Sarah Hankes - Wildlife Woodburning, Grandma's Feedback & Finding Your Style | Episode #64

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What's up friends, welcome back
to Rooted Wisconsin.

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Appreciate you for clicking
another episode.

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Grateful to have you here.
Today's episode is with Sarah

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Hankes from Blue Horse fine art,
unbelievable wood burned art

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that she makes guitars, any
piece of wood she can get her

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hands on is unbelievable.
Specializes in wildlife, so many

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cool like wolves, white tailed
deer, fish, horses and a whole

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lot more.
Great conversation too.

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We talked about her journey into
the arts.

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She has a painting background,
how she was introduced to it by

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her grandmother and some
impactful teachers throughout

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her life, and much much more.
Passion for art is clear and a

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really fun conversation.
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off projects as well to check
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Appreciate them and we
appreciate you for being here.

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Let's get this episode started
with Sarah Hankes.

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So.
Have the ways we try to lift our

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neighbors.
So we usually just start

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chatting and then he'll start
the episode wherever.

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It's like natural progression
where the road's pretty bad

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today.
Yeah.

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Well, actually there were
definitely slimy, but we had the

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truck, so it worked out pretty
good.

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So.
But it's more like following

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some of the really slow people,
like, yeah, of course it's

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Wisconsin.
You know that almost make it

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more dangerous sometimes when
you go like super super slow.

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Right.
But you know, I'm guilty of

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doing that in my car sometimes,
like I'm that person who's

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driving like the grandma.
And I feel bad because I know

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that there's people behind me,
so sometimes I will pull off so

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they can pass me.
But yeah, you know, trying to be

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courteous, but it doesn't always
work out that way and.

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Patience is a virtue for
everybody.

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Yeah, we were.
You know, I was having a

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discussion with my boyfriend
about that the other day with

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people who road rage so bad.
I noticed like Manitowoc County

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seems I think it's bad for it
because I moved up there a

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while, like I didn't grow up
there.

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So it's I always laugh because
like some of the people, like my

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daughter when she was learning
how to drive, like some of the

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people Rd.
Raging were so bad.

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Yeah.
It's almost entertaining though,

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in a sense like.
It is it.

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So that's something I've like,
that's a been a point of

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intention for my life.
Like I'm really trying to get

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better at that.
It's funny because like in the

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grand scheme of life, I'm very
laid back, like almost about

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almost everything.
But it's something about driving

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and I had AI had an anger expert
who from here in Green Bay on a

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few months ago.
Oh, that.

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Had to be cool.
Super cool dude and we talked

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about it a little bit and he had
a lot of cool points that make

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sense about how like being like,
how are we perceiving the others

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driving?
So like, is it someone who's

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stopping us from getting a goal
in our head or we have to be

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there super quickly?
Or like, what's the true reason

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behind anger when you're driving
specifically?

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And I thought it was fascinating
to think about because my wife's

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been, she, she's laughed at me
since we got together.

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We've been together over 10
years now.

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And she's just like, you're
always just so chill until you

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drive.
There's that one trigger point

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for everybody.
Yeah, yeah.

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And we have a four year old and
stuff, so I got to tame it down.

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Got.
To tame it down.

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But I get it.
But good.

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I'm glad you got here safe.
Appreciate you coming.

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Thank you and I've been excited
to chat.

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Like it's awesome that you
brought this huge piece for

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everybody to look at because
like I found you on TikTok and

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like the the quality of it jumps
off the screen and I was just

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super intrigued by it.
I love wildlife art the way it

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is and it's and it seems like
that's one of your focus, if not

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the focus area.
Is that right, the focus?

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Like I will do things that
people ask me to do, but if it's

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outside of my regular style, you
know, I begrudgingly agree, so

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I'll do it.
But it's more of my focus is

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stuff in the wild.
Yeah.

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And is that like a point of
passion for you?

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How did that start?
So that, I mean, like, I've

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always been into animals.
Like growing up, I remember

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running around galloping,
pretending to be a horse when I

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was a kid.
So like, I've always wanted

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horses.
So I eventually got horses when

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I was a teen.
And then, you know, I always had

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dogs and cats and things like
that growing up.

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And then, yeah, I just, I bought
a farm.

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But you know what I mean?
That's The thing is moving out

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in the country and growing up in
the country, you know, you see

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so many animals and you kind of
take it for granted a little

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bit, I think, when you see it
from little on.

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But as I've gotten older, I've
learned to appreciate it so much

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more.
Yeah, absolutely.

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It's like something what's
immediately apparent to us in

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our lives.
Sometimes we overlook as like

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normal.
Yeah, absolutely.

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And it's easy to take things for
granted and, and stuff like

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that.
And and I don't know, anytime,

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anytime I feel connected to
wildlife or nature, like I just

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feel better and then so that.
At peace.

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It's like where we're supposed
to be, kind of. 100% yeah.

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That's one of my go to things.
I've told that to countless

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people.
Like when you say like you're

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talking about just what are the
things you enjoy or like when do

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you feel alive?
For me, it's like when I'm as

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far in the woods as possible
with a without anybody around.

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That's where I feel connected
and feel, you know, whole.

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Yeah, and it's heard a lot of
people say that too.

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And it's so funny because like
growing up, you know, in the

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country and playing in the woods
and climbing trees when I was a

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kid, like, you know, you don't
really take that until you.

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I mean, I then I moved to the
city for a while.

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Like not the city city, I would
guess if you want to call it

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like Fond du Lac city, but I've
lived in town and it was kind of

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a culture shock for me.
Like I had fun with it, but at

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the same time that I found
myself starting to really miss

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that nature.
So it's, I mean, it just you

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take it as something that's
always going to be there until

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you don't have access to it as
much anymore, so.

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Yeah, absolutely.
Again, it's easy to yearn for

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when you don't have it for a
while.

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Yes, absolutely.
So where does art start?

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I'm assuming this isn't like
this.

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This obviously isn't your first
piece.

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Is this the first style of art?
Or where does art start for?

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You it's been progressing so
much over the years.

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It's it's honestly kind of like
one of those things where I feel

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like it's kind of taken its own
path, you know, if I just kind

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of let it.
So I started out I drew since I

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could pick up a pencil like I
grew up in a lawnmower shop

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because my parents own 1 and I
was bored, you know, like I had

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neighborhood friends to play
with.

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So I do remember drawing from
like little on and then grandma

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was a really awesome painter and
I never really knew she was that

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great of a painter, but she had
like an arts and crafts room.

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So I go visit her and
everything.

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And eventually she started
teaching me how to paint little

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by little.
Like we started off just

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painting like those little
plaster like figurines.

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So we always had fun going to
the art store and doing that.

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And then over time she started
teaching me, you know, different

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things in art.
It's kind of, I laugh about it

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because she just had this nature
about her that she was such a

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good teacher and you'd never
really know it because she was,

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I want to say she's a quiet
woman.

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She's kind of a blunt woman.
But I needed that a little bit.

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Like there's things that
obviously like I would do and

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then she'd be like, you could do
so much better.

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Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, yeah.

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So, you know, I mean, I she
taught me how to paint.

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And then from there I tried to
experiment with different

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mediums and things like that.
Eventually I wanted to go to

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school to be an art teacher, so
I took some art courses in

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college, and I always had really
great art teachers throughout

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high school too, so I always had
that influence that I wanted to

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keep doing it.
And yeah, eventually it

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progressed onto this, which was
just kind of a fun twist of

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events and how it happened.
So how did Yeah then?

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Then how did you start burning
wood?

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So in 2014, I started for a few
months and I got one of those

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like they have, you know, you go
to Hobby Lobby or I.

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Had one as a kid, like the the
small wood burning kids you're

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talking about, yeah.
Looks like a little soldering

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iron or whatever.
So I started out with one of

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those and I, I sucked at it.
You know, it's just kind of one

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of those things where I could do
the lines and I could do the

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simple things and I thought it
was fun for a second.

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So it's kind of passing novelty.
But then then I think a couple

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years ago I bought, I bought
like a another cheap wood burner

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because I'm like, I kind of came
short of my dad for Christmas.

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I need to make him something.
So I made him a shop sign and it

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was just real simple.
Like it wasn't artistic by any

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means.
It was just a little like

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grandpa's shop sign.
So he thought it was like the

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coolest thing ever.
So then all of a sudden, I want

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to say it was last year, last
summer, I was in, he walks in,

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he's a big rummage sailor.
He likes in marketplace.

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Like he likes to go and buy all
these random use things.

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So he was out rummage sailing
and he walks in with this old

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vintage wood burner.
Like I mean, so they looked like

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it was from like the 70s.
It's all metal.

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And I'm thinking great, it's
going to be interesting.

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Like it's probably going to work
like crap.

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And I think I sat there with it
for probably 2-3 months before I

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actually fired it up.
And I'm like things like game

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changer.
Like it got really hot and it

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maintained its heat and I was
able to do so much more with it.

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And you know, so I then I
realized people really liked

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that style of work.
And then I'm like, what else can

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I challenge myself to do with
it?

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And then it kind of progressed
from there.

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Really.
Then by I wouldn't say the

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following January.
So yeah, I want to say not last

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year, the year before.
So the following January I

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challenged myself to do like
this 9 foot piece and it went

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really good and it just got me
hooked.

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Couldn't stop after that.
So I'm not stopping.

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That's.
So cool.

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And that's the one that's in
like your TikTok videos now with

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the loop at the end of it.
Is that the is that the tool

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you're talking about that he
bought at the rummage sale?

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Yeah, it's kind of hard to
explain.

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So it has the loop.
I I've actually gotten some

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different ones since then.
OK, so I still have the rummage

226
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,920
sale and they're actually,
they're called Detail Master and

227
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,480
they discontinued that brand
back in like the early 2000s, I

228
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,320
want to say.
So now they're kind of a relic.

229
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,880
You find them and it's just like
I I started collecting them

230
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,960
actually on eBay and like that's
the only place you could find

231
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,760
them so.
You know, if they're not making

232
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,280
them anymore, you have to like
with what you're making.

233
00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,880
You can't stop doing this.
So like load them up, fill up

234
00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,880
your garage.
Yeah, that's exactly what I did.

235
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:01,680
But I didn't know a whole lot
about wood burning either at

236
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:04,120
that point in time.
So like so I bought, I had the

237
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,760
first one that my dad gave me
and then I bought two or three

238
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,640
more and just, and actually, as
I say, just in time, I bought

239
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,480
one more and then the original
one that I had blew up.

240
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,920
Like I was actually doing a
TikTok live and it blew up on

241
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,320
live.
Like there was smoke everywhere.

242
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,400
It smelled like burnt plastic.
And I'm like, oh, this is great.

243
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,160
And I was like, literally
talking about how I'm like, this

244
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,920
thing dies.
I die, I don't know, like, I

245
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,800
love it so much.
So I stocked up and got two

246
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,760
more.
And then with that original one

247
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,760
that like burned up, I asked my
dad.

248
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,440
He's an electrician.
He likes to tinker.

249
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,240
So I'm like, hey, like what are
the odds that maybe you can

250
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,160
like, you know, see if you can
fix this or have fun with it, Do

251
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,120
whatever.
So he couldn't fix it.

252
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,880
So he ended up shipping me a
what's called a burn master and

253
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,960
it's comparable to a detail
master, but they're new and

254
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,720
they're still available, but
they're really expensive.

255
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,240
So all of a sudden I come home
to this burn master sitting on

256
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,160
my doorstep and I was like,
whoa, I was so excited about it.

257
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,840
It was exactly what I needed.
So now I know that lease those

258
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,040
are available but.
Yeah, that's awesome.

259
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,760
There's a couple directions I
want to go right now.

260
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,360
One, let's stick on the tool for
a second.

261
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,800
How does it actually work?
I've been wondering that since I

262
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,880
watched your videos.
Like, it's funny, in my mind,

263
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,360
I'm sure this isn't how it
works, but in my mind, I picture

264
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,280
it being like held to a flame
until it gets that glowing, and

265
00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,760
then you go until it cools down
and then it.

266
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,080
But is it like electric or
something?

267
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,160
How?
Yeah, it's like really high

268
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,640
voltage, like it sucks a lot of
juice.

269
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,040
OK, So like versus like the old
style ones, like the ones you're

270
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,720
going to find like Walmart or
Hobby Lobby, like they, they

271
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,680
don't, they suck juice, but they
get hot and then they cool down

272
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,080
right away.
These ones maintain their heat

273
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,880
and that, that tip gets cherry
red, like 1400°.

274
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,800
Yeah, it's crazy.
Like I'll start things on fire

275
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,560
with it.
So it's like, yeah, it's just,

276
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:46,400
it's all electric.
So it hooks in my wall.

277
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,800
And then you get these I, I use
an HD they call it's a heavy

278
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,960
duty cord that hooks between
there for the pen part of it.

279
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,520
So the pen I I have a specific
pen that I like to use and

280
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,160
specific tip like a lot of
people switch a lot of tips like

281
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,760
the little metal parts in the
end and I kind of stick with the

282
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,560
same one all the time.
But yeah, that kind of style of

283
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:10,480
tip like you get has to be able
to handle withhold that amount

284
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,600
of heat.
So it took a little bit of trial

285
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,160
and error because I burned
things up and melted some tips

286
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,800
and you know, there was
definitely some, it was a

287
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,360
learning curve with that part.
Yeah.

288
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,960
And well, and I think that's one
thing that keeps people

289
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,360
sometimes just from art in
general is because like I, I

290
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,880
remember so I've always been
like, I'm envious of this

291
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,200
talent.
I'm not, I'm not artistically

292
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,040
talented in this way.
Like I play music and do some

293
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,560
other things, but I'm envious of
people who can bring things to

294
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:46,160
life visually.
And I think people like think

295
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,560
someone with a talent like you
that can make something like

296
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:52,720
this is just like, wow, you got
really lucky to be able to do

297
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,040
that.
But it's a ton of hard work,

298
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,000
right?
Learning how to do this and

299
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,040
trial and error.
And probably a bunch of pieces

300
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,040
that you said earlier, like some
aren't, weren't great at the

301
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,720
beginning, but then like you
develop your skill, right?

302
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,200
It's like anything else.
It, it is, it is.

303
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,080
But you know, I mean, I think if
you're passionate about

304
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,360
something and they say you said
you're into music and I'm

305
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,080
jealous of people who are
musically inclined.

306
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:13,360
So it's kind of funny.
We all want.

