Matty Day - Music and Writing, Creativity, and Career Reflection - Ep. #8

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Yeah, they did this.
I don't know.

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They're they're like, they're
pretty good at rolling it out

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like they've been all over Jimmy
Fallon.

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Mick Jagger was on Saturday
Night Live last Saturday and

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like, yeah.
So have you seen them live?

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Twice.
And then a third time I went to

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go see them in Las Vegas and our
plane landed.

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I turned on my phone and like, a
friend had texted me like, dude,

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I'm so sorry.
I'm like, what?

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It was like the concert was
cancelled.

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Like, we found out as the plane
landed, like, like during our

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flight they had canceled the
concert.

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So it's just like, you know,
granted, there are worse places

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to be with, nothing to do.
With your plans to fall.

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Yeah, yeah.
But it was like, maybe I was

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like reaching for, you know,
glory one too many times or

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something like that.
Like seeing them once was like,

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all right, that's that's it.
And then like a second time was

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it was because they were playing
in DC.

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My sister lived there and it was
just like an excuse to go visit

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her.
And then the third time was like

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maybe a little greedy.
Yeah, was it?

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Was it as impressive live as
Build?

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Like that's supposed to be an
amazing show that just even Mix

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singularly puts on.
Yeah, well, like when I was a

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kid, I I, it was like, my brain
thought that I had seen The

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Rolling Stones, 'cause when I
was maybe 10 or 12, my parents

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had taken me to an IMAX concert
of them.

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And I think just like the
immersive IMAX experience had

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just kind of, like tricked my
brain into like, thinking that I

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had seen them and it was like, I
don't know.

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But then to actually see them,
it was like, yeah, it was

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glorious, man.
It was, it was so good.

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Like that that 2005 album was
pretty darn good.

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And like so like, all the songs
they played were rad.

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And it was just, it was just
surreal.

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Like the stage came out to the
middle of the stadium at one

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point and I'm like 30 feet from
them.

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And it was just cool.
I was there with my mom, dad and

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sisters.
Like it was a full family thing

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and it was rad.
Is the is the whole family

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Stones fan?
Mostly my dad, but yeah, my mom

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takes them too.
And my sister and I like, send

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each other like old footage,
like every day.

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The Internet is just so great,
man.

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Like you you get on some
Instagram account, like fan

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account.
It's just like every single day

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there's some weird little
interview clip that would have

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been lost to history.
But you know, yeah.

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It is weird thinking about that
Beatles versus Stones thing.

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It does seem like you like and
there's no reason why you have.

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To it was it was marketing man
back then it was like they they

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kind of played it off each
other.

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You know, it's like Coke versus
Pepsi.

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Like big cola wins, You know,
like at the time it was Stones

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or Beatles.
Like, they both win.

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So yeah, yeah, but they were
always friends.

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Paul McCartney, in fact, plays
on a song on the new album.

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Oh really?
Yeah.

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Cool.
Which is like, I don't know

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significant historically.
You know, I, yeah, I heard he

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kind of rocks on it.
So, OK, we'll see.

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So.
Does that like, how long have

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you been playing music?
Since I was, my parents got me a

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guitar at like a a silent
auction when I was 8, an

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acoustic guitar.
And then I took lessons on that

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for a year.
If I got through that, it was

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like then they would buy me an
electric guitar.

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I've got to show that I was
committed and so started out

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playing like Michael rode the
boat ashore.

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It's, you know, just simple
stuff.

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And then I got to a guy who was
like, I could bring in ACD and

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he would slow it down and figure
out how to play and then teach

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me how to play it.
So, you know, classic rock

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stuff, since I was, yeah,
playing electric guitar since I

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was probably 10 and kind of
accidentally got into playing

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bass and then got a bunch of
gigs from from that later on.

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So.
Why does that thing happen to

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people I know more than one
person that accidentally got

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into playing bass.
My Is it out of need?

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No, it Well, my the
opportunities have been out of

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need.
But like like they're just fewer

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bass players.
But I was in 5th grade and I was

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going to Lombardi Middle School
from for middle school and they

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had somebody come in and talk to
us about it, just a counselor

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from the school and was talking
to us about the different

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classes and trying to help us
transition.

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And I I asked if I could play
guitar in in the band class and

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I I just didn't know.
And she said, no, but you can

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play it in orchestra.
I was like, oh, OK, cool.

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So I like, I went the entire
summer just thinking I'm, I'm

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going to play guitar and
orchestra.

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I it seems silly in retrospect,
but I got there on the first day

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and it was like teacher going
around the room, what do you

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play?
Violin, Viola, cello, guitar,

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guitar.
Like if we don't have guitar

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parts.
So I picked up she let me play

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electric bass in the orchestra.
So, like, move to that.

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And there were no bass players.
So it was just kind of like a,

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it was totally accidental.
And then I had learned bass.

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And.
Yeah.

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And through the years, even
though I've been playing guitar

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longer than a lot of people, I
just was the only guy with a

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bass.
So yeah, still riding that

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accident out.
Yeah.

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It happens like that sometimes.
That leads to, like, the most

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fun things of life.
Yeah, something you never knew,

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like you had no intention around
it.

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But it's like, all right,
whatever, I'll ride it.

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And then 30 years later, you're
riding it still.

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Big time, man.
Yeah.

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I mean the, like my kind of most
noteworthy musical experiences

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all would have come from playing
bass.

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Like just like the biggest
shows, coolest gigs, like all

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that I was, I was on bass.
So it's like not for that

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happenstance, like who knows
how.

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Many different bands have you
been in?

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I I made a list a few years ago
and I like in terms of like

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whether it's just like one off
or like hired gun stuff or you

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know, bands I've played in for,
you know, over a decade.

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I've, I've played on stage with
I think 25 different bands.

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Yeah.
And it'll be 26 in December.

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I I get to play bass for Wayne
Newton at North Star Casino.

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How trippy is that, man?
How?

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How?
Does that opportunity present

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itself?
That was my friend Alex

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Drossert, who's a piano player,
and he actually got to do the

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gig a couple years ago.
And a guy like that.

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A lot of big time musicians just
go to cities and they just have

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a band kind of waiting for them.
Like Chuck Berry was always like

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that.
They would play with new people

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every single night.
And yeah, Wayne rolls that way

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as well.
And Wayne Newton, he needs, he

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needs a a piano player.
So my friend Alex to do that,

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I'll be on bass and then my
friend Sam Farrell will be on

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guitar for it, so and.
You probably just have a couple

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practice sessions like.
In the weeks leading up, no, no,

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I guess last time they just
showed up and got the music and

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just we're on stage with him
hours later.

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That boggles my mind, man.
I don't know.

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It's it's a vocabulary and you
just get to learn it over the

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years and like for just song
structures and stuff like that,

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it becomes more intuitive.
Yeah.

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Do you play?
I do, but there's levels to this

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game and like my level is not
that level.

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I've been playing guitar since I
was probably like 14 or

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something, but I'm completely
self-taught and I don't read

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music, so like I can't that that
doesn't register with me.

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Like how you know that's not how
I could like learn a song or

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anything like that.
Like I know some regular like

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chord progressions of where the
song might go, but like the

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thought of like hopping on with
Wayne Newton and like I couldn't

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say 1 Wayne Newton song.
I don't know if you can, but.

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You don't know dunk a Shane.
OK.

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OK, that's that's literally the
only one I know, but.

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I do know that.
But yeah, I can't.

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I can't fathom that that's a
different level or layer than I

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than I have.
That's a little bit different

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and like for the caliber of
musician or you know, fame that

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that guy has, it's I've never
done anything quite like that

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for what it's worth.
So usually like you get a couple

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of rehearsals in or or you get
together, you know what the

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music is going to be and maybe
you're waiting on someone to fly

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in and then you and the backing
band get together and kind of go

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through it.
But then and then just, you

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know, might be the first time
that you actually play it with

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the singer on stage.
So yeah, yeah.

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You would You don't want to end
up getting The Dirty look from

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Wayne Newton.
No, no, no.

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Oh gosh.
I didn't even think about that.

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Pressure's on.
Man.

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So that's obviously like just
that whatever the like, what

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that leads to in general, right
Leads.

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You probably have so many
stories of just like playing

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live shows, different places,
like what's the?

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Is there a weird one that comes
in your mind that's like this?

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Something strange happened
because you're playing live

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music and it wouldn't have
without that type of thing.

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There was.
There have just been shows where

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I've kind of found myself on
stage with people that I just it

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blew my mind that I was on stage
with with this person or

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whatever.
I There was 1 gig where I was

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playing bass for Corey Chisel
and our drummer couldn't get out

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of work on time.
And it was we were playing

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Spring Green.
There's a really cool venue

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there.
I'll, I'll call it for the

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audience, the crappy barn, but
our drummer couldn't make it.

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But the opening act was Jimmy
Chamberlain from The Smashing

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Pumpkins is jazz group.
So then yeah, Jimmy being a

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drummer, played drums with us
and that talk about that, that's

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a guy that had never heard our
songs before and just jumped in

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and just jammed with us.
And that was that was pretty

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surreal.
Gosh.

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You know the the weird things
that happen are just sort of

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like the the weirdos you meet
between the shows and stuff like

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that are the funny little after
bars and stuff like that or

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whatever.
It's it's not not so much on

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stage.
You can pretty much roll with

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any of that, yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty cool like

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that too.
Boggles my mind.

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It's the same thing.
So like, how did how does he

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know what to play as the
drummer?

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Just hopping on stage with you,
meeting you 30 minutes prior to.

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That he's just a crazy drummer.
I mean, the guy plays, he plays

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in one of the biggest rock bands
in the world, but then he's a

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jazz aficionado on the side, so
he's just like loves drumming

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and just knows it inside now
just has the intuition.

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And yeah, yeah, that was pretty
cool though.

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Man, so what's what's dad of
five like?

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Congrats by the way.
Thank you.

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I know we we texted the in
person.

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Congrats holds more weight.
I.

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Think No, totally thanks, man.
It's so the night.

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It wasn't until the night that
my like I I dropped off my

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younger kids at my parents house
because we were doing we we've

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had this most recent one was our
fourth home birth.

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So drop the kids off at my folks
place and the dog and then got

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back to the house and just
riding it out, waiting it out,

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checking contractions and
waiting for the midwife.

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Eventually.
And it wasn't until I was on my

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way back from my folks place
that it dawned on me I was

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turning out of my street and it
was at this moment crossed my

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mind.
It might be kind of hard to have

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five kids dude.
Yeah, yeah it's been it's been a

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trip.
I mean just it's just the sheer

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00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,120
number of it.
And you know, you have the

227
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,400
problem around here where like
if you're trying to do work from

228
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,120
home or take a phone call or do
an interview at home and you

229
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,640
have a napping kid, it's just
like your house is just

230
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,920
sectioned off and now I'm just
sort of like running out of

231
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,520
corners to hide in and do work
and stuff like that.

232
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,120
So it's yeah, it's tricky.
Best thing in the world though.

233
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,240
I mean, like that's just.
I love it.

234
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,760
Obviously I love it or else I
wouldn't have had this many

235
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,320
kids, but.
For home births, that's super

236
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,040
interesting.
What's what all entail?

237
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:51,240
What all comes with that?
Like do you first I the first

238
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,720
thing that comes to my mind is
pressure.

239
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,640
I don't know why but is that is
that?

240
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:55,880
For who?
Accurate?

241
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000
Everybody.
For everybody.

242
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,200
Everybody.
No, it's.

243
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:09,920
So, I mean it came about my wife
had a baby pretty young before

244
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,080
we met.
And that's my stepson, who I

245
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,040
later adopted.
He's, yeah, never known his.

246
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,560
I've been dad for him.
I've been, you know, the only

247
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,840
dad he's ever known.
It's something I'm very proud

248
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,560
of.
But the hospital experience for

249
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,000
her especially, like being kind
of young and kind of going

250
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,560
through it alone, she felt, she
felt pressure in there to like,

251
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,200
you know, the doctor is like,
this isn't moving quickly

252
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,280
enough, etcetera.
And like them trying to talk her

253
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:41,360
into different procedures and
whatnot and didn't have a good

254
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,960
experience with it.
And I had never heard of home

255
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,560
birth.
And she came to me after we were

256
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:55,400
expecting and like talked me
into it, had me watching

257
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,600
documentaries, reading things.
And I was so against it.

