Mariah Ann Maass - Music, Virality, and Choosin' Wisconsin - Episode #72

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What's up friends, welcome back
to Rooted Wisconsin.

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Appreciate you for clicking
another episode.

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Grateful to have you here.
Today's episode is with Mariah

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Moss.
You may have seen her on TikTok

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with a fun play on an Ella
Langley song.

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Mariah chooses Wisconsin instead
of choosing Texas musician.

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Her career has just taken off.
She also works in the healthcare

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system helping cancer patients
and fascinating journey for a 24

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year old and really excited to
see where music career takes

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her.
We have an awesome conversation

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about getting started with that
going viral on TikTok for

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choosing Wisconsin, developing
social media contracts, now

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getting sponsorships and
balancing creator, musician and

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healthcare worker and also being
a 24 year old awesome

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conversation.
Can't wait to share it with you.

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subscribe when you dig this

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episode.
Let's get it going.

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Mariah Moss.
again.

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So yeah, that's my attention
just to try to have and like try

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to do it through an authentic
lens of conversation and not,

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not like the canned thing that
we run into sometimes.

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So that's what I try for.
Yeah, I love that because like,

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I feel like we're so stereotyped
in that way.

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Like, yeah, we love beer cheese
and the Packers and the Brewers

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and all the things, but it's
like so much more than that.

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It's like a community of like
just genuinely mid Midwest, nice

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people, you know, and that's so
special.

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You don't find that other
places.

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For sure, and the a saying that
always got me was like culture

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from the comes from the coasts.
I don't know if you've ever

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heard that, but like culture
from the coasts and in some ways

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it's true.
Like especially with like tech

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and stuff like that, like it, it
does happen, but I think there,

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one, there's valuable pieces of
ours that could be shot that

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direction too.
And, and two, I, I don't know,

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wait.
Like maybe we pluck the things

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that are good about it, but that
happens throughout the world

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everywhere.
And we also have these things

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that don't get a spotlight shown
on them, like fantastic artists

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and musicians and talented,
talented people that like

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growing up here.
It's like, Oh, my goodness,

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this, this MLB pitcher who
played for three years, grew up

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a couple of miles down the road,
and that's like the star.

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But in reality, that story is so
widespread, it's just not as

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commonly found.
I think so.

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I don't know.
It's a point of pride for me.

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I love, love it.
You know, I like like I love

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Wisconsin.
So did.

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Were you born in Wisconsin?
Yes.

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OK, born and raised.
Born and raised.

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OK by Madison or?
Not in Madison, so it was here

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in Appleton.
My folks are from Hortonville

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originally, and then I went to
school in lacrosse and then that

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college degree brought me to
Madison.

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So for radiation therapy, I
worked down at the at the

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hospital at UW Health down
there.

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But yeah, so I've kind of been
all over a little bit.

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I had to see like different
parts and it's been awesome.

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Yeah.
Speak great enough things about

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lacrosse, Madison back home.
Each one has their own things,

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so.
For sure, yeah.

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That's one of the reasons I'm so
excited to chat with you today.

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The the contrast of the two
things you're doing like you

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have a solid career that I can
tell you're super passionate

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about.
And then music too.

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Yeah, which probably, you know,
the the meteoric rise that

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social media can thrust upon
you.

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Yeah.
Has happened to you.

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Yeah.
And that has to add a lot of

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intricacies to life about, OK,
what's next right now, what do I

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do?
Exactly.

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Well, and that was the big
question too after like

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graduating with my degree and
like, yes, I was happy with the

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the job and my patience and all,
and all of that, but I was like,

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you know what, what else could I
be doing?

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So I just, you know, picked up
my guitar again and that really

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just like led me down this road.
And then with TikTok recently

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just taken off, I was like, wow,
like this is this is crazy and

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people are enjoying it, which is
still imposter syndrome to me.

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I'm like, I don't know, it's
just it's crazy, but people are

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are really liking it.
And even though I do like funny

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skits, dumb stuff sometimes like
it's leading people down the

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road of like, oh, you actually
like write your own stuff.

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And this is really good.
And we really like this so much.

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So it's cool.
I get to like play both parts

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and do both things cause like it
shows like a different side of

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me and then my artistic side of
me too.

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So.
But yeah, social media totally

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changes the game.
Yeah, sure.

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Especially in the artist world
now.

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It's yeah, becoming an artist or
like growing your career is so

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much different and so much more
power is in the artist hands,

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which is awesome.
So to hear right in there, you

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put it down for a little while
like you didn't play for a

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little bit.
No, it, that's why this whole

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thing is so funny is 'cause like
I started lessons when I was

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like 12, something like that.
And then in the high school I

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wasn't really into super
anything musical.

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Like I did choir and musical for
like 1 year, but I was more into

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like the sports, like soccer and
stuff like that.

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And even in college, like a
little bit more concerned with

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the party atmosphere, I guess.
You know, lacrosse.

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Exactly.
And then after that it was like,

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all right, what are we going to
do now?

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So I kind of just like picked it
up again and that muscle memory

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like kicked back in and I was
like, I took a trip down to

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Nashville in the fall of 2024.
So a little like a year after I

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had graduated, a year of
radiation therapy like under my

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belt.
And it wasn't even for music

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really intentions.
It was just for a girls trip

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down there and the hotel hadn't
opened yet.

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And so, so soon as I got off the
plane, it was me, my suitcase.

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And we walked into this place
called the Listening Room.

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And I don't know.
Have you ever been to Nashville

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before?
You have.

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So it's just there's on every
street.

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It's like live music everywhere.
And this place was like a panel

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of songwriters, like, sharing
what they had written, even if

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there aren't even the ones who
sing the song, you know?

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And I found that to be like,
that happens a lot too, where

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it's like the person who sings
the song doesn't even didn't

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really have a hand in writing
it.

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I'm just learning so many
things.

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But I remember just sitting in
that room and being like, I feel

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the biggest calling to do this
right now.

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This is just the coolest thing
to like watch people like share

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their story and whatever that
may be.

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And I was, I just felt so
inspired in that moment.

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So after that trip, I just kind
of came back and picked up the

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guitar again.
And it's been a crazy ride ever

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since.
So.

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I bet.
Yeah, yeah, He there's a lot to

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it right there.
And I'm really called to those

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writers rounds too, by the way.
Like I listen to music lyrically

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that that's what starts and ends
my passion with music.

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Like I, I play guitar.
I've been playing since I was

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like 14, but like I got to the
point where I can play, you

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know, the first position chords
and then I just started writing

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words, you know, like I just
wanted to cobble by with the

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guitar, get to a point where I
could play.

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Somebody could ask for a song
and I can know the chords and

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play, but it's the words that do
it for me.

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And those writers rounds, the
one, one thing that really pulls

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me into them is a lot of times
you'll hear the person who wrote

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it sing it and they sing it more
how it was in their mind when

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they wrote it.
And almost always I like it

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better.
And there's something to it.

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There's something that the
universe like put some type of

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power or intention or something
around the person who wrote

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those words and brought them to
life.

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There's more conviction when
they sing it and I can't get

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enough of it.
I know it's it's really

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beautiful and just like so
awesome to experience it first

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hand and like just listening to
that and also like what a really

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great guitar sounds like.
Oh my God.

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It just like, yeah, is the most
uplifting and beautiful sound

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you've ever heard.
And it's lyrically I'm.

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I also listen to that too,
obviously, as a songwriter, just

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like how people say things and
how they said it in like, maybe

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a different way this time
because at the end of the day,

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like, I didn't go to school for
songwriting.

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But essentially, we're all kind
of talking about the same

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things, just putting it in a
different way.

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And that's what I love is like,
things can be said so many

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different ways.
And like, it's just so inspiring

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to see so many, like, young
women in the country scene right

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now just, like, absolutely
dominating.

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And I just love it.
And I love to see it.

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And yeah, no, it's just
Nashville's awesome.

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I really want to go back,
hopefully sometime soon, but

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yeah.
Yeah.

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So how did those two things
develop?

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Like how I guess let me start
here.

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When you were making music and
like, it probably took a while

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to get proficient when you
started the lessons or whatever.

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But then once you realize, say,
I'm like kind of good at this.

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Did you have any intention at
that time to pursue it as a

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career or was it more of a kind
of passion or hobby or whatever

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it was?
And how did how did you navigate

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that and the more traditional
quote UN quote path of like

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college career type thing?
Right.

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So basically I would say like
after the Nashville trip, I like

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came home and tried to write my
first song.

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I was like, I think I kind of
understand how it goes and wrote

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that and just kind of thought
nobody would ever hear it.

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Like just thought it was kind of
just for me, you know, but I

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always had it in the back of my
head.

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I was like, I really want to
like join a band, you know, even

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if it's like not singing my own
songs, but like cover songs just

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to like sing and, you know, do
all of that and like entertain.

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And so it just kind of all fell
into my lap.

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There were these guys that like
had invited me to be a part of

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their band.
So I kind of joined that and did

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like the cover gig scene.
And that was always really fun.

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But the more I got better at
writing, I found that like

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sharing my songs was just like
so important When I saw like the

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reaction and the feedback for
people, like that's just like

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the most rewarding thing is
seeing people be like, I really

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related to that and I really
needed that right now.

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So as soon as I got that kind of
reaction back, I was like, I

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really think I need to because I
still do cover gigs, but like

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now it's more I try to divide it
up into covers and originals.

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Like last night we were just
playing a gig in Madison with it

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was Me.
So I did like a whole original

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set.
And then this other band,

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Marengo, they're more of like an
indie sound.

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So we both did 2 very different,
different sounds, all original

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music.
And like, granted, not everybody

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knows the words.
People are still having a great

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time and they want to hear
something new.

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So it just, it took a while that
bravery, 'cause it's so scary to

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be like, this is the song I
wrote.

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I hope you like it.
Yeah, it it took a long time for

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me to be like, OK, this is I
want to go more the original

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path.
But all those cover gates really

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helped me like know how to work
a crowd, know how the sound

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check goes, like know how to
recover when the plane is flying

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and we got some turbulence, but
we're going to land it anyways.

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So it's like it's taught me so
many things.

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And so I'm grateful for it.
But my heart's definitely like

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00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,840
in the original music.
And so once I kind of realized

227
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,400
that, I was like, okay, like
let's start getting recording

228
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,360
things and finding people to do
that.

229
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,560
And it's just been so rewarding
ever since.

230
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:27,000
So yeah, it was a hobby.
And then I was like, I think

231
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,160
this could be actually really
something just based on like the

232
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,480
reaction from people.
So it's always so like just

233
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,480
rewarding when people are like,
I really like that and I really

234
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,880
needed that today.
So, yeah, yeah.

235
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,680
That the the the the the
difference between like cover

236
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:49,200
shows and original shows.
I never, I never put in enough

237
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,920
work to become a proficient
writer.

238
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:58,080
Like, I think I was always kind
of intimidated, if I'm being

239
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,480
real intimidated by great
songwriters who are able to move

240
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,120
me with just about every song
they write.

241
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,120
Like I listen to somebody like
Izbo and I'm like, how does this

242
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,920
human exist?
Or somebody like Childers or

243
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,040
whatever.
Like how does that thing happen?

244
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,920
And I was all, and then, you
know, I jumped into the career

245
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,240
side of things and then picked
up my guitar less and less as

246
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:25,240
things went on.
But I remember, like in playing

247
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,680
cover gigs, I was never really,
it was about the money at the

248
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:31,360
end for me.
Like it was about making the

249
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,760
making the cash.
But in playing the gig, like I

250
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,120
was always kind of headstrong.
Like I'm going to play the music

251
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,360
I like and listen to and what I
think, what I enjoy.

252
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,720
And that's not like, you know, I
wouldn't tailor to the crowd.

253
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,720
I, you know, I would play like,
you know, I'd get up and bang

254
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,160
the guitar with things like
Childers for two hours and not,

255
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,800
and if it wasn't the venue, I
wouldn't I, you know, I had this

256
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,120
weird power struggle between
like, why was I even doing it?

257
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,960
And then secondarily, was I
getting any satisfaction on?

258
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,920
And ultimately I didn't do that
for very long.

259
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,440
I played, you know, X amount of
shows over a couple years and

260
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,240
then I was just like, I just
wasn't getting the satisfaction

261
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,400
out of it.
But I have to think the next,

262
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,920
what I would consider the next
step or like an adjacent step

263
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,720
when you when you get up and try
to pull that veil down of these

264
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,840
are my words, this is my
creation.