307
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,800
We can't have right A. 100%.
Yeah, but at the same time too,

308
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,640
like I feel like to me it wasn't
a lot of work to get there just

309
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,080
because I I had fun with it.
You know, it's kind of

310
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,760
satisfying just to be able to
like, you know, just burn wood,

311
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,440
like, I'm trying the crap out of
it and just, like, ha, ha, like

312
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,400
watching the flame.
So I'm, like, having fun with it

313
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,440
at the same time.
Yeah, I get my frustration

314
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,720
sometimes, too.
But, you know, I think that's

315
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,080
going to come, like, even with
music, you know, you're getting

316
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,680
something and you can't quite
get that chord or, you know,

317
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,840
it's you.
You work with it though, and you

318
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,280
love it enough it doesn't feel
hard.

319
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:52,800
Yeah, absolutely.
And I don't know, there's got to

320
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,200
be.
It looks anyway, it looks like

321
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:59,280
there's like a a level of being
therapeutic doing this.

322
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:00,880
Is that true?
You feel that?

323
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,720
You know, and this sounds really
weird and I can't even believe

324
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,840
I'm like admitting this on a
podcast, but but there's times

325
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,160
even with painting, I used to
just sit there and like I would

326
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,040
if I didn't play anything,
usually have music or a podcast

327
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,600
or something on.
And I would like if I don't have

328
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,640
anything, I zone.
And it's almost like you get to

329
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,280
levels in your mind, like it's
maybe that's like meditation.

330
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,560
You get to levels in your mind
that you're really not aware of

331
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,200
just normally as you're
functioning because like, like,

332
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,000
you know, everything's so busy
in life.

333
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,520
You're thinking about the next
thing constantly.

334
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,520
So it is therapeutic because I
feel like I've come up with

335
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,520
ideas and just like, you know, I
guess epiphanies in my own head

336
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,800
that I normally probably
wouldn't have come up with had I

337
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,400
just been doing my own thing,
you know, clean the house or

338
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,760
Yeah, yeah, just normal stuff.
Not probably not even always

339
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,640
connected to art, but just
connected to life, right?

340
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,640
Epiphanies about what you should
something you could do at work

341
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,640
differently, or something you
could do in a personal

342
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,240
relationship differently or
something, right?

343
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,120
Yeah, absolutely.
You start not dissecting

344
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,240
necessarily, but thinking about
things in depth.

345
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,840
And you know, I think in a
certain sense to just about life

346
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,120
in general.
And it's given me a lot of

347
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,320
gratitude towards life I think
because, you know, you kind of

348
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,400
think about things that you
really are appreciative of.

349
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,480
I mean, so that you think about
things that are problems in your

350
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,400
life and dissect them that way
and try to solve them.

351
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,360
But at the same time, too, so it
is therapeutic.

352
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,880
Like, I feel like, I don't know,
I really kind of wonder where

353
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,120
I'd be without art, you know?
Yeah, yeah, it's almost

354
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,400
something that, one, it's
something a lot of times that

355
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,000
needs to come out of you, but
two, sometimes you need it.

356
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,920
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

357
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,040
I think a lot of people look at
meditation as this like

358
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,960
grandiose word.
And I, I wish more people were

359
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,600
connected to and like knew about
meditation.

360
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,040
So I've, I've went through this
roller coaster of life of like,

361
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,840
I'll meditate really well for a
couple months and then things

362
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,160
get busy and I let it fall to
the wayside.

363
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,960
And then like I'll realize a
couple months in like, Dang,

364
00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:00,680
like I need to do this again.
And my life and, and outwardly,

365
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:07,200
I'm sure my presence is, is more
positive and effective when I'm

366
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,079
on the top of the mountain
meditating.

367
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,319
I am not doing it.
Absolutely.

368
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,560
I feel like it's a kind of like
general maintenance in your life

369
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,480
really.
But I mean, that's a funny thing

370
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,920
too is I feel like what I do is
like accidental meditation.

371
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,040
Like it's not planned.
It just kind of happens

372
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,800
sometimes where I'm just in that
peaceful setting where my mind

373
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,119
wanders and you know, you can
kind of look at one thought and

374
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,080
just kind of go on to the next.
But it's funny because I used to

375
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,040
be into like, I never really
understood the concept of

376
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,440
meditation until then.
Like I would do yoga classes

377
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,760
when I was younger and stuff and
not really, you know, I would

378
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,440
lay there and be like happen
cold or something, you know,

379
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,560
like, yeah, like you don't
really drown out everything

380
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,880
around you when you're so into
something that you're almost on

381
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,480
autopilot.
It's just weird how that

382
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:49,760
happens.
And all of a sudden somebody

383
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,440
described what what meditations
like for them.

384
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,480
I'm like, that's kind of what
it's like when I'm doing my art.

385
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,840
So I guess it's I don't know if
it is the same thing, but I

386
00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,760
think it is because I feel like
it's helped me a lot.

387
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,680
Yeah, that's such a good point.
And that's kind of what I was

388
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,640
getting at.
Like it's, it's not, it's not

389
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,880
one specific way.
You're just trying to quiet the

390
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,120
noise.
Like I've had a couple

391
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,000
conversations.
I like hunting, I hunt a lot and

392
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,720
I've talked with like friends
who hunt and I'm like when

393
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,200
you're in the woods, like I
don't know, to me like if I do

394
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,760
an all day sit during the rut,
that's an 8 hour meditation.

395
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,040
For me, like it.
Quiets the noise.

396
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,360
It allows me to think about
different segments of my life.

397
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:32,000
Like I, I try not to be a
scroller in the deer stand.

398
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,520
Like I try to leave my phone in
my pocket.

399
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,960
And like a lot of people that
I've talked with like don't even

400
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,280
don't make that connection.
They were in the similar seat to

401
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,080
you.
Like, meditation is one thing,

402
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,440
but this is something I like to
do when really one of the

403
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,440
reasons you like to do it is
because it's meditating.

404
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,480
Yeah, it's almost kind of like a
byproduct of it.

405
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,920
And I always think of it like,
because I've talked to other

406
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,680
people before who said the same
thing.

407
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,480
And you know, I mean, it's like
you get out there in your nature

408
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,600
and you're not, there's so many
outside distractions in normal

409
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,400
everyday life where, you know, I
mean, like, I could sit there in

410
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,200
between and be like, I'm going
to take a quick break and go

411
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,440
scroll.
You know, it's so easy to do and

412
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,080
it you don't even think about it
half the time.

413
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,720
You know, you're going to look
something up on your phone and

414
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,000
all of a sudden you
automatically go to social

415
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,480
media.
You get wrapped up in that for a

416
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,440
while and then, you know, I
mean, it takes away from a lot

417
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,120
of that quiet space that I think
that we don't normally hold for

418
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:24,000
ourselves.
So like being in the woods like

419
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,000
that, I can't even imagine when
you have, you know, 8 hours,

420
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,280
however many hours, they're just
sitting there with nothing but

421
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,080
nature around you and no noise
and nothing to distract your

422
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,400
mind.
So I think that's that's really

423
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,280
cool, actually.
Oh.

424
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,520
It's amazing.
It's, it's one of my, it's one

425
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,040
of my favorite presences to, to
be in like right when the sun

426
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,680
starts to come up and you get to
wake up with the woods and like

427
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,560
eventually the birds start
chirping.

428
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,400
And then if you're lucky, you
hear a little crunch, crunch,

429
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,440
crunch.
And it's man, I don't know.

430
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,240
It's kind of wild though,
because if you think about it,

431
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,560
like with so many distractions
with everybody nowadays, like

432
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,800
feel like the world would be a
better place if everybody got

433
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,800
the opportunity to be able to do
that, you know?

434
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,160
100%.
Like, I think that's part of it

435
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,560
too, is just because like the
distraction, like the level of

436
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,640
distraction that we have is just
so increased now.

437
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,520
And it keeps getting worse and
worse and worse.

438
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,120
So it's like, like the state of
the world gets crazy.

439
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,000
Everybody's more stressed out
and.

440
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,440
More stressed out we have like
instant dopamine in our pocket

441
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,240
whenever you want like I found
you on TikTok is in the middle

442
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,440
of a scrolling on my couch.
You know the 30 minutes in and

443
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,640
like I've always said you don't
remember your best day of

444
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,440
watching TV.
You definitely don't remember

445
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,400
your best day of scrolling
social media either.

446
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,960
But it's these instant little
dopamine shots that keep people

447
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,960
running, and we're certainly not
going to turn the tide on that.

448
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,600
But I think the more people can
just take a few minutes here and

449
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,560
there to intentionally quiet
things.

450
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,360
Absolutely.
I mean, I do think that there's

451
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,520
a lot of benefit with social
media and things like that

452
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,440
because I've learned so many
things from like YouTube or

453
00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,040
from, you know, from TikTok too.
I mean, like, so I have a little

454
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,600
farm and learning how to do
things on my own before I met my

455
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,520
amazing boyfriend, like he helps
me out a lot.

456
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,840
And but before that I'm sitting
here like, I remember my my

457
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,280
furnace, like I was late on
calling to get oil and I'm like,

458
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,800
of course, when the furnace
shuts off because it runs out,

459
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,680
they got there like the same day
or whatever.

460
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,880
And I'm like, I'm probably going
to run out.

461
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,480
And I did, but I was only out
for like an hour, but I had to

462
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,160
restart that furnace myself.
And I'm like, I don't know what

463
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,920
I'm doing.
So I found it on TikTok on how

464
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,400
to do it.
But then I'm sitting here like

465
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,320
in my girl power mode, like,
yeah, I did that myself.

466
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,800
Yeah.
And even like fixing my

467
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,520
lawnmower.
So little things like that.

468
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,200
I mean, social media definitely
has its place, but it's hard not

469
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,080
getting into the habit of just
scrolling.

470
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,160
Like, I know I'm guilty of it,
absolutely, but.

471
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,600
Yeah, most of us are at
different points.

472
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,560
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you're
certainly right.

473
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,360
Like our the 1st house my wife
and I bought like I, I pretty

474
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,120
much remodeled the whole thing
as a YouTube contractor.

475
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,480
I just learned things on YouTube
and just kind of went with it.

476
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,960
And it is there's a ton of value
and that's the, you know, that's

477
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,400
I never would have found your
art without social media.

478
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,400
Like you wouldn't, you'd have to
go through more traditional

479
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,600
channels 20 years ago to share
your art.

480
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,080
Like you'd be at the local
events and you might have to

481
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,120
have like a brick and mortar
store or something.

482
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:21,080
Now you can like film yourself
making it, get people involved

483
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,880
in the story and then share your
talent and your art via this

484
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,240
medium.
So there's obviously a ton of

485
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,720
benefits too.
Like a lot of life, it's

486
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,920
balance.
It really is like I will have to

487
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,640
say like because I I did
Facebook for a long time with my

488
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,480
art and that was with my
paintings and stuff.

489
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,040
And I really didn't, you know,
you know, get anywhere with it

490
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,040
as far as getting followers or
anything until I hit TikTok, you

491
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,640
know, and sometimes it just
takes that one, you know, but

492
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,600
yeah, I mean, the going out and
actually networking like I went

493
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,680
if I work full time too, so I
wouldn't have had the time for

494
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,400
that.
And, you know, maybe maybe that

495
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,960
in the future, maybe I won't
have to work, you know, as hard

496
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,120
full time, you know, because
then I have this if I grow a

497
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:08,120
little bit more, but in that
aspect too, like I definitely

498
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:11,280
have made a lot of sales from
TikTok that I would not have

499
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,960
made.
I'm sure even just in person

500
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,440
networking you have more of a
Direct Line to, you know your

501
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,800
your target market versus a.
100% yeah.

502
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,320
Target market perked my ears up.
Right marketing.

503
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, and it looks like kind of

504
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,840
continuing down that path a
little bit.

505
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,120
I'm, I'm, I'm guessing or
assuming that a lot of your work

506
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,400
is like one on consignment right
now, right?

507
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,160
Like not consignment.
What's the word for that?

508
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,920
On Commission?
Yeah, right.

509
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,160
Where someone reaches out to you
with a project idea and you

510
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,160
bring it to life.
Like the guitars and stuff or or

511
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,600
do you create and then sell?
Or what's the mix?

512
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,640
Between I do have a big mixture
actually.

513
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,840
So like this stuff, I mean, I'm
actually working on a lot of

514
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:55,920
stuff.
I'm going to be at the Midwest

515
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,040
Horse Fair in April and I
realized I barely have anything

516
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,600
for it.
So that's what this is for is

517
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,600
I'm starting with that, you
know, just starting a lot of

518
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,160
original pieces.
And I feel like I enjoy doing

519
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,240
the original pieces more because
I can just kind of take what's

520
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,640
in my brain and burn it on to a
chunk of wood.

521
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,200
So I do enjoy doing that, but I
do commissions, like Christmas

522
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,880
was crazy with missions.
So it's a lot of dog portraits

523
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,800
and things like that.
But like, and I have fun with

524
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,160
them and I love doing that for
somebody, but at the same time,

525
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,480
like that's not 100% where my
heart is.

526
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,800
Does that make sense?
A. 100% yeah.

527
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,200
Like it's, I mean like anything
else, if, if it's something that

528
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,520
comes out of you because it's in
you and there's no outward

529
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,000
pressure, that's the the roots
of our artisticness.

530
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,480
Absolutely, absolutely.
And sometimes people give you

531
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,520
complete artistic freedom, which
is awesome.

532
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,960
Like the guitars that's kind of
AI had a couple commissions for

533
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,400
guitars and normally I stop
doing custom commissions of

534
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,520
guitars because I work with
somebody out of Arizona and he

535
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,440
ships me all the guitar bodies
and then he does all the

536
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,240
assembly.
So that one's it's one-of-a-kind

537
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,400
guitars.
Like he's right now he's only on

538
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,400
Instagram, but he's just
starting out and he used to do

539
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,640
like steel guitars and steel
instruments years ago and he

540
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,440
sold to quite a few big names
and then he got out of it

541
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,840
because of the purists.
So we are collaborating and

542
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,720
doing this.
So yeah, the Commission part

543
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,120
with that, I did a couple of
them and then I, I cut it off

544
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,440
there just because I got to be a
little bit too much.

545
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,120
We're throwing money around
because I'm throwing money at

546
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:24,840
him to assemble.
And then I'm just like, let's

547
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,120
just streamline this.
Yeah.

548
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,440
And you have this really long
lead time of like you have a

549
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,120
bunch of invested in it, but you
have, you know, you can't sell

550
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,600
it for like, how long did this
take?

551
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,760
This, this this horse one?
OK.

552
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,440
That's not the norm.
That's not, it's not the norm

553
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,800
that it only takes me a couple
of days, but I would say that

554
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,520
only took me about 12 hours,
maybe 16.

