Jane Whitney - Master Naturalist, "Failed" Retirement, and Curiosity - Ep. #10

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I had no idea they were
freshwater sponges.

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I I mean, there's just, I just
didn't know.

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I think of sponges as saltwater,
but there is a freshwater

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sponge.
Really.

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Yeah.
I don't.

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Yep.
I don't know much about it.

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It's native as I understand it.
I don't know much about it, but

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I was just really surprised that
there was a sponge, a freshwater

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sponge.
Yeah, I never knew that either.

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Yeah, yeah.
So.

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Anyway, so that was kind of fun.
Yeah, so that's probably a great

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place to start.
That's probably that mindset is

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probably something that leads
you to master naturalist, right?

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Like just being inquisitive
about things like that.

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Absolutely.
I think it's probably the major

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requirement for master natural
is is to just always be engaged

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or engaged in the sense of I
wonder what that is in the

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natural world around you or to
go about and then following

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pulling those threads when you
even just take a simple walk you

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see something and then you go
back and you think I wonder what

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that was or how do they how does
that particular insect.

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I remember once I I lead a lot
of hikes for master naturals, a

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lot of hikes.
And so hikes are a perfect

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opportunity for education and
outreach for in all kinds of

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ways.
But one of the things and I had

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thought about, and my preference
is always plants.

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I love plants and I've in my
next life I'm going to be a real

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botanist.
That's that's my goal.

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But so there, there there you
are.

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You're walking along and you're
and I'm pre hiking scouting for

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my hike.
And it occurs to me I have no

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idea how goldenrod golf flies.
You know, those things that make

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the little balls on goldenrod
stems.

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So in there is a larvae of a
goldenrod gall fly.

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So it occurred to me how does,
and they're only on a couple of

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specific species of goldenrods.
There are lots of goldenrod

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species.
How does that little critter

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know which is his type or her
type of goldenrod and knows not

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to make goldenrod the galls on
the wrong goldenrod.

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So, you know, it's the kind of
thing you go home and you think

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I got to look it up.
And so there's Google or there's

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all kinds of field books or
there's different wonderful,

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wonderful resources.
And you know how they know they

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have special cells in their
feet.

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They have little cells in their
feet that tell them it's the

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right type of goldenrod.
I mean, how cool is that?

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Fascinating.
You would think it's like a

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smell or like something that
only they can see.

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Right.
But it is something, it's it's

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probably, it would be considered
their form of touch, sense of,

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you know, touch that they're
they're working through their

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feet and they're receiving a
message and it says, and that

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it'll say, Oh yeah, this is a
Canada goldenrod species.

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I can do that.
Yeah.

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You know, so I think that that's
sort of looking at things and

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enjoying things and just trying
to pick things apart.

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And then possibly, I think a
part of natural being a

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naturalist is sharing it in some
way, although you don't have to.

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But it's, you know, you just get
excited about things or you

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think, OK, I can lead a hike.
I might have learned enough to

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be able to lead a hike.
And so that's it.

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It's just setting, enjoyment,
engagement, curiosity,

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willingness to follow up and try
to find answers or make your own

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hypothesis up and see if you can
prove it on your next 200 and

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two walks.
Yeah, yeah, you know.

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Yeah, I think that's that's
probably where I live.

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I I I hypothesize things and
then like I'll forget to look it

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up and like the next time I see
it I'll be like, OK, more ammo

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in the mental notes that I can.
Use, you know.

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So how so?
How did you get into it?

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Like what?
How long have you been been a

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master naturalist?
And like what led you there?

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Well, the Master Naturalist
program in Wisconsin started 10

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years ago, thus the 10th year
anniversary here, 2014.

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And I was in I think one of the
first official classes after

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they did their prototype and so
forth.

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And I don't know if I was the
first or one of the early

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official classes of Master
Naturalist.

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And I took it at the clearing,
which is Folk School in Northern

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Door and Door County and Ellison
Bay, founded by Jens Jensen in

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the 30s.
And they hosted the sessions and

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then, you know, we pay tuition
and go and we have people

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teaching us.
Instructors are a huge part of

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the master naturalist program to
help people become initially

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trained and so forth and get
through the curriculum.

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So I did that.
But what led me to that in the

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1st place was that even as a
youngster I spent all my time

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outside.
I think had I not grown up in

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the 40s and the early 50s, I
might have made a different

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career choice but, and some
women did back then, tried to

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get, they got into some of the
sciences and so forth.