265
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,560
It has to feel so much different
when you let it out right?

266
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,120
It does.
It feels very different and it's

267
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,920
just so vulnerable.
So vulnerable.

268
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,000
Like last night for the first
time, I played this song that

269
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,560
I've kind of sneak peeked on
like TikTok a little bit.

270
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,440
It's called Saddling up ANYWAYS.
And I plan to release it

271
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,680
probably soon.
But I knew it was like really

272
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,480
important to finish it because I
started back in November and the

273
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,600
words weren't coming back then.
And I was like, I'm just going

274
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,480
to take a little break from this
and come back when I'm ready.

275
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,800
And it's a, it's a song inspired
by like mental health.

276
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:10,120
I'd lost a friend to suicide
back in 2018.

277
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,280
Her name is Kennedy.
And I knew it was really

278
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,960
important to just not let her
memory die and, like, let

279
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,960
everybody know, like, how great
of a person this was.

280
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,560
And but it's such an emotional
song.

281
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,520
And for playing it for the first
time and playing any song for

282
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,920
the first time is just so
vulnerable and so scary.

283
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:36,080
But like, it's when you get that
feedback of like, wow, like that

284
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,280
I needed that.
It's just so rewarding.

285
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,080
And like, I just, there's
nothing better than that.

286
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,400
But yes, it is.
It's very different than playing

287
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,520
just like a cover gig of Fishing
in the Dark.

288
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,920
Here we go.
Like this is my really sad song.

289
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,560
Who's ready?
Get your tissues out.

290
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,440
So yeah, you got to read the
room to on like because at cover

291
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,000
gigs too, I even try to, I try
to throw in some originals here

292
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,960
and there.
If like I've got people, they're

293
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,000
listening.
I'm like, I like to be like, hey

294
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,200
guys, I write songs too.
This is one of them.

295
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:07,800
But you just really got to read
the room.

296
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,600
And if they want fishing in the
dark, hell, they'll get fishing

297
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,000
in the dark and that's fine and
we'll go on with it.

298
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,960
But I always try to throw my
originals in there too.

299
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:21,280
Yeah, probably an interesting
angle of it too is the side of,

300
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,760
I think the casual listener just
feels like the songwriter just

301
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,640
writes everything about
themselves, right?

302
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,000
And so that's not always the
case.

303
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,920
Like you write about a lot of
different things.

304
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,600
So many things.
Yeah.

305
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:38,160
And there's this problem for me
anyway, the the few originals

306
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,280
that I did write and share and
play for people, there was this

307
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,720
thing of like, it's not, you
know, just because I wrote these

308
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,800
words, it's not directly about
me, but they probably think it

309
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,720
is.
And that's an uncomfortableness

310
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,880
that I think is probably a
really common mental hurdle.

311
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,720
I I would think, no, I don't
know.

312
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,320
Absolutely, absolutely.
I feel like sometimes too, and

313
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,040
I, I've said this on Tic Tac
perform like I feel like I

314
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,400
didn't write this about myself,
but I don't know where it's

315
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,079
coming from, so I have to get it
out.

316
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,319
So it's like it's kind of just
navigating like, you know, I

317
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,880
think this is a good hook, but I
don't really necessarily think

318
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,000
this is about me, but that's OK.
You know, that's the beauty of

319
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,280
of songwriting is being able to,
like, write the song and like,

320
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,319
that's what they do Nashville
all the time.

321
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,880
Like other people cut other
people's songs all the time.

322
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,560
So it's, yeah, it's awesome.
Yeah, so let's talk about

323
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,680
TikTok.
So I mean social social media

324
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,520
was huge for you.
I like the ME and a lot of other

325
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,600
people like scrolling through.
You definitely like with the

326
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,840
choosing Wisconsin thing.
Obviously you had like this

327
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:47,440
firecracker and like what was
your experience with it?

328
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,840
I'm guessing the front part
about it is the same with a

329
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,920
bunch of viral videos.
Like you just throw it together,

330
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,560
post it, don't think it's going
to do anything, and then you

331
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,120
wake up the next day and it's
going ham.

332
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,720
It I, I literally remember like
recording that video in my car

333
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,080
and then because it was just an
idea that came out of nowhere

334
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,920
and I was like, why do I have a
feeling that this might like be

335
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,360
funny and like do something?
And then sure enough, within the

336
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,000
first like few hours we were
like.

337
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,560
Oh, so you kind of had an
inkling about?

338
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,080
It I did because like I had gone
viral a few times on my other

339
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,480
page, like back in college over
stupid stuff, but you know, and

340
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,760
so I knew the the feeling of
like getting a mentioned or like

341
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,880
going viral a few times.
So like when I recorded it

342
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,680
because I have like my personal
page and then like my music

343
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:40,080
page, I just was like, I just
feel like this is people are

344
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,880
going to like this.
And sure enough, like people

345
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,480
really liked it and then people
were putting their own spin on

346
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,520
it and I was like, Oh my God, I
think I just started to trend

347
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,640
and like people really liked it
and like people from other

348
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,240
states were doing their own
versions and I was like, Oh my

349
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,360
God, what have I just started So
but it was awesome.

350
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,080
It was awesome.
The that was great.

351
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,240
Like people liked it and yeah.
OK, So what?

352
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,880
Like it sounds your social media
history was further back then.

353
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,440
What?
What where?

354
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,720
Where does that start?
Like what?

355
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,840
What?
What was the other content or

356
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,240
like what?
Did you ever do it with

357
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,000
intention or was it just like?
Storytelling that was literally

358
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,920
just a like my personal TikTok
that I had in college that I

359
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,800
would just like, you know,
follow some trends and some

360
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,960
things would go viral.
But like then once I started to

361
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,920
take music seriously, I was
like, OK, I'm going to make a

362
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,960
different TikTok.
People know this is about music.

363
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,400
And then my other page can be
for literally whatever I want.

364
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,600
So like it's I've kind of
combined like the 2 and

365
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,560
especially with my music page 2,
I want people to be able to see

366
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,240
like the different sides of me,
the side songwriting and like

367
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,120
just my personality and all of
that.

368
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,640
But yeah, so just I've got 22
separate ones just to one for

369
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,280
just like a little bit more for
fun stuff and then one for music

370
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,600
just in case like more post more
music stuff on there.

371
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,520
But.
Gotcha.

372
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,600
I I find TikTok fascinating.
So part of my like, quote UN

373
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,040
quote normal job is teaching
social media marketing.

374
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,080
And I love how like anybody can
go viral on TikTok at any time.

375
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,800
And it's kind of pushed the
other platforms in that

376
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,960
direction of like, it's all
about the content and it doesn't

377
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,120
matter if you have 10 followers
or 10 million followers, it's

378
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:26,600
going to be how long did someone
watch and did they engage?

379
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,680
With it.
And something like yours, like

380
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,480
it checked all the boxes, right?
Like, like you, it had a very

381
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,240
catchy first few seconds.
Like it was very creatively

382
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:38,880
done.
Obviously your voice is

383
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,760
beautiful.
Like there's all these things

384
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,920
that came together.
And it's like, yeah, when you

385
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,280
get done with that video, it's
like, OK, this is going to be a

386
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,320
banger.
And it's weird because like, not

387
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,800
that long ago, you know?
Do you think 8 years ago on

388
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,600
Instagram, like you put that
video together and it goes on IG

389
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,920
and you're like 75 people are
going to see this.

390
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,160
Yeah, just going to be the way
it is.

391
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,120
And I love that it's changed the
game because like, although

392
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,360
there are people especially like
the old heads in the music

393
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,080
industry that kind of like put a
lot of value in.

394
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:15,760
There is a lot of value.
Don't let me take away from it,

395
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,760
But the value of like that war
of attrition on the road and

396
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,360
like building your brand,
traveling in a van and sleeping

397
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:23,600
in the ditch and all this stuff,
right?

398
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,160
There's a lot of people that put
a lot of emphasis on that.

399
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,960
And social media has completely
changed that.

400
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,680
So changed.
I mean, look at what happened to

401
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,920
like somebody like Zach Bryan.
You know, that's unbelievable.

402
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,040
That trajectory of life never
would have happened 15 years

403
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,120
ago.
But I think it's a positive in a

404
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:44,040
lot of ways.
It gives somebody an outlet to

405
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,640
do what you did and say, OK, I'm
kind of interested in this

406
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,560
again, let me see what I can
make happen.

407
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:55,200
And that now you started this
snowball that you can decide to

408
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,800
keep pushing if you want.
Right, right.

409
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,200
And that's where I've just tried
to like both, like do the

410
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,880
Midwest funny thing, but also be
like, hey guys, I make music

411
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,400
too.
So I've tried to go both routes.

412
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,000
So I don't put myself like in
this box because don't get me

413
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,080
wrong, I enjoy it too.
I think it's funny.

414
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,440
And I just want to make sure
people know like, hey, there's

415
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,080
two sides of this too, you know?
But like you said with the

416
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,000
social media and musician thing,
Elizabeth Nichols was also, I

417
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,320
don't know if you know her, but
she was also kind of a story, I

418
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,720
would say like Zach Bryan where
she was posting her songs like

419
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:30,800
me.
And then all of a sudden it just

420
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,280
took one and then people really
loved it.

421
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,720
And I feel like she got this
following and got signed and all

422
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,400
these things like just move so
fast for her because of this

423
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,000
one.
And it's a great song, super

424
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,440
catchy, super cute, but it's
just it's totally changed the

425
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,120
trajectory.
Like you said, like, you don't

426
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:53,000
have to like drive all over and
like to, you know, to play all

427
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,640
over when you can just like film
a video And suddenly if the

428
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,320
TikTok algorithm blesses you, it
goes everywhere, you know?

429
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,560
And if people really like it,
they'll engage and be like, yes,

430
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,160
we want more of this, you know?
So yeah, it really just, it

431
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,200
changed the game completely
because I always thought like,

432
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,920
oh, I'm going to have to move to
Nashville.

433
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,440
I'm going to have to do these
things.

434
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,480
And like, as much as I would
love to go and like, live there

435
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,240
and hopefully that's like in the
cards someday when something's

436
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,920
pulling me there.
I feel like Wisconsin needs

437
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,560
something like this right now,
like a just a musician from

438
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,320
Wisconsin that's like super
recognizable.

439
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:32,680
And so I was like, I think I'm
going to stay.

440
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,640
I think I really want to stay
one because I love my family and

441
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,560
friends and I literally can't
fathom being that far away from

442
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,760
them.
But two, just because like the

443
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,920
connections I've made with
TikTok, two, I've got like

444
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,840
people in Milwaukee, Maddie Joe
and Bootjack Rd. who I've been

445
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,440
talking to were two, very Maddie
Joe is like she's another

446
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,280
country artist in Wisconsin who
she doesn't have any original

447
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,280
music yet, but she does like
cover stuff too.

448
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,640
So we've been chatting.
She's super nice.

449
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,920
Bootjack Rd. is a cover band
that I like hopped up with at

450
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,880
Whiskey Jacks and Red Rock in
Madison and they found me

451
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,200
through TikTok.
So it's just like, there are so

452
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,000
many talented musicians in
Wisconsin, and I was just like,

453
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,120
I got to stay.
So I'm excited to stay.

454
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,160
Yeah, the arts culture runs so
deep here, and I think there's

455
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,920
probably a strategic advantage
to it, actually, because it's

456
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,320
not so saturated.
Right, that too.

457
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,640
If you take advantage of the
things in front of you that you

458
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,640
can do, like it's not so
saturated where it's going to

459
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,800
get lost in the abyss.
It's amazing scrolling through

460
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,920
TikTok and seeing the people on.
I get the TikTok live musicians

461
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,400
a lot just sitting there playing
their songs.

462
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,080
And it's crazy to me that you
can scroll through and you just

463
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,400
see like, wow talent, wow
talent, wow talent.

464
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,400
And then like you think about
that concept and that's online,

465
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,360
digital, but like pretty much
pick that up and put it into a

466
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:04,440
city.
And that's what you're facing in

467
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,960
Nashville.
Like you go there and everybody

468
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,280
can do everything.
Like you asked if I'd ever been

469
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,400
there the first time I went to
Nashville, I like I came across

470
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,320
this super interesting band
playing on the street like not

471
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,600
at not in a place just like
corner street corner busking.

472
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,280
And I'm like, Dang, y'all are
pretty good.

473
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,720
And that was my first
experience.

474
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,360
It was literally the day I got
there.