555
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,240
OK.
But a lot of times I'll be stuck

556
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,520
on one thing and trying to make
a decision about something and

557
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,960
it'll take me closer to like a
week.

558
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,600
So it can take me up to 20-30
hours.

559
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,120
But yeah, really depends
obviously on the size of detail.

560
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:58,200
But I was experimenting with a,
with a torch on this and

561
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,200
different size torches.
So I have the butane torches and

562
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,960
I wanted to get some cool
effects of the clouds and

563
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:03,280
everything.
I.

564
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,520
Was gonna say that's the clouds
and in here that's this is torch

565
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:07,440
work.
Yeah.

566
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,160
OK.
Yeah.

567
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,240
So that was, I don't know,
something, I haven't used this

568
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,840
much torchwork before and a
piece, but it was fun and I got

569
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:15,960
some really cool effects with
it.

570
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,160
So.
And then it flowed.

571
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,120
Like sometimes you get things
that don't flow and sometimes

572
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,360
you get things that do.
A lot of times I think what

573
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,600
takes the longest is actually
just the drawing itself, getting

574
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,600
the proportions right.
There's still things sometimes

575
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,680
where I'm like, I'm working on a
piece right now with a calf and

576
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,600
a horse and I'm like,
something's wrong with his jaw.

577
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,000
I I know, I just know it.
Like everybody says, it looks

578
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,200
good, but you know, yeah.
There's that piece that you can

579
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,240
see.
Yeah, like I can pick it apart

580
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,040
and that's all that jumps out at
me at that point.

581
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,160
So then I get stuck on that and
it takes a while to fix it so.

582
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:52,040
Yeah, it's awesome.
It's it's just so striking.

583
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,720
Thank you.
And it's like the same you, you

584
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,440
know, in person like you
mentioned actually the smaller

585
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,560
one behind you about how you or
maybe not that one, but the

586
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,800
other couple that you put some
kind of finish on and something

587
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,560
and it took away some of the
detail you said.

588
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:07,720
Yeah, I could show those off
too.

589
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,040
So I use Poly acrylic.
And The thing is like, so do you

590
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,480
have TikTok videos of this one?
Yeah, I do have this one.

591
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,040
So I did that one and it was
very contrasting and very

592
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,880
detailed.
And it's usually put the Poly

593
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,320
acrylic and this is, I'm pretty
sure it's a cherry burl.

594
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,800
And each wood reacts so
differently.

595
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480
So a lot of it's learning about
how woods behave and especially

596
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,360
when you put a finish on it.
And this one for some reason, it

597
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:30,640
just dulled it down a little
bit.

598
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,480
So I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna
have to probably go through and

599
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,360
try to do some tweaks to it.
But but same with.

600
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,040
The horns on that one are just
crazy like that.

601
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,400
That seems like it would be a
harder part to me, the detail of

602
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,840
the horns.
I was a little scared of them,

603
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,360
but honestly, like it's weird
because I feel like deer antlers

604
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,520
are more tough than what this
was because this is a lot of

605
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,240
line work.
Like you can kind of see how the

606
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,880
lines go.
So as long as you do a fine line

607
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,160
and a lot of times it just you
can do a fine line with I, I use

608
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,600
a spoon tip on like everything.
So I know like a lot of

609
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,520
pyrographers probably laugh at
me because there's probably a

610
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,240
lot of opportunity and I'm
missing by not using all these

611
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,400
other tips.
But if you reduce the heat, you

612
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,640
can get a really fine line
still.

613
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,840
I'm like, it's just a more
playing with the heat than it is

614
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,480
than it is actually playing with
the tips and switching things

615
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,400
out, at least in my experience.
Everybody's different in how

616
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,200
they burn, but yeah.
So you actually brought up

617
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,440
something there a minute ago
that I've been intrigued by and

618
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,960
excited to ask you about the
different types of wood.

619
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,520
Yeah.
What types of wood do you use?

620
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:36,520
And how do you acquire it?
What's the prep work necessary?

621
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,680
Like I, I knew a bunch had to go
into that because like, I mean,

622
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,760
if you've ever burned a
fireplace, you know that this

623
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,800
wood burns different than this
wood and they're all going to

624
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,400
react differently.
So how does how does that whole

625
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,720
thing work as part of the art?
That's so funny actually,

626
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,280
because like, things that I
never thought I'd burn on ended

627
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:58,800
up burning better for me.
So.

628
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,000
OK, so most pyrographers are all
like, oh, let's do basswood.

629
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Like it's, you know, basswood's
probably the easiest way to go.

630
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,480
A lot of carvers use that too.
It's kind of a softer wood, and

631
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,280
it does burn great.
And you have a kind of high

632
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,280
contrast, but I feel like it's,
so I don't know, like what the

633
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,920
word I'm looking for is.
It's almost generic because it's

634
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,600
just there's not a lot of grain
involved.

635
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,360
It's kind of, you know, basic.
Yeah, it's very basic.

636
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,800
Like go to Hobby Lobby and get
some of those round basswood

637
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,200
pieces.
And I like to do portraits on

638
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,920
them because they allow you a
little bit more control.

639
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,040
But somebody to order, I went
to, I ordered the sawmill in

640
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000
Winneconne and they had like the
most beautiful woodcuts there.

641
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,520
And of course, everything I went
there for like like one slab.

642
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,840
I wanted to buy that like a
really big piece.

643
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,680
So I went and bought a giant
piece of pine.

644
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,840
But as I'm there, I ended up
spending way more than I

645
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,880
intended to because I'm like,
that's beautiful.

646
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,360
That's beautiful.
I'm not sure how it's going to

647
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,320
burn, but we're going to try it.
So then I, I had the opportunity

648
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,320
in that case to experiment with
a lot of different cuts.

649
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,880
And I'm glad I did because some
of the things that I didn't

650
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,040
think would burn very well, like
black walnut burns beautifully.

651
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,400
It's a harder wood, you know,
but the, the lines are so clean.

652
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,880
So there was a guy out of he was
in Chicago and he wanted it for

653
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,400
his office and he wanted to have
like Lake Saint Clair.

654
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,240
Is it Lake Saint Clair?
I think it's, it's called, it's

655
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,200
like over by Canada, kind of.
So he musky fishes there and

656
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,880
there's like the colony towers
in the background.

657
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,720
And I'm thinking to myself, I'm
like, I don't know how to get

658
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,240
that detail in the back.
But with that kind of wood, it

659
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,240
was actually relatively easy.
So I feel like each wood has its

660
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,320
purpose.
And you know, I mean, obviously

661
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,680
prepping, it's really important
and I've learned that along the

662
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,680
way because I've had some that
have like these wild waves in

663
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,480
it.
Like, you know, I'm sitting here

664
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,520
thinking, I thought I sanded it
enough and here I didn't.

665
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,520
So sanding is really important
to have a good flat surface.

666
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,640
You can work with the grain in
some cases, but I definitely

667
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,360
feel like it's been kind of a
little trial and error again,

668
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,800
just on that aspect of it.
Sure.

669
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,560
Yeah.
And most of the time if you're

670
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,360
going to buy them, that's just
that's just rough cut slabs,

671
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,680
right.
So you have to sand that all

672
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,280
down perfectly smooth and stuff
before you start on it.

673
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,400
Yeah, typically.
And he had a couple pieces

674
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,520
there.
They're actually already pretty

675
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,560
smooth.
But you know, I mean, they still

676
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,200
benefited from a little bit
sanding because he planes them

677
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,840
and everything there and then
they're all kiln dried.

678
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,120
So that's, that's actually one
thing I should bring up is that

679
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,440
like having a dry enough wood is
really important because then

680
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,600
it's nothing like selling in a
high dollar piece and then

681
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,680
starts splitting like so you
know, just something that's

682
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,360
already, you know, it's, it's
dry, you're not going to have to

683
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,200
worry about any issues.
And plus it burns better in

684
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,680
general.
Yeah, the so the first podcast

685
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:27,160
studio I had actually, I had
this massive Maple, I think they

686
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,600
call them cookies.
And it was humongous.

687
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,160
It was like, and it was kind of
shaped like an Oval, so at its

688
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,440
widest place it was probably
like 5 feet wide.

689
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,600
Oh my gosh.
It was humongous and I had

690
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,880
someone I can't remember the.
Lacquer or whatever, like yeah.

691
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,760
Like the goopy stuff.
I can't remember if it's

692
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,360
lacquer.
That's what I immediately wanted

693
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,280
to say.
I can't remember the the phrase

694
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,920
of it, but it's like a clear
surface over.

695
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,040
The oh is it almost kind of like
a like a resin, not resin.

696
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,080
Yeah, like a like a resin.
Absolutely.

697
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,280
Epoxy.
Epoxy.

698
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Yes.
That's the word.

699
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,800
I should know this because
actually that's you're going to

700
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,200
go buy epoxy after we appear so
nice.

701
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,320
Nice.
So yeah, I got an epoxy top on

702
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,680
it.
It had this this like crack in

703
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,680
it that filled with that was
filled with resin and then epoxy

704
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,360
over the top.
Was it the colored resin?

705
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,520
Yeah.
Oh, those are beautiful.

706
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,200
Like the river tables.
Oh, it's beautiful.

707
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,720
I love those.
Yeah, it was beautiful, but I

708
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,160
don't think the cookie was quite
dry enough before all that was

709
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:31,080
done and it ended up cracking.
Yeah, I did it in a room in my

710
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,840
house that I just put like a
mini split in on the wall and

711
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,160
that was the heat and air
conditioning.

712
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,440
It didn't have HVAC running to
it.

713
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,440
Okay, so I think the combination
of maybe not being quite dry

714
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,680
enough and the temperature
swings were wild.

715
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,000
So that room would be, you know,
20° in the winter.

716
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,480
And I think the freeze thaws,
like when I walked in one day

717
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,000
and there was this crack in the
epoxy and I was like, darn it.

718
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,520
Just the worst.
Yeah.

719
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,640
So I'm sure there's a ton that
go into it.

720
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,320
You mentioned hardwood in there.
So I'm, I, I have a particular

721
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,120
affinity for hardwood.
I make Maple syrup.

722
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,400
So I'm really connected to
Maple.

723
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:06,960
That's awesome, my stepdad does
that too.

724
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,360
Oh really?
Just for the family, but have.

725
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,880
You ever helped?
No, I want to though really bad.

726
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,920
It's super fun, it's a ton of
work, but it's another way to be

727
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,440
connected to the outdoors.
At a great time laughing one day

728
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,800
because he had like he came up
with a contrap.

729
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,120
I, I don't know what you want to
call it, but I went out in the

730
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,600
garage I was visiting and he has
this big pot and he had like egg

731
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,720
beaters or something in a drill
and he has a hanging from the

732
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,200
ceiling feeling rafters just
stirring this Maple syrup.

733
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,720
And he's that kind of guy.
He just like.

734
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,920
Just crafted up this this like
way of stirring it.

735
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,520
Yeah, he just rigs things up to
see fit and like, I wish I could

736
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,880
remember sometimes some of the
weird inventions he's come up

737
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,760
with over the years, but he
just, he makes it work somehow.

738
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,440
And he's like, I'm not standing
out there stirring that for that

739
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:52,360
long.
And I'm like, OK.

740
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaking of another life talent,
when people can just like, take

741
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,480
the stuff laying around to just
make cool things out of it.

742
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,720
Yeah, but actually along the
Maple syrup line, our sugar

743
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,880
shack where we make Maple syrup.
Sugar Shack.

744
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,960
I love it.
Yeah, yeah, My dad built our

745
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,639
sugar shack just out of like
stuff that was laying around his

746
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,920
house.
And I'm like, I just, I don't

747
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,280
have that talent.
You know, dead stuff blows my

748
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,880
mind too.
It's sort of like, yeah, you can

749
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,840
just take something and just,
you know, like you could take

750
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,639
junk and make something creative
out of it.

751
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,080
Like I've seen people who have
like, some of these really cute

752
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,360
garden shacks and like, yeah.
Or they'll like repurpose, like

753
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,719
metal garbage and make it into
things.

754
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,440
There's so many people who have,
like, that kind of mind where

755
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,560
they could see something.
I, I see it and I'm like, oh,

756
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,520
that needs to be thrown away.
Yeah.

757
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,840
Yeah.
But then, but then the the

758
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,960
hardwood like you can still do
it on.

759
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,800
What is that good for?
Like what is it Maple, oak, what

760
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,639
is that more traditional like
hardwood?

761
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,480
What can you make on that that
maybe is good for?

762
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,840
As far as like, just for what
kind of burning?

763
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,000
Yeah, yeah, 'cause you said
different ones do different

764
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,960
things, right?
So what?

765
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,600
What's good for hardwood?
I would say just something with

766
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,560
really clean lines, like if
you're going to have something

767
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,040
that doesn't have a lot of
darkness in the background, you

768
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,600
know, I mean in general, you're
going to have really good clean

769
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,280
lines with that versus like
basswood you're going to have,

770
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,160
this is actually maybe just my
ear, but I burn a really high

771
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,880
heat.
So which I feel like that's kind

772
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,520
of like what my style is in
general.

773
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,480
So when I'm burning on a softer
wood, like I have kind of scorch

774
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,000
lines around like, and then I
have to do some sanding and a

775
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,120
little bit more after work.
Like if I'm doing a hardwood

776
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,120
also like we have some of the
darker ones with more more

777
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,760
green.
I use a little bit of water down

778
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,760
acrylic paint for my highlights
so the cool part with that is it

779
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,000
just stands out and pops then.
That's interesting.

780
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,600
So there's some acrylic paint in
these pieces too.

781
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,080
Yep, absolutely.
Oh yeah, super cool.

782
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,200
That's what like you can see
some of the like the white

783
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,200
highlights in there and it's
just very, very subtle.

784
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,360
But it's more in the application
as what?

785
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,400
Oh, sure, like up on the horse's
mane, OK.

786
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,800
And then even if you look in the
background too, there's like in

787
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,040
the sky here, there's like the
highlight areas.

788
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,560
And it's just, I applied it a
little differently, obviously,

789
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,560
than I would have with with the
rest of the horse because I want

790
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,800
that to be more like, bam,
there's the horse.

791
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,160
And then those are really
subtle.

792
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,800
So all they did is water it down
and just kind of rub it in

793
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,520
instead of brush it.
That makes sense.

794
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,000
So like there's different ways
to apply it.

