Oct. 16, 2023

Matt Williams - Fungi, Mushroom Food Plots, and Mycology - Ep.#5

Show Notes
Transcript

Matt Williams is a mushroom expert, organic farmer, business owner, hunter, and an adventure sports guide. His excitement about his new business MycoHabitat, creating mushroom plots for deer hunters and land owners, is only rivaled by his other business, Shiitake Creek, and mushrooms in general. Matt and Brad talk about mycology, deer and mushrooms, psychoactive benefits of fungi and the history of mushroom research, and the mushroom's place is agriculture.

1
00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:21,170
You Dave Grohl fan?
Dave Grohl, Yeah, yeah, he's one

2
00:00:21,170 --> 00:00:23,890
of my favorite humans.
You're talking about my tattoo.

3
00:00:23,930 --> 00:00:26,370
Yeah, you're learning the fly
tattoo on the inside of your

4
00:00:26,370 --> 00:00:29,930
forearm there.
Yeah, so this one's actually not

5
00:00:30,170 --> 00:00:32,210
Foo Fighters, though.
This is Tom Petty.

6
00:00:32,650 --> 00:00:35,050
Oh yeah, yeah, Tom Petty.
That's my favorite song of all

7
00:00:35,050 --> 00:00:37,050
time.
But yeah, Dave Grohl fan too, I

8
00:00:37,050 --> 00:00:39,960
actually.
I saw the Foo Fighters open up

9
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,600
for Tom Petty.
I believe I saw Tom quite a few

10
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,040
times throughout the year.
So I love they grow.

11
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,360
I mean, obviously he was a
member of Nirvana and so for any

12
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,720
90s kid, that's the pinnacle,
yeah.

13
00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,680
And then in addition of that, it
between him trolling the

14
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,440
Westboro Baptist Church, that's
one of his favorite things in

15
00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,800
life.
Yeah, is the to roll by them

16
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,120
with like dressed up as Jesus,
playing some good funky tunes

17
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,840
and give them a lecture about
loving people and stuff like

18
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,040
that.
And then he also feeds homeless

19
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,200
a lot.
He has a big BBQ.

20
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,160
He loves his, you know, BBQ,
smoke meat and stuff like that.

21
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,360
And so he, you know, if there's
a disaster or whatever in the

22
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,200
area, he'll roll out the BBQ
truck and trailer and just go

23
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,840
give away a bunch of food or
some great people and stuff like

24
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,440
that.
If we have more Dave girls in

25
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,000
this world, it'd be awesome.
And I love me some Tom Petty

26
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,120
too.
Yeah, just people like that.

27
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,400
In general it's awesome to see
the like the you get to a

28
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,320
certain level and and it has to
be like how did I get all this

29
00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:42,320
stuff right and then and the
people that might even do with.

30
00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,080
It, yeah.
And the people that go out of

31
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,560
their way, you hear a lot of
cool stories about Shaq like

32
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,720
that, too.
So my aunt played basketball

33
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,730
with him in Central Florida.
Oh, really?

34
00:01:51,770 --> 00:01:53,050
Yeah, she was on the women's
team.

35
00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:55,770
Yeah.
And then she, I mean just for

36
00:01:55,770 --> 00:01:58,570
whatever it's worth, subtle
brag, but no shack, you know?

37
00:01:59,050 --> 00:02:02,930
And she said he's the most
hilarious, realist ass person

38
00:02:02,930 --> 00:02:05,690
you ever met in your life.
You know, give you the shirt off

39
00:02:05,690 --> 00:02:08,330
of his back to help you.
You know, the whole thing that

40
00:02:08,330 --> 00:02:10,850
Willie Nelson, you know, same
thing all those guys, that

41
00:02:10,889 --> 00:02:13,410
Oliver Anthony guy that just
blew up.

42
00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:17,450
I mean I love seeing real humans
like that that you know, want to

43
00:02:17,450 --> 00:02:19,730
do good in the world with with
what they are.

44
00:02:19,890 --> 00:02:21,870
Keanu Reeves There's another
great one.

45
00:02:23,070 --> 00:02:25,350
Yeah.
And you know, like you can

46
00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:27,310
always tell the difference.
Like there's a lot of PR

47
00:02:27,310 --> 00:02:31,110
campaigns that say that, but
there's the genuine, authentic

48
00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:34,630
people that live that, you know.
And I think that shines through

49
00:02:34,790 --> 00:02:37,190
most of the time.
I don't know much about Oliver

50
00:02:37,190 --> 00:02:40,550
Anthony yet.
I I saw, I saw he got on Rogan.

51
00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:42,030
He had an episode of Rogan
Hours.

52
00:02:42,070 --> 00:02:45,150
I haven't watched it, but.
Neither have I I don't know.

53
00:02:45,190 --> 00:02:49,780
That's got to be a trip go from
a factory worker and a farmer's

54
00:02:49,780 --> 00:02:54,900
market vendor to yeah, I mean
it's going to be called Oliver

55
00:02:54,900 --> 00:02:57,300
Anthony at this point.
You know from here on out if

56
00:02:57,300 --> 00:02:59,700
anyone grabs that, that moment
of fame like that, but signed

57
00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:02,540
$100 million record contract.
Did he actually sign?

58
00:03:02,540 --> 00:03:05,220
Yeah, they were offering him
like 40 and 60 and he just

59
00:03:05,220 --> 00:03:07,420
basically made it in a big
bidding war and.

60
00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:11,140
The last time I saw he was he
was turning down most of the the

61
00:03:11,140 --> 00:03:13,460
record deals that he was
getting, but hopefully he found

62
00:03:13,460 --> 00:03:15,960
a good match.
That but man, I just can't

63
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,360
imagine that's kind of he would.
It happened to him even faster

64
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,360
than like the Zach Bryan story.
Zach Bryan happened quickly, but

65
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,480
he had at least a year to kind
of wade through the waters

66
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:27,840
because he was still in the
military.

67
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,960
So they had to.
Did you ever hear that story did

68
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:30,720
you?
A little bit of it.

69
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,320
I haven't heard the whole thing.
Man, so he he was telling this

70
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,040
story and finally his military
leaders.

71
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,920
Had a meeting with him and told
him like it's it's kind of time

72
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,560
to go, man.
Like this is going to be not

73
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,720
really a conflict of interest
but this is kind of like a

74
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,960
distraction and like you got
some bigger fish to fry now and

75
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,400
he didn't know he was a big
star.

76
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,240
But as big as he was, I don't.
I still don't know that he does.

77
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,200
He's a pretty seems like a
pretty humble guy.

78
00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,760
The man.
Yeah, I can't imagine that

79
00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:04,600
overnight fame that is, from
just a fellow with the guitar

80
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,920
singing in front of a deer blind
while your dog watches.

81
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,780
You you know, by the way, that
deer blind in the background,

82
00:04:09,780 --> 00:04:11,780
that video is totally shot.
He's not going to be able to

83
00:04:11,780 --> 00:04:16,260
hunt that thing for opener,
although I imagine he'd give him

84
00:04:16,260 --> 00:04:19,220
a new one.
But yeah, till weeks later.

85
00:04:19,220 --> 00:04:23,260
Would he have like 17,000 people
packed into that little venue

86
00:04:23,260 --> 00:04:27,100
there at Maggie's farm and from
there just say went even more

87
00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:29,420
nuts?
So yeah, congratulations to him

88
00:04:29,420 --> 00:04:33,580
on being him. 100% yeah.
It's it's amazing to see that

89
00:04:33,580 --> 00:04:36,060
happen, how everybody wants to
start painting their pictures,

90
00:04:36,060 --> 00:04:38,630
right?
And I'm just happy for the dude.

91
00:04:38,870 --> 00:04:41,190
I don't even know him yet, but
it's awesome to see somebody.

92
00:04:41,190 --> 00:04:43,630
I love that he didn't lose
himself in all this yet.

93
00:04:43,630 --> 00:04:46,350
He's not yet.
Yeah, he's just that simple

94
00:04:46,350 --> 00:04:53,240
humble ass guy that and he's
he's so far maintained that, you

95
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,240
know, and I really like that
that's what would get him

96
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,280
through life.
And I believe he's in talks with

97
00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:00,240
Willie Nelson to take over Farm
Aid or do something big with

98
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,800
Farm Aid.
Interesting.

99
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,600
I know one of my colleagues said
she's going to, she's

100
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,480
volunteering at Farm Aid in
Indiana this year.

101
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,240
So yeah, I grew up in Indiana.
So Farm Aid is a big part of,

102
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,480
you know, culture and life if
you're an American farmer

103
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,720
growing up in Indiana, in
Indiana.

104
00:05:17,230 --> 00:05:18,830
Yeah, hence the Colts fanship.
Right.

105
00:05:18,830 --> 00:05:20,510
So yes.
Yeah, go coats.

106
00:05:21,910 --> 00:05:23,830
Man, So what?
What got you into mushrooms?

107
00:05:23,830 --> 00:05:25,750
Talking about?
You know, growing up and stuff?

108
00:05:25,750 --> 00:05:26,990
Has it always been a thing?
What?

109
00:05:26,990 --> 00:05:29,310
What got you into mushrooms?
I mean, I like food.

110
00:05:30,110 --> 00:05:32,150
So this is some of the best food
out there.

111
00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:37,670
I grew up poor, you know, and so
with that, you, you hunt, you

112
00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:41,790
fish and you forge.
And so my grandfather was a

113
00:05:41,790 --> 00:05:45,100
career Air Force man, and he was
always going to the library.

114
00:05:45,380 --> 00:05:48,580
And he taught me how to teach
myself anything as a small

115
00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:50,380
child.
And I would get in trouble a lot

116
00:05:50,380 --> 00:05:52,300
and get locked in my room with
books too, you know.

117
00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:56,060
So I didn't hurt anything, but.
And I love outside.

118
00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:59,220
So it just kind of all came
together and I began to, you

119
00:05:59,220 --> 00:06:02,100
know, find out about edible
stuff and wild medicine whenever

120
00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:05,820
I was a little kid.
And then later on became an

121
00:06:05,820 --> 00:06:08,380
adventure sports guide and
learning how to, you know, use

122
00:06:08,380 --> 00:06:11,300
that to scrounge up a meal or
scrounge up elements to make

123
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:13,840
them heal better.
Especially when you're eating

124
00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:15,960
dehydrated crap food in the
middle of nowhere.

125
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,600
A few fresh mushrooms and a
couple of decent plants go a

126
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:24,120
long way to liven things up.
And then later on, and I started

127
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:25,640
the farm.
After I sold the White Water

128
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,080
rafting company, I became dad,
and I wanted to raise my kids on

129
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,680
farm produce and livestock.
You know, all that stuff.

130
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,720
But I started dabbling with
mushrooms and it didn't take

131
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,200
long for people were lined up
for those mushrooms.

132
00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,120
They they didn't care about the
15 different kinds of cherry

133
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,440
tomatoes or the kale or the best
lettuce around so much.

134
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,720
They were there for the
mushrooms lined up for the

135
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,600
market started and that kind of
just started the the whole

136
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,600
journey going to where I am now.
Boy, what a ride it's been.

137
00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:57,080
Yeah.
How long has it been?

138
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,400
Well, my son's 9 and whenever I
found out I was going to be a

139
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,360
dad's when I started the farm
full time.

140
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,960
So it'll be 10 in March,
cruising up on a decade of full

141
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,200
time farming.
Yeah.

142
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,480
So it was kind of the focusing
on mushrooms was kind of led by

143
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,080
demand organic farming in
generals of passion years.

144
00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,200
But yeah, I mean it goes both
ways.

145
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,960
No matter how good you are at
produce or livestock, monkey

146
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,400
see, monkey do, right.
So whatever creativity you're

147
00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,840
bringing to the table this year,
next year, everybody else is

148
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,000
going to emulate that to your
detriment, probably, right?

149
00:07:31,390 --> 00:07:34,110
With fungi, especially at the
time I started messing with

150
00:07:34,110 --> 00:07:37,190
them, there really wasn't a ton
of information and resources

151
00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:39,630
available.
It was more of a faux pas still,

152
00:07:39,670 --> 00:07:44,470
and very culty, you know?
And then since then, Paul

153
00:07:44,470 --> 00:07:50,270
Stamits and Fantastic Fungi on
Netflix and Facebook groups and

154
00:07:50,270 --> 00:07:52,630
everything else kind of blown
all the doors wide open.

155
00:07:53,350 --> 00:07:56,670
But during that time period, it
was just kind of a thing that

156
00:07:56,670 --> 00:07:59,110
I'd always kind of liked.
I like mushrooms, you know.

157
00:07:59,110 --> 00:08:01,840
They're delicious.
And it's a thrill of the chase,

158
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,800
too, you know?
And to be honest with you, you

159
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,840
want to stand in a hot field or
in a hoop house working or in a

160
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,360
smelly old animal barn, or you
want to be in the shade.

161
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,320
That's pretty easy choice for a
guy like me who loves nature and

162
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,680
has always been an outdoorsman.
You get to walk around in the

163
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,800
forest and collect mushrooms as
part of my job.

164
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,600
Are you freaking kidding me?
You know, yeah.

165
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,660
Yeah, the.
The ecological parts of of

166
00:08:26,660 --> 00:08:29,500
mushrooms are, I think, just so
fascinating, right?

167
00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:32,140
Like you were talking a little
bit earlier about how they, the

168
00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:34,659
mushrooms, do the work for soil
amendments and stuff like that.

169
00:08:34,659 --> 00:08:38,179
But I recently learned, and you
can confirm this, this is just

170
00:08:38,179 --> 00:08:42,780
one of those in passing things.
But a mushroom is closer in

171
00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:45,860
biology to a human than like a
tomato plant.

172
00:08:45,980 --> 00:08:47,900
Oh yeah, yeah.
So if you look at the tree of

173
00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:51,670
life or you know that that the
evolution right.

174
00:08:51,910 --> 00:08:55,910
So plants and fungi plants
evolved out of fungi and they're

175
00:08:56,230 --> 00:08:58,670
the the evidence for this would
be mosses and lichens where

176
00:08:58,670 --> 00:09:02,510
they're pretty much half
mushroom half plant right long,

177
00:09:02,510 --> 00:09:06,550
long ago and then animals begin
to evolve out of fungi much,

178
00:09:06,550 --> 00:09:08,630
much later.
So we're basically giant

179
00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:12,590
mushrooms that have encapsulated
everything versus them the all

180
00:09:12,590 --> 00:09:17,670
their, the nervous system, you
know, the heart so to speak.

181
00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:22,860
It's all external and so it's
but we have nearly identical

182
00:09:22,860 --> 00:09:26,180
immune system.
They breathe oxygen in and CO2

183
00:09:26,180 --> 00:09:31,760
out just like we do.
And it's there's a lot of other

184
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,640
parallels, but yeah, we're
basically just giant walking

185
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,920
talking mushrooms that think
that we're sentient, you know?

186
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,360
Yeah, that's wild.
And I I learned a long time ago

187
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,920
there's that, like, supposedly.
I don't know if this is true.

188
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,600
The biggest mushroom like in the
world in crystal falls or

189
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,760
whatever.
So there's yeah, there's some

190
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,760
conjecture here.
We have to add the word

191
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,080
contagious.
Contagious means one big item,

192
00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,320
right?
There's another site in Oregon

193
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,160
at the Mauer Wildlife Refuge,
which I believe was the site of

194
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,200
the Bundy standoff.
Yeah, you know the where the

195
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:10,280
government murdered that guy and
sorry, he was shot Anyway, so

196
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,960
that one is big as well.
But and it's big enough to be

197
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,470
seen from space, but it's
pockets and so as the sum total,

198
00:10:18,470 --> 00:10:22,390
all of the pockets you know in
that area make up a larger site.

199
00:10:22,390 --> 00:10:25,390
Now the thing with the Crystal
site is it's still not known how

200
00:10:25,390 --> 00:10:27,510
large it is.
We're still sampling and every

201
00:10:27,510 --> 00:10:29,710
time they sample it gets about
100 times bigger.

202
00:10:30,430 --> 00:10:34,190
So it could very well be the
biggest, but it is proven to be

203
00:10:34,190 --> 00:10:37,710
the largest single site, meaning
the Crystal site is bigger than

204
00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:43,070
any of the other sites in Oregon
as long as you don't count them

205
00:10:43,070 --> 00:10:46,190
all as one big 1.
So it's it's a little bit of fun

206
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:48,950
fact and if you see the Michigan
Uhaul truck, that's why there's

207
00:10:48,950 --> 00:10:51,230
a giant mushroom on the side of
it if you didn't know that.

208
00:10:51,310 --> 00:10:52,070
I didn't know.
Yeah.

209
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:54,070
So you know how Uhaul does the
state thing?

210
00:10:54,110 --> 00:10:57,630
Well, Michigan's is the mushroom
because of the humongous fungus,

211
00:10:58,070 --> 00:11:00,750
right?
The honey mushroom in Alpha MI.

212
00:11:01,150 --> 00:11:02,910
That's fascinating.
So how does that work?

213
00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:06,830
Like when a when a mushroom does
that, what part of it is below

214
00:11:06,830 --> 00:11:08,510
the ground and what is it that
comes up?

215
00:11:08,830 --> 00:11:11,390
So what we think of as a
mushroom is a fruiting body,

216
00:11:11,390 --> 00:11:14,080
much like an apple tree gives
off an apple, right?

217
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,080
So the actual Organism itself
would be what looks like white

218
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,800
threads in the soil or on wood.
Or in this case, since it's a

219
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,320
honey mushroom, they'll be
rising more Switcher, thicker

220
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,600
black strands, but it's
predominantly just that white

221
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,640
mycelia.
Now we think of it as a 2, but

222
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,520
if we zoom in, that's actually a
subway system, right?

223
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,800
So the shuttling nutrients in
every direction.

224
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,070
And when we look at the
landscape around us, the entire

225
00:11:38,070 --> 00:11:41,030
landscape is made of this
architecturally, from the tip of

226
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:43,830
the top of the tree and every
leaf in it all the way down to

227
00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:47,150
the very root.
That tree is basically one giant

228
00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:51,670
mushroom architecturally as far
as those strands go, with plant

229
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:55,390
tissue in between.
And so it moves nutrients from

230
00:11:55,390 --> 00:11:57,750
the very tip of the tree all the
way through the soil food web.