475
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,320
I was walking down my first Rd.
saw this and I'm like, OK, this

476
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,640
is pretty tight.
And I ended up having a cool

477
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,880
trip where I got to know the
culture of the city and

478
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,960
everything.
And then it was, I can't

479
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,280
remember the time frame two
years later, three years later

480
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,120
or something like that.
I'm just scrolling through

481
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:46,360
YouTube and I find, I find this
video by the Lost Dog St. band

482
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:47,760
with this dude named Benjamin
Todd.

483
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,120
And I'm like, that's the folks
that were sitting there playing

484
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:54,920
on the sidewalk when I was there
three years ago.

485
00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:00,360
And now they have like a, you
know, music out.

486
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:02,160
And they probably did at that
time too.

487
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,880
Like, I don't know where their
career was in that pace, in that

488
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,640
path, but like, they were
playing on the street corner

489
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,800
when I got out the car.
There's music everywhere down

490
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,440
there and like you said,
everybody can do everything.

491
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,600
And it just that that was
something that really fascinated

492
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,040
me, too, is just like, I don't
you might not even know who

493
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,480
you're playing with that day.
And like that at the beginning

494
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,200
of my career with this whole
thing would have terrified me.

495
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,800
Like, what do you mean we didn't
practice?

496
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,480
What do you mean we didn't go
over what we're going to do?

497
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,920
Like, people just show up and
walk on and here we go.

498
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,120
The show must go on.
Fishing in the dark.

499
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,000
Here we go.
So it's just it's everywhere.

500
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:43,440
Yeah.
Like you said, they can just,

501
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,000
like, you see them once and then
they pop up and you're like, oh,

502
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,600
they're kind of like making it.
Yeah.

503
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,240
Yeah, yeah.
He ended up being a huge star.

504
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,920
The I think the band I broke up.
I think it was like a

505
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,480
relationship thing.
I'm not really sure.

506
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,720
But regardless, like playing on
the street.

507
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,120
Three years later I see him on
YouTube.

508
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,760
It's funny that along the lines
of that story, I have a friend

509
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,920
here in Green Bay who's a
musician too, and his band was

510
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,160
playing a show at my own music
down by Appleton and I was going

511
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,200
to catch a show.
I was there to see an actually

512
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,440
another band that had been on
the podcast called Art Fishing

513
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,840
Club and I knew Maddie's band
was playing too.

514
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,560
So I went, I went stop through
there earlier and like their

515
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,520
show's starting in 5 minutes.
I'm walking up to the venue and

516
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,240
he comes peeling in in his car
and he's like he's got his

517
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,880
guitar and he hops out of the
car is like, dude, it's the five

518
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,280
minutes before your show.
It's like things happen.

519
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,560
It just ran pretty much directly
got on stage and just started

520
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,440
ripping.
It's funny.

521
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,760
But I mean, that probably comes
with comfort, right?

522
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,680
It's like anything else.
I'm more of the very type A

523
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,200
type.
We will be there like an hour,

524
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,840
hour and a half, two hours
before.

525
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,640
Make sure everything works, make
sure everything is fine.

526
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,920
Like I, like, I know a lot of
people can just get up and go.

527
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,720
I'm like, no, we are gonna take
our time.

528
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,040
And like I like to have a drink
before and like I'm just so type

529
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,440
A when it comes to that because
I just want the show to go as

530
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,280
well as it possibly can.
Yeah, but yeah.

531
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,120
Yeah, and luckily he had the
rest of his band members there

532
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:09,920
who I'm sure did the whole sound
check and everything.

533
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:10,440
It's true.
And they're.

534
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,560
Just like all right, come.
On Yeah, Come on, get.

535
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,120
Up here.
So then so the TikTok goes viral

536
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,400
and then you probably start have
to navigating this other weird

537
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,480
journey too of like it seems
like you have a deal with

538
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,400
QuikTrip now and and like.
Ambassador.

539
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,840
Now, yeah, going through like
contractual things and stuff,

540
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,640
yeah, that had to be a wave of
like learning, right?

541
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,480
Oh yes, yes, and.
Probably still is.

542
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,640
Oh my God, this is my first
contract.

543
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,760
Hopefully first of like, many.
But yeah, I'm, I'm excited to

544
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,800
work with them.
And it's just so Mariah coded.

545
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,720
It's not even like I got this at
QuikTrip on the way here today.

546
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,360
So it's just I'm there all the
time.

547
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,680
They're like a great gas
station.

548
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,120
Not even to just like hype them
up, but seriously, like the

549
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,760
cleanest gas station ever.
And just all of their food, all

550
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,120
of their things are all so good.
And like, I just, I love that

551
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,640
it's clean.
I think that's the biggest thing

552
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,040
is like the cleanliness of like
how they keep it because like,

553
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,040
sometimes you walk into a gas
station and be like, what

554
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,560
happened in here?
Literally what happened in here.

555
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,400
But yeah, I'm proud to be a
brand ambassador now.

556
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,920
Nice.
We're excited to work with them.

557
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Well, that's, you know, these
things they start get thrown at

558
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,720
you right with with virality
because like opportunities doors

559
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,800
open that hadn't been opened
previously and you have to try

560
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:33,880
to navigate that.
Now.

561
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,440
How is that like complemented or
contrasted with your career,

562
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,800
your regular job like it has
like, where are you in that

563
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,280
process of like?
Because I've seen a couple

564
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,440
videos of you talking about your
regular job too and it seems

565
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,080
like you'd love that too and
doing what you do.

566
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,760
So radiation therapy and just
for anybody who doesn't know, I

567
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,880
treat cancer patients with
high-powered X-rays.

568
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,080
And so usually in the healthcare
world, that would be like a full

569
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,600
time or a point 8.6.
I'm hired on as like a PRN, so

570
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,320
like as needed.
So I've been super, super lucky

571
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,480
at the place that I work at to
be able to work with them on a

572
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,560
schedule to be able to do both.
And like you don't always get

573
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,280
that.
And so I'm just like, so blessed

574
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,280
to be able to do both and to
talk to my patients and be like,

575
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000
hey, I got a gig this weekend.
Like we'll talk about that.

576
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,320
And they they eat that they love
it and just being a hand in

577
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,520
their journey too.
It's always it, like you said,

578
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,120
kind of contrast because like
I've walked in on a Monday

579
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,760
having like the best weekend,
just released a new song.

580
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,000
And then I'm always humbled,
right, that our days are

581
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,280
numbered.
So it keeps me grounded for

582
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,040
sure.
And it's bittersweet.

583
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,120
Yeah, has to come with a lot of
heaviness.

584
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,240
It does.
It's like I said, just very

585
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,960
bittersweet because I get to
watch people like finish and

586
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,880
that's awesome.
But for some people that journey

587
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,520
like isn't over yet.
But just to know that like, you

588
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,360
know, they may not remember my
name, but like how I made them

589
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,680
feel.
I actually had a patient comment

590
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,760
on one of my Tik Toks and be
like, you treated me two years

591
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,840
ago, but I remember you and I
remember you behind the mask and

592
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,320
like this, he was like, I had
some really bad days, but you

593
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,560
were always smiling.
I could tell like by your eyes,

594
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,680
even with the mask and like, I
just want to say thank you.

595
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,640
And I just was like, Oh, the
Lord works in mysterious ways of

596
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,600
like just having us cross paths
again and just seeing that I was

597
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,880
like, I'm doing the right thing.
You know, I just, I'm so blessed

598
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,080
to be able to, to do both.
Yeah, that's so.

599
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,240
How did you decide on that?
How did you decide on that path?

600
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,240
Really it was.
I knew I wanted to work in

601
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,880
cancer care, but I knew I was
like nursing blood.

602
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,120
That's not going to be a thing
from where I'm going to tip

603
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,480
over.
Have to draw.

604
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,040
Anybodies blood and so I knew I
wanted to work in cancer care

605
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,080
and so.
Did you have like personal

606
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,360
experience with it or something
that?

607
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,200
No, like I had family members
who unfortunately like had had

608
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,880
cancer before, but like they
none of them ever had gone

609
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,160
through like radiation.
It was just kind of something

610
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,720
that like I stumbled into upon
looking into, you know, cancer

611
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,200
jobs and stuff.
And then lacrosse came up and so

612
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,640
I saw like a program there and I
was like, I kind of observed,

613
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,520
you know, what the job was and
things like that.

614
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,440
And luckily went through my Gen.
eds, applied and luckily got in

615
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,840
and everything.
But there isn't really like a

616
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,680
story of like, I knew I had to
do this.

617
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,200
It was more of like, I just, I
wanted to work in cancer care

618
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,640
and happened to stumble upon
that.

619
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,320
And thankfully I loved it.
So that was good with that,

620
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:49,960
yeah.
That's a path for a lot.

621
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,240
My weaving path was similar.
I I was told that I was good at

622
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,760
math and science, so I should be
an engineer and I sat in the

623
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,440
first couple classes and I was
like, this is terrible.

624
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,160
Where did?
You go to school.

625
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,920
That was at UWM actually.
I almost went to lacrosse, but

626
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,880
UW, UW, MI love it.
UWM gave me an academic

627
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,440
scholarship that I ended up
pissing out the window anyway,

628
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,120
so it didn't really matter.
But I guess my my free year of

629
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,760
exploring the social aspect of
college came to me significantly

630
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,560
cheaper than it comes to a lot
of other folks in realizing that

631
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,240
I didn't want to be an engineer
and.

632
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,160
But I, I guess to tie that back
in, like through that

633
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,760
realization was one of the first
times I ever like reflected on

634
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,160
my life.
And I think that happens to a

635
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,880
lot of people where it's like
you dive into this thing that

636
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680
you feel like you're going to
like, but you don't really know.

637
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,000
And then at that point I was
just like, OK, marketing seems

638
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,920
like a better fit.
Let me try this.

639
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,560
And I actually did it from a
place of reflection as opposed

640
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,240
to a place of like, what would
you call it?

641
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,160
Not so much ego, but like people
just like telling you you're

642
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,480
good at something.
So that would mean something

643
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,680
else.
And it like, sure, just because

644
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,560
I got good grades in math and
science never meant that I like

645
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,719
doing it when when I actually
reflected on myself, I look back

646
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,480
and I was like, no wonder I
didn't like this.

647
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,000
Like I don't there are aspects
of science that I love.

648
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,960
Those aren't the ones that
connect to mechanical

649
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,360
engineering.
And it was like fruitless

650
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,840
because there's no way I was
ever, even if I would have

651
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,080
persisted and got that degree
and become, I would have had

652
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,880
like 40 years of misery in front
of me.

653
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,320
And I can't stare down that
pipe.

654
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,159
I'm not one that can like do
that.

655
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,960
So I finally did some
reflection, tried out marketing

656
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,360
and then it ended up being a
place that fit me.

657
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,199
You know, there's so much value
in that.

658
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:46,560
And not just career wise, but
life wise.

659
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,560
Like thinking about like, you
know, you reflect picking up the

660
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,159
guitar again and being like, you
know, OK, I just had this

661
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,120
experience that moved me.
Maybe I can move others.

662
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,200
That's super important to
constantly reflect.

663
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,160
Is that something you'd say has
always come natural for you?

664
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,640
Did it?
Did you get lucky in this

665
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,080
instance?
What's your typical like way

666
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,920
around navigating what you enjoy
and what you want to chase?

667
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,720
I would say like picking up the
guitar again was just, I just

668
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:22,600
really love like writing songs
and I didn't realize it until it

669
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,560
just kind of like happened, you
know?

670
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:32,200
And like I try not to overdo it,
you know, just like to the point

671
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,360
where like this is a job, you
know, like I still want to like

672
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,960
be able to like write a song and
not feel like pressured to do it

673
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,960
'cause I feel like if I feel
pressured to write a song, this

674
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,520
is going to be an awful song,
you know, So I try to navigate

675
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,440
that in the best way that I can.
I'm just like, you know, never

676
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,360
pressuring myself to be like,
you have to write a song today.

677
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,880
That's what you're going to do
or you have to post this TikTok.

678
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,200
Don't like there's time.
There's so much time.

679
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,120
And I want to go back to what
you were saying about the career

680
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,360
thing.
I think it's so crazy to think

681
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,560
that anyone knows what they want
to do at the age of 18.

682
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,200
That's so young.
My parents still tell me.

683
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,160
I still don't know what I want
to be when I grow up, Mariah.

684
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,240
You know, it's like, yeah, I get
that.

