2247
02:20:00,720 --> 02:20:03,800
God was going to judge them, and
as far.

2248
02:20:03,840 --> 02:20:05,520
As the he's talking about the
dude, who knows?

2249
02:20:05,840 --> 02:20:07,160
We can judge him.
Yes.

2250
02:20:07,600 --> 02:20:09,760
Well, that's what I told to her.
I said, wait a minute.

2251
02:20:09,760 --> 02:20:12,000
So you're telling me that we're
not supposed to do anything

2252
02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:13,520
about this?
He's allowed to go do this to

2253
02:20:13,520 --> 02:20:14,960
somebody else?
Why?

2254
02:20:14,960 --> 02:20:16,720
Why do you think it's OK for
that?

2255
02:20:16,720 --> 02:20:20,320
And she was like, well, you
know, it's not our place to

2256
02:20:20,320 --> 02:20:22,520
judge people.
Only God can judge people.

2257
02:20:22,520 --> 02:20:25,000
And when she said those words
and she kept saying those words

2258
02:20:25,000 --> 02:20:28,280
to me, I lost my shit, man.
I just lost my shit.

2259
02:20:28,600 --> 02:20:35,400
And I went down a dark,
depressing thing.

2260
02:20:35,400 --> 02:20:37,280
I pretty much just gave up on
life.

2261
02:20:37,280 --> 02:20:41,480
I, I mean, I just gave up.
I let my little sister go back,

2262
02:20:41,760 --> 02:20:46,720
not to the cult, but I, she went
back into the family fold to my

2263
02:20:46,720 --> 02:20:49,880
brother who was in Texas.
He wasn't part of the cult, but

2264
02:20:49,880 --> 02:20:51,400
he still talked to like my
buddy.

2265
02:20:51,440 --> 02:20:54,520
They, she wasn't complete.
They weren't completely cut out.

2266
02:20:54,800 --> 02:20:56,640
They still would call and talk
to Rama.

2267
02:20:56,640 --> 02:20:58,680
They would still call and do
that kind of thing.

2268
02:20:58,680 --> 02:21:03,800
So they were fencers, but
further out fencers, I guess, so

2269
02:21:03,800 --> 02:21:07,280
to speak.
And so she went and lived with

2270
02:21:07,280 --> 02:21:10,840
them.
And when that happened and my

2271
02:21:10,840 --> 02:21:14,320
biological father and oldest
sister came and picked her up

2272
02:21:14,360 --> 02:21:16,400
and like a not a word was
spoken.

2273
02:21:16,400 --> 02:21:24,920
Not like just like I just
couldn't believe that he was

2274
02:21:24,920 --> 02:21:28,040
allowing this to happen and
nothing was going to happen to

2275
02:21:28,040 --> 02:21:30,320
this man.
And this was not the first time

2276
02:21:30,320 --> 02:21:32,800
that he had done this.
He had also done this to his own

2277
02:21:32,800 --> 02:21:37,600
daughters and they had allowed
this man to be in their house

2278
02:21:37,600 --> 02:21:41,440
knowing that this man was a
pedophile and that he had

2279
02:21:41,440 --> 02:21:44,880
molested his daughters.
And like, I just couldn't

2280
02:21:44,880 --> 02:21:47,040
believe it.
I just couldn't understand it.

2281
02:21:47,040 --> 02:21:53,280
And I just, and so I just
honestly, I just buried myself

2282
02:21:53,280 --> 02:21:56,800
in work and I tried to forget
everything.

2283
02:21:56,840 --> 02:22:03,360
And I ended up meeting Fred, my
husband, my first husband, and

2284
02:22:03,360 --> 02:22:10,960
he love bombed me, gave me
everything that I thought a

2285
02:22:11,000 --> 02:22:16,240
relationship should be with the
flowers and the dates and all of

2286
02:22:16,240 --> 02:22:20,160
that stuff.
And I didn't see the red flags

2287
02:22:20,760 --> 02:22:24,120
that were there.
And honestly, I was looking for

2288
02:22:24,120 --> 02:22:29,200
someone to come in and save me
and just pick me up because I

2289
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:33,960
was just so inside.
I when my sister said those

2290
02:22:33,960 --> 02:22:37,200
words to me, I was just crushed.
I I felt like I lost a part of

2291
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:41,160
myself.
Yeah.

2292
02:22:41,160 --> 02:22:44,120
I lost what little part of
family that I thought I had

2293
02:22:44,120 --> 02:22:45,960
gotten back, like it was just
gone.

2294
02:22:46,240 --> 02:22:49,040
And the siblings that I thought
I had, the parents that I

2295
02:22:49,040 --> 02:22:51,080
thought I had, it was again, a
cement.

2296
02:22:51,080 --> 02:22:53,440
No, you don't have them.
It's a facade.

2297
02:22:54,720 --> 02:22:59,560
They are not true to you.
You know, their, their

2298
02:22:59,560 --> 02:23:02,800
allegiance and their alliances
to somebody else, not to you.

2299
02:23:03,200 --> 02:23:05,760
And so I just, I couldn't
believe it.

2300
02:23:06,600 --> 02:23:10,640
And anyway, he came in and love
bombed me and said all the right

2301
02:23:10,640 --> 02:23:14,000
things and did all the right
things and asked me to marry

2302
02:23:14,000 --> 02:23:15,560
him.
And I said hell yes.

2303
02:23:15,960 --> 02:23:19,600
And he had custody of his two
children, a boy and girl.

2304
02:23:20,360 --> 02:23:22,200
They were in kindergarten in
first grade.

2305
02:23:22,200 --> 02:23:25,200
And I felt absolutely in love
with them.