231
00:11:57,750 --> 00:12:02,270
And then in the soil, of course,
it is just one giant dimensional

232
00:12:02,270 --> 00:12:05,590
spider web or architectural
spider web of that mycelium

233
00:12:06,010 --> 00:12:08,890
that's every direction all
around you at all times.

234
00:12:09,130 --> 00:12:11,570
And there are thousands of
different kinds of mushrooms

235
00:12:11,570 --> 00:12:15,370
that may make up that, but they
all work together in some way,

236
00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:20,130
shape or form to to shuttle.
So I just picture, like, when

237
00:12:20,210 --> 00:12:24,530
hearing you say that, I picture
like this network of, like you

238
00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:27,810
called it, a subway system, but
like a veins that just run

239
00:12:27,810 --> 00:12:32,010
throughout the entire natural
world that can how do they

240
00:12:32,010 --> 00:12:34,930
determine where they pop up the
fruit, Yeah, that's.

241
00:12:35,370 --> 00:12:37,090
So it could be climactic
conditions.

242
00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:40,010
It could be soil type.
It could be this tree owns this

243
00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:43,090
one portion of real estate and
it lives with that

244
00:12:43,090 --> 00:12:45,930
transymbiosis.
Of course, then there are

245
00:12:45,930 --> 00:12:48,090
mushrooms that occur on dead and
rotting things.

246
00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:50,650
Otherwise there'd be T Rex
carcasses stacked everywhere

247
00:12:50,650 --> 00:12:54,050
still and those come off of
that.

248
00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:57,370
Either the rot quote UN quote
yeah, meaning that the tree that

249
00:12:57,370 --> 00:13:00,970
it's on or the the stump or
whatever may be a piece of wood

250
00:13:00,970 --> 00:13:03,970
on the ground or it could be
coming out of the terrestrial or

251
00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:07,370
the the dirt associated with it.
That's part of the the real

252
00:13:07,370 --> 00:13:11,650
estate that that mushroom owns
is complex relationship, so it

253
00:13:11,650 --> 00:13:13,850
it gets real fun in a hurry.
And they're mushrooms that occur

254
00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:16,720
underwater.
There are mushrooms that occur

255
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,720
just in the Arctic underneath
the snow.

256
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,800
It's it's insane there.
If there's a chance for life to

257
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,040
occur, there's a good chance
that fungi have figured out a

258
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,360
way for it to happen on this
planet at this point.

259
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,770
And that's crazy.
That's so great.

260
00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:35,210
That has to be one of those
things where, like, you just

261
00:13:35,210 --> 00:13:37,650
dive in and there you can never
learn too much about it.

262
00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:39,810
Oh gosh, no, no.
We're still discovering new

263
00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:42,050
stuff all the time.
One of the really cool things

264
00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:44,730
that hit the world this year and
the they come out of the

265
00:13:44,730 --> 00:13:49,250
mycological world, was that
mushrooms Thermo regulate, so

266
00:13:49,250 --> 00:13:51,530
when we're out they heat and
cool themselves.

267
00:13:51,530 --> 00:13:54,970
We already know this as
cultivators because there could

268
00:13:54,970 --> 00:13:57,290
be snow sitting on top of a
mushroom.

269
00:13:57,290 --> 00:14:00,950
That's cold weather specific and
it could melt and then begin to

270
00:14:00,950 --> 00:14:04,390
regrow again right during the
melt free cycle and both spring

271
00:14:04,390 --> 00:14:06,950
and autumn.
This is pretty common and so

272
00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:12,830
this you know kind of anomaly
with that antifreeze let some

273
00:14:12,830 --> 00:14:15,230
people down a pretty interesting
path and what they found was

274
00:14:15,230 --> 00:14:18,150
that the fruiting bodies thermal
regulate too as part of this.

275
00:14:18,430 --> 00:14:20,670
So if it's a hot day and I'm
Morel hunting and I take a

276
00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:24,800
thermal image camera out, those
morels glow like solid white on

277
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,040
your your thermal image.
So you can well hunt a lot more

278
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,000
effectively in a hurry for
whatever it's worth.

279
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,960
And same thing on a cool day,
really, really cool day, they

280
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,080
kind of pop as a hotter spot in
the landscape.

281
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,040
And so that's just something
that just hit the that, you

282
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,040
know, the world this year
regarding mushrooms and it's

283
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,560
just one of those really amazing
things and there's always

284
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,680
something like this coming out.
So now there's a lot of people

285
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,000
probably trying to figure out
how they do that, right?

286
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,880
That's the first thing that
comes to your mind.

287
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,040
How is this possible?
And you know, and that's how

288
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,520
fungi are.
It's they're just oddly

289
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:06,120
mysterious and they're the
fastest growing sector of

290
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,080
biotech.
And what I'm really trying to

291
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,120
say is that mycology is the
fastest growing sector of

292
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,240
biology.
We know a lot about plants.

293
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,110
We've been studying them
forever, but we really don't

294
00:15:18,110 --> 00:15:21,230
know that much about fungi as a
whole, as a human species.

295
00:15:21,510 --> 00:15:24,910
And this is, you know, one of
those last great unknowns to

296
00:15:24,910 --> 00:15:27,270
explore scientifically.
And I'm just lucky to be a

297
00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:30,750
citizen scientist in the middle
of it and get to do my own.

298
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:34,030
Yeah, Yeah.
So what's it like foraging in

299
00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:35,510
our, like, neck of the woods?
What?

300
00:15:35,510 --> 00:15:37,110
What are some of the main ones
you find?

301
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:38,910
What do people like at the
farmers markets?

302
00:15:38,910 --> 00:15:40,270
What do you like?
Right.

303
00:15:40,270 --> 00:15:43,350
So all the classics that we
would consider here in North

304
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:48,060
America, which be morels,
chicken in the woods, all the

305
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:50,340
other woods, so hent of the
woods, shrimp of the woods,

306
00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:53,780
things like that.
Obviously Sean trails the

307
00:15:53,780 --> 00:15:57,020
lobster mushroom, the hedgehog
mushroom, black trumpets, those

308
00:15:57,020 --> 00:16:00,260
are kind of a fan favorite so to
speak up There are others, but

309
00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:03,860
that's a pretty decent sized
little list to get started with.

310
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,220
Foraging here is unlike foraging
anywhere else.

311
00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:10,780
And I say that because our
forest ecotypes are very

312
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:14,810
distinct here, where I live, 100
miles north of Green Bay in the

313
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:18,890
UP and around Iron Mountain is
where the boreal forest coming

314
00:16:18,890 --> 00:16:21,570
down from Canada and the Arctic
collides with the eastern

315
00:16:21,570 --> 00:16:23,490
hardwoods, all the oaks around
us, right?

316
00:16:23,890 --> 00:16:26,890
And then in addition to that,
we've got the western forest,

317
00:16:26,890 --> 00:16:30,490
which is those cottonwoods and
aspens coming out of the plains

318
00:16:30,490 --> 00:16:33,170
and those riparian zones that
collides too.

319
00:16:33,170 --> 00:16:36,290
So we have three different
ecotypes colliding here.

320
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,960
And you get up high, you may see
one, you get down low, you may

321
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,160
see another and you get down
near a bend in the river, you

322
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,200
can see all three.
And so because of that diversity

323
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,600
of tree species and then also
coupled with our short

324
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,280
decomposition window where I
live, which means that from the

325
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,600
time that the snow melts to the
time the snow flies again,

326
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,080
everything has to rot.
And that's the only window of

327
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,760
rot, right.
And so it's more accelerated

328
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,040
timeline.
So I get to see things in much

329
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,290
more rapid sequence than someone
else may who live somewhere

330
00:17:05,290 --> 00:17:07,490
where it doesn't snow or very
rarely snows.

331
00:17:08,050 --> 00:17:11,849
Their mushroom season spread out
much, much longer across the

332
00:17:11,849 --> 00:17:15,290
year versus ours, kind of jam
packed one on top of the other.

333
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,520
So we're the last people to see
spring mushrooms for the US and

334
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:21,960
the spring, but we're the first
people to see him.

335
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,680
Fraud of mushrooms.
Does that make sense?

336
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,800
Yeah, absolutely.
So you do you have certain type

337
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,720
of like times of the year where
you cook certain meals because

338
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,200
those mushrooms are available?
Yeah, eat locally, eat

339
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,720
seasonally, right?
That's the essence of local food

340
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,680
is when things are in, you try
to take advantage of that, and

341
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,080
then you try to preserve the
harvest, of course as well.

342
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:43,860
So if you ask me what my
favorite mushroom is, it's going

343
00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:45,820
to be whichever one's about to
come in the season.

344
00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:47,860
But I haven't had for a year
probably.

345
00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:51,180
Yeah, yeah, man, that's
fascinating.

346
00:17:51,180 --> 00:17:54,740
So that kind of you opened up
your new business with the with

347
00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:58,820
the like the mushroom food plots
and that was one part that you

348
00:17:58,820 --> 00:18:01,100
answered.
I didn't know that you said

349
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:03,380
there's some in the Arctic that
can do under go under snow.

350
00:18:03,380 --> 00:18:05,340
And that was the first thing
that came to my mind.

351
00:18:05,380 --> 00:18:09,220
Like what are those like?
Late season mushrooms and can

352
00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:12,100
they survive when more and more
people get into the woods, as we

353
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:16,460
get closer to the rut and stuff?
Because you think of how food

354
00:18:16,460 --> 00:18:19,860
plot activity changes and stuff
like that at that time of year

355
00:18:20,860 --> 00:18:22,780
that that could be a hidden gem,
man.

356
00:18:22,780 --> 00:18:25,260
I'm sure it's what led you to
the idea, but what's the what's

357
00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:27,780
the concept of it?
So, do you eat fungi?

358
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:30,340
This predates all of our human
involvement and habitat

359
00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:31,900
management.
I've been able to uncover

360
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:34,220
research as far back as the late
1880s.

361
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,120
So right from the very get go of
American gamekeepership, it's

362
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:41,760
been there, the scientists that
have dealt with it.

363
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,520
And then all the way up to the
60s and the early 70s, there was

364
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,560
a huge push about how important
this was to the deer.

365
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,200
And then I believe the rise of
psychedelic culture stunned that

366
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,400
or eliminated it from the
discussion of brows.

367
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,360
Kind of took over as the basis.
Instead of mast, mushrooms are

368
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,320
soft mast.
If you're a habitat manager, you

369
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,620
understand mass masses, acorns
and apples and berries and so

370
00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:05,300
on, and mushrooms fit into that
as well.

371
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,660
So we have hard mast and soft
mast, chestnuts, oaks, acre, and

372
00:19:09,660 --> 00:19:12,660
those are hard mass, soft mass,
Cool soft mass is more

373
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:15,820
palatable, especially to older
animals like an old buck with

374
00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:19,500
worn down teeth.
So it's a big draw and it's also

375
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:21,860
a huge source of phosphorus for
them.

376
00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:24,900
There's a fair amount of calcium
in there is the probably their

377
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:28,480
biggest source of vitamin D, and
there's about 30% mushrooms

378
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,160
depending on which type, of 30%
protein in mushrooms, depending

379
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,920
on which type of mushroom we're
talking about.

380
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:40,880
There's also a decent amount of
soluble, water soluble fat, and

381
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,400
there's a lot of water in
mushrooms too.

382
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,800
So for an animal that you know
doesn't like the frequent

383
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,320
watering holes where predators
may be, you're getting water in

384
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,080
your diet.
It's a big part of it as well,

385
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,000
but the real factor is that
mushrooms are composed of chitin

386
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,400
or chitin, right?
If you're a beef farmer, you

387
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,280
know what chittenases or
chitinases, which is an additive

388
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,520
you add to your beef feed to
increase the nutrient solubility

389
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,200
and uptake.
And that's basically lobster

390
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,320
shells and crab shells and cheap
chitin that they can get right

391
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,360
from waste resource.
Well, mushrooms are the most

392
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:16,240
readily and biosoluble form of
chitin, and so these deer.

393
00:20:17,010 --> 00:20:20,010
At least 25% of their diet at
least.

394
00:20:20,290 --> 00:20:22,250
And there's a lot of numbers
that go back and forth.

395
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:25,490
There's some reports out of, you
know that the especially in the

396
00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:29,170
late 70s or late 60s when this
is being studied, could suggest

397
00:20:29,170 --> 00:20:33,010
as much as 70% or more of their
diet during hunting season.

398
00:20:33,130 --> 00:20:35,690
And those areas was fungi
related.

399
00:20:36,370 --> 00:20:40,250
So as we progress into hunting
season, obviously at the

400
00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:42,970
beginning of hunting season, for
all of us that are archery

401
00:20:42,970 --> 00:20:45,860
hunters, there's more
opportunities because they're

402
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:49,260
more fungi in the landscape.
But as things begin to sin nest

403
00:20:49,260 --> 00:20:53,380
in the world around us, the menu
becomes smaller and that's where

404
00:20:53,380 --> 00:20:55,260
we can really take advantage of
it.

405
00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:57,500
If you have mushrooms and
they're not available around

406
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,020
you, or there's very few in the
landscape and you've got a large

407
00:21:00,020 --> 00:21:03,500
amount.
So there are ways to go about

408
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:06,860
that, but as they go in and
decline, there are fewer and

409
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:11,180
fewer and those targeted species
become more and more important.

410
00:21:11,660 --> 00:21:14,540
And with regards to mushrooms
appearing underneath the snow

411
00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:16,920
blanket, that does happen in the
most way.

412
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,320
Easily observable version of
this is going to be, let's say

413
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,160
we have a snow blanket sits here
for a month or so here in Green

414
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,760
Bay, and then it all melts kind
of rapidly.

415
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,120
You ever see the snow mold
covering the ground?

416
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,000
Yeah, it looks like cobwebs and
spider webs, right?

417
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,880
That's my celian brother.
That's fungi literally coming

418
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,160
out of the ground to eat and
stuff underneath there.

419
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,040
So there's specific cold weather
stuff.

420
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,680
And there are also mushrooms
that can and do fruit under

421
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,360
those scenarios.
And we're just beginning to

422
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,730
learn about all this.
And so I don't have any strategy

423
00:21:47,730 --> 00:21:51,250
for those under the snow
mushrooms yet, but I have pretty

424
00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:54,810
good strategy for the early part
of the season for us up here all

425
00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:59,690
the way into about freeze up.
Which, you know, the last few

426
00:21:59,690 --> 00:22:02,650
winters gets you really close to
that neighborhood anyway.

427
00:22:02,650 --> 00:22:06,410
Because, I mean, we haven't been
really seeing snow until mid to

428
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:09,930
late November anyway.
And then putting the food source

429
00:22:09,930 --> 00:22:13,780
there is going to make the deer
do things biologically like

430
00:22:13,780 --> 00:22:17,580
scrape and rub there.
And then even if there's not

431
00:22:17,580 --> 00:22:21,020
food there, you put out a a bowl
of food on your back porch every

432
00:22:22,220 --> 00:22:24,540
every night for a whole summer
and then you take it away.

433
00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:27,780
It doesn't matter if it's been
not there for a week or so,

434
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:29,900
they're still going to come
check to see if there's a meal,

435
00:22:30,380 --> 00:22:31,620
right?
And then in addition to that,

436
00:22:31,620 --> 00:22:33,220
they're still going to come
check that scrape.

437
00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:36,060
They're just going to continue.
That's part of their strategy is

438
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:38,060
to move through that area,
right?

439
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,060
They're going to look, and so
even if the food's not there,

440
00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:43,780
you still have a spot where
they're going to more than

441
00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:45,820
likely travel through and give
you an opportunity.

442
00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:48,540
It's way easier to kill a deer
in the woods than it is on an

443
00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:50,300
open field.
Anyone who's on or, I'll tell

444
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:52,500
you that deer don't like to be
out in the open.

445
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:56,300
It's against their nature.
So we do this in shade and in

446
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:58,940
cover back in the timber.
We don't have to have an open

447
00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:02,140
ground to grow a mushroom.
We actually need it to grow in

448
00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:03,700
the woods because it loves
shade.

449
00:23:04,220 --> 00:23:06,700
Yeah.
Yeah, there's some fascinating

450
00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:10,940
kind of research and like collar
studies that show like the the

451
00:23:10,940 --> 00:23:15,020
size of an area that especially
a mature buckle stay in and they

452
00:23:15,020 --> 00:23:19,020
get up and feed frequently, but
it's within 100 yards of where

453
00:23:19,020 --> 00:23:21,620
they are.
You know, much easier to do that

454
00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:24,980
with mushrooms and having that
be their source of food than it

455
00:23:24,980 --> 00:23:27,820
is to what you know.
We think of a deer going out in

456
00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:31,580
a Cloverfield Exactly.
So last year I broke a bowl in a

457
00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:36,430
week before the start of archery
opener and I was given a loaner

458
00:23:36,430 --> 00:23:38,910
crossbow that just it wasn't
going to work, it was going to

459
00:23:38,910 --> 00:23:41,510
skip an arrow off and I don't, I
don't wound deer, I'm out there

460
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:43,190
to do, you know, clean ethical
kills.

461
00:23:43,910 --> 00:23:46,630
So Long story short, I just left
that in my truck and I took my

462
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:49,270
camera and I would go cut a
track, the biggest buck track I

463
00:23:49,270 --> 00:23:51,830
could cut.
Then I'd fall that into bedding

464
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:54,350
and I'd probably jump him out
most of the time.

465
00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:56,630
But I'd document what mushrooms
were being eaten in those

466
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:59,550
bedding areas and did it over
and over and over and over and

467
00:23:59,550 --> 00:24:01,070
over and over throughout the
whole season.

468
00:24:01,630 --> 00:24:03,910
And I ended up eating my
restricted tag, which in

469
00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:08,230
Michigan is 4 points plus on one
side, basically because I blew

470
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:10,790
up too many of my good spots by
doing this.

471
00:24:11,630 --> 00:24:14,150
And then when late season came
around, it just wasn't working

472
00:24:14,150 --> 00:24:19,350
out for me.
But Long story short was, yeah,

473
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:20,790
this is that.
You're right.

474
00:24:20,790 --> 00:24:22,310
They do.
They get up and they move.

475
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:24,430
There's no such thing as an
October lull.

476
00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:27,610
They're they know that the
pressure's on.

477
00:24:27,610 --> 00:24:30,010
It's all human pressure.
If there was no human pressure,

478
00:24:30,010 --> 00:24:32,290
they get up and move across
those fields like you always see

479
00:24:32,290 --> 00:24:33,970
them.
At the moment someone shoots an

480
00:24:33,970 --> 00:24:36,730
arrow with them or one of their
friends, everything changes.

