Ryan Ebert - Art, Fish Decoys, Dark House Spearing, and Saving Public Lands - Ep#46

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What's up friends, Welcome back
to Rooted Wisconsin.

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Appreciate you for clicking
another episode.

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Appreciate you for being you.
Today's is with Ryan Ebert,

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artist based out of Fort
Atkinson, WI down on the

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southern side.
Really talented artist in a lot

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of different realms.
What caught my eye originally

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was his fish decoys.
He's a dark house spear and that

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got him into creating these
awesome fish decoys that you

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have to check out.
He creates apparel.

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He has all different kinds of
stuff around his art and he

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transitioned into that position
of entrepreneurship from he used

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to work as an art director for a
print publication in the

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agriculture industry.
Fun conversation about his

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career path, about his art.
I found out he was on a podcast

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with the guys from Meat Eater,
which was really cool.

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I respect what they do a lot, so
it was cool to hear that and

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talk about CWD in Wisconsin.
Ryan is a a hunter and avid

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outdoorsman, as am I, so that
commands a lot of our

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conversation and we go a lot of
different directions.

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So excited to share it with you
today.

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Check out his art.
I'm just getting back from a

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family vacation up in the UP
where I got a a day to sneak out

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and chase some brookies.
If you check out the Instagram

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pictures, the sun hoodie I'm
wearing that with the crappie

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Stringer is Ryan's art.
He's created some cool apparel

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around it and just all around a
really cool guy and fun

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conversation.
So excited to share it with you.

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As always, shout out to our
sponsors at Riverside Pizzeria

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of Green Bay.
Appreciate you Ryan.

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I just had a number six with
cheese out yesterday.

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Extra pepperoncini's was
delicious as always.

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So if you dig what we do, make
sure you support them too.

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Excited to share it with you.
Here it is, Ryan Ebert.

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We try to lift our neighbors.
Where did the love go?

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Where did the talk end?
We need to help to make this

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again.
Like how did these start man?

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Like how did, how how did a fish
decoy start?

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Pretty much in college that I
got connected, one of my good

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friends I made in college, he
lives up and lived from

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Marinette, Wisconsin, kind of up
on the Michigan border there.

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And he just told me about like,
hey, me and my dad in the winter

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do this thing called dark house
Spearing.

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And for Pike and I, you know, I
didn't have any idea of what

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that was.
Cuz it, you know, Pike Spearing

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isn't really a thing here in
Wisconsin for the most part.

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You know, we have sturgeon
spraying, but even that was a

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little bit foreign to me where I
was at, you know, about two

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hours from Lake Winnebago.
So I hadn't really done that

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either.
So then one winter, man, must

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have been like O7 or O8 went up
to the UP.

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And it was a real hard winter.
So there's a lot of snow.

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We couldn't get out to like one
of the lakes that they wanted to

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try.
So we just went on this little

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Marina just over the border
there and went Spearing and we

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didn't even see a Pike that day.
But I was just so cool, like

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seeing these decoys that my
buddy's dad, who was a warden

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for Wisconsin at the time, that
he was carving these decoys and

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we saw like trout and stuff.
And we had this Otter that kept

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coming up under the ice and it
was just so neat and I was

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really fascinated by it.
But it was a couple years before

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I started making my own decoys
because at that time I was in

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apartment and like, like, well,
I'm not going to be making a

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carving mess in my, you know,
little apartment.

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So when I finally got a house, I
just started carving in the

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corner of my garage and, and I'd
gotten one of the decoys for my

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buddy's dad and just was like
looking at it and trying to

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figure out, you know, how this
thing is made And like looking

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at photos online because there
isn't really like wasn't any

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sort of tutorials at the time of
like, here's how you make a fish

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decoy.
So there's just a lot of trial

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and error and, and figuring it
out and I was just obsessed with

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it.
And you know, I've always been

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like a creative artistic type
person.

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So just naturally really
gravitated towards the

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functional art that is a decoy
and just thought that was so

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cool.
Yeah, absolutely.

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We'll get into all of the art in
a little bit.

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We'll take back the clock.
But a couple questions about

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these.
So like is this I've never been

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Spearing.
I've never been Spearing any

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kind of fish, sturgeon or or
other Is this what's actually

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down there?
Cuz I I've seen the videos like

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you see the video of the the
decoy down there.

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Is it actually wood like this?
And that's.

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The Yep, yeah.
I mean, there are a few guys

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that are doing like resin.
There's a few guys that are

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starting to try like 3D
printing, but traditionally

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they're all wood.
Usually they're all cedar just

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'cause that holds up the best to
the temp changes and like, you

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know, going in and out of
freezing water.

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Cause certain types of woods,
like basswood is really easy to

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carve, but if you put that in
the water and if any water seeps

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into that, that thing's going to
implode and crack.

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So cedar, you know, just holds
up the best.

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And yeah, so you're carving it
out of cedar and then waiting it

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to swim and usually using like
copper or aluminum for the fins.

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So yeah, if you were to put
these in the water, they'd do a

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big like, slow circle for Pike,
you know, that swim and like

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things like that matter a little
bit more for sturgeon.

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Guys are just basically hanging
those down there.

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They're not swimming them a
whole lot.

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And sturgeon decoys are
generally more creative and

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colorful and larger because
sturgeon are just big curious

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dinosaurs, whereas a Pike is an
aggressive predator and they're

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actually coming in to like,
hammer the decoy and try and eat

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it.
So.

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Yeah, well, then I'm assuming
they'll do that right, like.

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Yeah, yeah, they'll, they'll
hammer at it and bite at it.

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And yeah, I got some decoys that
are like 10 years old now that

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are just beat the hell.
And, you know, it's, it's a

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badge of honor.
People are like, oh, you don't

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want a Pike to like, you know,
smash this beautiful decoy.

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It's like, no, that means it
works.

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It's awesome.
It's like a stamp of approval on

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the decoy.
Absolutely, Yeah.

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Yeah.
So where, like where are the

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weights?
And they and you said they swim.

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I have so many questions.
So.

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So they'll like that actually
swims in the water without you

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having to do anything.
Yeah.

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So you'll put it on a jig line,
like on a jig pole, and then

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once you jig it, yeah, it'll go
on a forward motion and do a big

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slow circle.
Some guys, you know, like him to

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swim a little bit faster.
You can do funky things with the

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fins to make them kind of move
differently.

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Or they have ones that are
called like wiggle decoys that

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don't have the side fins, and
they'll act like a dying fish

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and kind of do like a belly
flop.

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Every fish is a little
different, especially if

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depending on what you're using
for the fin material can like

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throw off how you're weighting
it.

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Usually that lead cavity is from
like the back of the gills to

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like your center of balance if
that makes sense.

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Like if you put it on a pencil
and that kinda gives you an idea

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and you're trying not to go too
deep with it cuz it'll get top

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tippy if you go too deep.
So you're keeping it all kinda

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in that lower third of the
belly.

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And then it's just a lot of
trial and error.

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Like sometimes it's literally
one drop here I'll make it go

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right.
Or you got to take a little bit

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out because it's, you know,
getting tail heavy or something.

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And yeah, it's a lot of
tinkering.

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Super interesting and it's hand
carved.

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I'm assuming like these are hand
carved.

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Yeah, it's a mix of all
different tools, a little bit

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power carving knives, like the
ones with all the scales like

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that.
It's one at a time with a wood

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burner, putting the scales in
and yeah.

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Oh, so that's OK.
So that's a wood burner that did

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the scales.
Ye, yeah.

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And then just, yeah, one at a
time going through there and

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that's a couple different like
size scale tips and things to to

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get it right.
And I'm assuming, do people buy

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these that aren't
spearfishermen?

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Oh, buy them for art.
Yeah, I would say at least like

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half of what I make probably
just goes on shelves and like

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houses and like cabins.
I actually have this map like

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AUS map in my wood carving shop
and I put a pin every time I

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like ship a decoy to somewhere
And there's pins all over the US

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and I mean states that for sure
aren't getting ice.

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Like these are not being used
for anything other than as a

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collectible.
And there is a huge collector's

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market for these and all mine
and I do sign and like numbers

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and put the year on it.
Yep.

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And there's, you know, like
sporting good shows and like

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sporting auctions and things
like that.

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There's a huge one in Illinois
that just happened a few weeks

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ago, the Guyette and Dieter
auction.

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In the last few years they've
broken like some records for

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fish decoys.
Like I think last year's hard 60

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grand for an Oscar Peterson
decoy.

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He's like a. $160,000.
He from Michigan in like the

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1940s, I want to say was when he
was like carving.

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But yeah, so like stuff like
that really, you know, there is

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a big market and not quite as
big as like duck decoys, you

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know, that everybody thinks of a
decoy.

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But yeah, there is a market for
fish decoys for sure.

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I mean, maybe it's 'cause I'm a
fisherman and not a duck hunter

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so much, but I think the fish
are way cooler.

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Yeah, myself.
That yeah, I, I assumed as much

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because like immediately they
grabbed my attention and I was

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like, damn, I would actually I
like, I would order this just to

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like set on the shelf, you know,
super cool.

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So where does art start for you,
man?

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I read your bio.
I saw the stuff online.

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Where does art start for you?
It seems like it goes a lot of

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different angles for you.
Yeah, I mean, really, when I was

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a little kid, like just always
was super into drawing and like

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doing drawings for my friends
for like a dollar, you know,

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things like that.
And then when I got into like

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middle school, high school, I
started messing around with the

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scroll saw and was making like
yard art and garden markers and

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stuff.
And I was selling those for

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again, a couple dollars, you
know, just all this time making

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things.
But that's kind of where like

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the creative entrepreneurial
spirit kind of started.

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And then didn't really quite
know what I wanted to do, like

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coming out of school, but knew
that I want to do something with

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art.
I come from a farming

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background.
So like, I briefly thought about

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doing something in agriculture
and I just kind of stumbled into

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METC and Madison and graphic
design.

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I'm like, well, that seems like
something I can do and make

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money out.
But I had no concept of of

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graphic design or what that was
at the time, you know, from a

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super small town or Rio, less
than 1000 people like, and old

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enough that we, you know, really
didn't have like computers or

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anything like that in art class.
Like I was the kid helping

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other, you know, helping the
teacher with, you know, kids

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with their art projects and
things like that.

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So yeah, I went to school for
graphic design and really

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learned a lot there and kind of
started learning more about

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photography, which I was
interested too at the time, you

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know, shot like friends, senior
pictures and stuff like that in

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high school.
And then I did an internship for

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a catalog company and kind of
learned more about like studio

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work and layout.
And then at My Portfolio show,

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I'm an editor for a publishing
company in Fort.

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I was there and it's an egg
publishing company.

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And I had listed that I had my
American degree in FFA on my

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resume, which maybe seem like a
weird thing to my instructors at

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the time, but he saw that and
it's like, oh, this guy's, you

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00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,280
know, we're looking for a
designer.

224
00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:45,360
This guy's interested in
agriculture.

225
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,760
And so then I got an interview
and was hired as their art

226
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,120
director right out of college
and and then kind of went from

227
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,240
there.
That was your first gig?

228
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,360
Yep, Yep.
Yeah, there's a lot there, man.

229
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,280
Because you know, that's what
you try to do.

230
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,240
And when you're searching for a
job, you try to set yourself

231
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,320
apart and you didn't know they
were going to be there.