258
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,520
I like, like, this is crazy.
How could you do, like, I've

259
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,040
never been part of, like, an
actual birth and this is what

260
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,200
you're going to make me jump
into?

261
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,160
But I mean, I had to take her
word for it.

262
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,720
I wasn't going to be like, no,
you have to go repeat this

263
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:16,920
unpleasant process or whatever.
And we found a midwife in Green

264
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:22,640
Bay and she was just just great
and just like totally, like,

265
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:23,880
she's probably done a million
times.

266
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,040
Took me through the one O 1
FAQs.

267
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:35,240
And yeah, I mean it was, it was
less pressure.

268
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,840
I like, from the outset, I would
have expected all the pressure

269
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,720
and everything to just high
stress.

270
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,360
I think a lot of that just comes
with the way births are

271
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,400
portrayed on TV and movies.
Like, oh God, my water broke.

272
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:52,320
Oh yeah.
But like, like it was just this

273
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,200
kind of process of just coming
to terms with it.

274
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,760
And honestly, like getting to
the point of maybe, you know, if

275
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,320
this happens in a certain way,
you have a backup plan.

276
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:04,960
Like you have a written out
backup plan.

277
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,680
What you would want to happen if
you need to do a transfer to a

278
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,880
hospital for whatever reason and
just establish a great

279
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,320
relationship with the midwife.
And I'm getting versed on all

280
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,160
this stuff that, you know, it's
like if it came down to it,

281
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,560
could I deliver a baby like by
myself?

282
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:31,440
And I'd like, I, I, I really We
had a, We had our, the youngest

283
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,440
son during COVID.
And we honestly didn't know the

284
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,160
hospital scene was going to be
like at that point.

285
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,920
So it was sort of just like, I
mean everything was mysterious

286
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,040
at that point where it's just
like what is the world is there

287
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,800
are there going to be hospitals
in nine months?

288
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,520
You know, it was like, so I was,
I paid extra attention that

289
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,440
time.
And I was, I was at the point

290
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,400
where it's like if I were, you
know, the proverbial, like

291
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,320
trapped elevator and a woman's
going into labor, like I could

292
00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:02,880
have delivered a baby like I.
But I mean the the scene itself

293
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,920
is just like purely serene.
It was just, you know, like

294
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:12,000
candles and playing records and,
you know, just super, super

295
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,920
chill.
Like, yeah.

296
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,840
Was this the Stones?
My wife did not.

297
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,200
She's she was.
She was a beat.

298
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,040
She grew up on The Beatles.
She likes the Stones.

299
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,040
But yeah.
So then you're you're.

300
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,640
Like you're like hearing.
Lemon singing You're cursing at

301
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:24,960
the.
Back.

302
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,080
No, I I do get a huge kick out
of some of the songs that she

303
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,160
puts on.
I like she she'll make like like

304
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,240
YouTube playlist and stuff like
that to like have going at

305
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,800
certain points and it's like all
of a sudden like the misfits

306
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,600
will come on Oh my God, I love
you.

307
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,560
Yeah, I can see that.
Like the the intention around it

308
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,600
is obviously to make it calm.
Yeah.

309
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,880
Oh yeah.
So, and I guess it's a lot, we,

310
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,640
our minds, generally stand the
test of what they're put up to

311
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,280
most of the time.
Especially on that, you know,

312
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,880
for babies, it's like you know
what it's like You you go into

313
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,560
it, you're never prepared, you
don't know what to even prepare

314
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:16,440
for, and then you just find you
just draw from places within you

315
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,520
that you didn't even know
existed, or maybe only existed

316
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,599
because of the circumstances or.
Yeah, yeah.

317
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,720
And I think that's probably why,
like all I remember and it's

318
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,160
because I didn't have to be in
that frame.

319
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,000
I just remember not being able
to talk when he came out.

320
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,120
I I was like, I can't I?
Oh dude, every single time.

321
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:37,840
So I've I've caught all four
babies in the in in a birth

322
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,880
pool.
And for whatever reason, as it

323
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,920
gets going, I don't know if I'm
just like not breathing enough.

324
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,440
But my limbs like, always go
numb and I'm always just, I feel

325
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,360
like I'm, I don't even know,
just wearing like huge foam

326
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,800
things around my arms, like
here's the baby full of jello.

327
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:57,040
Yeah, I.
Get it, man?

328
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,720
Yeah, 55 had to be a change.
It's funny you thought about it

329
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,520
driving home after dropping.
Yeah, yeah.

330
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,360
I don't know why it hit me only
then, but I mean, maybe it's

331
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:09,160
just as well.
Did you?

332
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,160
Have to buy a bigger vehicle.
No, Like, so that's really

333
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,880
funny.
I I had a friend who I was

334
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,480
talking to, a friend who had
five kids when I had four.

335
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,920
And I just kind of asked him,
like, so what's, what's the

336
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,320
difference between, you know,
having five to four?

337
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:25,680
And he's like, it's like, really
none.

338
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,920
If you've got a minivan, you can
already fit them all.

339
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,400
And it was like, gosh, that's so
wonderfully practical.

340
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,040
You're totally right, dude.
So no, I didn't have to get a.

341
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,440
Yeah.
Well, that's good.

342
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,720
Yeah, that's good.
So and you know, thinking of

343
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,840
that whole scenario, that wasn't
enough of a change for you,

344
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,000
right?
You're going through another big

345
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,000
change of career model.
Oh my gosh.

346
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:54,240
I know, I know.
I mean, so yeah, I I walked away

347
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,640
from a full time copywriting
position that I had worked for

348
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,040
like 10 years to get.
Like I had been.

349
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,760
I I was, I was a freelance
writer.

350
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,600
I was building up My Portfolio,
trying to just like, you know,

351
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,880
always, always working, but
always doing writing on the

352
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,640
side.
And I just kept getting rejected

353
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,360
from positions that I was going
for.

354
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:22,200
And I was.
I My last year of college, I

355
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,520
had, I had interned at an ad
agency in Green Bay archetype.

356
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,560
It's no longer around.
But it was something that I

357
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:35,160
always sought to get back into
and I just could not catch on

358
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,600
anywhere and and it was just
like, OK, it's got to be My

359
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,760
Portfolio.
I just need to keep adding to

360
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:40,800
that.
And I did and I would.

361
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,640
I was like pretty proud of it
and everything.

362
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,640
But as the years went on it was
like the the window between

363
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,480
application and rejection.
Just like it was getting like

364
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,160
smaller and smaller to where
there was seriously one toward

365
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,920
toward the end before I made a
change of just like I think I

366
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,400
got rejected in like 8 hours or
something like that.

367
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,120
Which you spend 3 days putting
together everything.

368
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,040
And then just to get that like
that was just like, dude,

369
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,280
something has to change here.
Like what's the deal?

370
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,480
Probably two things I don't
have.

371
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,080
I had an English, I double
majored in English in film, so I

372
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,760
didn't have a straight up
marketing degree.

373
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,680
Fine.
I also didn't have full time

374
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,080
experience, which you know,
can't get it unless you have it,

375
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,120
etcetera.
The great Paradox, but.

376
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,840
The only one of those I could
control was to get back or I

377
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,400
just, I bit the bullet, went
back for more schooling.

378
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,720
That's where we met.
And I started playing around

379
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,280
with some classes and the
scheduled builder and I was very

380
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,360
experienced in that, having
worked at N double ATC for 10

381
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:49,960
years and found out I could
knock out the 24 credits I

382
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,000
needed for a digital marketing
degree in one semester.

383
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,480
And was just like, do just do
it, just grit your teeth and get

384
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,240
over this.
And yeah, I did that.

385
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,880
I got hired like a week after I
got done with it.

386
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,200
So it was like, OK, that was
clearly the missing piece or I'd

387
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,320
like to think it was it.
Had to be not like when you

388
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,080
think of like I have no idea
what was in your portfolio but

389
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,480
the quality of your writing is
unbelievable.

390
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,200
So it's like you it's clearly
not that you know And then how

391
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,400
frustrating is that though when
you get to that, the paradox you

392
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,500
mentioned of you know want three
full year time, three years full

393
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:34,480
time experience paying entry
level type thing, it happens all

394
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:40,200
the time.
So you I wonder though, what is

395
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,840
it like?
It definitely wasn't only that,

396
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:50,000
but what else comes with that
decision like you to make that

397
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,040
decision in life to like that's
a big decision to go back to

398
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:59,360
school, spend money making a
180° career change from what you

399
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:03,880
were doing.
How much of it is like and

400
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,000
you'll never know, but how much
can you attribute to actually

401
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,800
like the degree having it?
And how much of it was like

402
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,080
mindset change or confidence in
yourself or your abilities that

403
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,000
cut you back on the on the?
Track maybe.

404
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,720
Maybe it got me just like
frustrated and focused and

405
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,280
hungry enough to where it was
just like I'm getting this thing

406
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,520
now.
This is I just invested four

407
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,960
months and you know couple 1000
bucks into this and like, yeah,

408
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,080
so yeah, maybe, maybe and you
know could have just been

409
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,320
timing.
It could have just been like the

410
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,560
right place finally opened up
right when I really was hoping

411
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,400
for it.
I wouldn't mind it having like a

412
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,240
month off after school, you
know, whatever.

413
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,960
Life's weird happenstances, man.
Oh dude, yeah, it was.

414
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,720
It was awesome.
So I I was working at an agency

415
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,560
full time.
It was just, it's the best job

416
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:49,880
I've ever had.
It's the best full time job I've

417
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,200
ever had.
I loved doing it.

418
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,760
Ultimately, it's almost like I
loved the writing part of it too

419
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,880
much.
I would, I would be guilty of

420
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,120
working and not through anyone's
fault from the agency, you know,

421
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,440
They would have certainly
discouraged it.

422
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,800
But I I would work kind of just
off the clock a lot just to make

423
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,960
my work that much better.
And it was just like I never

424
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,480
quite learned how to calibrate
the right effort level and

425
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,440
detail level or passion level
per project.

426
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:26,080
And I eventually, after 19
months, decided like this is

427
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,640
just unsustainable.
I just had too many, too many

428
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,480
late nights working, too many
nights of being at the office

429
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,160
all day coming home, logging
back in.

430
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:39,840
And it's, you know, trying to
explain to my little kids I'm

431
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,040
home, but I'm not.
You know, it just, it got like,

432
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,360
you know, I thought you're home
from work.

433
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,080
Well, you know, it just, it it
got, it was unsustainable.

434
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:52,360
And I, you know, with the new
baby coming up, it was like,

435
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,360
well, you know maybe this will
give me a chance to just kind of

436
00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,560
do a refocus here, which is a
crazy thing to think through.

437
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,000
But bear with me on this.
Like I at the very least I

438
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,480
thought, you know, usually you
take some time off after having

439
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,360
a baby.
This time it's like I'll have

440
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:13,920
the opportunity to kind of help
get things ready beforehand and

441
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,600
to make steps into the next
phase of my career beforehand

442
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,720
before I'm on that, you know,
vaunted new dad sleep all over

443
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,000
again.
And and then, you know,

444
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,080
certainly after where it's just
like I my paternity leave is

445
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,320
just kind of what I choose to
make of it.

446
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,320
And this is, you know, this is
going to be our last kid.

447
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,360
So it's like I'm sort of just
really soaking it up as such.

448
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,600
And yeah, trying to trying to
help around the house.

449
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,480
I mean, it's, yeah, it's never
been such a full house.

450
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,360
Yeah, no.
No shortage of things I can do

451
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,400
to help out.
Yeah.

452
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,320
And I like you can, you can see
how that line of thinking plays

453
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,960
out, right?
Like paternity leave is going to

454
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,040
happen anyway.
This is, this could be

455
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,960
everything you just said.
It still had to be hard to make

456
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,440
that decision at that point.
Yeah, well, just again, just

457
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,520
working, I, I basically viewed
that position for over 10 years

458
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,040
as like that's it.
Like that's that's what I got to

459
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,120
get into.
Then all my problems were solved

460
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,000
and then I'm going to do that
for the rest of my life.

