Keifer Sykes - Hoops Career, Fatherhood, Deep Reflection, & Tight Hugs - Episode #58

0:00 What's up friends, Welcome back to Rooted Wisconsin. Appreciate you for clicking another episode. We're grateful to have you here. Today's episode is with Kiefer Sykes. I'm so excited to share. Kiefer, former star at UWGB, current pro basketball player, spent some time with the Pacers. He's played overseas and such a cool dude. We had an awesome conversation as always. Some of it's about basketball, but not all that much. It's it's a lot about life. He's got a really cool documentary on Prime called Shy Town that he kind of get into the back story of. I was intrigued when I watched it to figure out like why there were cameras around him when he was 17. It's a super cool story that involves Oprah, so check that out too. But first, check out our conversation and understand the man.

0:44 He he's such a cool guy. We talked about yoga and meditation. We talked about fatherhood, talked about the importance of embracing the people we love with intention and giving big hard hugs and what that can mean in life. And just so, so much, so much deep reflective conversation. That's exactly what I yearn for as a human. So it was a real breath of fresh air chatting with Kiefer. I'm excited to share. Shout out to our sponsors as always. A big shout out to Carouser bringing a non alcoholic option to you for the holidays. How many holidays have been ruined by someone who you know had too much alcohol?

1:24 Let's take that option off the plate. Carouser NA options straight to you, delivered right to your door. Also a big shout out to Joel at Wonder Sign for hooking us up with some cool rooted Wisconsin hats. They're going like hotcakes. If you want one, make sure you get in contact with me and shout out to you. Grateful to you as we kind of wrap up Thanksgiving and keep it moving here in the holiday season. So great. Again, grateful to have you here. And without further ado, let's get it moving. Keep for Sykes. I got so many things.

2:19 I'm excited to chat with you, but I'm like 2/3 of the way through the documentary, so that's perfect. Yeah, I didn't get, I didn't get the end yet. So maybe we'll get some of the ending today. But I thought maybe a cool place to start. Like one of the things that drew me into it actually, before we get there. How did that even come about? So it's like as someone who like makes media like why were why were the cameras by you at 1617 making the documentary? Yeah, it's an interesting story. It's cool because you know going it's called shot town documentary, Amazon Prime. But yeah, being from Chicago, Oprah, she had her last season of her show, I think like the 10th year of her her show.

3:00 And the production crew was from New York and they love basketball just from being in New York, you know, another inner city that's big with sports, you know, in general. And they, you know, was doing their own private project. So, you know, they started filming like this is a great happening and, you know, being in the present time. But just. Because you were kind of booming at the time. No, it didn't happen like that. So they were recording all the scenes. Well, at first they started just they want to have a big basketball project, you know, so they were filming everyone that has some influence on basketball to tell just a basketball story. Got it. OK. And we had this big non violence prevention All Star game.

3:42 I was a senior, so it just happened to be my senior year. And they, you know, were filming seniors that's playing high school basketball. And after they, you know, had so many perspectives, they were like, man, you know, the they couldn't tell a good story. You know, it's like it's, it's, it's too broad. So luckily when I was on the camera when they filmed me, you know, I was like trying to be a movie star. I'm like, all right, I'm have some charisma. I'm just, you know, this is my shot like always, you know, so I have fun with the camera always just wanted to, you know, just had a good character, had a good feel, you know, So, you know, they, they like my family, like my story. I was a teenage parent at the time, you know, and luckily I came to Green Bay and I was one of the youngest freshmen in the country and I played a lot here, you know, because I went to a mid major.

4:33 A lot of the other scenes that they recorded in film, they didn't play a lot. So, you know, I was emerging as a good collegiate player and you know, halfway through my freshman, they was like, Hey, we just going to, you know, go with you and tell a story. So that's that's how it happened. Just just was just just luck. Bless a blessing, honestly. Great place for a time. That's awesome. So like the for the first, you know, 15 minutes of that until I got entranced in your story, that's I just couldn't stop thinking about that. I was like, how did this come to be? I just assumed it was because like you were making waves in Chicago as a Hooper, which obviously that's part of the reason why. But then I couldn't, you know, I couldn't connect the dots. That's so awesome.

5:13 Man, yeah, yeah. It's crazy because you think about like all the great players have come from Chicago, like Jwari Parker, Derrick Rose, Lizziah Thomas, Kevin Garnett played in Chicago, long list of players, you know, Corey Mcgaddy, all these great players, but you know, they don't have documentaries. And I'm like, you know, so it was kind of ironic because when they when the movie came out, it was like, you know, I'm like, nobody's going to watch this. You know, I'm playing at Green Bay. I'm just and it's, you know, I'm living my normal life. You know, all this stuff is normal to me, you know, like the poverty, the gun violence, the the gangs, like I'm just oblivious to, you know, the impact that this will have. But I'll never forget the first Film Festival we did South by Southwest. That's when, you know, the first Film Festival that picked up the film, we did our premiere.

6:01 So after, you know, we go up and do the the Q&A with the directors and, you know, people are crying. People are like, you're so strong and you know, you're motivating and inspiring. You know, I'm just, you know, I'm aware, but I'm just a humble person and I'm just like, always focus on the next team. So, you know, I, I was like, you know, didn't understand, but that put a lot of things in perspective for me. So that was cool. Yeah. And that leads me into some of my first questions that I had, because it's hard not to. Like, I see why they went with the story. It's hard not to get drawn into it and how you handled all of it, like with poison and just like so many things being thrown at you. I wanted to start with the teenage parent thing because I thought that was one of the coolest parts of the documentary of like it would flash forward to the next year and he would be bigger and bigger And I have a four year old right now. So I was like kind of living vicariously through that moment. I was like, I get this like, and it's for one, it's awesome you have that like memorialized, but and maybe there's some benefit to being as young as you were at the time because maybe that leads to some of that ability to compartmentalize the bad stuff that's going on around you.

7:10 But like, how, what was that like, dude, what was that like coming to Green Bay? You were a teenage father. Like, do you remember what you felt like in those moments, like when you drive up to Green Bay? Because I couldn't tell. Did they come with you for the first year or did they stay? No, they stayed. But but yeah, I mean, to your point, first, it is cool to have that documented, you know, of me and him, my son, you know, then I had a daughter, my senior in the movie. But you know, it's like, man, I had to grow up fast, you know, coming from Chicago where it's just, you know, you already have to grow up fast. And then, you know, I make some choices that, you know, make life, you know, more, you know, harder.