481
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:40,290
And then there's more and more
humans pile in, more and more

482
00:24:40,290 --> 00:24:43,850
changes, right?
So finding those pockets in

483
00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:47,930
those spots that are overlooked
and have food in them, whether

484
00:24:47,930 --> 00:24:51,810
it's a white oak tree or a bunch
of red oaks or mushrooms and

485
00:24:51,810 --> 00:24:54,510
white oaks, right?
That's the name of the game.

486
00:24:54,510 --> 00:24:57,190
Whenever you're looking for one
specific animal, you've got to

487
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:59,790
find his bed, you got to find
out what he's eating, and you

488
00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:02,190
got to take advantage of one of
those two out those things.

489
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:05,230
And So what I try to do is get
between food and bedding as

490
00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:07,950
close as I can to bedding
without jumping them off and try

491
00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:10,350
to intercept on the way out.
I don't like to hunt over food

492
00:25:10,350 --> 00:25:12,310
plots.
I have food plots they're

493
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:14,630
getting, it's a labor of love
and they're getting to be

494
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:16,310
beautiful.
But I don't hunt on them.

495
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:19,110
I hunt back off of them 20-30
yards in the timber.

496
00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:22,290
I'm trying to catch them coming
in and going out or even further

497
00:25:22,290 --> 00:25:26,850
back in the timber, right?
And that's just a great strategy

498
00:25:26,850 --> 00:25:28,570
for all deer hunters, in my
opinion.

499
00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:31,370
Yeah, absolutely.
You know what this reminds me

500
00:25:31,370 --> 00:25:33,250
of?
You're talking about the, like,

501
00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:35,730
what composes a mushroom and why
they might eat them.

502
00:25:36,050 --> 00:25:39,650
I learned recently that I don't
know if it's all species of

503
00:25:39,650 --> 00:25:42,570
elephants, but what an elephant
they have.

504
00:25:43,740 --> 00:25:49,180
Proven that the female elephants
will eat a specific plant at a

505
00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:52,260
certain time in the year when
they're pregnant because they

506
00:25:52,260 --> 00:25:56,380
know that it induces labor.
So like like elephants take

507
00:25:56,380 --> 00:25:58,180
medicine.
Yeah, and they've taught

508
00:25:58,180 --> 00:26:01,060
themselves that over the.
So there's no exception of that.

509
00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:04,340
They're what we call highly
selective frugiovores, which

510
00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:07,380
means that they're they'll eat
one leaf off of this plant and

511
00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:10,690
two leaves off of that plant.
And the dietary nutrition of

512
00:26:10,690 --> 00:26:15,370
those plants you in that
specific time frame is a high

513
00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:17,370
draw out of them.
They only have so much food,

514
00:26:17,370 --> 00:26:20,370
room for food in their stomachs.
They're ruminants like cow,

515
00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:22,450
right?
They can only fit so much

516
00:26:22,450 --> 00:26:24,930
through there.
So they're extremely selective.

517
00:26:24,930 --> 00:26:26,890
They they pretty much eat the
best of everything.

518
00:26:26,890 --> 00:26:28,410
They're like little hobbits, so
to speak.

519
00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:31,170
They relish good food and the
creature comforts at home.

520
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:33,460
So do we.
Yeah.

521
00:26:33,580 --> 00:26:34,580
Yeah.
What's not the love?

522
00:26:35,780 --> 00:26:37,940
And so they really take it to
the the high degree.

523
00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:40,100
So I'm not surprised in the
least little bit that the

524
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:43,580
animals know this, how they know
it.

525
00:26:44,420 --> 00:26:46,140
You know that that's a tough
one.

526
00:26:46,140 --> 00:26:50,500
I don't think that we may never
know that, but for whatever

527
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:53,380
reason they do.
Yeah, Yeah.

528
00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:58,700
So you mentioned the like the
the combination of the.

529
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,760
The knowledge depth that we have
around mushrooms earlier, when

530
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,480
you think of that.
And then you mentioned kind of

531
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,360
what happened throughout the
course of history in like the

532
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,280
60s and 70s.
And the push back on the, you

533
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,160
know, psycho effects or the, you
know, the psychiatric effects

534
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,040
of, you know, all of the things
that push back on substance use

535
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,770
and stuff like that.
Did some of that lead to our

536
00:27:25,770 --> 00:27:27,970
lack of knowledge about
mushrooms?

537
00:27:27,970 --> 00:27:30,210
Probably.
And it goes much, much earlier

538
00:27:30,210 --> 00:27:34,010
in human history than that.
Let's go to Egyptian and Roman

539
00:27:34,010 --> 00:27:35,930
times.
You know, you as a common person

540
00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:38,210
could be put to death for eating
the King's mushrooms, so to

541
00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:39,050
speak.
You're not allowed.

542
00:27:39,050 --> 00:27:42,770
Is reserved for upper echelon of
society only, right?

543
00:27:43,850 --> 00:27:47,050
It's food of the gods.
It literally the Egyptian

544
00:27:47,050 --> 00:27:48,450
culture.
This is food of the gods.

545
00:27:48,450 --> 00:27:49,530
You're not allowed to touch
this.

546
00:27:49,530 --> 00:27:51,130
You're you're you're common
person.

547
00:27:51,130 --> 00:27:55,380
This is for high priestess and
you know, the the pharaoh and

548
00:27:55,380 --> 00:27:57,980
things of that nature and that
translates all the way through,

549
00:27:57,980 --> 00:28:00,060
you know, when we're talking
about Robin Hood and the King's

550
00:28:00,060 --> 00:28:03,420
forest and shooting a deer, you
know, that's there's a lot of

551
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:05,300
truth to that.
In that feudal system.

552
00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:08,420
You aren't allowed to forage for
food because that's the King's

553
00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:09,700
food.
You have to grow food for the

554
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:11,700
king to sell and you know blah
blah blah.

555
00:28:11,820 --> 00:28:14,340
And then you get your rations
back from them.

556
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:16,100
Exactly.
So control, right?

557
00:28:16,260 --> 00:28:19,060
As Americans, though, we have
this distinct legacy.

558
00:28:19,060 --> 00:28:22,540
We're the first people in the
world that the fish in the

559
00:28:22,540 --> 00:28:25,940
rivers belong to everyone.
The game on the land belongs to

560
00:28:25,940 --> 00:28:28,060
everyone.
The things that grow upon the

561
00:28:28,060 --> 00:28:31,380
land, especially in our public
spaces, belong to everyone.

562
00:28:31,740 --> 00:28:35,300
The food belongs to everyone.
Now, a large part of that's

563
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:38,780
because of our, you know, I'm,
I'm Indian, right?

564
00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:43,820
I'm my dad's a halfbreed, right?
I'm Potawatomi, a whole of my

565
00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:46,060
initial now they people, if
you're out there listening.

566
00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:51,870
So with that, this is always
been part of our food.

567
00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:56,670
Can you imagine, you know, on
top of everything else from the

568
00:28:56,670 --> 00:28:58,910
Europeans if they came over and
said, whoa, whoa, whoa, you

569
00:28:58,910 --> 00:29:01,950
can't eat those fish, those
mushrooms and those Deers get

570
00:29:01,950 --> 00:29:04,630
bitten, fella, you just lost all
your credibility, right.

571
00:29:06,270 --> 00:29:09,470
So as part of our American
psyche and with the the frontier

572
00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:13,340
and you know that expansionism
in our manifest destiny, being

573
00:29:13,340 --> 00:29:16,300
able to to harvest our own food
from the landscape is just

574
00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:17,940
ingrained on us.
And we're the first people that

575
00:29:17,940 --> 00:29:19,140
ever sparked that light in the
world.

576
00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:23,060
The rest of the world's national
parks and the freedom of their

577
00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:26,500
fishing and hunting, that all
comes from us, right, For

578
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:30,900
whatever it's worth.
So, but before that you know

579
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:34,180
that that those things that were
upon the landscape, those were

580
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,900
you know, for the the rulers of
society.

581
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:42,140
And so the microphobia is been
trained into us over generations

582
00:29:42,140 --> 00:29:45,300
and generations and generations.
That being said, there's still a

583
00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:47,300
lot of cultures that really love
mushrooms.

584
00:29:47,580 --> 00:29:51,260
The Bulgarian, almost all of the
Eastern European bloc, right,

585
00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:55,620
the Bulgarians, the Germans,
French.

586
00:29:56,340 --> 00:29:59,340
Then we get up in the Swedes and
the Norwegians, the Asian

587
00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:02,580
especially SE.
Asians really love mushrooms,

588
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,680
and it goes other parts of the
world as well.

589
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,800
There are lots of indigenous
cultures that truly love

590
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,080
mushrooms, but they mycophobia
that we have ingrained in us as

591
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,240
Americans.
It was probably a double hit

592
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,600
from psychedelics and the
pushback against it, as well as

593
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,320
some of that just bubbling
subconscious from, you know,

594
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,000
stay away from mushrooms,
they'll kill you.

595
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,600
And that's.
What I was going to ask if

596
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,560
there's an innate part of this,
like a human?

597
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,080
You know, aspects that we have
to get around or get over

598
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,360
because like you equate it to
something where being scared of

599
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,400
bees or spiders for example, or
something where it's.

600
00:30:43,170 --> 00:30:46,650
A lot of times not rational, but
at the same time, there's this

601
00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:50,010
innate thing in this that says
that could kill you for some

602
00:30:50,010 --> 00:30:52,090
reason that has to exist
somewhat.

603
00:30:52,330 --> 00:30:55,930
So it's almost like the person
who is that irrationally afraid

604
00:30:55,930 --> 00:30:59,490
of bees, you know, or spiders
will say that we had an

605
00:30:59,530 --> 00:31:02,290
arachnophobic as our
spokesperson for spiders.

606
00:31:02,490 --> 00:31:05,530
Well, yeah, we're all going to
be arachnophobic if the guy in

607
00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:07,930
charge is telling us don't be,
don't like spiders.

608
00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:11,050
I love spiders.
They do amazing things in my

609
00:31:11,050 --> 00:31:13,930
garden and in my grow room and
so on and so forth.

610
00:31:15,370 --> 00:31:17,450
You know, they're extremely
deadly plants.

611
00:31:17,450 --> 00:31:19,610
They're extremely deadly
berries.

612
00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:21,290
There's extremely deadly
animals.

613
00:31:21,290 --> 00:31:22,770
There's extremely deadly
everything.

614
00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:25,490
Mushrooms is no exception.
Driving down the road can be an

615
00:31:25,490 --> 00:31:28,770
extremely deadly thing, right?
Walking in your bathroom is the

616
00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:32,090
most dangerous thing we do.
Wet floor in the bathroom and

617
00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:34,850
most likely spot to die, you
know, other than your car.

618
00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:39,190
So yes, it's the, you know, I
mean, there's there's cause for

619
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:40,710
alarm.
You should definitely know the

620
00:31:40,750 --> 00:31:42,750
enemy, so to speak.
And there'll be two or three

621
00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:45,510
really deadly mushrooms across
most of the US.

622
00:31:45,870 --> 00:31:48,190
There might be a handful of
small outliers.

623
00:31:48,430 --> 00:31:51,190
And if you avoid a family we
call LBM's or little brown

624
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:54,430
mushrooms, right.
You just wiped out almost all of

625
00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:58,070
them but one just by doing that.
And so whenever I lead my

626
00:31:58,070 --> 00:32:00,430
forays, and I'm not teaching
people about mushrooms, I kind

627
00:32:00,430 --> 00:32:04,220
of communicate that LBM theory,
you know, of Bella, That's the

628
00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:05,300
genus.
Lever, right?

629
00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:06,780
Lever right there.
Right.

630
00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:10,300
That's a little brown mushroom.
We don't ask about those.

631
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:14,020
We just keep removing.
And so that takes most of them

632
00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:15,500
off the table.
And then there's one that's

633
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:18,620
white and it's all white, has a
white bulb, has a white stem,

634
00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:22,140
has a white omnulus, a ring,
white gills, white top, the

635
00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:24,540
whole thing, right?
Top to bottom, it's white as all

636
00:32:24,540 --> 00:32:28,160
can be, just a cracker of the
woods, so to speak, right?

637
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,800
And it's extremely deadly.
It's called there's a it's a

638
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,800
member of a group of mushrooms
called the Destroying Angel

639
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,840
complex.
So people call them the Deadly

640
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,120
angels or whatever.
Maybe there's a bunch of

641
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,400
different misnomer names, but
and that one be fairly common to

642
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,320
see it.
You know, I see it lawns around

643
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,040
trees a lot.
It's a European invasive species

644
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,840
as far as I understand it, and
it is deadly.

645
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,480
It gave, you know, one mushroom
could be enough to kill a lot of

646
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,520
people and it's also extremely
easy to identify and stay away

647
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,160
from.
So knowing your enemy is always

648
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,280
the best.
Isn't there one?

649
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,000
Isn't there one that has like a
bright red cap that's deadly?

650
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,840
That's kind of famous okay.
So it's not deadly.

651
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,440
It's everything, all right.
The difference between toxicity

652
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,120
and medicine can be dosage or
application.

653
00:33:17,770 --> 00:33:20,370
OK, so it's the Amanina
mascaria, right?

654
00:33:20,410 --> 00:33:22,730
It's the quintessential red
mushroom with the white dots on

655
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:24,170
it.
Alice in Wonderland.

656
00:33:24,810 --> 00:33:27,850
If you saw Smurfs House, it
would be that you know that the

657
00:33:27,850 --> 00:33:34,730
whole thing, it is not deadly,
but it can be because it's the

658
00:33:34,730 --> 00:33:36,810
origin of Christmas ornaments
too.

659
00:33:36,810 --> 00:33:38,370
Do you know that story?
Cool.

660
00:33:38,570 --> 00:33:42,010
So you know about Saturnalia,
the Vikings Festival of light?

661
00:33:42,370 --> 00:33:46,780
OK, just know of it.
So they would take these ominina

662
00:33:46,780 --> 00:33:49,780
mushrooms, Negro with spruce
trees primarily.

663
00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:51,540
And they would take them and
they would put them up in the

664
00:33:51,540 --> 00:33:53,540
bowels of those spruce trees to
dry.

665
00:33:53,540 --> 00:33:55,620
Or the squirrels, would
squirrels like to grab mushrooms

666
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:57,260
and put them up to dry like this
too.

667
00:33:57,980 --> 00:34:01,020
And during the winter they would
grab those and they would make a

668
00:34:01,020 --> 00:34:04,420
big communal tea out of them and
all the small children and the

669
00:34:04,420 --> 00:34:06,020
old folks.
So they would go to this other

670
00:34:06,020 --> 00:34:09,010
part of the village with like a
fence around it and then

671
00:34:09,010 --> 00:34:12,050
everybody else that was left
would imbibe, you know, in this

672
00:34:12,050 --> 00:34:14,010
livation.
And one of this livation wasn't

673
00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:17,610
a happy go lucky mushroom trip.
It's, it's Viking berserker

674
00:34:17,610 --> 00:34:18,929
session.
Literally.

675
00:34:19,210 --> 00:34:20,889
That's where the Viking
berserkers came from.

676
00:34:20,889 --> 00:34:23,810
They would drink this magic
mushroom, only it would make

677
00:34:23,810 --> 00:34:26,610
them behave like they are
methamphetamines.

678
00:34:27,650 --> 00:34:29,889
Very.
Let's see.

679
00:34:30,010 --> 00:34:33,060
They would basically have huge
orgies and street fights, right?

680
00:34:33,060 --> 00:34:35,540
So next time your family's
fighting at Christmas, know that

681
00:34:35,540 --> 00:34:37,580
you're celebrating the biking
origin.

682
00:34:39,340 --> 00:34:43,420
So that mushroom, if you take it
and you, you know you ran it

683
00:34:43,420 --> 00:34:46,659
through boiling water and
changed out the water, now it's

684
00:34:46,659 --> 00:34:49,940
edible, right?
Of course, if you kept that, you

685
00:34:49,980 --> 00:34:52,260
feed it to the reindeer and then
you know, after the reindeer

686
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:55,219
filter it out, there's, you
know, that wives tale about them

687
00:34:55,219 --> 00:34:55,900
drinking it.
I've.

688
00:34:56,179 --> 00:34:58,340
Heard that one right?
So they they've more or less

689
00:34:58,340 --> 00:35:01,520
just made tea out of it, whether
it went through the animal or

690
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,440
whatever it may be, and they
enjoyed that.

691
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,200
So that's that's what we're
alluding to, is that Amanina

692
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,520
muscaria in this circumstance,
not deadly, it's it's toxic, but

693
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,560
the toxicity is psychoactive.
You know Silosipin, the magic

694
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,800
mushroom family is toxic as well
in that regard, but it doesn't

695
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,820
stop anyone, does it?
Right.

696
00:35:25,100 --> 00:35:26,900
Yeah.
And I must be mistaken cuz I

697
00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:31,780
thought there was one that was
like toxic is deadly not on them

698
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:33,780
and either.
I mean there are some Amanitas

699
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:36,820
that are, but not that red and
white that I'm aware of.

700
00:35:36,860 --> 00:35:39,220
I could be wrong.
I get an e-mail from somebody

701
00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:41,780
saying you're an idiot.
Wouldn't be the first time?

702
00:35:41,980 --> 00:35:44,500
So little brown, little brown
mushroom.

703
00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:46,970
Stay away from That's weird
because when you think of a

704
00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:49,650
mushroom that we eat, you know,
the little brown mushrooms,

705
00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:50,570
Yeah.
And they're, I mean, we're

706
00:35:50,570 --> 00:35:53,050
talking to Minion of, you know,
a couple inches tall at the

707
00:35:53,050 --> 00:35:56,970
most, usually a spindly stem and
the hundreds of them on one tree

708
00:35:56,970 --> 00:35:59,010
kind of thing.
Yeah, those ones.

709
00:35:59,010 --> 00:36:01,170
I think most.
That's like the first thing you

710
00:36:01,170 --> 00:36:02,730
learn as a Mushroom Forager,
right?

711
00:36:02,730 --> 00:36:05,970
The the ones with the the long
stems that look like they could

712
00:36:05,970 --> 00:36:09,610
tip over at anytime and
generally a pretty small cap

713
00:36:09,610 --> 00:36:10,570
too, right?
Those are the.

