Kathy Larkin - Sports, Broadcast Career, Sexuality, and Mortality - Ep. #3

0:17 You're welcome. So this is an old did you do this while you were on the air? Well, pretty much. I usually ate because, you know, on the morning show it was so early and I got up and had coffee like or stopped at a gas station on the way and got coffee. So at work, somebody always brought in bakery, a listener, one of the other staff that came in early. We always had crap in there. Always. It was amazing. I didn't weigh 300 pounds, quite frankly. I mean, really, I'm. I'm lucky. I have some good metabolism. I think, I think you probably move a little too much for that. Well, that could be what do you mean? So good to see you though. Oh, good to see you too.

0:59 Is you're so clean shaven, I know. Are you staying that way nowadays? I have been, yeah. I don't know why. But yeah, I've been clean shaven pretty regularly now for a few months. Feels good. I like it. I do too. On me. I've been clean shaven too for a while, you know. As you get older, you'll find you know Samantha will begin to grow the hair. Not anytime soon, but you know after menopause. And you'll start to lose even more. Pretty soon your legs will be. You won't have to shave them. They'll just be almost hairless. So we switch places? Yeah, well, yeah, in some ways the hairy, the hairy way men lose it and women grow it, and not in places they want to.

1:44 Yeah, the hand were dealt actually was looking at beard oil one day at Target. Just, I thought maybe instead of getting rid of it all, I should just embrace work with it and embrace it, shine it up a little. You always told me that. You always told me that you were jealous of the ability to, like, be able to grow a beard and cut a beard. I've loved beards and mustaches since I was a little kid. I don't know why my dad didn't have one when he tried to grow one. He looked real, like, kind of swarthy or, I don't know, He just didn't look good. He looked like kind of scary cuz he had a dark complexion and for some reason and kind of what they used to call a Ruddy complexion, which yeah, kind of like reddish tones. And really, his beard grew really fast, his whiskers so he all.

2:32 But when he grew a beard, he sort of looked like a gorilla with a beard. So he stayed away. Girls don't have beards, but he for some reason looked like 1. I mean, but if a gorilla did have a beard, yeah, if a gorilla had a beard, he'd look like my dad. God bless him. You know, just kidding around. Dad, I love you. You know, I do Anyway. But yeah, it makes you look really young. I've been told. I think it makes me look thinner. Yeah. I was actually gonna ask you if you lost weight. Yeah, I've because I can see your, you can see your cheekbones. And you really have a nice nice fine features. I thank you.

3:16 I've never really noticed before. Yeah, I I went. I was telling Samantha I giggled about it. There was probably no this was a month or two ago. There was like a weak span where like 3 people asked me if I had lost weight and it was probably the first time each of those people had saw me since I had been clean shaven for a while. So I guess it's just got to stick around. Sorry. Take it. Take it when you get them. That's awesome. You brought a doughnut? Well. Immediately before this doughnut I had ice cream. So my other favorite. I'm just double sugaring it and still people are asking if I'm looking at that. So what's your favorite ice cream? Right now we're on this kick of from Fresh Thyme. Actually I know you like Fresh Thyme. The brand is, I think it's called Hudsonville and it is chocolate.

4:05 Brownie cookie dough and the trifecta. Yeah, it's Immaculate. Yeah, it's really good. Chocolate brownie cookie dough. And it's nice because the the brownies and the cookie dough aren't too like chalky. You know, sometimes you get those ice creams that they like. Yeah, yeah, Chalky. Yes, this one is great. The chocolate ice cream is nice and like, really wispy and kind of thin. Oh, it's good. It's like 1 I'd like to stir up, like stir it all up together, kind of make it a malt texture and then sort of I like to do that. Let it melt a little bit and it's spoonfuls of almost shake. Yeah, salivating. I've actually kind of leaned a little away from ice cream these days, just because sometimes dairy just doesn't always set well with me. So I've been into frozen yogurts that really now tastes like ice cream.

4:56 Not like the kind they first came out with 20 years ago when you were in the cradle, but the kind that you probably, you know, got spoon fed them a little bit once in a while. And it's called, I think it's got black cherries in it. It's black cherry something, frozen yogurt and it's really good. Although I always like the ones with chocolate and cookie dough and caramel and and all that in them too. There's really not an ice cream or an ice cream like thing. I I still eat ice cream, but not on a regular basis. Like we've been eating drumsticks at our house lately. Yeah, the sugar cone, the ice cream. And now they put caramel in the middle or fudge in the middle of the ice cream and then really nice chocolate and then nuts on the top.

5:38 Yeah, now I'm really getting hungry. So, like, Smart Cow, then. Do you guys ever go to Smart Cow? No, no. If I'm going to eat ice cream, I eat ice cream. Because smart cows in yogurt, right? Yeah, maybe it is. But it's supposed to be less. I mean, it's supposed to be good for you, I think. Probably. Whatever. Yeah. I just don't. I like it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I just don't go because like, they have a perfect like business model. Like they have two, two different size. I was confused. Yes, Now I know what you're talking about. Smart cow. Yes, I'm smart cow. I got you. Got you. So smart cow, they've got two the different size cups.

6:21 And like I do too. Isn't that weird? Yeah, something in common. Nobody's symmetric, sorry. They and by the time you get through just the ice cream wall, then you get your toppings and you have like $11.00 worth of ice cream. It's They get you every single time. It's good though. Yeah, yeah. What about Gelato? You ever do Gelato? No, not really. Everybody says it's delicious and yummy and I just every time I look at it and look at the texture of it, I just kind of go, I don't know, yeah, I'm kind of. I'm very sensory and that just looks like it might feel funny in my mouth for some reason. I'll try it one day, but I just haven't. I've been satisfied with my frozen yogurt and ice cream, so I haven't felt the need to try another branch of that whole thing.

7:08 But I will someday just for you. All right. And then you'll think of me. I will. Yes, I will. You probably like I'm that's like a probably a prerequisite to POST. Retirement, right? It's like mid afternoon ice cream socials. Like, isn't that a sort of, you know what? No, actually, this is a thing. Mid afternoon coffee with like pie or a cookie or donut. I don't often do, don't. I don't have Donuts at home, but I do sometimes have pie or a brownie. So it's about 2:33 because I eat lunch. Sometimes about 11:30, you know, by noon for sure because I eat breakfast at like 6:30 so I can't it to make it to dinner time. I got to have a mid afternoon snack and a little touch of this to get me through so I can watch Netflix all night and Hulu and prime, you know, till the wee hours. I know we lie.

8:01 We got to fly in the zone. That's a new one too. It must have came in probably an Iranian spy. They're in here. We got a lot of hot takes in here that they're looking for good 10 boy. Yeah, I know. You're a big, you're a big show watcher. What's been on your list? What was I watching last night? Oh, we I have. We got two free or three free days of is it Showtime? I think so. I just started watching a show called Is it Shy? Shy, Shy. It's CHI. It's takes place in Chicago. Yeah it was. It's it's really like this inner city streets of Chicago kind of show, you know, with the language and the culture and everything.

8:47 So I got about 2 1/2 episodes in and I'm kind of hooked. So. And there's like five seasons. So it's like, oh, crap, this is exactly what they want you to do. Start watching something, get hooked, and then you got to buy it at least for a month to finish off your, you know, the series that you started. So I probably will. Yeah. I was just, I was thinking, I'm justifying it by saying, well, it's going to drop Hulu anyway and pick up Netflix again so I could watch quarterback because I dropped Netflix before the summer just for a switch, you know, because there's stuff on Hulu I wanted to see. And now I'm kind of running through Hulu a little bit and nothing's jumping out at me anymore. So I still go back to my old standby is like, you know, Everybody Loves Raymond King.

9:32 I still go back to those some nights when I really need to get to sleep. So I put those on because I've seen Everybody Loves Raymond. I've seen every episode at least 10 times at least. I can, like most guys can recite the lines with them. I don't know why, but I've always found guys can do that better than women. And I don't know what it is like. Guys can recite movie lines like line for line. They'll say to you each other, hey, hit it out of the ballpark and the other guy goes, yeah, in the fourth zone. They both laugh. And you're like, what? You know, Like, haven't you ever seen Ghostbusters? You know? And I'm like, yeah, but I don't know the lines. But why is that?