795
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,240
So I feel like some of the ways
that my grandma taught me

796
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,520
through the painting process is
really come in handy with us

797
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,960
too.
So and I thought about doing the

798
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,360
colored, like slight colored.
I don't, I did try doing like a

799
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,880
colored pyrography piece where I
painted too and it ended up

800
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,760
looking like some kind of dollar
store knock off, like it did not

801
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,680
work.
So I feel like I want to do

802
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,880
something but subtle.
So I feel like this little

803
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,720
journey is going to go on some
different spots too, you know?

804
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,000
Yeah, and he said it was like
2014 ish.

805
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,200
You said you started burning
wood.

806
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,640
That was my first time for a
couple months and then I quit.

807
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,640
That's the first time I ever
picked up a wood burner.

808
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,800
Okay, so I did it for a couple
months and I'm like, yeah, that

809
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,760
was fun.
Like, you know, let's go back to

810
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,400
painting again.
Cuz sure.

811
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,560
Yeah, I was getting frustrated
with it wouldn't stay hot or

812
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,160
whatever.
And then I wanted, I don't

813
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,400
remember what year it was that I
did my dad sign.

814
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,160
But then I'm just like, well,
the wood burners that you get

815
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,040
like on Amazon, usually they
don't have very high longevity.

816
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,680
So if you're going to do like a
big, big sign, it's going to

817
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,680
last just for that sign.
Like after that, you can just

818
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,440
call it garbage because it's not
going to heat up anymore.

819
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,280
So yeah, that's kind of what
happened.

820
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,600
I did the sign.
That little pyrography thing

821
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,240
didn't work.
So I threw it out and it worked,

822
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:22,320
but it barely worked at that
point.

823
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,000
I burned it out.
So then, you know, it wasn't

824
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,760
until the rummage sale one that
I actually the burn master,

825
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,320
Yeah.
That's so awesome.

826
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,280
So then the other angle that I
think would be super interesting

827
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,440
to talk about for a while.
You mentioned your grandma again

828
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,160
and just like people in your
lives, influence on your art.

829
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,480
I think that's another thing we
undersell at times is like the

830
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,680
the influence that others,
especially those that we care

831
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:53,360
about and the intersection of
that and what our passions

832
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,720
develop into.
I think about that all the time.

833
00:37:55,720 --> 00:38:01,440
I have a four year old so like I
think about how, you know, you

834
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,240
think about it by osmosis, but
like he's paying attention and

835
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,840
that's going to like mold the
things that he ends up

836
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,760
discovering passions and finding
things that he likes.

837
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,680
So in your instance, not
surprising to hear that several,

838
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,080
you know, your grandma teachers
throughout the years have had an

839
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,400
influence on that.
Is your grandma still around?

840
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,160
She's not.
She's not unfortunately, but I

841
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:30,040
was going to say that was
because I'm trying to think how

842
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,320
old.
I think it was in my 20s when

843
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,760
she passed away.
OK, so she didn't get to see her

844
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:34,920
wood burning work.
No.

845
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,640
And that's the bad part is I
wish, I wish that she was

846
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,000
around.
I'd love to hear her feedback

847
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,480
because I you know, I know she'd
give me the honest feedback,

848
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:42,120
too.
Yeah.

849
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,360
She, like, she's so honest about
things and just blunt.

850
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,960
That's just how she was.
Yeah.

851
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,080
And she'd surprised me sometimes
with some of the things she

852
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,200
said, like she taught me a
little bit about even like, art

853
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,240
theory and stuff.
Like she'd go through books.

854
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,840
And I remember being grossed out
by, like, some of the artistic

855
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,320
stuff in there.
I'm like, EW, like you'd see the

856
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,600
topless mermaids.
And she's like, she's like,

857
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,120
that's art, Sarah.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with

858
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,920
it.
The human body is beautiful.

859
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,680
So I always just thought that
was funny because she's very

860
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,520
Catholic, like, OK, you know,
very religious.

861
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,760
And then just to hear that come
out of her mouth, I was like.

862
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,440
Sounds like a fascinating woman.
She really was like, it was

863
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,080
just, you know, she on the
surface level when you see her,

864
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,080
she's just your regular cookie
baking grandma.

865
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,400
She collected apples, but she
had more to her.

866
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,280
So it was kind of funny because
I think she had a wild woman

867
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:27,600
under her.
Like, yeah.

868
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,440
And well, that's a that's a
theme, right?

869
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,720
Like you said, she was very
Catholic.

870
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:39,600
Sometimes I I think those two
ideas, like artists, I think

871
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,880
inherently are a bit more free
spirited.

872
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,040
Yes, and I think she was
underneath it all, but she kind

873
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,280
of had this.
You know, that's hard to say

874
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,760
because I, I, you know, I had
limited time with her versus,

875
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,120
you know, like my dad and my
aunts and uncles might have a

876
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,080
different view.
Yeah, and it it could be.

877
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,000
And, and at that's at her age
and when she grew up and stuff,

878
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,400
a lot of people that I've spoken
from with, from that generation,

879
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,640
like that is a generational
thing, you know, like where

880
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaking of influences and
passions, like, you know, maybe

881
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,680
the religious side of things was
a different.

882
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,160
Set of people influences in our
lives and then you discover this

883
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,840
other piece of yourself that can
come out too and you wonder what

884
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,880
her just thoughts were
throughout her life.

885
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,480
Just hearing a little bit about
her, she sounds fascinating to

886
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,240
be like, you know, navigating
the waters in between, OK, on

887
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,960
this side of the river is this
person.

888
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,640
On this side of the river is the
other person.

889
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,720
And it's awesome.
Well, and it's so funny, you

890
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:38,120
know, and going back to our
initial conversation, even about

891
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,880
like when we're talking about
road rage, yeah, and how people,

892
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,120
so people are so
multidimensional, you know what

893
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,400
I mean?
That's what actually floors me

894
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,600
is like people are just
multidimensional in general

895
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,000
where you can see, you know,
like, like there's service level

896
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,600
Brad walking around and people
get a certain impression of you,

897
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,280
but they don't really know
what's underneath.

898
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,520
That's where I go with the road
rage.

899
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,240
It's like, OK, so people may
have had a really bad day.

900
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,720
Something could have happened,
you know, you really don't know.

901
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,520
But it's so easy to react to
that kind of stuff too, where

902
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,320
it's sort of like, OK, this
person's driving like complete,

903
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,760
you know, complete jerk.
But we really don't know what

904
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,680
the situation is, you know?
100% yeah.

905
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,440
Empathy is important.
And then like, I think as

906
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,920
humans, our brains like to, we
like to categorize, right?

907
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,560
It's a natural.
So we like to put people in

908
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,360
these little boxes, but then
like the person doesn't fit in

909
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,160
that box, right?
That's not the entire thing.

910
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,120
That's a little piece of them,
yes, but there's way more to it.

911
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,880
It's like kind of funny having
that reminder of people, even

912
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,720
people that you grew up with.
And like, I only got a hint of

913
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,040
that other side of my grandma
when she would say those like

914
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,160
random things that were just
shocking to me.

915
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,160
This.
Is art Sarah?

916
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,000
She's just so funny on how she
approached it.

917
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,360
You know, I'm sitting here
thinking of her as just this

918
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,360
devout Catholic woman when she
had this whole other artistic

919
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,160
like, like you said, free
spirited side that I think was

920
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,840
kind of hidden in there that
sometimes came out.

921
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,560
So it's like you said, putting
people in boxes.

922
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,080
It's so easy to do, but I think
our brains want to take

923
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,600
shortcuts sometimes and that's
just the easiest way to do it.

924
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:08,000
100%, Yeah.
Well, I think let's talk about

925
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,840
feedback a little bit because
that's a really fun topic.

926
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,200
So that honest, authentic
feedback is really important in

927
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,800
life.
Like to have someone like, it's

928
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,920
OK to tell you like, you know,
this, this sucks.

929
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,120
Like we can do better than this.
And then it sounds like she gave

930
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:24,800
you all the tools to do that
too.

931
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,960
And those people in our lives
are few and far between.

932
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,240
So when you think about the
voices that come and impact

933
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:38,240
those passions will continue on
down that trail, the ones that

934
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:41,080
will authentically say, hey,
like this one missed the marker

935
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,520
a little bit or like even even
someone telling me like, you

936
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,000
know, hey, you're being a
Jackass right now.

937
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,040
Like, settle down.
Yeah, you.

938
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,160
Need that that brutal push of
honesty actually goes so far

939
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,080
like.
Yeah.

940
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,360
Do you think you'd be the artist
you are without it?

941
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,200
Absolutely not.
I needed that, definitely needed

942
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,480
that because of the thing too is
like initially when you're first

943
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,800
starting out and you're like,
you know, I mean, you're

944
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,320
starting to get surprised by,
you know, the gifts that you do

945
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,360
have.
It's I, I don't know, I mean, I

946
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,000
think everybody should have a
start, be able to strive to like

947
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,320
push to get better at things, no
matter how good you are.

948
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,880
But at the same time, seeing
that when you're younger, it's

949
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,560
so easy to be kind of arrogant
about it when you're younger and

950
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,840
think you don't have to change.
So I hear I am like a 10 year

951
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,600
old.
My grandma's just like you could

952
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,920
do much better.
And I'm just like, thanks,

953
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,120
grandma.
But now I've met people too, You

954
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,000
know, it's kind of funny over
the years too.

955
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,240
I have a a friend that I had in
high school and her mom and I

956
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:35,720
became friends because she so
she just retired and she

957
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:38,320
realized she's like this
phenomenal painter and she has a

958
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,320
great eye and I can get a really
good dose of brutal honesty from

959
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,120
her.
And I love that because actually

960
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,360
I did a guitar for somebody and
I put it on social media and she

961
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,600
calls me up and she's like,
you're missing the spot here.

962
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,960
I left a spot for the bridge,
like for the actual saddle or

963
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,920
whatever, the bridge where
everything connects.

964
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,080
And, you know, I just don't burn
there just because what's the

965
00:43:59,080 --> 00:43:59,720
point?
Yeah.

966
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,560
So she's like, you missed a huge
spot.

967
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,040
You need to fix that.
Like, it looks, she's like, it

968
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,880
looks great everywhere else, but
that's just, that's not right.

969
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,760
And I'm like, oh, that's a spot
for the bridge.

970
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,280
But yeah, like that fact that
she said that meant the world to

971
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,160
me because like I, I need that
in a lot of cases, but she'll

972
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,040
send me things too and have me
critique them.

973
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,320
And that we know we have that
relationship where you could be

974
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,040
super honest with each other and
we can pick our our work apart

975
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,840
and be OK with it.
Like we're not offended.

976
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,920
So, you know, and sometimes I
think it depends on the person,

977
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,960
like if they're like always so
positive and then they're just

978
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,880
like, yeah, you need to fix
that.

979
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,840
I'm just like what happened?
Yeah, it's not really saying

980
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,040
like this sucks.
It's a, you know, saying it in

981
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,200
the right way.
Yeah, like if my mom, my mom's

982
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,080
always like perpetuated, she's
like one of those positive

983
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,640
people that I know.
So it's so funny.

984
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,560
And she's like, if if I sent her
something and she told me that

985
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,400
there's something wrong with it
or look bad, I would be shocked.

986
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,640
Like, I don't know how I would
be appreciative, but I'd be

987
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,160
really surprised, you know?
Yeah.

988
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,880
Yeah, it's so important.
So like my, you know, the normal

989
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,480
job is being a teacher and like
that's such an important part

990
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,040
about that of like.
And that's to be hard too,

991
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,880
though, like I think giving that
constructive feedback, or in

992
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,840
that case, like that's part of
teaching.

993
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,840
So it has to be, yeah.
I'm sure you get used to it

994
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,880
though, right?
It is No, you're right.

995
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:23,000
It's, I mean, it is a fine line.
You have to balance like I

996
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,960
always try to pick out the good
pieces first.

997
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,480
Like you can find the gift in
anything.

998
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,360
Like if someone puts time into
making something, there's going

999
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,160
to be something in there that
you can say, hey, this is really

1000
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,960
good.
Like this is what we can build

1001
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,120
on.
And then it's the areas of

1002
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,080
growth like this could be
better.

1003
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,840
Can we think about this a
different way?

1004
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:47,040
And it's certainly a balancing
act, though, because there is

1005
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:52,920
value in talking about things
that are poorly done or bad

1006
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,400
because that's where growth
happens.

1007
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,640
And the what's what's usually on
my mind when I am in that zone

1008
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,240
or doing that type of work is
just maintaining the motivation.

1009
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,880
Because there's a way that your
grandma could have said it at 10

1010
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,040
years old that would have made
you stop.

1011
00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:11,400
Like there's a way that she
could have said it and delivered

1012
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,520
the message that would have
said, OK, and this maybe this

1013
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,920
isn't for me and I'm off the
way.

1014
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,320
Even if it wasn't like from a
place of animosity or anything

1015
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,960
like that, it was just like
maybe 2 blunt or something could

1016
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,280
have stopped you.
And that's something I think

1017
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,720
about because, I mean, you know,
we all know the percentage of

1018
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:31,720
people that start college and
then graduate in the disparity

1019
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:34,800
between the two things.
And one of the reasons is

1020
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,600
definitely that sometimes if you
don't get the right kind of

1021
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,000
constructive growth field
feedback, it can push you in a

1022
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,280
different direction.
So that's constantly on my mind

1023
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:49,640
balancing that with directing
and supporting growth.

1024
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,640
Yeah, I think you're on to
something with that because you

1025
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,840
always hear about the what is it
the managerial context where

1026
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,320
they say like, say something
positive, have the meat of the

1027
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,240
situation, like the criticism
between then end it with

1028
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:03,600
something positive.
And I've always heard that.

1029
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,880
So I I like even with, you know,
I mean other friends who are

1030
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,160
just like, hey, how does this
look?

1031
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,360
If there's something that
definitely needs to be fixed,

1032
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,840
I'll be like, I love this part.
You know, I'll start it with I

1033
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,760
love most about it.
And then, you know, put what I'd

1034
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,120
probably change maybe, you know,
if it were if it were my style.

1035
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,320
It's The thing is everybody's so
different.

1036
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,440
So you can't just be like, you
know, I can't tell him to make

1037
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,280
it into my art.
And then, you know, just throw

1038
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,080
the other positive stuff in
there too.

1039
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,520
And what you're saying about the
disparity too, between like

1040
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,560
college kids and graduation.
So my daughter's in college

1041
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,040
currently and I know she there's
so many days she's just like, I

1042
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,200
just want to quit because when
you know, and like obviously I

1043
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,040
think some of the teachers that
she has in her learning style

1044
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,800
clash and that's the hard part
because she doesn't get any

1045
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,160
positive feedback from certain
people too.