2306
02:23:27,480 --> 02:23:31,960
I had just maybe a year, not
quite a year previous to that,

2307
02:23:31,960 --> 02:23:35,560
had the abortion.
And so I was, I mean, this

2308
02:23:35,560 --> 02:23:38,600
little girl was in kindergarten.
She was just the most darling

2309
02:23:38,600 --> 02:23:41,240
thing in the entire world.
And I just like literally, I

2310
02:23:41,240 --> 02:23:45,640
think I fell in love with the
children versus the, you know

2311
02:23:45,640 --> 02:23:47,560
what I mean?
Like I really did.

2312
02:23:47,560 --> 02:23:50,720
I fell in love with the family.
He was a fantastic father.

2313
02:23:50,720 --> 02:23:53,960
He was a wonderful dad.
I fell in love with that, like

2314
02:23:53,960 --> 02:23:58,080
just anything that I thought
that I would want my children to

2315
02:23:58,080 --> 02:24:01,440
have.
He was as far as the father

2316
02:24:01,440 --> 02:24:03,560
figure goes, and that was enough
for me.

2317
02:24:03,560 --> 02:24:04,920
I didn't care about anything
else.

2318
02:24:04,920 --> 02:24:06,440
I didn't know about anything
else.

2319
02:24:06,640 --> 02:24:10,680
I didn't dwell on anything else.
I said yes and we got married.

2320
02:24:12,160 --> 02:24:14,200
Hindsight, 2020, I should not
have.

2321
02:24:15,080 --> 02:24:18,920
I knew in my head the day I
went, we got married on Mackinac

2322
02:24:18,920 --> 02:24:21,880
Island.
And so we were taking the ferry

2323
02:24:21,880 --> 02:24:26,280
across and I was with my mom and
dad and my dad just turned her

2324
02:24:26,280 --> 02:24:28,280
and looked at me.
And he goes, listen baby girl,

2325
02:24:28,280 --> 02:24:30,840
if you don't want to do this, we
can turn around and walk away

2326
02:24:30,840 --> 02:24:32,480
right now, so.
He felt something.

2327
02:24:32,680 --> 02:24:36,240
He felt it and I think he felt
it because I felt it and I just

2328
02:24:36,240 --> 02:24:38,840
knew.
But I was so in love with those

2329
02:24:38,840 --> 02:24:41,080
kids.
I just, I could not hurt them.

2330
02:24:41,080 --> 02:24:44,200
I could not break their hearts.
I, I would protect them in any

2331
02:24:44,200 --> 02:24:47,040
way, shape or form, even if it
was from me walking away.

2332
02:24:48,160 --> 02:24:52,120
And I just, and in my brain, I
was like, no cold shoulder or,

2333
02:24:52,120 --> 02:24:54,840
you know, like, you know, cold
feet or whatever it is that they

2334
02:24:54,840 --> 02:24:57,520
say before you get married.
You know, those things played in

2335
02:24:57,520 --> 02:25:00,320
my mind and I was like, no dad,
no, I love him.

2336
02:25:00,320 --> 02:25:02,240
And he was like, OK, let's go do
this.

2337
02:25:02,720 --> 02:25:10,080
And so we took the ferry across,
got married and yeah, moved to

2338
02:25:10,080 --> 02:25:12,800
Grayling.
Well, he was in the military, I

2339
02:25:12,800 --> 02:25:16,760
was in the military and we both
did drills at Camp Grayling

2340
02:25:16,760 --> 02:25:18,360
there or the two weeks or
whatever.

2341
02:25:18,360 --> 02:25:23,200
And he grew up in Grayling.
So we moved to Grayling and had

2342
02:25:23,200 --> 02:25:26,440
Wyatt, my son got pregnant, had
him.

2343
02:25:27,360 --> 02:25:34,000
He at that time I cut off all
contact with any biological

2344
02:25:34,000 --> 02:25:36,640
family whatsoever.
I didn't talk to aunts and

2345
02:25:36,640 --> 02:25:39,080
uncles, nothing.
I had nothing to do with the

2346
02:25:39,080 --> 02:25:42,440
cult.
I shut that part off the vast.

2347
02:25:42,440 --> 02:25:44,320
Majority of them were still in
at that time.

2348
02:25:44,320 --> 02:25:47,760
There was all of them were all
of I was the only sibling that

2349
02:25:47,760 --> 02:25:51,480
was truly out.
I had a couple of brother and

2350
02:25:51,480 --> 02:25:54,240
sisters that lived on the
outside, but they still talk to

2351
02:25:54,240 --> 02:25:57,520
Rama blah blah blah.
I was the only one that had no

2352
02:25:57,520 --> 02:26:05,000
contact whatsoever and just
enjoyed being a mom.

2353
02:26:05,640 --> 02:26:09,760
Figured out what it was like to
be a coach, coach, cheerleading,

2354
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:13,720
got the kids into sports.
Just discovering what it was to

2355
02:26:13,720 --> 02:26:17,880
be a mom and in the real world
of that kind of thing, 'cause I

2356
02:26:17,880 --> 02:26:21,200
didn't know anything.
I didn't know no nothing,

2357
02:26:21,200 --> 02:26:25,080
nothing.
So for the next 7 years I had

2358
02:26:25,080 --> 02:26:31,560
Wyatt.
I just did normal life, sports,

2359
02:26:31,560 --> 02:26:35,680
all that kind of stuff.
Became a cheerleading mom coach

2360
02:26:35,920 --> 02:26:37,640
just like.
You grew up in the burbs and

2361
02:26:37,640 --> 02:26:39,680
just had.
That yeah, that's what I strive

2362
02:26:39,680 --> 02:26:43,480
for.
But at the same time, I didn't

2363
02:26:43,480 --> 02:26:47,720
realize that my husband was very
controlling until I realized

2364
02:26:47,720 --> 02:26:51,160
that no bills were in my name.
The house was not in my name.