7:50 Then I lose my father, who is like my guy, who, you know, someone who instilled a lot of leadership and, you know, taught me how to handle everything. But burden burdened a lot for me. But, you know, things changed, you know, when he passed away. So I had to grow up even faster. So just the way my life set up, I had to grow up, you know, pretty fast. But it is cool, you know, to have that documented, you know, being able to see those times where he would come, my son would come up here with me and just be walking around the gym or, you know, helping me remember how I will go to class. And we'll just have to find someone to watch him while I have class. And, you know, just someone to watch him while I'm doing my homework. And, you know, just being a college kid, but also being a young, young parent trying to figure it out. So it's cool that, you know, have that documented. And but, you know, me and my son, we pretty much had to, to grow up together.

8:41 And, you know, making that transition from Chicago to inner city to Green Bay. I, I tell people the best thing for me, which is why I feel like I'm still here. You know, that that time in life was like where I grew from a, a kid to an adult, you know, like a boy to a man. People like to say, but this is the best place for me. You know, it's very much peaceful, loyal, you know, positive people, family, family, like people, you know, which, you know, kind of mimic the life that I live, you know, 'cause I had that, you know, at home with my mom and dad and my family, but outside my doors, I didn't have that. So to finally have that safe haven here was, you know, life changing for me. It helped me succeed.

9:26 You know, I would like to tell people. Yeah, yeah. So much about that is awesome. And I recognize that that was very clear in the documentary was like, it was awesome. How like this, a lot of the story was about the tumultuous stuff going on outside, but every time he walked in the doorman, everybody was smiling and happy. And just like that wasn't what was on the front of the mind. And one of my favorite scenes you kind of just brought up a little bit is when your son is, it looked like it. I don't know if there's a dorm room or an apartment or something, but you were there. It looked like with like 4 roommates and you were video chatting with his mom and you said something like he is at home. And your son was like, I'm going to stay here. Yeah, yeah, that moment was funny. Yeah.

10:10 That is one of my favorite moments in the movie because it's like, you know, that's that shows you like I say in our relationship, you know, he grow with me like he always favoured me. You know, he has my name and you know, he just echoing whatever I tell him to say, you know, such at a young fun age. But but yeah, man, like you say, that moment where we, me and my roommates, we sitting at the kitchen table probably don't have food, trying to make any food, burning food, just trying to figure it out, get through college. They got nil now, which is crazy. But you know, but we were just living life and enjoying it. And especially in Green Bay, man, we had a lot of fun, a lot of good times. And you know, obviously of have left the long lasting impact and you know, a lot of success for us in our adult life.

10:58 Yeah, yeah, I kept putting myself in those shoes. Like I thought about myself navigating as like a 19 year old first time college student. And I tried, like, imagining myself throwing my kid in there too. And it had to be so hard at times. You're just trying to learn what to do. I was, I mean, at least for me, I was still trying to learn how to be an adult. And you actually joked about that. You said something like, I don't know if I'm ready to be an adult yet or something like that. But I guess when you have to, you have to, you know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, luckily I had a lot of help, you know, because, you know, going up from, you know, grow up in Chicago. That's why I like, you know, even though I didn't have much, I feel like I had a lot because I had support, you know, like here it was the support, you know, so it wasn't like I was doing a lot of things by myself.

11:43 You know, I've seen I've seen people that don't have support or don't have resources, don't have anyone to call or, you know, when I did need, you know, 100 bucks to buy him a coat, I could find someone or ask someone or, you know, be able to have like a stipend and have to make decisions, you know, adult decisions where it's like, OK, maybe everybody's getting a new iPhone, but I got to buy a coat and some shoes for us. But I was able, you know, I come from where people are not even able. So, you know, I just always appreciate tip grateful. And that made me, you know, want to go hard and stay focused and, you know, have my son, you know, gave me a sense of maturity where I was like, OK, I have to, you know, prevail through these obstacles.

12:28 You know, I have to make it and have self-discipline, be resilient and be persistent and consistent on, you know, just making the right decision every day and doing my best. And I just lead to, you know, just me growing into a man at those times. Yeah, it did a lot of like that. Like that doesn't come natural. Often times it's taught. Did a lot of that come from your dad, like the resilience, the persistence, all that stuff? Yeah, a lot of it came from my dad, you know, with me being the youngest. So like he spent a lot of time with me, you know, he spent a lot of time, man. My friend was just telling me this yesterday. My actually Carrington, my point guard shooting guard from Milwaukee.

13:08 He was my backcourt mate here. But he was like, you know, we were talking about that and I was just saying how my dad, I feel like he will always be giving me lessons. You know, I will always, you know, the conversation was always deep at a young age and I'm like, this is always too, too strong. But he's giving me lessons. And then, you know, it was like because he passed away, but it was like maybe he was preparing me. We had the conversation like he always gave me those lessons, but he was preparing me because he must have knew something, you know, because with his health or just him knowing his time or just, you know, so it was like, you know, he really raised me correctly in the midst of chaos, which, you know, even at home with us having so many, me having so many siblings and us having so many kids. But, you know, they definitely, you know, gave me a lot of wisdom and set a lot of good examples for me. Yeah.

13:57 You know, another thing I noticed the shift gears a little bit. I thought it was in getting to know you just a little bit here. I'm not surprised, but maybe it stems from some of those deep conversations that you're comfortable with. But I noticed that everybody embrace in the documentary, like when you hug somebody like you mean it like. That's one thing I noticed is, I don't know, jumped off the screen for me. Is that how you feel? Yeah, it's crazy to say that because I like to tell people I like to give the tightest hugs. So like when I hug somebody, I squeeze them. You know, I just, I don't know where that came from. So I was even crazy that you noticed that. But I do, you know, that's, you know, I just like to embrace people, make them feel loved, make them feel, you know, nurtured, like you saw on the film. You know, every fan I spend time with was intentional.

14:39 You know, I'm big on intentionality, I'm big on, you know, integrity. I'm big on, you know, presence. A lot of that stems from the yoga mat too, just being in a moment and enjoying that moment because you know, I've seen a lot of people come and go. You know, unfortunately from where I'm from, you see somebody here today going tomorrow, which is still happening, you know, in my life, around my life and extension of my life from things that I see. And you know, in the time that we live in now, social media, everything is pretty much superficial. So I just like to, you know, stay genuine, stay real. I like, I feel like I have a old soul, like you say, because of my father. I know we reference him a lot, but he means a lot to me. And yeah, those are the most important things in life to me. Yeah, I could tell.