232
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,480
Like you just had it on.
Your wrist no, I mean they they

233
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,840
for the portfolio show that was
at the Manila terrace, you know,

234
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,480
they send it out to all the
employers kind of in the area

235
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,040
and stuff and yes, I had no idea
they were they were going to be

236
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,360
there and.
The only farm boy graphic

237
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,360
designer.
Is in the class probably.

238
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,520
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, yeah.

239
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,360
That's all.
So what kind of farm did you

240
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:19,880
grow up on?
What?

241
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,080
What did you?
Real small hog and poultry farm

242
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,880
and then my parents both worked
for a cheese factory in Portage

243
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,680
too so.
OK, man.

244
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,400
So that's so then that sounds
like an interesting gig.

245
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,640
And from what I remember, you
were there for quite some time.

246
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:41,240
How do the like, how do you
continually like, there's not a

247
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,960
lot of people that look at that
through the lens of art, but you

248
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,000
got to for a long time, right?
That had to be super

249
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:46,720
interesting.
Yeah.

250
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,920
So I was there for 11 years as
our director working mainly on

251
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,600
Hoard's Dairyman Magazine, which
is a very historic publication

252
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,080
that was founded by WD Hoard,
who was like a governor of

253
00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,000
Wisconsin, kind of really
brought the dairy industry to

254
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:05,040
Wisconsin and was instrumental
in a lot of lot of things we

255
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,200
kind of take for granted now as
far as that goes.

256
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,680
And then also it was the art
director for Hay and Forage

257
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,120
Grower magazine.
And then at the time they also

258
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,320
owned 13 newspapers in southern
Wisconsin.

259
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,600
So helped a little bit with
that.

260
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,080
And then they had their own
print division and, and I also

261
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,200
travelled throughout the US
visiting farms, taking photos

262
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,320
and video work and stuff for the
magazine and kind of doing a

263
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,720
little, little bit of everything
as far as publishing went.

264
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,960
Yeah, super cool.
And that's a, that's a neat

265
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,000
opportunity for someone who, I
mean, your degrees, graphic

266
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,320
design, photography was a
passion, but then to immediately

267
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,040
jump into a job where your
photos are in magazines.

268
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:44,640
So that's kind of a that's a big
leap.

269
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,880
Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of
learning on the go and yeah,

270
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,080
just developing my skills and,
and kind of what I've always

271
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:53,360
done.
Yeah.

272
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,920
I really, I kind of dive head
1st and everything and just

273
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,040
learn as much as I can about
whatever that subject is and

274
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,920
creative work.
And yeah, it was, yeah, it was

275
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,720
definitely neat and met a lot of
really cool people and saw a lot

276
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,720
of cool farms and did I think
pretty well with the magazine

277
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,160
and won some nice accolades
there.

278
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,920
And like I said, yeah, 11 years
of starting out.

279
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,640
Yeah, Ditto man.
I jump in just head first,

280
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:21,680
passionate about everything,
just end up way too busy all the

281
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:22,760
time right?
Yeah.

282
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,040
But it's so worth it, man.
Like when you find something

283
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,400
that lights your fire and keeps
going, it's so, it's so engaging

284
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,840
and it makes life worth living,
you know?

285
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,240
Yeah.
And being from that farm

286
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,200
background, and I could kind of
like relate to a lot of people.

287
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,120
And, you know, it wasn't from a
dairy farm, but it like, I still

288
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,520
understood, you know, what, what
these people were going through

289
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,400
as far as farm work and life
goes.

290
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,160
And wasn't just some, you know,
like city kid or whatever that

291
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,400
didn't understand I was coming
there and kind of knew how to be

292
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,920
respectful of different things.
And when I'm taking the pictures

293
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,080
and doing all that, Yeah.
Yeah.

294
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,400
So then that was probably a
crash course too.

295
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,360
One of my passions is like
journalistic storytelling.

296
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,560
And that was probably a crash
course and that for you, right?

297
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:08,720
Because how involved were you in
the story and then or stories

298
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,040
and then what was it like
collaborating with those type of

299
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,720
creatives?
Probably for the first time too,

300
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:14,640
right?
Yeah.

301
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,720
So, yeah, I wasn't doing a lot
like much of the writing side of

302
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,480
it, but if I would go to a lot
of it was just building up like

303
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,560
stock photos for the magazine,
like if we needed something on a

304
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,800
specific article.
But then if I went to a farm

305
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,880
that hey, these people have a
really, you know, I was taking a

306
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,320
lot of notes while I was out on
the road and like, hey, these

307
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,720
people have a really cool story.
We obviously have all these

308
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,080
pictures for it now.
And I kind of hand that off to

309
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,400
the editor or a writer, a
freelancer, and just kind of go

310
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,160
from there and kind of work with
them on like, hey, this is is

311
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,320
worth telling in the magazine.
Super cool man.

312
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,160
So how fun could that how like
what else is more fun?

313
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,640
You get to drive around to
different farms, take pictures

314
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,040
that you think are cool, that
you get a creative lens and then

315
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,680
somebody else tells the story of
that.

316
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,360
That's that's so cool.
So it sounds like the timeline

317
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,680
then you said the dark house
thing happened with a buddy in

318
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,160
college.
So the decoys happened about the

319
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,200
same time you were doing the.
Decoys while you were working?

320
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,440
Yeah.
So I was starting to learn

321
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,880
decoys and then like I said in
in high school and then through

322
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,880
college, I was kind of doing
pictures for friends and kind of

323
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,960
doing a little bit of design
work on the side.

324
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,360
So then all through my time as
the art director, I still had

325
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,240
this little bit of side business
that was kind of going and kind

326
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,840
of growing and just kind of,
yeah, developing my skill set as

327
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,760
far as everything I was doing at
that time.

328
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,120
And then I don't know, it was
probably eight years in or so I

329
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,640
kind of realized like, Hey, this
this side thing is, is growing

330
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,000
and it's growing into something.
And I was working, you know,

331
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,960
obviously more than full time at
the art director job and then

332
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,560
starting to be more than full
time on this side gig.

333
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,200
And then I kind of realized like
I need to just choose one or the

334
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,120
other.
So I think it's about year 9 or

335
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,520
so.
I realized like, yeah, I'm going

336
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,320
to go on my own full time, but I
also, I'm a very, like I said, I

337
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,000
grew up on farm, didn't have a
lot growing up, very frugal

338
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,560
person and like kind of very
conscious of those things.

339
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,040
I'm like, I'm not going to just
take this leap without like a

340
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,000
safety net.
So I started saving money,

341
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,840
building that client base like I
need if it's this fails, I, you

342
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,720
know, I don't want to be in
trouble as far as like I had

343
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,440
bought a home with my wife and
everything.

344
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,760
It's like I got to have that
safety net.

345
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,000
So then, yeah, the year 11, I'm
like, all right, I got a good

346
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,760
safety net.
I got a good client base.

347
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,920
I think, I think I can make this
work, you know, as a thing.

348
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,960
So then I made the leap in 2018
to being on my own full time.

349
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,760
It's a huge jump, a huge jump
when you're there's a certain

350
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,200
amount of especially for I think
similarly in a lot of aspects.

351
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,560
I'm cheap.
I'm I'm super cheap.

352
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,400
Frugal's a cool word, but I'm
super.

353
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:55,760
Cheap too.
Like I don't things are things,

354
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,000
right?
Like they don't like something

355
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,600
like this or your decoys have a
ton of like innate value.

356
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,119
But like just in the grand
scheme of life, like a lot of

357
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,960
people just buy things to to
have things.

358
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,400
And I'm not I'm not one to do
that so much either.

359
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:16,319
So I could feel you there, but
it's such a big leap to like

360
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:22,000
that's almost to go back to the
word safety of and security of

361
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,400
like this.
This weekly check or bi weekly

362
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,359
check comes in.
You trade your time for it.

363
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,160
You have your health insurance
insurance is fiasco throughout

364
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,480
the nation.
So you have that and you know,

365
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,000
and then you say, OK, something
else has my passion.

366
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,000
Did you have your child yet at
the time or no?

367
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,480
No, she's only a year and 1/2,
so she's relatively new to the

368
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:44,800
whole equation there.
Yeah.

369
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,520
But yeah, I mean, it was, it was
as scary as, like, the best way

370
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:50,400
to put it.
Yeah.

371
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,440
Yeah.
It was a very stable job.

372
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,200
And that's a company that, you
know, is a hard 40 years old

373
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,280
that, you know, publishing in
print is, you know, had its own

374
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:01,960
troubles.
But as far as stability goes,

375
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,720
that was very stable.
And they by no means were like

376
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:07,560
kicking me out the door or
anything.

377
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,240
That was a hard percent my
choice.

378
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,240
But I felt I felt very stagnant
as far as creative goes.

379
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,520
You know, it was at that time I
was putting out 26 issues of

380
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,760
magazines a year.
You know, it's just constantly

381
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,760
that churn of grinding stuff
out.

382
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,040
And there wasn't a lot of time
to be super creative within what

383
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,520
I was doing.
And you know, I toured a lot of

384
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,200
farms and done all that and like
I said, had some nice accolades

385
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,240
as far as photo and design work
can goes, all that.

386
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,880
And I just felt like I needed
something more to like keep

387
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,760
pushing me and really expand my
creative interests.

388
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,280
Yeah.
And when that once that fire's

389
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,160
lit, man, like it doesn't get
extinguished just because it's

390
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,920
not getting new wood put on it
like it continually wants to go.

391
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,080
Yeah, yeah, I kind of went
through the same thing in a

392
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,200
roundabout way.
I so I used to work in

393
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:02,360
broadcasting and then I like got
burned out from that singular

394
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,960
type of creativity.
So I got a different kind of job

395
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,720
that I loved and I still love.
But at the same time, there came

396
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,840
a point where I was like, I want
to create something again.

397
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,200
And that's how the podcast was
born.

398
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,480
Like that, that same flame that
you just had to stoke back up a

399
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,920
little bit.
So I yeah, yeah.

400
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,560
You got to have those passion
projects, like the decoys I know

401
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,880
are what everybody finds that
are interested in, but the

402
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,200
amount of time it takes me to
make one and then what I sell

403
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,360
them for, it's like the hourly
is not great.

404
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:32,280
So it's just like, that's my
passion project.

405
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,280
Like I am selling them.
But like if I had to rely on

406
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,240
just that, I'd be in big
trouble.

407
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,520
You know, they're not the money
maker.

408
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,960
But yeah, you got to have that
thing that is passionate and

409
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,440
even if it's not like driving
income or anything.

410
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,960
Yeah, I assumed that had to be a
case.

411
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,520
So I want to talk about all the
different angles of your

412
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,760
Business Today.
But I knew with the fish deque

413
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,400
was like I looked on Etsy and
they're what, like 2 to 500,

414
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,400
something like that.
Supposed to be the higher end,

415
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,080
like a basic worker for me is
like 100 bucks.

416
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:00,720
Yeah, OK.
Yeah.

417
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,440
And this is not two hours of
work, no.

418
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,640
Like, yeah, like that copy with
all the scales and Tom Turkey

419
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,840
spur that I found as the horn
and all that.

420
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,760
That's probably 12 to 14 hours
of work at at the minimum.

421
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,560
Yeah.
And there's a lot of steps in

422
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,680
those process too.
It's not like I can sit down in

423
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,720
the morning and have a finished
decoy by the evening.

424
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,960
It's like 2 weeks cuz there's
like drying periods in between

425
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,960
parts of the the process as far
as paint and waiting and all

426
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:27,840
that goes.
So yeah.

427
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,880
Someday he'll get the 500 grand
it'll.