10:16 It must be a guy thing. I never hear women do it. Not very often, especially not very often. Especially cult comedy classics. Yeah, they like. You will never go golfing with a middle-aged group of dudes and not here, 19. Caddyshack. Sure. Oh, absolutely. You're out in the golf course. Yeah, it just lends itself to it. And I stand there and and some of the lines are funny without seeing the movie. But I did see that movie. But again, I don't remember it like that. I remembered it was funny, you know. But, you know, you've probably watched it more than how many times, too, to be able to memorize the lines. Like I said, I've seen all the Raymond episodes at least 10 times each, and that's how I've been able to memorize some of the lines, but not.

11:02 So I'm wondering, do guys all watch movies that much, like, repeat them? And I'm thinking, yeah, they actually watch replays of, like, football games, so of course they do. Well, actually, you know, I before I came here, I was watching a little bit just because I was waiting for the time to come, and I was kind of in between. I watched a little bit of the Viking Seahawks game from last night. Yeah, yeah, just the very beginning. And I thought, what am I doing? Packers preseason game tonight. It's kind of a kind of a big one, right? As big as preseason gets, how do you how are you feeling about, you know we've had conversations about sports before so many so.

11:42 I have talked about sports for hours and hours. This will be a big part of what we talked about today. Yeah, How are you feeling about the season going in? Like honestly feeling like, what's your gut tell you? My gut says we're probably gonna be just under 500, something like that. I really, really want Jordan love to do well. God, I hope he does. I'm with you there. I just, I haven't seen anything yet to point that direction. I hope and I guess somebody has, but not us. Right, but. You know, there's a there's a lot of egos in the NFL and I think we've learned that over the past couple years more than yeah, there was a guy that was here that seemed to have a pretty healthy one. Can't think of his name right now. Or yeah, and among many, among many, we'll. Talk about that too, because we we have different thoughts on Aaron.

12:38 But I think that's a it's it'll be interesting to see how that unfolds if it's the ego from the front office. That said, this is our guy because we picked him in the first round. Yep. Yeah, or if there's truly something that we haven't seen. Because you never know. I mean, you don't know what to take for full credit from the media now anyway. Like you never know. It came from a PR machines, right? Because we don't have, you know, inside sources that are at practice every day and reporting back to us, you know, except for the people on the radio or whatever, the reporters that are in there. But again, they only see so much, right? And tonight we'll only see so much. Yeah, what do you think? Three drives tonight, maybe.

13:21 Maybe. Yeah. You know, I've been listening a lot to sports radio because that's kind of radio I like to listen to. Besides your podcast, of course. Absolutely, #1I, How was that? Did I say it right? Did I say it how he told me to? Yeah. That's what you told me to say, right? Yeah. Something okay. I knew you checked some. Notes. That's right. They're under the table. What was I gonna say? I forgot, oh, they said that, you know, you know, they've asked coaches, why do you, why do you want these joint practices? Because Lefleur was the first coach to bring that into Green Bay. They've never done that before, ever. And and then the preseason games and what they explained, and it kind of made sense to me was is that the joint practices, the veterans actually get a lot of reps.

14:11 They're actually, you know, getting 20 to 30 reps during a joint practice when they go against each other. But in a preseason game, most of the veterans aren't getting a lot of reps because those games are to see who's going to make the team, you know, I mean, they know who's going to be on the team. So those guys, they don't want to get hurt, but they have to practice anyway. And in the joint practices, they get to let it get a little bit lathered up and, you know, let a little bit of that out finally. So I thought that kind of made sense. You know, you know what you got in the veterans, but you just, you got to see these guys under the big lights. You know, some guys are good practice players and they don't do so well in a game, you know, I mean, just like players who are great players and whatever sport they're in, but they don't. It doesn't translate to coaching. Not quite the same, but kind of like that great practice player, but just doesn't have the juice to, or maybe even the mental juice to put it together in a in a game. Yeah, there's different levels, people. Or a great regular season player that just can't make the jump into a great postseason player.

15:12 Yeah, I can think of one. I think it was the same one we were talking about earlier. Oh, that is. You know, I think probably right now you and I are closer on Aaron Rodgers and we've probably ever been. That's tough. That's tough. But it's certainly he. He had performances in the postseason that he could win, but there there are certainly times when it he didn't play up to, you know, his obvious ability. I've come around a little bit on him. Yeah, I have. I think just because, you know, taking stock of my own life and stepping back and leaving the working world and making a big change, I think I can kind of see what was happening there with him. You know, like he probably should have been gone sooner rather than later.

15:54 And there wouldn't have been all the bitterness on both sides because you know, everybody, no matter how good they are or whatever, I mean look at even if we have terms on the presidency, you know, I mean things come to fruition and they just, you know, at some point they they plateau and then they go like that. I mean, I think it was just I respect him more as a person. I wished he would have handled some things a little differently, but I think the Packers also could have handled, definitely handled things differently. So I think it's a more of a 5050 thing there and the best thing that happened could have. It's funny you say that because I'm sure we're at it or the closest we've ever been because I've I've come a little bit of the to the other way. OK because of exactly what you just said. You know, I, I mean, Aaron Rodgers was the the top of the mountain for me.

16:40 I know, I know. And. You I completely agree with you that I always I I always had the argument that Aaron Rodgers was a very effective leader and and I kind of I'll overlook some things that weren't effective leadership from his perspective. But I believe they happened because of what you're saying. I I think there was. That divorce should have happened earlier. There was too much animosity there that there was a. There was too much underlying emotion for either side to do what was right. And the reason it worked out for Aaron is because he's such a stick it in your face guy that they said, oh okay, you're going to draft my replacement.

17:24 I'm going to do every single thing I can to make you look like an idiot MVP twice. But that's not leading A-Team, you know? So I can you can you can understand more what happened when you take a step back from it. I'm super happy for him. Did you Hard Knocks, do you have HBO at all? No, I don't. Now I'm like, I've never wanted to watch that. And then I don't want to be that person that watches it. Just because as I read and some Facebook posts, it should be called Hard Knocks with Aaron Rodgers first. You know, like because it was like it was all about Aaron Rodgers. They said forget the Hard Knocks part. Let's just call it Aaron Rodgers Hard Knocks. It was. It was Aaron Rodgers physical footage. And then it was other players talking about how cool it was to play with Aaron Rodgers.

18:08 Which really. Well, how do you get away from? He's a legend, right? He's a legend. I mean, that's face it. I mean, that's how it's going to be. If it was Tom Brady, Yeah, Which it probably was at one time. Didn't they do his? I mean, don't most of the teams have done it now right or not? I'm sure they never didn't. Really. No, probably not. Belichick probably wouldn't. He probably wouldn't have allowed that first or something. Yeah, yeah. It would be a distraction and he doesn't allow that. Yeah, and think about even that relationship, that relationship came. To a a head where I'm sure there were more they're just better at keeping stuff internal. But I'm there was some rocky times between Brady and Belichick you know there were so it was time to go. I wish for both parties involved it would have happened a little bit earlier because to to have the last couple years we did with was kind of frustrating, you know like they didn't give him the tools and and I firmly believe like like look at he went there he he's already taken a pay cut. And all the things we wanted him to do here. And he went to mini camp like he went to. Yeah, that was kind of a that hurt a little bit. But again, that's a, you know, that's the biggest FU that you can have.

19:18 Can I say that? That's the big OK good. That's the biggest FU that you can have towards the Packers right there. Like see if you would have just given me these things. And although we did give him things, let's not forget that we did give him a lot about what he wanted. They did make concessions, but they kind of had to as well. I mean, that's what happens when you're working with a guy who's a legend and a Hall of Famer. What are you going to do? Ignore everything he asked for? You can't. You can't. You have to give in. I mean, they all have done that, no matter who they are, you know, But, but yeah, I'm. I'm like, I think he's going to have a good year. Do I think he's going to make it to the Super Bowl? I really don't. There's just, there's just too many talented quarterbacks. But again, maybe somebody gets hurt. Maybe.