15:26 I could tell by watching and maybe in some ways it's because I've I feel the same way a lot. It's funny talking about this. I just did AI just did a fishing trip with some of my old buddies. And as I was leaving, one of one of my friends is a really like like a gruff guy, you know, like he's a tough guy, doesn't hug or whatever. So as we were saying goodbyes, I made fun of him because I was like, I know you're not standing up because I know you're you know, I'm going to hug you and I'm going to hug you as hard as I can. And he didn't and he didn't do it. So then my other buddy, I, you know, I hugged him. I hugged everybody on the way because I'm not going to see you for a year. We're going to be different people when I see you again. Yeah, And I noticed it right away. Everybody like everybody that you embrace like you did it with intention. It was awesome.

16:08 Yeah. I mean, you never know what happens. Look at COVID, right? Like COVID time, you never know someone with health, you know, with the randomness, you know, so next time, man, just jump on them. You know, you know what I'm saying? Strong some love because but you know, I've I've been around, you know, I have enough for profit organization that, you know, help kids that have, you know, deal with trauma and crises and mental health. You know, all that stuff is big. You never know that people may need that love. You know, like, like I say, I that was the the thing that I was most grateful for, you know, that I had a home that was love. You know, my, I saw my parents married for 25 years, you know, amongst my friends with single parents or even being raised by that grandparents or, you know, people just fighting and, you know, a lot of killing.

16:55 You know, it's like people just need love, you know, like, you know, so that's why I, like you said, I like just on the drive from Green Bay, I mean, from Chicago to Green Bay, it was like a change in atmosphere and just mental. I could just relax and release and, you know, just a different environment for me. And when I learned that like, OK, it's OK to have love or like people leave their dope. People have cars open, like no one's going to steal nothing. No one's going to hurt each other. If you drop something, they're going to, you know, give it to you. And it may sound so simple, but, you know, you know, like, it's just a randomness of life. And like you said, man, people need love. And it's what makes the world a better place.

17:37 Yeah. If we have more of that world would be better for sure. Yeah, there's an awesome social media video in the abyss of like negativity that is social media. There's these glimmers of hope in there. And there's this awesome one that I think of in that concept where that like, I can't remember if it's a dad or but it's in it like it's a father figure. And he's like really getting after a teenager. And then after he gets what I see as his point across, he like gives him the biggest hug and then the teenager just turns into a puddle, you know? And it's that concept of of people needing love. It's really interesting you connect that to yoga that let's talk about how'd you get started with yoga anyway? Like what? How'd you first get into it? Yeah. So Tremont Williams, cornerback for the Packers, he is a good friend of me when I met him when I was here.

18:21 So, you know, when I'm playing football and, you know, me coming here, those are the first professional athletes I met. So, you know, people wonder why, like, oh, he's from Chicago. Well, he's a Packer fan, you know, But it's like I never met any professional athletes before I came to college. And these were the first people who same thing, show me love, show me support. They would come to my games. They would give me tickets to their games. I came with them outside of, you know, football. They will let me, you know, come over, have a meal, you know? So, yeah, he introduced me to yoga. And you know how I play basketball is very fast twitch, athletic, strong, quick. Rash jumping out the gym, yeah.

19:02 Jumping out the gym just aggressive, you know, so it's like so to see, you know, to see these guys who tackle players, you know, Sid Hut boom smash into guys. It's like a car crash, every place seeing injuries to see them do yoga and the common place that it put them in how how it keeps them durable and flexible. Because I had a few injuries in college which kept us away from the tournament. I would say, you know, ankle injuries. And they introduced me to that. And I'll never forget, you know, at the end, it's called Shavasana, where you lay down and you just empty your mind, you know, empty your body, you don't move and you just breathe.

19:43 I'll never forget that serenity that I felt in that moment. And I was like, I have, I just from there, I was chasing yoga, chasing that, chasing that serenity again and again and, and that peace and, you know, so that's how I got in and, you know, being then I learned to be more conscious and I know how to connect my breath. And you know, the breath is the difference between life and death. You know, once you don't have the breath, no more you're going. So, you know, yoga is magic. Once you were able to connect that amount of presence and focus into the inner. It makes everything outside, you know in the universe that much more better for you.

20:24 So you know, yoga is great as I don't know if I don't meant to get that deep, but yoga is my probably my favorite thing in the world is is magic. I tell people that's all I can tell them to explain it. 100% yeah, that's what we do. We get, I try to get deep as fast as we can because that's where real life is, man. But I can't agree more. I started I started yoga during COVID. I had, I didn't do, I didn't do yoga until then. So I was probably in my early 30s at that time, 3334, something like that. And I just did it. So I hurt my ankle playing basketball. And that happened a little after I started yoga, actually. So I'll leave that for later. But I just did it as like something to keep my body active during COVID when I was like in the house sitting on my computer all day working.

21:09 And I had that same thing where I didn't really expect the mental benefits. And when they came, I was like, OK, this is staying in my life forever. And I I love meditation too. I don't have that in as ingrained in my practice as I do yoga. Like I do yoga a few times a week, but I love meditating too. But for some reason I don't find the same amount of time for that. Do you meditate at all? Yeah, yeah, I meditate a lot. So a meditation is, is one of the most powerful things I got out of yoga too. So, you know, I try to meditate every day. But like you say, I think that's something we all have to be more intentional about. For sure. Me, I, I, I, I meditate pretty much every day. I love the Mindspot app. It helps me pretty much sleep.

21:53 So I usually meditate and zone out, go to sleep. But yeah, meditation is something that I always go to, especially when I, you know, need the answers, you know, like need to figure something out. I'm like, all right, I need to just, you know, meditate and it helps me a lot, helps clear the brain cutter. And I promise it just gives me whatever I need. It's probably wounded up because I thinking about so many things, you know, social media we flashing through it makes us, you know, just hyperactive is able to help me get the the silence I need, the stillness I need to figure, you know, out what I really need. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's when when I was doing it the most, that's when I actually implemented in my life.