461
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,360
And then you know, you just
can't know things until you

462
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:24,680
really get involved.
And I mean I gave it the most

463
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,760
honest effort I could and
learned a ton which I'll use for

464
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,360
the rest of my life.
But it's like I the hardest

465
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:35,720
thing that I had to learn from
that was just like I'm not a

466
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,560
great fit for doing this full
time.

467
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:43,440
And yeah, that was that was
tough to do, but.

468
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,760
Yeah, I think that'll that
resonates with a lot of people,

469
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,000
especially when you it's like a
creative type thing, right?

470
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,200
Like it's never perfect, it's
never going to be perfect, but

471
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,280
we always think we can make it
perfect if we keep you know,

472
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:03,800
tapping away.
And I think what was there like

473
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,720
a is there a was it a smoldering
fire, was it like a the slow

474
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,840
build up where you saw this
coming on or was there like 1

475
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,480
like volcanic moment that was
like this isn't sustainable long

476
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,160
term?
No, it was, it was it was slow

477
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,720
building and and it was like
there's a real risk of burnout

478
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:30,040
in any kind of creative field.
And I was just, I didn't want, I

479
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,800
didn't want to get to that point
where I was just like, I just

480
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,880
threw my hands up and stormed
out one day.

481
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,040
Or just like, I can't do this
anymore.

482
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,320
I was like, I wanted to at least
get to a point where I was

483
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,400
caught up with everything and
have like like a clear head and

484
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,280
just go, OK, I'm not stressed
out.

485
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,440
I'm not just reacting to the
present.

486
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,400
It's it's like I'm sizing this
up as a viable career for years

487
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,240
from now.
And it's like, man, I just,

488
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,520
yeah, didn't think it was.
It's tough to know.

489
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,880
It's tough to know.
But I also didn't feel like I

490
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,200
really made the decision.
I even had a decision to make.

491
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,560
I was just, I was, I was on that
path to burnout.

492
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,680
You know, when you're working at
night on weekends and you just

493
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,520
never really get away from it,
you never get a chance to

494
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,400
recharge.
It kind of messes with you.

495
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,960
And it's like, I didn't like how
that was messing with me.

496
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,800
Like, you know, nobody would
have has to work all the time

497
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,920
and so.
Was it?

498
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:29,200
Was it a passion for creating,
using the tool of writing that

499
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,600
led to that being like your
milestone objective or like

500
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,520
what?
What was the driving force

501
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,200
behind it?
Writing is.

502
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,360
I mean, music was always my main
passion, but basically in my

503
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:47,760
lifetime I've watched that just
kind of be devalued.

504
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,480
I mean, even like yesterday
Spotify announced they're going

505
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,720
to be paying their artists even
less.

506
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,560
Oh really?
Like, OK, like, cool.

507
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,520
It's nuts.
So obviously, like, and

508
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,080
especially if I wanted to stay
in the Midwest, which I do,

509
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:11,880
'cause it's a lot easier to
raise pile of kids here, I I I

510
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,760
have never really been able to
view that as like something I

511
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:20,880
could just do full time music.
So writing was always the thing

512
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,800
that everybody always pushed me
at.

513
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,160
I've always been kind of like
the resident guy where, hey, I

514
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,040
wrote this thing, we check it
out or you know, whatever that's

515
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,800
I've been.
I wrote for the school newspaper

516
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,680
and high school and like, you
know, I just, I always, I always

517
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,760
liked it.
And then I really tried to

518
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,040
foster that going into college
for for journalism at 1st and

519
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,640
then switching to English just
in general.

520
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,440
I thought I was going to be an
English teacher, but I I, I also

521
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,400
kind of treated, I've always
kind of treated all that stuff

522
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,080
as kind of like cross training
for music.

523
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,680
Like if I get better command of
the written word, I'll be better

524
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,240
at writing songs and stuff like
that.

525
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,280
So it was always kind of an
afterthought, but it's more of a

526
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,200
viable afterthought or it's more
of a viable career path than

527
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,120
than music is.
But yeah, now even writing,

528
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,840
gosh, I I hate to bring the
spectre up, but now like about a

529
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,080
year instead of being a
copywriter, that's when AI

530
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,600
really kind of reared its head
and it was just like, so now

531
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,640
even that's going to be devalued
or just like the the idea that

532
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,560
AI can do things instantly and
free.

533
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,400
It's just like that's just going
to make people, you know, second

534
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,480
guess before they hire a writer
and stuff like that.

535
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:43,440
So yeah, I don't know I I have
this like I I've never, I don't

536
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,560
know, you're a creative guy and
like you've you've always,

537
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,600
you've always held down full
time work and kind of gotten

538
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,840
your creative kicks on the side.
Like how do you, how do you feel

539
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,160
about like that kind of
compartmentalization?

540
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:06,320
Yeah, it's it's valid, right?
Like, especially it's hearing

541
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,160
burnout, like that's why, you
know.

542
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,480
Similarly, I went through a
thing where I worked in.

543
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,000
I spent a longer time doing it,
but I was completely burned out

544
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,520
working in broadcasting when I
was leaving that field.

545
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:20,520
What?
What was?

546
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,440
What was?
I've never worked in it, so like

547
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,720
what?
What were the rigors that like

548
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,560
LED you to want to walk away?
Yeah, some of it was.

549
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,200
Some of it was ironically the a
bit of the devaluing.

550
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,280
You're talking about it like
radio.

551
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:41,280
There was like this constant
like thing nagging at the, I

552
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,880
call them the suits, like
anybody that runs the suits,

553
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,040
nagging at the suits, heels, you
know, like everybody thought

554
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,400
like the next big thing was here
and radio was on its way out and

555
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,720
that was always a bit
uncomfortable.

556
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,720
The the lack of security in that
field in general was always a

557
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,800
bit uncomfortable for me.
Just for the medium.

558
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:05,920
It just didn't, yeah.
The yeah, because like the the

559
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,880
the higher you grew in your
career path, like the more apt

560
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,960
you were to, like, lose your
job, it seemed like at at some

561
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,440
point.
Like once you start pulling in

562
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,520
whatever salary, it's like you,
you kind of get a bullseye on

563
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,240
your back.
Because the market grows with it

564
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,560
and like the certain pressures
that come with that of like

565
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,960
creating the right stuff
consistently that people want to

566
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,320
hear.
But mainly for me that stuff was

567
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,760
all dealable.
Like it was frustrating at

568
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,440
times, but it was dealable.
But for me, it got to the point

569
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:44,080
where it was like, it was almost
there was this certain like

570
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:51,920
facade about it, that it was
like this tool that had all this

571
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,960
power.
Like similar to writing.

572
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,760
Like when you create something,
you, you create a domino effect

573
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,520
that happens after that for
people.

574
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,640
Like a big reason why I made the
podcast, like, hoping to create

575
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,600
a positive domino effect, right.
And I didn't know consistently

576
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,480
that that's what I was
contributing to.

577
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,080
And I think that's what
ultimately started leading to my

578
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,280
burnout.
Like, yeah, I can produce, you

579
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,360
know, 10 really cool spots in a
day that are going to, like,

580
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,640
sell a lot of cars or like, have
people go get a bunch of good

581
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,840
fish fries or like, whatever it
was, you know?

582
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,240
But like, did I have a My
question to myself was did I

583
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,040
have enough like creative
control over that ownership to

584
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,080
not only delineate what I was
creating, but why I was creating

585
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,240
it and who I was creating it
for.

586
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:48,120
And that started not like that
kind of chipped away at me more

587
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,680
than anything else.
And I didn't.

588
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,280
It wasn't fulfilling enough for
me that it led to, I wanted to

589
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:03,680
kind of like transition to like
using that power of words and

590
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,920
creativity in a different way, I
think.

591
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:13,680
So compartmentalizing, to answer
your question for me, I did that

592
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,720
for a certain amount of time
where it was like, you know,

593
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,240
yeah, like people got to sell
cars, people got to sell fish

594
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,960
fries, People love fish fries.
It's good.

595
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,160
And there's nothing wrong with
it either.

596
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,680
You know it's.
The Lord's work, man.

597
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,640
Fish fries going.
Significantly, yeah.

598
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,720
But I don't know.
I think that's where the burnout

599
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,000
came from, me like.
So while you were doing that

600
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,040
what I've what I've kind of
found is it's almost like the

601
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,240
closer I get to actually semi
scratching that creative itch

602
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,120
with a career, the less I have
leftover to work on it in my

603
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,680
free time.
And so I don't end up

604
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,880
compartmentalizing.
When I was a full time

605
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,840
copywriter, I I don't think I've
ever read fewer books or spent

606
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,040
less time reading and and
writing for myself in my life

607
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,080
than that.
Because all day long it was the

608
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,560
written word, the last thing I
want to do.

609
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,600
Like you know, when I have a an
hour, if only to just spare my

610
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,159
eyes, it's just like dude, I
want to be reading more words,

611
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,000
you know?
Yeah. 100% yeah.

612
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,159
I never would have started a
podcast at that time.

613
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:22,800
Right, exactly.
Yeah.

614
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,880
And that would have been a.
Stranger to do it after.

615
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,159
I left, right.
Yeah.

616
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,400
So like that type of
compartmentalizing I just, I

617
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,400
kind of just keep going back and
forth where it's just like

618
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,920
should I just go further away
from my passion for my day job

619
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,639
and just like try and just get
into a situation where it's like

620
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,040
I'm not passionate about this
whatsoever but it pays the

621
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,520
bills.
And then use the rest of the

622
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,360
time for stuff that I really
care about is that you know

623
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,280
that's that's like kind of the
debate and and and there are a

624
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,200
lot of people out there you have
different advice on that.

625
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,360
You know there's some people out
there that are just like no, you

626
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,080
need to get a job that you love
doing every day.

627
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,160
You need to get out of bed
excited every day or you're not

628
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,160
in the right field.
It's like I don't know.

629
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,160
I I don't know if that's like
really possible.

630
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:17,480
And that's fine.
You know, I I I have a really

631
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,080
good work ethic.
So like that's fine.

632
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,560
I'm just trying to yeah.
Figure out the best way to feed

633
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,520
all those baby birds you know?
Yeah.

634
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,000
Get a job you love and you won't
work a day, Maddie.

635
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,520
My God, yeah.
That's such a pipe dream.

636
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,880
Such a pipe dream.
We all like.

637
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,080
We all have stuff that we are
naturally inclined to and better

638
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,760
at and enjoy and that's great,
but you can get that in so many

639
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,360
different ways.
I I think that's a really a

640
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,480
really like, I mean not only is
it an age-old question right?

641
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,200
Do you like, follow your passion
and dreams or stay within?

642
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,560
You know?
Sure, that's an age-old

643
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,440
question.
Well, I had AI had a friend when

644
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,760
I was younger and he, he and I
were, it was like we were both

645
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,000
just trying to figure out in in
like late our late teens, like

646
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,160
what on earth are we going to do
with our lives.

647
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:15,440
And he had the idea that you're
kind of tortured by all your

648
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,120
abilities.
Or like, you know, maybe it's

649
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,520
maybe it's a Midwest thing.
Or we're just like we're just

650
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,720
kind of told we can do anything.
And it's like it's kind of like

651
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:27,720
a trap in its own way where it's
like if you can do anything,

652
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,680
then you're going to choose not
to do something.

653
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,440
And that's going to, like eat at
you.

654
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,400
And you're going to think,
should I have done this or

655
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,800
whatever?
So yeah, it's pretty annoying to

656
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,760
still be toiling with these
questions this much further on,

657
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,960
But I think they are age-old in
some ways, yeah.

658
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,120
Do you think the same thing
would happen with music for you?

659
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,960
If that ended up being a full
time endeavor?

660
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,280
Given you know, knowing you and
and how much value you put on

661
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,880
your familial situation, you
probably wouldn't be a traveling

662
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,120
musician, right?
Well, I probably, I mean, if I

663
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,920
would have really thrown myself
into it.

664
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,640
Like the truth is I wouldn't
have a family.