428
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,600
Yeah, well, when I'm yeah, my my
daughter when I'm lawn pass

429
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,400
maybe, you know, and the guy at
in Dieter auction, you know,

430
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,760
that one will be 100 grand,
Yeah, or something.

431
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,240
Why do we do that?
Why do we do that as people?

432
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,960
We wait till people die to like,
give them accolades.

433
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,480
I think it's especially artists,
there's no more being made.

434
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,800
And, and I've kind of learned
this, I, I do a show in

435
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,080
Minnesota that's all about spray
and decoys.

436
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,480
And it's been going on for like
25 years and I've been going the

437
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:58,040
last 15 years now, I think.
And there's been guys that have

438
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,440
at that show that have passed or
either or they just quit carving

439
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,080
for whatever reason.
And you kind of you realize in

440
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,680
that moment that you need to buy
that from that Carver.

441
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,840
Like, you know, I make these
connections with these guys and

442
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,960
learn things from them.
So I like, I try to get one from

443
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,080
each car, like I'm a collector,
definitely on decoys and try to

444
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,960
get one from a guy because,
yeah, it's like when they're

445
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,920
gone, it's like, well, no more
is being made and I can't talk

446
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,680
to him.
And, you know, tell them how

447
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,320
awesome this, you know, piece of
artwork I'm getting from them.

448
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,960
And yeah, it is weird that we
just wait until, like, people

449
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,480
are gone to place a value on on
their art.

450
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,280
Yeah.
Yeah, so, so you actually you

451
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,000
buy several from others too.
Oh.

452
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,640
Yeah, yeah.
Much to my wife's dismay, I have

453
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,000
a very big yeah fish decoy
collection going.

454
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,520
Yeah.
It's either buying or trading.

455
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,880
You know, I like to trade with
guys too at that show and.

456
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,840
Yeah.
How big is very big?

457
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,440
How many do you have?
Oh, I don't know.

458
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,000
I mean, it's, it's probably like
100 decoys or something.

459
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,640
That's still a ton.
I mean, there's like major

460
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,080
collectors that I know have like
semi load like legit semis full

461
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,440
of fishy Kois that they're just
sitting on and yeah, weird.

462
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:06,000
I can I get the mystique of it,
man, I get the appeal because

463
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,800
it's there's so many layers to
it.

464
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,040
Like of course they're awesome
looking, but like I'm sure we'll

465
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,320
get into some outdoors type talk
today.

466
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,720
Like if you're an outdoorsman,
it's something that exhibits one

467
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,240
of your passions in life in a
really aesthetic way.

468
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,320
They're functional.
So like it's actually something

469
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,240
you can say you use if if you do
that type of thing.

470
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,920
And they're not like the, the
problem at least I run into with

471
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,560
a lot of like outdoor type decor
of any kind is they're hard to

472
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,360
make fit in unless it's like a
lodge vibe.

473
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:45,960
So like it's at the cabin or
something.

474
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,840
I don't think your decoys are
that like, I think, put it this

475
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,720
way, I think my wife would let
me put one of your decoys in my

476
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,880
house somewhere and that's
saying a lot 'cause I don't get

477
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,520
to, I don't get to decorate.
Yeah, yeah.

478
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,160
But you know what I mean?
Like they're there's a lot of

479
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,760
different things that make them
appealing.

480
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,680
Yeah, I think they speak to a
lot of people as far as, yeah,

481
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,960
if you have a passion for
outdoors or you have a memory,

482
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,760
like a lot of people buy them.
They'll tell me like, oh, you

483
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,000
know, this perch, I remember
catching this jumbo perch with,

484
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,200
like, my grandpa or something.
And that's why they want it.

485
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,240
Like it connects them to a
certain memory or, or moment or

486
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,640
whatever.
And I think, yeah, they just

487
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,840
speak to people in that way.
Yeah, that's awesome, man.

488
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:31,200
So like when you go through the
process of making one do, what

489
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,360
do you, what's your, what's your
muse like?

490
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,640
Do you look at something or do
you just like start creating it

491
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,280
from scratch?
It's a little bit of both.

492
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,240
It depends if like, you know,
these are kind of more

493
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,840
realistic, but I do a lot of
real folk arty ones and I'll

494
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,880
just kind of like doodle out
something that pops into my head

495
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,360
or I'll see something and think
of it and and then kind of start

496
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:51,640
from there.
But yeah, if it's a more

497
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,640
realistic one, I'm just like
Google image searching, like

498
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,120
here's different crappies and
like every fish has like great

499
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,040
variations as far as like colour
goes.

500
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,200
So it's like, oh, I'm going to
try and do one that's more like

501
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,240
spawning colours and it's real
dark or vibrant.

502
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,520
And yeah, so just a lot of
reference as far as that goes.

503
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,720
OK, yeah, so Speaking of the
things that aren't real, when

504
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,560
did the antlers on the fish
start?

505
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,560
So a quick back story, one of
the the coolest ones that I

506
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,520
think from yours, I love.
I like fishing for Browns in

507
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,720
streams.
So like Browns always catch my

508
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,920
eye.
And then you have the I think

509
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,840
it's on a plaque, right With
with two of them and one has the

510
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,480
antlers.
But you said that's, it's kind

511
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,680
of a, that's one of your things.
Yeah, real early on I started

512
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,560
making antler decoys, like with
real like deer antlers.

513
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,600
So those decoys are like 2 feet
long because in order to get

514
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,960
them to swim, you know, those
antlers really throw stuff off

515
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,040
as far as the swim goes.
So you got to make them pretty

516
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,640
big because there's already some
weight there and mass.

517
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,240
And I think I made like, I
called it a buck sturgeon and it

518
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,120
was like sturgeon body, but it
was like furry, you know, I like

519
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,000
etched in all these fur hairs
and stuff like that and then had

520
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,960
these antlers on it and just
started from there.

521
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,760
And then people really were into
that and I just thought it was

522
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,400
fun.
So then I've done a lot of Pike

523
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,640
and some musky ones.
And then I've made decals now

524
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,280
that are like my Pike elope and
put those on shirts and stickers

525
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,400
and yeah.
And it's just kind of what I'm,

526
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,320
I guess, known for amongst the
carving community, yeah.

527
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,840
Is that a unique thing?
Like does anybody else do it?

528
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,160
Have you?
Some guys have like dabbled in a

529
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,120
little bit, but not quite to the
extent and style that I do it,

530
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,000
yeah.
Yeah, super.

531
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,600
And where did that idea come
from?

532
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,720
Yeah, I get weird ideas and I
like had this list going always

533
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,160
of like weird stuff that pops
into my head or I'll see like on

534
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,280
Instagram like a decoy or a
fish.

535
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,080
Like there's these like surge
Rassi type fish that are very

536
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,880
vibrant colour like nowhere here
in the US and I think they're

537
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,120
like in South Korea or whatever.
And like stuff like that'll pop

538
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:56,320
up.
I'm answering like, oh, that'd

539
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,240
make a really cool fish decoy.
And it's, it's just kind of fun

540
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,520
to like bring that then to here
to the Midwest.

541
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,720
And it's like swimming this
tropical fish that would never

542
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,120
be found here here in the
Midwest lake, you know, getting

543
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,120
a Pike interested in or
sturgeon.

544
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,760
And yeah, it's just fun to make
those different things.

545
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,840
Yeah.
And you can probably create a

546
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,840
bit, right, because you were
Speaking of the curiosity of

547
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,440
sturgeon earlier.
But like, in general, I think a

548
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,720
lot of fish will swim up and
look at something.

549
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,240
Oh, yeah.
And you don't.

550
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,440
The the nice thing about it is
you don't have to get him to

551
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,120
bite.
You just have to get him to be

552
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:31,320
there so you can be a little bit
more, whatever you want to call

553
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,680
it creative obviously, but you
can take a little bit more risks

554
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,080
and say it's not going to, you
know, if someone does use it for

555
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,080
the functional purpose, it's not
going to make it less possible

556
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,400
that you get something or
whatever.

557
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,560
Yeah, let's switch gears that
direction a little bit though.

558
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,000
It looks like you do a lot of
outdoor stuff.

559
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,520
What are some of your outdoor
passions and favorite things to

560
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,320
do outdoor outdoors?
I mostly do deer hunting,

561
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,800
obviously, and always have done
that.

562
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,600
And yeah, a little bit of
fishing in the summer months,

563
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,680
but I'm so busy with like that's
my peak season as far as all my

564
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,680
creative work goes that I don't
get fishing as much as I'd like.

565
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,760
But do some salmon fishing on
Lake MI with some buddies and,

566
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,560
and then, yeah, in the winter,
I'm either sturgeon or Pike

567
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,000
Spearing when I can.
And those are the primary

568
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,360
things.
Used to do a lot more like

569
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,960
squirrel and rabbit hunting.
But where I'm at, the rabbit

570
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,400
population's been pretty down
for a while now, cuz I think

571
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,000
just predators and not a lot of
cover for them.

572
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,160
But we just logged our hunting
property here this last year, so

573
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,920
they got a lot of cover now.
And I finally saw my rabbit, a

574
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,680
rabbit for like the first time
in three years.

575
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,360
So I'm like, oh, maybe they'll
make a comeback now.

576
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:39,320
And yeah, coyotes, coyotes.
And we got an owl that's kind of

577
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,320
always around, and I think he
does well.

578
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,840
And I've seen some Bobcats in
the last few years.

579
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,560
You're in deer hunting.
So I think there's a lot of

580
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,280
stuff kind of keeping him
knocked down.

581
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,960
OK, do you do bow hunt too or?
No, again, like fall is like my

582
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,800
peak as far as my portrait
photography work goes and things

583
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,800
like that and still have a lot
of agriculture clients.

584
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,600
So obviously fall is a big time
for most agriculture related

585
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,160
things and.
Oh, so you so you do egg clients

586
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,400
doing what?
Yeah, so I still, you know, I

587
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,640
made all these great connections
when I was in publishing and

588
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,000
Infort is the National Dairy
Shrine.

589
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,280
So I do a lot of stuff for them
with their museum and then at

590
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,920
World Dairy Expo, that's every
October in Madison.

591
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,760
And then just have a lot of
clients that are still in the

592
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,840
dairy industry on all sides of
it, from manufacturing to

593
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,200
processing and and just do a lot
of like video design booth

594
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,040
displays, really a little bit of
everything.

595
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:32,840
Oh.
Content.

596
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,360
So, yeah, isn't that
fascinating, man?

597
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:40,200
Like you, you think about it,
that's that doesn't, you know,

598
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,680
immediately equate in your mind,
you think of an industry and

599
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,160
you're like, well, you know, how
much content could they really

600
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,080
need?
But then when you actually think

601
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,600
about it, it's actually quite a
bit.

602
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,760
Yeah.
And it and it constantly needs

603
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,160
to be refreshed and.
Yeah.

604
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,120
Well, unlike I said, yeah, dairy
Shines got a museum and then

605
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,480
there's all sorts of, you know,
the World Dairy Expo or State

606
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:01,800
Fair.
I shoot, you know, a lot of

607
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,760
dairy related things like that
and you kind of don't realize

608
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,160
how many of those events are
until like COVID hits and then

609
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,880
all those events go away for a
year.

610
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,240
And then then I kind of realized
like, oh, I do a lot of events

611
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,840
for these people and all those
are all gone for, you know, a

612
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,840
year, year and a half and.
Yeah.

613
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,960
So hold on, what Speaking of
that, what year did you decide

614
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,280
to quit your job and start your
on go on your own?