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But, you know, for me, back
then, we're looking at, oh, let

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me say stewardess, librarian,
teacher, nurse.

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And then you go to school to get
your Mrs. degree, you know, your

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misses, which I did.
He's right over there.

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So, you know, it was a different
time.

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And certainly many women worked
around it and broke through it.

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I wasn't one of them.
And I don't regret a minute for

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becoming a librarian or.
And I was also a state.

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So it's not, it's not regret.
It's just something, some things

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might have been different
because I was always interested

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in the outdoors.
So you come through that and

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then I end up in we spent our
adult life in Baraboo before

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retiring to Door County to be
near family.

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And I had some great friends who
were ecologists and botanists

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and I thought, oh, these are
people I could get to know and

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spend time with.
So all of it just sorts to come

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together.
We retry a Door County.

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Bailey's harbor which has the
Ridges Sanctuary has.

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Tough point.
State natural area has Land

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Trust State natural areas
perfect place to fail

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retirement.
And I have totally failed

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retirement, totally failed
retirement, very, very busy.

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Which is why Becky Sapper, the
director of Natural Master

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Natural suggested you talk to
me.

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Because apparently for one or
two years, and I don't know

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about this year, I've had like
the most hours recorded in the

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state.
So here I am.

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So failed retirement, we call
that just totally failing

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retirement.
Sometimes failing is happy too.

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Oh, it is.
It's great.

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It's been a wonderful journey.
Yeah, it it really.

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So I just sort of fell into it.
And then the clearing, the

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formal training came along at
the clearing, which is not far

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from Bailey's harbor.
So I took it and there was

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several of us in that first
class that had similar

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backgrounds.
We'd always had the interest.

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We were already out doing
things, maybe leading hikes

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already as I was, but just
thought a more formal bow tie to

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our not really resume, but just
just to our our growing

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knowledge.
It would just be kind of fun.

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Absolutely.
So you mentioned.

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So it sounds like I I think I
heard librarian in there before

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that you were librarian?
For a while, I was I was a

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academic librarian, the longest
at UW Baraboo, but it was a

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children's library in the Public
Library Elementary school

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librarian.
As part of my UW Baraboo career,

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I spent time at the federal
prison in Adams County helping

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UW Baraboo students, who were
also inmates, get academic

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material for their papers so
they could write academic level

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papers for their college degree.
So lots of library different

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types of library work so.
We all thank a librarian at

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different site.
Librarians amaze me.

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You all know everything.
When immediately when someone

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needs to know it, you ask a
librarian, you know the answer

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all.
The time, I know, I know, it's

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great, and we trick a lot of
people that way and it it really

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is.
Mostly we just know where to

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find things, and if we don't
know where it is, we know how to

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look it up.
People frequently will say,

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well, who's the author of that
book?

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And I'll say I have no idea.
I'll just look it up.

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Yes, I've I've gained such a new
appreciation for library since

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we had our son.
He's two now and my wife

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especially uses the library so
much with story times and just I

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never knew how much little
children read and enjoy reading

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and getting different books it
we've.

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Being being read too.
Yes, it's amazing.

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So I have AI have a whole new
appreciation for libraries that

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I never had.
It's it's free stuff.

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Your taxes are already paying
for it.

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You might as well use it.
And they're wonderful.

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And most people who choose a
children's librarian career,

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bless their hearts, they want to
spend time with small children.

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I you know, so.
And in the elementary school I

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used to do story times, K
through 6 and so forth.

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But you're a little one.
Probably I they learn things

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like 5 little pumpkins.
Do you know all the hand songs?

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I know.
You're going to get good at

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them.
I know several hands.

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I don't know, 5 little, 5 little
pumpkins.

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Sitting on a gate.
Yes, I love it.

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Yeah.
I love it.

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So when you were doing sorry
times did you did you ever do

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like the whole dress up in in in
in the character and?

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Everything.
Not usually, no.

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I would.
I used to do a lot.

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So I at the school and I would
try mostly to expose kids to

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maybe a bit of poetry about the
theme because we'd have themes

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and they that might go with the
curriculum and so stories and so

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forth.
But I can tell you the hardest

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audience, tough audience, 6th
graders try to read to 1/6

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grader or try to read to 20 of
them 25 at a time.