20:01 Maybe Pat Mahomes gets hurt. Maybe I can't even think of all their names out. Maybe somebody else gets. Him Josh Allen? Yeah, Josh Allen is the other one, right? There's a lot of good quarterbacks in there. Already strained his calf that I look too bad. But yeah, it's gonna be another fascinating year. I just, I'm just excited to have kind of get back to just being a football team. Yeah, having the Green Bay Packers now and not always. It's just Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Rodgers and I think Aaron Rodgers for giving us a Super Bowl. That's great. It was awesome because I can still Lord it over all those Viking fans, especially my family, you know, every time they get smart ago. And how many Super Bowls have you been? How many Super Bowls have you seen your team win? I've seen my team win two of them, yeah, in my lifetime.

20:43 Yeah, Dan and I were talking earlier about how, like when the Lions win, it's kind of like that's good. Never. Good for you Lions. But when the Vikings win? Good. No. And now this year, it's going to be both. Because I mean, sounds like Detroit could be, sounds like our division, really anything could happen. Anybody could win it. Be interesting to see what Fields does. His development. Lions are explosive on offense. It's going to be fun here. Yeah, I think so, too. Fun. Yeah, what about? I know you're a big Brewer watcher. Are you you watching this year? Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been kind of frustrating, you know, because they too are right on the edge of something. And again, the Brewers never really go for it as far as stolen out the money and tried to get the players they need. They needed bats.

21:30 So they went and got two of them. Like kind of like getting like people that bat like 220, you know, It's like what? I mean, we needed a first baseman, so they had to get get one. I think Santana is the one they picked up. But I don't know. I mean, we're going to have all our pitchers back now and that'll help. But still, I mean, you can win with pitching, but you still have to have some, some batters, some people that can hit, hit in the run, some with Rbi's. We just don't have enough of that happening. We get on base, we just don't get into home plate. It's so hard, then what to translate pitching success into the postseason because, like, inevitably there's those couple games that your starters go for innings and then you got to go to the bullpen early.

22:19 And then you're behind the 8 ball, and that's happened a few times like that. Yeah, getting all creative with the bullpen and, you know, wearing them out. And then, you know, one week you're starting pitchers are awesome and the bullpen sucks and they lose the game. The next week the starting pitchers are awesome. Then we can't score, you know, and the bullpen is good. But then we can't. We can't. Every time the Brewers score less than four runs, they lose almost every single time. It's just a thing this year. But I still. I love watching the games for the most part. It's kind of like Packer games when they get, when they frustrate me, I get up and walk away from baseball. Because come on, it's like every day. You can't sit there and watch all games every day. Otherwise you're weird.

23:02 Yes. Or then I'm like, then I might as well just put it on my cap and gain 200 pounds and sit in my chair. And take book at home. Yep, Yep. And take book at home. Was that was that an error or what would you call that? A base hit or an error? Yeah. I'm on. I'm currently on a It's not the Brewers fault so I won't call it a Brewer boycott, but I've only watched 1 Brewer game. What's going on with? You the whole Bally sports thing. Oh, I know. It drives me insane. Yeah, I know. Absolutely insane. I know I have to switch my streamers every year so I can watch the game on Bally Sports. And now Bally Sports is, you know, you know, I have to say I never thought he would, but I like it when the games are on YouTube TV.

23:45 I mean, I'm sorry, Apple, Apple TV. They have every. I think they've had like 3 Brewers games now on Apple TV. Yeah. And their camera work and they're just the just the way it looks. So it's better to play for. I think they are. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. They have some decent announcing staff there. You know, I mean, from last year when they did it to this year, I've noticed it. It's better. And actually as soon as you turn on the game, you're like, oh wow, look at that. It just looks crisper. The camera shots are much better, they're on top of their, you know, the replays and stuff quicker. So I don't know, maybe that's where it's going to end up. And they have all the resources that throw at it too. Yeah, that's fascinating, cuz what's I think it's like 13 MLB teams that were with Bally, right? Right.

24:33 And now already ones. How many are off the list? One for sure. Where did they lose the contract? Somewhere they did. I can't think of what team it was, but they don't have them on anymore. Yeah, I have no idea. All I know the Brewers wish they could get out of their contract. You know that it's it's been such a shit show like. The The price is way too high. Oh yeah, I totally agree. Way too high. And then right when it started, I thought about doing it. None of their tech worked. Like I couldn't get the like I literally the the The week after it went live, I tried to download the ballet sports app and and set it up on my TV. The app wouldn't work. Like I couldn't watch the game. So I was like, I'm gonna give you $20 and every month and it's, yeah, not gonna and not count on seeing the game, yeah. Right, so.

25:19 I I just took a moral stand. Good for you. Yeah. Good for. You. Well, I'm hoping that Bally's out. Quite honestly, I just, I'd love someone else to take over. I mean, they're people. I think whoever does take over, I think the Bally, a lot of the Bally people will get hired because they're not going to come. Even if it was Apple TV, they're not going to come into every market and bring and hire all new people to do all this stuff anyway. It's just that they'll have probably better equipment, better resources and use some of the same people. More defined leadership, yeah. Yeah, hopefully an IT team that can make their stuff work. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Have there been like, are the tech issues figured out? Like, is it pretty reliable? Well, I don't watch it on the app. We actually switch to DIRECTV so we can watch.

26:04 Yeah, we stop. Yeah. Don't come hang a dishes everything you are in. We stop our YouTube, and then we picked up YouTube a few years ago just for the Brewers, and then we ended up really liking it. You know, of course, now everybody's prices are going up, but we stop YouTube. We pick up DIRECTV for six months during the baseball season. Then we stop that. Go back to YouTube. And now YouTube has Sunday Ticket. They've got Sunday Ticket too. If you, if you. I don't know more sports, I don't know if I don't know if I need that. Not sure how that'll go over at home is. Chris, as big of a sports fan as you are, she is actually. Yeah. Maybe not quite as quite as fanatical as I am about it, but she loves sports as much as I do. Yeah.

26:48 Yeah, We'll be glued tonight. We'll be watching the game at six, and then it's 710 because it'll probably be by then, the after halftime, third quarter. Who cares who's playing this channel? We'll go to the. Yep, we'll go to the baseball game and start watching that. So yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, it's a. That's awesome to be able to then. I mean, that keeps the conversations in the household going too. Like, we always have something to talk about. Yeah, yeah. You know, when? Explain about yellow. Yeah, Yep, Yes, exactly. Dang it. God, what the hell is wrong with these guys? Yeah, yeah, we hear lots of there's lots of shouting from our sun porch during Brewers games lately. So what? What else says what?

27:30 What else Is retirement encompassed for you since you stopped? Because it's what it's good coming up on it? No, it's over a year now, over a year. June 1st was a year. Yeah, I can't believe it. Probably it just a it flew by. It's it really bit. It sucked. You know, I just do what I want when I want, how I want. It's really, really overrated. Not, You know, it's funny because when I run into people that haven't seen for a while, they always say, well, how do you like retirement? Like really serious, Like, well, kind of like, well, how do you like retirement? And I'll go, it's freaking awesome. It's like the best thing that's ever happened to me. What do you mean how? What's not to like? I don't get And they say we know some people don't like it and I'm like, well, then something's wrong with them. You know, they got bigger problems. And then what?

28:15 Retirement brought. They had a problem before retirement. If they don't like retirement, they need to figure that out, you know. That's why I knew it was going to be successful for you. We had some conversations before you retired and your frame of mind about it going into it was just in such a place of, like, positivity and love. Like you were waiting. Yeah. Oh, I was. I kind of knew it was time. When you'll know too. And down the way, down the line, when it's time, you just know when it's time. I mean, you've made career changes and you knew it was time. And sometimes, you know, like we kind of talked about with Aaron Rodgers, sometimes you were ready, but it just doesn't happen on our time. You got to kind of wait for certain things to fall into place, but you're ready. When they do, you're like, yes, here we go, boom, just like that. Yeah, but.