615
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,440
2018 So then I I had a great,
real great just feeling good

616
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,600
about myself for about two years
there.

617
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,080
And then yeah, COVID hit.
And again, luckily I'd saved up

618
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,560
that safety net and because I
definitely needed it.

619
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,200
And that time, you know, I
didn't, I didn't realize all the

620
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,800
events I did as far as either
shooting, you know, video photo

621
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,200
stuff for people or, or like
trade show type market things

622
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,680
that I did, you know, as far as
selling the own, my own things I

623
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,640
make.
And then I do like portrait work

624
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,360
too.
And you know, so that kind of

625
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,880
got thrown out of whack.
And yeah, kind of rode, rode the

626
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,880
storm there for a good year and
a half.

627
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:08,880
And and then in 2021 was IA
buddy of mine mentioned about

628
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,440
some screen printing business
being for sale.

629
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,520
And he's like, hey, me and this
other guy want to do this And

630
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,880
you know, you're the arts
person.

631
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,360
Would you be interested in doing
this?

632
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,200
So that's when I got started in
screen printing.

633
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,200
And then that was kind of it's
own like Rocky thing, both, you

634
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,520
know, still supply chain issues
of COVID.

635
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,320
And then this other guy that was
part of it, like was supposed to

636
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,480
be the knowledgeable guy.
I didn't realize he wasn't.

637
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,520
So that was its own Rocky thing.
But it I learned a new skill

638
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,960
there of screen printing.
I knew the art side of it, but I

639
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,200
hadn't really done screen
printing on my own.

640
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,400
So I kind of learned it for
about a good year and a half,

641
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,440
two years there and then kind of
brought that in under my own

642
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,120
main business.
And that was kind of where the

643
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,760
whole screen printing aspect
started.

644
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,680
And and that's been awesome as
far as doing my own like outdoor

645
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,320
fishing related type things and
apparel and people have really

646
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,000
been into that.
But then it's another thing I

647
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,400
can offer to my clients.
You know, when I designed a logo

648
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,960
or a graphic form, it's like,
Hey, I can now make the swag

649
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,040
for, you know, your event or
your bar or whatever, your staff

650
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,840
and things like that go.
Absolutely, yeah.

651
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,360
So for those that that don't
know what, what, how do you

652
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,120
define screen printing?
How so?

653
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,960
Like what is it?
Yeah, so I'm doing like actual

654
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,680
screen printing, not like
sublimation or vinyl transfers

655
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,360
type stuff.
So I'm actually designing the

656
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,280
graphics and then burning a
graphic onto a coded screen.

657
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,720
It's coded in emulsion so it's
all light sensitive.

658
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,280
So I burn that image onto the
screen and then use what's

659
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,480
called Placisol ink to then go
through that.

660
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,160
Basically what the stencil I
make and then to to imprint on

661
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,200
the shirts.
Got it.

662
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,560
Yep.
Yeah, so and that was so you

663
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,040
being the arts person coming in,
you're saying you learned kind

664
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,160
of that other side.
Which I think is super important

665
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,880
and all the front end of like
how to properly make the artwork

666
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,080
and set it up and, and and
that's really a major part of

667
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,960
kind of the peril process goes
to know that front end thing.

668
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:56,800
Yeah.
Yeah.

669
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,600
And then I mean, that's that's
grown.

670
00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,880
It's not only for clients,
right?

671
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,400
Like you, you make apparel that
you sell like that.

672
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,520
You had that super cool.
And recently I sent you a

673
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,440
message about it was like the
badger with the cheese head on

674
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:08,600
it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

675
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,000
So I made that like as a sticker
1st and then people are like,

676
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,160
oh, when is this gonna be on
shirts?

677
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,440
I'm like, all right, well, I
gotta change cuz yeah,

678
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,200
everything's a little different.
Like what you can do with a

679
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,040
sticker as far as colors and the
same as what you can do is like

680
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,080
screen printing.
So you gotta like deconstruct it

681
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,920
and bring it.
So I have a four color press.

682
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,840
I need to get that down to four
colors to be able to actually

683
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,960
screen print it.
So yeah, this the apparel has

684
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,440
been a big thing too.
When I'm doing like my fishing

685
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,880
related trade shows, things like
that, people really are into

686
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,600
what I'm making.
Like say I did the Pike lope on

687
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,960
apparel and get a lot of
requests for like the crappie 1

688
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,960
here is kind of a new one too,
because I have a lot of crappy

689
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,920
guys are like, hey, where's the
crappie stuff at?

690
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,640
And I think what I do is kind of
more tasteful, like everyday,

691
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,400
kind of like you can wear
anywhere where there's a lot of

692
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,600
fishing apparel kind of seems to
be a little bit over the top in

693
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,120
my opinion.
Like the NASCAR style, like

694
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,920
everything's got to have a
graphic all over and it's super

695
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,520
weird colors and just like,
well, that's not something

696
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,560
you're going to like wear out to
dinner with your wife or

697
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,520
whatever.
And so I think there is a a big

698
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,680
market for what I do and it's
really keeps growing a lot.

699
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,880
And I do like bigger like the
Wisconsin Fishing Expo and the

700
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,640
Wisconsin Fish Ice Fishing Expo
or those are big events.

701
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,800
And especially for a real small
business like me to do like

702
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,440
these major trade shows there,
it's a huge investment of time

703
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,800
and money.
But there's been just an awesome

704
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,320
reception to to what I'm
bringing to him.

705
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,920
Yeah, I completely agree.
There's certainly space in that.

706
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:39,240
A few episodes ago we had my
buddy Rex from Door County and

707
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,520
he he's same similar lines like
his his brand's called Door Born

708
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,320
and it's like a lot of outdoor
apparel for a long time was like

709
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,440
if it was like a way larger than
life largemouth bass, like

710
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,200
jumping out of water with a boat
and like such a busy thing.

711
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,520
It's like, I don't know, the
styles change and evolve since

712
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,200
then too, but I get what you
mean.

713
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,720
There's a there's a space for
that.

714
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,639
Similarly to I don't know this
conversation or why we do the

715
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,880
podcast.
I, I talk about it all the time,

716
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,760
but it's like, sure, that's
awesome to joke about brats and

717
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,360
cheese and stuff about Wisconsin
or like whatever.

718
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,960
But there's like legit cool
stuff too.

719
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,159
And I mean, you probably
actually, let's talk about that

720
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:28,719
a little little bit because you
probably get that same vibe

721
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,679
through the lens of arts in our
state.

722
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:36,480
Like sometimes it seems like
arts are a little bit covert in

723
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,679
Wisconsin.
Do you feel that way?

724
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:42,159
I like how so.
I don't know, like for anything.

725
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,760
So one of my like yourself, I
have a lot of creatives on the

726
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,400
show.
It's one of my favorite things

727
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,040
to talk about.
And like, I don't think we get

728
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,080
the credit or I shouldn't say
we, I don't think artists in

729
00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,280
Wisconsin get the credit they do
because sometimes it's just

730
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,880
because they're from Wisconsin.
It's like, no, people make cool

731
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,040
stuff here too, you know what I
mean?

732
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,280
Yeah, I think arts in general,
sometimes some people, it's hard

733
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,880
for them to put a value or see
the value on it until they're

734
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,160
like, you know, if they're
starting a business and they get

735
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,920
down the road, it's like, oh, I
don't have a proper logo or a

736
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,200
website or like a real
professional polished look.

737
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,040
And it's like, why are people
struggling to relate to my brand

738
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,520
and things like that?
Yeah, they're hard to put a

739
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,440
value on it.
And I don't get as much anymore.

740
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,800
I think younger artists get it
more so like the whole like

741
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,080
trade for exposure type thing.
It's like, well, that's tough,

742
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,800
man.
Like it's not going to pay my

743
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,120
bills.
And especially like me, I'm

744
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,680
like, I'm 20 years into this.
Like I, you know, I luckily have

745
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,960
a very good client base that I
have almost no turnover on.

746
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,360
You know, I'm, I'm planning
busy.

747
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,880
I don't need to do like a trade
for exposure type thing.

748
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,840
But so I think sometimes people,
yeah, again, putting a value on

749
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,680
that, you know, all that
learning that somebody's had to

750
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,480
do to learn whatever craft or
artwork they're doing.

751
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,720
Yeah, it's difficult sometimes.
Yeah, man.

752
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,520
Yeah, I don't know, it's I, I
hope it continues to grow.

753
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,560
I've been watching actually
another previous guest.

754
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,240
There's like a, a lot of talk in
Wisconsin about film credits.

755
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:11,400
Have you heard about any of
that?

756
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,360
So like there's a lot of like
tax incentives and and fiscal

757
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,960
incentives in other states.
And one of our previous guests,

758
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,760
Nathan, is, is like doing the,
the roadshow here through like

759
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,760
the legislators or whatever,
like all the people that make

760
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,480
the decisions about that stuff
and saying how like that can

761
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,320
boost areas economically.
And I've seen Wisconsin make a

762
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,520
lot of progress in that area for
quite some time with like cool

763
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,400
art festivals and, and just
things in local communities that

764
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,840
shine a light on it.
And maybe it was something that

765
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,400
when I was younger, it just
wasn't what my eye was looking

766
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,840
for.
Maybe it it existed and I'd

767
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,080
never saw it, but I think it's
awesome to see now.

768
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,960
It seems like it's a growing
space.

769
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,480
I guess I would call, I would
say in the Midwest.

770
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:56,840
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.

771
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,080
I think the Arcs in general in
some ways are are getting

772
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,960
improving like the makers market
type stuff that you see kind of

773
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,880
everywhere now like wasn't
really a thing to the extent it

774
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,400
is now like 10 years ago.
So it's nice that all these

775
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,480
different creatives are having
venues to get their their stuff

776
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,960
out there.
Absolutely.

777
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,480
Yeah.
People probably tried to used to

778
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,920
make you better or used to try
to make bad trades for your fish

779
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,400
decoys, right.
Like, oh, that's super cool.

780
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,360
Here's a, you know, here's an
old Saint Croix rod that's 10

781
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,520
years old.
Yeah, Yeah.

782
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,120
OK.
So towards the end of COVID

783
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:34,360
added the screen printing.
How how does that work?

784
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:40,080
How does that work integrating
as a So let me rephrase as an

785
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:45,840
entrepreneur, how do you decide
where to put your intention and

786
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,400
what are what you're think
you're going to get return on

787
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,200
investment from like in that
scenario?

788
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,000
How do you say, OK, this is a
part I want to integrate into my

789
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,880
business because you were just
saying you've got, you know, a

790
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,280
nice baseline, things are good.
How do you decide when something

791
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,360
should be added?
I mean, for me it's about like

792
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,680
being just that full service.
Like I said, I was designing

793
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,120
like the logos and graphics on
the front end and then I was

794
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,560
having to refer them to like a
screenshot or whatever to like

795
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,040
actually get their things made.
So it's like, well, I can now

796
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,360
make these things for them.
And my first like first few

797
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,080
fishing designs, I had a buddy
that had a screen printing shop

798
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,720
at the time.
So I was sending him that stuff

799
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:25,400
and it's like, what?
Be nice to bring this in house

800
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,840
and be able to do it myself.
And that adds its own level of

801
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,080
trouble there.
You know, there's only so many

802
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,200
hours in a day and it's like,
well, now I'm doing all these

803
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,720
different things.
So there's just, yeah, managing

804
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:38,840
that workload now of like, all
right, I need to dedicate today

805
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,080
to screen printing because
tomorrow I got, you know, a

806
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,960
photo shoot or whatever.
So within the business, it's

807
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,200
just seeing like, yeah, I'm, I'm
outsourcing this thing so now I

808
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,440
can learn this and bring it in
house and it just makes sense

809
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:52,560
that way.
Got it.