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But the finding books and the
chapter in that book, that would

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just make them sit right there
and and listen.

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But it worked.
It worked, you know, a little

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engagement and so forth, but it
it worked.

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It was, it's very satisfying
work, but it it it's difficult

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because you're not their
classroom teachers.

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So they sometimes think Oh yeah,
whatever.

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And but you can do it.
And I did enjoy those years at

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the elementary school and but
yeah, I did and then moved to

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the Public Library and then up
at UW Baraboo.

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So and some of the kid people,
the young adults I had at UW

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Baraboo, some of them were the
parents of the kids I had at the

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school.
And then and then as your time

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goes by, the kids at the school
show up.

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Came to there, yeah.
Anyway, all fun, all fun.

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Yeah, I was actually joking with
that about about that with a

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student the other day.
He was very excited that he was

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going to get the opportunity
next year to he's a soccer coach

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and he was going to get the
opportunity to share soccer to

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around that age group like
middle schoolers and in an

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auditorium setting.
And I said I do not envy you for

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a second my friend.
Like I do not mind public

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speaking and I'm up here
teaching you.

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But that is a harder job than I
will have to do because an

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auditorium full of 6th graders
is a really tough crowd.

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Could could be a nightmare, or
it could it could go really

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well.
Very tough crowd.

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It's just hard to predict
indeed.

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Yeah.
So then that that skill set,

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right, that probably still still
comes into play all the time

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with you learning about things
just in a different way, right?

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In a different whether you're
you're doing one of those guided

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hikes or even just learning for
yourself right that that all of

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those skills of searching for
answers and being a master

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naturalist, you said sharing
with others like sharing that in

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an effective way.
That probably still all comes

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into play, right?
Being a master naturalist.

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Yes, it does it.
It really does, I think a part

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of being a master naturalist
that you cannot.

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You can take the training and
you have a huge thick 3 ring

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binder that you could take home
as as your, you know, it's your

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textbook that you use over the
course of your training.

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But then you're kind of on your
own.

227
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,080
It depends on where you live and
what organizations are around

228
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,000
you.
I can always go to the Ridges

229
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,720
sanctuary and ask one of the
staff there if they know, but

230
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,240
frequently they also don't know
because perhaps they're a

231
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,360
wetland specialist.
And I I got a question about a

232
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,360
bug, you know, so you still have
to do a lot of research, a lot

233
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,960
of reading.
There's just a lot of reading

234
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,600
involved and critical thinking
about what's the source.

235
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,480
It's interesting if you put in,
for instance, that you want to

236
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,800
know about an insect or a bird
or a plant.

237
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,600
If you end up in landscaping
websites, you're going to get a

238
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,160
totally different answer than if
you end up in the DNR website or

239
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,000
if you end up in a Natural
History from a university

240
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,840
website.
As to whether or not they're

241
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,200
looking at what you're looking
at, that's beautiful, like say

242
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,440
goldenrod, as to whether or not
it's a nuisance or a weed or how

243
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,720
do you treat it or do you
encourage it.

244
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,080
And so you, the master naturals
and of course things you would

245
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,240
encourage it.
It's a native species, great

246
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,160
late fall bloomer for all those
late fall insects looking for

247
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,440
neck.
I mean, there's a lot of things

248
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,160
to going on with goldenrod that
are wonderful.

249
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,800
But again, it's a critical
thinking.

250
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,320
It's learning, deciding where
you get your information and how

251
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,840
you go about using it.
But having said that, you get

252
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,360
some others that don't quite
mesh with like Golden Rod may or

253
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,760
may not be good.
What that does is prep you for

254
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:08,120
almost every single fall hike.
When I say on my hikes, you all

255
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,280
know that Golden Rod doesn't
make you sneeze, right?

256
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,040
And everybody goes, oh it does
make me, but how do you?

257
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,680
It doesn't and why doesn't it?
Because it's insect pollinated.

258
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,720
So.
But what are the what those

259
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,680
other points of view do for you
is helps you prepare your mind

260
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,600
for where your hikers might be
coming from.

261
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,760
You know, this is popular
knowledge out there or so it

262
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,640
helps you prep for a different
mindset that might be coming

263
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,520
into your hike, especially if
you lead a lot of public hikes

264
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:44,040
as opposed to hikes focused only
on those who are already maybe

265
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,120
nature lovers.
They're just interested.