665
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:11,320
You know, if I would have moved
to LA or Nashville, like Austin

666
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,480
or whatever, you know, you're
living in these super expensive

667
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,640
places, clamoring to get gigs,
playing out every night, going

668
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,400
out to support other bands and
network and all that and like,

669
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,320
you know, at at no point would
you stop and go, boy, I should

670
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,920
really have a kid.
That would really help right

671
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,400
now.
I mean, it's a little, it's

672
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,320
maybe there's something
counterintuitive about it.

673
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,920
I find myself totally inspired
to, like, work harder and be

674
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,440
better because of my kids.
To honor that and all that, but

675
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,280
it's just so impractical in
those big cities.

676
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,480
But I purposely didn't pursue
music in college because I

677
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,600
didn't want to get burnt out on
my passion.

678
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,400
So you were thinking about it
even at that time?

679
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah dude, it's so
stupid.

680
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,840
But I mean, well, anecdotally
has clearly worked, right?

681
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,440
Like the chip is in the pudding.
You're still playing music.

682
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,280
You still?
Love it.

683
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,280
I've gotten, yeah.
I've gotten to live a very rich

684
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,560
musical life, especially
considering, like, I've never,

685
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,480
I've never lived outside the
Midwest.

686
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,360
So you're.
Going to be slapping the bass

687
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,320
for Wayne Newton.
Oh my God, yes, that that was

688
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:26,200
Where do I go from there, man?
But so hypothetically, say you

689
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,920
could skip that part.
Like you could Wayne Newton?

690
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,000
No.
No, no, I wouldn't.

691
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,960
Dream of, not even
hypothetically.

692
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,960
Don't torture him.
Never skip Wayne Newton.

693
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,360
Say you could skip that part.
You were just talking about

694
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,880
that.
Actually in some ways social

695
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,760
media has created a way around
of for musicians who become like

696
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,160
massive seemingly overnight some
people.

697
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,040
But say you could skip that part
of like having to toil away,

698
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,120
live in a really expensive area
and and work on that exposure

699
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,000
piece and like grow as an
artist.

700
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,480
Say you could go to the next
level and be a sustaining

701
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,440
musician that could like build,
build a comfortable life,

702
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,400
touring 6 months out of the year
and then writing and just

703
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,000
skipping the part where there's
the uncertainty.

704
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,760
Would it then, if you forecast
that right, would do you think

705
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:19,680
the same?
Thing would happen.

706
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,040
Where it would turn into a job.
Like maybe that's I, I don't

707
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:29,920
know I I maybe I just need to
tap into my inner Nietzsche and

708
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,960
just like appreciate the
struggle of all this or

709
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,120
something like that.
But yeah, I I don't know it's

710
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,520
it's so tough to say.
Like that sounds fantastic.

711
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,840
But you know, maybe it's it only
sounds that way till you get

712
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,440
into it or yeah.
Yeah, so that leads you to.

713
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,520
Now, you said that you're doing
music, you left the copy, or

714
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,920
you're doing some freelance
copyright work and you're doing

715
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,320
some tree work.
Oh yeah, a little bit of tree

716
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,240
work on the side.
So if.

717
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:03,280
You cut down a tree this big.
Not quite, not quite, no, I

718
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,920
don't think so.
Gosh, we were working on one

719
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,120
last week though that was really
might have been about this big.

720
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,320
It rivaled it, Yeah.
How are you?

721
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,840
How do you enjoy that type of
work so far?

722
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,840
Well again it's just sort of
this this back and forth between

723
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,560
should I just go straight up
learn a trade And I I did I I

724
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,640
bailed out of office life for to
work as a house painter for a

725
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,960
year and a half before I went
back into marketing or you know

726
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,920
maybe an honest effort at
writing and it's just sort of

727
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:38,440
this idea of I'm just going to
do something and just get this

728
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,520
kind of physical work that's not
going to that has anything to do

729
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,320
with my actual passions and then
just see if there's anything

730
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:48,920
left over for that.
But I've been I've been helping

731
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:56,440
out my buddy justice that's
that's pales tree service POEHLS

732
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,440
tree service out of Appleton
he's amazing.

733
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,920
He is actually also an English
major has four kids he he took

734
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,560
an album cover photo on on tin
type for for me a couple years

735
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,400
ago so we've known each other
for a while so in some ways he's

736
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,000
kind of just totally leaned into
the the trade aspect versus the

737
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,520
arts.
But I I I mean it's it's just a

738
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,640
perfect amount I I can help him
as much as I want to and it kind

739
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,480
of gives me a just a day or two
a week to just kind of scratch

740
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,680
like that kind of physical work
itch and just you know I'm not

741
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,920
I'm not tied down at any path
right now.

742
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,880
I'm grateful for that as a
supplement.

743
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,560
And yeah, it's cool to work with
a with a buddy like that too.

744
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:51,240
Yeah, it's it's like it excites
me to like think about your

745
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,080
position because like that's.
Cool Well.

746
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:59,840
Like I have a like the unknown I
I really lean into change.

747
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,400
Like I kind of like change.
And like I I enjoy it.

748
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,880
And like you have like seemingly
an endless amount of things that

749
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,880
could be your next step.
How do you feel about that

750
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,480
endless amount?
Of things.

751
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,080
Well, the one thing that I've
kind of I I this is something

752
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,720
that I couldn't foreseen until I
just sort of put myself in this

753
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:24,440
position where it's like, OK,
I've I've got a few freelance

754
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,040
clients right now and I'm
digging that.

755
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,200
I've got music work that's going
on.

756
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,400
I have a a solo album that's
going to be out later this year,

757
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,200
hopefully waiting on the vinyl
for that.

758
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,840
I have tree work.
I have a new website about local

759
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,240
events that I'm rolling out in a
little while here, and I'm

760
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:50,440
helping friends put together
movies and like pitch decks for

761
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,360
their movies and stuff like so
it's it is neat to to have this

762
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,840
luxury to kind of do all this
stuff.

763
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,640
But what I couldn't have known
until I got into this position

764
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:04,160
was I think you need to be, I
think you need a certain

765
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,640
personality type to really
thrive in a situation like I

766
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,640
have and I'm not sure that I
have that.

767
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,440
And that's that's kind of like
someone who's very, I'll I'll

768
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,560
say aggressive, but I don't mean
it in a bad way like, I mean it

769
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,000
in a way that I actually, well,
I but in a way like in a way

770
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,520
that I actually, I think it's
like a rare and special quality.

771
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,680
Like I don't know that many
people that are actually like

772
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,080
that.
A lot of people just sort of

773
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,800
hang back and like, that's my
I'm I'm just like trying to

774
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,120
figure out like, am I actually
not that or am I just being a

775
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,680
coward or whatever, but right.
Is there something innate

776
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,880
holding me back?
Yeah, well, I I just like, I

777
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,000
still kind of feel like my best
role is in a sort of support

778
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,440
role and that's the role that I
have right now or you know, this

779
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,040
conglomerate of roles.
It's like, I need to kind of be

780
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:59,880
this and ambitious guy in a way
that I've never, I've never had

781
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,240
to be.
I've never had to lead myself,

782
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,280
you know?
And I don't know if that's just

783
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,200
like, I need to work on my
leadership development or it's

784
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,280
just like, no, dude.
Just get into somewhere.

785
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,800
You're like old enough to know
who you are naturally to where I

786
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,960
like get into a role where you
know, I I do like, I do like

787
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,600
those roles.
Like when I'm working with a a

788
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,120
freelance or as a freelance role
and I'm writing with somebody

789
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,880
who has the vision, like I feel
totally alive when I'm helping

790
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,120
that person you know live out
his or her vision.

791
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,360
And it's just like, yeah, I I, I
thrive in that situation and

792
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,360
yeah, so.
The power to tell a story is a

793
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,840
is sure is a a very powerful
thing.

794
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,640
Yeah, yeah, I dig that.
I hate the way that that term

795
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,720
has been kind of bastardized and
marketing where it's yeah,

796
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,240
what's your story like?
Who cares?

797
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:51,760
What?
Well, everybody always said

798
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:52,560
Kmart.
Yeah.

799
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:53,920
Who?
Who really cares about Kmart's

800
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,920
story?
The end.

801
00:44:56,240 --> 00:45:03,000
But yeah, yeah, it's just like,
you know, story, man.

802
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,120
You know, like Cinderella's a
story.

803
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,600
You know, like, yeah.
Yeah.

804
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,360
So a couple of those things I
want to pluck out and talk a

805
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,720
little bit about today, the the
website that seems like that's

806
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:15,160
going to build off of Mattie Day
Verified.

807
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,080
Oh, heck yeah, man.
So that was.

808
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,200
How did that, how did Mattie Day
Verify come to life and what do

809
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,080
you do with that?
So I was.

810
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:29,040
I got off of social media
entirely during COVID because it

811
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,840
was just like, that was just my
only exposure to people.

812
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,560
And The thing is like on social
media, everybody's kind of, you

813
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,120
know, everyone who uses social
media is sort of like their own

814
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,600
PR person.
And The thing is 99% of them are

815
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,720
terrible at it.
And you know, you just have this

816
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:51,520
exposure, you have this exposure
to people.

817
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,280
And it's like, I know I don't, I
don't love what you put out

818
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:55,840
here.
I I love you.

819
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,480
But like if if all you have is
like that version of somebody

820
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,360
was just like I just need to
walk away from this.

821
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,840
Like, it was just kind of a
negative time to be on there.

822
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,600
And I didn't have anything to
promote or anything like that.

823
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,800
So it's just like, it wasn't, it
wasn't irresponsible for me to

824
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,080
to get off.
So I was totally off social

825
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:19,960
media I made.
I had to get back on for the

826
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,680
classes that we were doing.
Like I had to make an Instagram

827
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,360
account for the first time and I
had to just, yeah.

828
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,000
Then eventually working at an ad
agency, I had to get back on.

829
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,520
I had to get back on Facebook
because I couldn't even see

830
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,400
posts for our clients that I was
putting out there.

831
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:43,200
So I kind of just got back in
and just took that chance to

832
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:47,960
like at least try to your class.
And and just some of the other

833
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,800
ones really kind of taught me
like the difference between, oh,

834
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,960
I'm just this expressive creator
and you know, I'm just doing

835
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,360
this to to to get it out of me
or whatever.

836
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,080
It's like, dude, yeah, if that
were really true, you would just

837
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,160
put all this time in and then
stash it in your closet and not

838
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,680
show it to anybody.
Like, there is a sliding scale

839
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,200
between I want people to know
about this and I want people to

840
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,800
experience this and I want to
share it with people.

841
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:17,240
And it's just like, I recognize
that there was something

842
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:21,920
disingenuous about my dislike of
promotion or marketing because

843
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,920
it's like, I do want people to
know about this.

844
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,520
And as a fan of music, it's like
if bands weren't out there

845
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,920
putting their stuff out there, I
wouldn't even know who they are.

846
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,120
You know, you got to kind of
just recognize that, call it a

847
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,480
necessary evil, if you will, but
it's like, it's definitely

848
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,840
necessary.
So I kind of matured through,

849
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,840
like your class and some of the
other ones begrudgingly and

850
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,640
started to, you know, work at an
agency and was learning how to

851
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,240
do this for other people.
And, you know, genuinely putting

852
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:52,840
these things into play and
seeing it work for these other

853
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,360
companies.
And I thought, well, you know, I

854
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,240
put in all this hard work.
I've always done all these

855
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,200
different projects and and
everything.

856
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,040
And it's like, it hasn't been
about making money.

857
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,840
It's just been like I want to
entertain my friends.

858
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,040
Or like, you know, I want to
show my city a good time.

859
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,960
Or like, you know, I want this
to be a fun tour or whatever.

860
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:15,160
And it's like, well, dude, like
figure out how to get that word

861
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,800
out there, figure out how to,
you know, spread the word.

862
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,840
And I had been playing all these
different bands, writing for

863
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,400
different publications and
everything, and I just thought,

864
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,240
why don't I just make a public
page for myself and I can just

865
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:33,120
kind of use that as like a home
base for everything.

866
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,720
And I just kind of tongue in
cheek, called it Maddie Day

867
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:40,200
verified because I'm too small
time to actually be verified.