2365
02:26:52,560 --> 02:26:57,040
He pretty much tried to cut me
off from my mom and dad in a

2366
02:26:57,040 --> 02:27:01,240
roundabout way, but realized
very fast that that was

2367
02:27:01,240 --> 02:27:03,080
something that would never
happen.

2368
02:27:03,520 --> 02:27:09,040
And so he pretty much cut out
everybody else and my trips to

2369
02:27:09,400 --> 02:27:12,080
my parents house were under
stress.

2370
02:27:12,080 --> 02:27:15,280
Like he would nitpick me while I
was there and you know, like

2371
02:27:15,280 --> 02:27:18,680
just caused me a lot of stress
while I was gone there.

2372
02:27:18,680 --> 02:27:20,920
So that way I couldn't really
enjoy my time.

2373
02:27:20,920 --> 02:27:23,400
So that way I'd want to just
come back and just get it over

2374
02:27:23,400 --> 02:27:28,120
with to, you know, keep more
control, that kind of stuff.

2375
02:27:28,320 --> 02:27:33,800
So very manipulative as a
husband, very controlling as a

2376
02:27:33,800 --> 02:27:37,360
husband.
And I didn't see any of that

2377
02:27:37,360 --> 02:27:38,120
until.
How could you?

2378
02:27:38,120 --> 02:27:40,080
See it it was your.
It was the vast majority of your

2379
02:27:40,080 --> 02:27:42,920
life until that point of being
manipulated by someone else.

2380
02:27:42,920 --> 02:27:44,440
It's just another one in the
line.

2381
02:27:44,520 --> 02:27:46,160
Yes.
And I didn't notice it until I

2382
02:27:46,160 --> 02:27:50,600
put my foot down on something
and by then it was too late.

2383
02:27:50,920 --> 02:27:52,640
Why?
It was about a year old.

2384
02:27:53,640 --> 02:27:59,440
And I was like, OK, And then
that was my very first.

2385
02:28:00,200 --> 02:28:03,440
The onion peeled, right?
And then I started looking at

2386
02:28:03,440 --> 02:28:07,920
other things that had happened
and I thought, oh shit, like,

2387
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:10,880
what did I get myself into kind
of thing?

2388
02:28:11,720 --> 02:28:16,200
And then he was going through
some medical problems.

2389
02:28:16,200 --> 02:28:19,880
He had gout really bad.
He had some issues with his feet

2390
02:28:19,880 --> 02:28:21,240
from when he was in the
military.

2391
02:28:21,240 --> 02:28:24,960
And the gout set into his feet
and they had given him Vicodin

2392
02:28:24,960 --> 02:28:27,600
for pain.
And at that beginning, at that

2393
02:28:27,600 --> 02:28:31,560
time, prescriptions, drugs or
whatever, they were really

2394
02:28:31,560 --> 02:28:34,200
pushing the Vicodin and stuff at
the doctor's office.

2395
02:28:34,200 --> 02:28:36,760
You were getting it free.
You remember that whole.

2396
02:28:37,440 --> 02:28:41,720
And so he would come home with a
bottle of 180 Vicodin free.

2397
02:28:41,880 --> 02:28:45,080
Like here you go.
And so he started taking the

2398
02:28:45,080 --> 02:28:49,880
Vicodin to control his pain,
which then got him addicted to

2399
02:28:50,120 --> 02:28:55,160
the pain medication.
Well, and this was a man who did

2400
02:28:55,160 --> 02:28:58,600
not drink, did not smoke, did
not do any kind of addictive

2401
02:28:58,600 --> 02:29:02,160
thing whatsoever.
The only crappy thing about him,

2402
02:29:02,160 --> 02:29:04,160
he was just a really shitty
husband.

2403
02:29:04,520 --> 02:29:09,080
Like really shitty husband, you
know, but a pretty decent human

2404
02:29:09,080 --> 02:29:12,480
being and went out of his way,
you know, to help other people.

2405
02:29:12,480 --> 02:29:18,840
Just a really shitty husband and
got into the pills and then all

2406
02:29:18,840 --> 02:29:23,080
of a sudden the doctor's offices
started clamping down on that.

2407
02:29:23,320 --> 02:29:27,720
And it really started, you know,
and so the doctor told him, hey,

2408
02:29:28,000 --> 02:29:30,200
we're not going to be able to do
the Vicodin for very much

2409
02:29:30,200 --> 02:29:31,960
longer.
We're going to have to figure

2410
02:29:31,960 --> 02:29:33,800
out a different solution to the
gout.

2411
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:37,120
And so they tried a bunch of
different diet and it was a two

2412
02:29:37,120 --> 02:29:40,960
year process of different diets
and the different process of

2413
02:29:41,280 --> 02:29:44,520
figuring out what to do, how to
get his weight a little bit more

2414
02:29:44,520 --> 02:29:46,880
controlled.
So that way it could control his

2415
02:29:46,880 --> 02:29:51,320
gout because it's the excitic
level in your blood that causes

2416
02:29:51,320 --> 02:29:53,000
the gout.
So you have to like control it.

2417
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:55,280
No fish, none of that kind of
stuff.

2418
02:29:56,760 --> 02:29:59,080
And anyway, none of it really
worked.

2419
02:29:59,080 --> 02:30:02,720
So they recommended a gastric
bypass surgery.

2420
02:30:04,320 --> 02:30:09,440
And the gastric bypass surgery,
hindsight 2020 was probably the

2421
02:30:09,440 --> 02:30:15,160
worst thing he could have done.
He was a food emotional eater, I

2422
02:30:15,160 --> 02:30:18,120
should say.
Food was his, yes.