266
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,200
They're who knows it was
something to do that morning, so

267
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,880
they're coming on your hike.
So it it does.

268
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,200
The many different sources can
help you see where questions

269
00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,560
might be coming from, and that
helps you prepare your answer.

270
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,040
You can always say I don't know,
that's that's one of the best

271
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,400
phrases ever is I have no idea.
And.

272
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,320
Being comfortable in it.
Yeah, but you know, so it it

273
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:16,600
does help prep you.
Yeah, so that, you know, meeting

274
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,520
each of those people where
they're at, right.

275
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:24,400
And having that conversation in
a different way is probably one

276
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,840
of the more, I don't know if
important is the right word, but

277
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,480
it's one of the more change
impact things you can have from

278
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:34,920
being a mass internationalist
right.

279
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,680
Well, having the conversation
with somebody maybe who isn't

280
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:44,000
that in touch with nature or
like aware or knowledgeable

281
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,120
about nature because if they
come on the hike and you know

282
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,960
there's somebody who's as
passionate as you are and and

283
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,880
all of that stuff like that's
fun conversation.

284
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:59,160
But in the realm of changing how
people live and operate on a

285
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,120
day-to-day basis, that's
probably a whole different ball

286
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,680
game, right?
With that group of people that

287
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,600
are just didn't have something
to do that morning and they're

288
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,040
coming for a hike with Jane.
Yeah, so, and that's exactly

289
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:11,640
right.
That master naturalist

290
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,280
emphasizes 3 different areas,
and education and outreach is

291
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,120
the most common one that
volunteers work in.

292
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,320
But there's also citizen science
and stewardship.

293
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,000
So that education outreach is
huge and that's exactly what

294
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,720
you're doing when you're on a
hike, that's outreach or formal

295
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,400
programs can be education.
But you are helping people see a

296
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,400
different picture or a larger
picture beyond say, well, what

297
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,240
kind of tree is that?
And there's nothing wrong with

298
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,240
that question.
And you can ID the tree for them

299
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,200
and you can talk about species
and perhaps why it's growing

300
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,800
there.
And so you start to expand

301
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,560
sometimes or sometimes on a
place like Northern Door, County

302
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,040
Ridges Sanctuary and Bailey's
Harbor.

303
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,920
It is a very orchidy place, lots
and lots of orchid species.

304
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,079
People love orchids.
What a great way to hook people

305
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,160
into a conversation about larger
issues.

306
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,760
Orchids are totally dependent on
this fungus, different fungi in

307
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,160
the soil.
So let's talk about soil instead

308
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,400
of orchids or as in conjunction
with orchids.

309
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,800
And again, that's exactly right.
You bring people where they are

310
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:26,119
and the questions they ask.
There's an endangered dragonfly

311
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,520
in northern Door County,
globally endangered, and it's

312
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,840
called the Heinz Emerald.
Very common question.

313
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,800
Well, who cares?
It's one insect.

314
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,720
What good is it?
That's a what good is it?

315
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,280
That's a legitimate question for
people who haven't been thinking

316
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,040
about it.
I mean, who cares?

317
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,160
One more insect in the world.
Why is it protected Fish and

318
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:47,560
Wildlife?
The federal government protects

319
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,480
it.
Well, let's just talk about the

320
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,080
innate value of each thing in
and of itself.

321
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,920
Or perhaps we don't know what
good it is to us, and things

322
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,120
don't have to be good only to us
as humans there themselves.

323
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,360
Sometimes you can see the light
bulb go off or you know you or

324
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,680
they think, oh, I don't believe
I've thought about a bug that

325
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,520
way.
So these hikes are you're

326
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,320
absolutely right.
It is a way to start a a change

327
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,960
and to help people see larger
pictures, sometimes smaller

328
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,440
pictures.
Fungus, pretty small.

329
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:33,640
Soil is pretty large, but so it
it is absolutely so.

330
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:40,240
A hike isn't just a hike if
you're looking at it again, even

331
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,800
yourself in a larger picture,
you're you're trying to reach

332
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,600
people, help them change their
minds about some things you

333
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,360
know, or start that process of
not change their minds, maybe

334
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:57,080
just sliding a little too the
side, just from where they're

335
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,880
focused. 100%, yeah.
Even if it ends up being in just

336
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,360
a bit more awareness about the
impact of our relationship with

337
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,920
the ecosystem in general.
Absolutely.