1046
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,560
So it's hard.
You know, they start thinking

1047
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,000
they're not cut out for it and
they have no talent with it when

1048
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,920
in fact they do because all that
you're hearing is a negative so.

1049
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,400
Super important.
It's it's super important.

1050
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:07,080
And it's it's a lot like art
where it's it's not like it can

1051
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,400
be a natural skill to a certain
point, but it's something you

1052
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,200
have to work on and you have to
be cognizant of.

1053
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,440
And yeah, it sounds like Grandma
probably did that.

1054
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,760
That's good.
She did, and she was positive,

1055
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,400
too.
Like if there's something she

1056
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,760
liked, she was always very
proud, you know?

1057
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,560
And that's The funny thing, like
just I think I don't even you

1058
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,560
know, looking back as a kid, I
don't know if that was that

1059
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,560
good, but she made me feel that
way, you know, and the but then

1060
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,720
she would also throw the whole
you can do better.

1061
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:35,520
And I remember the piece too
that I laugh about is because I

1062
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,120
remember going through some of
the art books and they had like

1063
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,840
some of the impressionistic,
like, you know, like Van Gogh,

1064
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,680
like just very, very like bold
kind of lines and things like

1065
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,680
that.
So I tried to do a dog in that

1066
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,080
style and it was not my style,
put it that way, like it was

1067
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,960
with oil pastels and it was all
smeared up and it looked like

1068
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,920
crap.
But you know, at first at the

1069
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,560
and I'm, I'm just like, well, if
these people like their arts,

1070
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,320
flying like this could fly,
right?

1071
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,840
So Grandma's just like, no,
that's not you.

1072
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,760
Again the value.
Yeah, but that's the thing too,

1073
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,360
is like, you know, you kind of
wonder if that part was like

1074
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,240
shut down.
And I realized I'm like, OK, so

1075
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:12,880
I am better at different styles
of art.

1076
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,120
Just because I'm not good at
that doesn't mean that I'm bad.

1077
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,560
So, you know, having that other
positive feedback definitely

1078
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,360
kept that passion, you know,
fire, no pun intended.

1079
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,360
I'd like it though and I so we
can probably continue down that

1080
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,240
path a little bit of like
feedback styles and

1081
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:34,280
communication styles because
you're like day-to-day work is

1082
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,440
in business development, right?
Yeah, correct.

1083
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,720
So that's probably like you're,
you're constantly trying to have

1084
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:44,920
a conversation about how you can
help solve someone's problem and

1085
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,080
identify an issue that you may
be able to help solve.

1086
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:54,160
And I think like there's some
skill in that that translates or

1087
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,000
cuts across because like you've
being, if you're in sales,

1088
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,520
you've probably been in sales
trainings your entire career.

1089
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,320
Different things of we need to
mirror at this, this instance

1090
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,000
and we need to do all of that
stuff.

1091
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,680
Sometimes it gets fluffy,
sometimes there's crossover.

1092
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,720
Like what have you brought any
of that into?

1093
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,560
Like maybe critiquing art with
your friend or like even

1094
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,640
critiquing your own art?
Like how do those two worlds

1095
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,360
collide?
OK, this is where it gets really

1096
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,800
funny too is because like so
working in business development,

1097
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,480
I try to be actually I my sales
tactic is very different than

1098
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,120
anybody's I think.
I'm super.

1099
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,360
Excited Well, I, I just I
operate by honesty and you know,

1100
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:35,760
we're just talking about this
yesterday.

1101
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,480
So if you go on Amazon and I
don't know about most people, I,

1102
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,120
I know what gets me to buy.
So there's so much fluff online

1103
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,400
these days and people can
recognize a phony salesperson

1104
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,160
from a mile away.
And I feel like being honest and

1105
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,800
saying the pros and cons and can
I solve your problem?

1106
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,760
You know what I mean?
Like, can I genuinely solve your

1107
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,400
problem instead of having to the
problem is too is I have to deal

1108
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,040
with the customers after the
fact.

1109
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,560
So if you know, they decide
they're going to go with us and

1110
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,360
then all of a sudden they have
nothing but problems.

1111
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,200
And I was, you know, bending the
truth a little bit.

1112
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,240
They're not going to respect
that.

1113
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:11,400
And I feel like I would be the
same way.

1114
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,080
So if I'm going to go on Amazon
and buy something and I see all

1115
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,360
this fluff in the advertisement
half the time, like if you're

1116
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,320
reading the description and
they're talking it up so much,

1117
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,080
it's like, yeah, yeah, every
company says that.

1118
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,800
So I go to the reviews.
Like, I want to know, what do

1119
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,600
people?
What do real people say?

1120
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:26,920
So I try to be as real with
people as I possibly can.

1121
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,080
And then that translates into
art, too.

1122
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,320
Like, I want to be real.
I don't want to put a bunch of

1123
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,360
fluff on things either, you
know?

1124
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,200
So I feel like transparency is
really important and there's not

1125
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,280
enough of it anymore.
Absolutely builds relationships,

1126
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,520
builds trust.
And then someone who trusts you

1127
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:47,080
and knows you is more apt to not
only see that you have the

1128
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,080
solution, but trust your
solution, Yes.

1129
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,520
And say OK, three years down the
road if they need it again.

1130
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,160
You're Sarah, right?
You know, sold it, right.

1131
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,040
Yeah.
The, the era of the, the era of

1132
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:06,360
the, you know, the used car
salesman, that stigma is in the

1133
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,040
past.
And I think part of that is the

1134
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,640
information we have access to.
We talked about that earlier.

1135
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,560
Like there's no wool being
pulled over many people's eyes.

1136
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,120
Interestingly enough, Amazon
reviews have changed a little

1137
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:18,840
bit over the years.
Have you noticed that I I've

1138
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,600
become less reliant on them
because I think they're how

1139
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,800
they've incentivized reviews?
Yes, actually that's funny too

1140
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,600
that you should say that because
I brought that up yesterday.

1141
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:28,240
Too.
Did you really?

1142
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,720
Yeah, except those are like
Facebook sponsored ads.

1143
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:33,960
So all of a sudden you look and
I know I bought a supplement I

1144
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,680
think last year and I'm like,
oh, these comments are saying

1145
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,480
that these people are saying and
they're having success with it,

1146
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,760
it's working.
So I, I purchased a supplement.

1147
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,960
I'm like, well, this is crap.
It's not doing really anything

1148
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,920
for me.
So of course it popped up later

1149
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,080
and I looked at those, some of
the same comments, and actually

1150
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,640
maybe they weren't the same
comments, but there's similar

1151
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,600
comments where people are like,
oh, this is a dream.

1152
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,560
It works great.
So I click on the profiles and

1153
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,080
they're fake profiles.
See, it's almost gotten to the

1154
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,880
point where it's like, you have
to be really smart and really

1155
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,080
discerning on what you're
actually reading.

1156
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,760
Like is is this a real, this is
a real review?

1157
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,520
But in the grand scheme of
things, yeah, I would trust if a

1158
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,000
friend told me it worked, then I
would just be more apt to buy

1159
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,520
it, you know, or a few friends
like then, you know, they had a

1160
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,680
good experience.
But even still, anytime you buy

1161
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,640
something, it's going to be a
risk, you know, A. 100% yeah.

1162
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,200
And I think part of what maybe
started open up my eyes so that

1163
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,320
I had a couple students that
were Amazon sellers.

1164
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:31,200
And I know a couple other people
who have sold on Amazon from,

1165
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,120
you know, find a manufacturer
overseas, work with them to

1166
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,280
develop this product, bring it
to Amazon.

1167
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:43,000
And it's funny because like, I
also know an author who put some

1168
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:49,560
books on Amazon and in order to
really get any traction, you

1169
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,280
have to get those reviews
pouring in.

1170
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,960
So like I've had people ask me
like, not only can you, can you

1171
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,160
leave a review?
But like one person I remember

1172
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,800
vividly saying like, even if you
don't buy it, just leave a

1173
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,320
review.
And it didn't sit fantastically

1174
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:07,760
with me.
Yeah, I can imagine.

1175
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,080
And then secondarily, I started
thinking, OK, now if someone

1176
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,680
devotes their career to this, if
this is how they're going to

1177
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,240
make money and they're in
another country or whatever,

1178
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:24,600
wherever they are or in America,
wherever really are there people

1179
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:29,520
who have built like a network of
like 102 hundred of these people

1180
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,640
that say, OK, I'm going to put
this product in Amazon.

1181
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,440
I need this trajectory to take
off right away.

1182
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,400
I'm going to drop it this day.
You leave your reviews.

1183
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,080
Or where they almost have this
right, there's a ring of people.

1184
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:46,680
Who are Yeah, I I don't know if
that's the case, that's purely

1185
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:51,000
conjecture, but I know that I've
bought stuff with 4 1/2 stars on

1186
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,600
Amazon that was all glowing
reviews top to bottom.

1187
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,320
And I get it in a piece of shit,
yes.

1188
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,360
Absolutely.
It kind of takes you back to the

1189
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,760
do you remember the app wish?
Yes, like.

1190
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,600
Never used it but yeah.
I bought like, that's the thing

1191
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,400
too, is like it's been pretty
rare that I bought something

1192
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,800
that I'm like, OK, I could see
where maybe there is like a

1193
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,480
little discrepancy in like the
quality versus how it's

1194
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,880
portrayed.
But there's some things that I'm

1195
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,520
just like, what in the hell?
Like I bought when my niece was

1196
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,040
born.
This is a long time ago because

1197
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,520
she's she's, you know, like a
teenager now.

1198
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,240
But I remember buying this
thing, it was like a baby, like

1199
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:26,600
a swaddler and it was furry and
it was really cute.

1200
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,400
And I'm just like, oh, this is
adorable.

1201
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,600
And like it looked like it had
decent reviews.

1202
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,080
And this is back then already.
And I get it.

1203
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,960
I get it in the mail.
It is literally like, I don't

1204
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,080
know what kind of baby they
thought was going to fit in this

1205
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,560
thing.
Like if it was a doll, it was

1206
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,440
literally like I you could put
like a newborn puppy in there.

1207
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,360
Maybe it's like.
Like the 3 LB baby?

1208
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,280
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm just like, well, there

1209
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,080
goes my baby gift, like one of
them, you know, like, yeah, it

1210
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,320
was, but it was cheap.
Like it's not like I paid a lot

1211
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,480
for it.
But yeah, I just think about the

1212
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,360
quality on some of that stuff.
Like you can expect that 90% of

1213
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,400
what you get, it's going to be
complete trash.

1214
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,040
Yeah.
And it was, but that's OK.

1215
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,040
So I think you live and learn.
But I think you're really on to

1216
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:11,400
something like that's I've had a
couple people that maybe weren't

1217
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,840
like so comfortable, like it's a
little nerve wracking to get

1218
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,320
behind a mic.
You start talking and they're

1219
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,120
like, well, what if I flub up a
word or can you cut it out and

1220
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,240
edit and stuff?
I was like, I can, but I almost

1221
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:24,560
never do.
Because like part of my

1222
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,240
intention with the podcast is to
authentically share the stories

1223
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,320
of cool people.
Authentic life is what people

1224
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,960
like yearn for and strive for.
So we're talking about social

1225
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:38,480
media success earlier.
Just as easily as people can see

1226
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,160
through that sales tactic of
like being maybe a little bit

1227
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,840
too salesy or a little bit too
perfect about what your stuff

1228
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,120
is, people can see that of
social media content to look at

1229
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,480
the people that do really well.
It's the people who are just

1230
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,840
like, unapologetically
themselves.

1231
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,560
Yes, like they get on there and
I, I was kind of laughed because

1232
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,840
I see some of these people in
lives and like I'm part of an

1233
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,120
agency.
So there's an eclectic amount,

1234
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:02,600
you know what I mean?
Like just different groups of

1235
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,320
people that are that are in part
of this agency.

1236
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,440
And you can see that like
manages your social presence or

1237
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,400
your art or.
Just my live streams.

1238
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,720
So I do live streams on TikTok
as well, although I've taken

1239
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:14,240
kind of a 2 month hiatus from
it.

1240
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:16,440
I was going to say I haven't
seen one, but I just found you

1241
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,280
about a month.
Ago and actually like right

1242
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,200
around Christmas, I started
taking one just to get caught up

1243
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,640
in Christmas orders and now I'm
just like, OK, horse fair is

1244
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,480
coming up.
I have to get going on that.

1245
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,480
So I know I, you know, they're
phenomenal because I know that

1246
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,680
I'm supposed to be 15 hours per
month is a minimum.

1247
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,920
I have not done that and they
have not fired me.

1248
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,160
But there's such an eclectic,
you know, group of people on

1249
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,160
there and there's some people
there, you know, getting up

1250
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:41,480
first thing in the morning these
like, you know, I'm sure they're

1251
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,600
just like stay at home moms or
whatever, but they're so real

1252
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,400
and so authentic, like, you
know, they have their mascara

1253
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,760
smeared on their face and they
have like their their top bun

1254
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,480
and they're doing great.
They're killing it.

1255
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,040
You know, they're a lot of them
are doing like TikTok shop and

1256
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,200
stuff like that, but it's
because people crave to see the

1257
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,640
authenticity.
Yeah, it's real life.

1258
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:03,160
It's real life.
I have actually, a woman who

1259
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:07,120
used to cut my hair is Oneida,
and she makes like these.

1260
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,760
She does this native bead work.
Oh.

1261
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,200
My gosh, that's so cool.
She does that on TikTok live

1262
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:16,320
same vibe camera down she's got
a couple like her sister and I

1263
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,080
think another friend of hers and
they just like talk shop.

1264
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,840
Well, they're beading and they
do super well with it.

1265
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,200
Like you'll.
Help me your username.

1266
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:25,800
I love that kind of stuff.
I will, yeah.

1267
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,040
She's awesome.
So does that ever lead?

1268
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,400
Like do you connect it like
that?

1269
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,720
So like when she's beating,
she'll like the pieces will be

1270
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,000
sold before the live's done.
Do you do that in the live?

1271
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,200
Like some cases.
So people will be like, I want

1272
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,480
this one and they'll buy it.
Yeah, actually it was really

1273
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,600
weird situation because it
doesn't always happen like I'll

1274
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,120
be working on something and I
gain the most traction going

1275
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,040
live than I have any other
social media.

1276
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,520
Like you know, it's like it was
saying TikTok.

1277
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,240
That's what kind of blew me up
in TikTok before TikTok, barely

1278
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,440
I had any traction at all And
yeah, I'll have to because I I

1279
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:02,920
had this one wolf.
It's really funny.