2423
02:30:18,480 --> 02:30:22,640
And I could tell what mood he
was in by when he came home and

2424
02:30:22,640 --> 02:30:24,800
what he cooked.
He loved to cook, to cook.

2425
02:30:24,800 --> 02:30:30,000
He loved to cook just so if he
came home and grabbed the steak,

2426
02:30:30,360 --> 02:30:33,360
I knew he was in a pissy mood.
If he started cooking chicken, I

2427
02:30:33,360 --> 02:30:35,680
knew he was in a like humorous
kind of mood.

2428
02:30:35,680 --> 02:30:38,440
Like I knew what mood he was in
by what he would pull out of the

2429
02:30:38,440 --> 02:30:41,640
fridge.
And so the gastric bypass

2430
02:30:41,640 --> 02:30:46,160
surgery was a very big mistake
for him.

2431
02:30:46,640 --> 02:30:49,400
Well, when he came from the
hospital, they pretty much said

2432
02:30:49,400 --> 02:30:54,080
you have your pain pills or
whatever for the gastric bypass,

2433
02:30:54,080 --> 02:30:57,000
but you are no longer getting
the Vicodin.

2434
02:30:57,000 --> 02:31:00,440
And they pretty much cut him off
cold Turkey.

2435
02:31:00,920 --> 02:31:04,360
Well, hindsight 2020, we know
what happens now when that

2436
02:31:04,360 --> 02:31:07,720
happens, you know.
So there he was going through

2437
02:31:07,720 --> 02:31:12,080
this whole crazy thing with the
gastric bypass and not having

2438
02:31:12,080 --> 02:31:15,640
any Vicodin.
Both crutches in his life, one

2439
02:31:15,640 --> 02:31:17,520
what he did probably didn't even
know was a crutch, and then.

2440
02:31:17,520 --> 02:31:19,400
Correct.
Well, neither of us did, you

2441
02:31:19,400 --> 02:31:20,960
know.
So he started seeking.

2442
02:31:20,960 --> 02:31:26,640
He started looking for pills.
In 2012.

2443
02:31:27,320 --> 02:31:30,760
He ended up passing away.
I found him.

2444
02:31:31,320 --> 02:31:34,440
His alarm clock was going off.
No response.

2445
02:31:34,440 --> 02:31:37,440
He was not one to sleep through
the night in any way, shape or

2446
02:31:37,440 --> 02:31:38,880
form.
So I went in.

2447
02:31:39,040 --> 02:31:43,240
I went stomping into our room
because I was trying to get the

2448
02:31:43,240 --> 02:31:47,840
kids up and Wyatt had been up
that night and he had not slept

2449
02:31:47,840 --> 02:31:50,680
good.
And so I was just not in a good

2450
02:31:50,680 --> 02:31:52,360
mood.
And I was like, what the hell,

2451
02:31:52,360 --> 02:31:56,040
dude, get up.
And I went over and I kind of

2452
02:31:56,040 --> 02:32:01,960
smacked him, not like, hey and
nothing.

2453
02:32:03,200 --> 02:32:06,840
And I looked a little bit closer
and I noticed he had like

2454
02:32:06,840 --> 02:32:12,920
aspirated like stuff and me
being in the nursing kind of

2455
02:32:12,920 --> 02:32:17,720
knew a little bit CNA work.
I just knew.

2456
02:32:18,360 --> 02:32:21,000
I just knew.
And I freaked out.

2457
02:32:21,360 --> 02:32:25,320
I ran, called 911 at the same
time I'm screaming to my stepson

2458
02:32:25,320 --> 02:32:32,080
who is 14 at this time.
Yeah, I handed my 4 year old him

2459
02:32:33,040 --> 02:32:36,800
and I just said something
happened to Dad.

2460
02:32:36,800 --> 02:32:38,800
I don't know.
And honestly, I don't remember

2461
02:32:38,800 --> 02:32:42,560
exactly what I said to him other
than, you know, get over here or

2462
02:32:42,560 --> 02:32:45,080
something happened to dad.
And I grabbed the phone and I

2463
02:32:45,080 --> 02:32:48,560
remember running back into the
room where he was at and

2464
02:32:48,560 --> 02:32:55,920
watching my stepson shake his
dad's feet and just shake him.

2465
02:32:55,960 --> 02:33:00,480
Dad, wake up, Dad, wake up.
Dad and me go.

2466
02:33:00,480 --> 02:33:04,320
Freddy, get out.
Get out, go to your room, get

2467
02:33:04,320 --> 02:33:09,160
Wyatt, go to your room.
And then screaming on 911.

2468
02:33:10,280 --> 02:33:17,920
Get here, cops showing up 911,
lady asking me, do you want us

2469
02:33:17,920 --> 02:33:20,640
to call someone?
And then me going, yeah, call

2470
02:33:20,640 --> 02:33:25,040
his mom because they lived like
2 miles, 3 miles away from us.

2471
02:33:26,120 --> 02:33:32,640
And so, yeah, I hung up the
phone.

2472
02:33:32,640 --> 02:33:36,920
I called my neighbor, who was my
best friend at the time, and I

2473
02:33:36,920 --> 02:33:39,360
just screamed to her, Fred's
dead.

2474
02:33:39,800 --> 02:33:43,440
And she came running down.
And honestly, the moment she

2475
02:33:43,440 --> 02:33:46,440
showed up, everything else is
kind of hazy.

2476
02:33:46,720 --> 02:33:50,080
I just have memories of little
snippets of things that

2477
02:33:50,080 --> 02:33:52,440
happened.
I remember my daughter laying on

2478
02:33:52,440 --> 02:33:57,200
the floor crying and me just
falling on top of her pretty

2479
02:33:57,200 --> 02:34:00,280
much hugging her saying it was
going to be OK.