810
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,960
Yeah, pretty common growth
strategy.

811
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,880
That's good.
So then with the apparel, are

812
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,760
you trying to like going back to
branding?

813
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:00,920
You were talking about branding
earlier.

814
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,520
Are you trying to make a brand
or is it the like when you

815
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,680
create a cool design, you're
like, oh OK, this makes sense to

816
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,000
put on a shirt because people
will buy it.

817
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,640
Yeah, yeah, it's it makes sense.
Or like I said, I'll do these

818
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,680
fishing Expos and I'll get
crappy guys or trout guys like,

819
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,560
hey, you need more crappy stuff
or whatever.

820
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,560
And it's like, all right, you
know, I get kind of make a

821
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,080
mental note, like, all right, I
got enough requests for this

822
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,680
one, you know, type of thing.
Like I'm going to do something

823
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,560
related to that now and just
kind of keep expanding upon it.

824
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,280
And yeah, as far as like the
brand goes, everything's I'm

825
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,320
making everything like there is
no middle man.

826
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,920
So it's just all Ryan Ebert, you
know, stuff.

827
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,000
So I don't have like, you know,
like you said, your other guys,

828
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,800
you know, is Dorborne or
whatever.

829
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,200
Like for me, it's all just Ryan
Ebert.

830
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,600
Like it's fish decoy.
It's Ryan Ebert fish decoy, it's

831
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,360
Ryan Ebert pale, all that.
And I don't get super heavy as

832
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,400
far as like my name or branding
goes on my apparel.

833
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,000
Like I just have my little logo,
like real small on the back.

834
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,720
And yeah, it's never on like the
front, you know, big and loud

835
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:00,520
and like, like I said, some
graphic.

836
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,480
Fishing apparel, like the logos
are all over the place.

837
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,960
But yeah, for me, it's more like
just cool art.

838
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:07,640
Yeah, that's just what I want to
promote.

839
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:08,760
Absolutely.
Yeah.

840
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,720
Like the fishing jerseys, those
get super loud sometimes.

841
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,840
The fishing jerseys, that's
something somehow I always get

842
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,800
sucked down that rabbit hole on
social media like of someone

843
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,840
like a professional fisherman
wearing their fishing jersey in

844
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,760
like a bass tournament or
something, just like outlandish,

845
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,160
so loud and it's like I always
get sucked in.

846
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,680
It's it's a super entertaining,
but it's just like you said,

847
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,400
it's a different vibe.
It's not like everyday wear, but

848
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,040
still I.
Yeah, I and I get why they got

849
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:37,360
to do that.
You know, a lot of it's like

850
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,000
sponsors and stuff.
But for me that's not just just

851
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,800
not my style.
And like I said, I want to be

852
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,240
able to wear this anywhere and
not feel out of place or

853
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:48,760
whatever.
And again, cool art is my focus.

854
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:57,880
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, man.
So now that you're what it would

855
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,400
be, you know, soon it'll be 10
years, time flies.

856
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,440
Soon it'll be 10 years as an
entrepreneur.

857
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:11,160
When you reflect back on the
decision what, what are your

858
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,080
thoughts on choosing to go on
your own and then do it?

859
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,000
Yeah, I, I tell my wife like I
couldn't imagine doing anything

860
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,320
else or like working for
somebody else.

861
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,440
You know, I've had inquiries
about different things and it's

862
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,960
just like, Nah, I got to keep
doing my own thing and, and set

863
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,040
my own path and doing my own
creative work.

864
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,520
And yeah, I just couldn't, you
couldn't imagine doing anything

865
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:34,880
else.
It's not, it's not easy.

866
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,160
It's a lot of hours and a lot of
nights and weekends and things

867
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,920
like that, especially that's
more trouble, not trouble,

868
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,880
difficult to manage those hours,
you know, the kid and all that.

869
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,320
And, you know, financially, like
it would have made more sense to

870
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,520
say in the private sector and
again, having that steady

871
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,600
paycheck because you don't
always know where a paycheck's

872
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,400
going to come from or like you
got money floating out there and

873
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,200
you're just got to buy equipment
or inventory, you know, or

874
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,680
apparel, things like that.
So there's a lot of stress

875
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,120
there.
But I just, that's, it's my

876
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,040
life.
I mean, that's what I do.

877
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,880
And I couldn't imagine doing
anything else.

878
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,840
Yeah, and I think that's how a
lot of people end up.

879
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,640
I had a really fun conversation
with a friend the other day

880
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:23,000
about, I think a lot of people
that like everybody has that

881
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,080
idea, you know, that you talk
and then you get in conversation

882
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,480
and they're like, I thought
about doing this at one time.

883
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:34,680
So many people have that idea
and a large, large percentage of

884
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,880
those things never come to life.
So our conversation was kind of

885
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,440
revolved around like taking the
deciding to take the step you

886
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,840
did and even being, you know, a
financially conservative person,

887
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,640
you planned and still did it.
Well, of course, there's the

888
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,800
other side of the spectrum,
which I think is the minority of

889
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,880
people who will do it a little
bit more on a whim and then

890
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,160
fail.
And then that's what makes this,

891
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,320
that's what makes it scary, you
know, But those barriers, those

892
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:06,160
things that hold people back
from passions, I think it's

893
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,000
fascinating to talk about
because there, one, there's

894
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,520
really valid arguments on both
sides.

895
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,760
And two, those like those
thoughts that you're saying

896
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,600
like, well, what if something
bad happens?

897
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,960
Like what if this, that's all
super real stuff, like bad

898
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,080
things can happen.
We didn't know there was going

899
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,080
to be a worldwide pandemic.
And luckily you, you, you know,

900
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,560
made it through it, but a lot of
businesses didn't.

901
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,440
And I just think that's a
fascinating conversation about

902
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:40,520
like how to diagnose those
barriers and then circumvent

903
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,960
them to chase your passions,
because there's a lot of folks

904
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,920
that have the idea that don't.
Yeah, I think everybody's got

905
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,240
their own process as far as like
a business goes.

906
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,080
And yeah, for me, growing up
again, without much and being

907
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,640
very frugal and, and very
conscious of not spending money

908
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,400
like, so I've had very slow,
slow growth, you know, as far as

909
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,640
the business goes, like adding
something here and there.

910
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,640
And, and, you know, there's
certainly different methods and

911
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,320
people like, yeah, dive head
first in and spend a lot of

912
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,480
money on, you know, growth and
things like that.

913
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,920
And maybe they get big, but
yeah, sometimes you fall flat on

914
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,400
your face.
And for me, like, yeah, I

915
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,520
couldn't.
Falling on my face wasn't an

916
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,040
option, you know, with the
family and and the home and

917
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,800
things like that.
So I just, yeah, slow and steady

918
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,560
growth has been my route.
Yeah, absolutely.

919
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:31,920
What about what about like the
the farm thinking, does that

920
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,520
type of work still speak to you
at all?

921
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,840
Like do you ever want to have
some animals around the house or

922
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,680
anything when you think back?
It'd be nice to get out to the

923
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,200
country at some point.
Both me and my wife, you know,

924
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,000
grew up out in the country
obviously, and, and we're in

925
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,000
kind of downtown Fort, which
Fort isn't that big of a town,

926
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,760
so it's it's nice.
We're only like 1 house removed

927
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,360
from woods, so we get, you know,
all sorts of critters coming

928
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,360
through our lawn and that's and
that's really nice.

929
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,800
So yeah, getting out to the
country at some point would be

930
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,120
nice.
And I think Kevin, my kid have,

931
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,880
you know, a few animals or
whatever.

932
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,320
I think that's always a good
experience to learn, like to

933
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,000
care for something and see it
grow and kind of learn that

934
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,760
aspect and not be super
disconnected from like, hey,

935
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,200
here's where your food come
from.

936
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,400
I think that's really important.
And yeah, I still get on a ton

937
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,680
of farms, as you know, for
different clients.

938
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,880
So it's it's good to have those
connections.

939
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,960
That's something we talk about
on podcasts a lot, the proximity

940
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:30,360
to food, something I'm Uber
passionate about there and food

941
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,880
that comes from animals,
vegetables, all kinds of food is

942
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,880
just like, you know, it's not
you just go to the grocery store

943
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,320
and it's there.
You know, there's a whole

944
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:46,000
process behind that man.
That's we could go down that

945
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,160
rabbit hole, but it's been it's
been on the podcast a lot.

946
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,600
It was fun last year, like I had
a good deer, deer hunting and

947
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,800
for the first time showing my
kid like, you know, this is what

948
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,120
happens.
We still talk about it and I

949
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,480
like that stuff is super
valuable and lost in some places

950
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,120
I think.
Yeah, my wife jokes that that

951
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,560
was our wedding dowry was her.
They have her family has like a

952
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,360
hard and 40 acres and mostly
like pine trees and stuff farms.

953
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,720
So it's been very good hunting
land since we've, you know, been

954
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:14,760
married and all that.
So, yeah, it's been it's been

955
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,080
fun deer hunting out there and
yeah, just seeing all the

956
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,400
different critters.
Like I said, I've been seeing

957
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,080
more Bobcats and things walk by
and it's kind of neat to just

958
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:22,800
sit out there and experience all
that.

959
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,960
What part of the state is that
in?

960
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,920
Columbia County, so just like an
hour north of Fort, Yeah.

961
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,640
Nice CWD.
Yeah, luckily we haven't had.

962
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,160
I get all my dear tested and I
haven't had anything pop up yet

963
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,480
but I've seen a couple on trail
cams the last couple years that

964
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:41,080
make me a little nervous that
something's going on but haven't

965
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,720
had anything yet.
It's amazing.

966
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,080
Like of course it's not just
going to go away, but like I

967
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,560
feel like I remember and I, I
was probably, it's probably

968
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,040
close to when I started deer
hunting, maybe a little bit

969
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,040
afterwards, like when CWD became
a thing.

970
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,120
And it's just weird to me that
the conversation is still

971
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,800
virtually the same as with.
Yeah, you feel the same.

972
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,480
Yeah, yeah.
Like we're just spending our

973
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,040
tires on as far as any sort of
progress or research goes there.

974
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,200
And I think from my farming
background, and I think I take

975
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,400
it a little more seriously than
some people because I've seen,

976
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,240
you know, different viruses and
things.

977
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:18,800
I can make the jump from an
animal to a person and, you

978
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,160
know, farms get quarantined
because something happens.

979
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,320
It's like, well, it's very, it
hasn't made the jump yet, sure.

980
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,840
But like it's very realistic
that it could, something could

981
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,280
happen.
And I want to be conscious of

982
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:29,520
that, especially now having a
kid.

983
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,640
It's like, well, even if it's
unlikely that, you know, she's

984
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,960
going to eat something and it'll
happen, I still want to get it

985
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,440
tested.
And no, like this.

986
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,680
This meat is safe for her.
Yeah.

987
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:41,880
Absolutely, yeah.
Especially being neurological,

988
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,840
it's like, I don't know, there's
a, there's a lot of layers to

989
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,680
that onion and OK, but I, I got
squirreled by.

990
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:49,960
That yeah, we could get on a
weird tent.

991
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:51,560
There, yeah, and.
Go forever.

992
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,880
Yeah.
So Columbia County, trying to

993
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,920
think, I don't know that I've
spent a ton of time like out of

994
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,440
door places there.
You said it's a heavy pine, your

995
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,280
land is.
Yeah, OK, nice, good.