685
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:17,880
How are how are you supposed to
know?

686
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,320
And then people are like, oh,
well, this makes really good

687
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,000
money.
This is going to like get you

688
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,720
da, da, da, da.
And it's like, what is it about

689
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:27,800
the money, though?
It never is.

690
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,120
Like, sure, it's nice to have
and like, you got to keep the

691
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:35,000
lights on, right?
But it's about if you're happy

692
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,520
and like, do you enjoy this or
do you hate going to the office

693
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,360
from 9:00 to 5:00 every day?
You know, it's but how is

694
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,840
anybody supposed to know?
But that's the beauty of like

695
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,080
life and being able to make
decisions.

696
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,040
Like when, because I was full
time at first with radiation

697
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,080
therapy and then the part time
stumbled about and I was like, I

698
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,760
feel like I should take this
part time.

699
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,760
And from doing that, I just feel
like there's been such a greater

700
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,560
life balance working like a
little less and then being able

701
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,160
to do half and half versus
working 40 hours a week and then

702
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,240
driving to all these gigs and
like kind of exhausting myself a

703
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,560
little bit and then driving all
the way back to Madison because

704
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,800
most of my gigs back then we're
back home.

705
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,880
So it's like being able to have
that life balance and like truly

706
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,760
love, love, love what you're
doing, you know, but it's, it's

707
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,160
a journey to find it.
Sure.

708
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,440
And like you said, finding it in
that self reflection, I feel

709
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,560
like is also really important
for sure.

710
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,840
Well, yeah.
How's anybody supposed to know

711
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,520
at 18?
You're so young you don't even

712
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,960
know yourself yet, you know so.
Right.

713
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,480
And we ask them to do it without
ever experiencing it.

714
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,840
Yes, which is just the wildest
thing when you really think

715
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,640
about it.
Yep.

716
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,640
Like, sure, you might have taken
some classes in different areas,

717
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,000
but we ask him to do it without
like ever following somebody who

718
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,160
does it around for a day, right?
And just seeing what they

719
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,320
actually do, it's crazy.
I was a career advisor for three

720
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,240
years and I had so many of these
conversations about like, OK,

721
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,600
here's what this goofy
assessment says that you enjoy.

722
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,320
Now you tell me what you enjoy.
And I would ask the most off the

723
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,360
wall questions.
One of my favorite ones would be

724
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,120
if you could have dinner with
anybody, alive or dead, pick

725
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,520
three people and tell me, and I
could tell someone more about

726
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,440
what areas they would find
satisfaction and working from

727
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,280
that question.
Then I could about like, tell

728
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,720
me.
What was your favorite course

729
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:28,400
subject in the school?
Like these exploratory questions

730
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,800
can get there, but people need
help coming to that realization

731
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,920
because it's not natural to
think that way.

732
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,040
It's fascinating.
There was something else in

733
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,720
there that you just said that I
was going to jump onto too, but

734
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:43,720
it for like a little bird flew
right out of my brain.

735
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:45,120
That's.
Usually what happens to me, I

736
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,520
know I'm like, there's so many
things that are going through

737
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,760
your brain at once, it's hard to
like.

738
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:55,200
Yeah, but you're exactly right.
I think it's absolutely crazy

739
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,000
that we ask people to choose
what they want to do, you know,

740
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:04,240
and in in a lot of cases invests
several 10s of thousands of

741
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:06,800
dollars to do it.
Exactly.

742
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,960
I actually had a previous guest
on the podcast.

743
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:11,960
She was she was in the
healthcare field too.

744
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,160
I think she was a nurse
practitioner if I remember right

745
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,920
And left to now, she wrote an
opera like a rock Popra.

746
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,600
She actually calls it, it's
called and it's called Blood

747
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,560
Love.
And she recently like moved out

748
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,840
to New York and is doing this
thing.

749
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,280
And similarly, like she went
through kind of like she, I

750
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,280
think COVID burned her out of
the healthcare field, which a

751
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,680
lot of people did.
Like that was some crazy stuff.

752
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,920
And she had always had this
passion of singing and, and, you

753
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,920
know, kind of like the Broadway
type thing and decided to chase

754
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,000
it, you know, after a successful
career in a in a space.

755
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,840
And I don't know, there's a
there's got to be a better way

756
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,920
that we can like build a path
for folks.

757
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,680
Like you hear about other
countries that do this.

758
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,040
Obviously easier on a far
smaller scale than 300 million

759
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:05,560
or however many people live in
the US.

760
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,320
It's a lot.
But it's a lot, yeah.

761
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:14,480
But like of, I guess what I
would relate it to is kind of

762
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,720
like the Montessori schools
concept, but then on steroids,

763
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,960
where you get to actually
experience the things that you

764
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,240
try before you do it.
Because like, hypothetically,

765
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,400
flip, flip this coin a little
bit.

766
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,320
Get to someone who has always
wanted to be a musician.

767
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,680
That's like their goal.
They want to do it and then the

768
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,800
first day they step on stage and
didn't do a show, they're like,

769
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,200
oh God, that was nerve wracking.
I don't want this feeling my

770
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,120
whole life.
Now what like little chunks of

771
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,640
experience can help us make
valid and like best for us

772
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,520
decisions?
And how do we, how do we help

773
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,800
people navigate that path
better?

774
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,360
Because we don't right now, I
don't think.

775
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,920
No, I know, and I feel like
traveling too and just like

776
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,840
seeing how other parts of the
world are and like their

777
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:01,880
cultures and just like immersing
yourself in that.

778
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,800
I feel like it's really
important to to be like a

779
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,360
well-rounded, just seeing how
other people work, you know.

780
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,880
So I always am like so jealous
of the people who like take like

781
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,920
a year or something off to like
go travel and stuff Like that's

782
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,280
awesome.
Yeah, I do that.

783
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,800
But because I've never been, I
don't know if have you been to

784
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,880
Europe or anywhere.
I don't even have a passport.

785
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,520
I've never been out of the
country.

786
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,400
I've done a lot of domestic
travel, but yeah, I've never

787
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,520
traveled out of the country.
I'm excited too.

788
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,840
That'll definitely come,
especially now I have a four

789
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,560
year old.
So I want to, as he develops and

790
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,640
grows like I completely agree
with you and I want to make sure

791
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,920
that I expose him to as many
different things as I can.

792
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,040
So it's going to come.
But no, never traveled out of

793
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,920
the country.
Yeah, I've only been to it was

794
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,360
Jamaica and Costa Rica, both
beautiful, beautiful countries.

795
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,480
But I've always wanted to go to
Europe, you know, see things

796
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,320
over there.
And I've had a few friends who

797
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,240
have, like studied abroad and
done all of that and like, they

798
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:02,080
have nothing but great things to
say.

799
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,400
And so it's definitely on my
list of things to do.

800
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,720
So hopefully tour takes me there
someday.

801
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,920
Yeah, we'll see.
Yeah, absolutely.

802
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:10,840
Yeah, yeah.
What?

803
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,360
What is that stuff?
Like what are those other areas

804
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,960
of life that keep you ticking
other than working music?

805
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,640
Like what are those areas of
exposure that you lean into when

806
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,920
you need some decompressed time
or you want to recharge your

807
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,240
batteries?
Like what's that stuff?

808
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,280
Honestly, I'm still learning how
to do that.

809
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:33,520
I feel like the best way for me
to decompress is just like be

810
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,200
like turn off the phone because
it's really easy to be like, how

811
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,000
many notifications are we
getting today?

812
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,440
It's like, you know, like what's
the feedback today?

813
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,320
Hopefully it's all good, You
know, finding validation in that

814
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,520
I need like, I like just leave
my phone and just really try to

815
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,040
be as like present as I can with
friends or family or doing some

816
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,640
sort of activity, whether it's
like bowling or one time we

817
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,400
literally went laser tagging and
like that was just so fun

818
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,840
because it was like away from
the phone.

819
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,040
And just like with people that
like I really care about and

820
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,000
they really care about me, but
I'm, it's, I have a really hard

821
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,400
time shutting off that part of
my brain and just being like,

822
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:15,600
you're not doing enough And it's
just, it's a learning process.

823
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:21,680
I try not to be hard on myself,
but it's really hard to not look

824
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,760
at other people and be like,
well, look how far they are.

825
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,520
Like, how can I you got to keep
posting and doing and here we

826
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,800
go, you know, like you want to
keep that traction, right?

827
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,800
So like keep posting, but like
that can be exhausting too.

828
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,640
And then that's not fun.
You know, like I said, it kind

829
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,000
of makes it more of a job.
And then it's like I was doing

830
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,080
this for fun and just sharing my
songs and now I have to, for

831
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:46,320
these people, you know who
people who love me, I love them

832
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:47,960
too.
But it's like I got to put

833
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,480
myself 1st and try to turn it
off.

834
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,240
So I'm still still learning, but
it's just being with friends and

835
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:55,400
family and and the dogs and the
cat.

836
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,200
Just some good animal therapy is
always good so.

837
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,720
Nice.
Yeah, Yeah.

838
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,240
It's funny, we just had a
conversation about this with the

839
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:08,120
previous guest about like Envy
being a thief of joy and really

840
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,840
not only being a thief of joy,
which is a pretty like that

841
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,440
actually didn't come up in that
conversation.

842
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,000
That's just something I think of
frequently of envy being a thief

843
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,360
of joy and like taking away from
the process.

844
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,080
But secondarily, a lot of times
when you act on that, when you

845
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,760
act on that feeling, it doesn't
work.

846
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,240
Like you can't for the most part
force things in life.

847
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,600
Like you can get it to a certain
place, but then it's like, OK,

848
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,600
you're you're the hill is way
taller than you're going to be

849
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,920
able to push this big old rock
and you literally can't force it

850
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,880
to happen.
So you have to drop the rock and

851
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,920
just walk around the hill and
see what's around the next

852
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,240
corner.
And I don't know, I've, I've

853
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,520
really driven person.
I've struggled with that in my

854
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,240
life too.
Like you have these aspirations

855
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,000
and goals that are at the end of
this tunnel.

856
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:09,480
And for me, it's, it's never
really been about like the, the

857
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,160
envy side of it.
Like it was weird.

858
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,160
I worked in radio for a long
time and a lot of the people

859
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,400
that I met like really got this
big like ego boost of having

860
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,720
like a microphone.
And they that's where they got

861
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:26,840
their energy from of it.
And mine was always about like

862
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,800
telling stories and like
connecting people.

863
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:35,040
Like I still to this day, like
I'm being behind a mic is kind

864
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,040
of uncomfortable.
Like I'm a really effective

865
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,680
public speaker, but it's it's
very uncomfortable.

866
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,480
But what gives me satisfaction
out of it is the actual like

867
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,000
process of what it's doing in
the story told.

868
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,840
Like with the podcast, like I'm,
I'm just trying to share

869
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,040
people's stories in a positive
and effective way.

870
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,920
And that makes it not
uncomfortable for me because

871
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,800
then it matters.
But if I were to force it, like

872
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,120
I tell this to people all the
time, like I teach social media

873
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,800
marketing, I could make viral
clips that are like metric

874
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,880
driven.
But then is it going to, is it

875
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,120
going to achieve the mission
that I wanted to?

876
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,200
And is somebody going to
actually tune into an hour and a

877
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,680
half and listen to me talk with
Mariah about life and things

878
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,120
that matter like this?
And we can't force it.

879
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,560
No matter how hard you try, it
doesn't matter if it comes from

880
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,320
envy, if it comes from wanting
or needing money, like you said

881
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,120
earlier, we need to pay our
bills.

882
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,920
But life is very unforgiving in
that realm.

883
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,040
We can't force something to
happen.

884
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,360
So it's, I don't know, it's this
weird balance of like going my

885
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,160
little, my little guy's pre-K.
They always talk about going

886
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,360
with the flow.
You got to go with the flow.

887
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,760
I always call it riding the
wave, but at the same time doing

888
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,440
it with a motivated intention of
like, OK, I'm going to wake up

889
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,840
today and give it my best.
I don't know what that means

890
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,480
yet.
Like maybe it's an e-mail that

891
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,000
really matters.
Maybe it's a guest that I want

892
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,160
to do a little research on.
But like, it's a tough balance

893
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:10,800
to navigate those two things
because you see these like, you

894
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,040
know where you want to get to
and you wish it were tomorrow.

895
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,720
But at the same time, it's like,
OK, there's a path that I

896
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,240
probably have to walk that's not
even written by me.