2480
02:34:00,960 --> 02:34:04,680
The cop asking the neighbor lady
for underwear or pants for me

2481
02:34:04,680 --> 02:34:08,000
because I was literally in an
oversized T-shirt and underwear

2482
02:34:08,440 --> 02:34:12,360
and I had my Prego underwear on
and it was really baggy and I'm

2483
02:34:12,360 --> 02:34:15,920
pretty sure he saw stuff he
wasn't supposed to see and he

2484
02:34:15,920 --> 02:34:17,480
was like will you get her some
pants?

2485
02:34:17,480 --> 02:34:21,080
And my friend asking me where
pants were and she couldn't find

2486
02:34:21,080 --> 02:34:23,840
any, so she went into The Dirty
laundry pile and grabbed me

2487
02:34:23,840 --> 02:34:27,840
pants and or I think maybe the
dryer, I don't remember.

2488
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:32,800
Just little things like that.
And that was Friday morning at

2489
02:34:32,800 --> 02:34:35,520
6:00.
By 1:00 in the afternoon, I was

2490
02:34:35,520 --> 02:34:40,800
at the Funeral Home playing my
husband's funeral and picking

2491
02:34:40,880 --> 02:34:46,440
out caskets.
And it came back as an

2492
02:34:46,440 --> 02:34:50,840
accidental overdose because he
was on Ambien for sleeping

2493
02:34:50,840 --> 02:34:55,880
medication.
And to help with all of the

2494
02:34:55,880 --> 02:34:58,760
issues that he was having, the
counselor had put him on two

2495
02:34:58,760 --> 02:35:02,280
different antidepressants, one
for in the morning and one for

2496
02:35:02,280 --> 02:35:06,720
at night.
And his system, he had taken his

2497
02:35:06,720 --> 02:35:11,960
Ambien and then came out that
night.

2498
02:35:11,960 --> 02:35:14,600
And when I told him to get his
ass back to bed, like go back to

2499
02:35:14,600 --> 02:35:18,320
sleep or whatever, I believe we
believe that he went back in and

2500
02:35:18,320 --> 02:35:22,360
took his antidepressant.
But the wrong one, not the night

2501
02:35:22,360 --> 02:35:27,400
time 1, the morning one which
caused him to pass away.

2502
02:35:28,520 --> 02:35:30,360
Dang, wild that they would even
give him both.

2503
02:35:30,520 --> 02:35:33,280
Correct.
Especially with his history and

2504
02:35:33,280 --> 02:35:39,360
everything that was going on, I
would like to say it was an

2505
02:35:39,360 --> 02:35:42,160
accident.
I really, really, really 100%

2506
02:35:42,160 --> 02:35:50,760
would like to hindsight 2020 I'm
80 no seventy 3070% sure that it

2507
02:35:50,760 --> 02:35:54,840
was an accident. 30% might have
been a decision because we were

2508
02:35:54,840 --> 02:35:57,400
not good.
And he pretty much asked me to

2509
02:35:57,400 --> 02:36:00,920
give up Wyatt and I had told him
I don't know who the fuck you

2510
02:36:00,920 --> 02:36:04,400
think you married, but I am.
That's that boy is mine.

2511
02:36:04,440 --> 02:36:08,280
That is my child, you know.
No, no.

2512
02:36:08,600 --> 02:36:11,640
If you think I'll be like your
ex-wife and leave them with you,

2513
02:36:12,800 --> 02:36:16,440
no, no, it won't happen now.
Not ever.

2514
02:36:16,840 --> 02:36:20,520
And I think for the first time
in his life, he was realizing

2515
02:36:20,520 --> 02:36:25,760
that he couldn't manipulate the
situation and that if he wanted

2516
02:36:25,760 --> 02:36:29,080
a clean break out of it, he was
not going to get Wyatt.

2517
02:36:29,240 --> 02:36:31,600
And that was just the way it
was.

2518
02:36:32,040 --> 02:36:35,800
And within three or four months
of us having that conversation

2519
02:36:35,960 --> 02:36:42,080
that happened and hindsight
2020, I found out that he had

2520
02:36:42,080 --> 02:36:46,960
had a girl on the side, which I
didn't know about apparently and

2521
02:36:46,960 --> 02:36:51,440
had already plans to move into
another house or something like

2522
02:36:51,440 --> 02:36:53,360
that.
I didn't know.

2523
02:36:53,360 --> 02:36:57,160
And at that point I really
didn't care, You know, I really

2524
02:36:57,160 --> 02:37:01,920
didn't.
I fought for custody of my step

2525
02:37:01,920 --> 02:37:07,720
kids because, yeah, I'm
wondering if we should look at

2526
02:37:07,720 --> 02:37:11,480
the weather and see if the
tornado is like coming down on

2527
02:37:11,480 --> 02:37:13,120
us 'cause I'm watching it and
I'm going.

2528
02:37:13,120 --> 02:37:17,480
Oh goodness.
Yeah, but the fun, the fun fact

2529
02:37:17,480 --> 02:37:19,520
about this too.
The entire time my windows in my

2530
02:37:19,520 --> 02:37:22,000
car have been open but I'm just
like laser locked in here.

2531
02:37:22,040 --> 02:37:24,400
Oh my goodness, do you wanna lay
out?

2532
02:37:24,440 --> 02:37:26,200
They haven't.
Let's finish off all.

2533
02:37:26,960 --> 02:37:32,120
Right.
So yeah, so I I forgot where I

2534
02:37:32,160 --> 02:37:34,680
was.
You found out about the mistress

2535
02:37:34,680 --> 02:37:36,520
or the girl that he.
Was yeah, the essentially.