714
00:36:10,570 --> 00:36:13,930
So most people that die from
mushroom poisoning are looking

715
00:36:13,930 --> 00:36:17,240
for drugs, right.
So they they made a bad

716
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:21,080
identification and usually a
little brown mushroom involved

717
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,760
and that's what happened.
So it would be the gallerina, in

718
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,160
particular the funeral bell
mushroom that we're trying to

719
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,080
avoid.
And if you're not a trained eye,

720
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,440
you could easily confuse that
for annoki or slow spin,

721
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,720
especially the wood loving slow
spins.

722
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,400
Or if it's growing on a buried
root and it looks like that

723
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,600
mushrooms growing from the
ground when in fact it's growing

724
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,800
from the buried root, you know
there, there could be some error

725
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:43,860
there.
Yeah.

726
00:36:44,580 --> 00:36:46,940
And I think I think part of your
businesses and a question I

727
00:36:46,940 --> 00:36:50,540
asked, I was going to ask you
for just for people that have

728
00:36:50,540 --> 00:36:55,420
never like foraged or anything,
but I know people like grow

729
00:36:55,420 --> 00:36:58,060
mushrooms now.
And I think that's part of your

730
00:36:58,060 --> 00:37:02,100
business.
How I I knew a buddy of mine

731
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:04,060
used to do it a little bit.
So I know about the you get a

732
00:37:04,060 --> 00:37:06,060
log and put it in the plugs and
stuff like that.

733
00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:07,980
But what's the?
How do you do that at home?

734
00:37:08,020 --> 00:37:11,560
You know, hearing the?
Hearing that kind of vein thing

735
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,840
that you were talking about
earlier makes it seem like it

736
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,520
it'd be hard to cultivate, but
this must be a different way to

737
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,000
go about that.
So the mushrooms we generally

738
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,560
cultivate are going to be wood
loving species.

739
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,440
There are the exceptions, which
are the agaricus we find in the

740
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,840
grocery store that are, you
know, the white buttons in the

741
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,920
Portobello cremini.
That's all the they're basically

742
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,120
all the same mushroom.
White Buttons has a genetic

743
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,170
freak thing going on where it
doesn't produce melanin and then

744
00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:42,130
the Portobello Carini are all
the same mushroom.

745
00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:45,890
It's just the baby bellas are
smaller and the portobellos are

746
00:37:45,890 --> 00:37:48,770
larger as you get it right.
So it's just a great thing.

747
00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:51,930
When it comes to those names,
those grow on maneuver.

748
00:37:51,930 --> 00:37:55,970
They they grow on waste and
refuse particularly.

749
00:37:56,530 --> 00:37:59,610
So we generally call it body and
nutrition mushrooms, which means

750
00:37:59,610 --> 00:38:04,450
that the the maneuver has, you
know, grass in it and that is

751
00:38:05,050 --> 00:38:07,250
partially or completely digested
by the room in it.

752
00:38:07,650 --> 00:38:10,890
And there's some body or
structure there for the mushroom

753
00:38:10,890 --> 00:38:14,450
to grow on and that cellulose
and lignin that's been digested

754
00:38:14,890 --> 00:38:17,690
and then the nutrition aspect,
which would be all the nitrogen

755
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:19,770
and other trace elements that
are present in the manure.

756
00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:24,890
So that's expensive to do and
that's usually subsidized.

757
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:27,530
The subsidized crop is where the
government pays them to sell at

758
00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:29,770
a certain point and gives them a
check to make up the difference,

759
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:31,910
right.
So you never go out of business.

760
00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:34,230
You've always got somebody there
to rescue you.

761
00:38:34,430 --> 00:38:37,310
Just great for that farm.
Most of those farms are

762
00:38:37,310 --> 00:38:39,870
corporate, right.
And so they're the they're the

763
00:38:39,870 --> 00:38:42,910
welfare kings are so to speak
right.

764
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:45,870
And I always get mad when people
get mad about humans being on

765
00:38:45,870 --> 00:38:47,510
welfare.
Brother get business off of

766
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:50,750
welfare, especially nag.
But the market set themselves.

767
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:54,270
But so those are almost all
produced by one county in

768
00:38:54,270 --> 00:38:58,020
Pennsylvania.
Or one of the increasing trends

769
00:38:58,020 --> 00:38:59,980
is to fill up a shipping
container in China.

770
00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:03,700
And then as it's coming across
the ocean, they can adjust the

771
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:06,540
temperature in there and the
climate in there and fruit,

772
00:39:06,540 --> 00:39:08,660
those mushrooms in there.
And then when it gets to the US

773
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:11,620
shores, they can pick it all.
And that's USDA organic now.

774
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:13,580
Right?
Especially real Docky.

775
00:39:13,580 --> 00:39:14,500
This is.
Oh yeah.

776
00:39:14,780 --> 00:39:16,860
Then they empty the ship
container and send something

777
00:39:16,860 --> 00:39:18,380
else back.
It's a big racket for them.

778
00:39:18,820 --> 00:39:21,940
Right.
So USDA Organic awesome stuff is

779
00:39:21,940 --> 00:39:24,420
also why I recommend you eat
local mushrooms, because you

780
00:39:24,420 --> 00:39:26,020
know where they were grown and
who grew them.

781
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:30,830
We grow on wood loving species,
so whether it's sawdust and

782
00:39:30,830 --> 00:39:35,510
straw or on logs themselves or
even sawdusted with, you know,

783
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:40,030
some supplemented materials like
the soybean holes or beet pulp,

784
00:39:40,030 --> 00:39:43,510
shred or alfalfa or whatever,
maybe inside of a bag.

785
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:47,110
That's called bag culture or
synthetic logs.

786
00:39:48,190 --> 00:39:50,830
So I try to grow everything
outdoors that I possibly can

787
00:39:50,830 --> 00:39:52,550
like our shiitaki second to
none.

788
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:55,370
It's world class.
When it's grown outdoors, those

789
00:39:55,370 --> 00:39:58,130
are worth $20 plus a pound, $30
plus a pound.

790
00:39:58,450 --> 00:40:01,490
But when you grow them in the
bags and shipping container,

791
00:40:01,490 --> 00:40:04,090
that's a totally different
product and that's a bunch of

792
00:40:04,090 --> 00:40:06,130
crap.
In comparison, it's worth about

793
00:40:06,130 --> 00:40:09,210
$7.00 a pound.
So they both say shiitake, but

794
00:40:09,210 --> 00:40:11,330
which one's the good stuff,
right?

795
00:40:11,730 --> 00:40:14,170
Okay.
And then medicinally the stuff

796
00:40:14,170 --> 00:40:17,010
that's grown indoors.
So say you're buying lines made

797
00:40:17,010 --> 00:40:20,210
from somebody online for
neuropathy or whatever it may

798
00:40:20,210 --> 00:40:22,550
be.
Well, it was grown in a clinical

799
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:26,390
setting in a laboratory that
blinds may never had a struggle.

800
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:29,630
It didn't meet any bacteria and
viruses and it's life to code

801
00:40:29,630 --> 00:40:32,390
against, so it's not medicinally
charged.

802
00:40:32,590 --> 00:40:35,710
However, whenever a mushroom
grows outside in the real world

803
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:40,470
in contact with the environment
now has to fight off bacteria

804
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:42,350
and viruses at every step of the
way.

805
00:40:42,350 --> 00:40:45,550
So it's medicinally charged.
It has those materials in it

806
00:40:45,830 --> 00:40:47,630
that are coded against for that
fight.

807
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:50,570
And just like we spoke to
earlier, our immune systems are

808
00:40:50,570 --> 00:40:52,370
identical.
So those compounds that help

809
00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:56,810
them work for us.
So I try to grow outside as much

810
00:40:56,810 --> 00:40:58,770
as possible.
There's some things that I just

811
00:40:58,770 --> 00:41:01,250
can't do outside, like grow
oysters very well.

812
00:41:01,250 --> 00:41:03,450
I mean, I can grow them, but
they'll be full of bugs.

813
00:41:03,450 --> 00:41:05,130
My patrons really don't like
that.

814
00:41:05,570 --> 00:41:09,610
And so you have to do those
either indoors or in a protected

815
00:41:09,610 --> 00:41:11,850
setting, which good luck
protecting them outdoors.

816
00:41:11,850 --> 00:41:17,560
So you got to do them indoors.
So Long story short, they grow a

817
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,600
lot of different mushrooms, 20
plus different kinds.

818
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,360
And I've been experimenting with
years and years of you know what

819
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,600
what if I tried this with this
mushroom and I capture

820
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,920
mushrooms, which means I'd go
find one.

821
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,480
And I say, well, if this
mushroom grows saptropically,

822
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,880
which means it'll grow on dead
and dying, you know wood.

823
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:36,640
Well, what if I take a sample of
it and I bring it back to my lab

824
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,240
and I grow it on a Petri dish
and I expand it out and grow it

825
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,600
on grains and then on wood and
see if I can cultivate this.

826
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,960
And sure as could be, you know,
you kind of work within

827
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,160
parameters and now you got to
remember it's a wild animal.

828
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,680
So it's like building a zoo
enclosure and introducing a wild

829
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,200
animal.
You want it to replicate and do

830
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,040
well, but there's no guarantees
and and it could be years before

831
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,520
you find out your experiment
worked or not too.

832
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:04,560
So when it's it's a really
unique and interesting different

833
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,040
world than most other
agricultural endeavors.

834
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,440
Yeah.
So when you take a sample like

835
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,680
that and then you grow it from a
Petri dish.

836
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,240
Is that just like cutting a
piece of that vein out and

837
00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:17,120
bringing it home?
Yeah, it's more or less cloning.

838
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,760
It's exactly what it is.
Mushroom farmers are just

839
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,560
glorified cloners, sure.
And janitors.

840
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:28,160
We do a lot of cleaning.
Yeah, I suppose so.

841
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,360
Yeah.
Talking about your shitakes, I

842
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,320
was going to ask that what, how
did you get to Shitake Creek

843
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,160
being the name of your business?
So Shitake Creek.

844
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,940
I mean Shitake Creek, man.
I I've been an adventure sports

845
00:42:40,940 --> 00:42:43,620
guide for a long time.
You know I've a class four and

846
00:42:43,620 --> 00:42:45,780
five whitewater guide for a lot
of years.

847
00:42:46,860 --> 00:42:48,980
The running jokes that I've
always been up shit Creek,

848
00:42:48,980 --> 00:42:50,260
brother.
I'm great with the paddle.

849
00:42:50,260 --> 00:42:53,300
Bring it on, you know.
And so I don't know I just

850
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:56,580
started kicking around names and
I I really like that name and

851
00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:59,100
and it kind of fits me as a
human.

852
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:02,740
You know I've got a weird sense
of humor and all right.

853
00:43:02,740 --> 00:43:05,380
Let's do this.
So Shiitake Creek it was and is

854
00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:07,900
it's.
I'm kind of transitioning it for

855
00:43:08,350 --> 00:43:11,870
hopefully for my kids to run and
just the local farmers market.

856
00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:14,550
Nothing crazy.
I'll still teach some classes

857
00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:18,310
and the mushroom and deer thing
at my other business is really

858
00:43:18,310 --> 00:43:22,150
starting to explode.
So I don't mind taking a step

859
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:24,270
back.
I've been fruiting and doing all

860
00:43:24,270 --> 00:43:25,990
this hard work.
I mean, they're basically you're

861
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:29,470
a logger and a janitor, and
those are some tough gigs,

862
00:43:29,470 --> 00:43:33,110
brother and of course farmer on
top of it all, you know?

863
00:43:33,710 --> 00:43:37,350
So after doing all this for a
long time, I'd sure like to give

864
00:43:37,350 --> 00:43:40,870
my back a rest and use my brain
for the rest of my life wherever

865
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:43,950
possible and let my son and my
daughter learn how to earn a

866
00:43:43,950 --> 00:43:46,390
dollar.
Yeah, I was just going to say

867
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:49,430
that you get to a point
eventually doing most things

868
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:54,230
where your knowledge is worth
more than your output sometimes.

869
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,360
And finding a way to finding a
way to disseminate that

870
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,520
knowledge is always interesting.
It's a journey.

871
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,440
But yeah, absolutely.
When you have, you know, a

872
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:09,160
lifetime of that style of thing,
whatever that thing is and it's

873
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,640
ready to come out, the knowledge
becomes worth more than the

874
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,160
product because then you can
teach others to make the product

875
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,900
and it's exponential.
Yeah, my wife is always saying

876
00:44:16,900 --> 00:44:20,060
something to the effect of like,
I just can't believe, you know,

877
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:23,820
I can't believe your skill set
or I every time I think I really

878
00:44:23,820 --> 00:44:24,980
know you.
And we've been married over a

879
00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:27,070
decade now.
And you know, I find out that

880
00:44:27,070 --> 00:44:29,750
you, you know, you're you're
good at this thing that I didn't

881
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:31,710
even know about.
And like, yeah, I got a lot of

882
00:44:31,710 --> 00:44:33,150
useless skills, you know?
But.

883
00:44:34,030 --> 00:44:37,550
But a lot of useful ones, too.
You're not an outdoorsman,

884
00:44:37,550 --> 00:44:39,110
Woodsman.
I don't know how good they are

885
00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:40,830
for society, You know what I
mean?

886
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:43,150
So it's lucky for me I live in
the middle of nowhere.

887
00:44:43,350 --> 00:44:45,470
It's all relative, man.
It's all relative.

888
00:44:45,470 --> 00:44:48,510
Useful means a lot of different
things to a lot of different

889
00:44:48,510 --> 00:44:51,310
people.
There's people that, you know,

890
00:44:51,310 --> 00:44:53,550
buy your mushrooms that would
call that useful.

891
00:44:54,350 --> 00:44:56,660
Very much so.
And I'm blessed to have them as

892
00:44:56,660 --> 00:44:59,340
a customer base.
We have some of the best

893
00:44:59,340 --> 00:45:01,180
customers that I ever dreamed
of.

894
00:45:01,460 --> 00:45:03,660
I've always said we cultivate
relationships and we grow

895
00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:07,780
mushrooms, and I believe that
that's 100% true and the people

896
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:10,940
of Green Bay and Marquette and
the entire UP.

897
00:45:10,940 --> 00:45:13,500
But Iron Mountain, where we live
in particular, been just

898
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:17,100
extremely kind to us over the
years and I can never say thank

899
00:45:17,100 --> 00:45:21,340
you enough to them.
It's a I mean it's part of why a

900
00:45:21,340 --> 00:45:23,700
lot why we buy these days.
You know when you can connect

901
00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:25,860
with the person behind it and
it's easy to you know when

902
00:45:25,860 --> 00:45:28,180
someone's passionate about
something, you can tell and it's

903
00:45:28,540 --> 00:45:31,700
that transfers that it helps
with the transfer of that energy

904
00:45:31,700 --> 00:45:33,380
and knowledge like you're
talking about.

905
00:45:33,820 --> 00:45:34,940
That's another thing you do
right?

906
00:45:35,340 --> 00:45:38,900
Like don't you do guided forages
where you like give kind of the

907
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:40,940
101 of searching what does that
intake?

908
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:42,780
I'm a little different than a
lot of people.

909
00:45:42,860 --> 00:45:46,010
I don't pick on the forage.
You do, right.

910
00:45:46,050 --> 00:45:48,210
I'm not going to take a single.
I might take a I mean, if we

911
00:45:48,210 --> 00:45:50,090
find out a lot of mushrooms, I'm
going to take a couple of home

912
00:45:50,090 --> 00:45:52,490
for dinner, maybe.
But generally speaking, you're

913
00:45:52,490 --> 00:45:56,130
taking them all, so you almost
always end up with more

914
00:45:56,130 --> 00:45:59,490
mushrooms, you know, value than
the class was itself.

915
00:45:59,490 --> 00:46:02,450
I can never guarantee it because
it's all climactic conditions,

916
00:46:03,570 --> 00:46:06,290
but I've only had one foray to
date where they didn't walk away

917
00:46:06,290 --> 00:46:08,810
with more mushrooms than they
paid that were worth more than

918
00:46:08,810 --> 00:46:13,580
what they paid for the class.
Usually it's like a lot more, so

919
00:46:13,580 --> 00:46:16,540
it's not just on the class.
So you get me as a resource, you

920
00:46:16,540 --> 00:46:17,780
know, you have my, my phone
number.

921
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:22,140
You can send me pictures.
And what is this, you know?

922
00:46:22,140 --> 00:46:24,700
Do you know what this is?
How do I find more of whatever

923
00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:26,860
the question may be?
You know, that's that's part of

924
00:46:26,860 --> 00:46:28,940
it too.
Once again, we cultivate

925
00:46:28,940 --> 00:46:32,300
relationships, right?
So I love taking the classes

926
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:35,500
out.
I broke my foot a few weeks ago

927
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:38,500
and so I'm about four weeks into
the healing process.

928
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:43,730
So it's been a a labor of love
this year but I'm I'm getting

929
00:46:43,730 --> 00:46:47,610
around pretty good and I found
out that you know most folks are

930
00:46:47,610 --> 00:46:50,930
fine with me going slower in the
process which is great because I

931
00:46:50,930 --> 00:46:52,570
was thought I was going too
fast.

932
00:46:52,570 --> 00:46:55,530
So but yeah it's it's a
wonderful thing.

933
00:46:55,530 --> 00:46:59,010
I love taking people out and
Jesus said take a man, you know

934
00:46:59,010 --> 00:47:01,890
teach a man to fish and you feed
him for his whole life.

935
00:47:01,970 --> 00:47:05,570
Well, that's my whole goal is
you'd be able to walk out this

936
00:47:05,570 --> 00:47:08,850
time of the year forever after
this, and you'll be able to find

937
00:47:08,850 --> 00:47:11,130
yourself a meal for yourself and
your family.

938
00:47:11,650 --> 00:47:14,890
And we just got to start with
that where, you know, we'll say

939
00:47:15,090 --> 00:47:17,690
every few weeks or a month or
whatever, you learn one new

940
00:47:17,690 --> 00:47:20,570
mushroom.
And then you do that for years

941
00:47:20,570 --> 00:47:22,330
and all of a sudden you're a
mushroom expert too.

942
00:47:22,730 --> 00:47:24,490
That's all it takes.
Is just you got to start

943
00:47:24,490 --> 00:47:26,410
somewhere and give you a base
point.