28:59 I always found it. And then, like, when people would ask you like, what are you gonna do? And you're gonna pretty much your answer was, what does it matter? Yeah, I'm gonna do whatever I want. It's gonna be great. Yeah. Everyone wants to know if you have like this big major plan for your retirement, you're gonna travel, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that. And I'm like, I don't know, I got to be retired for a while first, you know, just let me feel it and get into it for a while. And that's what I did. I took about five months and then I got a couple volunteer gigs that I do. I one of them is I'm a companion sitter for unity Hospice, which I really, really dig and I get a lot out of. It's really, really. That's such your style too. I guarantee you're so good at it. Well, I hope I am. Thank you. But I really do enjoy it.

29:41 I it's like a privilege and honor to be a part of the end of someone's life on Earth, you know? I mean it's like I sit there and I'm like, wow, I'm I'm involved in this. I didn't know this person before, but now I'm a part of their end of life and trying to I keep that always in mind to try to make sure it's as my part of it is as good as it can be or whatever they need from me. I try to give to them, you know. And then I was, up until about a week ago, working as a volunteer ombudsman for the Board on Aging and Longterm Care, which means ombudsman. I'd go into nursing homes, longterm care units, you know, facilities all over here in Brown County and visit with the residents. And just to make sure, take notes, make sure you know, like, does it look clean?

30:28 Does it smell where it shouldn't smell? Holding people accountable, Yeah. And then I don't. And that's the best part was I'm a volunteer. I never had to do anything about it. I just reported to someone and then that was it. Well, both those things together started to get to be a little too much because I was spending a lot of time because some of my Hospice people are also in longterm care. So it got to be kind of tough and I decided I wanted to give one of them up and I decided the Hospice one meant a little more to me than the other because Hospice I've wanted to do since my my parents both died of cancer and both used Hospice. So it was something I always wanted to do because it was so helpful to our family.

31:11 But now what I just did, which I'm very excited about, is I just signed up with the Life Lifelong Learners Institute through UW Green Bay and I you can take for $150.00 if you're 55 or over. I think it is. You can take up to 10 or 15 classes. Yeah, over semester. So I signed up for 10. Now not all of them are classes that meet over and over. Some of them are like a one off tour or like hikes and county parks stuff like that. But I did take one class. You'll be surprised by this. Brad called current affairs. Yeah, who would have thought? Who would have thought I'd do that? We're going to be robust.

31:53 Discussion in the class and it said something like that robust. What was the word? Respectful of each other Discussions, which will be hard for me, but I'm up for it. No, not really. Not really. You're really respectful. You can be forceful and respectful at the same time. That's true. You're right. You're right. So that starts in September. All the different things I'm gonna take tours of like Civil Hop, school, curative. I used to work at Civil Hop, but it's so different now. I mean, it's been added on to and I'm taking hikes through county parks on three different occasions. I'm going to go to like Maribel Caves one day with people.

32:34 I mean, there's all these things you can choose from. It's really cool. And then in spring semester you can choose from classes again. So yeah, I didn't really know that much about it until I started talking to other retirees and they talked about it and like, what is that? And they told me and I was like, I wanna do that, Absolutely. So I'm gonna do Hospice for my heart and my soul, and I'm gonna do lifelong learning for my brain and the rest of it. So I can still go out and be somewhere and still be able to carry on conversations with people. Yeah, as opposed? Well, you melt into the people because your brain is a little mushy after a while, yeah. Well, and that's two pretty heavy things too, right?

33:15 But that you know, that's such a natural progression because that probably scratches some of the itch that some of your career passions lived in like you were. You were a career helper in several different ways. So like being able to do that of your own volition and time and energy. Making your decisions such A and that's it, that's you hit it. That's it. It's like on your time and in your way, you know with Hospice, it's such a great volunteer job, not only because it's enriching and fulfilling, but I can do it on my time. I mean the people that I see, I have two of them right now. I can, I have to, you know, I don't have to. I mean, but that's the requirement to see each of them once a week.

33:57 But it doesn't have to be at a certain time or a certain day. I go when I can go, you know, so I don't have to. I don't have any set routine where I have to be here every Monday at 2:00 because that's one thing I wanted to avoid at all costs. Now, I did sign up for a class where I have to be there for two hours every other Tuesday, But now after a year, over a year being retired, I'm not going to mind that so much, right? Yeah. Yeah, you got me on the calendar. I felt pretty important. You. Yeah. You've been on there for a while. And big letters too. I should have took a picture of it. I what's in my phone of course, but I have it on. We have one in our kitchen still that hangs on the wall so that we both can see each other's stuff.

34:39 And it's actually takes up the whole day because I wrote it so big. So if Chris had anything going on, she couldn't fit it in there. Because I wrote podcast at Brad's home 130 and really Big Letters takes up the whole square and put a star little star by it. I love it. We do the same. I think everybody has the fridge calendar right now. Yeah. I don't know. I grew up with it. It's just something about it. I don't know. It's comforting, I guess. Yeah. In the volunteer Hospice thing, I have to assume like a different range of outcomes comes from that, right? Like what if the how have the interactions differed? Have you had anybody that like? Was completely aloof and didn't want you there or the complete opposite, and ended up like kindred spirits. Probably a little of both, Yeah.

35:26 I had a woman who who was just on the other side of becoming nonverbal, who when I first she was in a longterm care unit, and I can't say too many details about the people, but she didn't really want me to be there. So you know what? The first two times I came, I did most of the talking and just tried to keep it low key. And sooner or later she we, she started warming up to me and we we got to be really pretty close. And because her family she had a couple kids but or or so and I like that's probably I shouldn't even say that they couldn't be there as much as maybe she would have liked because they were working, you know.

36:12 But she became nonverbal. But we were able then to communicate just with our eyes and I could kind of know like what she was thinking. So I'd say, do you want me to do this? Would you like me to do that? Is this what you want? Would you like me to, you know tickle your neck. Would you like me to rub your arm. Would you like me to comb your hair? You know stuff like that. So that was really cool. And I've also had a couple people that, you know, had pretty severe dementia. And those are the really challenging ones. But I really enjoy it because in any given moment you can be you, you can be somebody different to them because some of them will go from they, you know, 95 years old thinking they're waiting for their mom and dad to pick them up from wherever they think they are to talking about their daughter, that they know they have a daughter. So it goes.

37:10 And then sometimes, like, not knowing who I am, but they recognize my face because I've come so long. Now the one guy I have this, we're going into seven months. So and I just, you know, this one's going to that. That one's going to get me a little bit. I know that. That's the hardest part of this is you do my next question, you do get my very first person I only saw once and then that was it. But after that, I've had some longer term. The people I'm seeing now, I've seen one for six months and the other for seven. So those two are going to be a little tougher on me. You know, that's the tough part of it. I mean, there's only one outcome here. We we're all going to have the same one, right? Yeah. Nobody gets out alive. But I don't know.

37:52 I just, you know, if there's if there's ever something, if anybody's listening that have has ever thought about it and you don't have to be retired to do it, it could be something. There's all kinds of things that Hospice needs help with, but it could be a thing where maybe you do it for someone who only wants someone to visit on a weekend or at night. I mean, you have a young child and all that. Not you, but other people that maybe are looking for a little something that they could do that would make them feel good and would be really super helpful to people going through it. Because everybody that has a, you know, now cancer is affected almost. And it's not just cancer, it's all kinds of illnesses. I mean, congestive heart failure, cancer, Lou Gehrig's disease, all of these Parkinson's, all of this stuff, all. I mean, I've had a little bit of all of these. It's you just need a break.