1280
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,640
It was like a had three wolves
on it was that I'm not sure if

1281
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,120
that was a three wolf one or I
had one wolf.

1282
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,160
I can't remember your.
Wolf pieces are beautiful, by

1283
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,400
the way.
Those are some of my favorites

1284
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:12,920
that I saw on your profile.
They're amazing.

1285
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,840
Wolves are some of my favorites.
OK, I have Huskies so it kind of

1286
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,320
translates like I call them my
house wolves.

1287
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,800
Nice.
But yeah, it was a wolf piece

1288
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:22,640
and it sat for a long time.
I didn't sell it.

1289
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:24,960
And I'm like, nobody's buying
this.

1290
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,200
Like I was getting really kind
of, you know, like I kind of

1291
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,600
lost steam on trying to sell it.
And it was sitting in the

1292
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,040
background in my picture, like
when I was working on something

1293
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,080
else.
And all of a sudden I had one

1294
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,520
guy who wanted to purchase it
and he was, you know, saying all

1295
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:41,680
put some money down on it.
And I said, yeah, you know,

1296
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,520
here's like the information.
A lot of times I'll usually just

1297
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,640
sell it on my website.
But if people want to do partial

1298
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:48,440
payments, they'll do like Venmo
or something.

1299
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:50,160
So I'm like, well, here's the
information.

1300
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:51,800
And I didn't receive anything
from him.

1301
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,160
And this got really awkward,
actually.

1302
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,920
So then I was on live again and
it was still in the background

1303
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,960
and all of a sudden another guy
wanted it and he really wanted

1304
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:01,920
it.
And the other guy came on and he

1305
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,120
said I'm going to go pay for it
right now.

1306
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,000
And the other guy beat him to it
on my website.

1307
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,160
And I was just like, I can't
believe that just happened.

1308
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,120
Like I feel kind of bad but.
Well, people fighting over your

1309
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,920
art though, that's awesome.
That was really cool.

1310
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,560
I don't know what happened if it
wasn't for live, but I have had

1311
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:17,880
that happen a few times too
where it's like other pieces

1312
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,480
where usually it's commissions
that roll in from that.

1313
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:22,320
Like people want their own
custom work.

1314
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,240
Sure.
And you know, it's mostly

1315
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,400
inquiries.
You know, I would say you get a

1316
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,960
ton of inquiries and maybe 25%
of those to turn into sales.

1317
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,720
But it's, you know, it's fun.
It's it's fun, it's interesting.

1318
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,560
It gets you more people who are
it's planting seeds really is

1319
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,040
what it is.
Yeah, yeah, 100%.

1320
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,280
Plenty of.
I'm sure there's plenty of tire

1321
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,400
kickers who think you were going
to like make something like this

1322
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,560
for 50 bucks or something.
It's like she was just talking

1323
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,160
about that, too.
I'm like, I'm not Hobby Lobby.

1324
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,960
Like, yeah.
Yeah, the and and nor should you

1325
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:56,960
be, you know, like the the time
and effort and skill past even

1326
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:01,480
doing the piece, but getting to
the point where you can make a

1327
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,680
piece of this quality, like
that's all value.

1328
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:09,960
And that's the constant tug of
war in an artist's life, right?

1329
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:16,680
People undervalue your stuff.
And then like you nicely try to

1330
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,040
say like do you you just want to
say, you know how much goes

1331
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:21,560
into?
This right, but you know, it's

1332
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,840
kind of funny too, because you
get such a mixture of people

1333
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,000
like I as many of those people
you get, you also get the people

1334
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,360
who were like when I was working
on that 9 foot slab and I was

1335
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,280
saying the price that I was
asking for and they're just

1336
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,640
like, they're like, you should
charge more or you get people

1337
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:36,800
who are like, that's way too
much.

1338
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,160
So, you know, people have a
different perception all across

1339
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,800
the board and I, I imagine that
there's different things that go

1340
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,960
into it like where they're
located in the United States or

1341
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,680
where whatever country, like
obviously the cost of living is

1342
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:47,720
going to be different
everywhere.

1343
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,960
But I know I've looked at other
pyrographers that I've looked up

1344
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,000
to like love their work and for
small pieces, they're charging

1345
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,440
like 5 grand.
So I look at that and I'm like,

1346
01:01:56,440 --> 01:02:00,120
gosh, you know, it's so weird in
the art world and you can slap a

1347
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,080
price tag on anything because
it's handmade.

1348
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,080
Somebody out there might pay it.
You know, it's just that's what

1349
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,080
blows my if you, I don't know if
you heard about the guy who duct

1350
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,600
taped a banana to the wall, He
sold it for like a couple of

1351
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,240
million or whatever, Like, yeah,
So it's just if it if it has art

1352
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,280
label on it and it's actually
authentic art, I don't see the

1353
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:20,400
banana.
I don't know.

1354
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,360
That's a challenge right there.
He's witty, but.

1355
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:26,840
Yeah, yeah, I get that.
Have you been to the Art Museum

1356
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,040
in Milwaukee?
Years ago, actually, I think

1357
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,720
when I was going to school to be
an art teacher and I was

1358
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:32,880
pregnant with my daughter, I
went.

1359
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,600
But yeah, it was really cool
experience, except I was sick as

1360
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,120
a dog that day.
OK, sometimes I get that feeling

1361
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,080
going through a place like that
of like, I wonder if it's just

1362
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:48,560
me who doesn't get some of the
stuff or like what the entire

1363
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,320
picture is because like the the
banana on the wall is a good

1364
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,920
example.
Like it doesn't make any sense.

1365
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:55,600
You know, like.
No, but he calls it the comedian

1366
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:57,920
because he's being funny.
And I think he's poking fun at

1367
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,800
people who do that stuff
regularly where they do these

1368
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,080
weird artist installations.
Do you know what I mean?

1369
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,640
Like they do the strangest
installations and it's called

1370
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,040
art and it sells for millions of
dollars.

1371
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,040
It's like how how So I think
he's poking fun at that in his

1372
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:12,880
own way.
And he's, you know, it's, it's

1373
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,360
kind of a, I don't know what
kind of effect you want to say

1374
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,400
because he's doing the same
thing, making fun of it, but.

1375
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,400
You're right.
Yeah, but in jest.

1376
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,400
Yeah.
And so that actually brings up

1377
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,440
one in my mind that I saw on
social media.

1378
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:31,680
It was like this guy had like
these buckets of sand stacked up

1379
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,040
and the entire thing, there was
this group of maybe like 50

1380
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,920
people around watching this art
happen and he had these buckets

1381
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,720
of stand in.
The art was to push the buckets

1382
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:44,640
of sand over and then however it
landed and everybody just

1383
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:46,200
clapped and was having a good
time.

1384
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:49,800
I'm like, man, I could do that
right now. 100% it's like the

1385
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,560
age-old question.
I mean you're not even adding

1386
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,240
color to the sand.
Like come on, like it's the

1387
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,440
age-old question of like what is
considered art, you know, and

1388
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,800
that's why I think you get to
the point where people take the

1389
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,760
fact that it's expression way to
another level.

1390
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,240
On a level.
It's like kind of like anybody

1391
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,920
could do that.
You know, I, and I question that

1392
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,600
too, is being into art.
But there are artists out there

1393
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,760
too where they have like, like
you're talking about the Art

1394
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,880
Museum and the things that have
so much symbolism in them, you

1395
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,240
know, and it's kind of weird
because like you have to have

1396
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:24,200
this like almost knowledge of
how you know, the symbolism

1397
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,040
behind everything to be able to
get the piece, you know, unless

1398
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:28,600
they actually have a description
of it.

1399
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:30,960
And I've tried to kind of go
down that road with my paintings

1400
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,760
a little bit with symbolism and
stuff like that.

1401
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,680
But in the grand scheme of
things, I feel like I'm way more

1402
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:37,880
simple than that.
Like I'm just, that's not really

1403
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:38,920
me.
Like maybe there's a little

1404
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,440
symbolism there, but not like
anything crazy where you're

1405
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,960
going to have something that's
like surrealist art where

1406
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,720
there's like dreamlike, like
something in a dream where you

1407
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,080
about like Alf being in the
corner and you don't even like

1408
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,440
just something just way out
there.

1409
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:58,680
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And I think that's probably

1410
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,320
like, of course that's not black
and white or cut and dry either.

1411
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,240
It's and that's the probably
what I wonder what I'm missing

1412
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,560
because like an art like yours
is aesthetically beautiful.

1413
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:14,520
You can see it, you can know
it's there and amazed by it when

1414
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,880
you have to like fill in the
rest of the story is where it's

1415
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,840
that's where the Gray area comes
as like do I not get the story?

1416
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:26,040
Like do I not get the story of
the bucket or like what is the

1417
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,040
meaning?
Or if you have to explain it too

1418
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:29,520
much?
I think that would be hard as an

1419
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,320
artist.
That is the hard part.

1420
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:32,800
OK.
So I wonder that too, though,

1421
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,160
because as as an artist, like I
like making things aesthetically

1422
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:37,800
beautiful.
And you could still take it from

1423
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,320
your soul and just put it out
there.

1424
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,560
You know what I mean?
Like you can take your feelings

1425
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,920
and put them on there.
Like I think every now and then

1426
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,120
I get like, I call it a craving
to pay or to burn something

1427
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,320
specific.
And I have a certain style that

1428
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,320
I want it to be.
And you know, it kind of goes

1429
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,800
with my mood.
So and it doesn't always go with

1430
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,280
my mood at that point in time.
Like sometimes it's a fleeting

1431
01:05:57,720 --> 01:05:59,360
and I'm like, that would be
beautiful, though.

1432
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,520
You get it from that emotion at
that point in time that you get

1433
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:02,360
that thought.
Yep.

1434
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,440
Now when it comes to pushing
buckets of sand and stuff like

1435
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,040
that, I wish as an artist I
understood it.

1436
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,840
I don't at all.
I feel like maybe that there's

1437
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,080
some kind of, I don't know, I
feel like the fact that there's

1438
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,960
all these people sitting around
cheering, it's almost like

1439
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:19,040
they're rebels, you know what I
mean?

1440
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:20,120
Like they're rebels of the art
world.

1441
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,360
Just because people don't
understand it, they like it more

1442
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,360
like, yeah, does it make sense?
Right.

1443
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,640
Maybe that's the mystique.
Maybe the mystique isn't being

1444
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,840
not immediately recognizable.
What it?

1445
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:32,720
Means right.
I kind of laugh about it.

1446
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,520
It's like they're all cheering
and the guy next to them.

1447
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:35,560
Do you know what we're cheering
about?

1448
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,560
No.
You know, Yeah.

1449
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:46,560
Yeah, it's it's so cool though.
So actually we can dive a little

1450
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:50,000
bit deeper into that because I
think, I think I saw this on

1451
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:54,360
your website, forgive me if I'm
messing this up, but a core like

1452
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,760
piece of what you would call
your mission or whatever you

1453
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,000
have something on your website
about.

1454
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,600
Like you want the pieces to tell
a story though, right?

1455
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,200
Like isn't there something about
storytelling central to your

1456
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:03,440
art?
A.

1457
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,440
Little bit a little bit like I
feel like, I feel like my life

1458
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,640
kind of turns into the story
where it's like obviously the

1459
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,520
horses and I'm into horses and
then that's kind of been the

1460
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,400
story in itself.
But realistically, I want it to

1461
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,840
be like a viewer can look at it
and create a story in their own

1462
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,800
head about what this is like.
Like I don't put usually

1463
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,200
anything specific about what
this picture is about.

1464
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,880
I want people to interpret it as
their own story.

1465
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,840
You know, I feel like that's
where art becomes personal to

1466
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,000
somebody because I can put what,
you know, like a core emotion

1467
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,040
that I'm feeling and try to
convey it onto the wood itself.

1468
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,080
But when people are looking at
it, they can create that story.

1469
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,560
I think it's funny because
sometimes I'll actually look at

1470
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,440
my friends, you know, the lady
who retired who does the

1471
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,120
beautiful paintings.
I'll look at her stuff and I'll

1472
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,160
see my own story on, you know,
just kind of how I think things

1473
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:50,600
played out.
Like she had this like sheep in

1474
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,240
a barn.
And it's so simple and it's so

1475
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,960
beautiful, but you kind of get
your own interpretation by

1476
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:57,600
looking at it on what is going
on.

1477
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,040
You know what I mean?
Absolutely, yeah.

1478
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,480
It's like the best songwriting,
the the best songwriting.

1479
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,680
The the story is all up to the
perceiver.

1480
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,800
Yes, 100.
Percent.

1481
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:09,240
Like some of the.
Yeah, like, I've.

1482
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,080
I love the songs that tell a
story.

1483
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,280
I really, really do.
But the ones where they kind of

1484
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,800
leave it a little bit blank that
you can kind of fill it in.

1485
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:18,680
It's just like, I think I know
what's going on here, but I

1486
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,960
can't help it.
I, I impulsively Google it right

1487
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,000
away to find out what it was
actually about because I need to

1488
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,160
know, like, what way actually,
you know, I know what I think

1489
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,479
it's about, but what do other
people perceive this as?

1490
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,439
And what did the songwriter
actually intend for this to be

1491
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,640
about?
And sometimes it's kind of cool

1492
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,359
if they just kind of left it
open and it is up to

1493
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:38,840
interpretation.
Yeah, I've been a frequent

1494
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:43,200
visitor to, I think it's song
meanings.net or something like

1495
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:44,520
that.
There's a cool website where

1496
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,479
like, several times throughout
my life I've googled like, what

1497
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,479
does this song mean or whatever,
and brings me there.

1498
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,080
And it's just, you know, it's
basically like a Reddit forum,

1499
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,279
but for the meanings of songs
that people think that they are.

1500
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:57,800
And it's fascinating.
Yeah.

1501
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:00,920
It's really fun.
And like, I'm a lyric person.

1502
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,200
That's why I listen to music.
I listen to music for the words

1503
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:04,279
and.
Yes, me too.

1504
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:07,520
I love, love words, just like
lyrics and they're they're

1505
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,120
painting with with music, like
they're painting with words is

1506
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:12,800
what I'm trying to say.
Like 100%.

1507
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,000
It takes so much to be able to
put that down.

1508
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,000
Do you write songs too?
I have.

1509
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,439
Yeah, I have.
I used to write more than I do

1510
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:20,520
now.
It's funny you bring that up.

1511
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:23,120
I've been thinking about doing
it again.

1512
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:28,279
I haven't for quite some time.
It's, it's just one of those

1513
01:09:28,279 --> 01:09:30,520
things, I'm a, I'm a layman on
the guitar.