897
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,200
Right.
That has to come alive.

898
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,560
Exactly, and there's just like
obstacles and things that you

899
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,360
have to go through and I feel
like going through like hard

900
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,280
times it, you know, it shows
like are you what are what are

901
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,040
your true intentions about your
end goal?

902
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,240
Are you doing it for the money?
Are you doing it for the fame?

903
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,280
Are you doing it just to see
your name up in big lights?

904
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,720
But just, you know, not actually
connecting with people.

905
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:46,920
You just want the fame.
It's like you got to know what

906
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,720
your intentions are with the
whole what it with whatever

907
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:53,120
you're doing, you know, is it to
make an impact on people or is

908
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,440
it simply just to like make 6
figures and like do all the

909
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,080
fancy things and have all the
fancy things and like story,

910
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,520
story, story and history over
again.

911
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,600
Money never makes anybody like
super happy.

912
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,280
Sure, it helps, but like I just
feel like you hear time and time

913
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,400
again about these celebrities
and people who you would think

914
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,400
like, gosh, they're on top of
the world.

915
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:20,760
Then they come out and like even
Ella Langley, who I love by the

916
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:27,080
way, she took a break, I want to
say last year and she I can't

917
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,320
remember how long it was, but
she seriously was having like

918
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:35,200
the year of a lifetime, like
just two amazing chart topping

919
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,440
songs.
And then she takes a step back

920
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,800
from the, I think she was on
tour with Morgan Wallen while

921
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,320
also still doing her, still
hungover headlining to her.

922
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:49,520
And it's like she needed the
time and the space, you know?

923
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,080
And like, it can, it can seem
like everybody's like doing

924
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,040
really great, but they're not,
you know, like it can seem all

925
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,880
fun once you have the fame and
the money.

926
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,280
But like sometimes like, that's
just like not the reality of it.

927
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,200
So taking a step back to like
look at the true intentions of

928
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,640
like am I doing this to create a
connection or am I doing it for

929
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,480
the wrong reasons, you know,
but.

930
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,880
And you see that in especially
in that career path in

931
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:19,280
particular, you see it affect
people's art too and the output.

932
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:24,520
So I think a great example that
actually one quick story won't

933
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,840
OK, two different paths around
1:00 just because I was reading

934
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,200
a story about this this morning.
But I think what often comes to

935
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,960
mind in this space is reality TV
and there's a prime example.

936
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,760
I can't even remember name.
I don't want really watch

937
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,320
reality TV unless it's like
alone where it's like real real.

938
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,720
But I saw this video supposedly,
I think it was like a

939
00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:48,120
Bachelorette or something.
The show got cancelled.

940
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,280
She was on the other Mormon one
or something.

941
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:51,480
This.
Is like super recent.

942
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:52,800
I saw it this morning.
They just pulled it.

943
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,680
Yeah, yeah.
But did you see the video of

944
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,640
that Lady about why they're
pulling it like behind the

945
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,520
scenes?
I'm sure like she's painting

946
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,160
this picture of herself on these
shows.

947
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,080
I've never watched them, but
this video she's like beating

948
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,520
the hell out of this man who was
her significant other.

949
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,640
And then like the most gut
wrenching thing in this video,

950
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,200
like towards the end of it, she
starts throwing chairs at this

951
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,480
dude.
And then you hear a little baby

952
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,000
crying in the room and I'm like,
Oh my God, you're just such a

953
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:27,200
shit human.
Like just chasing dollars in the

954
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:33,600
reality TV realm as opposed to
like trying to bring value to

955
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:34,680
the world.
You know what I mean?

956
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,640
So that was a little, that was a
little soapbox for me for a

957
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,880
second, just cuz I, I, I
couldn't stop thinking about it

958
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,600
when I was hearing you talk
about doing it for a reason

959
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,880
compared to the dollars and
cents.

960
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,440
And I think reality TV
encompasses that well.

961
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,040
But back to my main point of the
music thing.

962
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:56,160
There was a time like when I was
a pretty big like in early in

963
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,320
his career.
I liked Luke Bryan's music.

964
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,320
I like, I like, enjoyed it, you
know, And then it got towards

965
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,280
the end and it was like, Oh my
goodness, like he's got this

966
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,960
whole and I get it, you know,
like nothing to take away from

967
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,280
the guy because make your paper
Boo Boo, you know, like there's

968
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,320
money to be had.
Go out and make that money.

969
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,360
But like, there were some songs
at the beginning that like hit

970
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,160
different than like country
girl, Shake it for me, you know,

971
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,200
like there's songs that are are
different.

972
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,680
And then I always find myself
drawn back to the Childers and

973
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,680
the isbals and the people that
constantly pour their heart out.

974
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,560
Like in the middle of COVID,
Tyler made a whole album just to

975
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,520
voice his opinion on a social
issue.

976
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,320
And I was like, and that was at
the point where it was an

977
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,280
inflection point in his career.
He was either going to be the

978
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,000
next huge thing or who knew what
was going to happen.

979
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,720
And he wrote like a 10 track
instrumental one that had words

980
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:55,800
and it was about a social issue.
And I remember thinking at that

981
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,680
moment like, OK, like this dude
is doesn't care.

982
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,480
You know, it is a true art form
for them.

983
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,360
It is.
And I don't know, I'm sure

984
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,600
that's such a tough decision to
make because like, I can't even

985
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,840
fathom putting my like, say I
had a big sponsor come to the

986
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,200
podcast, but one of the main
themes, so my sponsor now is a

987
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,440
non alcoholic beverage.
One of my main themes is I, I

988
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,680
really believe in the benefits
of limiting alcohol in people's

989
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,520
lives.
And, and I can't throw rocks

990
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,800
from my glass house because I
lived it growing up like a part

991
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:37,680
of like crazy.
Grew up in Wisconsin.

992
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:43,040
Like did all the things.
But say a sponsor came to me and

993
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,280
it was an alcoholic beverage and
they're like, I'm going to give

994
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:49,840
you $5,000,000 to sponsor this
podcast like.

995
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,360
Morally would you do?
It I can't imagine having to

996
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,560
make that decision.
Life changing money versus

997
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,560
selling out, for lack of a
better term.

998
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,920
And just like, get in the bag,
you know, I can't imagine trying

999
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,320
to make it so I can't disparage
anybody for doing it, you know

1000
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,400
what I mean?
It's a it's a really hard

1001
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,280
decision, but I feel like, I
don't know, I feel like I'm such

1002
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,960
a lead with your heart.
If it's a bad gut feeling, run

1003
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,120
with it, you know, but it's it's
a hard decision for sure.

1004
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,840
But back to what you were saying
about like the NA, I love that

1005
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,360
you're sponsored by NA by the
way, I'm not NAI still do have

1006
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,680
my beverages here and there,
maybe some glasses of wine maybe

1007
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,320
during the week.
But I find that especially like

1008
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:40,520
in the music scene, it's like I
feel like I have like one or two

1009
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,880
like during the show and then
I'm good and like I don't crave

1010
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,920
as much like going out and like
getting hammered and then

1011
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,040
feeling awful the next day.
And like maybe that's rare or

1012
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,520
crazy for a 24 year old, but I
just, I don't know, the Sunday

1013
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,920
scary's are so scary.
I feel like I if you know what I

1014
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,920
mean, it's just like when you
feel terrible, you can't do

1015
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,880
anything.
And like, I just love that like

1016
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,920
music has kind of pushed me away
from that a little bit.

1017
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,440
And I know that can go the
opposite way for some people

1018
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,200
too.
Like sometimes they go like too

1019
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,200
far into it.
But I feel like for me it's been

1020
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,920
a good step back from like super
party all the time because

1021
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,360
alcohol can, you know, you make
some bad decisions and it's not

1022
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,880
always a great, great thing.
But I just want to say that I

1023
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,760
love that you're sponsored by
any SO.

1024
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,640
Yeah, I love I and you said
maybe not, maybe not the norm

1025
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,400
for a 24 year old.
I love that the generational

1026
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,480
shift that's happening because I
see a bunch of people your age

1027
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,320
becoming a bit more cognizant
about the negative side of

1028
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,720
alcohol because there there is
positive sides too.

1029
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,120
If I would have been like if I
would have quit drinking before

1030
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,280
I went to college, which is
weird to say, right?

1031
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,600
Like if you go to college at 18,
we are in Wisconsin.

1032
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,960
If I would have quit drinking
before then I wouldn't have some

1033
00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,760
of my best friends in the world
because I met them with that as

1034
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,160
a vehicle.
And I'm like, I'm very careful

1035
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:09,120
in my life to never be the pass
the judgement, you know, if I'm

1036
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,920
not in that place.
But I love seeing your

1037
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,360
generation be more cognizant and
aware and more in control of the

1038
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,880
decisions they make because that
that was not my experience as a

1039
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,320
24 year old or an 18 year old.
It was like, this is what

1040
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,400
everybody does.
And especially in like, I grew

1041
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,400
up in small town Wisconsin.
So that's all there is to do,

1042
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,000
yes, you know.
It's everywhere, like your

1043
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,160
buddies on a Monday saying like,
hey, you wanna come over for

1044
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,160
beer or whatever.
And it's like, did I need that?

1045
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,800
Did I need that on a Monday?
And, you know, but it's like, I

1046
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,320
like, don't get me wrong, every
blue moon I'm like, let's go out

1047
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,840
and let's, you know, don't get
me wrong, I still have that.

1048
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,440
But I do feel like in college it
was just like, it was a lot and

1049
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,760
like got out of my system.
And now it's just like, wow, I

1050
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,200
don't even know how that, you
know, I could never like

1051
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:06,200
October.
Have you ever been to

1052
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:07,000
Oktoberfest?
Not.

1053
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,640
On the cross, No.
Oh my God, crazy.

1054
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:16,040
Literally just like drinking all
day long from sun up to sundown.

1055
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,800
And like I just couldn't imagine
doing that now.

1056
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,200
But I feel like in college, like
it's what it is what you do, you

1057
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,080
know, you're having fun, like
you said, you meet you meet

1058
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,760
people.
And I still have people from

1059
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,440
college too that I partied with
that are that are going to be

1060
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,000
lifetime friends, you know, so
I'm, I'm thankful and like I

1061
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,320
don't judge anyone or judge
myself for like drinking that

1062
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,160
much in college, just what you
do.

1063
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:41,360
But it's just like now I'm just
more like, I'm thankful that I'm

1064
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:45,640
not, you know, just like always,
like out.

1065
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,040
And because it just makes me
feel unwell personally.

1066
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,800
And I don't judge anybody for
going on the weekends.

1067
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,040
Like, hell yeah, have your fun.
Love that for you.

1068
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:52,920
I hope I'm on.
Come to.

1069
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:54,280
The show when you do.
Exactly.

1070
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,760
I hope I'm up on the stage when
you're out drinking your drinks

1071
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,040
and shaking your ass out there.
I hope you are and I hope I'm

1072
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,880
there, but it's just for me,
those Sunday scary's are just

1073
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,720
like never, ever worth it.
So it's just very anxiety for

1074
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:10,960
volcanes, like where are, say,
what did I do?

1075
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,200
And it's like, I don't want
that.

1076
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,080
I don't want to not remember
that.

1077
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,560
So, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the anxiety that comes

1078
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,760
post to it was never
comfortable, never.

1079
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,760
No, especially, you know like in
that scenario I was a person who

1080
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,560
I would I would drink a copious
amount and then I would be able

1081
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,200
to still function.
So I would have hours of just

1082
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,120
not remembering life.
Yeah.

1083
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,640
And there's no way not to get
anxiety about that.

1084
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,960
Like, there's so many hours of
my life that I have no idea what

1085
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,280
I did.
And that's a really

1086
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,960
uncomfortable feeling.
It is.

1087
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,400
It's like, why don't?
That's not cool.

1088
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:49,760
You know that I don't remember.
That Who the hell was driving

1089
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,800
the bus like it wasn't me?
You're right, like lights on but

1090
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,360
literally nobody's home.
Seriously.

1091
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:56,960
So scary.
So scary.

1092
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,040
And like in your field, some of
the saddest, like melancholy

1093
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,840
things you'll see are like the
musicians who like went too far

1094
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:06,280
and then they have to try to
perform.

1095
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,640
And you know, what's somebody
that's so talented, right?

1096
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,120
But it's like you can see that
they're in a bad spot and it's

1097
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,160
almost masking.
So it's almost always masking

1098
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:16,600
something else.
Something else exactly.