38:46 The family needs a break. Once in a while you have to get away from it. So you just, it's just a really great thing you can do, even if it's just for an hour that you give this person a break to either go shopping or just go get a cup of coffee, go with a friend, go in the room and take a nap, go down in the basement and cry. Whatever they need to do and can't do, you know, because they're grieving and trying to take care of this person at the same time. But. And by that scenario comes by the time that comes the the hope is gone usually. Yeah, I mean some people actually, they just came out with the study. Some people actually live longer once they get in Hospice.

39:28 You know, usually Hospice is, doctor says you can go into Hospice. When they say a doctor says and signs a sheet of paper that says you chances are it's going to be six months or less. You know that you are, the morbidity is it's coming, you know you're going to die. There's no options, right? But some people have gone up to a year in Hospice, you know, especially some people have gone into Hospice and then gone back to palliative care because they got better, like a little better where they're like, well, I don't, you know, I think we need to put them back into a different program now where they're just getting, you know, care, but they don't need to be in Hospice right now.

40:10 So it's it's real interesting and I think especially people that are lonely and don't have a lot of family, once they get that attention and all the care that they get from Hospice, they do start to improve. It's amazing. The mind is a wild thing, wild thing, just how we respond to not only different scenarios that we find ourselves in, but like the different kind of actions and involvements that come with those and how we like respond to those things differently, even like. You know, you read some of the studies about the like the work that they're doing between psilocybin and dementia and the differences.

40:54 That can be made and stuff it's it's it's too bad that some of that stuff hasn't been able to be explored for a little while just because of that reason. Like how our brain reacts to things that aren't whatever you want to call them that aren't physical or aren't like. Doctoral. Right. Right. That aren't part of our wiring. I mean that we that you can see that are part of it but not the stuff you can see. You know the amygdala and the this and the that in your brain the ponds, the and all the parts I learned in biology one time I can't remember. I don't even know if those, if those are part of that. There might be something else I'm talking about. Maybe that's parts of the kidney, I don't know. But the only.

41:35 Thing I know is from is from the water boy. The medulla oblonga. There you go. Oblongata. That's it. Yep. Yep. That's a pretty important part, actually. Yeah. It's it's, you know, amazing. I mean, it's just, you know, I sit there and this person is going from, you know, 50 years ago to current to 30 years ago to even more years ago. You know, talking about World War 2, talking about this, talking about that and then also kind of being a little bit in today, you know, it's just like wow. But you know, I have to tell you the one thing that I hear over and over and over from all those patients so far has been I, I want to go home.

42:18 Every one of them says I want to go home. You know, and I, you know, I always say you will, you will go home. You're going to go home, I promise you. Because they are, you know, they're going to go to a different home, not the one they lived in, but they are going to go home or somewhere. You know they're not going to be there in that situation forever. They're gonna see what's on the other side of the line. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's probably not surprising, right? It's like it's a I think it's everybody's ultimate sanctuary when it eventually comes our time knocking on the door. You hope that it's in a place that you're comfortable and that's home. Yep. Generally. So that's probably par for the course.

42:58 Yeah, that's heavy stuff. And you can do that for what? Six months? No, don't be. Sorry. Actually about nine months now. I've been doing it nine months. Yep, Yep. It's just, you know, like I had a training and you go through a training and all that because they give you a chance to kind of find out, do you really think this is going to be something that you're going to be comfortable with? So they, you know, you go through a lot of stuff and training and they tell you a lot of things because it's not for everybody, you know? I mean, you can't sit there and burst into tears when you're sitting with someone or you know, and it's it. It takes a lot of patience, especially when you're with the people you know, like when you ask them questions and all they say is, I don't know, you know, because they don't. I don't know.

43:40 What did you do last week? I don't know. You know, what'd you do this morning? Did you eat breakfast? I don't know because they really don't, you know. So you have to really be able to carry on sometimes onesided conversations, you know, but still connecting with the person. So I've been learning a lot. I'm not saying I was really good at it to start. I mean, I've learned a lot and I'm still learning, you know, still learning. It's such a it's it's a thing that I think we're all wired for but not repeatedly right is it's like a place we dig to probably, but they probably reveled in, in your background for somebody that would want to do that just because of the things you've done, you had kind of a step forward. I think it did help me, really when they looked at my application and I got hooked up through to both of those through a volunteer Expo that they had at the rash last October in the new in the new rush, whatever it's called Expo whatever rush.

44:37 Everything's a rush something, you know. Yeah. Did did the Russian sponsor this. It's all right here. It's in the big building by Lambo. No, we're actually gonna bleep that out until they pay the sponsorship fee. Oh, OK. Sorry. No, I'll pay. I'll sponsor this piece of wood right here. Sweet. You can write your name on it that Kathy. How cool of an idea would that be to have everybody that comes in writes their? Name everybody that comes in right on the wall. Wow, I've been here. I'm here during a revelation. That is, I might have to explain. Look at the Big Brain on you today. No, you came over. Notice I said today, Today. Today on the fire. Kidding.

45:17 You know I love you. Yeah, you too. It's so good to see you. You too. But you just look so fresh faced. I like it though. It's OK. But you know I like the beard. So are you gonna grow it for hunting or not? I. Don't know. We'll see. I never did it specifically for hunting, that's true. You never did. You always had beards like off and on. Like one day you'd come in and be there, the next day I'd be finally. At the end of the day, I'd look at you and think, what is different? My God? He shaved his. Beard off, You wanna know what one of the main deciding factors is? Is humidity, surprisingly or not? Because when you shave when it's humid, you get razor burn a lot easier. So it's kind of like a cliche thing that people grow beards in the winter and then shave in the summer. If you noticed, I was always kind of opposite you were. I would be clean shaven in the winter and shaving or not shaving in the summer.

46:05 Yeah, cuz I don't love shaving in the summer cuz it's always humid here like we live in. I don't either. Look at these. Legs, look at those things. I mean, we live in the humid capital of the world and it's like today is. I mean, the dew point today is like 68, even though it's only what, 70 some degrees out. It's cool, but it's still very thick and sticky out there. Yeah, I am not a fan of humidity at all. 00 fan, Yeah, Although I've lived in it all my life. What's that about it? Yeah, I hate it. But I've lived here my entire lifetime, you know, I had plenty of chances to move away, but it really means I really do love it. I love the changing season. You moved.

46:46 Some when you were young, right? My first one was in Blue Earth, MN, my hometown at a little am station. Like you kind of moved around the like, where were your first radio gigs? They were. They weren't here, right? BEW Blue Earth. That's I remember that that that's such an interesting like like motto or like call sign. What do you call that? The station? The Earth so rich the city grows? Is that what they said? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. It's not true, though, is it? Still, the population has gone down quite a bit since Walmart left town. Ooh, Is it still near? Yes, it is. AM 1560, I believe. Okay. Yeah. I can't believe I just remembered that. Wow.

47:27 I think that's it. So that was your first one. That was my first gig. That's where I learned radio. Actually. I never went to radio school. I got a job there as a receptionist after I dropped out of college. Another whole story for another podcast and and I did. I worked as a receptionist. Pretty soon they had an opening on Sunday afternoons on the big band show. Asked me if I'd want to try it. I said sure, I'll give it a try. Did that started. They let me start talking on the air a little bit, lots of mentoring along the way. And then at some point our afternoon drive guy left and to go be a stuntman and they asked if I was interested and I said sure.

48:10 And so that's sort of. And then also during all that time I also had to write news, I had to give news, I had to sell radio ads, I had to do a little bit of everything because you know it's a tiny 3000, you know, 3200 people town, county seat. So that's where the radio station was. You know, I mean I had to read markets, you know, pork bellies, up 24 live cattle, feeder cattle, all of that stuff. I did all of it, a little bit of everything. So I really and I did that for 2 1/2 years. So I really think of that as that was my school. And then from there I went to St. James, MN and had my own morning show at a brand new radio station that they started there. And from there I went to Mason City, IA he. Started at a brand new stick.