338
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,520
And what that?
And it's huge.

339
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:14,000
And a small change in mindset
can make a big difference in

340
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,040
impact, especially like.
I mean, thinking about that

341
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,160
scenario with a plight that's
facing the world, about losing

342
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,760
species daily and the amount of
species that are on the planet

343
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,440
decreasing.
Tremendously, yeah.

344
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,840
And the insect, It's really it.
It truly is like an apocalypse.

345
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,840
The, the, the, the diminishing
numbers of insects in the

346
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,720
world's not only just species,
just sheer numbers.

347
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:44,360
And I frequently say to folks,
they'll say, oh God, insects, at

348
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:45,560
least there's no mosquitoes
today.

349
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,040
And so you know, it just depends
on what else comes along.

350
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,880
But you know, I said it's, would
it help how many of you like

351
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,720
birds?
How about fishing?

352
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,960
How about turtles?
And say, So what do you think

353
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,800
they all eat?
So let's think of insects not as

354
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:05,080
insects but as food.
And you think about things like

355
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,520
that.
Sometimes you can slide in

356
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,440
things like you know, protecting
insects and not spraying

357
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,880
different things like that which
helps overall wear long shady

358
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,320
shirt instead of spraying your
yard.

359
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:19,520
You never want a hike to turn
into a lecture.

360
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,960
That's not the point.
But sometimes these

361
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,040
conversations occur organically.
They just come out of various

362
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,880
questions or somebody will ask a
specific question.

363
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,480
So it it you really don't want
things to be a lecture or a

364
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,040
downer, that's not the.
Point you know it's come back if

365
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:36,320
possible.
Right, right.

366
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,240
Or you know it it so it.
But mostly you just when you're

367
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,800
leading hikes, it's great to be
prepared for such a variety of

368
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,480
questions.
Such a variety of people coming

369
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,320
on your hikes, and it's really
good for your mind.

370
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,320
I I think the thing I like most
is learning.

371
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,240
I I really love it and then I
can say something about it.

372
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,120
But I love the learning.
I spend a lot of time,

373
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,240
especially before new hikes,
ones that have a different

374
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:10,760
emphasis, just reading, looking
at pictures, trying to figure

375
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,280
out different ways to approach
things.

376
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,160
I love the learning aspect.
Yeah, it's good too.

377
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,480
I'm getting old.
Good for me.

378
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,520
Yeah, Yeah.
So that's that's you you said

379
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,440
emphasis there, that's kind of
that probably what changes or

380
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,240
evolves as the year goes on
depending on the time of year in

381
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,800
the area that you're in, you'll
pick, you'll pick something

382
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,240
that's relevant to that hike or
how does that work?

383
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:35,840
Exactly.
That's how it works.

384
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:42,240
So you I scout for all of my
hikes, meaning I take a pre hike

385
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,280
mostly forcing my husband to go
with me and he'll say is this

386
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,720
going to be a botany hike, which
means we go very slow.

387
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,280
But no, it's fine.
It's you do.

388
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,120
I just did a hike this fall for
the science behind leaf

389
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,960
changing.
Many people get the chlorophyll

390
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,600
business, but they don't always
get some of the rest of it.

391
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,480
So I had to myself, never having
had chemistry in my life except

392
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,920
maybe high school, spend some
time with that.

393
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,680
But so that was a fall foliage
hike specifically labeled that.

394
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,160
Others are just hikes, the daily
guided hike at the ridges, well,

395
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,160
the main one is going to be very
different from the October 1.

396
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,080
So you do have to go out and see
what's on the trail, see what

397
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,760
you're coming across and then
have in your mind.

398
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,440
Let's talk about seed pods.
In May, you're talking about

399
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,800
pollinators in the fall.
You're talking about how are

400
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,440
these seeds dispersed?
Are they eaten?

401
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,280
Do they stick to your clothes
and dispersed by you, or are

402
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,200
they ballistic?
Those are my favorite kind.

403
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,360
Ballistic, They mean when they
dry, they explode like a plant

404
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,760
called Touchmenot.
And the reason it's called

405
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,760
Touchmenot 'cause if you touch
it, the little seed pod will go.