944
00:47:26,850 --> 00:47:29,570
Yeah, yeah.
And you talked earlier about

945
00:47:29,890 --> 00:47:31,770
guiding in your younger years.
What?

946
00:47:31,770 --> 00:47:34,050
What What type of guiding?
Like, oh man, I have

947
00:47:34,090 --> 00:47:37,730
conservation Corps and I worked
with Texas Forest Service as a

948
00:47:37,730 --> 00:47:42,060
wild and firefighter and mostly
whitewater guide.

949
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:44,500
I did a lot of whitewater
rafting.

950
00:47:44,500 --> 00:47:49,540
I mean a lot.
Yeah, heck brother, rock climbs,

951
00:47:49,540 --> 00:47:51,980
mountaineering, search, a lot of
search and rescue too.

952
00:47:53,420 --> 00:47:55,060
Just all over.
Yeah.

953
00:47:55,660 --> 00:47:59,020
So that, I mean, that part of
maybe that's why you're going so

954
00:47:59,020 --> 00:48:00,140
fast, because you're
comfortable.

955
00:48:00,460 --> 00:48:02,980
Yeah, in the woods.
But I I mean, a lot of that

956
00:48:02,980 --> 00:48:06,980
probably seeps out too.
It's not just the mushroom hunt,

957
00:48:06,980 --> 00:48:11,190
probably, yeah, with that, a lot
of those useless woodsman

958
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:13,430
skills, so to speak.
Like I cleaned up Hurricane

959
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:15,110
Katrina with some friends of
mine.

960
00:48:15,110 --> 00:48:17,790
We're there pretty shortly after
the storm.

961
00:48:17,790 --> 00:48:20,750
Well, the body gnats are
ferocious, no seams down there.

962
00:48:21,350 --> 00:48:25,070
So I did a video yesterday, and
they're gnats all around my

963
00:48:25,070 --> 00:48:26,830
face.
And I ended up just like this

964
00:48:26,830 --> 00:48:28,430
with my hat over my head during
the video.

965
00:48:28,430 --> 00:48:29,630
And I didn't really think about
it.

966
00:48:29,950 --> 00:48:32,230
And I realized during that live
video what I was doing.

967
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:34,870
I had to stop and explain.
If you hold your hat above your

968
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:39,050
head, them gnats go to your hat
instead of your face, right?

969
00:48:39,330 --> 00:48:42,010
And that's just one of those
things that you never learn off.

970
00:48:42,010 --> 00:48:44,770
Doesn't work on those no seams.
The only thing it does is Avon

971
00:48:44,770 --> 00:48:48,250
skin so soft, right?
And if you put skin so soft on

972
00:48:48,250 --> 00:48:50,970
in the sun, you're going to turn
crispy brown real fast.

973
00:48:50,970 --> 00:48:54,090
So the only trick that works is
when you stop, you put your hat

974
00:48:54,090 --> 00:48:56,250
above your head and they go to
it.

975
00:48:56,250 --> 00:48:58,410
And so there's just a million
little things like that.

976
00:48:58,410 --> 00:49:02,190
And you know, if you get stung
by a bee and look around and

977
00:49:02,190 --> 00:49:05,390
tell you which plant to put on
it, you know, or if someone has

978
00:49:05,390 --> 00:49:08,510
tobacco, we get that tobacco wet
and stick it on there and pull

979
00:49:08,510 --> 00:49:12,230
the poison out and numb the pain
and you know the whole thing

980
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:14,790
real quick.
And I don't know, I wanted 1000,

981
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:16,550
little things like that along
the ways, you know.

982
00:49:16,750 --> 00:49:19,630
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, another thing I wanted

983
00:49:19,630 --> 00:49:21,910
to talk about today.
We started to touch on it

984
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:24,910
earlier, but it's awesome to see
some of the Netflix shows you

985
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:26,790
were talking about kind of
started speaking to this.

986
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,360
But just research and public
research in general around the

987
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:37,400
benefits of the psychoactive
benefits of you know psilocybin

988
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:43,320
and the the mushroom, what it
can do for our brain health and

989
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,560
it becoming not so much of A
faux pas to research and share

990
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,920
that research now with PTSD and
and stuff like that.

991
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:52,760
Have you delved into any of that
stuff?

992
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,880
I know a lot about the subject
to psychedelics.

993
00:49:56,030 --> 00:49:57,470
I haven't.
I've indulged.

994
00:49:58,390 --> 00:50:02,390
I was young once and stupid and
I had a lot of fun in a lot of

995
00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:06,030
places, and it was one of the
most spiritual experiences in my

996
00:50:06,030 --> 00:50:07,110
life.
I'm going to throw that out

997
00:50:07,110 --> 00:50:09,150
there right off the gate before
we go any further.

998
00:50:10,550 --> 00:50:12,910
I love the legitimate science on
this.

999
00:50:12,910 --> 00:50:15,670
Johns Hopkins University has
done an amazing job.

1000
00:50:15,950 --> 00:50:18,390
Michael Polian's book a few
years ago, How to Change Your

1001
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:21,950
Mind, is a really great.
That's the one that got turned

1002
00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:24,310
into a Netflix series?
Yeah, you've got it.

1003
00:50:25,850 --> 00:50:29,490
There are a lot of applications
for PTSD, for end of life

1004
00:50:29,490 --> 00:50:33,130
treatment, for neurological
disorders, Parkinson's, things

1005
00:50:33,130 --> 00:50:34,650
like that.
Because it's an electrical

1006
00:50:34,650 --> 00:50:37,890
firestorm or thunderstorm, it
basically ramps your

1007
00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:41,930
neurological circuit up and
opens new pathways or repairs

1008
00:50:41,930 --> 00:50:44,050
old ones.
So there are instances of people

1009
00:50:44,050 --> 00:50:47,890
being able to hear again, right,
People with limited vision,

1010
00:50:48,010 --> 00:50:50,650
getting clearer vision, things
of that nature.

1011
00:50:50,650 --> 00:50:54,740
But it's really, really been
good for the psychological

1012
00:50:54,780 --> 00:50:58,260
effect of it all, right?
Coming to peace with your

1013
00:50:59,140 --> 00:51:03,060
mortality in particular.
It's shown a lot of promise for

1014
00:51:03,060 --> 00:51:06,420
that end of life treatment,
especially with people who are

1015
00:51:06,420 --> 00:51:10,380
terminal, right?
So I love the science aspect of

1016
00:51:10,380 --> 00:51:12,820
it, and there are more and more
universities doing legitimate

1017
00:51:12,820 --> 00:51:17,650
science of it, and the
recreational value of it is

1018
00:51:17,650 --> 00:51:20,050
there, but it kind of denigrates
all the other work.

1019
00:51:20,050 --> 00:51:22,490
So I try to stay away from the
recreational, you know?

1020
00:51:22,650 --> 00:51:24,490
Plus, I'm the most obvious
source of that.

1021
00:51:24,490 --> 00:51:27,370
So I don't want to be.
The last thing I want is a bunch

1022
00:51:27,370 --> 00:51:29,770
of dudes kicking in my door with
the machine gun pointing into my

1023
00:51:29,770 --> 00:51:32,810
family, you know, because.
So I don't mess with it.

1024
00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:36,490
But with decriminalization on
the horizon, there are a lot of

1025
00:51:36,490 --> 00:51:38,890
municipalities in the state of
Michigan where I live who have

1026
00:51:38,890 --> 00:51:42,550
decriminalized and me being the
mushroom guy for 10 years in the

1027
00:51:42,550 --> 00:51:45,630
town that has much weed
dispensaries in it, I would like

1028
00:51:45,630 --> 00:51:48,390
to be poised to take advantage
of that from a business

1029
00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:52,310
standpoint when the day comes.
But other than that, I don't

1030
00:51:52,310 --> 00:51:57,070
mess with it at all right now.
It's just not on my list and we

1031
00:51:57,070 --> 00:51:59,630
don't really get solosmin that
grows wild here.

1032
00:52:00,230 --> 00:52:02,710
So it has to be cultivated.
You know you're not going to

1033
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:04,910
walk around and pick them in the
cow Paddy, at least up north.

1034
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:07,110
You know, you get a little
further South maybe.

1035
00:52:08,890 --> 00:52:11,250
Yeah, I I I started delving into
that.

1036
00:52:11,250 --> 00:52:14,730
I can't remember her name, but
Rogan had a fantastic guest on.

1037
00:52:15,330 --> 00:52:18,170
She had been a lifetime
researcher of the, you know,

1038
00:52:18,610 --> 00:52:21,610
useful effects of psychoactive
effects of mushrooms.

1039
00:52:22,130 --> 00:52:25,290
Unbelievable to hear talk about
the things that they were able

1040
00:52:25,290 --> 00:52:31,290
to like, prove, so to say.
But it was in like the 70s when

1041
00:52:31,290 --> 00:52:33,330
they couldn't know, one would
listen when they would stifle

1042
00:52:33,410 --> 00:52:34,330
everything.
Yeah, yeah.

1043
00:52:34,610 --> 00:52:38,060
If you said anything, you know,
there was such a a a violent

1044
00:52:38,060 --> 00:52:42,260
suppression of anyone who had
any counterculture whatsoever,

1045
00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:44,700
including expansion of your mind
and freethinking.

1046
00:52:45,180 --> 00:52:47,100
Are you kidding me?
When we came out of the 50s, all

1047
00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:50,260
our parents were beaten for
talking during dinner time or

1048
00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:52,380
whatever.
There was no individuality

1049
00:52:52,380 --> 00:52:53,820
present there.
It was conformity.

1050
00:52:54,980 --> 00:52:58,380
So it's a shame that our society
went through all this, but at

1051
00:52:58,380 --> 00:53:00,540
the same time, if it hadn't
happened, we wouldn't be where

1052
00:53:00,540 --> 00:53:01,980
we were.
So we go take the good with the

1053
00:53:01,980 --> 00:53:03,980
bad.
I'm very excited about the

1054
00:53:03,980 --> 00:53:08,470
future, all of this and I hope
that as human beings we can get

1055
00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:10,750
the medicine to the people who
need it because that's one of

1056
00:53:10,750 --> 00:53:14,030
the life's worst travesties is
someone can't afford their

1057
00:53:14,030 --> 00:53:16,990
medication or their medications
not available because of

1058
00:53:16,990 --> 00:53:20,910
societal norms or but then to
the ultra rich they can go out

1059
00:53:20,910 --> 00:53:23,070
of the country and grab it.
I don't think that that's kind

1060
00:53:23,070 --> 00:53:26,550
of a that's not what this
country is about.

1061
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:28,270
There's not supposed to be in
there.

1062
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:32,230
Yeah, I think so.
I recent experience tells me

1063
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:34,990
we're close to a place, at least
with this topic.

1064
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,160
I took a trip over the summer
and one of my connection flights

1065
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,760
I spent an hour talking to the
student from southern Texas.

1066
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,560
He was a political lobbyist,
someone that you would never

1067
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:47,840
think.
I didn't think the end of the

1068
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:52,240
conversation was going to end
with with a discussion about the

1069
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:53,880
psychoactive benefits of
mushrooms.

1070
00:53:55,310 --> 00:53:57,550
But it ended up exactly there he
was.

1071
00:53:57,910 --> 00:54:00,350
He told me he started working
with a nonprofit about this.

1072
00:54:00,350 --> 00:54:03,270
And it's the, you know, we don't
get too political, but it was a

1073
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:06,870
person that you never thought
would talk about and be open to

1074
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:10,310
this type of, you know, research
and use.

1075
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:14,310
And that just kind of flipped
the script on my mind a little

1076
00:54:14,310 --> 00:54:17,590
bit saying, you know, we're
probably to a place where this

1077
00:54:17,590 --> 00:54:20,590
research can be pushed forward
for the benefit of humanity

1078
00:54:20,590 --> 00:54:24,270
instead of held down and kind of
like.

1079
00:54:24,810 --> 00:54:26,890
You know, written in the secret
book.

1080
00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:32,850
So the the push isn't to not
necessarily to decriminalize or

1081
00:54:32,850 --> 00:54:35,690
legalize as much as it is to
deschedule.

1082
00:54:36,050 --> 00:54:39,970
So right now Silospin and all
psychedelic mushrooms are

1083
00:54:39,970 --> 00:54:42,890
scheduled as schedule one
controlled substance that's the

1084
00:54:42,890 --> 00:54:45,530
same as cocaine,
methamphetamines, heroin,

1085
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:47,970
etcetera.
So if you're producing them, you

1086
00:54:47,970 --> 00:54:52,010
now have a clandestine line,
clandestine laboratory where

1087
00:54:52,010 --> 00:54:54,170
you're producing a schedule one
controlled substance.

1088
00:54:54,690 --> 00:54:57,330
If you go over any state lines
now, you're talking about

1089
00:54:57,330 --> 00:55:00,770
federal prison time real fast
and a lot of it, right.

1090
00:55:01,050 --> 00:55:03,650
And if there's a loaded handgun
there, it's, you know, they're

1091
00:55:04,250 --> 00:55:06,010
10 years for a bullet or
whatever, right?

1092
00:55:07,490 --> 00:55:10,650
So there are a lot of things in
the way.

1093
00:55:10,650 --> 00:55:15,250
The big push right now is to
deschedule it so that it it's

1094
00:55:15,610 --> 00:55:21,530
not even, it doesn't belong on
the same list as amphetamines

1095
00:55:21,530 --> 00:55:24,840
and opiates, right?
It's just a totally different

1096
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,880
caliber substance across the
board.

1097
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,680
And until that descheduling
occurs is just too many

1098
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,720
roadblocks for a lot of the
science.

1099
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:36,960
But at the same time the the dam
is breaking.

1100
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,920
There are more people than ever,
you know, with cannabis

1101
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,160
legalization, you know that's
that's contrary to federal law

1102
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,600
and cannabis is still scheduled
run controlled substance too.

1103
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:53,190
However, we're seeing more and
more municipalities and states

1104
00:55:53,190 --> 00:55:56,190
give the finger to the feds and
say that we, we think that this

1105
00:55:56,190 --> 00:55:59,430
is good for our population or
our population wants us because

1106
00:55:59,430 --> 00:56:03,350
it's, you know, government of
foreign by the people, right.

1107
00:56:04,590 --> 00:56:06,070
And I'm really excited for that
day.

1108
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:09,470
You know, that'll be a really
cool day in human consciousness

1109
00:56:09,470 --> 00:56:13,190
whenever folks can get access to
what they need without having to

1110
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:17,540
worry about those issues.
And it should be a fun day too,

1111
00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:20,900
to hear all the giggling.
Yeah, yeah.

1112
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:26,620
She had talked about kind of the
dangers of procuring those and

1113
00:56:26,620 --> 00:56:28,900
and studying dangerous part
about it is getting him.

1114
00:56:29,060 --> 00:56:32,540
Yeah.
And they were, you know kind of

1115
00:56:32,540 --> 00:56:37,060
like it's it's strange because a
lot of times in educational

1116
00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:40,500
research it it is kind of, it
falls under the guise of

1117
00:56:40,500 --> 00:56:41,820
conformity, right.
So.

1118
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:45,750
There were a group of people
that really had to buck a trend

1119
00:56:46,030 --> 00:56:50,030
and and take risks involved
because of something they were

1120
00:56:50,030 --> 00:56:52,910
passionate about and believed
in, really sucked me in.

1121
00:56:52,910 --> 00:56:56,190
And that that's what got me even
more interested in mushrooms,

1122
00:56:56,190 --> 00:56:58,430
because I thought about this
stuff in passing and I love

1123
00:56:58,470 --> 00:57:03,190
eating mushrooms, but just the
something that has the

1124
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:06,870
capability and the and the
benefits that, you know, hearing

1125
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:09,710
you describe the the system of
how a mushroom works.

1126
00:57:10,100 --> 00:57:13,900
It seems bigger than.
You know what I like to put on

1127
00:57:13,900 --> 00:57:14,780
my steak.
Right.

1128
00:57:15,340 --> 00:57:17,740
Right.
Well if we look at the you know

1129
00:57:18,060 --> 00:57:21,380
those compounds Losa been right,
which is the active comment

1130
00:57:21,700 --> 00:57:25,660
compound in slow to be the
genius mushrooms.

1131
00:57:26,260 --> 00:57:29,220
It's arguably that that's
actually put out there to keep

1132
00:57:29,220 --> 00:57:33,340
bugs from eating that mushroom.
It's a it's you know basically

1133
00:57:33,340 --> 00:57:36,340
an insecticide of sort.
But we being the funny monkeys

1134
00:57:36,340 --> 00:57:40,860
we are like oh man the that
mushroom make sky turn purple

1135
00:57:41,020 --> 00:57:44,620
you know or whatever it's give
me more of that.

1136
00:57:46,020 --> 00:57:48,780
So I'm always curious about, you
know, how it all started, you

1137
00:57:48,780 --> 00:57:51,740
know, with man coming out of the
jungle, so to speak, and

1138
00:57:51,980 --> 00:57:54,340
patrolling across the plains and
encountering it.

1139
00:57:54,340 --> 00:57:57,740
Whether it's like Darren's
McKenna, who was really, really

1140
00:57:57,740 --> 00:58:02,540
full of crap and Paul Stamits,
his best friend, say, or you

1141
00:58:02,540 --> 00:58:06,180
know what, how that all happened
and the the rise of human

1142
00:58:06,180 --> 00:58:09,100
culture and what information has
been suppressed along the way

1143
00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:13,060
because of, you know, the fungi
are arguably our our first

1144
00:58:13,060 --> 00:58:15,820
livation, so to speak.
The first rule of, you know,

1145
00:58:15,820 --> 00:58:18,660
the, the Puritan beer law has no
psychedelics are allowed in

1146
00:58:18,660 --> 00:58:23,420
beer, right, Because beer was
just a vessel for storage of

1147
00:58:23,420 --> 00:58:28,140
those fungi beforehand, right.
Meat originated as a storage

1148
00:58:28,140 --> 00:58:30,730
vessel for those magic
mushrooms, so to speak.

1149
00:58:30,730 --> 00:58:32,410
So they would make a livation
out of it.

1150
00:58:32,650 --> 00:58:34,890
They would store.
Alright, honey doesn't rot, we

1151
00:58:34,890 --> 00:58:37,610
all know that, right?
The entire microbial store.

1152
00:58:37,610 --> 00:58:40,490
The mushrooms inside the honey.
Guess what?