48:54 That would be a yeah, it was. Well, the guy was a nut case that owned it, so it was really effed up along the way. I mean, it was a cluster, it really was. But you know, I got paid. So and then the guy who owned the station that I started out of my home hometown, Paul Hedberg, who was a big name in radio in Minnesota, owned stations in Iowa. And he called me up one day and said, hey, I just bought some station in Mason City, IA. Would you be interested? And I so badly wanted to get out of Saint James because of other things that I jumped at it. So I went out to Mason City, IA and worked there 2 1/2 years and and then ended up. It's another story.

49:39 I won't, I don't even want to go into that right now, but I ended up in Green Bay from there. OK, let me just say this. I met someone at a circus that was going through town, and that someone was from this area and ended up bringing a tape of mine to people at Midwest Broadcasting. And they called and said, you know, I came here. So I never visited Green Bay. I just took the job without ever coming here. And then I came to Green Bay in 1986 and that was the end of it. Yeah, I thought for sure I was just going to be a stop along the way because my my goal at that time in radio of course, was to work in a major market because that's what most people want to want to do and.

50:23 Green Bay is a great stepping. It is, I mean for everybody, for TV, you see it all the time. All these TV reporters, the good ones are gone within 345, six months. You know, I had a couple opportunities like in Milwaukee and Chicago, but most of them for like were for like traffic reporting, you know, and I was like, no, I don't want it. I don't want to do that and but I ended up calling Green Bay home and I've been here ever since. Yeah, by the time you came here, your air checks had to be phenomenal. Like I yeah, I, you know, I listened back to him now. And I, if I even have one, I have in the past, listened to old cassettes and I just cringed when I listened to it. But it's too. Far ago, yeah. Yeah, I kind.

51:04 Of got the time they were probably killer. Well, for the time, probably because there weren't a lot of women in radio at that time. There just weren't a lot of them. And any women that were in radio usually got out as soon as they started having kids and that kind of thing. So yeah. Yeah, it definitely is a good old boys club at that time, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. It was, yeah. I had to play the game, yeah, the whole way, the whole way. Even when I was after I was here. I did a little bit too. Yeah, quite a bit. So how did that, how did that work along the way? Like when were you out that whole time? Did everyone know you were gay at that time? And like, well, not in Saint. You know, actually in in Blue Earth, my hometown, they did not.

51:48 There was only certain people that did. I mean, I was not out. I wasn't even accepting of myself at that time. I was still jumping back and forth. Yeah, a little bit. And then once I got to Green Bay in Saint James, I had a girlfriend and a lot of and most people knew about it. It was a small town, too. And it did. I think, you know, it didn't go over well with a lot of people there. And then once I came to Green Bay, I really started to that's when I actually came out to my parents and and everything. So but on the air, everyone at the station knew, you know, who I worked with for the most part. After a while it took a while. You know, I had to go through the whole getting asked out and you know, having to get out of it every time and going out to events with listeners and, you know, saying, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom and then never come back. Why does Kathy never come back when she says she's going to the bathroom and they and the guys would just go, oh dude. Or they'd say Kathy went to the bathroom like 10 minutes ago and they'd say, dude, she's not coming back. Not for you.

52:57 Not coming back for you. So you know, it was hard, I have to say because I did not like and it wasn't like I was pretending anything, but I didn't like not being totally who I was on the air. And that's part of the reason I, it was a little, probably more of a bigger part of the reason I got off radio than anything was I just didn't want to keep pretend, not pretending. I don't even know what to say. Just, you know, like lying by omission kind of, yeah. You know, and and there is actually a lot of people in the in the L GB, TQ community who weren't very happy with me.

53:37 I'd get if I was out at a gay bar, especially in my 30s, people would get after me once in a while and just say, well, we don't listen because, you know, you don't ever say anything about your girlfriend or your your lifestyle and blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like, hey, this is my living. I'm the one I I'm trying to make a living. I have to do what I have to do, you know, to make a living. And, you know, if you were in my shoes, do you know, Are you sure you wouldn't do the same thing, which would always make them think a little bit, but most of them were people that were so out that they probably were out when they got were born, you know, So at that time. But it was hard. I wish if I could go back and do it over, I wished I would have done it differently and I guess just say consequences be damned, you know.

54:21 If I couldn't work in radio because of that, then I would have found something else to do. That's so easy to say, though, when you get to a place of comfort. Well, right, I can see it now. I mean, because I wasn't. I mean, it took me a long time to accept my own gayness, you know, to be okay with it because like, I've always told people who wants to, you know, especially then, but now it's probably even more so. Not just the gays, but people that are trans that are going through all of, like we did 30 years ago or 20 years ago where why would you wake up one day and go, hey, I think I'll be a social pariah and have to hide most of my life and not talk about things like other people do because they might not like me and maybe even maybe physically wanting to hurt me or, you know, leave me out of things. Yeah, that sounds like a great way to spend my lifetime. You know, like I always tell people it is not a choice. Yes, nowadays people can make those kind of choices and do they?

55:18 There's fluidity, there's all this stuff, you know? But then you didn't just say, I think, you know what? You didn't piss me off. I'm going to be gay for maybe a couple months. I mean, yeah, anybody can do that, but it's not how it works. You know, I think I knew I was gay when I was a little kid. I just didn't know what it was. I didn't know what to call it. Actually, as a teenager, I thought I was maybe nutty crazy because of my feelings, because nobody talked about that stuff in a small town in the mid 70s, early 70s. And anytime you heard something about gay people was always very derogatory, you know, like all those dikes, you know, blah, blah, blah.

55:59 And and then I'd see those people and I think, well, I don't look like them. I don't dress like them, so I must not be like them. So what's wrong with me? You know, so it was, it was, it was not a great fun time for the 1st 10 to 15 years when I was coming into it, you know, not that I didn't have fun because I did. I had a lot of fun. But mentally it was a struggle. You know, I think it's, I think it's a lot behind. I really think it's a lot. Not because, well, I've had Melanoma twice, Stage 4 this the last time. And I think my cancer, not only because I was, you know, a redhead and had a predispition towards it, but also because of the stress that I had in my life.

56:41 Because when you're gay or anything different, black, brown, all of it, you know. When you're ever not the societal norm, you walk around with a level of stress. Every single day. Every single day you have a level of stress. Especially when in areas of perceived or potential discomfort where right. You like add that all of that that you just said on top of being like. Ending up in a career where you're a public figure because you're good at it? Absolutely. So that's an added amount. And then on top of being a public figure, you're in a place that's been ruled by the good old boys club.

57:23 Yep. Like, talk about a trifecta of just tough things. Yeah. And you know how I did it? No. I drank a lot. Yeah, I drank a lot. You know, too much, really, at times. And. But it was really what got me through. And I don't advise that as a way to deal with things. Absolutely not. But but yeah, it was. It wasn't real fun. Yeah, Because that's exactly what it was. Because I loved my job and I didn't. I was so afraid of being who I was on the air because especially in southern Minnesota, Northern Iowa, I mean, and then, you know, Brown County, Green Bay, WI, we we know what it's like. I mean, it's not as conservative as it once was, but it's still pretty conservative, you know, I mean, just look at elections and stuff.

58:14 You see, it's still there. It's still, there's a pretty strong conservativism. Conservativism. Wow, I can't even say it that, you know, is there. So yeah, you get a little nervous now. Now I'm at such a point of comfort in my life. Like I am who I am, who I am, you know, and it wants my spinach. But I, you know, I don't care what anybody thinks about me, my anything. I mean, there's a, you know, once I think you turn 50, you start getting that where you're like, you know who you are, you know what you like, You know what you don't like. You know that time now is becoming less than more. So you go, you know what? This is me.

58:56 You know, like the TV show, This Is Us. This is me. You don't have to like me. You don't. Because you know what? I don't have to like you either. And we don't have to spend time together, you know, I mean, yeah, when you're at work, you have to spend time with certain people, but you just come. I came to this natural point of comfort as I got older and I think more selfconfident to, you know, it comes with if you have any selfesteem issues at all. That carries over into so many things. You know, I wasn't very good at relationships for a really long time and that a lot of it was really my own was me. Well, finding your person changes that perspective a lot because it makes that comfort come out. And now, I mean, you and Chris have over 20 years together. Yeah, 20 will be 24, yeah, 24 years. Can't even believe it.