406
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,960
So it's a ballistic method of
seed dispersal.

407
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,040
So you know, just ways to engage
people in different things that

408
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,920
you just have a tendency to walk
on by because they're brown or

409
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,480
you know little brown seeds on
the stem.

410
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,280
So you you wanna and you don't
wanna talk all the time.

411
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,840
You plan where you're gonna stop
so that you have a a point of

412
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,040
interest there and gives people
a chance to take a little break

413
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,240
and look at the something up
close.

414
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,240
And Yep, hikes are managed.
You know there's a beginning, a

415
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,960
middle and an end.
You wanna know where you're

416
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,160
going to stop, what you're going
to talk about?

417
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,600
Be prepared for those oddball
questions.

418
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,400
But yes, you're absolutely
right.

419
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,200
Every hike should have some sort
of something that you are you

420
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,680
want to might perhaps highlight
for people who are new to the

421
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,960
property.
Sure.

422
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,840
So you said, I I think you said
earlier that you had been

423
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,760
hiking, you know prior to master
naturalist.

424
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,120
Did it change becoming a match
master naturalist or were you

425
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:02,760
already doing like guided hikes
at that time or?

426
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,320
I was already doing guided
hikes.

427
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:12,880
I think what it did was actually
taking the formal training gave

428
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,280
me a a greater appreciation for
expanding what I might.

429
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,880
As I said, I'm a plant person,
so I have to be careful not to

430
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,080
like, 'cause not everybody is.
So it gave me an appreciation

431
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,240
for myself.
Perhaps I could incorporate more

432
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:31,960
of different things, like the
geology.

433
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,440
Make sure you're talking about
the geology of where you are,

434
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,840
the particular environmental
issues.

435
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,400
What don't I know about this
particular forest system that I

436
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,040
could include at different times
throughout the winter, you know,

437
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,520
or whatever when there's no
flowers around.

438
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,040
So I think because you're
exposed to that in in the core

439
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,640
curriculum topics at the in the
formal training, it reminded me

440
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,840
very much reminded me and and
gave me an impetus to start to

441
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,360
include different topics
different level of of how deep

442
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,120
do you go how deep do you don't
how deep do you don't go.

443
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:20,440
So I think it did expand what I
wanted to present on my hikes

444
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,920
and not every hike gets every
issue you you really do you know

445
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,880
if you have a hike in this 25
people that's a very different

446
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,160
hike from having eight.
So again, you you need to takes

447
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,240
a long time to push 25 people
through a single trail hike and

448
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,080
much shorter time for 8:00.
So you can do different things,

449
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,760
but these are the things you
learn over time.

450
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,440
But you can you have it there,
you have it in your background.

451
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:51,360
But I think truly the formal
training enhanced what I was

452
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:58,680
doing because of that exposure
to, you know, all the all the

453
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,120
spheres, the atmosphere, the
biosphere, the lithosphere, all

454
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,680
of those things, the the water
cycle.

455
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,920
You know, make sure you
understand the carbon cycle.

456
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,960
I make it sound like it's, you
know, formal learning all the

457
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,320
time.
For me it is.

458
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,160
It's how I learn.
But there are other ways as a

459
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,480
master naturalist that you can
also learn and you can shadow

460
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,720
people or take.
I take a lot of workshops.

461
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,360
I just this spring took a three
day Moss workshop.

462
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,240
Oh my God, I'm not sure I knew a
lot more at the end of the three

463
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,480
days than I did 3.
Day Moss Workshop.

464
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,480
Yes, a three day Moss.
He was wonderful.

465
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,680
The fellow right here at UW
Green Bay, Kier Weffling.

466
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,200
He's a spore plant person.
Oh he's great.

467
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,280
And he had three day Moss
workshop at the Ridges sanctuary

468
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,320
and we had, we had the the
microscopes, the double eyed

469
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,440
ones and we're out with our hand
lenses and we're out.

470
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,120
Now, I can't tell you how many
species of mosses there are a

471
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,880
gazillion and a lot of them look
alike.

472
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,680
But I did learn and that's
that's what you do.

473
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,600
It's cumulative.
I now on my hikes can talk.

474
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,200
I already knew something about
spores, but I can talk more

475
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,520
specifically about more people
love Moss and so we can talk

476
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,960
about why some is red and some
is green.