22:36 The best is right before I would fall asleep, I would wake up so many times. So I use Headspace and there's some other apps that ended up being better. But at that time I was using Headspace so many times I woke up with my phone on my chest just. Yeah, knocks you out too. Yeah, yeah, Life changing, man, Life changing. It's, I don't know that even just altering your mindset towards things that you want is powerful. And maybe I, I, maybe I always did that, but I never realized the power of it till I started like being intentional about, OK, I'm going to, I'm going to focus my energy in this place. And then I started a manifestation journal that was crazy when I would manifest stuff in like 2 months later, would like come to life and I'd be like, OK, there's, there's something to this stuff.

23:25 And I don't know, it's just I've never, I've never finished a yoga session and wished I had been doing something else that means something. Yeah, it's the best. It's, you know, cheating your mind, your body, your spirit, you know, like, like they said before you even start class, like, you know, the, the instructors usually like, all right, put your phone away, you know, give this time to yourself. Everything is going to still be there when you come back, You know, because we like say we so attached to a lot of things and you know, output, you know, our energy is always exerted and we never give that time to ourselves, which is we should give more time to ourselves. You know, it's, it's what yoga makes you realize, like you said, once you give that one hour, you're like, man, maybe I should have, you know, yet another yoga Class A couple more this week, you know, so that's, that's that's how I usually feel. It's crazy because we were talking about the yoga before today.

24:19 So even I was like, man, I got a set at 6:30, but how does it mean at 5:30? So Dang it, you know, I can't make it. So, you know, it always, you know, leave you with that feeling. But but yeah, to your other point about just manifestation, you know, journaling, you know, like yoga, you know, guided me to those things, you know, reading books, you know, learning how to invest and, you know, be healthier and learn about mental health and how I could be better. And healing journey, you know, is it awakens you to so many things. So, you know, that's a big part of my life too, you know, law of attraction, you know, being positive, you know, like the power of your subconscious mind, you know, rewiring that. And, you know, those are the things that helped me have a lot of success in my career and just, you know, continuing to figure out my journey on, you know, my greatness and, you know, figuring out, you know, more and more success. But those things are are are vital. You know, I think those things, you know, still put a pen to paper these days rather than just texting or, you know, the notes app, which I love.

25:34 I use notes my I've will the notes app, but just still putting that pen to paper, you know, affirmation. Those things are are very, very, you know, powerful and attracting things. Like you say, once that happens, you you see the serendipity of like, oh, wow, this happened and what a coincidence or how In Sync things get. Are you like, oh, now I'm starting to see this more like you say, in two months. Oh, it is happening. I'm getting closer and closer. So those things are things that I really believe in, you know, just the power of, like you say, putting out energy into the universe, you know, even everything you speak and you know, it will revolve right back into you. I think that's that's definitely how the world works. Yeah.

26:21 Yeah, I believe that. Same. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I saw you. You. You had some books on your Instagram story this morning. Oh yeah. You loaded up. Yeah. So that's what it was like last night. Same thing. I was meditating before I went to sleep. I could barely sleep and I'm like, all right, let me download some books, Let me just do this, do this, do this, you know, so my, my brain is just always racing, especially like, yeah, when I get into that meditative state. So yeah, download it some new books. I'm excited because, you know, it's also, yeah, like what you feed your mind. So I'm like always big on. I spend a lot of time travelling. I spend a lot of time in season, you know, by myself. I spend a lot of time on the road Rd. games when I'm not with my family, I spend a lot of time in the car.

27:05 So I'm like, you know, I used to, well, I still love music, you know, and it's different types of music, classical music, things that could, you know, tap into your the powers of the brain. However, I realize like, OK, we hear our favorite song, right? That three minute song, we listen to it 1000 times in our life. That's 3000 minutes that we heard the same words, the same lyrics. I could have read maybe 25 books, you know, So audio books is something that's big for me. Obviously hear podcasts ain't listening to podcasts now. So when I'm driving, you know, I just pop on the audio books now. Listen, you know, learn, get smarter, get smarter.

27:45 I'm just, I'm really a nerd at heart. I'm really a nerd at heart. Just trying to see how I could just get better and better each and every day. But, you know, yeah, grab some audio books. I like to read a lot and just get smarter and just learn as much as I can and pass the information down. Yeah. The definition of nerd is relative, man. I think it's cool as hell. But yeah, my wife will watch the same movie, man. My wife will watch the same movie. Like there's a couple of the go to. Is that like it played on like daytime cable that if she gets some time, especially before we had a kid, she worked like super early hours. So I would come home from work and she'd be watching like what are some of the go to? The one with Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler that were they?

28:26 She can't remember. She wakes up a I can't remember that one. The help. She watch the help all the time. And I'm like, darling, don't you at least want to watch a new movie? But it's weird. People find comfort in different places. And that's her comfort, that revolving door when really she's not watching the movie. She that's her style of meditation, you know. Yeah. You mentioned some nonprofits before and we talked about gun violence a little bit. Isn't that a nonprofit you are involved with now? Run. Yeah, it's when I found it. So I thought so, you know, so when I had the movie, it comes out and like I said, I got the reaction from people that was like, oh man, how can I help? And I'm like, you know, honestly, I'm blessed with the talent.

29:09 You know, helping others is my passion. It's my true passion, honestly, more than basketball. But basketball is my talent that God gave me and my way of expressing that and reaching a lot of people. But just like I said, helping make the world a better place coming from my circumstances and being able to get out of that and travel the world, I want that same thing for people that don't have a talent OR don't have the education. I don't have the support or they're stuck, you know, just stuck in life trying to figure it out. So I was like, I want to create a not-for-profit to, you know, if people want to help, then we could help, you know, find a way to do that. So yeah, I create the Free 10 Foundation, helping people that's been affected by gun violence, drugs, incarceration and poverty, you know, just other, other crises, just being underprivileged, you know, because that was my environment, that was my mental, that was my mindset, that was my mind frame survival, you know, you know, I only want to go down that because we talk about, you know, just staying positive. But yeah, that was that was the atmosphere. So, you know, just finding ways to, you know, change a couple lives.