59:43 Yeah, time flies, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I met her when I was 15, obviously. So I mean, you know. Well that's, I was going to say that earlier when you said you had to be, what did you say the the over 55 was the thing for the UWGB thing I was going to say, well they must have made an exception. You should have. I would have come over there and kissed you. But yeah, finding it, finding your person like that changes everything. Dynamic too, because yeah. It's so much easier to just not throw caution to the wind or that, but like just. Be comfortable with who you are and because you have someone you know is gonna love you no matter what, absolutely you know who knows all of you and it still wants to be with you. They.

1:00:32 Already know your batshit crazy and they're just stick around. So it's awesome. Yeah, it is. Because it's a it's a huge comfort thing. Yeah, it is. Because, I mean, I didn't meet the love of my life till I was 39 years old. I tried real hard to go before that. Every relationship. I thought this is it, this is the one you know, which was the problem, you know, because I grew up in again. I'm a small town girl. All I ever wanted was to meet someone get married or not, but have a life together with someone and just live the white picket fence. That's what I all I ever wanted. You know I'm no different than anybody else really that way. I just, you know, I remember as a little girl when I play with other kids in that and we'd talk about getting married someday and all that. And I'd always say, yeah, I'm going to get married and I'm going to have three kids and I'm going to be a school teacher and all this and that.

1:01:21 And then they'd always say they other girls would go, yeah, my husband's going to have blonde hair and he's going to look like, you know, Ken or whoever. Johnny W, you know, for those of you who don't know, that was a cowboy toy from really long ago. Look it up. It's really cool, really stiff. But I would always say, they say, well, what's your husband going to look like? And I'd go, I don't know, because I could never pictured that part of my thing, ever. Even as a teenager as I pictured my life. I never saw the husband, you know, which I, you know. I know why. But at the time it was like, I didn't. It just wasn't there, you know, ever. Like. You said as a part of where it wasn't dialogue that you had heard or it wasn't things that you were aware of.

1:02:05 It's just kind of the unknown. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it to me it was like, yeah, it's genetic. It was born in there. And you know what? Seems like every family. Who says, oh, we don't have any gay people in our family. I would like, oh, I beg to differ, I pretty sure you do. You just don't know it for some reason. Probably because they're not comfortable telling you or feel, you know, like they can't. I tell it to people all the time. You know, I didn't have too many people I was comfortable telling, not even my parents for a while, but they actually were wonderful. My whole family was super supportive. They just said you're our daughter, we love you. My brother and sister said you're our sister, we love you.

1:02:47 Nothing's changed, you know? And it was true, cuz nothing did change. Yeah, just who I brought home. Yeah, you know, that's all. And it's great you said that it's usually, they're usually your family get togethers are usually pretty rambunctious. Yeah, it's probably. It's a good thing it was Chris, cuz she could like, take it all in. Yeah, she and they all fell in love with her because of that, you know, She was just so even Keel didn't get riled up about anything they'd say or do, just kind of, you know, Yeah, she, I don't know how she does it. My family is all kind of like me. We get together and we all talk at the same time, but we all answer each other too, because we for some reason can hear what each other is saying. And all the all the partners of each one of us all like sit together and just shake their heads, like, how did we end up with these people?

1:03:39 Yeah. So Green Bay was then obviously the end of your radio journey. What that 20? Let's see, 20 years total. But I think in Green Bay 86 to 2000 is 16 years, No 14. Sure, here. So that's, like, the longest run. Yeah. Yep, Yep. Of anything I ever did. Well, not now, because now I've been out of radio for 20 years. I've been out longer now than I was in radio, actually. Yeah. And then was it just the, was it 2 stations in the Green Bay area? Well, actually the first one I worked at was a country station, little AM country station that doesn't exist anymore called WGEE, which now has a call letters. I think W it's still it's 1360 AM. I don't know what they're W something. And then it was Star 98, which went through different name changes over the years.

1:04:35 You know, every time a new consultant came in, they called it something different. But it was 98.5. FM was there for quite a few years and worked with Doug Kaufman, who was my morning partner. Then he went over to the sports station WDUZ that was owned at that time by Laird Broadcasting. But then Cumulus bought all that out. So when that happened, I worked with a couple other people. It just there wasn't the chemistry. So I ended up going back to Midwest. I did, yeah. And then Doug and I, after I left and went back to Midwest and did my own morning show on a light station there. We ended up being reunited again about three years later. And then that's, that's where I finished my career.

1:05:18 So Doug and I worked together two different times. Yeah, it was cool. We just were lucky. We just, we had the chemistry, you know, It just worked. And Doug was very supportive of me and who I was and very protective of it. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. And that so then leading up to the end of that, you know talking about making your transition kind of similar to what I did, you were returning learner as an adult and then completely changed paths. Civil Hop was your first job post radio, right? Yep. Yep. I went back to school at NWTC and got a associate's degree as a Speech language Pathologist assistant. And then the DPI would not give that position licensure. There's lots of reasons for it, but I was able to get a job at Civil Hop because of that degree that I had, because so many kids there are, you know, have speech language therapy, you know, challenges.

1:06:14 So I went to Civil Hop, fell in love with it, just loved it there. The staff, the students, I never, I didn't know I had that propensity to work with special needs populations, like, until I did. And I just loved it. I mean, I probably would have stayed there for my whole career, but I did need to make more money because I was, you know, a late, late, you know, degree getter and all that. Nobody gets rich in radio. No. I didn't even have a. They didn't even have Iras or 401 KS until I was like 32. I didn't have any of that. I spent all my money and I, you know, it was great, but not great now.

1:06:56 But well, now it is. But anyway, so I worked there for about 8 or 9 years I believe. And then during that time I knew like okay, I had great benefits there because I actually work for SISA through the county. I had great benefits. But the hourly pages it just wasn't going to, I would had to work till it was 70 and I just didn't want to do that. So I went back to UW GB to get my bachelor's degree finished and got that. And you know, people said what's your degree in psychology and human development? And then of course everybody said what are you going to do with that? And I said whatever I want, you know, so. And that's what happened. I got a job as a case manager for disadvantaged youth down in Madison or Madison, sorry, Manitowoc, through a company out of Madison.

1:07:46 And I worked at the job Center for about a year. And then there was a job opening in the accommodations or special or the disabilities disability services department at NWTC and Long story short, got hired there, worked there 2 1/2 years. There was a cutback at the college, one of the last ones they had, and two people from student services had to be let go And last in, first out, myself and another person from the counseling department who had been there for quite a while, a lot longer than I had been there. So but fortunately in the same meeting that they were telling me this, they also said here's 3 openings that we have that we'd like you to apply for. And I looked them over and Care services was one of them and I love that department and I knew of our boss and I knew people in there had become friends of mine. And so Long story short you know, I again I say that a lot. Long story short, I got and I'm never short. I'm never short with my stories.

1:08:50 That's what's so stupid about it. I always say long story, Long story short, not I'm going to go on and on about it. I got hired and work there for 6-7 years I think in that department and then the pandemic happened and I wasn't planning on retiring when I did, but everything changed. Everything I when we came back after it, it just wasn't the same feel that we had before we went in. The numbers were down as far as like people in camp. Not that numbers are down, I mean they are everywhere. But people weren't taking as many class, there weren't as many students on campus because a lot of people then were now taking classes from home, you know, and working from home part of the time.

1:09:33 So there wasn't this quite the, what I want to say, energy on campus that I really thrived on just wasn't quite the same for me and I just realized I wasn't enjoying it as much as I had pre pandemic. So from I went from thinking I'm going to work till I'm 66 to, you know, a week after I turned 62, I retired just like that. Forwarded that decision. I did. I did, yeah. It wasn't really my plan until the pandemic, like I said, it changed it for me. OK yeah. I just started thinking, I don't know if I want to do this like this. OK, this isn't really kind of what I signed up for. That part I didn't know about South. How long was that transition period? Like how long from the time where you thought maybe retirement is an option till you said, Yep, I'm retiring probably about four months.