868
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,200
But.
Which is the use of its size.

869
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,880
My lap so hard the first time I
saw it.

870
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,000
That's awesome.
Yeah, so is that the?

871
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,640
Is that the main objective of it
is sharing local events, or do

872
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,800
you see it branching out to
other places?

873
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,520
Like what's your or is it?
Well, I mean I I kind of just

874
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,560
used it as you know like part of
it is like it's honestly a bit

875
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,640
of like attempts to game the
algorithm by posting regularly

876
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,760
and like getting interaction
regularly.

877
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,080
So like, you know, I I was just
trying to think of different

878
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:21,920
ways to do that.
And when I probably about 10

879
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:27,920
years ago, I was writing for
Green Bay Scene newspaper, which

880
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,320
is no longer around and then and
then later on frankly Green Bay

881
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,640
newspaper or magazine, which is
also no longer around.

882
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,760
But I was in charge of the
events list on those, right.

883
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,960
I went to my editor because,
frankly, it was because I would

884
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,680
look at these events lists and I
wouldn't see my own shows in

885
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:46,720
them.
And I go, where are you getting

886
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:47,600
these?
Who's doing this?

887
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,120
Like, you're missing out on all
this cool stuff like present

888
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,240
company included.
And like, I I just offered to do

889
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:57,040
it and and I asked about it and
the editor was like, I hate

890
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,240
doing that.
That's just like, that's the

891
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,240
most tedious part of my job.
If you would take that off my

892
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:04,080
plate, I I would pay you to do
it.

893
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,800
And I'm just like, oh, sweet,
awesome.

894
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:11,680
So I I went hard at those lists.
I would try to make the most

895
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,600
comprehensive list of all events
going around and Green Bay de

896
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,200
Pier Howard Schwab, not, you
know, whatever.

897
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,600
And I I I did that for years.
I mean I would I would spend a

898
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,680
good 10 hours like just scouring
everything to just like make

899
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,680
these huge event lists And then
I would hear people say like

900
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,400
man, is there anything going on
this weekend?

901
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,320
And I'm just like, why?
Are you kidding me, dude?

902
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,680
Like, dude, like, my own friends
didn't even know that I was

903
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,840
doing this list.
And I don't know it it kind of,

904
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,040
I always felt this sort of civic
duty of like, there's great

905
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,000
stuff going on in Green Bay.
It drives me nuts when people

906
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,360
are like, there's nothing that
happens here.

907
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,520
Like, dude, try, you know,
whatever.

908
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,920
But to their credit, when I was
off Facebook for whatever

909
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,560
reason, just in Green Bay, like
that's that is the hub for like

910
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,920
all events.
Like I when I was not on there,

911
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,760
I missed out on so many cool
things where it's just like I'm

912
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,480
trying to find this stuff, I
can't even do it and it's just

913
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,480
'cause I'm not on there getting
invited to whatever.

914
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,880
And I don't know, I just kind of
reassess like maybe instead of

915
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,440
having this comprehensive list
of everything, maybe curate it a

916
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:23,040
little bit more.
And like, you know, I've been

917
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,360
active in the local
entertainment scene where it's

918
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,560
like people trust me to be like,
oh, you know, oh, if Maddie says

919
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,680
this is cool, maybe this is, you
know, worth doing or whatever.

920
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,280
And, you know, granted, I try to
get variation in there, like

921
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,080
sometimes stuff for kids or
whatever, too.

922
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,400
But yeah, I just started.
I started doing a weekly list on

923
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:43,280
there.
It was just kind of like

924
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:48,520
resurrecting my old, like, ways
of trying to promote local

925
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,040
events and stuff like that.
And yeah, I loved doing that.

926
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:53,560
GB half, GB half.
Yeah.

927
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,800
When I when I was with, frankly
Green Bay, it was like I got

928
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,920
asked to come up with a hashtag
and that was like, that was what

929
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,960
I came up with.
And yeah, so that wasn't being

930
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:03,880
used anymore.
So I reclaimed that.

931
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:09,720
And yeah, so now depending on
when this airs or whatever, like

932
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:12,880
that's, we're just in super
early stages of getting up a

933
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,360
website to try to take it, you
know, like have like a non

934
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,080
social media thing and try to
get like a mailing list and

935
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:25,160
stuff like that and maybe like
branch into other area cities

936
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,200
and stuff like that.
Just yeah, I'd love for it.

937
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,480
Not I'd love for you not to have
to be on facebook.com to know

938
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:32,920
like what's going on in Green
Bay.

939
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,680
It's like it's a little silly
and I don't know.

940
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,680
I hear from people that they
would appreciate it too, so shut

941
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,240
up.
Everybody would.

942
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:42,720
Well, I mean, my wife and I find
ourselves doing that, like

943
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:45,480
checking out the Facebook events
to see what we want to do that

944
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,760
weekend, especially for like
kids activities too.

945
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,080
Like that's where that's where
you go.

946
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,800
And if there's a a place to do
that that I don't have to, like

947
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,080
get sucked into scroll in the
Feed for a while.

948
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,680
Totally or yeah.
Yeah.

949
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,520
So that's the goal.
I'll still, you know, I'll have

950
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,680
like my kind of recommendations,
but then I'll probably make it a

951
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,560
bit more comprehensive and maybe
like filterable like where like

952
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,920
you know kids events or food and
drink etcetera, that type of

953
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,440
stuff.
What kind of time are you

954
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,040
putting in the now to collect
the events going on?

955
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,160
It still can't be the quickest.
No, it's not.

956
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,280
I mean it's kind of, it's kind
of throughout the week like I

957
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,240
just basically if if I'm around
and like seeing things or

958
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,240
getting invited to things like I
just accrue throughout the week

959
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:31,920
this huge list of like status
interested Facebook events and

960
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,680
then just kind of go with it
from there.

961
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:38,880
And then just I I takes me, I
don't know, hour and a half to

962
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,720
compile it all and just, you
know, try to tag everybody and

963
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:44,840
you know.
The evolution of that's going to

964
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,880
be super interesting, man,
because you see like if that

965
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:52,800
continues to grow, which it
probably will, you'll turn in.

966
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:58,720
You'll turn from a like a a
searcher and a curator to like a

967
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,160
like a delineator, where it's
like people are going to be

968
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:03,920
reaching out to you with their.
That would be.

969
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,000
That would be so cool.
Especially, you know, like it's

970
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,840
one thing for me to do this in
Green Bay where it's like I've

971
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,040
got my finger on the pulse as
firmly as anybody, but it's like

972
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,880
I don't have that in Appleton as
much or in Oshkosh as much or,

973
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:20,720
you know, whatever.
So, yeah, but this was, I had

974
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:23,760
just been doing this.
Like I was just doing this for

975
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,360
just myself and my friend Sam,
who I'm playing with in Wayne

976
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:29,600
Newton.
I do all sorts of stuff with

977
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,320
these Appleton guys.
They're just super talented.

978
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,440
Sam engineered records that I've
done and he's just like crazy

979
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:38,480
player.
But then he also builds

980
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,000
websites.
It's just like, dude, who are

981
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,800
you?
But yeah, so he came to me and

982
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,800
he's like, have you ever thought
about trying to do this

983
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,800
somewhere else and, you know,
getting it off of there and

984
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:51,480
keeping it on there too?
But yeah, so this was, it's kind

985
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,160
of a collaborative thing.
Now we're going.

986
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,320
Somewhere that you can monetize
a little bit easier too, which

987
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,720
is nice.
Yeah, that's like part of the

988
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:01,520
goal too, So.
Awesome Mattie Day.

989
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,040
Verified coming soon in a
different location.

990
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,200
It'll it'll have.
It'll have its own name yet.

991
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,880
I won't, I won't roll that out
quite yet.

992
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,480
But it's the.
Secret.

993
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:15,360
OK, so OK, the second part of
that then that I wanted to pick

994
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,640
out solo album, Yeah, that's
exciting.

995
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,440
Something you something you've
done before.

996
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,680
No, no.
Again, I'm not much of A leader

997
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,560
type.
So like this was like I've

998
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,000
always just been a great
bandmate and contributed songs

999
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:34,240
for other bands and everything,
but I've never done this and it

1000
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:38,040
came from, it's not like I, you
know there were people who wrote

1001
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,920
songs during COVID and stuff
like that.

1002
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,280
I I didn't.
I was like so done with music

1003
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,840
when COVID hit like it's where I
was just like yeah forget that

1004
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,800
like I'm I'm just, I can't
believe I wasted time on that,

1005
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,800
etcetera.
Like it was just like I was

1006
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,640
pretty burned out on music going
into COVID.

1007
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:55,400
Like, I was thinking I was done
with it.

1008
00:55:55,400 --> 00:56:00,560
And then after a while of that,
it was just like, OK, but you

1009
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,600
know, like, I mean, I'm a
lifelong.

1010
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,600
I've been writing songs since I
was a teenager, like working on

1011
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,480
it.
And I'm super dorky about it.

1012
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:13,280
Where, like, I have, I have just
all these different files on my

1013
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,560
computer of, like, categories of
lyrics and stuff like that,

1014
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,160
where it's just like, oh, that's
cool Social commentary.

1015
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,680
Oh, that's romantic.
Oh, that's like catchy or

1016
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,760
whatever.
Like I I've had these like files

1017
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:30,000
going for 20 years and I was
just like dude, you know, all

1018
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,960
that like you know, all those
tape recorded things, all those

1019
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,160
memos to self and just like
you're really just going to just

1020
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,280
just be done.
Like once the reality of that

1021
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,440
hit me, I was just like, OK,
like you got to try to do

1022
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,400
something with this.
And there were a number of songs

1023
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:49,440
that I had just always kind of
felt like I I'm going to record

1024
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,600
that someday.
And then it was just like, OK,

1025
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,120
well, let's just make a list of
those.

1026
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:58,200
And I like an album title like
struck me one day.

1027
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,600
And it was just like, you know,
I've been in a lot of different

1028
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,920
types of bands, like rock'n'roll
bands, pop bands, soul bands,

1029
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,360
country bands and stuff like
that, where it's just like, I

1030
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,280
don't ever write necessarily for
a band sometimes, but like, a

1031
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:13,640
lot of times I just write a
tune.

1032
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,880
If it suits a band, great.
Sometimes you bring it to a

1033
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,600
band, It's like not, not so
much, but like, I had all these

1034
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,080
songs that were kind of just
like these bastards like that.

1035
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,880
I just never they meant a lot to
me, but like, they never fit

1036
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,600
great with any of the any, any
given project.

1037
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:31,520
So I found a way to try to
stitch that into one album.

1038
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,600
I just started calling in favors
from like, anyone who I'd ever

1039
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:39,000
played with.
And my buddy Sam again, I, I did

1040
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,160
a bit of painting work for him.
It's like a bit of a barter

1041
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,000
thing to be like, would you
engineer this?

1042
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:51,600
And yeah, I've just been just
fairly sporadically, you know,

1043
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,840
at at most once a week for a
couple hours.

1044
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,000
We'd get together over a year
and a half and and track things

1045
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,480
together and get guest musicians
and stuff like that.

1046
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:05,040
And yeah, super.
It's been like the thrill of my

1047
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,960
life to put this together.
Like I don't know if I'll ever

1048
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,360
do it again.
I've just like cherished the

1049
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,120
heck out of it for what it is.
And the songs can't really be

1050
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,880
played live either because like
every song has a different

1051
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,120
lineup of people and that's like
suited to people's skill sets

1052
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:19,600
and stuff like that.
So it's not like I could just

1053
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:22,440
get together a band.
And it's really, it's it's a bit

1054
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,040
produced too.
Like you're just, you know, I

1055
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:27,960
don't know if we'd be able to to
do that.

1056
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:33,360
Like one song we'll have like a
New Orleans brass section on it

1057
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,160
and like the next will just be
like a stripped down rocker.

1058
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:41,080
Like, yeah, it's not anything
I'm going to do live, but I'm

1059
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,680
trying to put it out there for
people.

1060
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,120
I think people will like it.
I'm printing it on vinyl, which

1061
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,640
is super expensive, so I hope
people like it.