996
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,760
Like what's the like good
quality deer, good quality bucks

997
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,120
or?
Yeah, I've gotten some very,

998
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:17,800
very nice ones over the years.
And we're kind of it's an older

999
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,760
property.
So they're on one side was an

1000
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,840
old gravel pit and then there's
rural tracks, there's the

1001
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,600
pipeline that comes through and
then a power line.

1002
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,400
So like all these, it's kind of
unsightly in the moment, but it

1003
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,160
makes these natural funnels for
the animals like they have to

1004
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:34,840
come through the property a
certain way.

1005
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,400
Nice.
And so I've kind of learned

1006
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,320
those to your patterns well and
it's allowed me to get some some

1007
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,080
pretty nice animals and.
It looks like it on Instagram

1008
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,080
access points too.
That makes, I think a lot of

1009
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:50,160
times, I mean that for I like
bow hunting a lot and access is

1010
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,240
really important because you
want to try to like if I know

1011
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:56,760
there's a good deer there within
like 300 yards, like access is a

1012
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,320
little fishy.
You got to get to it the right

1013
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,400
way.
You have to, you know, not be

1014
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,280
too loud.
Wind's got to be right.

1015
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,280
And a lot of times that stuff on
property makes it a little bit

1016
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,240
easier to do.
And I'm, I'm a very, my wife

1017
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:11,240
would agree with this, like very
stubborn person too.

1018
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:14,680
So I'll sit there like until I,
you know, freeze and whatever

1019
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,480
the conditions are and like sit
there until like something walks

1020
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,800
across and I get it.
And so, yeah, some of my nicest

1021
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,400
deer, I've been sitting there
just freezing to death and it's

1022
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,200
like the day after Thanksgiving
or something.

1023
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,800
And also, no, there's that nice
buck.

1024
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,480
I've been finally waiting for my
first surgeon.

1025
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,280
Like that was a super long
season.

1026
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,360
It was like day 14 of the season
and I'd been going up driving

1027
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,800
like the two hour drive every
morning to go up and go sit at

1028
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,480
least for that day.
And, yeah, Day 14, I finally got

1029
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,160
one that had come through and
I'd kind of given up hope.

1030
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,720
I was going to go up to the
Marinette and go, I'll do this

1031
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:49,360
veterans outing, take some guys
out Spearing, Pike Spearing.

1032
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,000
And then, yeah, I had one
finally come through and that

1033
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,280
was when I got my first surgeon.
So yeah, I just, I think it

1034
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,560
helps to be stubborn when it
comes to the outdoors.

1035
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,600
And, you know, you'll finally
got to have something come

1036
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:00,680
through eventually.
Yeah.

1037
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,040
Stubbornly patient.
Yeah.

1038
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:03,440
Yeah.
Yeah, let's talk about that a

1039
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:04,680
little bit.
Just because it's something that

1040
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,240
I don't do.
I like sturgeon Spearing.

1041
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,000
Is northern Spearing?
Is that illegal in Wisconsin?

1042
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,920
Lake Superior waters, you can go
for Pike, but really like if

1043
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,240
you're into it, you're going to
go to Minnesota or Michigan.

1044
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:22,520
Pretty much every ice belt state
other than Wisconsin has like a

1045
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,000
statewide season for it.
And I'm part of a group that

1046
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,640
we've been trying to get it here
in Wisconsin for a number of

1047
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,440
years.
We got really close like 2 years

1048
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,760
ago.
We did the whole DNR process of

1049
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,920
submitting a citizen resolution.
And then that went through all

1050
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,120
the like warm water committee
and things like that and got it

1051
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,000
on the April spring DNR
hearings.

1052
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,840
And then it was like an even
split of yes, no.

1053
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,200
And then for some reason they
have a no opinion option.

1054
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,920
So it was like 33 percent, 33%
and 33%.

1055
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,920
There's a no opinion.
Yes.

1056
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:59,080
So it was an even split there.
And then I have some connections

1057
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,240
and guys that I know that are in
support of Pike Spearing, Dark

1058
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:07,400
House Spearing in the
conservation Congress, which is

1059
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,320
like each county has an elected
official for that.

1060
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:12,800
So then we overwhelmingly passed
in that.

1061
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,240
And then at that point, it was
supposed to go to our natural

1062
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:19,000
resources board, which is like
the final step of the process of

1063
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,200
like getting a new season or law
as far as outdoor goes.

1064
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,200
And then it never got submitted
to them.

1065
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,320
So then I talked to the DNR and
finally got the response from

1066
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,600
them was they're worried about
user conflict, which is Muskies.

1067
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,800
Muskie guys are super not in
support of it for the most part

1068
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,280
because they're worried about
that a muskie might accidentally

1069
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,600
get taken.
Which if you look at other

1070
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,520
states that have Pike and muskie
and Pike Spearing like it's just

1071
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,800
not, not a problem.
Or there's ways around it.

1072
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,240
Yeah, they they look different
in the water.

1073
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:52,760
They act differently in the
water.

1074
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,080
And there's ways around it too.
Like there's plenty of lakes

1075
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,360
that don't have muskies in and
just a little hammer handle

1076
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,360
Pike.
Like there's ways to circumvent

1077
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,080
that.
But so that continues to be our

1078
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,000
opposition to it here in
Wisconsin.

1079
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,640
And so, yeah, usually when I'm
going, I'm going up to Upper

1080
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,320
Michigan or I go over to
Minnesota with some other decoy

1081
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:11,960
carvers and go Spearing over
there.

1082
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,720
OK, yeah, well, we got to dig
into this a little bit because

1083
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:16,480
there's a lot of stuff I want to
ask about here.

1084
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:23,240
This one which, which of those
decision maker groups had a had

1085
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:25,320
a like a no decision.
They could just choose not to

1086
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,520
choose.
That's like a it's like a state

1087
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,840
board, a state authority, or is
it within the Don?

1088
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:33,040
The public does their spring
hearing voting.

1089
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,640
Yeah, it was yes, no or no
opinion are your options on all

1090
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:36,240
the.
Questions.

1091
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,640
The public, Yeah.
So the public can vote.

1092
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,320
No opinion.
That I understand a little more.

1093
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,760
Yeah, I thought.
This is so weird that it's like

1094
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,720
no there is an option for no
opinion and and in my in my

1095
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:50,200
opinion, a no opinion means
you're fine with it.

1096
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,800
Like you don't really care like
if there's a season.

1097
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,080
So I kind of weight that more in
the yes category, but I'm a

1098
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,960
little bit biased there, but.
Yeah, maybe 'cause I can at

1099
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:03,840
least I can see that.
I can see somebody so far

1100
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,600
removed from it that like, you
don't care one way or the other.

1101
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,600
But you could see how that could
get a little squirrely if like

1102
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,200
'cause so much of life is about
lobbying and storytelling, that

1103
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,360
like then it turns into can you
convince the people who don't

1104
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:19,400
care?
So I kind of get that.

1105
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,000
I thought it was like a board of
decision makers of like state

1106
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,080
DNR or something like got a no
opinion on.

1107
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,200
Absentee or whatever, Yeah.
Yeah, pay me and then tell me

1108
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,280
that I can be right, wrong or
just not even care.

1109
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,040
Yeah, but the Muskie thing is
interesting.

1110
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,800
So I'm assuming it sounds, and I
think you said this in there,

1111
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:45,280
overwhelmingly the the average
sportsman of Wisconsin is OK

1112
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,440
with it or even advocates for
it.

1113
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,920
Yeah, like I said, it was like
1/5, well even split across for

1114
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,040
the public voting went and then
yeah, we went to the

1115
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,800
conservation Congress.
We overwhelmingly were voted yes

1116
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,920
there.
And yeah, and I get what their

1117
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:03,040
concerns are, but also that sort
of thing frustrates me so much.

1118
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,640
And outdoors, like our own
infighting amongst outdoorsmen,

1119
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,400
like I'm so into this, you know,
one species that I feel like any

1120
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,760
other thing might, you know,
deter from that.

1121
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,480
And really, it's not like we're
all in this together.

1122
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,080
We're all conservationists.
We all care about, you know, the

1123
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,160
things we're after.
And, you know, at the end of the

1124
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,920
day, we're all following those
harvest regulations for whatever

1125
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,440
we're after.
And like, we're not going to

1126
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,600
break the laws regardless of
method to take.

1127
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,000
So it it's very frustrating to
have those conversations

1128
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,000
sometimes.
And it's like we have enough

1129
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,800
outside groups that don't want
certain aspects of hunting or

1130
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,080
trapping or fishing.
We don't need to fight amongst

1131
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,280
ourselves and and keep another
user group down just because we

1132
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,840
worried about, you know,
whatever species we're after.

1133
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,240
I completely agree.
Completely agree 100%.

1134
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:57,600
The often times the arguments
are from one, they a lot of

1135
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,720
times they hold no weight.
And another, another angle is

1136
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:05,240
that a lot of times they're come
from this place of like personal

1137
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,320
protection, like this is my
resource and that could hurt.

1138
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,640
Was it like the musky argument?
I mean, the person's thinking

1139
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,440
like, oh, this fish is more
important than another fish or

1140
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,600
your type of, you know, fun or
outdoors recreation.

1141
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,320
So this should take precedence.
I completely agree.

1142
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,560
That happens in the outdoor
industry so much.

1143
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,320
One thing I'll say is that from
what I know of the Conservation

1144
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,400
Congress, I think they do a good
job of representing the

1145
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,040
sportsman holistically, from
what I've seen and heard, given

1146
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,080
that's not that expansive.
So I'm not an expert, but

1147
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,200
unsurprisingly, I think they do.
You know, they do a good job of

1148
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,200
which they should.
It's kind of their gig.

1149
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,680
But to represent the voice of
the sportsman in general, Yeah.

1150
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,800
So it sounds like that's, have
you seen any of this stuff about

1151
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,080
the public lands being sold in
Utah and stuff?

1152
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,280
Yeah.
So I'm part of BHA and I did the

1153
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,360
BHA rendezvous in Minneapolis
last year with all my decoys and

1154
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:04,960
stuff like that, OK.
So I'm very connected to a lot

1155
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,280
of those guys and yeah, see
what's going on and.

1156
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,560
What a nightmare, dude.
Yeah, what a nightmare.

1157
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,240
Unbelievable that it's even.
Being considered.

1158
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:17,040
Yeah, yeah.
And like, I don't know, and I

1159
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,800
love that I'm seeing like,
humongous names in the outdoor

1160
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,680
industry jump on 'cause it's
easy for them to turn a blind

1161
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,560
eye.
But like, big, big names are

1162
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,400
like just making very candid
social media posts about how how

1163
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,280
terrible this would be to
happen.

1164
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:39,720
And it would just set such a
nightmare precedent, man.

1165
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,840
And I think I don't know where
that stands today.

1166
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:47,400
I didn't.
Yeah, I'm not.

1167
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,560
Sure, where it's at right now.
I know they're still, yeah, I

1168
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,400
think fighting over it.
And yeah, as far as big name

1169
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,880
goes, yeah, I've seen like all
the meat eater guy, like I got

1170
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,120
connected to them actually
through my decoys and they've

1171
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,240
been nice to like share some of
our Pike Experian efforts here

1172
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,680
and talk about some of my work
and did like their fishing

1173
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,760
podcast.
But yeah, I've seen like Ryan

1174
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,240
Callahan.
Yeah, talking about that.