1:10:23 Yeah, pretty quick because my partner Chris was already retired. So that sort of pitched in long too. Yeah, I won't pretend it didn't because you know, I knew I was going to give. I knew that I would give her at least a year to be retired without me around. And you know, just because she had a high high, stressful, you know, management type positions all through her career. And so she needed to then the pandemic for her to change how she was doing her job. And she just decided there was some changes at her work. And she was like, I'm, I just don't want to go through all of the stuff again. And I said retire. So she did. And I let her have a a little over a year or so, year and a half almost.

1:11:05 And and you know, when someone you come home and dinner's made every night, that's great. But after a while it'd be more great to be home, you know, preparing the dinner yourself because you weren't working all day. You know, the shine sort of wore off and and of course that was part of it. Just that then, you know, because if one person's retired and you're not after a while, this person wants to do this stuff and go here and do this and you're holding up the show over here. Well, I only have 5 vacation days and I can use for that. I can only use this many and we'll take your sick days. Oh, you can only take so many. Then you got to have a doctor's note. You know, it's just, yeah, it starts to get a little bit wonky. And you are kind of at a like, in addition to being at a point in life where you're comfortable in your own skin, you're also at a point like some of the stuff you've been through with the Melanoma and things like that, where at least from an outward perspective of mine looks like you don't.

1:12:05 You're not at a place where you take those minutes for granted, so that was also a huge part of it, yes. When, you know your partner's at home and she's retired and you're thinking I could be spending these hours with her as opposed to working, that has to weigh in on it, too. It did. Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. You know, I really should have. That was probably more than anything, was my health. And we'd be lying if it wasn't Clark too. Well, yeah. I mean, you have a dog like Clark. I mean, you want to be there with him, you know, make sure he's not ripping up the house while your partner who's retired is in the garage all day making furniture. Like, what about the dog? Somebody's got to pay attention to the dog. I guess I'll have to retire. You said you're the you're the Clark disciplinarian of the household, right?

1:12:47 Or no, you're no, Chris is the disciplinarian. You're the one that lets Clark get away with everything. I'm the one that feeds Clark like this. So how was your day? Yeah. Really. Oh. From the table. Yeah, I know big no no. And I know better. But he looks at me, he looks at me and I just oh, you're so cute, baby. You're starving to death. Yeah, starving doesn't have an ounce of meat left. You need some donut because that's good for you. Yeah, Bad. Oh, man. Yeah. So. Well, sure. I mean, my mortality stared me in the face. You know, I got told I had maybe 6 to 18 months at one point.

1:13:30 So I was like, oh, wow, okay, okay. All right, now what? You know, I mean, I started, you know, making some plans and writing things down. And luckily I got into a clinical trial that obviously worked really well for me and had a great surgeon and vascular surgeon who got this complicated messed up tumor out of my body without too much damage, you know, And now I'll be, it'll be 10 years this November. Yeah. So it was a clinical trial that you were lucky enough to be involved in. Yeah. And it worked for me. I know they don't use that treatment anymore, but it, you know, obviously worked well for me. They have even better ones now. So I don't even part of me is like if I got cancer back, I just look at it as like a chronic illness now, like, you know, they'll be new treatments. And there are for Melanoma, they've made great strides. Now the only thing that would mess it up is if it was in your brain or something.

1:14:24 That's a pretty tough one to, you know, overcome, but you know, they they just can keep extending. It's just I look at it as a chronic illness where they could just keep extending my life and extending my life and extending my life. So I've already had a lifetime more than some people do have had already, you know, So I don't worry about it at all anymore. Is that possibility something they tell you about? Like, is it something they told you then? Like, are you at more of a propensity to have it again or something? Sure, Yep. Yep. Like your odds or the percentage chances of getting it back again, you know, or this or that. But I just quit worrying about it. Only the fact that I know life can change in an instant. Like, truly.

1:15:08 So that's why too, I thought, do I wanna work till I'm 66 and then all of a sudden be unhealthy or find out I have cancer, I'm gonna die in three months, then I'm really gonna be ticked off. And I was like, no, that's not what I want. That's not how I want my story to end, you know? And that's a good friend of both of ours that just happened to but. In some ways, I think I in some ways, I think that's how he may have wanted it. Absolutely. Because he wanted, he loved working so much and teaching and all that, so much that, you know, I think he probably was almost forced by family and everybody to like, you got to quit and you go, yeah, you got to kind of think about it. And then as soon as he makes up his mind, he's going to do it.

1:15:50 He basically died before he hit his retirement date even. Yeah, yeah. I just, you know, for him. I think I tell myself that was OK. And then I think, well, I had a conversation with him about it actually on the phone, and he was OK with it. He was, yeah, he was OK with it. He met it head on and he was OK with it. And I said, I totally get it. Good for you, you know. Just make sure you keep yourself comfortable. Unsurprisingly, almost right. Right. Oh yeah. He he was such a moving person because of the because of that almost attitude. That attitude that he had, that it's unsurprising that he met that thing face to face. And seemingly within a week he came at me with an adage that was just like, you know, unbelievable.

1:16:36 Like it's like, Oh my goodness, you know, like only you could think of that. And a week after someone told you you're like you're dying, you're dying. Yeah, only you would come to me and say that. Yeah, you know, yeah, he was from, he was just a remarkable person. And I feel like, yeah, he came into everyone's life that he came into for a reason. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I'll never I'll never forget he the one time it was joking. At the time, it was probably maybe a year and a half before he found out the bad news that he was dying and stuff. He kind of joked to me one time. He said, you know what? Buddy was coming. Buddy said. You know what, bud? They're going to have to pry my hands off this keyboard. Yep, I heard him say stuff like that too. They're going to have to pry me out of here, cuz I'd always say, Andy, how old are you, you know?

1:17:19 And he and he'd say whatever. His age was 70s and I'd just be like, God, how do you do it? He said. I love it. This is what gives me my energy. You know, they're going to have to pry me out of here. They're going to have to carry me out of here, you know. And practically they almost had to, you know. So. But I I always think of him fondly now because I think he probably was okay. I he told me he had a full, wonderful life, you know, He said he has. I have no regrets. I've had a great life. What's there to complain about? You know? And I tell people that too. If I fell over right now on the floor and neither but nobody in here knew how to save me and give me CPR, it'd be okay with me. I mean, well, maybe not okay, but I'd still wish you did. But it'd be okay.

1:18:04 Because, I mean, I've had a great life, you know, I've done lots of things I don't. I don't want for anything. I don't need anything more. I don't. I'm just not right now. I'm just enjoying my life. It's like bonus, you know, bonus time. So that's kind of how I look at it. It's all a bonus. You want to know what's weird? You want to know? I bet. Who else feels like that right now? Aaron Rodgers It's bonus. It's bonus. Like, it's bonus. Yeah, it is for him. He's going to be 40 years old and he's still playing football and he has a chance to be an MVP again. You know if he's, we thinks he's he thinks he's with the right people now and he has the weapons to that he always wanted to have. Yeah.

1:18:46 It's bonus time for him. Yeah. Good segue back into football. I like that. I loved it. It was awesome. How? Could we not bring it back around to Aaron Rodgers? How could you and I not sandwich our conversation with sports? Some of the heaviest, most awesome things that you could ever talk about and then end it was sports. And probably some funny shit. Go Pat, go. That's totally our style. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's very funny. That was good. Nice segue. Way to tie that. What's it called? Piggybacking or whatever? Piggy piggyback. I don't know. I don't. Know I like segue when they have a commercial on and it's like 15 seconds and then they go to another one and then they come back with another 15 second bookends bookended that good job.

1:19:30 Bookended it was sports. Yep, that was very good. You know Bookender. You Brad the Bookender? It was so good to talk with you. Thank you, Kevin. You too, Brad. It was a pleasure.