1099
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:21,440
Trauma, you know, burdens,
whatever, all the bad things

1100
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,960
that come with life.
And that's where it's the

1101
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,120
problem, you know, like on the
positive side, everything's

1102
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,320
great, dude drinks and friends
like this is awesome.

1103
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,760
And then the switch flips.
You know, it's, it's fascinating

1104
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,000
to talk about, but it's really
fascinating in the music

1105
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:42,720
industry because there's a,
there's a certain connection

1106
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:52,640
between the lifestyle and almost
like the trajectories of a lot

1107
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,840
of musicians where it's like,
OK, I went through this

1108
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:01,320
tumultuous bad period where I
was doing all of these things

1109
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:08,360
and then so many of them have
become sober and then continued

1110
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:13,840
on in a parallel but different
way.

1111
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:15,920
It's hard to explain.
I don't even know really what

1112
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,880
I'm getting at, but it's, it's
definitely, you know, you get

1113
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,040
what I'm saying though, Like
it's in your industry.

1114
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,800
It's a thing.
It is, and I feel like I don't

1115
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,600
know if you saw this, but Ashley
McBride, actually.

1116
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:31,720
I love Ashley McBride.
She just took a huge step, I

1117
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:35,720
feel like in because obviously
Nashville, drinking bars, music.

1118
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,840
She opened an NA bar down there
which I'm like blank, no.

1119
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,000
Way did she really?
She did, she did, and I'm

1120
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,960
blanking on the name right now.
I want to say it's like, I want

1121
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,520
to say it's redemption and all
the drinks are NA and I'm pretty

1122
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,280
sure she's sober.
And I was just like, you go

1123
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,560
girl, you go and like that that
that's huge.

1124
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:59,840
Like, it's just a all and a bar
in Nashville that if you still

1125
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,720
want to see music, you can go
and you don't have to be tempted

1126
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,480
by anything.
And I just loved that.

1127
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,280
And I love her stories, her
songs, rock.

1128
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:08,720
She's awesome.
But yeah.

1129
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,200
Yeah, I had no idea about that.
I appreciate you sharing that

1130
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:14,400
with me.
That makes me want to go to

1131
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,160
Nashville again.
Right, because it is hard when

1132
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,160
it's around you right and you're
feeling temptation and you're

1133
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,560
like, well, everybody else is
doing it like maybe I should to

1134
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:24,240
fit in.
Or if you're not drinking,

1135
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,640
people are like, well, why
aren't you, you know, like you

1136
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,040
just come on, loosen up.
And it's like, I just want to

1137
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,080
say no because I don't want, I
don't want 1, you know?

1138
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,760
But I feel like sometimes it's
like you get a little pushed and

1139
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,720
you get a little made fun of for
it.

1140
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,000
But yes, I'm glad, like you
said, like the generational

1141
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,240
shift, I feel like it's kind of
changing.

1142
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,520
So it's getting a little easier.
Yeah, that's awesome luck.

1143
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,440
I'm so fortunate that I never
had the pull like when I decided

1144
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:51,880
to quit drinking.
It was easy for me.

1145
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:58,080
It wasn't from a place of like,
addiction or I did something

1146
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,440
terrible or something.
It was more of a conscious

1147
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,480
decision for me.
And I'm lucky that probably

1148
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,840
because I'm pretty stubborn and
I was just like, this is what

1149
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,440
I'm going to do.
And like, there were.

1150
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:10,200
And all my friends know that
about me.

1151
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,000
So the first time in
conversation, it was probably

1152
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:14,640
pretty startling for them.
Like what?

1153
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,720
You're not going to drink Like
you?

1154
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,360
I've partied really hard with
you.

1155
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,800
And yeah, and but past that, I
was, I'm one of the lucky ones

1156
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,080
that I was.
I never felt that that like pull

1157
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,120
of like, Oh my goodness,
everybody's drinking.

1158
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:34,440
I need to have. 1.
But I love it for the concept of

1159
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:39,080
providing an Ave. for those
people to like that do make the

1160
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,800
decision or have that pull,
Especially for the ones that

1161
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,080
have the pull actually to be
able to go and see a show.

1162
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:47,920
I've been listening to Ashley
since she was on tour with Eric

1163
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:52,800
Church Man 15 years ago.
I love Ashley McBride.

1164
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,160
Is insanely, insanely talented.
I love her stuff.

1165
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,720
I feel like I've been getting
more into her stuff recently.

1166
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:01,840
But like her radio hits I like,
no, but I need a deep dive into

1167
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,560
her, like albums because I feel
like she's just such an

1168
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,160
incredible person with such a
journey.

1169
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,000
And everyone told her no, you
couldn't do it and there she was

1170
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:13,960
doing it, you know?
I love stories like that.

1171
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:18,200
But I love that video of her and
I feel like an ass cuz I'm

1172
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:19,600
drawing a blank on the song
right now.

1173
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,080
But nowhere.
Yeah, and she played it on the

1174
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:27,080
Opry and she like, starts to
tear up a little bit and she

1175
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,040
shakes her fist and oh God, it
gives me goosebumps thinking.

1176
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,000
About it right now, I know
because someone said like you're

1177
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,160
not going to be able to do it.
And she's like, here I am in the

1178
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,880
Opry circle doing it actually
pretty good for a girl going

1179
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:40,760
nowhere.
And I just love that.

1180
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,720
I love that she's she's awesome.
She's so cool.

1181
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,560
Yeah.
What are some of your other

1182
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,000
musical inspirations?
Like when when you think back to

1183
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:55,120
those like first few that like,
I think most people that are

1184
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,760
drawn to music, like you can
think of those first few like

1185
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:01,240
songs or artists from your youth
when you were like, like you

1186
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,120
didn't know it at the time, but
it piqued your interest.

1187
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,880
Do you have any of those?
I would say, I mean, I've always

1188
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:07,920
been a Swifty.
I don't know if you're a Swifty

1189
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,520
over there, but I've always been
a Swifty.

1190
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,320
So I would say Taylor Swift has
been like a huge, especially in

1191
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,400
her like, country era.
I've been really deep diving

1192
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,040
into that to get some, like,
inspiration, I would say.

1193
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,720
And then as of like recent Ella
Langley, Avery, Anna, Megan

1194
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,040
Maroni, I would say I write the
most like Megan Maroni, but

1195
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:32,640
yeah.
I kind of get that vibe, yeah.

1196
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:37,600
Yeah, and she's just, I feel
like Ella is like very like

1197
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,920
tough, cool girl.
I don't know if she seems to

1198
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:44,040
play cool, but Megan is more
like we're just going to make

1199
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:45,440
fun of this.
Or even Sabrina Carpenter.

1200
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,400
She's makes fun of crappy
situations, whether that be it

1201
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,880
with boys or in.
Life I think herself is so

1202
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,600
catchy and creative.
Funny.

1203
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:58,280
It's so satirical.
I love that so, so much.

1204
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,400
But I would say those are like
some artists that like have

1205
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,480
inspired, but I also like my
dad.

1206
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:10,480
He definitely inspired me on
like the harder, harder rock

1207
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:15,560
stuff like ACDC, Poison, like I
love that era of music too.

1208
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,680
So it's like, I feel like
there's a really good mix of a

1209
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:23,280
lot of different like places.
So I definitely find like with

1210
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,480
certain songs, I'm like, Oh
yeah, I definitely like tapped

1211
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,520
into this one more, tapped into
this one more.

1212
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,120
Because even last night, I
always like to have a reference

1213
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,040
song of like, all right, where
are we?

1214
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:34,920
Where is this inspiration
pulling from?

1215
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,400
What are other people doing?
And like last night there was a

1216
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,600
song that I played that
definitely was more Chris

1217
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,480
Stapleton like.
And like I said about Taylor

1218
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,440
Swift, there was one that I was
like, I feel like this is very

1219
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:46,440
Taylor Swift coded or Megan
Maroney coded.

1220
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,200
So.
And there's a lot of different

1221
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:52,960
influences for sure.
And I'm very lucky to have grown

1222
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:57,120
up with that, but also still
enrich myself with that now too.

1223
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,800
I feel like, you know, as
important it is to create, it's

1224
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,560
also important to listen and see
what's out there too.

1225
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,200
And like, just enrich yourself
with like, you know, what are

1226
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:06,920
other people doing?
Oh, I like what they did.

1227
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,760
I like what they did.
Maybe I can combine the 2.

1228
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,040
And that's the awesome part
about creating.

1229
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,040
So there's no rules.
Absolutely.

1230
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,600
You can make whatever you want
and draw from whatever you want.

1231
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:19,480
And I think, I mean, I think any
songwriter in the world would

1232
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:21,640
benefit from listen to Taylor.
She's a genius.

1233
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,360
Yeah, absolute.
Genius, and I mean, even Post

1234
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:30,440
Malone to his his transition
from pop to like country.

1235
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:31,920
I'm like, how are you guys doing
it this?

1236
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:34,120
But this is awesome.
I love it, you know, and she did

1237
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,760
the country to like, she kind of
reversed it a little bit.

1238
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,240
I'm like, they can just cover it
all and I love it.

1239
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,800
I I have a theory about post.
I have AI have a theory about

1240
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,440
him.
I have a theory about well, we

1241
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,320
actually, it's funny because we
were just talking about it

1242
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:51,120
earlier.
I think post got painted into a

1243
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:56,280
creative corner by momentum like
he had he did white Iverson

1244
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,000
where it was cool hip hop song
with him driving around the

1245
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,160
desert in a car and he had
cornrows and stuff.

1246
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,040
And I think he got painted into
it and he like had to follow the

1247
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,880
dream.
But I, I don't think, I don't

1248
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:15,160
see it as so much of like, I
think it's just a creative shift

1249
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:18,240
for him that he was able to do
because he got a platform and

1250
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,840
then he could choose to do what
he actually wanted to do.

1251
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,960
Exactly.
And I think like, I don't get

1252
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,720
the same vibe from like Jelly
Roll, even though they did the

1253
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,440
same thing.
You love Jelly Roll?

1254
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:31,960
I think he's made some very good
music.

1255
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:37,080
I am part of this is probably
because, like, I'm, I'm a hip

1256
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,520
hop fan too.
I I like some generations of hip

1257
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:44,720
hop and I remember like Jelly
and little white rapping about

1258
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,000
some of the wildest stuff you'll
ever hear.

1259
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:53,640
And I think his story's awesome
about deciding that he needed to

1260
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,400
get clean and straighten up in
prison when his daughter was

1261
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,080
born.
Like I, I think that's all cool,

1262
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,040
but I, I think where I see the
shift a little bit differently

1263
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:07,480
is I don't think like, I think
it was a little bit more

1264
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:12,320
opportunity for him where he saw
the country space and saw that

1265
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,120
it was going to be a good
business decision for him to do.

1266
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,640
Whereas that wasn't a good
business decision for post.

1267
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:24,280
I mean, he was making all kinds
of money and I think he followed

1268
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:29,200
it because he was able to.
And I don't take away from

1269
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,920
either of them for doing it.
Like I said, like make your

1270
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:36,280
money if I'm all about business
decisions too and and get after

1271
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:37,920
it, But I think there's a
contrast there.

1272
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:40,840
Fun to think about, I don't
know.

1273
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:43,960
Yeah, I feel like sometimes it's
like you were saying before,

1274
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,160
like you're painted in this
picture, so you're gonna follow

1275
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,040
it and do what's like radio
friendly, what everybody likes

1276
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,640
right now.
But it's really cool when you

1277
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:59,600
see like a project like that's
more just so much more personal.

1278
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,800
I feel like, you know, it's
like, okay, this is you on the

1279
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,600
radio.
But like when you dive dive

1280
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,720
deeper into the album, it's
like, but this is you and I can

1281
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,720
see that in your writing.
And I just love that because

1282
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,480
you're always gonna have your
like super easy, digestible,

1283
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:14,560
like radio songs, which are
great, don't get me wrong.

1284
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,200
But it's like when you dive
deeper from the the picture

1285
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:22,279
perfect, like painted thing,
it's like there's so much more

1286
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:23,520
to that person.
Yeah.

1287
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,680
But yeah, seriously so cool how
like both have been able to

1288
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,359
Taylor Swift and and post like
just crossover and even Jelly

1289
01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:34,439
Roll coming from such like a
hard and then two.

1290
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,279
He like goes back to the prisons
and like does concerts.

1291
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:39,840
You go Jelly roll.
That is seriously so awesome.