477
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,680
Does it matter which species it
is?

478
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,440
No, it's the concept of of the
the the Physiology of that Moss

479
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,720
and the different ways it copes
with a with a cold environment

480
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,200
like at Bailey's Harbor.
So I learned a lot that I can

481
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,680
apply.
Do I know a lot about mosses?

482
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,160
Nope.
Even after the three day.

483
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,280
Even after the three day
workshop and I believe there was

484
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,440
another single day workshop in
there too but I know a lot more

485
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,440
than I did and I can then start
to kind of piece out pieces from

486
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,120
the Internet.
If I have questions I can e-mail

487
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,560
Kier.
I'm not.

488
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,160
And yeah I I never present
myself as an expert on any of

489
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,600
this.
I'm a self-taught don't have the

490
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,400
formal background so but again
it's how you learn it's how you

491
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,280
pull it together.
It's a way to open up worlds for

492
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:16,200
people on your hike or yourself.
Or it it is, it's just

493
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,720
interesting.
It's it's just endlessly

494
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,760
fascinating to try to learn
about these things in nature.

495
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,640
How many questions are
unanswered?

496
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,800
How many things we don't know is
what I find fascinating.

497
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:36,000
Like even the people who do have
the, you know, X amount of years

498
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,480
of formal training and are are
not the citizen scientist, but

499
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:45,200
the the the the educated
scientist, the minuscule amount

500
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,480
of things.
We actually know that compared

501
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,640
to what we could or what is, you
know, that's what fascinates me

502
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,240
about it.
Like you hear three day Moss

503
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,280
workshop and you start thinking
about OK, like maybe I know

504
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,440
enough through day one, but
what's on day three of the Moss

505
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:01,920
Workshop?
Like?

506
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,720
What's he still talking about on
day three?

507
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,760
You.
Know on day three.

508
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,360
I know, I know.
And you know, for those of us

509
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,080
who have not used those big
microscopes since high school,

510
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:16,640
which for me it was a long time
ago, yes, you are learning a lot

511
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080
of new things and some things
are very simple.

512
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,640
You don't because you're
self-taught and you're not a

513
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,840
professional in the field or an
educator in in that same field.

514
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,000
Many things are just as new to
you as they would be to anybody

515
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,000
on your hike.
So by day three, you've got your

516
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,800
samples that you've been
collecting and you're trying to

517
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,840
sort them out into sphagnum Moss
and Big Shaggy and all that, and

518
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,120
Red Feather, all these cool.
They're so cool.

519
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,160
So then you're looking under the
microscope and you can see what

520
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,840
he's been trying to tell you,
'cause sometimes your hand lens

521
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,560
isn't quite enough, but you've
got now time 'cause you're back

522
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,720
in the building and you're
looking through your and he'll

523
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,960
say no, these are the
identification characteristics.

524
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:01,600
This is what you're looking for,
for that.

525
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,200
And can you see them?
No, I can't see them.

526
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,080
OK, look again, this is what
you're looking for.

527
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,760
Can you see it?
And you know, at one point I

528
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:15,320
finally said yes, I can see they
were cells that I was not seeing

529
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,880
as cells and it was great.
So that's what the.

530
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,000
So you have a three day workshop
aimed at people who are

531
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,400
self-taught.
This was not aimed at

532
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,200
professionals.
He came up to help a whole bunch

533
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,600
of people in around in that area
who were just interested enough

534
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,640
in mosses to spend some time and
we're all looking and

535
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,480
everybody's going, Oh my God,
look at that.

536
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,200
Wow, come see this, come see
this.

537
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,480
So a lot of it is just mutual
enthusiasm.

538
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,400
Some of it is brand new
knowledge and you think this is

539
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,720
just is this is just going to
end too soon.

540
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,440
And then there were others who
were thinking, OK, OK oh, my.

541
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:55,680
Oh, my God.
Almost 5:00.

542
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,000
So.
But, you know, I don't know it.

543
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,440
I think you have to have an
enthusiasm for the learning and

544
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,560
and for whatever subject of
presents itself in front of you.

545
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,160
That teaching moment to yourself
or to your hikers.

546
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,200
Yeah.
Yeah.

547
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:19,280
So before we move on too far
from the hikes, how, how do, how

548
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,840
do they find you?
How do you share your hikes and

549
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,120
how do you how do you get people
there?