1514
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,760
Like I can play guitar to
somebody who doesn't play

1515
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,880
guitar, they're like, yeah, he
can definitely play guitar.

1516
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:39,479
But as an artist, like, you know
how this feels like you see

1517
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,359
people who can do it better than
you.

1518
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,160
And I'm like, wow.
It's wild.

1519
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:45,840
And we're talking about Jimi
Hendrix on the way in.

1520
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:49,240
Like I'm not doing that.
Yeah, but like that's the thing

1521
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:54,000
too is like I think sometimes,
you know, that can make you grow

1522
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,200
and it can make, it can hinder
you at the same time if you're

1523
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:57,680
comparing yourself like when
you're.

1524
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,040
Because I was just talking about
this the other day too.

1525
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,520
Like some of these people that I
just like idolize and wood

1526
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,640
burning, the ones who charge
like 5 grand for the little

1527
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,120
pieces, they do such beautiful
detail work.

1528
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,600
But at the same time, I know
it's not my style and I try to

1529
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:14,000
cram myself to be that style
sometimes and it doesn't work

1530
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,960
out.
So like, you still have to give

1531
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,560
yourself the freedom to be able
to have, you know what I mean?

1532
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,400
To be able to grow on your own
in your own style.

1533
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:22,480
And I feel like that's probably
the same with like being a

1534
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:25,080
musician as well.
Yeah, for sure.

1535
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,320
Yeah.
A big part of, like, being a

1536
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:31,560
successful musician who wants to
do it as a job is finding your

1537
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:32,720
voice.
Yeah.

1538
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:35,840
And your style and what is
similar to art, It's the same

1539
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,000
thing.
Like you've mentioned your style

1540
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,600
a couple times in this
conversation.

1541
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,000
It's the same thing.
Like, think about your favorite

1542
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,480
artists.
Like you can generally hear.

1543
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,560
Most of the time you don't even
have to hear somebody sing.

1544
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,000
Like, you can hear that first
guitar note and you're like, oh,

1545
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,040
this is Eric Church's band.
This is Tyler Childer's band.

1546
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,320
This is like, this is John
Moreland playing acoustic

1547
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,640
guitar.
Like, you hear it and you're

1548
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,320
like, OK, I know exactly who
that person is.

1549
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:07,320
And I can't remember how we were
going to circle that in.

1550
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:10,640
I think when we like, have
idols, like that's the thing

1551
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,560
too, is like, if you're not
duplicating somebody else, like

1552
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,320
100%.
Yeah, I know.

1553
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:18,080
I think there are people who've
tried to duplicate other

1554
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,360
artists.
And, you know, I think along the

1555
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,680
way you find your own style.
You have an inspiration trail

1556
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,200
with it, you know what I mean?
Like, and somehow you still kind

1557
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:27,440
of branch out because it's still
you.

1558
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:31,760
Yeah, well, a lot of times,
especially in the music realm,

1559
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,800
if you're a band that's really
close to your inspiration, that

1560
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,880
can almost be a negative because
you're not your own and you're

1561
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:40,280
not.
I can't remember the name of

1562
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,600
them right now.
There's a band that sounds

1563
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:46,640
exactly like Led Zeppelin, like
they're amazing.

1564
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,280
I think they're from Michigan.
Oh wow, so they're close by too.

1565
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,120
Yeah, I think they're a Midwest
band.

1566
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:54,600
I can't believe I'm drawing a
blank on the name, but

1567
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,600
regardless.
Like, do you know Led Zeppelin?

1568
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:01,480
Yeah.
OK, so like Robert Plant sings

1569
01:12:01,480 --> 01:12:04,640
like no other human I've ever
heard and tell this guy like

1570
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:07,000
it's Led Zeppelin because that's
who they are.

1571
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:10,400
And this other band is amazing.
Like they make original music.

1572
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:12,640
They're pretty big.
Like they're they worldwide

1573
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:16,800
tours, like they're pretty big
band, but I don't see them ever

1574
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:21,040
taking the next step because
it's like, oh, if I'm gonna

1575
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,080
listen to that, I'm gonna listen
to Led Zeppelin.

1576
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:24,840
Right.
It's almost that authenticity

1577
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,120
kind of thing because they're
kind of lacking it because

1578
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:29,640
they're so similar.
Yeah, and that is the hard part.

1579
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,840
I see what you're saying
actually, because those wood

1580
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:33,920
burners that I look up to,
there's a couple of them and

1581
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:37,680
they have the exact same style.
Like you could tell like what I

1582
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:41,240
was trying to do this other girl
did and she succeeded.

1583
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,920
You know, she, she has a style
just like that girl.

1584
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:49,080
I didn't, but I along the way
somehow develop my own, you

1585
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,800
know, which if I could burn like
that girl could, I'd be

1586
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,560
thrilled.
But at the same time, I'm not

1587
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,040
complaining.
It's the best of both worlds,

1588
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,600
you know, So it's probably.
Back to what you said earlier,

1589
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:02,640
but we always want what we can't
have in the combine that with

1590
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:06,040
the self I is always the most
critical I.

1591
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:08,960
Yes, yes, that's 100% those.
Two things together.

1592
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:10,440
You're always going to be
wanting something.

1593
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,440
Well, and it's just so funny.
Yeah, because I feel like, you

1594
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,160
know, when I try to do detail
like she can, the her name was

1595
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:18,000
like Hippie North.
And then there's another girl

1596
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,440
that looks like actually maybe
two other people now.

1597
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:22,160
I think they have the same idea
I did.

1598
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:23,200
They're just like, I love her
work.

1599
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,400
I want to be just like her.
Like her stuff is beautiful.

1600
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:28,760
And, you know, so their work is
very similar too.

1601
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,040
But yeah, mine's definitely not
similar.

1602
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:33,880
But I did did learn things along
the way where I'm like, don't be

1603
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:35,320
afraid to be bold with your
darks.

1604
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,960
Like just be bold in general.
And I think like, yeah, if

1605
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,600
you're duplicating somebody
who's big that that much, you

1606
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,560
lose the authenticity and you
don't have that surprise dynamic

1607
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:48,240
with it where people are looking
at it being like, that's so cool

1608
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,520
and different.
Absolutely, yeah.

1609
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:54,400
That's the balancing act too, of
taking from your inspirations

1610
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:58,360
but not being your inspirations,
like this and this.

1611
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:00,720
And that's what ends up in here.
They making you, you.

1612
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,480
It's interesting.
So since since we set up the

1613
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:05,840
podcast, I've, I've obviously
like looked at a lot of your

1614
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:07,800
stuff to make sure I was ready
for the conversation.

1615
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,240
Social media has now been
feeding me other wood burning

1616
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,800
artists with their stuff.
So I've been seeing the other

1617
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,040
ones in.
And before I found your stuff,

1618
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,160
it was something that wasn't
even in my algorithm.

1619
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,800
But now, you know, social sees
that I see yours a lot.

1620
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,280
So they think I want to see a
bunch more.

1621
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:28,560
And there is that like I never,
I never would have known before,

1622
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,960
like finding your stuff and
having this conversation that

1623
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:37,520
there could be such stark
contrast in the styles of wood

1624
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:41,200
burning because you think of
like hot thing on wood.

1625
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:45,160
OK, it's going to come to life
and this is what that type of

1626
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,000
art is going to look like.
But that's not true at all.

1627
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:48,640
They look different and there's
different styles.

1628
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:49,440
They're.
So different too.

1629
01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:52,080
Yeah, there's some people who
don't, they're not bold at all.

1630
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,360
They they burn light.
It's funny because I like to go

1631
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,200
to this place.
I think it's like a woodcraft.

1632
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,880
And there's this lady who works
there and she's always like.

1633
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,560
And her, I will say her
equipment is Immaculate.

1634
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,120
It's beautiful and it's clean
and it's like, it probably lasts

1635
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:12,480
forever, but I was going in and
buying new spoon tips like every

1636
01:15:12,480 --> 01:15:15,440
two weeks and she's like, how do
you go through so many tips?

1637
01:15:15,440 --> 01:15:17,320
And I'm like, cuz I char the
crap out of my work.

1638
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,720
And she's, she's a low
temperature burner and she does

1639
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:22,600
beautiful work.
So she, she must be great.

1640
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,280
She burns while she's at work.
So I have the opportunity to be

1641
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,960
able to see what she does.
And it's very detailed, but it's

1642
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,360
very light and it's very subtle
and it's, you know what I mean?

1643
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:33,640
Like I love her stuff, but it's
definitely not me because I

1644
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:37,440
enjoy like I enjoy putting the
tip on the wood and watching it

1645
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,920
turn into a flame.
Like it's just there's something

1646
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,800
satisfying to me about it.
So I told her I'm like, I just

1647
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:44,880
char the crap out of everything
and have fun with it.

1648
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,000
And she's like, well, she gave
me some really great advice

1649
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,840
actually, because I wasn't
cleaning my the tip of my pen

1650
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:52,960
often enough.
So I'm breaking it constantly.

1651
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:55,600
Like because all that, you know,
the crease that or whatever

1652
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:57,720
sticks to it, it damages that
pretty fast.

1653
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:01,560
Her stuff is like, I, I laugh
because mine's like this charred

1654
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,760
mess and hers is like shiny and
beautiful yet.

1655
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:05,840
So I feel like there's different
motivations too.

1656
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:07,680
Like some people want to
preserve their equipment a

1657
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,840
little bit longer so they burn
in a nice low heat and they just

1658
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,720
take their time and are really
patient with it.

1659
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,160
I'm just like, I have this thing
in my head and I need to get it

1660
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:18,040
on to the wood and I want to do
it as fast as possible, but I

1661
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:21,440
want to have fun with it too.
So yeah, I just at the at the

1662
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:24,640
expense of my equipment
unfortunately, but I've learned

1663
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:26,960
how to preserve it over time now
a little bit better than I did

1664
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:28,920
before.
But they're making more.

1665
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:30,640
It's alright.
Yeah that's exactly it.

1666
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:34,000
But different styles are just
wild like on how different

1667
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,000
people are even with pyrography
aspect.

1668
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,360
It's probably harder to you
mentioned fine line work.

1669
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:40,440
It's probably harder to get a
fine line with a lower

1670
01:16:40,440 --> 01:16:42,800
temperature right?
The hotter probably you can.

1671
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:47,120
Not really actually, no.
I feel like if you, I mean, a

1672
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,680
lot of it's in worst speed too.
So like if you have a low

1673
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:53,640
temperature and you're going
really slowly versus you know, I

1674
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:57,000
mean, like I have some pretty
bold lines in that one and you

1675
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:58,640
know, you have the high
temperature and you have to go

1676
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:00,240
quick.
Otherwise you're going to just

1677
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,680
char one spot and it's going to
look funny or it's going to

1678
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:04,920
like, you know, it's going to
turn into a flame if you hover

1679
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:05,800
too long.
Sure.

1680
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:07,480
So a lot of it's in just in the
speed.

1681
01:17:07,480 --> 01:17:11,120
So you can get some really fine
lines at a low speed or sorry,

1682
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,360
low temperature, but you also
have to have a low speed.

1683
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:16,760
OK, interesting.
And from the videos, it probably

1684
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:20,040
looks like there's a lot to do
with pressure too, right?

1685
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,560
Because I noticed like sometimes
it seems like you press much

1686
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,120
harder than other times and, and
what is that?

1687
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,240
Is that like?
What does that do?

1688
01:17:27,480 --> 01:17:30,040
So like if I'm darkening the
background, I like to take wait,

1689
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,680
I like to take it and flatten it
out and then just put pressure

1690
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,480
because it's you can't see it as
much in here.

1691
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,280
But I had the like giant piece
that I did.

1692
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:40,080
I wish I could have brought
that.

1693
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:41,800
There is no way it would fit
here, but.

1694
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:43,680
This the six foot one you were
talking about?

1695
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:44,960
Or the 9 foot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1696
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:47,600
Like a bar top basically.
But that one, I put a lot of

1697
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,640
pressure on that one because it,
I kind of actually had an issue

1698
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:52,480
with the burning, but it also
offered texture.

1699
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,480
So like when you're putting like
a lot of pressure on it and you

1700
01:17:55,480 --> 01:17:58,200
have a high temperature, like it
literally texturizes the wood.

1701
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,440
So you, I feel like there's so
much, you know, we were talking

1702
01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:03,760
about like Hobby Lobby art
versus like real art when you

1703
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:07,800
could see the texture and things
and like, you know, like how it

1704
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:10,360
was produced, kind of like you
can actually touch it and feel

1705
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,720
it.
You know, I was talking with

1706
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,080
another artist about this not
too long ago and she was saying

1707
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:18,200
how people like to touch and
feel the art when it has texture

1708
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:21,760
there because I was trying to
like decide whether I should do

1709
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:26,760
a polyure thing, kind of finish
or, you know, epoxy or just try

1710
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,160
to keep the texture.
So that's usually why I try to

1711
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:31,720
press harder.
Another time with the the big

1712
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:34,680
pine piece, I was starting off
with that and then I trail off

1713
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,920
again.
That one had a lot of like SAP

1714
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:41,480
actually.
So it had a lot of that residue

1715
01:18:41,480 --> 01:18:43,120
coming out.
So I kind of pressed a little

1716
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:44,680
bit just to kind of get past
that.

1717
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,280
And then I got more of a burn
that way.

1718
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,960
And that was something I didn't
expect actually.

1719
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,080
So that was kind of unplanned,
but I pressed pretty hard on

1720
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:53,800
that one to get it too.
That's why I went through so

1721
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:56,080
many pens on that one.
I was going to say, pine pitch

1722
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:58,160
is probably really tough on the
tips, right?

1723
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:01,040
That was very, very tough.
And that was kind of around that

1724
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,080
same time I kept coming into the
store and buying more tips all

1725
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:05,680
the time.
She's like, what are you doing?

1726
01:19:07,480 --> 01:19:09,240
Just burning a big piece of
pine, yeah.

1727
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:11,360
Yeah, and you know, it's funny
because that was one of my first

1728
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:13,960
big pieces.
Like I had one bigger piece that

1729
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:17,560
was an eagle and that was like
one of my favorite pieces.

1730
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:19,520
That's when I graduated to the 9
foot slab.

1731
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,600
So I was still relatively new to
wood burning when I started

1732
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,160
doing these really big pieces.
And I was like, I guess I kind

1733
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,360
of thought that was the norm.
Then I'm like, oh, I'm just

1734
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,600
going to go through these tips
like crazy, you know?