2536
02:37:36,520 --> 02:37:39,640
Move in with.
The girl, yes, and I think I

2537
02:37:39,640 --> 02:37:43,400
called and have had a
conversation with her after his

2538
02:37:43,400 --> 02:37:46,280
funeral and stuff and she had
said yes that they were moving

2539
02:37:46,280 --> 02:37:49,400
in or something like that, but
he was at home every night.

2540
02:37:49,400 --> 02:37:52,280
So I'm like OK, how much of a
relationship could you have

2541
02:37:52,280 --> 02:37:55,520
really had?
I also found all the pills that

2542
02:37:55,520 --> 02:38:00,600
he was buying from offline, he
had like I think 17 credit cards

2543
02:38:00,600 --> 02:38:06,320
that were maxed out beyond maxed
because he had bought and stuff

2544
02:38:06,320 --> 02:38:10,440
pills off a line from overseas
because he was still like pill

2545
02:38:10,440 --> 02:38:16,000
seeking and she was a in the
medical field and had access to

2546
02:38:16,000 --> 02:38:18,600
that kind of thing.
And I think he was using her as

2547
02:38:18,600 --> 02:38:22,400
that and filling her in and
getting her all worked up.

2548
02:38:22,400 --> 02:38:25,080
And you know what I mean?
So how much of that is true?

2549
02:38:25,080 --> 02:38:27,920
I don't really know.
I just know that he was.

2550
02:38:28,480 --> 02:38:31,760
That's what I knew at the end.
And what he was actually doing

2551
02:38:31,760 --> 02:38:33,440
are two totally different
things.

2552
02:38:33,520 --> 02:38:40,080
And so, yeah, he passed away and
that was January of 2012.

2553
02:38:41,080 --> 02:38:45,320
And by the time July came
around, I kind of found out

2554
02:38:45,320 --> 02:38:49,400
where all the finances were and
found out I wasn't on anything.

2555
02:38:49,720 --> 02:38:52,640
And I like nothing.
Like I had nothing.

2556
02:38:53,760 --> 02:38:59,280
My father-in-law had put
insurance on my vehicle, life

2557
02:38:59,280 --> 02:39:01,880
insurance on my vehicle, which
was in his name.

2558
02:39:01,880 --> 02:39:04,600
So literally when he passed
away, that was the only thing

2559
02:39:04,600 --> 02:39:07,840
that was like paid off.
So I walked away from that

2560
02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:11,000
marriage with a vehicle and that
was it.

2561
02:39:11,160 --> 02:39:18,160
And I moved back to Shawno and
yeah.

2562
02:39:18,520 --> 02:39:20,280
Totaled into talking to Brant
again.

2563
02:39:20,680 --> 02:39:22,960
Yes, yes.
Well, actually he is the one

2564
02:39:22,960 --> 02:39:25,680
that helped me move because he
owns a moving business.

2565
02:39:25,680 --> 02:39:28,520
He's the one that helped me move
from Grayling back to Shawno.

2566
02:39:28,840 --> 02:39:31,160
And that was the conversation,
do you want to move back in with

2567
02:39:31,160 --> 02:39:33,360
me?
And I said, no, I need to move

2568
02:39:33,360 --> 02:39:36,240
back to Shawno.
I need to go finish my degree

2569
02:39:36,240 --> 02:39:39,200
that I've wanted to do my whole
life and I've never done because

2570
02:39:39,200 --> 02:39:42,480
everything else is stepped in
and I need to heal.

2571
02:39:42,920 --> 02:39:48,280
And so I moved back to Shawno
and I healed the two years and

2572
02:39:48,280 --> 02:39:52,000
Oh yeah, that Windows moving.
Those are, yeah.

2573
02:39:52,000 --> 02:39:54,480
They're like garage doors.
OK, All right.

2574
02:39:55,640 --> 02:39:58,720
Yeah, that's a little freaky,
kind of fitting nation, kind of

2575
02:39:58,760 --> 02:40:00,400
a.
Fitting ending to the to the

2576
02:40:00,400 --> 02:40:02,240
episode I think.
Like what?

2577
02:40:02,240 --> 02:40:06,400
A roller coaster ride.
Yeah, yeah, it's so yes.

2578
02:40:06,520 --> 02:40:13,200
In 2012, I or no, 2012, 2014, I
graduated with a medical

2579
02:40:13,200 --> 02:40:19,440
assistant degree or associate's
degree in nursing and moved in

2580
02:40:19,440 --> 02:40:26,200
with Brant, got married and
seriously, my worst day in my

2581
02:40:26,200 --> 02:40:31,280
marriage now is like the best
day of my marriage.

2582
02:40:31,680 --> 02:40:35,680
In my last marriage.
He's just, I've so enjoyed the

2583
02:40:35,680 --> 02:40:38,880
last.
How many years since 2014?

2584
02:40:38,880 --> 02:40:39,800
How many years?
10 years.

2585
02:40:39,800 --> 02:40:44,440
Now I'm going on 10 years.
It's just really, I've been

2586
02:40:44,440 --> 02:40:48,320
going to therapy, healing
myself, discovering myself,

2587
02:40:50,240 --> 02:40:54,920
decide just went through a lot
of health issues, autoimmune

2588
02:40:54,920 --> 02:40:56,720
things.
They told me I had lupus.

2589
02:40:56,720 --> 02:40:59,440
They were telling me I had miss.
They were telling me like I had

2590
02:40:59,440 --> 02:41:03,040
all this stuff and no, my brain
was just fried because of

2591
02:41:03,040 --> 02:41:06,320
everything I experienced and my
body was just finally screaming

2592
02:41:06,320 --> 02:41:08,560
at me.
You need to heal your brain.