30:28 Hopefully, you know, I've been able to change a lot. So yeah, I founded that in 2018 and we've been doing great. So it's been, it's been amazing. It's been amazing. That's awesome. When did you, when did you identify that? When did you identify that supporting people was the core value that you wanted to do? Do you remember? Yeah, I mean, I always see my dad. So my dad, he was the vice president of a gym growing up and you know, our family was like the family people was like, man, I wish you know, I had a mom and dad. I wish, you know, my dad was just such has such a good character. You know, take took in everybody, like taking care of everybody, just being a father figures to everybody who wants to talk, who needs support. You know, for single moms, they need a dad to step in and go to teach a parent conference, to go to the school and check on the kids, discipline kids, you know, just, you know, keep us on a straight path.

31:24 My dad was there for, you know, everybody. So just really watching him navigate life in the midst of, you know, taking care of all of us, taking care of home. And, you know, really, it was honestly a sacrifice. You know, it was, I know it was his passion, his purpose, you know, so it became my passion and purpose. But you know, it's also was a sacrifice. You know, I fly. He sacrificed to lie from himself, you know, sacrifice from the family and just sacrifice his life, you know, to, to help so many others. So which makes me think this is the first time I had this, this thought. Like, I feel like I'm the same way, you know, I feel like I, you know, could have probably given more time to my son and my kids and given so much more to my career. But I'm always trying to champion everyone, you know, And, you know, I think it's, you know, my purpose, my passion, the right thing to do.

32:19 And, you know, I feel like it's going to be more relative down the line. Or maybe I just, you know, on the outside looking in, I can't tell. But, you know, it's going to be the the legacy and impact going forward as I continue to build that out. But but yeah, man, my dad sacrificed to help so many people live my life bigger than his own. So that was just always he was like hero, you know, a role model and like, you know, Superman, like it's always someone that we want to be like, I want to put on a costume and save the world like him. So, you know, that's, you know, that's kind of what I, you know, created and, you know, been trying to live out with just different projects.

33:04 And like I said, the not-for-profit and just sports business, you know, me having camps and things like that and just, you know, just everyday really just educate myself to educate others. Yeah, I think it's such an important identification. That's why I asked. Like I've like, I've thought about this a lot because I went through a similar awareness thing. I guess we're like, I identified I was at a point in my career, like I'm a marketer. I worked in radio. That was what I was doing. But then like seemingly overnight, like one night, I realized like, yeah, it's cool. Like I'm helping people sell a bunch of fish fries and cars and stuff, but I don't really care that much.

33:46 I like, I wanted to support people. And I was in my mid 20s at that time probably. And I hadn't really thought about life that way. And I wonder, I wonder if it's more widespread than people are able to make it come to life. Because once I, once I like identified that I couldn't keep working, doing what I was doing. Like I closed my marketing agency, I left my job. I was like, OK, I need to fulfill my, I need to fill my bucket. I need to fulfill my mission in life. And what that is is helping people. And since that has happened, I've had a bunch of cool stuff happen in life. And I feel like that's one of my missions of the podcast is I want to like shine a positive light on humanity.

34:28 And just like the more one hour conversations that people will take the time to listen to with all kinds of different people, I think the better off society will be. But like, I wonder if there's a bunch of people that don't know that that's their outlet, don't know that if they supported people more, they'd be more content when everybody's rushing around and posting the the prettiest pic on Instagram and all that stuff. I don't know, Not really a question in there, but it's just something I've thought of a lot. Yeah, yeah, that's a great thought. And that and that goes back to me speaking on sacrifice. You know, people just want to, you know, make as much money as they can or, you know, work as hard as they can. And you know, that's what I'm saying.

35:10 So to see my dad like sacrifice that or like you say, you sacrifice your job or your career, whatever it was to inspire be a storyteller in a sense, you know, have an impact is filling yourself up, but creating a legacy or, you know, making the world a better place. He's like you said, one person hated story or a story or a podcast, one of the hour segments and they follow that, you know, that that would make the next person, next person, next person a better place by the lives they affecting the lives you affect by telling someone's story, telling your story and just being an outlet that sacrifice because we can always keep it in and just like the world we live in today, like say we want to hoard everything, keep everything for ourselves. Don't even want to give other people information and you know, don't want to have nobody else make money. I want it all.

36:07 You know, you know that sometimes the world we live in. So someone like Kobe, you know who his biggest quote was, like, you know, it's about how the Mama mentality and like it's about how many people I can inspire, how many lives I inspire. You know, even with him with winning Oscar, becoming a book writer and a storyteller and all the things that he plan to do, rest in peace to him. He was one of my. He's always one of my favourite and he's for sure one of my favourites, probably top five in life. But yeah, he's someone that, you know, that I look up to because when he was done, he was just, you know, inspiring. And it was a great transition to see from when he was just so obsessed with just being great in basketball and then started being obsessive with his family, his kids and telling the story, you know, So that's why I like love storytelling in this aspect of, you know, a media, how he was getting into media and, you know, like having a movie and one day want to write a book and things like that.

37:06 So the more we share and taking that sacrifice to share is, you know, something that means that means a lot to me. And I'll finish by saying, like, even now, you know, it's October, the NBA started, you know, everybody's playing basketball right now. But I sacrifice sometimes, you know, to be with my kids or to, you know, be able to tell these stories and, you know, be the general manager to spend time and help these young athletes and help those college athletes. And I could just be going to make money like every other athlete or, you know, be so locked in on my greatness. That's why I say I feel like sometimes I've sacrificed, but I believe, you know, legacy is where I'm at in life and having an impact of, you know, even like I say, if it just changed one life, somebody that was going down the wrong road and they go down the right Rd., it's going to be a blessing in the end. Absolutely.

37:58 Even if someone person starts doing yoga because he was talking about it like that could change their life. Yeah. Yeah, man, Absolutely. You just got your jersey retired and you wore 24 at GB, right? Yeah. OK, I did. That's what I said. Kobe. Kobe, when he was talking about that last week, he was a big influence on me. Sure. Yeah, Kobe's my favorite NBA player too, Like, but I think we're we're pretty close to the same age. I think you might be a little bit younger than me, but like Kobe was, he transcended a lot of things. Like he was bigger than life in a in a lot of ways. And it was cool seeing that like the development you were just talking about of like, I think some of that's especially from a high like the top echelon professional athletes like to get there. They live 8 and break breathe that every single day. And then once you get towards the end, it is you got to start shifting your mindset about what's different. But it's been interesting to see like some another one of my favorites is Aaron Rodgers.