1735
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:34,040
But it's OK, It's OK yourself.
So I just kept going and getting

1736
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:36,080
them and now I'm sitting here
and I've been doing a lot of

1737
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:39,440
smaller pieces because of
Christmas and I'm like floored

1738
01:19:39,440 --> 01:19:42,880
because I've had the same pen
last me the past 3-4 months.

1739
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:45,840
I don't know how I did it
because I still burn hot.

1740
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,560
It's just I don't press as hard.
I think I'm starting to learn

1741
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,880
some different ways to preserve
my equipment a little more too

1742
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,080
So and still.
Get the effect you're looking

1743
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:55,600
for.
Yeah, like instead of pressing

1744
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:57,280
as hard, I just hover a little
bit longer.

1745
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,080
So a little bit teaches me
patience as well.

1746
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:06,680
Yeah, So what like when you
what's the first one like when

1747
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:09,360
you when you got into it like
heavily.

1748
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:14,640
So not like the the earlier like
cheap one, but when you got the

1749
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:16,600
one, what was the first wood
burning piece?

1750
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,240
Do you remember being like,
Dang, maybe I can do this?

1751
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:23,920
Do you remember what it was?
Yeah, I'm trying to think it was

1752
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:25,640
birds.
Yes, actually it was.

1753
01:20:26,440 --> 01:20:30,000
And I look back on it, it's
funny because my stepmom, I, I

1754
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:33,400
had like a gallery thing with my
painting and I brought that just

1755
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:35,480
for just for shits and grins,
you know, for fun.

1756
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:40,400
And my, my, everybody loved it.
My stepmom bought it like like I

1757
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,680
think she knew that I was going
to get into it or something.

1758
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:44,760
It's kind of funny.
So she bought that one and she

1759
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:46,560
still has it.
So when I go to my dad's to

1760
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:50,880
visit, I still see it hanging
there and I'm like, that sucked

1761
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:52,560
so bad.
Like I can't believe she liked

1762
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:54,320
it so much.
That's why I like put the

1763
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,160
acrylic paint with and add the
colour pop.

1764
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:58,200
And I'm like, it's so dollar
story.

1765
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:00,320
Like it just looks kind of
cheap, you know?

1766
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:03,960
So I think that's what first
inspired me to be like.

1767
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:06,120
But there was some.
Fragments inside of that one

1768
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,360
that you saw the vision come to
life.

1769
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:10,520
Yeah, that's where I'm like, I
think this is fun to do.

1770
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:12,840
And then, you know, that's kind
of the first one.

1771
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:14,800
Like this was an enjoyable piece
to do.

1772
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:18,640
Like I had fun with it.
And then as I kept going, there

1773
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:23,600
was one instance where I, I was
also in a gallery too at the

1774
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:25,680
time.
I'm still in a gallery, kind of,

1775
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:29,200
I had to bring more pieces, but
I was in a gallery at the time

1776
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:32,480
and they, I brought a wood
burning and that was, I'm trying

1777
01:21:32,480 --> 01:21:35,720
to remember what kind of it was
birds again, for some reason, I

1778
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:38,080
did 1 bird.
It was 1 bird and some feathers.

1779
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:40,240
And I'm like, I didn't turn on
half bad.

1780
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:43,200
So I brought it and they said
that yeah, I keep doing the wood

1781
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:44,880
burning.
And then the one that I really

1782
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:46,720
was like, OK, yeah, this is my
thing.

1783
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:49,920
I did a moose and it's sold
instantly.

1784
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:52,320
Like I took it to the gallery.
It's sold instantly.

1785
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,720
The gallery owner's like bring
more, bring another moose like

1786
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:58,360
it.
It went quick and then I just

1787
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:00,680
kept doing that and then it
branched out into other animals.

1788
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:02,280
The first one really was a
moose.

1789
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,400
I you'd almost think it was a
horse, but it wasn't.

1790
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:07,600
That's like my specialty.
My go to is always horses.

1791
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,160
Yeah, that's an interesting
question.

1792
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:14,240
So you're a horse person.
You have horses like this one or

1793
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,080
any of the horse pieces.
You mentioned also earlier that

1794
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:19,240
you did a specific dog for
someone like.

1795
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:22,920
Are these like?
Is this horse a specific horse

1796
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:26,440
or is this one that you created?
There are horses that I just

1797
01:22:26,440 --> 01:22:28,320
think look cool like in my head
and I'm like going to see

1798
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:31,640
something that just floats or
flies, you know, like sure, like

1799
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:33,920
sometimes you'll see a picture
that kind of inspires you and

1800
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:35,440
it's just like, gosh, that's
beautiful.

1801
01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:38,120
Like it just kind of like, you
know, it's then it sticks in

1802
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:41,600
your head for a while and then,
yeah, kind of have an idea of

1803
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:43,920
what you want.
So not usually specific.

1804
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:46,840
Like if people request it, yeah,
I'll be specific, OK.

1805
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:49,240
But most of them are just like
these fantasy ideas.

1806
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:51,160
OK.
So when you did the dog for the

1807
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:54,240
person, did did you just like
model that after a picture of

1808
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:56,280
said dog?
Yeah, yeah, is.

1809
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:59,320
That harder then because it says
it is a specific animal.

1810
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,480
It is a little bit like they
have certain like my big

1811
01:23:01,480 --> 01:23:03,000
challenge.
I noticed especially over

1812
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:04,240
Christmas because I had a lot of
them.

1813
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:07,160
I'll usually ask them to send me
like two or three different

1814
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:11,800
pictures and usually it works
out fine, but you know, they may

1815
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:15,920
have a specific marking and the
lighting that they wanted in

1816
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,040
like all of a sudden it's just
not working out for some reason.

1817
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:19,720
So then you have to mess with
it.

1818
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:21,640
So there's a little bit more
tweaking and things like that

1819
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:23,360
that go along with it.
The other part too, is like if

1820
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:26,640
somebody has a horse they want
done, well, horses like they'll

1821
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:28,960
change color all year depending
on their winter coats.

1822
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,880
So sometimes I'm sort of like,
OK, so this horse looks

1823
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:34,640
completely different than this
horse.

1824
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:36,440
Like, which one do they even
want?

1825
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:39,160
You know, like I try to stick to
the headshots because it's

1826
01:23:39,160 --> 01:23:40,400
probably the most tried and true
way.

1827
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,600
But but yeah, it can be
difficult.

1828
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:44,960
I mean, you know, it's, I feel
like every single animal is a

1829
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,720
little bit different depending
on, you know, markings and

1830
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:51,240
specific kind of things.
I, I always say this sounds

1831
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:53,600
really weird.
I start out with the eyes first

1832
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,760
in a lot of cases because, yeah,
if you don't get the eyes right,

1833
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:58,200
the rest of it's not going to
work.

1834
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:00,680
A person knows their pet by
their eyes.

1835
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:04,640
Yeah, that has to be extremely
difficult.

1836
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,880
I'm thinking about it one of my
favorite like pieces of wall

1837
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,320
decor in our house.
It's like it's not a one of one.

1838
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:15,080
It's a it's like a reproduction.
I'm not exactly sure how they

1839
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:17,880
did it, but it's this blotches
of different color and it's

1840
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,840
pretty big.
It's like it's probably about

1841
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:22,600
the size of your horse here, but
square.

1842
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:28,200
And it is it's a dog.
And we had a chocolate lab that

1843
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:30,040
we lost like 3 or 4 years ago.
Oh, I'm.

1844
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:32,160
Sorry.
It happens.

1845
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:35,040
It's you get animals and they
fall in love with them and then

1846
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,040
they go across the Rainbow
Bridge and we have to live

1847
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:41,080
without them.
So it is the awesome thing about

1848
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:46,080
this piece though is it strikes
a bearing or a bears a striking

1849
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,480
resemblance to our dog that we
had.

1850
01:24:48,480 --> 01:24:51,000
And it's just like this
reproduction piece where they

1851
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,040
made thousands of them probably.
Yeah.

1852
01:24:53,440 --> 01:24:57,840
But it's these blotches of color
that like looked strikingly like

1853
01:24:57,840 --> 01:24:59,920
our dog.
And I was like, OK, got to buy

1854
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:00,840
this.
Absolutely.

1855
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:04,040
So like we, we went in there
like planning to buy.

1856
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:06,960
Like we weren't it.
We were going through like we

1857
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,160
were in a different town just
going through stores as like

1858
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,240
killing time not looking for
anything.

1859
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:13,920
End up taking this big ass dog
thing home.

1860
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:17,120
Funny the way it works, like
don't expect it and it just

1861
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:18,680
jumps at you.
Absolutely.

1862
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,200
And the whole reason about it
was because it looked like

1863
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:25,640
Emmet.
So that that has to be tough,

1864
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:27,560
right?
That I would think like of the

1865
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:31,600
art that you do and of the
projects that you do like.

1866
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:37,040
That's a tough gig to to make
someone else's pet come to life.

1867
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:39,840
You know, it's sometimes it's
really kind of humbling

1868
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,960
experience actually, because
like you realize how much you

1869
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:45,240
don't know on certain things.
Sure.

1870
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,120
So like, I've definitely learned
it's, it's been good for skills

1871
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:51,480
in general because I've learned
like I've learned how to, you

1872
01:25:51,480 --> 01:25:54,280
know, fine tune proportions
because you can have a black lab

1873
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:57,000
or chocolate lab, but like you
said, that one looked like your

1874
01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:59,680
dog.
And you know, there might be

1875
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:02,760
certain things about a certain
black lab that looks just like,

1876
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:04,160
you know what I mean?
Like they might have a shorter

1877
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:06,280
snout or they might have.
So you have to look at the

1878
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:09,600
things that make them them and,
you know, be more observant

1879
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,560
about it versus I used to just
be like, you know, it's a dog,

1880
01:26:13,480 --> 01:26:16,800
it, it has a white spot on its
face or something like that, you

1881
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,480
know, and just be able to know
some of those characteristics.

1882
01:26:19,480 --> 01:26:20,960
But there's more that goes into
it.

1883
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,560
And like, I definitely have
realized that after a bunch of

1884
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:26,040
failures where I'm sitting here,
like, you know, I could be like,

1885
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:28,320
I could just going to do a dog
with a, you know, white spot on

1886
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:32,160
its face or black ear or
something, and then realizing it

1887
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:34,520
looks nothing like that dog.
It looks like a totally

1888
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,800
different dog with a black ear
or white spot on his face.

1889
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:40,200
You know, So yeah, it's, it's
really just, it's made me more

1890
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,160
observant as an artist to
actually look at it and just be

1891
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:48,200
like, OK, so you know, it has
some weird characteristics, like

1892
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:51,200
it's eyes are kind of set far
apart or it has a shorter muzzle

1893
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:54,680
or it has, you know, there's
just, or it's mouth is like set

1894
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,480
way back.
Like some have the stretch of

1895
01:26:56,480 --> 01:26:57,640
your mouth.
You know what I'm talking about.

1896
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:00,000
Yeah, that's my Husky.
That's why I say that.

1897
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:04,720
Yeah, well, it's super cool.
Sarah.

1898
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,000
I appreciate you coming on and
sharing some of it.

1899
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:10,400
And since you were having me,
thank you.

1900
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:13,840
Yeah, well, as soon as I saw the
stuff, it just really caught my

1901
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:14,720
eye.
We had to.

1902
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:22,040
I love talking with people with
a like artistic outlets that

1903
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:25,400
come out in a plethora of
different ways.

1904
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:27,960
We've had a bunch of musicians,
we've had a bunch of film

1905
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:34,960
directors, we've had visual
artists like you and it always,

1906
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:40,520
the conversation always
intrigues me because I love

1907
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:46,440
shining a light on the thought
and effort and passion behind

1908
01:27:46,440 --> 01:27:50,880
people's art.
And it's always through a

1909
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:53,400
different lens.
The story is always new because

1910
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:55,560
it's always unique, like it's
unique to you.

1911
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:59,320
And I think it's so important
just because I think like just

1912
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:04,120
art in general and allowing our
creativity to come to life is

1913
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:07,120
just so important.
Like my mission with the podcast

1914
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:09,720
is connecting people and I think
long.

1915
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,600
I'm a firm believer that long
form conversation does that.

1916
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:15,160
Absolutely.
It definitely does a. 100% yeah.

1917
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:19,760
Like as soon as you can break
down those barriers and get to

1918
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:24,480
the core of who people are, like
it doesn't matter who the hell

1919
01:28:24,480 --> 01:28:26,840
you voted for.
It doesn't matter what you think

1920
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:28,960
about this political issue.
It does.

1921
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:34,040
But at the same time, the core
piece of it is that when people

1922
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:39,000
can see and hear the story of
like why this even exists in the

1923
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:46,880
1st place, I think it humanizes
art and also art connects us and

1924
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:48,360
I just love telling the story of
it.

1925
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:50,640
It does.
I I appreciate that you have

1926
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:52,520
that view on it.
It's honestly, it's kind of such

1927
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:55,080
a neutral ground for people.
I mean, unless of course,

1928
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:57,320
they're doing like political art
or something, you know, like,

1929
01:28:57,640 --> 01:28:59,880
yeah, it's like stuff like, you
know, just generalized, like

1930
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:01,600
wildlife art.
It's such a neutral ground for

1931
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:03,640
people.
I think it's safe to say that

1932
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,000
most of us appreciate that kind
of atmosphere.

1933
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,600
You know, I, I don't want to say
everybody, but a lot of people

1934
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:12,000
do, you know?
There's there's comfort in

1935
01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:21,440
someone being willing to share
themselves via their art, you

1936
01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:25,680
know, like someone who writes a
really personal song or someone

1937
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:27,760
who creates a really specific
piece of art.

1938
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:30,360
Like that 10 year old Sarah who
showed your grandma and I was

1939
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:33,800
like, look what I made.
Yeah, think about that feeling.

1940
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:39,400
And I it's just so important.
And sometimes, you know, the the

1941
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:43,680
perception of the importance of
art gets dwindled.

1942
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:46,720
Like we hear all the time about
how funding for art in Wisconsin

1943
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,120
is much lower than throughout
the rest of the country.

1944
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:52,120
It's right.
And it's just important to

1945
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:55,000
continue to shine a light on.
So I appreciate what you make

1946
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,160
and I appreciate you coming on
to chat about it with us.

1947
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:59,360
I absolutely appreciate you
having me on here too, and I

1948
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:02,040
love your podcast, so I'm
excited to be a part of it, so

1949
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:03,080
thank you.
Perfect.

1950
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:04,440
Thanks, Sarah.
Thank you.

1951
01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:05,600
I appreciate it very much, Brad.