1292
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,479
I love his wife too, Bunny.
She has a podcast too.

1293
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:43,960
She had Dolly Parton on there
one time.

1294
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:49,600
But yeah, yeah, no Jelly roll.
Just he comes from a really just

1295
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,680
like holy place too, with like
religion, religious stuff, which

1296
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,319
I really like his take on that.
But yeah, just somebody who

1297
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,279
doesn't look like they should or
not should, but like be it

1298
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:03,080
doesn't look like they would be
doing country music.

1299
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,640
And he's like, hey, we're in
country music and we're doing

1300
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:06,359
it.
And I just love it.

1301
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:08,800
He's so bold and I love it.
It's.

1302
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,080
Strange to me sometimes to think
about.

1303
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:15,120
So I'm a huge country music fan.
Yeah, it's strange to me to

1304
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:19,000
think about the perception that
it's got to now because you're

1305
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,359
exactly right.
You're spot on.

1306
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:26,479
But when I think of like the
roots of of country and even

1307
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,120
like before I was born, because
like when I think of my early

1308
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:34,359
inspirations, it was radio
country was like Garth, you

1309
01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:38,960
know, and it was that stuff.
But to me, the roots of country

1310
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:43,200
are like Waylon and Willie and
it was people forging their own

1311
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:47,880
path and swimming against the
grain.

1312
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,920
We're now today's industry.
It's become somewhat

1313
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:55,240
commercialized in places that
there's less, you see less of

1314
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,080
that.
And I think that's why it gives

1315
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:00,600
us such pleasure when it happens
because it's like, Oh my

1316
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:02,960
goodness, it's not another
Justin Moore.

1317
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:09,240
It it is someone that is like
outside of the quote UN quote

1318
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,600
Norm doing it.
And I think that's one of the

1319
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,920
beautiful things about music in
general.

1320
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,880
Oh, yeah.
Like, just how much it can,

1321
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:21,600
like, evolve in country, just
like from what it was to what it

1322
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,560
is now, Like it's crossed so
many different paths.

1323
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,680
I feel like now it's like can be
a little bit of rock, a little

1324
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,160
bit of pop, and like, it just
covers so many things.

1325
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,200
And like we were saying before,
like how it has no rules.

1326
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,080
And it's just really cool to see
people just, like, creatively

1327
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,480
where they're pulling from and
putting it all together in one.

1328
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:40,320
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a really cool

1329
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,160
video of somebody.
I think it was Waylon.

1330
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,200
I hope I'm not wrong.
And I think it was Waylon.

1331
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:51,120
And it was this old, like, talk
show vibe where like the Audi,

1332
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,000
you know, like, I'm like Maury
or something.

1333
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,000
They'd let the audience ask some
questions.

1334
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,600
It was that thing.
And this cute little old lady

1335
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:03,880
comes up to this microphone and
she talks about how her grandson

1336
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,720
listens to hip hop and how could
she fix him?

1337
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,200
Like, she used the word fix him
or do I even try?

1338
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:14,600
Yeah.
And Waylon gave such an awesome

1339
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:16,800
response.
He was like, you know, I don't

1340
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,560
think there really is any fixing
to be done.

1341
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,640
Does he have a job?
Like, what is he like as a

1342
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,360
human?
And.

1343
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:30,160
And I think about the some of
the, like, stereotypical thought

1344
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,120
processes around country music
and the people who listen.

1345
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:39,000
And I think that answer may be
different today and I don't

1346
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:40,400
know.
I appreciate Wayland's more.

1347
01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:44,480
I I appreciate his message and
saying like, what's there to

1348
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:46,160
fix?
And then he makes an awesome

1349
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:50,080
joke at the end she's and he's
like, I don't think you have to

1350
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:52,240
worry about it.
Does he listen to Willie?

1351
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:56,920
Because then you have to worry.
Yeah.

1352
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,440
And he and he and he kind of
like tongue in cheek threw it

1353
01:11:59,440 --> 01:12:01,760
back at her.
And of course, like a person

1354
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,400
like that, she didn't catch it,
you know, she didn't catch the

1355
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:07,320
the how really like quick that
was.

1356
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:10,800
But he just pretty much threw it
back at her and said, like, look

1357
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,560
at this dude in our genre one
that here that you're a propping

1358
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:18,640
and you have this siloed view of
it.

1359
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:20,920
And I just thought it was it was
genius.

1360
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:23,040
And to me, that's what country
music is.

1361
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:29,720
And that perception, I think,
has become clouded by the

1362
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:34,120
commercialness of it at times.
Because I hear so many people

1363
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:38,560
that tell me like, oh, I only
listen to old country, the new

1364
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,240
stuff stinks.
And I was like, no, the ones

1365
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:47,080
that you know of stink.
Like, you can't, you can't tell

1366
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:50,120
me that.
Like, especially so someone in

1367
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,000
that room put on a Sturgill
Simpson record and tell me that

1368
01:12:53,000 --> 01:13:00,480
dude's not making music.
Yeah, like it's, I am always so

1369
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,000
sad when people say that like,
oh, old country is way better.

1370
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,960
Like, don't get me wrong, I love
the old country too, and we

1371
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:09,280
wouldn't be anywhere like
without it today.

1372
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:13,720
But it's like that is the beauty
of like independent music

1373
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,560
musicians too, of like people
who aren't with the labels that

1374
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:22,960
are like just sharing so much
creativity and like their music

1375
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,200
has no boundaries.
You know, it's like, OK, maybe

1376
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:28,760
90s is like your preference and
and that's fine, but you just

1377
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,320
had you need to dive deeper it
than to what they just play on

1378
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,680
the old country radio station.
There's so many talented people

1379
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:36,800
out there.
And I just feel like people need

1380
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,480
to like expose themselves a
little bit more now, something I

1381
01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:43,840
learned as I was getting into
the more the music realm is I

1382
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,080
was like, Oh my God, there's so
much out there.

1383
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:48,960
It's almost overwhelming how
much like music is out there.

1384
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:51,920
But I love scrolling on like my
for you page and then being

1385
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:53,680
like, oh, I like this person.
I like this song.

1386
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,760
I feel like I've really, I
educated myself.

1387
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,240
I'm like who are the new and up
and coming like artists?

1388
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,840
Like this is really fun to tell
to see.

1389
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:07,440
Like Carter Faith I went and saw
in February and she's kind of an

1390
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:10,760
up and coming country artist,
but it was so cool to see her at

1391
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:13,960
that stage before.
Probably she'll make it big at

1392
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,400
some point.
And like it's such a gem to see

1393
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,280
them like start small and like
see them at like their smaller

1394
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,000
shows because I've never had
that.

1395
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,720
I feel like I see people that
are like, oh, like I deserve

1396
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:28,160
front row tickets because I was
at this show like before, like

1397
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:29,840
anybody blew up, whatever,
whatever.

1398
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,800
I've never had that.
So just seeing her and in this

1399
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,800
like, smaller, more intimate
venue, I was just so happy and

1400
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:39,440
like, excited to see her.
And I'm just so excited to see

1401
01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:42,040
like where she goes to.
But yeah, there's just so much

1402
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:45,200
music out there that, like, I
feel like people who stick to

1403
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,160
the 90s, just like they don't
even know about, like, do they

1404
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:48,360
even have Spotify?
Probably not.

1405
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:50,440
It's like they probably just
listen to Turn on the radio and

1406
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,280
that's what it is.
And that's what it is.

1407
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,680
And radio has all the control of
what what you know.

1408
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,360
And that's an issue.
That's why I love podcasts.

1409
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:03,440
Mainstream media has come to a
very clouded place of like power

1410
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:06,120
and money and the combination of
those two things.

1411
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:10,160
But oh, you're exactly right.
That's a huge.

1412
01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:13,480
So that's one of the few things
I miss about working in radio.

1413
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:16,560
Like the whole reason I love
doing it was my my ultimate

1414
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:18,080
goal.
I got to program a station with

1415
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:20,040
whatever music I wanted to for
seven years.

1416
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:23,640
I got to pick it and I got to
say so I exposed a bunch of

1417
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,880
people to Brent Cobb, Tyler
children, Sergil Simpson, like

1418
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:32,400
Jason Isbell, people that I dig
and shined a different light on

1419
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:33,480
the music that's available out
there.

1420
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:37,600
But I love the the early
concert.

1421
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,240
I miss that so much because I
was in music so much that I was

1422
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:44,760
able to find it And I had a
like, I don't know why, but I

1423
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:48,040
always had a pretty good year.
I just judge by what I liked.

1424
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:52,200
But I think there's people who
like things that I do and I was

1425
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:56,560
able to like use that to to find
like minded people.

1426
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:02,480
And like I saw, I saw Tyler at
Blue Ox with a couple hundred

1427
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:05,080
other people just with my elbows
on the thing.

1428
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,520
And I was like, this dude is a
monster.

1429
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,880
He's got to get him.
And luckily he did.

1430
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:13,040
He got a massive platform that
everybody knows Tyler now.

1431
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:17,640
But like those, there's even
mainstream ones like Brantley

1432
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:22,200
Gilbert, I saw it like a, it was
like a 1:00 stage at Summerfest

1433
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:26,000
where nobody's in the crowd.
And I was like, this guy's going

1434
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:30,680
to make it like he's going to.
And it's, it's that's so fun.

1435
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:40,000
It's such a fun part about music
to see that thing happen of, OK,

1436
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,240
this is a rocket ship, but when
is the fuse going to get lit?

1437
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,920
You know?
And really, I think that's what

1438
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:50,120
drew a lot of people to your
TikTok is like, you see that?

1439
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,200
And it was so like authentic and
endearing.

1440
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:59,160
And you had like, I think one of
the hooks about it in the like,

1441
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,760
you have a really like unique
inflection when you sing

1442
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,840
sometimes and that's super
helpful.

1443
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:12,160
It gives you a style and that's
what it stops like, you know,

1444
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,840
you see the most talented people
and you're like, why did how did

1445
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,560
this person never go anywhere?
Well, I'll give you a hint.

1446
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,760
Go to any studio session that
ever happens in Nashville and

1447
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,440
you'll have somebody RIP the
guitar like nothing you've ever

1448
01:17:24,440 --> 01:17:27,080
seen before.
But they didn't have that thing,

1449
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:30,720
you know, they didn't have the
thing that set them apart from a

1450
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,000
crowd.
Right, because you don't want to

1451
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:34,720
be like everybody else.
You can't be.

1452
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:36,120
And Ella, there's already a
Laney.

1453
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:39,640
Can't be, don't do that.
Like you got to be yourself

1454
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:43,800
because I feel like I see some
people on social media like

1455
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:48,320
whether it's like a like
something that's really similar

1456
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:50,800
to what another artist did, but
it's like you got to find the

1457
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,760
things that like set you apart
from everybody else, you know?

1458
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,720
So, so you for the for the vast
majority that are only listening

1459
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,560
on the podcast, when I said it,
when I talked about the

1460
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,160
inflection, you had a funny look
and you knew exactly what I was

1461
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:05,280
talking about.
Where does?

1462
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:07,920
Where does that?
Like are you talking about just

1463
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,520
like me kind of sounding a
little bit more like Southern

1464
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:13,160
like when I or just which party?
Because I've had people like

1465
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:17,000
comment, be like, you sound like
you're from the South, like when

1466
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:19,840
you sing or even like sometimes
when I talk.

1467
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:21,320
I don't know why.
I've literally lived in

1468
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:24,120
Wisconsin all of my life.
I just somehow pick up the

1469
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:25,760
southern a little bit.
I don't.

1470
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:28,480
Know not that, no.
OK, so I'm interested, where are

1471
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:34,000
you?
Mine is your like when I think

1472
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:38,040
of the first video, the choosing
Wisconsin thing, it was how what

1473
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:41,800
comes to my mind is how you said
the word Wisconsin but not with

1474
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:45,280
a southern accent.
It it was more it's the

1475
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:48,360
inflection that you gave it.
There was almost like there was

1476
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:50,720
almost like a like an H in
there.

1477
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:53,360
Oh yeah, I did see some people
comment that too.

1478
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:54,040
Oh, did they?
I.

1479
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,280
I stay out of the comments on
social.

1480
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:00,200
I stay out of the comments and
like I'm looking, I'm looking.

1481
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:02,960
In that scenario, it's hard not
to because you're taking a pulse

1482
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,600
of what people are thinking and
and you have to do it to make a

1483
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:06,400
business.
Decision.