2593
02:41:08,560 --> 02:41:12,200
And if you don't, your body's
going to fall apart because your

2594
02:41:12,200 --> 02:41:18,040
body holds accountability.
And if you don't release that,

2595
02:41:18,040 --> 02:41:19,760
then you're just going to
continue.

2596
02:41:20,280 --> 02:41:23,400
And nobody could have empathized
with you because no one's been

2597
02:41:23,840 --> 02:41:26,000
through that, correct?
That colossal amount of shit.

2598
02:41:26,120 --> 02:41:28,480
Correct.
So once I started healing my

2599
02:41:28,480 --> 02:41:33,400
brain and eating healthy, making
sure that I was everything that

2600
02:41:33,400 --> 02:41:37,720
was going in me was healthy,
everything that was good, then

2601
02:41:37,720 --> 02:41:40,000
things just started like turning
around.

2602
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:41,840
I started being able to move
again.

2603
02:41:41,840 --> 02:41:45,040
I started, like, rediscovering
things.

2604
02:41:45,040 --> 02:41:51,520
And so now I became a health nut
and eat herbs and grow my own

2605
02:41:51,520 --> 02:41:54,600
stuff and all of that kind of
stuff and went down on the whole

2606
02:41:54,600 --> 02:41:58,480
deep dive of, you know, just
living a good, healthy, clean

2607
02:41:58,480 --> 02:42:00,800
life.
And you'll be healthy and clean

2608
02:42:00,800 --> 02:42:04,280
and life is so much more fun and
enjoyable.

2609
02:42:04,640 --> 02:42:08,280
And yeah.
We raised three boys together.

2610
02:42:08,920 --> 02:42:16,600
He had two children and I had my
son and yeah, enjoyed football

2611
02:42:16,600 --> 02:42:19,720
and all three of them played
sports and just.

2612
02:42:20,240 --> 02:42:24,160
And now we're empty nesters
officially and picking up my

2613
02:42:24,160 --> 02:42:29,200
youngest at basic training to
send them off to college for and

2614
02:42:29,200 --> 02:42:32,440
waiting to see what this next
phase in life brings me because

2615
02:42:33,520 --> 02:42:37,040
I'm just ready for whatever.
For your sake, I hope it's calm

2616
02:42:37,040 --> 02:42:40,160
seas.
Honestly, I hope that it is

2617
02:42:40,200 --> 02:42:43,960
exciting and filled with new
experiences.

2618
02:42:43,960 --> 02:42:46,440
I started.
I opened up a special needs

2619
02:42:46,480 --> 02:42:53,040
adult day camp for the summer
and I am crazy into bass

2620
02:42:53,040 --> 02:42:57,360
fishing.
So I want to start a bass

2621
02:42:57,360 --> 02:43:01,880
fishing tour thing in Florida
and spend half of my time in

2622
02:43:01,880 --> 02:43:04,360
Florida half up here because I
hate the cold.

2623
02:43:04,960 --> 02:43:08,960
Desperately hate the cold.
So my husband and I are starting

2624
02:43:08,960 --> 02:43:17,800
a bait on business in Florida
slash bass fishing in Florida

2625
02:43:17,800 --> 02:43:20,960
for December, the end of
November to like April.

2626
02:43:20,960 --> 02:43:25,440
And then we come home and do the
moving business for him in the

2627
02:43:25,440 --> 02:43:30,320
summer and for me the special
needs day camp for adults.

2628
02:43:30,760 --> 02:43:33,080
And that's where we're headed
right now.

2629
02:43:33,080 --> 02:43:36,440
We'll see how it goes.
We've done neither of those.

2630
02:43:36,440 --> 02:43:40,480
This is the first time.
So, you know, see if it works.

2631
02:43:40,480 --> 02:43:42,960
If it doesn't work, we'll pivot
and do something else.

2632
02:43:42,960 --> 02:43:45,560
But right now, that's the grand
scheme of things.

2633
02:43:45,560 --> 02:43:51,080
So taking the world by the seat
of his pants and figuring out

2634
02:43:51,080 --> 02:43:54,080
where it was going to go.
So, yeah, this summer was the

2635
02:43:54,080 --> 02:43:56,400
first summer I did the day camp.
That's been fun.

2636
02:43:57,520 --> 02:43:59,800
New.
Yeah.

2637
02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:03,320
And you know, we'll see in
November, after Thanksgiving,

2638
02:44:03,320 --> 02:44:06,760
we're heading to Florida to
really dive in and see if we can

2639
02:44:06,760 --> 02:44:11,520
make the fishing thing work.
I wish you the best of luck,

2640
02:44:11,520 --> 02:44:12,080
Shifra.
Thank.

2641
02:44:12,320 --> 02:44:14,400
You.
I appreciate you coming on and

2642
02:44:14,400 --> 02:44:17,280
sharing your story.
This is officially the

2643
02:44:17,400 --> 02:44:21,880
officially the longest episode
of Druta Wisconsin, almost 3

2644
02:44:21,880 --> 02:44:22,840
hours.
Oh wow.

2645
02:44:23,240 --> 02:44:26,000
And I have been at the edge of
my seat the.

2646
02:44:26,600 --> 02:44:28,560
Entire.
Time if you couldn't tell.

2647
02:44:29,120 --> 02:44:31,720
We could have a whole nother
conversation I think, and maybe

2648
02:44:31,720 --> 02:44:34,560
we will someday.
About how I want to.

2649
02:44:34,720 --> 02:44:37,320
I'd love to dive more into post
cult.

2650
02:44:38,040 --> 02:44:39,680
Like you glossed over it like it
was easy.