1153
00:58:40,490 --> 00:58:41,970
They don't rot.
You can pull them out for

1154
00:58:41,970 --> 00:58:45,170
Sacramento use at a later time.
Not a little bit of water to

1155
00:58:45,170 --> 00:58:46,290
that.
What are we making?

1156
00:58:46,530 --> 00:58:50,370
We're making Mead and we have
Mead infused with psychedelics,

1157
00:58:50,730 --> 00:58:52,770
right?
That's the cheapest preservative

1158
00:58:53,050 --> 00:58:56,370
alcohol, so it didn't take very
long before humans start to

1159
00:58:56,370 --> 00:58:59,090
figure that out.
And then beer and all that came

1160
00:58:59,090 --> 00:59:02,290
later.
But before all that, the first

1161
00:59:02,290 --> 00:59:06,410
booze that humans ever drank was
just as a preservative for magic

1162
00:59:06,410 --> 00:59:08,370
mushrooms.
That's interesting.

1163
00:59:08,410 --> 00:59:12,250
I never heard that.
And it's ironic that our booze

1164
00:59:12,250 --> 00:59:16,410
lobby in Wisconsin is, you know,
probably what's keeping cannabis

1165
00:59:16,410 --> 00:59:19,770
from being legalized to a large
degree and definitely going to

1166
00:59:19,770 --> 00:59:23,610
be a voice against this, You
know, for whatever that's worth.

1167
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,400
Yeah, man, that's fascinating to
think about.

1168
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:27,760
I had never heard that.
You hear it.

1169
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,160
Like, there's so many of those
stories that you can find where,

1170
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,560
you know, this population at
this time in history was

1171
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,040
affected by this all the way to,
like, biblical stuff that's

1172
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,240
connected to different effects
of, you know, eating mushrooms.

1173
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,360
But I had never, I had never
heard that one.

1174
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:44,880
That's fascinating.
Yeah.

1175
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,720
So I'm really curious.
As that happened in our past,

1176
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,690
our brains grew, right?
And then you know it, it.

1177
00:59:51,850 --> 00:59:55,610
We begin to evolve with it over
time, and our brains begin to

1178
00:59:55,610 --> 00:59:58,130
really rapidly advance at the
same time.

1179
00:59:58,610 --> 01:00:00,050
And then we stun it.
All this.

1180
01:00:00,210 --> 01:00:03,170
Now what happens when we begin
doing this as a society can?

1181
01:00:03,170 --> 01:00:05,570
What's the next evolution of our
brain going to look like?

1182
01:00:05,690 --> 01:00:06,130
Right.
Yeah.

1183
01:00:06,130 --> 01:00:08,970
What what will the history book
say in 2000, years from now

1184
01:00:09,170 --> 01:00:12,050
about the the years 2100, you
know?

1185
01:00:12,050 --> 01:00:13,970
And it'll all be documented this
time around.

1186
01:00:14,130 --> 01:00:16,970
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's fascinating, man.

1187
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:23,280
Well, lot of lot of depth there.
I appreciate you coming on and

1188
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,280
and chatting and it was just
good getting to know you that

1189
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,440
it's just such a fascinating
space.

1190
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:34,240
What's what's next on the
horizon for your, it's probably

1191
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,480
coming up to busy season for the
food plot thing, right?

1192
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,200
Like, what kind of studies do
you have in mind?

1193
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,560
So I I've executed A multitier
approach with launching this

1194
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:43,800
business.
I did a lot of guerrilla

1195
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,750
marketing, you know.
As you can imagine, there was a

1196
01:00:46,750 --> 01:00:49,950
lot of you open one door and
people say you're batshit crazy

1197
01:00:49,950 --> 01:00:52,470
and you open the next door and
say you're a genius, right.

1198
01:00:53,110 --> 01:00:55,910
So it was a lot of this, just
getting the word out that this

1199
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:57,830
is the thing about deer and
mushrooms.

1200
01:00:58,470 --> 01:01:02,150
So I went after the top tier.
So this would be like

1201
01:01:02,150 --> 01:01:04,230
Mississippi State University's
Deer Lab.

1202
01:01:04,750 --> 01:01:08,030
Doctor Bronson Strickland, who's
maybe the authority and Steve

1203
01:01:08,030 --> 01:01:10,190
Damaris of the authorities on
deer right now.

1204
01:01:10,790 --> 01:01:15,240
Doctor Deer Doctor James Kroll.
You know all of these top level

1205
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:19,880
of what's the word?
I'm looking for research

1206
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,880
researchers And then also went
after the top tier hunters, guys

1207
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,480
like our Wisconsin's own Dane
Info, right?

1208
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,280
Who's the big buck serial killer
is my personal favorite living

1209
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,000
hunter.
He's basically the new Fred Bear

1210
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,640
of sorts, right?
And Don Higgins down in Illinois

1211
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,200
and Kip Adams, president of the
NDA, which is formerly the QDMA

1212
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,530
right.
And so podcasters and the other

1213
01:01:43,530 --> 01:01:47,410
influencers and hey, you know,
basically on to prove it.

1214
01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:50,650
Premise, I've got this product,
you've got land.

1215
01:01:51,090 --> 01:01:52,530
Let's see what the deer do,
right.

1216
01:01:52,530 --> 01:01:56,210
Here's my results, Here's yours.
Shared all my research, you

1217
01:01:56,210 --> 01:01:58,210
know, and we're right in the
pocket now.

1218
01:01:58,210 --> 01:01:59,570
It's all beginning to bear
fruit.

1219
01:01:59,570 --> 01:02:02,210
And this will be the first
hunting season that other humans

1220
01:02:02,210 --> 01:02:05,290
other than me have got a chance
to see this and employ it.

1221
01:02:05,610 --> 01:02:08,810
So the first ones I made were at
a Mossy Oak Field day in Indiana

1222
01:02:08,810 --> 01:02:11,000
in April.
And those are producing fruit

1223
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,640
right now.
And that landowner told me that

1224
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,800
the deer are all over it and
he's not going in there, check

1225
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,360
that camera, because it's too
close to hunting season and

1226
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,560
there's bucks in there that he's
really proud of.

1227
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,280
So I'm stoked.
And it it's kind of becoming a

1228
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,040
reoccurring theme across
landowners.

1229
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,400
I we'll see what happens.
The next two years are going to

1230
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,960
be fascinating in the deer world
because of this.

1231
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,400
So I'm kind of out on my I'm
past the Prove It tour, which

1232
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,880
was this summer, and now I'm on
the breakout tour.

1233
01:02:36,220 --> 01:02:38,620
Which is people are starting to
see for themselves.

1234
01:02:38,780 --> 01:02:41,500
Words getting out.
I'm starting to book more and

1235
01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:44,220
more appearances and I really
want to be the hunting world's

1236
01:02:44,220 --> 01:02:45,500
mushroom guy, hunting world
daughter.

1237
01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:47,020
I have a mushroom guy I love to
hunt.

1238
01:02:47,380 --> 01:02:48,860
It seems like a natural fit to
me.

1239
01:02:48,860 --> 01:02:51,460
Seems like everything that I
ever did in my life and God ever

1240
01:02:51,460 --> 01:02:53,740
did for me pointed me right to
the spot.

1241
01:02:54,100 --> 01:02:57,380
And that's a warm fuzzy feeling
to to feel like you're where you

1242
01:02:57,380 --> 01:03:00,900
belong when you belong there.
And you know, and it's all

1243
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:04,220
through the grace of God, of
course, and my wife and our

1244
01:03:04,220 --> 01:03:08,170
family and.
But I'm really excited about

1245
01:03:08,170 --> 01:03:11,850
what the future holds right now.
So Michael, Habitat is my other

1246
01:03:11,850 --> 01:03:14,570
business, Michael being Latin
for mushroom and Habitat being

1247
01:03:14,570 --> 01:03:16,610
obvious.
But if you break that word down

1248
01:03:16,610 --> 01:03:20,650
differently, it's my cohabitat.
I mean, we cohabitate these

1249
01:03:20,650 --> 01:03:23,010
spaces with the the animals,
right?

1250
01:03:23,010 --> 01:03:25,090
And so there's something there
for us too.

1251
01:03:25,090 --> 01:03:27,370
So I'm making a fungal rich,
basically.

1252
01:03:27,810 --> 01:03:30,530
I call it fungicentrism.
I approach everything from a

1253
01:03:30,530 --> 01:03:33,690
fungal standpoint first.
Instead of thinking about it

1254
01:03:33,690 --> 01:03:35,850
later, I feed the soil.
Soil feeds plants.

1255
01:03:35,850 --> 01:03:39,530
It's that easy, right?
The soil, food web, the fungi,

1256
01:03:39,530 --> 01:03:42,610
and it can change the pH, they
can change the minimum content.

1257
01:03:42,850 --> 01:03:45,530
They can do everything.
All you got to do is help them.

1258
01:03:45,530 --> 01:03:48,130
So why the heck do I want to do
all this work when I can put the

1259
01:03:48,130 --> 01:03:51,650
mushroom to work?
And so that's my new goal is to

1260
01:03:51,650 --> 01:03:53,810
educate when owners.
So if we're in a traditional

1261
01:03:53,810 --> 01:03:57,450
open food plotting system, we
can build you some amazing soil,

1262
01:03:57,450 --> 01:04:01,370
smartly out of weight.
Waste resources if you're.

1263
01:04:02,130 --> 01:04:05,810
A landowner that has, you know,
timber, you know that you don't

1264
01:04:05,810 --> 01:04:08,610
want to bring down or rocky
ground or Pines or whatever it

1265
01:04:08,610 --> 01:04:10,410
may be.
Pines are, you know, the hardest

1266
01:04:10,410 --> 01:04:13,290
part for a Deer Hunter because
of deer love Pines, but what are

1267
01:04:13,290 --> 01:04:15,170
you going to grow in there?
He can't get any food in there.

1268
01:04:15,650 --> 01:04:18,370
Well, this excels in Pines,
right.

1269
01:04:18,370 --> 01:04:23,010
So changing the focus from you
know where it's where it's been

1270
01:04:23,010 --> 01:04:26,410
with these you know I I would
like to call them Tractor riders

1271
01:04:26,610 --> 01:04:29,730
set in the script to write where
we got to play in all this and.

1272
01:04:30,190 --> 01:04:33,030
This, all this expensive seed
has to be put down every year

1273
01:04:33,030 --> 01:04:37,070
and you got to spray and change
the focus to here's the point,

1274
01:04:37,070 --> 01:04:38,510
here's the food that they're
already eating.

1275
01:04:38,590 --> 01:04:41,750
They're crushing this food and
we can grow it right?

1276
01:04:42,110 --> 01:04:44,590
And instead of leaving it all
will and nilly scattered around

1277
01:04:44,590 --> 01:04:47,350
the landscape, we can make a
hyper concentration in one spot.

1278
01:04:47,350 --> 01:04:50,590
A honey hole so to speak, right
And accessible to people who

1279
01:04:50,590 --> 01:04:52,670
don't have tillable land.
That's another huge.

1280
01:04:52,670 --> 01:04:54,950
Piece What happens if your
rocky, your ground's too rocky

1281
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:56,990
or it's, you know, too vertical
or.

1282
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,240
You're not allowed to do
anything.

1283
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:00,920
You know.
Grandpa won't let you cut down a

1284
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:02,520
tree.
It'll be your farm in 20 years.

1285
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,560
But it's Grandpa's farm.
Until then, you know, whatever

1286
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:09,680
it may be, you know, this is,
this is a suitable option and

1287
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,360
maybe your only option.
If you're in an area where I'm

1288
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,320
at, there's such high deer
numbers.

1289
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,440
Good luck getting any crops off
the ground without electric

1290
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,720
fencing, brother.
You know, but we can get this

1291
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,780
off the ground.
You know, you had to when you

1292
01:05:21,780 --> 01:05:24,020
were, when you were kind of
taking that initial tour, right?

1293
01:05:24,020 --> 01:05:26,860
And talking to these people that
have hunted for years and years

1294
01:05:26,860 --> 01:05:31,500
and years, did you run into
anybody that said they had used

1295
01:05:31,660 --> 01:05:36,820
mushrooms in their hunting?
Ever use mushrooms to target

1296
01:05:36,820 --> 01:05:40,420
deer as far as growing them?
There are hunters who know that

1297
01:05:40,420 --> 01:05:43,940
this is a thing and it's one of
their best kept secrets, and

1298
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:46,460
they're not exactly too happy
that it's getting communicated.

1299
01:05:46,460 --> 01:05:48,390
I was going to say yeah.
Yeah.

1300
01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:50,870
And I'm sorry for those guys.
It was part of my we lost too.

1301
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:52,430
I just gave away my best kept
secret.

1302
01:05:52,430 --> 01:05:56,350
So yeah, it goes both sides.
I mean, there are people who

1303
01:05:56,390 --> 01:06:00,030
have that professors, you know,
say, oh, you know, every deer in

1304
01:06:00,030 --> 01:06:03,110
the Upper Peninsula is starving.
And if a deer is eating a

1305
01:06:03,110 --> 01:06:05,510
mushroom, it's because it's
starving, right.

1306
01:06:05,710 --> 01:06:08,990
And despite the science to the
contrary, you know that.

1307
01:06:09,830 --> 01:06:13,190
So you just, you have to learn
to let stuff roll off your

1308
01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:14,750
sleeve.
And it's pretty hard for me as

1309
01:06:14,750 --> 01:06:16,830
people pleaser to hear that kind
of crap, you know?

1310
01:06:18,060 --> 01:06:21,580
But it's just the way folks are
and just got to keep going

1311
01:06:21,580 --> 01:06:23,220
forward.
And do you?

1312
01:06:23,220 --> 01:06:26,020
Yeah, it's interesting because I
mean, I've hunted for a long

1313
01:06:26,020 --> 01:06:28,900
time, been around a lot of, a
lot of hunters and it's nothing

1314
01:06:28,900 --> 01:06:31,140
I ever even thought of.
And I don't know why.

1315
01:06:31,540 --> 01:06:34,540
Not talking about it, it makes
complete sense.

1316
01:06:34,940 --> 01:06:37,060
It took me a long time to come
to grips with the two.

1317
01:06:37,060 --> 01:06:39,740
I spent the first few years just
trying to disprove this.

1318
01:06:39,940 --> 01:06:42,180
Like just get it off.
Like get it out of my brain.

1319
01:06:42,180 --> 01:06:44,100
Okay, this is the thing that I
saw.

1320
01:06:44,730 --> 01:06:46,850
And as a mushroom farmer forger
the deer carrying up my

1321
01:06:46,850 --> 01:06:50,730
mushrooms, you know maybe it's
maybe it's a neighborhood kid

1322
01:06:50,730 --> 01:06:56,730
coming by or a cat or I don't
know then any anything, right.

1323
01:06:56,730 --> 01:06:59,810
Maybe they're doing it but it's
just an anomaly because you know

1324
01:06:59,810 --> 01:07:02,130
the deer or something and that's
been a few years trying to

1325
01:07:02,130 --> 01:07:04,370
disprove it and I couldn't
disprove it and that's when I

1326
01:07:04,370 --> 01:07:09,290
knew it was something legit.
And you know of course back then

1327
01:07:09,290 --> 01:07:12,130
this was pre pandemic.
It seems like every scientific

1328
01:07:12,130 --> 01:07:14,290
paper got uploaded during the
pandemic, but.

1329
01:07:15,090 --> 01:07:17,890
There was nothing.
I mean it was really scouring

1330
01:07:17,890 --> 01:07:22,050
the Internet to find very little
information And then since then

1331
01:07:22,050 --> 01:07:25,170
I've been able to you know build
a a big body of knowledge with

1332
01:07:25,170 --> 01:07:30,250
this and a lot of resources that
I've been able to uncover and so

1333
01:07:30,250 --> 01:07:32,130
on.
So it is definitive proof.

1334
01:07:32,130 --> 01:07:33,890
Now we're way past the proof
stage.

1335
01:07:34,530 --> 01:07:36,650
But it took a while.
I mean, it took me a few years

1336
01:07:36,810 --> 01:07:40,530
to to be like, okay, I'm not as
crazy as I think, you know, deer

1337
01:07:40,530 --> 01:07:42,730
actually eat this and I would
talk to old timers and.

1338
01:07:43,030 --> 01:07:44,910
One old timer said, Oh yeah,
they do.

1339
01:07:44,910 --> 01:07:47,910
I've shot, you know, whenever I
used to bow hunt, I I hunted

1340
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:49,150
over honey, mushrooms every
year.

1341
01:07:49,590 --> 01:07:52,110
And then the next old timer,
I've been in the woods my whole

1342
01:07:52,110 --> 01:07:55,990
life and never seen that, you
know, and I can see that, you

1343
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:59,310
know, because even if you know
what to look for for the proof,

1344
01:07:59,670 --> 01:08:01,270
it's pretty hard to find the
evidence.

1345
01:08:01,750 --> 01:08:04,430
You know, they they're a little
bit of a sloppy eater and that

1346
01:08:04,430 --> 01:08:06,720
helps your cause.
Because they'll be like a

1347
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:09,880
definitive bite mark out of this
mushroom and a few crumbles here

1348
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,720
and you can kind of, you know,
see their tracks as they walked

1349
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,680
and there's a few more crumbles
along and you know, you begin to

1350
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:19,520
pick things out like that.
And then, you know, you find a

1351
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,640
video or someone made friends
with deer and they're five feet

1352
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,240
away from them filming them
eating all these mushrooms.

1353
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,319
And you can't believe that this
person has access to that animal

1354
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:30,359
like that.
And.

1355
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,240
You know, so it's, it's been on
a pretty intense roller coaster.

1356
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:37,520
Yeah, that was a piece of the
discovering that you sent me

1357
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:38,800
there, right?
I was surprised.

1358
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,040
And they they had like canned
footage of.

1359
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:43,120
Yeah, so that guy's name is
Richard Smith.

1360
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,760
He's an outdoor rider.
And I guess a would be

1361
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,479
researcher and biologist.
I mean citizen scientists.

1362
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,640
I can't bash on that.
I'm citizen scientist.

1363
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,439
I don't know him.
I just heard his name for the

1364
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:57,160
first time the other day when
that came out.

1365
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,000
But I was filming with the guy
who runs that show, Brian.

1366
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:04,960
Into 906 Outdoors, and we're
filming like multiple days

1367
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,760
before that episode was to be
released.