38:59 I love Aaron Rodgers. It's been interesting to see him do that even before he retired, like the past five years. Aaron Rodgers is way different than 10 years ago Aaron Rodgers. And I feel like, I mean, and you can run down the list of the greats, you know, like Tiger the same way. And part of it is maturation, but part of it is also shifting the mindset because of like to get to that level, you have to be so hyper focused. But then it's realizing the stuff we were just talking about. It's realizing what actually matters to you and finding fulfilment in things other than that, right? Is that what you're getting at? Yeah, yeah, definitely another person who's my favorite, you know, and I'm not saying this in in a negative light, but because, you know, who knows anyone personal situation or what goes on with life, but, you know, I could say there's all these people you have certain perspectives and opinions on, right.

39:59 So Aaron Rodgers, it's cool to see him, like you said, get married, go through his healing journey, whatever it looks like, you know, tell people, hey, I'm. I don't care how you judge me or your opinions. I'm just focused on doing what I'm doing. So I'm excited, you know, that he's having success this year. I'm excited that he's healthy on the field and off the field. You know, he has a wife now and things like that. I'm excited that he play Green Bay this weekend. Just relatively, you know, right now, however, there's someone else who's, you know, all the people, Tiger, all these people are my favorite and Tom Brady. But those two, like you say, they sacrificed so much that they lost their families to being obsessive, you know, which is, you know, no, no judgement of character to them, no responsibility to them because maybe the people that they had around them couldn't handle it. You know, the lifestyle, the, the, you know, the sacrifices we talked about that it would take to be with someone like that, you know, and we don't know what they deal with personally. But however, you know, like we talk about fulfilment, you know, someone like LeBron that look like, look at he's a great example because like he still has his family, you know, his kid in the NBA, like, you know, he kind of seems like the perfect, you know what he does like perfect person, which is hard to come by.

41:21 You know, nobody's perfect. But it's hard to see examples like that because you know, with this game, you do have to be extreme, like you said, if you want to be at the highest levels and want to succeed. So it's like you use it's no balance on that tightrope, you know, so and everyone can handle it. So you know, but true fulfillment takes sacrifice. You know, those are things that we know, we know we, you know, allude to. So you know, everybody's journey different. Everything is, you know, nothing, No, nothing's perfect. Nobody's perfect, however, but you want to try to get it is right as much as much as you can. I don't know why sacrifice has been such a big word today, but sacrifice is a big part of it. You know, it's, it's hard though. It's, it's very hard to, you know, sacrifice you want to do or, you know, some people make sacrifice for the team or, you know, make sacrifice for yourself or for your kids. It's no right answers to this, to this game of life, you know, but.

42:18 That's the hard thing. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a great journey. So I like to learn from everyone though. Yeah, that's a great call out about Brown and that's that's a good like, what would you call it That's a good like dichotomy or disparity in life about like it seems like everyone is just waiting for someone like that to mess up. It's like, why don't you just root for the dude, you know, like, like champion that guy for doing that, Like, because you're right that it's hard. It's hard for every single person. It's hard to like you mentioned your, your parents staying married earlier. It's hard to stay married to somebody for 40 years. Like it takes a lot of work and courage and openness and dialogue and all that stuff.

43:02 And that's not even taking the rest of life stuff, dude. Like, I don't know, I just like when people get championed, you know, and it's it's awesome and always being a Kobe guy. That's kind of a funny thing. Like there was always like, you know, you were Kobe person or you're a LeBron person kind of for a while. But still, even though I was always like Kobe was the top of my mountain. Like you see that kind of how do you tear that down? How do you, how would like what kind of there's no like there's no missing spot in that armor. And so that's a great call out, man. Yeah, yeah, it's one of my favorite. Yeah. So what is like, what is hooping look like for you today?

43:42 You're still playing. Right. Yeah, but still looks good. I mean, I would just. So I played six years abroad and I played three years in America. So last year, my 10th year was my first year back abroad. I played in Europe, but we won a title actually. So Speaking of champions, I won a championship my first year back abroad and and. Where was that at? It was in Poland, Poland, OK, in Warsaw, it's like the fifth biggest city in all of Europe actually. So it was really nice, you know. So this year I'm going to China to play in December. So I got bought myself a little more time, you know, like I said, sacrifice to spend time with my son, my daughter, get to do cool things like, you know, see him off to homecoming this year.

44:28 Are we excited for Halloween this year? I usually miss all of those holidays because I have to sacrifice for the season. I have to go play in, you know, leave my kids sometimes because, you know, now my son's in high school so he don't want to travel with me. He's travelled with me 4 out of my first eight years and live with me, you know, as a single dad. My daughter, she was young so we just held her back in school until she was 6 so she could, you know, come with me for months at a time, come with us. But now she's in school. So, you know, I don't want to have them, you know, bounce around different schools. So even that aspect, they're getting older. So my career is looking different as far as, you know, them not wanting to go with me all the time. But yeah, I get to spend some time with them, get to have Thanksgiving this year.

45:15 Which is probably kind of tough to swallow at times, right when they say I don't know if I want to come down. Yeah, last year was probably my hardest year, I would say, back abroad and when they was like, Dad, I'm not going, they don't want to go on that journey. And you don't sacrifice for me, you know. But you know, they have friends now and, you know, they love being around family and, you know, I'm like, all right, I'll go make this couple months sacrifice for us. But but yeah, it it still looks good. I mean it now it's like, all right, I want to play two to five years more, but who knows? I mean, you know, my son is about to graduate next year. So I mean, if he graduates and I'm just ready to play, I could maybe rock until my daughter gets ready for college.

45:58 So I mean, I still got a lot left. It's just, you know, this year is going to be a big tale of, you know, if I go over and enjoy and have a lot of success, you know, I probably could play for a long time, you know, 31, you know, body is always feeling good. I'm always focused. So yeah. But I'm, I am interested in a lot of other things and interested in, you know, prioritizing other things like being a father. That was always my number one priority. And, you know, being a good family person, a good brother, a good uncle, a friend, Yeah, just, you know, just figuring life out, you know, after basketball. Yeah, do your son or daughter play? They don't.

46:43 My son plays for fun, my daughter, they play sports for fun. But you know, I tell people because I'm not married yet. So I'm like, when I get married, my next son, I'm going to push basketball on, especially with NIL and stuff like, all right, yeah, help me retire early. But my son, you know, his name was Kiefer Junior. I didn't want to put that pressure on him. You know, they good kids. They just, you know, my son is actually going to graduate at 16 because he lived in China with me and was homeschooled. It was a little bit advanced. He lived in Milan with me and went to a great International School and was a little bit advanced. So I came back to America and put him up a grade.