1062
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,520
That's what I was, that that was
obviously going to be one of my

1063
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,000
next questions if you were going
to like follow it up with live

1064
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,400
shows, but it's interesting to
create a piece that you don't

1065
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,320
see that being possible.
No, I mean the inspiration of it

1066
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:08,800
was largely out of being like
absolved of the questions.

1067
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,600
You know you if you're in a band
it's like boy that's neat, but

1068
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:15,520
how would we do that live Or
like you know you if you if you

1069
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,840
kind of go into a recording
session that way and then you

1070
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:23,120
try to represent it live, it can
just totally fall short.

1071
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,640
Or like like a a big thing with
like rock bands is if you have

1072
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:30,760
like these kind of multi track
songs or whatever where there's

1073
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,480
like a cool hook doing this,
like cool backup vocals and

1074
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,960
whatever.
But then like live, you're just

1075
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,320
this stripped down band.
You kind of just have to play it

1076
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,720
faster and like it'll fill it
all in, which is like a thrill

1077
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:46,440
of its own.
But it's like you're never going

1078
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,760
to be able to do justice to what
you do on the record.

1079
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,640
And this time, like, for the
first time, I was just like,

1080
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,200
yeah, great, Let's, like, let's
just make this sound how we want

1081
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,800
it to and like, not care at all
about how to represent it live

1082
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,720
and yeah.
And make it tricky to sell these

1083
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,160
things without playing gigs but
I don't know.

1084
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,160
I what I thought about is just
doing doing some solo shows like

1085
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,320
straight up acoustic where it's
like there's no pretense like

1086
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,000
I'm not trying to represent
these or something like that But

1087
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:17,640
we'll see haven't haven't quite
turned the corner on that.

1088
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:21,240
The focus has just been on like,
yeah, like even yesterday I got

1089
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,000
the the art proofs back from the
the vinyl company and I found

1090
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,640
out I had stuff turned the wrong
way and color was wrong.

1091
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,320
It's just like I'm still in the
weeds on on all that, so.

1092
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,080
Yeah, super exciting, though.
When did you say you think it's

1093
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:37,440
going to be like Ready Ish?
The vinyl is supposed to be, I

1094
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,520
mean, I'm calling it a 2023
album, but the vinyl is out.

1095
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,600
The the estimate for the vinyl
is early January.

1096
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,600
So yeah, but I I shot a music
video last week that yeah, I'm

1097
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:50,440
going to do videos like.
So that's going to be really

1098
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:51,200
fun.
I've never really.

1099
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:52,920
I don't have much experience
with that.

1100
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:54,440
OK.
Yeah.

1101
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,680
Nice, man.
That's super exciting.

1102
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,640
I I think about when you said
coming into COVID you were going

1103
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,400
to be done with music, it
brought me to a different place

1104
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,240
in time.
There was this dude that I knew

1105
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,200
in the last place I lived and he
was a solo show guy.

1106
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,160
He would go to different like
bar and restaurants to do a solo

1107
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,440
show, solo acoustic.
Just really passionate about

1108
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,120
music in general.
It was all covers and he had

1109
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,560
been flowed like, I knew this
dude for probably seven years or

1110
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,920
so and I think he quit and
started like retired and started

1111
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:28,440
music like three times.
Even.

1112
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,080
When I knew him and I like it,
makes you think about the

1113
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:33,960
burnout thing, right?
Like sure.

1114
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,840
Is that what it is?
Well, I mean part of it was like

1115
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,960
that last like 2019.
I I I was gigging hard and just

1116
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:48,280
like just gone a lot.
And my daughter was three at the

1117
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:53,520
time, so she was aware that,
like, she would start to cry

1118
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,240
when I would leave.
And it was just like, OK, this

1119
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,000
really better be worth it, dude,
You're like bringing your little

1120
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,680
girl to tears like this.
This better be worth it.

1121
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:04,760
And it just got me thinking more
about just like, how I'm

1122
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:06,640
spending my time and and all
that.

1123
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,200
But yeah, it was weird.
I don't know.

1124
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,560
It was, it was just interesting
to be like, yeah, I don't need

1125
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:13,680
that.
And then be like, well, cool,

1126
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,280
You can't have it anyway, Like,
and then and then to just kind

1127
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,640
of come around and think, like,
am I really going to snuff this

1128
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,760
out?
And it's like, I I can't quite

1129
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:27,440
explain it, but in a lot of ways
I fell harder for music than

1130
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,360
ever before.
And just like, yeah, I've like

1131
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,760
never had as much fun doing it
as as I have now.

1132
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:38,120
And yeah, like the the results
on the album will bear that out.

1133
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:39,680
Nice man.
Yeah.

1134
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,480
How would you, how would you
describe it?

1135
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,120
It sounds like if if it's kind
of that amalgam of.

1136
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:46,120
It's totally different.
Yeah.

1137
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:50,800
It's all over.
It's like, I mean, I I love, I

1138
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:55,680
always liked like 1968 was a
really just cool year for for

1139
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:56,200
music.
What?

1140
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:57,800
Which album did The Beatles put
out that year?

1141
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,960
68 would be.
I don't know, I don't want

1142
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,680
guessing me wrong.
OK, I I, I was hoping you would

1143
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,960
like confirm, but I mean, I'm
almost positive it's the White

1144
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,800
Album.
So like, how would you describe

1145
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,360
the White Album?
You know, it's like a it's like

1146
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,560
a sprawling thing and you know,
part of that is from like the

1147
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:17,840
different.
Yeah, nice.

1148
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:27,640
I I always loved there was like
just an area, an era of like,

1149
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,760
and a lot of it was in 1968
where just albums got to be

1150
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,720
really eclectic where it was
just like, you know, technically

1151
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:35,960
psychedelic.
But what does that even mean?

1152
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,200
You know, like, how do you what
what what is like psychedelia by

1153
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:40,760
numbers or whatever.
It's not like they're just

1154
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,360
things to it's like a state of
mind and it's just like it's an

1155
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:50,360
exciting thing to listen to that
he just often jumps genres and

1156
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,960
and styles and and stuff like
that and but maybe has like a

1157
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:59,200
cohesive thread through it.
So it's like, yeah, I'm, I'm all

1158
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,920
over on this thing.
There's there's bluegrass,

1159
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,080
there's rock'n'roll.
There's like country

1160
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:08,920
psychedelia.
There's like spaghetti western

1161
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,720
type stuff.
Rockabilly.

1162
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,400
I don't know.
It's it's it.

1163
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,840
It sprawls like every, every
song we did.

1164
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:18,280
It was interesting.
We I'd never done a record this

1165
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,560
way, but we would start each
song uniquely.

1166
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,880
Like a lot of times you go into
a studio and you'll record drums

1167
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,200
and bass for every song right
away and then build on top of

1168
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,120
those one by one.
But this time we would we

1169
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:32,800
actually did it in the order of
the record too.

1170
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,440
But like we would start on a
song, work on it until it was

1171
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,320
done, and then go on to the next
song and then start on it

1172
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,120
entirely and work on it until it
was done.

1173
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:43,040
And then yeah, I'd never been a
part of something like that.

1174
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:48,800
But it's it still has like a I'd
like to think it has a threat of

1175
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,440
like my own peculiar morality
like that runs through it or my

1176
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:57,680
wisdom that is like there's like
themes and you know, stuff that

1177
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:01,520
only I'll really notice maybe.
But yeah, I think, I think we

1178
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,760
pulled it off and then got a
great mastering job of Justin

1179
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,800
Perkins down in Madison to
really kind of just give it like

1180
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,000
a cohesive vibe throughout.
Are you a Doors fan?

1181
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,000
I like the doors, yeah.
Some of that stuff, some of that

1182
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,280
stuff makes me think of their
music in a way.

1183
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,960
Like you there was there was
always a cohesive blend to all

1184
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,120
door songs, like with Ray
playing the the organ and stuff.

1185
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:33,760
But like there's so many
different like like you people

1186
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,640
label it as like psychedelic
music, but there's so many

1187
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:38,240
different layers of that.
For The Doors.

1188
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:42,120
There's like Spanish caravan
with like the Go guitar and then

1189
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:45,400
there's like, you know,
Roadhouse Blues with the car and

1190
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,640
then just like the the backbeat
and stuff.

1191
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,760
And I don't know, that's that's
what flows through my mind when

1192
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,320
I hear something like that.
It's like, I think that's how

1193
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:55,520
that's probably how Jim thought,
man, I don't.

1194
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,840
Think he was trying to like?
He was trying to make a

1195
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,120
streamlined, you know, sound
from beginning to end.

1196
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:03,360
I think he just kind of had
words that he wanted to get out.

1197
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:07,440
No, totally.
And he's Jim Morrison was a a

1198
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,520
big fan of Friedrich Nietzsche
2.

1199
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,160
So am I.
And that's he's all over my

1200
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:17,920
album like that in that regard.
Yeah, so big fan of writing in

1201
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:19,520
general.
Do you know how The Doors got

1202
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:21,480
their name?
The band The Doors got their.

1203
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,040
Name it was.
Aldous Huxley, The Doors of

1204
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,160
Perception.
I have way too much of that

1205
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:32,200
rubbish up here, yeah.
Man, it's kind of what I thought

1206
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,200
of.
And then another question, do

1207
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:36,200
you listen to Billy strings?
You know Billy strings at all.

1208
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,880
I have like seen videos online.
I like he seems like a talented

1209
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,160
player and like kind of a unique
character.

1210
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,920
Like I've kind of heard a bit
about his story and all and but

1211
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:47,480
yeah, I don't.
I don't know if he has actual

1212
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:51,080
songs like the the biggest thing
with like talented players is

1213
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,880
it's like cool, but what are you
going to what are you doing with

1214
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,200
it?
You know people who just like

1215
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,040
play just a shock with their
virtuos virtuosity.

1216
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,720
It's just like, it doesn't.
And I'm not saying that's him.

1217
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:03,040
I honestly don't know.
I haven't.

1218
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:04,320
I haven't checked him out enough
to.

1219
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:08,080
What do you think of him?
Oh, I know he's like a slick

1220
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:09,400
player.
Like I've seen him playing with

1221
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,600
other people and like just
taking solos and it's like, Dang

1222
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,800
dude, like that's like there's
like no, like between like

1223
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,320
thought and expression.
Like there's like there's like

1224
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:20,920
nothing.
There's like no space.

1225
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,440
Like he's just yeah.
Yeah, he does that classic

1226
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,200
guitar thing.
When someone's like really good

1227
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,800
at the guitar, their mouth moves
when they play and it's like

1228
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,560
it's almost like it's coming out
of his mouth at the same time.

1229
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:33,400
Interesting.
I don't.

1230
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,200
Know if you've ever.
Seen it, I mean, not not for

1231
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,120
him.
I mean, I used to like, laugh my

1232
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:42,280
head off watching John Mayer,
like look like he was trying to

1233
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:47,800
like bite his elbow.
But like, I don't know.

1234
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,520
It's tough to know how much of
it is is for show, how much of

1235
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:52,800
it is just like raw passion and
what not.

1236
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,040
But I know.
Again, I don't know anything

1237
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:57,120
about Billy Strings in that
regard or whatever.

1238
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,280
Like he seems like a good guy.
It just made me think of it

1239
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,720
because he's like psychedelic
bluegrass like he.

1240
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,200
Oh truly.
Melded two types of music

1241
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,680
together.
He's got like a like the really

1242
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,040
like obviously like jammy stuff
of bluegrass.

1243
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,640
Sure.
But like there's a there's a

1244
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,800
flair about it that brings it
into like that psychedelic

1245
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,439
realm.
It's musically it's

1246
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,680
unbelievable.
He's a he's a he's a good

1247
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,000
songwriter.
Like, I don't know.

1248
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,560
I'm.
I'm a songwriter.

1249
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,640
Like Snob, I guess like.
Good man.

1250
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,640
Like why would you fill your
yeah like he's.

1251
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,399
Got a couple that went really,
really viral.

1252
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:37,960
Like he's got a song called
Dustin a Baggie that was really

1253
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,080
creatively written and stuff.
So I mean, he's good.

1254
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:42,760
He's not like Isabel or
something like that though.

1255
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:45,439
It's like blowing your doors off
with his songwriting.