2651
02:44:39,680 --> 02:44:43,080
You had some really uphill
battles there of like from

2652
02:44:43,080 --> 02:44:46,080
communication to whatever.
Well, I even brought along,

2653
02:44:46,080 --> 02:44:49,600
like, pamphlet, like the
propaganda that they used to

2654
02:44:49,600 --> 02:44:52,920
hand out, you know, like, all of
the, like, we didn't even touch

2655
02:44:52,920 --> 02:44:56,280
on that and how he went from
Christianity to Judaism and got

2656
02:44:56,280 --> 02:45:00,320
the whole place to do that.
Like, you know, and like just.

2657
02:45:00,320 --> 02:45:01,960
Yeah.
The manipulation and the

2658
02:45:01,960 --> 02:45:03,280
craziness that goes along.
Yes.

2659
02:45:03,280 --> 02:45:05,200
There's so many ways to dive
into this.

2660
02:45:05,400 --> 02:45:07,520
Yeah, thank you.
I appreciate you.

2661
02:45:07,520 --> 02:45:11,040
Yes, it was awesome meeting you
and what a lovely conversation.

2662
02:45:11,040 --> 02:45:12,640
Awesome.
I think there might be another

2663
02:45:12,640 --> 02:45:15,240
one in our future ship.
I think so, yes.

2664
02:45:15,280 --> 02:45:18,720
And a lifelong friend you I
you've got good vibes coming

2665
02:45:18,720 --> 02:45:21,640
from you.
I'm full into energy.

2666
02:45:21,640 --> 02:45:24,160
We all our energy, we're nothing
but an energy bean.

2667
02:45:24,520 --> 02:45:28,520
Our heart is literally a closed
electrical circuit.

2668
02:45:29,120 --> 02:45:32,160
And if you think of it that way,
we are nothing but electrical

2669
02:45:32,160 --> 02:45:37,800
beans and we give off energy.
And if US growing up in the

2670
02:45:37,800 --> 02:45:41,600
trauma filled environment, we
are very highly sensitive to

2671
02:45:41,600 --> 02:45:45,320
everybody's energy.
And I have learned how to cope

2672
02:45:45,320 --> 02:45:47,480
with that.
Usually it scares me, but I've

2673
02:45:47,480 --> 02:45:50,480
learned to cope with it and
reading people and understanding

2674
02:45:50,680 --> 02:45:52,480
the kind of energy that they're
putting off.

2675
02:45:52,960 --> 02:45:56,880
You have fantastic energy.
So when I say that, I mean that

2676
02:45:56,880 --> 02:45:58,800
immensely.
Thank you.

2677
02:45:58,920 --> 02:46:00,760
Not everybody does.
That's true.

2678
02:46:00,760 --> 02:46:03,640
They try and they try to hide
it, you know, like, you can

2679
02:46:03,640 --> 02:46:05,720
really feel who they really are.
Oh, yeah.

2680
02:46:06,360 --> 02:46:09,320
Whether they're fake or real.
And, you know, a lot of people

2681
02:46:09,320 --> 02:46:12,000
are good at faking it and.
Well, and with the story you

2682
02:46:12,000 --> 02:46:15,560
told today, like you, you
developed that keen sense

2683
02:46:15,560 --> 02:46:17,920
because you've had to.
Had to yes, you had.

2684
02:46:17,920 --> 02:46:20,480
You had to be aware of your
surroundings 24/7.

2685
02:46:20,760 --> 02:46:26,200
If you did were not you got
severely punished for it.

2686
02:46:26,200 --> 02:46:31,880
You know, you got the the kick,
you got the whip, you got the

2687
02:46:31,880 --> 02:46:35,440
garden hose, you got you got it.
So you just had to.

2688
02:46:36,720 --> 02:46:41,240
And as you get older and you go
out into the real world, you

2689
02:46:41,240 --> 02:46:45,160
realize that other people put a
certain energies and certain

2690
02:46:45,160 --> 02:46:50,160
things.
And so if and those things scare

2691
02:46:50,160 --> 02:46:54,360
you and that actually causes a
fear, so you kind of like go

2692
02:46:54,360 --> 02:46:56,040
away from it.
You know, like if you're really

2693
02:46:56,040 --> 02:47:00,520
loud or very like just certain
energies kind of put you off

2694
02:47:00,520 --> 02:47:03,760
because you're leery of being
put into that situation.

2695
02:47:04,280 --> 02:47:09,520
So you've learned to navigate
your whole life around that when

2696
02:47:09,520 --> 02:47:12,880
you're in and when you're out
because it saves you from

2697
02:47:12,880 --> 02:47:15,840
running into bad people or
people who use take you for

2698
02:47:15,840 --> 02:47:18,600
advantage.
Because a lot of people come out

2699
02:47:18,600 --> 02:47:22,440
and they're so naive and so just
that they take get taken

2700
02:47:22,440 --> 02:47:25,240
advantage of and they get hurt
and then they run back to what

2701
02:47:25,240 --> 02:47:26,880
they know.
So they go back to the cult.

2702
02:47:27,200 --> 02:47:30,840
So a lot of the people have been
out but run back because, you

2703
02:47:30,920 --> 02:47:35,720
know, the outside world is cruel
too, if not more cruel in many

2704
02:47:35,720 --> 02:47:39,040
ways.
Absolutely mold your life around

2705
02:47:39,040 --> 02:47:40,600
catching big bass.
I like catching big.

2706
02:47:40,600 --> 02:47:46,800
Bass Yes, ��9 9 lbs four ounces.
That's your PB.

2707
02:47:46,840 --> 02:47:49,680
Nice.
Yes, and my husband beat me by 9

2708
02:47:49,680 --> 02:47:55,160
lbs seven oz.
Same trip, different week, but

2709
02:47:55,240 --> 02:47:55,800
yes.
Nice.

2710
02:47:56,760 --> 02:47:58,200
Well, thanks again, chef.
Friend, thank you.