1175
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:09,720
And as far as Montana goes, I
know they've sold a bunch of

1176
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:14,120
acres and the, and the name of
like low income housing or

1177
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,720
whatever, but then he's like,
well, really, they sold, I might

1178
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,760
be getting these numbers wrong,
but it was like 18,000 acres and

1179
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,160
they've only developed, I think
it was like 40 acres.

1180
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,560
And it's all second homes for
people.

1181
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,040
It's not going actually towards
like low income housing.

1182
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,880
So yeah, they try to justify it
with some of these things and

1183
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,360
it's like, no, that ends up not
being what it's actually used

1184
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,080
for.
And now that public land is

1185
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,280
just, it's gone forever.
And you know you can't get it

1186
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,240
back once once it's gone.
That's the thing, man.

1187
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,160
That's the thing.
Once it's gone, it's gone.

1188
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:48,640
And I think I'm not, I'm not
nearly as well versed about like

1189
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,880
what public lands are like
globally, but I think we're kind

1190
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,400
of a Unicorn in a sense that we
have more than most other

1191
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,360
places.
And I think it stems back to

1192
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:00,920
like Teddy Roosevelt days and
stuff.

1193
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:01,840
You hear that?
You hear that.

1194
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:07,720
But like, that's why I don't get
the whole like, why it's even

1195
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,840
considered.
It's like, OK, sure, once this

1196
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,840
is or sure, like there's money
here.

1197
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,680
And yeah, you can get in the
valid argument of like housing,

1198
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,200
it is an issue.
But there's a million other ways

1199
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:24,000
to address that issue other
than, you know, go to the

1200
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,600
furthest extreme, build a, build
a house that looks at Mount

1201
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:29,880
Rushmore.
Like there's way better ways

1202
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,600
that that can happen.
So what a what a nightmare.

1203
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,040
I can't remember how we got on
that topic right now, but that's

1204
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:37,760
something that's been on my mind
a lot lately.

1205
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:38,960
I've been seeing a lot of those
videos.

1206
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,120
I did see the Callahan thing.
Did you say you were on their

1207
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,200
podcast?
The Bent Pod was their fishing

1208
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,880
podcast for a number of years.
Yeah, I did that with Joe

1209
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,120
Cermelli and Hayden Samic.
Yeah.

1210
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,160
OK, cool.
I'm just talking about decoys.

1211
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,440
And then, yeah, some of them got
found my work like pretty much

1212
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,720
probably like you did through
Instagram or whatever and have

1213
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,760
some of my decoys and they've
been in like weirdly in a couple

1214
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,720
of their videos and stuff
they've done and.

1215
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,000
Yeah, yeah.
I thought the you know what,

1216
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,600
they have a ton of cool little
offshoots.

1217
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,240
The one I thought was cool I I
think they called it back 40.

1218
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,920
They did that 40 acres in
Michigan where they turned it.

1219
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,400
Up in the deer hunting property,
Yeah, yeah.

1220
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,880
Talk about resonating with like
your everyday hunter.

1221
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,320
Like, that's what you can do.
You buy 40 acres.

1222
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,280
You try to, you know, turn it
into whatever you can.

1223
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,320
But he faced the same challenges
that most of us do, you know,

1224
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,640
like neighbors are shooting
deer, neighbor that you wouldn't

1225
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,680
shoot or whatever and making
noise, whatever, blah, blah,

1226
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:32,680
blah.
You only have 40 acres.

1227
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:34,160
I thought that was a really cool
series.

1228
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,680
But they've done it, man.
I can only aspire to do some of

1229
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,480
the positive change that they've
done in in any industry, but

1230
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,160
they're specifically in the
outdoor industry.

1231
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,800
Like, it's awesome that they're
to the point where Callahan does

1232
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,920
make a, an Instagram video that
hopefully sways some opinions

1233
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:56,240
and says, don't sell this land.
Cause like, I know, well, look

1234
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,400
at Wisconsin.
That's an ever, ever going

1235
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,520
conversation between
stakeholders on both sides of

1236
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,400
like access for trout streams
and stuff like that, where, you

1237
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,480
know, our DNR has done a great
job of getting a lot of easement

1238
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,960
access to places.
And then you'll be in the stream

1239
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,880
and like a landowner will just
be a complete mean person to you

1240
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,440
about it.
And it's like, OK, well, what's

1241
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,800
your thing that then?
You don't want to be infringed

1242
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,160
on, you know what I mean?
And because the more those go

1243
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,800
away, the more we lose them.
Yeah, yeah.

1244
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,440
I think it sends back to the
yeah, that infighting and trying

1245
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,040
to take ownership of species or
land and things like that, and

1246
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,280
yeah, just yeah, it doesn't make
sense to fight amongst ourselves

1247
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,360
and in those scenarios and 100.
Percent, yeah.

1248
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,000
Tell me more about the Spearing
thing, though.

1249
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,720
I want to learn about it.
So like you do, you do Sturgeon

1250
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:47,880
and.
Pike.

1251
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,640
Yep, Yep.
I mean, Winnebago sturgeon

1252
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,640
Spearing is storied, but like,
what?

1253
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,720
What's what's first?
What's your draw to it?

1254
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,280
What brought you into it other
than having your friends do it?

1255
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:06,200
Yeah, I I love the winter time
and it kind of bums me out.

1256
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,200
We don't have the winters we
used to, but right.

1257
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,760
I, I just, I, I'm one of those
people that really doesn't like

1258
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,680
summer.
You know, I hate bugs, hate

1259
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,520
being hot.
So I love winter and I love like

1260
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,080
that quiet solitude of winter
and everything's very peaceful

1261
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,400
and, and just being outdoors
and, and then yeah, for me,

1262
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,240
Experian, it's the functional
art of it.

1263
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,600
Not only the decoys, but then
the Spears themselves are, are

1264
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,240
all handmade, You know, they're
not being like mass produced by

1265
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,560
some big company.
It's some dude, you know,

1266
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,600
welding and, you know,
blacksmithing these things.

1267
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,800
So I think those aspects are
really cool.

1268
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,480
So yeah, I just, and it's neat
to have something that I made

1269
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,720
that brings in this this fish
and, and seeing all that.

1270
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:50,840
And so, yeah, going up to
Michigan in the winter months

1271
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,080
and, and hanging with my friends
on the ice and yeah, I had some

1272
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:58,520
really cool experiences.
And we'll go on a little

1273
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,240
tangent.
Probably my favorite experience

1274
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,400
story as far as Pike goes,
outside of my own personal best

1275
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:08,360
getting a 40 incher.
I used to go do winter camping

1276
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:10,640
on this one kind of remote lake
in the UP.

1277
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:15,920
So the year I left my job, 2018,
we were going to go that winter.

1278
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,480
We had like good ice.
It was like mid-december.

1279
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,400
I went up on a Thursday evening,
stayed with my one buddy and

1280
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,200
Marinette had a few too many
beers so I was dragging a little

1281
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:25,520
bit in the morning, but I hit
the ice.

1282
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,040
I was by myself like right
before dawn.

1283
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,160
They were going to meet me after
they got done work and we were

1284
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,240
going to camp.
This lake, it's like 400 acres.

1285
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,840
It's got 2 little islands on it.
You got to drive like a mile and

1286
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,960
a half back on this logging Rd.
So it's it's pretty remote and

1287
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,160
there's like 4 little cabins on
it.

1288
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,240
But they're clearly just summer,
summer cabins.

1289
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,240
I've never seen somebody out
there in the winter.

1290
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:50,560
So I go back and it's very early
ice and this lake has a lot of

1291
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:52,640
natural spring.
So I always try to go this one

1292
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,880
way out and that way wasn't snow
covered at all.

1293
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,480
Like we got in dusting the snow
like 2 nights before.

1294
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,200
And I'm like, I think that's
really new ice.

1295
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:03,360
And I didn't feel good going
that way.

1296
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,200
So I went to the right and you
know, sputting my whole way out.

1297
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,120
Get out to where I wanted to go
next to this one island,

1298
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:13,200
probably about a mile out, walk
out and I'm out there.

1299
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,280
I'm like trying to get set up,
figuring out where I'm going to

1300
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,480
go.
And I look across the lake and I

1301
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,680
see this dark black object
walking and I'm like, what the

1302
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:23,800
heck is that?
And at first I thought it was a

1303
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,240
wolf because it was like taking
these weird, like long strides.

1304
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,480
And I thought I saw a tail and
it was just far enough away.

1305
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,320
And then I realized I'm like,
oh, it's a black bear out on the

1306
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,440
ice.
And I'm like, what the heck is

1307
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:38,560
this thing doing out there?
And you know, as a photographer,

1308
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,120
I always got some sort of camera
on me.

1309
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,720
So I had a very nice point and
shoot and I like set it up and

1310
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,280
I'm taking some pictures and
little video.

1311
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,760
And I call my one buddy that I'd
stayed with and he works at a

1312
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,880
winery up in Pesh to go.
And I'm like, hey, there's a

1313
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,880
black bear on the ice.
And he didn't actually answer.

1314
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,120
So I just left this voicemail,
which he saved 'cause he thinks

1315
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:58,720
it's so funny, 'cause of the
tone of my voice.

1316
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:02,000
And like just you can tell I'm
really like amped and like don't

1317
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,360
know what's going on.
And after I realized this

1318
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,720
thing's walking towards me and
I'm like, what is going on?

1319
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,840
So I start yelling at it and I'm
cleaning my spear and auger and

1320
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:13,600
stuff, just trying to make a
bunch of noise and he keeps

1321
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,800
walking at me.
Like I said, it's early ice.

1322
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,480
So I'm like I don't know which
way is safe to get off.

1323
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,120
The way he's walking is the
exact way I took out and behind

1324
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,600
me is just marshland.
I'm like, I'm sure that's not

1325
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,120
like locked up in any way for me
to get out of here.

1326
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,800
And so I'm just like, got to
stand my ground and keep yelling

1327
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,840
at him.
He gets within about 10 yards of

1328
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,040
me and he finally like stops and
he's looking at me and I'm just

1329
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:40,920
like ready to fight this bear.
And he just stops and he finally

1330
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,480
goes up onto the island.
Then I'm going to camp and I'm

1331
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,280
like, all right, I'm not camping
and I'm not staying here.

1332
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,080
So I just throw all my stuff
back on my sled and make record

1333
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:53,880
time getting out of there.
And oh, to backtrack just a tiny

1334
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:58,080
bit, my 1 warden buddy, I called
him to thinking like, hey, maybe

1335
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,640
he's got some good advice for me
to like, get this bear to stop

1336
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,520
beyond just yelling at it.
And he just tells me the same

1337
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,840
things I'm already doing.
And then he ends with, hey, if

1338
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,560
you die, can I get all your
decoys?

1339
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,760
And I can hear my other body in
the background just laughing his

1340
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,280
head off.
I'm like, you're not at all

1341
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:16,000
helpful here.
So yeah, I finally get out of

1342
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,280
there, book it out, keep looking
over my shoulder, and I can see

1343
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,080
this bear just wandering on the
island.

1344
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,960
So I stayed through the weekend
and we went to some other lakes

1345
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,920
the next day.
And then we came back two days

1346
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:30,400
later and with my warden buddy
always retired at the time now.

1347
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,800
And we walk out and this thing
is just sleeping basically where

1348
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:36,880
I had left it out on the ice,
like on the edge of this island.