1368
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,560
Now he has another camera person
that works with him, a lady who

1369
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,399
hosts the show, right.
Because he's getting, having

1370
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:14,800
health issues and stuff like
that.

1371
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,000
And kind of taking a step back.
Well, she filmed that up in

1372
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,120
Marquette with that guy.
And Brian just kind of, you

1373
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,120
know, said something about it
and kind of brushed it off.

1374
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,800
And I was like, whoa, whoa.
And so we begin to talk about

1375
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,479
it.
And he's like, oh, you'll you'll

1376
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:31,779
see when it airs.
OK, so we finished filming All

1377
01:09:31,779 --> 01:09:35,340
About mushroom food plots and
Mushrooms and deer and that airs

1378
01:09:35,340 --> 01:09:39,939
September 11th on Discovery.
And then, you know, Monday night

1379
01:09:39,939 --> 01:09:42,140
that airs or whatever.
Well, I don't really watch TV,

1380
01:09:42,140 --> 01:09:44,220
but I thought about it
afterwards, so I checked YouTube

1381
01:09:44,220 --> 01:09:47,380
and holy crap, you know, this
guy's, you know, he's got

1382
01:09:47,380 --> 01:09:50,700
amazing footage and he's 5 yards
away from these deer that he's

1383
01:09:50,700 --> 01:09:53,590
befriended and.
You know, I'm not there in

1384
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:56,230
person, so I have no way of
saying that, you know, he didn't

1385
01:09:56,230 --> 01:09:57,750
put something on the mushroom,
blah blah blah.

1386
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:59,830
And I'm not trying to cast shade
on the guy or anything like

1387
01:09:59,830 --> 01:10:01,270
that, but they're crushing
mushrooms.

1388
01:10:02,190 --> 01:10:04,750
Mushrooms right there in front
of them, and they're eating the

1389
01:10:04,750 --> 01:10:08,550
same mushrooms I see him eat and
that everything looks on par

1390
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:12,110
right now with what I've found.
And I'm trying to endorse this

1391
01:10:12,110 --> 01:10:13,950
guy because I feel like there
are a lot of people that really

1392
01:10:13,950 --> 01:10:16,310
hate him and I'm not sure what
that's about.

1393
01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:20,670
And I'm not trying to lump my my
eggs in his basket or anything.

1394
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:25,510
But it just so happens that his
his, you know footage supports

1395
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:26,870
what I found.
Yeah.

1396
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:31,910
And because I was, I mean I was
surprised to see that you know

1397
01:10:32,110 --> 01:10:36,170
the because you said and I think
seasoned hunters in the woods

1398
01:10:36,330 --> 01:10:39,890
could probably they we've all
probably seen him eat mushrooms

1399
01:10:39,890 --> 01:10:42,490
at times, but it's not something
that we can.

1400
01:10:42,490 --> 01:10:44,090
Many yards away.
Can you connect that?

1401
01:10:44,090 --> 01:10:47,130
That's an acorn or a mushroom,
which what's he eating exactly,

1402
01:10:47,170 --> 01:10:49,490
exactly?
Add some brows or some woody

1403
01:10:49,490 --> 01:10:51,330
vegetation in between.
Now you're looking through

1404
01:10:51,330 --> 01:10:53,410
obstacles.
Yep, 100%.

1405
01:10:53,410 --> 01:10:54,810
And.
And like you said, they take

1406
01:10:54,810 --> 01:10:58,010
that bite, It's in their mouth.
It's a leaf, it's an acorn, It's

1407
01:10:58,010 --> 01:10:59,610
whatever's on the ground.
We don't know what they're

1408
01:10:59,610 --> 01:11:02,980
eating.
So, and that's not, at least for

1409
01:11:02,980 --> 01:11:05,340
me and I think probably for most
hunters, it's not the first

1410
01:11:05,340 --> 01:11:08,700
thing that I've been looking for
in the woods when I'm trying to,

1411
01:11:08,700 --> 01:11:11,540
you know, find a place to hunt
or what that food, what that

1412
01:11:11,540 --> 01:11:13,260
deer's eating or where it's
sleeping.

1413
01:11:13,820 --> 01:11:18,940
So I think it's probably been
pretty glossed over by a lot of

1414
01:11:18,940 --> 01:11:23,220
us that just something that's,
you know, trivial, But like I

1415
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:26,230
said, it it when you talk about
it, it makes so much sense

1416
01:11:26,230 --> 01:11:29,910
because like, I mean, we eat
them, why wouldn't the deer?

1417
01:11:29,910 --> 01:11:32,630
Why wouldn't they?
Yeah, it's it's one of those

1418
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:34,030
things.
I'm looking for it, you know,

1419
01:11:34,030 --> 01:11:35,950
I'm a forager.
I'm looking for mushrooms.

1420
01:11:36,350 --> 01:11:38,390
I'm a mushroom farmer.
I'm around mushrooms.

1421
01:11:38,990 --> 01:11:41,630
I hunt too.
I love watching the deer show.

1422
01:11:41,630 --> 01:11:44,350
That's what we call it.
Deer TV, you know, out at the

1423
01:11:44,350 --> 01:11:46,910
farm, watching the deer out on
the alfalfa fields and such.

1424
01:11:46,910 --> 01:11:50,270
Right.
And just one of those things,

1425
01:11:50,270 --> 01:11:52,870
even though I'm all those
things, it took me a while to

1426
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:56,010
see it.
And not only to see it, but put

1427
01:11:56,250 --> 01:12:00,610
value on it.
You know, to say okay, Yes, deer

1428
01:12:00,610 --> 01:12:02,970
eat mushrooms.
I grow mushrooms.

1429
01:12:03,450 --> 01:12:05,010
Well, now I hate the deer,
right?

1430
01:12:05,090 --> 01:12:08,690
Or you look at it the opposite
side and say, oh man, I've got a

1431
01:12:08,690 --> 01:12:12,170
golden opportunity here to find
out what mushrooms, deer like

1432
01:12:12,490 --> 01:12:14,520
that I can grow.
Right.

1433
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:18,120
And that's kind of the way we
caught embracing the suck in the

1434
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:21,200
guide world, right?
You got to turn that dark spot

1435
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,960
into the silver from the silver
lining into your brightest

1436
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:25,760
moment, you know?
And if you can do that, you win

1437
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:30,320
at everything, right?
And so your perspective is, is

1438
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,200
everything and your attitudes
everything in life.

1439
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,920
So I began to get less down on
the deer eating the mushrooms

1440
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,800
and how much I hated them from
doing it, and more optimistic

1441
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,200
about, well, hold on, this is
something we could take

1442
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,810
advantage of.
And the NDA's own, you know

1443
01:12:43,810 --> 01:12:47,370
National Deer Association, their
own charts bear out that during

1444
01:12:47,370 --> 01:12:50,690
hunting season from the
beginning of of you know

1445
01:12:50,690 --> 01:12:54,050
September on or whatever, the
the amount of mushrooms that

1446
01:12:54,050 --> 01:12:59,250
they eat is on huge rise, right.
So the the most conservative NDA

1447
01:12:59,250 --> 01:13:03,170
charts going to show them 10 to
15% in the same time it's going

1448
01:13:03,170 --> 01:13:06,530
to show crops and grasses being
reduced as part of their diet.

1449
01:13:06,890 --> 01:13:09,490
So how much money and time are
we spending on growing crops for

1450
01:13:09,490 --> 01:13:13,180
these damn things, you know?
There's a better way, yeah, and

1451
01:13:13,180 --> 01:13:15,220
it makes complete sense.
You start, you start thinking

1452
01:13:15,220 --> 01:13:18,060
about crops getting harvested.
The growing season comes.

1453
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:19,660
To us, yeah, you got it.
Yeah.

1454
01:13:19,660 --> 01:13:23,940
The nutritive quality, you know,
goes down plus is beans or peas

1455
01:13:23,940 --> 01:13:26,620
or winter wheat or rye or
whatever.

1456
01:13:26,620 --> 01:13:29,180
And even then it's, it's gross
stage specific.

1457
01:13:29,180 --> 01:13:32,180
If your cereal grains aren't
under 10 inches, you know

1458
01:13:32,180 --> 01:13:34,340
they're not preferred and stuff
like that.

1459
01:13:34,500 --> 01:13:36,580
Yeah.
And like and preferred is this

1460
01:13:36,580 --> 01:13:38,140
is a key term.
That's what you were talking

1461
01:13:38,140 --> 01:13:41,690
about earlier.
Because they we think about, you

1462
01:13:41,690 --> 01:13:43,290
know, it as an opportunist,
right?

1463
01:13:43,290 --> 01:13:46,050
I think that's probably a lot of
people's initial thought of a

1464
01:13:46,050 --> 01:13:48,130
deer eating as well.
If it's there, I'm going to eat

1465
01:13:48,130 --> 01:13:49,730
it.
But that's not what I've.

1466
01:13:49,770 --> 01:13:52,130
If it's there and it's awesome,
I'm going to eat it.

1467
01:13:52,370 --> 01:13:55,490
Imagine going to your fridge at
2:00 AM and all your favorite

1468
01:13:55,490 --> 01:13:57,770
things are in there.
And then there's a whole bunch

1469
01:13:57,810 --> 01:14:00,730
of very healthy stuff.
Which ones you going to take

1470
01:14:00,730 --> 01:14:02,810
out?
It's this a no brainer.

1471
01:14:02,810 --> 01:14:05,370
You ain't going to talk about
2:00 AM to get a salad.

1472
01:14:05,370 --> 01:14:06,810
Brother, you know when to get
the.

1473
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,560
Real double stuffed steak
burrito or whatever, right?

1474
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:12,880
OK.
It's the same thing with them

1475
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,120
when they they hit the the salad
bar, you know, they're or the

1476
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,920
the, you know, the buffet.
They're not after the salad bar,

1477
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:21,560
so to speak.
They're looking for the best

1478
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:22,920
part.
This is their steak, man.

1479
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,280
This is your steak dinner.
Literally.

1480
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:26,560
Hands down.
Yeah.

1481
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,760
And different times of year
makes so much, you know, makes

1482
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,560
so much of a difference too.
Because like you were saying

1483
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:39,950
that the with the summer food
going down, we've all, we all

1484
01:14:39,950 --> 01:14:43,430
see the ebbs and flows on trail
cameras right about like you'll

1485
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:47,110
have a ton of deer for a whole
month and then seemingly they're

1486
01:14:47,110 --> 01:14:49,550
all gone, but not connected to
the rut, different times of the

1487
01:14:49,590 --> 01:14:53,070
year, it's like spring, winter,
they're moving because of food

1488
01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:57,910
and in cover.
So when you can connect to those

1489
01:14:57,910 --> 01:15:00,550
two things the way that you can
with mushrooms, I think it's a

1490
01:15:00,550 --> 01:15:03,430
pretty unique space.
Yeah, I mean, this is a kid that

1491
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:06,270
having a great baiting set up
and deep cover.

1492
01:15:06,670 --> 01:15:09,270
Yeah.
Only thing is, is the bait costs

1493
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:11,470
a lot of money and you have to
go in there all the time.

1494
01:15:11,470 --> 01:15:13,910
With this, we just drop it and
it's good for five years.

1495
01:15:14,190 --> 01:15:17,550
I was going to ask that how long
like when you do you call it

1496
01:15:17,550 --> 01:15:18,310
planting?
What is it?

1497
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:20,110
Yeah, we'll.
Use the word cultivate or

1498
01:15:20,110 --> 01:15:22,510
planting or whatever.
So we're going to assemble or

1499
01:15:22,510 --> 01:15:26,590
cultivate the plot right, which
is about size of a pool table

1500
01:15:26,590 --> 01:15:30,590
for what we call a starter pack
and then a level pickup truck

1501
01:15:30,590 --> 01:15:32,310
load of sawdust.
We make this out of strong

1502
01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:34,710
sawdust right?
Waste resources.

1503
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,000
And you can skip the straw if
you want to, but it'll be more

1504
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,160
productive if you use it right.
I get straw for free after

1505
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:44,560
Halloween, right?
Or you know the giant Pine

1506
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:47,200
Mountain ski jump, right?
Well, I don't go to that because

1507
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:50,000
there's a lot of drunk people
that are jerks, but there's a

1508
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,280
million straw bales in that
parking lot afterwards.

1509
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:54,720
So a lot of winter activities
like that, right?

1510
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,680
Even Lambeau Field, after
tailgating day, you might be

1511
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,640
able to cruise through there in
the tailgating area and pick you

1512
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:01,640
up a Bale straw, right?
Or two.

1513
01:16:02,180 --> 01:16:04,460
And then a sawmill there, Are
you kidding me?

1514
01:16:04,460 --> 01:16:06,380
This is northern Wisconsin in
the UP.

1515
01:16:06,380 --> 01:16:08,660
There's a sawmill there.
I mean, they outnumber bars and

1516
01:16:08,660 --> 01:16:10,700
churches, which is saying
something up here.

1517
01:16:12,100 --> 01:16:13,740
So.
And even if it didn't, your

1518
01:16:13,740 --> 01:16:16,700
municipality has, you know, the
the wood chips, you know or

1519
01:16:16,700 --> 01:16:19,820
whatever, right?
Well, all that is mushroom food,

1520
01:16:20,180 --> 01:16:21,940
food, right?
As long as it's not straight up,

1521
01:16:21,940 --> 01:16:26,700
pine, sawdust, it works.
And so we get these really cheap

1522
01:16:26,700 --> 01:16:29,380
or free materials.
For me, they're mostly free.

1523
01:16:29,990 --> 01:16:36,470
One level pickup truck of
sawdust is 2 yards roughly, and

1524
01:16:36,630 --> 01:16:39,110
that's two bags of spawn, 2
bales of straw.

1525
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:43,150
And that pickup truck is enough
to do 2 giants pool table size

1526
01:16:43,150 --> 01:16:46,990
areas or one big one.
We call that the double down.

1527
01:16:47,390 --> 01:16:51,230
And I mean, it's going to
produce food depending on how

1528
01:16:51,230 --> 01:16:53,390
aggressive you are with it,
because you can water it, making

1529
01:16:53,390 --> 01:16:56,150
a nonstop irrigation thing.
We can, we can definitely

1530
01:16:56,710 --> 01:16:59,810
manipulate this.
To produce food when we want it,

1531
01:16:59,810 --> 01:17:05,970
which is really big, right?
But if we water it, we're going

1532
01:17:05,970 --> 01:17:08,850
to get it to rot faster, so it's
not going to last as long.

1533
01:17:08,850 --> 01:17:11,370
Does that make sense?
We're we're just going to make

1534
01:17:11,370 --> 01:17:13,690
it grow more mushrooms faster
instead of letting them grow the

1535
01:17:13,690 --> 01:17:15,370
same amount of mushrooms over a
longer timeline.

1536
01:17:17,820 --> 01:17:20,220
We make it last five years
easily, yeah.

1537
01:17:20,220 --> 01:17:24,100
Eight years is you wouldn't be
too uncommon to see a couple

1538
01:17:24,100 --> 01:17:26,700
random mushrooms 8 or 10 years
later in that same spot.

1539
01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:29,220
I'm not going to say it's going
to blanket the floor like it is

1540
01:17:29,220 --> 01:17:32,780
whenever it's going in its
prime, but it wouldn't be

1541
01:17:32,780 --> 01:17:34,860
uncommon.
And the byproduct is 2 to 3

1542
01:17:34,860 --> 01:17:37,500
inches of beautiful black
compost that's left over.

1543
01:17:37,980 --> 01:17:41,820
And I mean amazing quality
compost takes a forest 50 to 100

1544
01:17:41,820 --> 01:17:44,780
years to make an inch of soil
The best regenerative

1545
01:17:44,780 --> 01:17:47,770
agriculture practices. 35 to 50
years?

1546
01:17:47,770 --> 01:17:50,690
OK, we can do it in as little as
two or three.

1547
01:17:51,610 --> 01:17:54,250
That's insane.
And it improves the browse

1548
01:17:54,250 --> 01:17:55,810
quality of all the plants
nearby.

1549
01:17:56,490 --> 01:17:58,570
Deer selective right?
Improve.

1550
01:17:58,570 --> 01:18:02,010
Browse quality, improve food.
That's what I just heard.

1551
01:18:02,290 --> 01:18:05,090
Makes those plants right around
this more attractive.

1552
01:18:05,610 --> 01:18:08,010
Which kind of is a 1-2 punch,
right?

1553
01:18:08,290 --> 01:18:11,250
And if you wanted to put a
little food plot in there, do

1554
01:18:11,250 --> 01:18:12,930
this first.
Let it all rot down in the

1555
01:18:12,930 --> 01:18:15,620
beautiful soil.
And then open up the canopy in

1556
01:18:15,620 --> 01:18:17,220
that spot if you wanted to,
right?

1557
01:18:17,220 --> 01:18:20,500
You have gorgeous soil there.
Or you just add new wood chips

1558
01:18:20,500 --> 01:18:23,300
every few years.
You know, just so they have

1559
01:18:23,300 --> 01:18:27,300
something to eat, right?
Yeah, another straw Bale or a

1560
01:18:27,300 --> 01:18:30,100
little bit more wood chips, like
1/2 yard instead of a whole yard

1561
01:18:30,100 --> 01:18:32,420
or whatever.
Every year, every two years,

1562
01:18:32,420 --> 01:18:33,700
every three years.
What do you got?

1563
01:18:33,700 --> 01:18:35,540
You know, what do you have
access to and when can you get

1564
01:18:35,540 --> 01:18:37,900
out there?
It's the best time to do any

1565
01:18:37,900 --> 01:18:40,620
habitat works right now, second
best time, as soon as you have

1566
01:18:40,620 --> 01:18:42,850
at the moment.
You know, and just like planting

1567
01:18:42,850 --> 01:18:45,170
a fruit tree, the best time to
put this in is right now.

1568
01:18:45,450 --> 01:18:47,730
Second best time is you know, as
soon as you can.

1569
01:18:49,450 --> 01:18:51,970
It's interesting to hear that.
Is there a is there a place for

1570
01:18:51,970 --> 01:18:53,210
that?
Or is that happening already

1571
01:18:53,210 --> 01:18:58,450
where mushrooms are becoming
more ingrained with agriculture

1572
01:18:58,650 --> 01:19:00,210
anywhere?
Not really.

1573
01:19:00,650 --> 01:19:02,250
So is there a place for it that
you've?