47:24 He was already young for his grade. So he kind of basically moved up of two grades. So yeah, he's pretty much too young to play, you know, at the varsity level. Little bit too skinny, but he's getting tall. But yeah, I didn't, I didn't put sports on them. I felt like I did enough sports for us, for all of us. And, you know, I, I want them to, you know, do what they want to do and do something else. You know, they don't have to play basketball, do sports that I do. So they love it. Cool. But if not, I don't push it on the on the youth at all. Yeah, young first grade. Like Pops, you were young for your grade too. Yeah. So he's, yeah, a year even younger than me, which is crazy. Crazy, Yeah.

48:11 Yeah, it's, that was what my wife noticed. Like she was watching the documentary kind of up and down as she was reading. She's a big reader too. And she noticed like she saw when when you transition to GB, she's like, he looks like a baby. I was like, he's only 17 years old. He is a baby. Yeah, I've taken that same path. I've I never achieved any sports accolades like you have, but sports was always a central piece of my life. Like I was a three sport athlete, something I really cared about and what like when I found out we were having a boy, I remember like thinking about that, I thought about that scenario. Like I had friends who like whose parents did really like push sports on them and my my parents like they don't know anything about sports.

48:55 They're not sports people. It was just something I gravitated towards like naturally, I guess. And I thought that was a pretty easy conclusion to come to that. I'm just like nurturing. My son's name is River. I'm just nurturing whatever like he gravitates towards and right now, like I'll ask him to play catch with the football or shoot some hoops. He's got the the classic little tights hoop that everybody has. And he'll do it for like 30 seconds. But then he's like, let's go play guitar, Dada. I'm like, all right, buddy, yeah, I was like, let's do it, you know? And I think, I don't know, I don't want to say there's a right or wrong way, but if there is a right way, that's probably it, man. Let him mould their path.

49:38 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, most definitely, because it helps my interest too, you know, like my son, like, hey, I want to do this. OK, let's do this. Because I'm always consumed with basketball, you know, like around it, watching it, love it, you know, So I'm always around the youth athletes or, you know, so when he's like Dad, I like creating stuff, music or clothes or let's go do this. You know, like you said, we got the the hoop in the house. You know, he, he likes to play, you know, play football, you know, we throw the football around, go to the beach. You know, he he likes soccer, watching soccer too. You know, I make the fans everything, but it's it's cool, you know, to see their interest, you know, and being able to indulge in that, that helps me, that helps my mind, that expands my mindset too, in my mind frame.

50:26 So in my interest, you know, that expands my interest too, Like I am interested in this. So, you know, it's it's actually, you know, we talked about being fulfilling. It's been fulfilling to know that like they don't have to play basketball. I have to be stressed with, you know, pushing basketball on them and teaching them the game and making sure they're performing well or the pressures of that navigating the pressures of, you know, and being keep for Sykes son or being as good as dad and basketball, you know, so it's it's actually fulfilling that I'll have to do that. Yeah. It takes some of the pressure off, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When did that thing? When did you realize that?

51:06 When did you actually was probably here, if come to think of it, But like, when there. Well, here I'll frame it through the lens of this because it was another one of my favorite scenes in the documentary where there's a dude, it was in a gym. You just got done playing. I can't remember if it was practice or what it was. It wasn't like a formal game, but there was a dude talking with you and he's like, you should go to the NBA. And he was like telling you this. And at the time, like your response seemed like everybody was telling you that at the time, like you didn't you weren't like taking a back bite or anything. You were just kind of like, I know, like when did, when did you realize?

51:50 Because you started the documentary by saying you're just going to go as far as basketball could take you. When did you realize that it was going to take you pretty far is what I'm guess I'm getting at. Yeah. And you know what, what was was what's crazy about that? When people would say that to me, I would. I didn't at the time, I I still didn't believe it, you know, I, I didn't think, you know, I still was kind of oblivious. I'm like, Oh, wow. So I wasn't taking it back, you know, in the back of my mind, you know, I'm like, oh, I do want to be in the NBA. You know, it's a dream. But it's like, like I said, I'm like, I know the realities of making the NBA, you know, going that far. I said that at 16, you know, when the movie comes on. So I always was striving, but I never like believed it.

52:31 So, you know, kind of like taking it with a grain of salt type of thing is how I felt. You know, I'm like, oh, wow, they talking about this. That's that's crazy. But the chance that it happened is, you know, so I'm just like, you know, not focused on it, you know? So that was my thing. I would say, yeah. I think like my junior year when, you know, and it's it's crazy because people ask my favorite game. So I think that Wisconsin game. And I finally, I'm having a moment of I'm realizing that, yeah, I think that's the game where I realized like, Dang, you know, I am, you know, really good. Like all of these players, Frank Kaminsky, Andrew Hayes, who just signed with the Sons and Sam Decker, Ben Brush, Trey Jackson, dad playing NB.

53:15 I'm like, wow, this you know, this team is amazing. Like but I'm able to hold my own and compete with these guys. Like and really felt felt like it was natural, like it was it was coming to me, you know, so it wasn't like I was forcing or like playing out of my mind or like it's a one off. I'm like, man, I can handle this, you know. So I would say that's probably when I probably first realized like, you know, maybe I can't, you know, go far with this game. But two things. It's funny because I don't know when you was thinking, I was thinking something else. We've go go back to my son. So when I realized that he didn't want to play basketball was around that time too, like in college when I was here, you know, when I was like, all right, I got a 5:00 AM practice, 6:00 AM And like, I'm single dad basically. So I'm dragging him to the gym.

54:05 He's still asleep, throwing him in the car. When I start to realize he's like, I, I don't want to do that. You know, I, maybe I pushed it on him too, too early. Like at 4 years old, five years old was I left college and turned pro as a rookie. Like I'm like, all right now I'm, I'm back at home, I'm training, you know, same thing, like, all right, 5:00 AM. We got to go to the gym. 6:00 AM or we got to go back to the gym at 12. We got to go back at 4. He's like, Dad, I'm not about to keep doing this. I just want to be a kid. That's when I realized he didn't want to play. So I don't know. I just had that thought of. I realized when I knew my son probably didn't want to play. But. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that's when I, you know, my junior years when I start to realize, like, all right, if I take this serious, I could have a chance.