1256
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:51,560
But yeah, he just a unique blend
of music put together.

1257
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,800
What about Sturgill?
Do you listen to Sturgill?

1258
01:08:54,800 --> 01:09:01,760
I take him, I I I have the.
I think it's the second one,

1259
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,560
the.
Metamodern sounds.

1260
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
OK.

1261
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,439
And like it's it's interesting.
It's, it's it's interesting with

1262
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:15,279
what he did.
I only recently heard some stuff

1263
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:17,160
of his notes like, dude, this is
awesome.

1264
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:18,680
What, what?
When did this come out?

1265
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,040
And it was his first album,
which like, I think like a lot

1266
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,439
of like Sturgill hardcore fans
kind of like.

1267
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:25,359
That's where they came.
From I kind of, well, no.

1268
01:09:25,359 --> 01:09:27,439
I kind of got the sense that
everyone kind of like snug their

1269
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,760
nose that including him where
he's just like, oh, I'm just

1270
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,359
trying to rip off my idols and
it's like, dude, that's cool.

1271
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:35,160
I love your idols like that's
and that's really hard to do And

1272
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,520
they were like clever songs.
It was just like sweet playing.

1273
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:41,439
So I want to I want to check
that one out a little bit more.

1274
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:43,439
That's that's when I became a
Sturgill.

1275
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,680
Fan that first record.
With that out, like I think like

1276
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:51,800
that's like life of sin.
He's got a song called You Can

1277
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:55,320
Have the Crown that's really
like creatively written in it.

1278
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:59,320
I think I heard that one, yeah.
Yeah, so clever guy.

1279
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:03,480
That early stuff was great.
And then he almost like you

1280
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:05,920
could tell he deliberately
painted himself out of that box.

1281
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,440
Like you were just saying.
Because he didn't.

1282
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:11,320
And like, that's fine.
I just it's it's kind of a shame

1283
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,280
like it.
It just seems like when an

1284
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:18,480
interesting artist comes out
now, like the piranhas, just

1285
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:21,040
like Swarm, like it's like, wow,
something interesting.

1286
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:22,480
Get it, get it.
Like exploit it.

1287
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:25,760
Like wow.
But like, you know, like Amy

1288
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,000
Winehouse was one or it was just
like, wow, Cool.

1289
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:33,560
Fall Out Boy was like another
one where it's just like these

1290
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:35,880
people don't have a chance to
like breathe and live.

1291
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:39,880
I I think like, there's just so
it's so rare when there's some

1292
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:43,360
kind of crossover success or
whatever, or like there's just,

1293
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:46,600
I think there's the very low
tide of creativity right now.

1294
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,480
So when you get someone who's
actually creative and people

1295
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:53,040
like it and it connects with
people, it's like, it's just

1296
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:57,120
just there's like a rabid
deconstruction of it or whatever

1297
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:58,760
and just almost like a
suffocation of it.

1298
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:05,840
And you see these people either
kind of, I don't know, like self

1299
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,960
immolate or whatever and and
some sad cases or otherwise.

1300
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:14,760
I feel like there's this sort of
disingenuous like self backlash

1301
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:16,840
or something where it's like you
think I'm going to do this,

1302
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,400
Well, I'm going to do this.
And it's just like, what about

1303
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:20,720
you actually want to do like,
why?

1304
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:26,080
Like it's still I I don't know
how you could block out all that

1305
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:30,880
stuff to not react to it, but it
just like it felt like for me.

1306
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:36,920
I I wish that Sturgill would
have maybe just like, I don't

1307
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:38,360
know.
Maybe he like did what he always

1308
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:39,760
wanted to do.
Maybe that was like the record

1309
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:43,040
and maybe he needed to do the
one kind before he can make what

1310
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,320
he really wanted to do.
Maybe, I don't know.

1311
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,160
But it also just it just sort of
seen this just phenomenon for a

1312
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,600
couple people are like, you know
I don't I don't care about Fall

1313
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:52,440
Out Boy at all.
But like it was just interesting

1314
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:56,320
from their first breakthrough
mainstream thing to like their

1315
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:58,280
next album.
It was like they're already like

1316
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:02,280
parodying themselves and stuff.
It was just like, come on.

1317
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,880
Like you're just just be who you
are.

1318
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,280
Like, who cares if you know,
whatever.

1319
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,760
Again, I I don't know how hard
it would be to have to block out

1320
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,640
all of that, all that noise.
Yeah, yeah.

1321
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,600
Yeah, it's, and I think a lot of
that.

1322
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:20,160
I think you're dead on it comes
with that meteoric rise.

1323
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,280
Like it'll be interesting to see
where Zach Bryan goes, like he

1324
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:28,280
seems like he's like every song
he writes is has a style of of

1325
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:33,320
like what he does, but like just
him like coming of age in like 2

1326
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,440
years and now selling out
massive arenas and stuff.

1327
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:37,920
That would totally mess with
somebody.

1328
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,360
I mean, like that would be
almost like traumatizing on some

1329
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:44,120
level.
Like fame I think is like, I

1330
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:48,200
love the band the Darkness and
their singer has this fantastic

1331
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:53,720
show YouTube channel and he had
a he had a just a line about

1332
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:57,160
like how fame is like a form of
trauma And he was like wow, it's

1333
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,040
kind of interesting.
Dude never really thought of it

1334
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:00,640
that way and like how much that
would mess with you.

1335
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:05,320
So I'll walk back my critique a
little bit and just say like, I

1336
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:08,640
would.
I like I can't you know like the

1337
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:18,280
idea of how's it going with this
the I'm just I totally lost him

1338
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:19,080
man.
I was thinking about the

1339
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:22,720
darkness now.
I saw those cat suits in my

1340
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:28,560
head.
Yeah man.

1341
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,720
You're right though.
Like the he's Zach Bryan's

1342
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:34,120
getting lambasted right now by
some people online because like

1343
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:38,480
he got arrested in Oklahoma and
he was like kind of he was like

1344
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:40,840
off putting to a cop.
Like he was kind of like.

1345
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,200
Oh, sure.
Like he got arrested and he

1346
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:45,720
ended up like and it was all
because his bodyguard got

1347
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,160
arrested but or got pulled over
and a couple days earlier he had

1348
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:50,760
like it had another interaction
with the cop.

1349
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,160
But it all stems from this fame
thing dude.

1350
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,360
Because like the whole reason
the cop got mad at him is

1351
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:59,440
because he said his address on
his license wasn't current when

1352
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:03,760
he got pulled over and he was
like reluctant to give that

1353
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:08,120
information.
Like I think rightfully so dude.

1354
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:11,520
Like 2 years into being like
massive, you know, you navigate

1355
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:13,040
that like.
Dude with his.

1356
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:15,160
Body cams and stuff like, you
know, it's going to go on

1357
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:17,960
YouTube.
And like I'm sure he's thinking

1358
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:20,440
in that moment like if I say my
address here like a bunch of

1359
01:14:20,440 --> 01:14:22,240
people know where I live, I'm
going to have to sell my house

1360
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:28,200
and move type like, so how did
he's not equipped to handle that

1361
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:30,520
when three years ago.
He's in the military.

1362
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,720
He's just like an everyman.
You know.

1363
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,400
And now?
Now he's getting lambasted

1364
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:41,600
because of, like some decisions
he made, being reluctant to give

1365
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,280
his address.
Like, I I don't think it's

1366
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,160
probably a reflection of his
character.

1367
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,240
It's a reflection of a mind
space that you're in from that,

1368
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:50,680
like meteoric rise.
And then to to deal with that

1369
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:55,000
and just kind of like get like
listen to the music that's in

1370
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,520
your head like and and reproduce
like what I was trying to think

1371
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:00,080
of earlier was just this the
concept, the famous concept that

1372
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,520
you have your whole life to
write your first album and then

1373
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:05,120
like a year to write your
second.

1374
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:09,320
You know like to where it's just
like during that noisy period

1375
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:12,240
after you rise.
You know you had just such

1376
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:19,320
luxuries of creativity and you
know like coaxing the muse to

1377
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:22,240
like in all these ways and it's
like you just it'd be it'd be

1378
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:24,960
tough to trust your yourself and
trust your instincts in that

1379
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:29,640
whole new level.
So I do have sympathy for those

1380
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:31,440
people.
Yeah, it seems like that was.

1381
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:34,280
That's maybe what happened to
Tyler Childers a little bit do.

1382
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:34,920
You.
Oh, really?

1383
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:36,320
I think so.
Like I'm.

1384
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:38,760
I'd like Zac Bryant.
I'd like Tyler Childers.

1385
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:41,320
I'd like these.
I'm like peripherally aware of

1386
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:42,240
these people.
I gotcha.

1387
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:48,000
I have like, admittedly the
opposite of recency bias when it

1388
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,640
comes to music.
Like if something is new, I am

1389
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,480
like there's like a mountain of
skepticism it must overcome and.

1390
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,520
It's before I I was just
listening to the episode of

1391
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,680
Jelly Roll on Joe Rogan and
Jelly Roll was like, I don't

1392
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,440
listen to music that made was
made after that.

1393
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:05,760
I can't remember what year he
said 1975 or something.

1394
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:06,600
He's.
Like I don't.

1395
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:09,840
I don't listen to it.
So I did it, man.

1396
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:13,520
Who are who are some of your,
like, songwriting inspirations?

1397
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,280
Like, who do you look up to as a
songwriter?

1398
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,400
I really do like a lot of the
country songwriters I've really

1399
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,400
like.
One of my favorites is Roger

1400
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:27,720
Miller, just 'cause he's so
clever and does so much with so

1401
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,400
little.
But I I don't know, I've gotten

1402
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:35,680
more kind of into just the
sounds of music as well.

1403
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,920
Like I was always very like
structural and trying to like

1404
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:44,080
fit the right words in and maybe
maybe writing words a bit burst

1405
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,840
and trying to shoehorn him into
songs and stuff like that.

1406
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,720
But I mean I like I love I love
Elvis.

1407
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:53,920
Like it's like if I if I had
like Desert Island artist like I

1408
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:57,000
would just bring Elvis's
catalogue just cause it's huge

1409
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,320
and just like the songwriting
it's just impeccable.

1410
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:01,840
So that's a you know those are
the best songwriters in the

1411
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:03,960
world at the time so it almost
should be.

1412
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,720
But I don't know.
Weirdly enough, I've the first

1413
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,600
time in my life I've.
I've kind of gotten into like

1414
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,040
80s music.
I've never cared about it

1415
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:15,600
before, but like now just the
production of it where it's just

1416
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:17,000
like, this is really
interesting.

1417
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:23,640
Like I love like Depeche Mode
and The Smiths and gosh, like my

1418
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:26,360
worst now lately is 90s and it's
Oasis.

1419
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:29,120
Like, I just like, I'm like, I'm
just, I'm crazy about like

1420
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,080
British music from like getting
more current.

1421
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:33,440
Yeah, I'm getting there, man.
I'm getting there.

1422
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:35,640
Yeah.
Oh man, it's so funny.

1423
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,880
Like, whenever I do find a new
band that I like, it's like The

1424
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,080
Darkness, where it's like, you
sound like you're from the 70s

1425
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:43,080
or like Shannon and the Clams
and you sound like you're from

1426
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:45,240
the 60s.
Or like, I find these bands

1427
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,320
that, like, I'd.
Well, I finally found one.

1428
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:51,720
Like, well, yeah, shocker.
It's like some dude who sounds

1429
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:53,280
like Elvis or something like
that, Yeah.

1430
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:57,200
And it makes me think of I was.
I can't even remember who I was

1431
01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,720
having a conversation with the
other day, but somebody told me

1432
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,920
they they watch, stop making
sense.

1433
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:05,000
The talking heads think once a
month, and I felt like it had to

1434
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:06,600
be an embellishment.
I was like, you watched that

1435
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,840
once, once a month.
Like, that's a pretty bold

1436
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:10,560
statement.
Yeah.

1437
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,080
And.
What could be gleaned after I

1438
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,560
know.
Just to keep keep the creative

1439
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:19,360
juices going I.
Guess just to keep those limbs

1440
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:22,280
limber.
Man, he knows I'm stiffing it

1441
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:23,200
up.
Better watch the movie.