1574
01:19:02,330 --> 01:19:03,850
Found or not, there's a huge
place for this.

1575
01:19:03,850 --> 01:19:07,410
So if you have cows which are
also ruminants and you want to

1576
01:19:07,410 --> 01:19:09,250
save some money on your your
feed bill.

1577
01:19:09,780 --> 01:19:12,340
This is a really smart thing for
you to put in your property,

1578
01:19:12,900 --> 01:19:14,580
right?
Because the cows at the farm

1579
01:19:14,580 --> 01:19:17,020
where I was there weren't my
cows, so I'm not allowed to feed

1580
01:19:17,020 --> 01:19:19,140
them mushrooms.
But for some reason they keep

1581
01:19:19,140 --> 01:19:21,340
breaking out of their pastures
and coming in there and eating

1582
01:19:21,340 --> 01:19:23,420
all my mushrooms.
So you tell me if they like it,

1583
01:19:24,180 --> 01:19:27,380
you know?
But if I had heard of cows, I'd

1584
01:19:27,380 --> 01:19:30,340
be doing this in a heartbeat,
because if I save $1.00 off my

1585
01:19:30,340 --> 01:19:33,340
feet, cost is worth it and I
know it's going to prove the

1586
01:19:33,340 --> 01:19:36,140
brows quality everything nearby.
So what I'm doing now?

1587
01:19:36,630 --> 01:19:38,750
Because I'm experimenting with
combining this with the

1588
01:19:38,750 --> 01:19:41,030
traditional food plot on that
edge setting.

1589
01:19:41,070 --> 01:19:44,870
So basically I'm making a big 10
foot wide mushroom food plot

1590
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:48,430
that's 100 feet hundreds of feet
long, just one truckload of

1591
01:19:48,430 --> 01:19:51,310
sawdust at a time, all the way
around the edge of a food plot,

1592
01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:53,270
right?
Well, that's going to improve

1593
01:19:53,270 --> 01:19:56,230
the nutrient shuttling in that
food plot and it's going to

1594
01:19:56,230 --> 01:19:58,630
increase the browse quality in
that food plot.

1595
01:19:58,670 --> 01:20:01,070
It's also going to add a new
layer of food around the edge of

1596
01:20:01,110 --> 01:20:04,780
that food plot, right?
But if I did this in conjunction

1597
01:20:04,780 --> 01:20:08,660
with agriculture in particular,
I could really really, you know,

1598
01:20:08,660 --> 01:20:12,180
feed some cows with something
like this, you know, then for

1599
01:20:12,180 --> 01:20:16,100
me, I have such insane deer
numbers that I just need as much

1600
01:20:16,100 --> 01:20:18,660
food as I can on the ground.
And it has to be perennial.

1601
01:20:18,660 --> 01:20:21,300
It has to grow back.
So Clover and mushrooms are

1602
01:20:21,300 --> 01:20:23,900
where I'm concentrating my
perennial effort right now and

1603
01:20:23,900 --> 01:20:25,860
browse, you know, hinge cutting
trees.

1604
01:20:25,860 --> 01:20:28,980
That's the best stuff we can
feed our deer is those stump

1605
01:20:28,980 --> 01:20:31,100
sprouts.
Those are insanely nutritious,

1606
01:20:31,100 --> 01:20:34,100
you know, whether it's a hinge
cut tree or a tree that we've

1607
01:20:34,100 --> 01:20:38,580
cut off and that this is trying
to regrow again or those sprouts

1608
01:20:38,580 --> 01:20:42,700
and that, you know, those buds
and things like that are as

1609
01:20:42,700 --> 01:20:45,580
nutritious as any alfalfa or
more nutritious.

1610
01:20:45,900 --> 01:20:48,660
And that guy who's been my
mentor in this industry, he kind

1611
01:20:48,660 --> 01:20:51,700
of invented that, so to speak,
Hinge cutting.

1612
01:20:51,700 --> 01:20:54,340
His name's Jim Ward.
He's very famous in the outdoor

1613
01:20:54,340 --> 01:20:58,130
industry if he has happened to
listen and thank you Jim, for

1614
01:20:58,130 --> 01:21:01,130
everything.
But for years everybody told him

1615
01:21:01,130 --> 01:21:04,170
he was batshit crazy.
You're you know, literally the

1616
01:21:04,170 --> 01:21:07,370
experts came right out against
them and then eventually a

1617
01:21:07,370 --> 01:21:09,970
biologist got a hold of it and
said hold up, there's a lot to

1618
01:21:09,970 --> 01:21:13,210
this.
And they never quite, you know,

1619
01:21:13,370 --> 01:21:16,250
took him in or whatever and said
Yep, Jim's been right the whole

1620
01:21:16,250 --> 01:21:19,730
time, you know, or whatever.
But he was for 15 plus years

1621
01:21:19,730 --> 01:21:21,330
before folks started buying into
it.

1622
01:21:21,330 --> 01:21:24,850
And all the the other folks in
the dear world that you know

1623
01:21:25,090 --> 01:21:27,970
hire consultants and stuff, they
know who he is and there's a

1624
01:21:27,970 --> 01:21:30,770
reason that they're all starting
to hinge cut and so on and so

1625
01:21:30,770 --> 01:21:33,570
forth, right.
And Jim does much more than

1626
01:21:33,570 --> 01:21:35,690
hinge cutting.
I'm going to say that right now.

1627
01:21:35,690 --> 01:21:39,570
But that's really, you know, him
sticking to his guns like that.

1628
01:21:39,570 --> 01:21:43,410
I'm very fortunate to be able to
you know have him as a mentor so

1629
01:21:43,410 --> 01:21:46,410
to speak in this industry.
But he went through, you know,

1630
01:21:46,410 --> 01:21:50,370
kind of that long road of just
everybody says you're crazy.

1631
01:21:50,370 --> 01:21:52,530
You know, you shouldn't be
believing what you're seeing.

1632
01:21:52,530 --> 01:21:54,210
You're making more out of this
than it should be.

1633
01:21:54,210 --> 01:21:57,890
And so it's kind of ironic that
God brought us both together and

1634
01:21:57,890 --> 01:22:00,410
you know, said, hey, hey, you're
getting ready to go through hell

1635
01:22:00,410 --> 01:22:02,130
with this where everyone's going
to think you're crazy.

1636
01:22:02,130 --> 01:22:06,310
You need this guy, you know, so
for whatever it's worth.

1637
01:22:06,750 --> 01:22:09,350
Yeah, what about, like, crop
agriculture?

1638
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:11,990
Does anybody use mushrooms in
any ways there?

1639
01:22:12,030 --> 01:22:15,270
So that's where this mushroom
that we're using originated

1640
01:22:15,270 --> 01:22:21,720
though it's grown extensively in
open field Ag systems and China

1641
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:23,680
right now.
And then after a couple years,

1642
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,160
they actually turn it over,
they're using it to remediate

1643
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:30,080
the land.
So yeah, it becomes beautiful,

1644
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:33,920
fertile soil at the end, right.
And so they can sell the the

1645
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:37,440
land for a very high markup
versus what they bought it after

1646
01:22:37,440 --> 01:22:39,160
they grow mushrooms there for a
few years.

1647
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:41,800
And that's kind of one of the
strategies that you're seeing

1648
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:47,460
over and over in the ag world in
I believe it was Romania where

1649
01:22:47,460 --> 01:22:51,340
this really came to be, you
know, for farming this

1650
01:22:51,340 --> 01:22:54,020
particular mushroom called
strefari or wine cap, right.

1651
01:22:55,300 --> 01:22:57,860
They would grow wheat field and
then on the edge of the wheat

1652
01:22:57,860 --> 01:23:00,180
field they would grow this.
So all that, their chaff and

1653
01:23:00,180 --> 01:23:02,380
their leftovers would get
shuttled over to this.

1654
01:23:02,380 --> 01:23:04,660
And they will grow the mushroom
there right, with the waste

1655
01:23:04,940 --> 01:23:06,700
right on the edge.
And then of course the compost

1656
01:23:06,700 --> 01:23:08,420
would happen and then shuttle
that back in.

1657
01:23:08,740 --> 01:23:11,100
And that's a little more moving
stuff around than I'd like to

1658
01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:14,160
do, but that that was the way
that they did it.

1659
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:16,800
Of course, it gave them higher
yields, much, much higher

1660
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,960
yields.
So there is a lot of people who

1661
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:22,040
use this in your garden.
I don't recommend that.

1662
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:23,840
They're better mushrooms to grow
in your garden.

1663
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:27,000
And the reason I say that is
this mushroom occurs frequently

1664
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,560
and it rots really fast too.
It doesn't stand up very well in

1665
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:32,600
refrigeration, It's only good
for like 5 days in

1666
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:35,840
refrigeration, and it doesn't
stand up really well out in the

1667
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:36,960
field.
So you're going to have a ton of

1668
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:40,870
fungus, gnats and other insects,
which if you're an organic

1669
01:23:40,870 --> 01:23:43,430
farmer, you kind of want that
because you want the whole soil

1670
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:46,630
food web and the the food web of
the spiders and the praying

1671
01:23:46,630 --> 01:23:49,230
mantises to prosper.
But what you're really doing is

1672
01:23:49,230 --> 01:23:51,910
double dog daring the deer to
jump that fence and destroy your

1673
01:23:51,910 --> 01:23:53,710
crops and rabbits and squirrels,
right?

1674
01:23:54,270 --> 01:23:56,590
But there are other mushrooms,
especially those that are false

1675
01:23:56,590 --> 01:24:00,510
specific, like the blue it that
are really they do the same

1676
01:24:00,510 --> 01:24:02,670
thing for your soil.
They're a little bit slower, but

1677
01:24:02,670 --> 01:24:04,110
they do the same thing for your
soil.

1678
01:24:04,350 --> 01:24:06,790
And then they only fruit in the
autumn, which means that, you

1679
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:10,830
know you don't have to deal with
all the buggy, nasty mushrooms

1680
01:24:10,830 --> 01:24:13,630
that you you can just let them
rot and deal with the

1681
01:24:13,630 --> 01:24:16,510
consequences or you can pick
them all, you know, whether

1682
01:24:16,510 --> 01:24:18,550
they're you're going to use them
or not and then have to deal

1683
01:24:18,550 --> 01:24:21,350
with that they constantly.
So there are a lot of folks

1684
01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:23,470
who'll tell people, Oh yeah, use
wine cap in your garden.

1685
01:24:23,470 --> 01:24:26,350
I don't think so.
As a person who's ran large

1686
01:24:26,350 --> 01:24:29,560
scale gardens, I can tell you
that that I personally believe

1687
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:31,400
that's a terrible idea in
comparison.

1688
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:34,440
Unless you have a high fenced
off and you love mushrooms and

1689
01:24:34,440 --> 01:24:36,680
you want to deal with picking
them all the time because you're

1690
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:38,240
going to pick a lot all the
time.

1691
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:42,240
I I personally recommend the
Blue it for the Garden, but it

1692
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,600
does have crossover.
You can use this.

1693
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:47,880
I'm working with a few seed
companies right now,

1694
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,200
particularly one that I really
like, Vitalized Seed Company.

1695
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:56,010
They're Michigan based.
Shout out Jared now and they

1696
01:24:56,010 --> 01:24:59,010
have a like a 12 part system.
So the the first part in the

1697
01:24:59,010 --> 01:25:01,650
spring is called Nitro boost and
the second part in the autumn is

1698
01:25:01,650 --> 01:25:04,050
called carbon load.
Now for things to rot properly

1699
01:25:04,050 --> 01:25:06,570
move through the soil we need to
balance carbon and nitrogen

1700
01:25:06,570 --> 01:25:10,650
ratio about 24 to one.
You say 20, There are 30 parts

1701
01:25:10,650 --> 01:25:13,290
to 1:00 somewhere in there.
And so this is kind of designed

1702
01:25:13,290 --> 01:25:15,250
for that.
And then they're also, they use

1703
01:25:15,250 --> 01:25:18,090
a lot of inoculants to help
bolster your soil and get your

1704
01:25:18,330 --> 01:25:20,330
your food web going, which I
really love.

1705
01:25:22,530 --> 01:25:25,470
But also it's extremely diverse.
And they're blend.

1706
01:25:25,470 --> 01:25:28,750
And one of the things I'm
working with them is to reduce

1707
01:25:28,750 --> 01:25:31,750
the thatch or the overburden
that tends to accumulate in food

1708
01:25:31,750 --> 01:25:33,750
plots.
You know, you use rye, then you

1709
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:36,110
come in and crimp it, and then
you go in with buckwheat in the

1710
01:25:36,110 --> 01:25:39,150
spring, and then, you know, you
kind of get a layer of thatch

1711
01:25:39,150 --> 01:25:43,070
built up real fast.
Well, this mushroom is very

1712
01:25:43,070 --> 01:25:45,430
aggressive in that regard, and
it will actually begin to eat

1713
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:48,070
that thatch.
So it's after traffic.

1714
01:25:48,230 --> 01:25:50,990
We a lot of times the thatch
builds up because of the

1715
01:25:50,990 --> 01:25:54,630
microhyzal or the mushrooms that
are good with plants that are in

1716
01:25:54,630 --> 01:25:58,030
that living arrangement in the
soil, they're not really suited

1717
01:25:58,030 --> 01:26:00,430
to eating all that dead
overburden on top.

1718
01:26:00,430 --> 01:26:03,550
They need a different mushroom
that is good at eating dead

1719
01:26:03,550 --> 01:26:06,630
stuff, right called a
sacratropher sacrophitic

1720
01:26:06,630 --> 01:26:08,590
mushroom.
So when you put those two and

1721
01:26:08,590 --> 01:26:11,110
play together, now that
sacrifice is feeding the

1722
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:14,550
ectomicrohizole or the
endomicrohizole in the soil, and

1723
01:26:14,670 --> 01:26:17,790
beautiful things begin to
happen, right, because it's

1724
01:26:17,790 --> 01:26:21,110
balanced and it's appropriate.
And so by installing this SAP,

1725
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:25,190
atroph or saprophytic mushroom
into this system, we can get a

1726
01:26:25,190 --> 01:26:27,510
lot more biological life to
happen faster.

1727
01:26:27,750 --> 01:26:31,230
And like we said earlier, here
where everything has that short

1728
01:26:31,230 --> 01:26:34,750
decomposition window right, we
can get a lot more decomposition

1729
01:26:34,750 --> 01:26:37,270
faster.
On in a shorter time you've got

1730
01:26:37,270 --> 01:26:38,790
it.
So we're reducing the

1731
01:26:38,790 --> 01:26:41,230
overburden.
Will say it's a Maple sand that

1732
01:26:41,230 --> 01:26:42,710
has too many leaves on the
ground.

1733
01:26:42,710 --> 01:26:46,060
This is common, right?
Or there's just a lot of small

1734
01:26:46,060 --> 01:26:48,900
sticks or whatever, maybe.
Well, this mushroom is native to

1735
01:26:48,900 --> 01:26:52,060
North America, the entire
northern hemisphere of the world

1736
01:26:52,060 --> 01:26:55,900
for that matter, right?
So it's just not very commonly

1737
01:26:55,900 --> 01:26:58,460
occurring.
However, when you begin to put

1738
01:26:58,460 --> 01:27:00,500
it on your property, you
wouldn't be surprised.

1739
01:27:00,500 --> 01:27:03,100
After a few years, you start to
see it in a couple random spots,

1740
01:27:03,460 --> 01:27:06,500
and what it'll do is begin to
eliminate that overburden and

1741
01:27:06,500 --> 01:27:09,840
kick your soil life back up.
Does that make sense?

1742
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,920
Yeah, absolutely.
And that can, and it'll just

1743
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:16,080
kind of leap out on its own when
the deer eat it, you know,

1744
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:19,280
they're the perfect vessel for
passing those spores on, right?

1745
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:22,320
So they eat the mushroom, then
they walk through the forest and

1746
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:25,840
then deposit, you know, the
biomass back down after they've

1747
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:29,520
ruminated it.
And that biomass is the kind of

1748
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:32,960
the perfect vessel for the
spores to germinate in and give

1749
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,560
it a new spot of real.
Estate and starts off with some

1750
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:37,080
food, right?
Got it.

1751
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:39,090
Yeah, yeah.
It's kind of like nature's

1752
01:27:39,090 --> 01:27:40,490
design.
If you really think about it,

1753
01:27:40,490 --> 01:27:42,610
it's almost smarter than we are.
Absolutely.

1754
01:27:42,610 --> 01:27:46,010
Well, that's not surprising.
It's in a lot of ways, I

1755
01:27:46,010 --> 01:27:48,530
appreciate you coming on, man.
It was an awesome conversation.

1756
01:27:48,610 --> 01:27:52,010
I I hope your business kills it
and I I hope you just keep on

1757
01:27:52,010 --> 01:27:54,090
doing great things, man.
I wish that all that would

1758
01:27:54,090 --> 01:27:57,250
happen as well and I appreciate
you guys for having me in here.

1759
01:27:57,450 --> 01:27:59,010
We're going to shout out Dan,
the producer.

1760
01:27:59,050 --> 01:28:03,170
Yeah, Dan's doing it.
And of course, if folks don't

1761
01:28:03,170 --> 01:28:05,730
know, you and I have talked
before up north whenever you

1762
01:28:05,730 --> 01:28:08,690
used to live in the UP and it's
always it was good to talk with

1763
01:28:08,690 --> 01:28:11,450
you, Brad.
And even though Buckskin Bob's

1764
01:28:11,450 --> 01:28:14,650
not in the corner of the room
cracking jokes and his canned

1765
01:28:14,650 --> 01:28:17,610
oyster mushrooms, I love Bob
Black.

1766
01:28:17,610 --> 01:28:19,770
He's amazing up north, figure,
you know?

1767
01:28:20,090 --> 01:28:22,330
He is man.
I hope they erect the statue to

1768
01:28:22,330 --> 01:28:25,210
him after he passes.
Hopefully he passes many years

1769
01:28:25,210 --> 01:28:27,450
from now, but I appreciate you
giving me the opportunity to

1770
01:28:27,450 --> 01:28:31,850
sporulate some minds, and if you
or anybody else ever wants to

1771
01:28:31,850 --> 01:28:33,410
talk about this again, you know
where I'm at.

1772
01:28:33,610 --> 01:28:35,490
Appreciate you, Matt.
Appreciate you.

1773
01:28:45,490 --> 01:28:45,770
Oh.