54:47 Yeah. That's funny, man. That's the thing that I mean, that thing a lot of people don't think about. A lot of people aspire to do those things, but they don't aspire to do the stuff you were just talking about. The people that truly get great at stuff are the ones that like aspire to wake up at 5:00 in the morning to get better. It's not like, it's not like wanting to be at the top of the mountain is enough. Wanting to do the grind that gets you to the top of the mountain is enough. And that's such a like, it's great that your son came to that conclusion because he's going to find something someday that he wants to do the grind for, to get great at. And that's why I think the other, the other way doesn't work, man, because like external pressure doesn't make that happen.

55:32 External pressure doesn't make somebody want to wake up at 5:00 in the morning and go shoot 1000 jumpers or do plyometrics or whatever. Love of something makes you want to do it. So the earlier the better. I kind of lived in a jaded thing. Like my main goal was to play college football. And I'm so glad now it didn't happen for so many reasons. I'm so glad it didn't happen at the time. You know, as you transition and kind of start to come to the realization that like, I didn't get the offers that I wanted, so I was going to go a different direction at the time. It's like, is that a bummer? You know, like, do I feel weird about it? But now some of that serendipity of life, man, they in some ways you're kind of you're pushed in the direction that you should go.

56:19 And I didn't have that love at that time. I didn't love waking up at 5:00 in the morning to do all that stuff. Yeah. It's like you said, that is that internal drive. If you don't, you don't have that. No, it could be tough because you know, like not even just sports, you know, like all of these things, it's about, you know, it could take a mental toll on you to you know, it could take a toll on you if you striving for something that doesn't happen or you like you saying it doesn't work out. Those things are tough. So you, you, you really want to go with the guys guides of life where life is guiding you to or the universe is guiding you to. I like to say, God, I don't know why, you know, people feel about that all the time on the on the show, but just where where you're you're guided to.

57:06 So it's like, you know, because I've seen situation where, you know, people have in a drive or like make themselves out as in a drive or like you said, people have external pressure from their parents and this and that. And then it it doesn't work out or, you know, that's, you know, has a takes a mental toll on them because, you know, they were forcing it rather than being guided, you know, So it's like, and that's what anything, you know, not even just sports, like you said, you was guided to this. But what if somebody like, Oh, I want to be a podcaster just to get famous or for whatever reasons that they think they were they're in it for superficially or, you know, or the benefits they're trying to get out of it, but they don't have the true inner drive, you know, and the true passion or purpose, you know, what we talking about for it. And, you know, it could take a, you know, beat them down mentally and have them stuck or, you know, it's hard to have be resilient from that.

58:03 So, yeah, like I think, you know, whatever happened for you is for you is what I believe. So I always try to never force this flow. Bruce Lee, one of my favorite man, like water, just flow, you know, flow of life. Like that's something that keeps me, you know, honestly focused because I'm like, all right, if it's, if it's aligned with what I'm doing, then it's supposed to work. If not, then it doesn't, you know, So, you know, that's big, especially in these times nowadays where, you know, it's so much to focus on that the we feel like we could do. We're just finding those, you know, just those signs, you know, like, all right, this supposed to be for me, you know, I think that's what's best. Yeah, isn't awesome when you find them too? Yeah, like when they show up, it's, it just feels. And this is getting pretty whimsical, but when they show up, it feels right.

59:01 And a lot of times we're good at tricking ourselves into things that feel right, but maybe we are forcing it a little bit. But when something truly shows up that was like, seems guided, you know, it's, it's almost like the world stops spinning in a way. It's almost like you realize, I, I love the feeling. It's weird to say I love the feeling of feeling powerless. And sometimes when those things show up, you feel completely powerless. And I don't know, that helps me sleep at night because then it, it takes the pressure out of me sometimes because it's like, OK, I'm going to wake up and I'm going to put in effort. I'm going to, you know, address whatever I do with passion. I'm going to try to do everything the best of my ability. But at the same time, it's OK to wait for something to show up in the mailbox too, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

59:49 Because like you said, those, those moments and, you know, I've been feeling powerless and in a sense feeling in power because you like, this happened without force, effort or this wasn't me, you know, this, this wasn't me, you know, it was like what happened for me, you know what I'm saying? What happened to me, you know? So it was like, yeah, I do love those moments. And like, say, in the same sense, you feel powerless. But then when you same thing, like Dang, this is empowerment like because you like you said, in those moments when you, you know, breathe and be present, it's like it empowers you. Like wow, like you say this is real, life is real. You know, these things can't happen for me and to me, you know, definitely. Yeah, the universe has a strange power, man.

1:00:33 This is an awesome conversation. I appreciate you coming out and taking some time, Keeper. It was great to get to know you, man. Yeah, I appreciate you too. It was definitely great. You know, great questions, great concepts, great ideas that this was one of my gets deeper, more intuitive, expensive conversations that I've had. That's the best compliment media. That's the best compliment I can get. That's what I that's what I aim for with everything I do. That's the I'm glad. I'm glad you recognize and I appreciate you. Like, oh, basketball in your career, this is this, you know, we just chilling, talking and just, you know, learning each other and learning perspective, which is which is which is powerful.

1:01:14 Yeah, that's what I tell a lot of people when they come on. Like I get a bunch of people that won't reach out and like it's always through a cool lens. Like I want to come talk about my nonprofit. I want to come talk about my business. I want to come talk about this. Like, you can come out and talk, but we'll spend maybe 5 minutes talking about what you actually do. And we're going to spend the rest of the time talking about being a human and life and why you do what you do and all the drivers behind it. Because that's to me, that's what matters, man. To me, it's, it crosses all of these invisible boundaries that people like to put between each other. They don't exist. When you talk through that lens, when you talk through what drives you, motivates you, makes you passionate, makes you happy, makes you sad, all of that stuff, doing yoga, all of it, dude, it's, it's awesome. So I appreciate that compliment more than you know, that's. Good.

1:02:08 It makes all relatable because we're all humans and like you say, it's all makeshift, like we all could make wake up and realise all right, I want to make my mind up or, you know, make myself be successful in whatever way that is, you know, So it's it's encouraging. This is encouraging for sure for hopefully more people too. So. Yeah, Appreciate it. Appreciate you key friend. Thanks.