1442
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,360
Yeah man.
So.

1443
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:36,920
So it sounds like solo album
Maddie Day verifies day out of

1444
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:41,120
five cutting trees.
Like, I don't know.

1445
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:44,360
Not that you maybe even have a
chance to sleep right now, but I

1446
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:46,240
would say I don't know when you
when you sleep.

1447
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:52,200
Gosh, I I mean, I I do OK.
It's just like I and like I I

1448
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,160
cherish these years like as much
as I possibly can.

1449
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:57,000
You know like when it's like
like what?

1450
01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:00,840
What a wonderful way to get
woken up by like my 2 year old

1451
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:04,680
son like coming and just like hi
daddy like right in my face like

1452
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:07,240
hey, all right cool gosh you're
cute.

1453
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:11,800
Like you know just yeah, so I I
don't know.

1454
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:15,200
I get by I almost find it's more
probably more important for me

1455
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:17,280
to make sure I'm getting
physical activity.

1456
01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:20,200
Like that's like the harder
thing that like there's almost

1457
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:24,760
like this selfish aspect about
like saying to my wife like can

1458
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:26,600
you handle all of them.
I'm going to go downstairs and

1459
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:29,240
weight lift and I don't want to
like whack one of the kids in

1460
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:31,600
the head with a dumbbell.
You know like I you know I'm

1461
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:35,720
where I'm basically just it
feels self indulgent but it also

1462
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:40,040
I don't know years ago I just I
found I needed physical activity

1463
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:43,080
as a means of getting out of my
brain getting into my limbs.

1464
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:48,600
It's about the closest thing to
like meditation that I that I do

1465
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:50,800
or like you know I go running a
few times a week.

1466
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:54,280
I never bring music with me.
It's it's just like I count my

1467
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:58,480
breaths and like that's like I
kind of clear my head and like

1468
01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:00,960
inadvertently and.
I have to do that.

1469
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:04,000
Like I I can, I can feel
something's wrong with me or

1470
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,160
like I'm getting edgy if it's
been a while since I've done

1471
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:12,480
something physical.
So, you know, it's it's a bit, I

1472
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:14,400
don't know, not once.
I don't want to discount sleep.

1473
01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:18,320
It's just like, yeah, I I really
need like the physical activity

1474
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:20,440
to just kind of feel like
myself.

1475
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,800
Yeah, myself.
I came to that realization later

1476
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:27,400
in my life than I thought I
would about how important the

1477
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,440
connection between that and just
like overall mental health is.

1478
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:34,720
And I think a lot of the reason
was because, like throughout my

1479
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:36,560
whole life, I did it just for
enjoyment.

1480
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:40,480
Like I played basketball a lot.
So I always, like, had those

1481
01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:44,320
outlets where I didn't have to
think about it and how it was

1482
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,680
benefiting me positively.
This is something I like doing.

1483
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:51,360
So I did it.
And then I I stopped playing

1484
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:55,320
basketball for a while.
And then towards the end of

1485
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,560
that, I was like, I started to
notice that thing where it was

1486
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:01,520
like the the anxiousness builds
up.

1487
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,200
Inside of you, yeah.
And I don't know, I don't know

1488
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:04,800
how to describe it then.
Maybe that's the right word or

1489
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,320
something.
Yeah, it's like, I think edgy

1490
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:09,760
was a very good way to put it
for me.

1491
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:13,560
And like, I, I and then I
somehow, like, seemingly made

1492
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,400
that connection where I was
like, OK, maybe I need to do

1493
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:16,560
that again.
So then I started playing

1494
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:17,800
basketball again and it was
fine.

1495
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:21,800
Nice.
But then in the spring, I

1496
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,320
sprained my ankle badly and I
haven't been able to play

1497
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,880
basketball since.
And I like, yeah, in the spring,

1498
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,760
yeah, I'm probably to the point
where now it's just a mental

1499
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:33,280
hurdle.
Like I think I'm back to.

1500
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:36,840
I could if I wanted to, but I've
like started finding other

1501
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:41,240
outlets.
Like in my younger years I I'd

1502
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:42,760
like to lifting weights and
stuff a lot.

1503
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:45,080
But then I I always kind of said
I would never do it again

1504
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:46,600
because it was never something I
enjoyed.

1505
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:50,160
I didn't feel like working
towards another thing, you know,

1506
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:53,840
but now I've been like doing it
for like enjoyment because of

1507
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:56,880
that.
Has to find a a way to kind of

1508
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:01,560
like let that out or let it in
whatever, whatever way you want

1509
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:03,560
to look at it.
Well, I mean the the other side

1510
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:07,480
effect is, you know, like my dad
was a runner and I always

1511
01:22:07,480 --> 01:22:10,280
totally took that is a runner
and I always took it for granted

1512
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:12,960
that, you know, he just did
that.

1513
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:18,360
And yeah, I like it just made it
so normal for me to think I'm

1514
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:19,840
going to go for a jog or
whatever.

1515
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:24,040
And now with my own kids, it's
like they see me exercising and

1516
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,880
stuff like that and they want to
do it like they and it's like

1517
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:29,880
wow, I hadn't thought of that at
all.

1518
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:34,360
Like maybe it's not totally self
indulgent after all but like my

1519
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:39,360
dad and me are going to we're
going to run the Turkey trot

1520
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,520
with my daughter this year and
it's just like you know it's

1521
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:45,720
just kind of cool, nice.
I like passing that on to them

1522
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,600
And I I never, I never thought
about like what how how you

1523
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:50,800
know.
It's not like I just decided one

1524
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:54,240
day I'm going to get some
running shoes and go out there.

1525
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:58,120
Like, you know, I I I was taught
it and it's kind of it feels

1526
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:02,080
good to to show them that it's
normal to do this thing that has

1527
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:04,040
helped me mentally and
physically.

1528
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:06,560
Yeah, yeah.
I think that's an important

1529
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,160
revelation that's really come to
light seemingly in like the last

1530
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:13,560
like you know I'd say five to
seven or ten years about how

1531
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:16,280
important it is the connection
to mental health.

1532
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:19,400
It's always been said you should
stay active and work out.

1533
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,320
That's always been said but
right never really.

1534
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:25,040
The why wasn't told behind it
very well I thought.

1535
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:30,040
And now it seems to be so
hopefully that it keeps trending

1536
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,800
in that direction I guess.
I think there's also a change.

1537
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:36,360
Like when you're younger, you
have this idea that you want to

1538
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:39,280
get built and like, yeah, six
pack and all this stuff and it's

1539
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:40,200
like.
Driven by ego.

1540
01:23:40,440 --> 01:23:42,360
Right.
Well, it's just like there's

1541
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:48,120
like this younger drive to want
to be like successful rather

1542
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:50,760
than valuable or you know, or
like, you know, it's like you

1543
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,320
want to look strong rather than
be strong or something like

1544
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:55,320
that.
It's like now it's like I don't

1545
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,520
care how I look or, you know, I
do, but it's not like that's not

1546
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:01,480
my driving force.
It's more just like, I want to

1547
01:24:01,480 --> 01:24:05,560
be able to, I want to be
physically healthy when I'm 80,

1548
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,960
You know, it's like that's like
way more what it is.

1549
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:13,240
Yeah, I want to be like, be able
to play with my grandkids and

1550
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:14,960
you know.
Yeah, yeah.

1551
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:20,680
The guest on our last show ran a
Boston Marathon when he was 72,

1552
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:24,200
and that amazed me.
And then he tried again.

1553
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:27,600
I don't want to get it wrong
here, but I think, he said.

1554
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:31,920
If I remember right, he tried
again at 80 and wasn't able to

1555
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,280
finish, but that's still
amazing.

1556
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:36,280
He's rather forgivable, yeah.
And he's like.

1557
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,200
To have the notion that you
might be able to do it at 80

1558
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:40,200
like.
Wow.

1559
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:42,120
Yeah.
Oh, that's nuts.

1560
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,120
Yeah.
So working towards that

1561
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:46,640
mountain, you know, is a lot
different than.

1562
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:48,920
His first was that his first
marathon or no, he must.

1563
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,280
He used to like you have to you
have to run a lot to get into

1564
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:53,120
the Boston right?
Yeah, he said.

1565
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,640
He had run like seven or eight.
I think he had done Boston in

1566
01:24:56,640 --> 01:25:02,520
New York like the bigger ones
but yeah when I hearing that

1567
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:06,320
like I don't know aspire to run
a marathon at 80 but if we're

1568
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:09,200
still around moving around and.
Look, it's interesting to see

1569
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:11,760
like, you know, we're we're kind
of getting to this time where

1570
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:15,280
we're seeing like some, you
know, life expectancies like go

1571
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:17,640
into just shocking.
Like people.

1572
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:20,920
Where it's like the fact that
anyone was like when in history

1573
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:24,360
would it have been whatsoever
fathomable that a person could

1574
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:30,000
run 26.2 miles, that even try to
run it at age 80 and you know,

1575
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:32,880
look at The Rolling Stones, what
they're doing, it's just sort of

1576
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:35,920
like, it's kind of just amazing.
This is this is uncharted

1577
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:39,520
territory where it's just like,
how how long can you rock it

1578
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:40,600
before the wheels fall?
Off.

1579
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:45,320
You know I just saw a video the
other day of ACDC playing live

1580
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:47,160
and him just doing the same
thing.

1581
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:49,160
He's always dressed up in the
same get up I.

1582
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,640
Thought.
That was amazing.

1583
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:59,320
And it like I what I thought in
that moment was like, is what's

1584
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:03,320
going through his mind.
I would like to know, like is he

1585
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:05,560
at that point where he's going
through the motions because

1586
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:10,560
like, you know, it's what he
does, it's who he's become.

1587
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:14,320
Or is that truly, like, still
his passion after all these

1588
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:17,320
years?
I mean, like, I I cannot picture

1589
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:21,440
Angus Young from ACDC playing
guitar, sitting still.

1590
01:26:21,440 --> 01:26:24,000
Like, I don't, I can't imagine
him just sitting there like

1591
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:26,400
working on his scales, like on a
bench or something.

1592
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,600
Like I can't, I can't imagine
it.

1593
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,240
So it like it very well just
might be one in the same.

1594
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:35,600
And you know, like the the stage
is a stimulant like so like as

1595
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:38,280
soon as you get out there, you
could be having it.

1596
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:39,720
It's weird.
You kind of have to have to rely

1597
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:42,720
on it sometimes where it's just
like I'm not feeling this right

1598
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:44,320
now.
And then like, it's kind of like

1599
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:46,960
the second you get out there,
you just kind of tap into

1600
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:50,040
something and it's like, oh
shoot, here we go, This is, this

1601
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:54,360
is going to work.
And I, this is really stupid.

1602
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:58,160
But Mick Jagger visited me in a
dream years ago and I asked him

1603
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:01,640
how he kept going and he and he
said it hurts more every time.

1604
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:03,760
And I was like, Dang, what a
thing to consider.

1605
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:05,480
Yeah.
Thanks.

1606
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:12,800
Dream Nick.
It's whatever works.

1607
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,560
It gets harder every time.
Yeah, Which, you know, it's not

1608
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,040
a bad lesson in appreciation.
And if you think it's hard now,

1609
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,440
you know, check back in 10 years
or whatever.

1610
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:30,120
Man, Well, I appreciate you
coming and chatting, Maddie.

1611
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:33,320
Dude, love this.
Your projects are cool.

1612
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:36,880
I I'm excited to see the website
launch.

1613
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:38,760
Thanks man, should be pretty
slick.

1614
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:44,000
Yeah, what?
So I guess I won't dig too deep

1615
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:45,880
because I don't know how much
you want to keep secret.

1616
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:47,280
Oh, sure.
About the website.

1617
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:49,600
Launched away man.
I'm excited to see it.

1618
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:53,080
Best of luck, Dad.
Times five.

1619
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:55,240
I hope everything keeps going
well.

1620
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:58,160
Thanks man.
And it was a pleasure chatting

1621
01:27:58,160 --> 01:27:59,680
for a little.
Bit dude, thanks so much for

1622
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:00,080
having me.