1349
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,400
So we took some pictures with it
and stuff and we let the

1350
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,640
Michigan DNR know like, hey,
there's this bear that's acting

1351
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:44,960
kind of weird.
And his theory was it was

1352
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,400
probably like a 2 1/2 year old
bear, like maybe it's first

1353
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,400
winter out on its own and it was
kind of like a little bit warmer

1354
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:52,880
weekend.
So he's like probably just woke

1355
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:56,200
up from hibernating and was just
really confused and groggy and,

1356
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:58,920
and wandering around.
And yeah, I was just, well, I

1357
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,040
don't care how young or whatever
is going on.

1358
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:02,680
Like I did not want to wrestle
with it.

1359
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:04,920
So that actually inspired my
very first shirt design.

1360
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,560
I did.
It was like me holding a spear

1361
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:12,880
like to this bear or whatever.
And yeah, it's just fun, unique

1362
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,920
story that you wouldn't get
otherwise if you're just sitting

1363
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:16,520
in your house in the middle of
the winter.

1364
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:18,120
But.
That's the reason to go outside,

1365
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,040
yeah.
And that's so classic, Yeah.

1366
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,920
Crazy, though.
So first ice, you were in the

1367
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,480
UV.
Was it like November and like.

1368
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:31,840
It's mid mid-december, so
Michigan, their season runs from

1369
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,320
December 1st to March 15th.
OK, got it.

1370
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,400
For Pike Spearing, yeah.
Yeah, talk about weird man.

1371
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,520
And like, what did it do?
You said it got within 10 years.

1372
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,200
Did it pay you any mind or did
it just walk by and?

1373
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,680
It definitely like acknowledged
me that I was there and, you

1374
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,680
know, I don't like I said I was
going to go camping, so I had

1375
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,720
some food in the cooler and I'm
like, I don't know if it was

1376
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:55,680
maybe winning that or something.
And yeah, I I definitely yelled

1377
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,360
every curse word I could think
of at it and just thought for

1378
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,440
sure I was going to have to
wrestle with this bear.

1379
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,200
And yeah.
At least at that time of year.

1380
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:04,960
If it was groggy, maybe you had
a shot.

1381
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,040
Who?
Knows yeah I was groggy too like

1382
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,880
I said I had a few made two
beverages the night before and

1383
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,240
yeah when we saw it like 2 days
later I'm like I definitely

1384
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:15,640
didn't you know even a young
bear like that thing's still got

1385
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,280
some good claws and as far as
weight goes I'm like I'm sure

1386
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,400
it's pretty close to what I
weigh and and.

1387
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,000
You said it was two days later
when you went back and was still

1388
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,080
just sleeping.
There, Yeah yeah, very much

1389
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,440
alive.
So now I, I revamped, yeah,

1390
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:29,840
I've, I've because we took
pictures, like I said in some

1391
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:34,520
video clips and I, you know, did
that first shirt design and I'd

1392
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,280
put that picture of like us by
this bear and everybody's like,

1393
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:38,920
oh, this bear.
Why you got this picture of this

1394
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:39,920
dead bear?
I'm like, it's alive.

1395
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:41,760
So I had to like write spares
alive.

1396
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,920
And I just revamped that design,
actually just a couple months

1397
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:46,600
ago.
So everybody looks at it and

1398
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,720
they see, oh, it's alive.
And then I, you know, tell them

1399
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:50,360
the story.
And yeah.

1400
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,320
What a classic story, man.
Yeah, Yeah.

1401
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,000
So I mean, it's like most
things, right?

1402
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,560
Every.
And that's what makes it so

1403
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,000
interesting.
Not to digress or go back to a

1404
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:02,920
previous topic, but that's the
reason it makes it so

1405
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:04,960
interesting that there is so
much bickering inside the

1406
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:09,320
outdoor community.
Because you know, that story

1407
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:15,440
with you going to ice Spearing
is the same as somebody that

1408
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,560
goes trout fishing in the summer
or somebody that bow hunts a lot

1409
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,279
or somebody that loves trolling
for salmon in Lake MI.

1410
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:25,359
Like it's always to get those
kind of stories.

1411
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,080
Yeah, you know we.
Just want to be outdoors and as

1412
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,000
far as like if you want to
actually put like fillets in

1413
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,960
your freezer, like dark house
spraying is the least efficient

1414
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,479
method you can do.
You know, the common saying for

1415
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,600
sturgeon spraying is you're duck
hunting out a chimney.

1416
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,760
You know, you're on this massive
lake and you cut this, you know,

1417
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:45,080
3 by 4 foot hole.
Well, that's where that fish

1418
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:48,319
needs to come through on this,
you know, bag goes like what,

1419
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:52,120
160,000 acres or something.
So you're just praying that this

1420
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,000
fish is going to come through
this little hole, that you're

1421
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,160
going to trick it with this
decoy you've made or whatever

1422
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,520
you've got down.
You know, the same goes for Pike

1423
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:02,520
like plenty of times, like I can
see a Pike kind of just floating

1424
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,200
outside the hole looking at my
decoy, but there's nothing I can

1425
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,160
do about that fish because it's
way outside my range.

1426
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,600
And I'll have guys that'll set
up tip UPS around me and they're

1427
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,520
just hammering away at the Pike.
You know, if I really wanted to

1428
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,120
put fillets in the freezer, I'd
go with my buddies, you know, 3

1429
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:20,680
tip up lines a guy and cover,
you know, a couple acres and tip

1430
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,640
up lines versus this little 4
foot window I'm trying to get a

1431
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,680
fish out of.
So, you know, I can see a lot of

1432
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,560
fish, but you know, at the end
of the season I maybe I'm

1433
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,760
getting like 4, you know, Pike
or whatever.

1434
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,200
We're not putting a hit on, you
know, any sort of population.

1435
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,000
There is no biological impact as
far as that goes.

1436
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,880
And yeah, you got to have good
ice obviously to get out there,

1437
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:42,200
but then you got to have clarity
too.

1438
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,600
So a lot of lakes kind of get
eliminated right there because

1439
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,160
it's like, well, if it's super
iron stained water and I can't

1440
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:51,359
see the fish, it doesn't do me
any good to sit there and stare

1441
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,640
at pea soup like you're doing on
bagel.

1442
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,320
You don't have a choice because
it's like, well, that is that is

1443
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,120
the season.
It's a 16 day season and

1444
01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:59,960
whatever the conditions are,
that's it.

1445
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,600
And we haven't been hitting the
harvest cap, you know, the last

1446
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,360
few years because it's been
either bad ice or bad water

1447
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,560
clarity.
Like this last season we had OK

1448
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:11,200
ice, but it's just pea soup and
you know, we could see maybe

1449
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,920
like 3 feet and 18 feet of water
while they're a bottom feeder

1450
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,560
fish.
And it's really unlikely you're

1451
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,840
going to get them to come up.
It does happen.

1452
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,440
But you know, you're just
sitting on a hope and a prayer.

1453
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:24,160
So that's why the success rate
on bagel is usually like 4 to

1454
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,160
5%.
And then upriver, even the last

1455
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:27,360
few years hasn't been that
great.

1456
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,800
But upriver tends to be like 60%
success rate just because it's

1457
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:32,920
it's shallower.
You can usually see more and

1458
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,680
they're kind of staging up there
a little more densely populated,

1459
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:36,440
but.
Sure.

1460
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,080
Yeah, I'm glad you bring that up
because I think that's a good

1461
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,280
way to kind of circle in the
rest of that conversation about,

1462
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,920
you know, the pushback to it
because it seems like that that

1463
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,160
would be my take on it.
Like one, each individual person

1464
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:53,880
isn't going to take many.
And then I just don't see it

1465
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:57,800
being something that like the
masses would take up overnight.

1466
01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:59,440
It's kind of a unique thing to
do.

1467
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:02,160
Yeah, I get a lot of guys when I
do like, especially in

1468
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:04,800
Minnesota, I do a couple shows
there and I get guys that ask me

1469
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,200
about Sturgeon Spear.
And it's like hire a guide.

1470
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,080
Cuz if you don't know somebody
directly that's gonna take you

1471
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:12,880
out, it's a very hard thing to
get into.

1472
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,400
And and you know, it's already
hard to have success.

1473
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:17,880
So if you're just blindly going
out there, at least hire a

1474
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,360
guide, you know, that's doing
some scouting and that's going

1475
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,880
to up your chances and they'll
show you like here's how you cut

1476
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:24,440
the hole.
Here's how you push the cake,

1477
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:27,320
which is the ice block down.
And here's how you set up your

1478
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,760
shack and make it dark, you
know, pack snow and all that

1479
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,280
around it.
And yeah, you got to learn it

1480
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,680
somewhere.
And yeah, for me, I've luckily

1481
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:36,840
had people that, you know,
showed me the ropes to get

1482
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:38,880
started.
And now I try to pass it on and

1483
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,520
bring new people out and.
And yeah, you're not just gonna

1484
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,320
dive into it.
You can't go to Cabela's and

1485
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,280
buy, you know, all the gear like
anything else.

1486
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,040
And.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1487
01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:52,360
Is is Pike Spearing
significantly different?

1488
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,600
A little.
There's a ton of crossover as

1489
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,600
far as the hole and the shack
goes.

1490
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:01,160
The decoys are a little bit
different.

1491
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:02,760
They tend to be a little more
realistic.

1492
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:05,560
You tend to move them a bit more
like swimming more versus

1493
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:07,320
Sturgeon.
They're bigger, brighter, more

1494
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,600
colorful.
Most sturgeon guys are kind of

1495
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,280
leaving them just hanging there.
I think part of that stems from

1496
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,320
a lot of the guys that around
Bagel aren't trying to make them

1497
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,960
swim or they don't necessarily
know how to make a decoy swim.

1498
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,160
So when a lot of guys get decoys
from me and I tell them at

1499
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:23,240
swims, they kind of look at me
funny and then they go that

1500
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,280
first season they're like, oh, I
get it.

1501
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,400
Like there's actually action to
this decoy and they'll move it

1502
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,720
some and, and a lot of the
times, you know, I've only

1503
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,720
gotten one, but I've been with a
couple buddies while they've

1504
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:35,720
gotten them.
And, you know, I'm swimming that

1505
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:37,120
decoy.
I'll jig it once.

1506
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,640
It kind of seems like once it
comes to a stop, then that's

1507
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:41,960
when that sturgeon comes in.
And, you know, they're not like

1508
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:43,080
a Pike.
They're not trying to eat it.

1509
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:45,000
They're just curious.
So they'll come in and like kind

1510
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:46,920
of nudge it with their nose and
look at it.

1511
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:50,280
And so I think that action does
help, help a bit with sturgeon.

1512
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:53,960
Yeah, yeah.
OK, yeah, that's fascinating,

1513
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:55,640
man.
Something I want to try someday.

1514
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:57,960
I want to try everything.
Sunday.

1515
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:00,440
Yeah, too far from here in in
Green Bay.

1516
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,280
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
Well, it was great chatting with

1517
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,840
you, man.
Thanks for thanks for filling us

1518
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,640
in on some of your passions and
and some of the things you do.

1519
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:12,960
I I don't doubt that I'm going
to be a fish decoy purchaser

1520
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,640
customer someday because I don't
know, they're just cool like I

1521
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,760
said, and I think my wife will
let me have one in the house.

1522
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:20,200
Yeah, that's always important.
Yeah.

1523
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,480
Yeah, I really appreciate you
having me on and talking, Yeah,

1524
01:13:23,480 --> 01:13:25,920
a little bit about everything I
do and interests and all that.

1525
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:27,440
Yeah, Thanks man.
Thanks.