1484
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:11,240
But for me as a viewer, I just
take in what I think and then I

1485
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:14,760
move along my merry way.
But that's what I'm talking

1486
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,080
about.
It Like it's that thing where

1487
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:20,880
when you hear somebody sing, you
know it's them.

1488
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:23,600
That's what I'm getting.
At like Megan Maroney has like a

1489
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,400
very, I feel like deep raspy.
I don't certainly just know it's

1490
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:28,440
her.
That's.

1491
01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:30,600
Maybe not deep and raspy, but
like, you know what I'm saying?

1492
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,040
You hear Meg, and you know it's
her.

1493
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,880
That's the thing I'm getting at.
I don't know her music enough to

1494
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,520
like be able to tell if that's
the thing I'm trying to think of

1495
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:39,800
a well, a good example would be
Tyler.

1496
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:44,640
Like if you hear Tyler sing one
note and you know it's Tyler

1497
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:49,200
like that.
Like after that one video, I

1498
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:51,920
could be scrolling through
anything and if I heard a song

1499
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:53,800
with you singing on it, I would
know it was you.

1500
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:56,960
And that is that's I've.
Never heard that.

1501
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:58,520
Thank you.
That's really.

1502
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:00,760
You're welcome.
Wow, thank you so much.

1503
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,200
That is like I've never heard
somebody say that and like put

1504
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:04,560
it that way.
So thank you.

1505
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,560
I appreciate that.
You're welcome to know that it's

1506
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:08,760
like a little different, like
recognizable.

1507
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:12,320
Yeah, you're welcome.
It comes from a super authentic

1508
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:13,880
place though.
I'm not just trying to toot your

1509
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:19,240
horn.
It like that is the thing that

1510
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:24,600
people that get very successful
in their musical careers have

1511
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:28,200
that you see these, you know,
for every 99 people that you see

1512
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:31,320
that can RIP the guitar or sing
the daylights out of something,

1513
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:34,240
there's the one person that
makes it and you're like, OK,

1514
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:37,360
what's the differentiator?
That's the differentiator that I

1515
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:44,200
see almost all the time is it's
just so it sounds so unique that

1516
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:47,360
it doesn't take all those
impressions to be like, Oh yeah,

1517
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:51,760
this is this person.
And it's really, it's pretty

1518
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,280
clear.
Like when you look back across

1519
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:58,880
history, like the people who
were monsters in a good way, I'm

1520
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:03,400
saying they had that thing like
you can't listen to Prince and

1521
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,360
not know it's Prince.
You can't listen to the Bruce

1522
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:09,720
and not know it's Springsteen.
Like it's those people.

1523
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:16,200
And I think the more that like
when someone has that gift, when

1524
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,280
you can double down on it and
say like, yeah, this, this is

1525
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,080
exactly it.
I mean, Ella's kind of that way

1526
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:22,680
too.
You listen to Ella Langley and

1527
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,640
it's a few notes and you know,
it's Ella Langley thing.

1528
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:29,440
So I don't know.
It's, I can't even remember how

1529
01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:35,560
we got talking about that, but
it's a if it was the seeing

1530
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:37,160
concerts early or something or
whatever.

1531
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:39,040
Yeah, well, actually I did want
to go back to that.

1532
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:42,640
I just wanted to say like those
also too, like as a on the flip

1533
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:46,440
side, as like the artists in
like looking out and not seeing

1534
01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:48,160
that many people.
Like those are the shows that

1535
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:50,720
also I just wanted to say to
like Brandy, if there's anybody

1536
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:52,080
listening that's like starting
their journey.

1537
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:55,400
Like those are the the shows
that like make you they make you

1538
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,040
like stronger when there's
nobody out there and you're

1539
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:01,520
like, what the heck.
You know, it's, it's sad to

1540
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:05,680
like, see, but like, feel like
every musician goes through

1541
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:08,200
that.
And just like, if there's nobody

1542
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:09,960
there, nobody's really paying
attention to you.

1543
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,320
But those are the shows that
make you such a better

1544
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:15,120
performer.
And being like, able to, if

1545
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:17,400
there's like 50 people in the
room.

1546
01:22:17,440 --> 01:22:19,120
Emily and Roberts said something
like this.

1547
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:24,600
She's also awesome if there's
like 50 people in the room and

1548
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,680
like nobody's really like paying
attention to you.

1549
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:30,400
It's just so important to still
sing your little heart out

1550
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,360
because there's probably one or
two people that are like

1551
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,520
cheering yawn and you just don't
even know it.

1552
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,720
Like you just got to play like
it's literally your last day on

1553
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,680
earth or you're standing in the
Opry circle.

1554
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,000
And I just think that's so
important for artists because I

1555
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:47,120
feel like for me, if there's not
a lot of feedback or if like if

1556
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:50,160
I'm more of a background show,
I'm always like, wow, that

1557
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,680
wasn't my best show because
nobody like I was reacting or

1558
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,160
like cheer, you know, just like
nobody was looking.

1559
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:58,280
I'm like, oh, that wasn't good.
It doesn't mean it wasn't good.

1560
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:05,520
It's just like I have played in
venues where I just don't suit

1561
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:09,240
their fit.
Like, and I think that's also

1562
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:11,480
very important to learn.
I've, I've been learning this

1563
01:23:11,480 --> 01:23:17,560
too, like where I thrive are my
dive bars or just like any old

1564
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:21,760
hole in the wall place because
like I've got a lot of friends

1565
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,360
in low places that want to just
like have a good time and sing

1566
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,760
their hearts out with me.
I'm not a background player.

1567
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,920
And so like those like coffee
shop vibes or sometimes like

1568
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:34,360
even the wine bar vibe where
they just kind of want more

1569
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:37,200
background music because I've
been told once before that I've

1570
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:38,760
been too loud.
And that's where it's just like,

1571
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,800
OK, I know that I thrive in
other places.

1572
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:47,200
So I just wanted to say like,
even where like it's like a

1573
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:51,400
smaller audience, like those
shows are just so, so important.

1574
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:52,880
And those are the shows that you
remember.

1575
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,360
Like even when you think
nobody's paying attention, there

1576
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:58,440
was probably one person and it
could be like somebody really

1577
01:23:58,440 --> 01:24:00,880
important that saw you pouring
your heart out into that, you

1578
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:02,840
know, so.
So there's a whole another layer

1579
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:05,880
to that too, that one or two
people could have been the

1580
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,880
people that came there for you.
Right, exactly.

1581
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,720
They came there to see you, yes,
even though the vast majority of

1582
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:16,200
the other ones didn't.
And there's probably some

1583
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:18,400
expectations that come with
that, right?

1584
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:22,520
And you can solidify A lifelong
fan at that moment or you can

1585
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:25,040
breeze through it and they can
be like, well, it was good, but

1586
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,320
it you know, it isn't, it didn't
hit the mark.

1587
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:29,600
It's funny.
That's what the Blue Ox show was

1588
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:31,840
for Tyler.
I mean, Blue Ox is a bluegrass

1589
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,800
music festival and Tyler was not
playing bluegrass.

1590
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:37,120
He was that was like nose to the
grindstone days.

1591
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:41,000
It was rough and tumble.
Oh, it's fantastic.

1592
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,600
And, and at that same one, I
mean, Billy Strings was there

1593
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:47,480
too, and you can see that
crossover.

1594
01:24:47,480 --> 01:24:50,160
He I mean, he's a bluegrass guy,
you know, but he was playing

1595
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:53,000
that newgrass style and nobody
knew the rocket ship he was

1596
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:55,720
going to hop on either.
But that was Tyler at that show

1597
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,320
where that's why there were
fifty other people paying

1598
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:01,040
attention, because they were all
there for a different type of

1599
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:02,560
music.
That doesn't mean that Tyler

1600
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:05,640
wasn't a monster.
It just means that the audience

1601
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,000
didn't suit his thing.
But guess what?

1602
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,720
The whole reason I went to Blue
Ox was to see Tyler.

1603
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:17,680
I was there to see his 5:00 set
or whatever it was and I left

1604
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,960
before the headliners.
So I was the complete flip side

1605
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:22,920
of the coin.
I was like, I've seen pertinier

1606
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:24,720
sandstone.
I don't need to see them again.

1607
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:29,320
Like, I like bluegrass, but I
went there to see Tyler and

1608
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,400
that's how that's how you
connect.

1609
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:35,920
You know, anytime you have a
stage and a mic, that's your

1610
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,120
opportunity to try to connect
with someone.

1611
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:41,880
Yes, no matter how big or how
small you are, no matter, like

1612
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:44,520
you said, like if there's two
people or 100 people in the

1613
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,320
audience, just like always, just
trying to make a connection of

1614
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:51,240
some sort, you know.
But yeah, I love like how you

1615
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:53,520
said with Tyler, like you were
just there for him and the for

1616
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:55,560
the headliners.
Like, I loved seeing Carter

1617
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:58,520
Faith, like at High Noon Saloon
in Madison and just, it was so

1618
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:02,160
small and intimate.
And it's like, I, I mean, I

1619
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:04,360
could make this up, but I'm
pretty sure she saw me.

1620
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:07,000
And it's just like having that
moment of just like, Oh my God.

1621
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,160
Like, hey, like with your like
favorite person.

1622
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,600
It's like, wow, she saw me and
that's cool.

1623
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,840
And like, just seeing them, like
gain their success after that,

1624
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:16,640
it's like, I remember when, you
know.

1625
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:17,920
Yeah.
So we'll make it.

1626
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:19,840
We'll make a clip of that and
tag her on Instagram.

1627
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:22,640
She could play.
Please, she sees.

1628
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:25,760
It Well Mariah, it was a
pleasure chatting with you.

1629
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:27,840
Yeah, it was a pleasure.
Pleasure chatting with you too.

1630
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:29,640
I had a great time.
Thank you.

1631
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:33,920
Just like sitting and chatting
and it was just so like natural,

1632
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:36,680
organic and I had a great time.
So that's what it is.

1633
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:38,560
Yeah, absolutely.
It's my pleasure.

1634
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:40,120
Thanks.
Keep bringing your art into the

1635
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:41,800
world.
I've had a lot of people bring

1636
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,080
out that that comment.
Like some people that want to

1637
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:46,200
come on, they're like, are you
going to send me questions

1638
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,000
beforehand or what are we going
to talk about?

1639
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:53,600
And I always find I have to find
a way to navigate the round.

1640
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:55,440
Like, I'm not going to send you
anything.

1641
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:58,600
Like we're going to just sit
down and talk AS2 humans, yeah.

1642
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:02,880
And then see where it goes.
But I think there's a lot of

1643
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:06,560
there's a lot of connection that
can be made because of that.

1644
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,240
Because I agree.
Yeah, it's, it's tough, you

1645
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:11,160
know, like feel.
Scripted, like if you were to

1646
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:13,200
set, which I'm glad you, you
don't do that.

1647
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:15,560
Like if you were to send me
questions, I'd be like, OK, he's

1648
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:17,840
going to ask me this and I'm
going to answer like this and

1649
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,960
I'm going to say this and blah,
blah, blah.

1650
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:21,640
Yeah, like this was just so
natural.

1651
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:24,640
Like whatever came to my head,
like came to my head or whatever

1652
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:26,640
we forgot about, we forgot
about, and out the window it

1653
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:29,120
went.
That's the biggest downside.

1654
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:30,440
It's funny that you bring that
up.

1655
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:34,120
Every single show, every single
one, every guest.

1656
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:36,960
So you're going to be episode
probably like 75 or 80 or

1657
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:39,720
something like that.
And I can't think of one that

1658
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:42,800
afterwards I was like, damn, I
wish we would have talked about

1659
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:44,800
this.
Like it always happens and it's

1660
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:48,400
inevitable because it isn't
planned, but there's so much

1661
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:51,240
connection to be had in that,
that it brings out the true

1662
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:53,040
human.
And that's what I think life's

1663
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:55,800
all about.
Like I want to know more of the

1664
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:59,680
real humans and less of the PR
humans, you know what I'm

1665
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:01,560
saying?
Like, and I think people do too.

1666
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,280
So that's what I'm trying to do.
But I'm, I'm one of those I'm,

1667
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,760
I'm living the podcast zone of
what you're talking about right

1668
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:08,840
now.
Like there'll be 1000 people

1669
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:11,720
that see this and, and those
thousand people, I appreciate

1670
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:15,640
you, you know what I mean?
So I appreciate your time.

1671
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:16,040
Thank you.