550
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,240
Master naturals is always work
through an organization, so

551
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,880
usually they would then find
organizations that are

552
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,400
conserving or preserving.
So you're looking at nature

553
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:44,040
organizations to begin with, and
mostly you you find each other.

554
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,680
I spend a lot of time
volunteering citizen science as

555
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,560
stewardship as well as
education, which is the hikes I

556
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,560
I do.
All of it.

557
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,480
So sometimes when you go to an
organization and say I want to

558
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,880
volunteer, they will just gladly
sit you down and talk to you,

559
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,200
and you may have some idea of
what you want to do.

560
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,200
So you start out at a very
introductory level.

561
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,640
They'll say, what would you like
to do?

562
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,040
And you'll say, oh, I would love
to lead a hike, but I think I

563
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,600
might need some, you know, a
little more knowledge about it

564
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,560
or.
And then that organization

565
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,280
usually will publish a schedule,
an event schedule.

566
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,720
And that's really all it takes.
And when you're in a tourist

567
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,440
area such as Northern Door
County, people find you getting.

568
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,760
It on the right calendar.
Right, right.

569
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,680
They find you.
So they might be art gallery

570
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,760
people.
So one day they'll go to the art

571
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840
galleries, but maybe their
friend or their relative coming

572
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,440
in to visit them is a nature
person.

573
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,200
So then they'll go find some
nature places and they'll look

574
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,600
at the calendar.
So it really is.

575
00:32:53,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Most nature preserves have
events, most have hikes or they

576
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,200
have citizen science
opportunities.

577
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,120
And once you're involved, it
truly snowballs.

578
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,720
It truly does.
Because you'll think, for

579
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,360
instance, that the ridges I've
been stream monitoring, I did it

580
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,160
with my granddaughter, which
starting when she was eight or

581
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,520
nine, and we did it till she was
through high school.

582
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,080
So almost a decade of stream
monitoring together.

583
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,920
Well, that came about because
the rigid sanctuary decided they

584
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,560
wanted to start a stream
monitoring program, which

585
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,920
monitors the help of local
streams officially for the DNR.

586
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,400
And the Wisconsin Actions
volunteer group works through

587
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,440
your W extension with the DNR.
You're trained.

588
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,120
You get this great equipment and
you go out and stand in the

589
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,400
water and you're hip waders and
you throw tennis balls in to

590
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,560
take stream flow and lots of
different things, citizen

591
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,240
science.
But it came about because the

592
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,760
Ridges said we think this would
be good for us to start here.

593
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,760
And they now monitor, I think 12
or 13 streams in Northern Door

594
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,720
County.
There are other organizations

595
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,360
that work with it.
So I said, oh, sure, I'll try

596
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,679
that.
And then you know, other things

597
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:14,960
come along like frog and toad
survey, which is out of the DNR

598
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,000
and they were looking, they came
to the Ridges and said we need a

599
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,600
frog and toad survey route in
Northern Door County.

600
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,800
Do you know anybody who could
help?

601
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:29,719
Hand goes up, hand goes up.
So you really start to find each

602
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,679
other and you expand to what you
want.

603
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:37,120
That's what's wonderful about
being a volunteer is you can

604
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,880
think I can't add that to my
schedule, just can't.

605
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,920
I would love to, but I can't or
I don't.

606
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,159
I like hikes more than I like
driving around in the night

607
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:48,360
listening for frogs.
OK, this is how you listen for

608
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,760
frogs at night.
Sometimes it's four of us do it

609
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,480
together and we jump.
It's in the dark, 'cause you do

610
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,400
frog monitoring after dark and
you only do it by sound.

611
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,840
So you're along, you have 10
spots about a 50 mile route, and

612
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,800
you stop in the dark along the
side of the road and you all

613
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,400
jump out and you're listening
for frogs and people stop,

614
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,680
'cause you're on the road.
And they say, do you girls need

615
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,040
any help?
No.

616
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,840
Thanks all good listening for
frogs.

617
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,920
It's great.
So you just never know.

618
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,360
But you you really do find each
other and the opportunities are

619
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,480
endless.
I was looking at statistics

620
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,040
before I came because I wasn't
sure what I might need to know

621
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,760
about the Master Naturals
Program, Wisconsin.

622
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:42,280
This was I think in in the last
three 4-5 years maybe The last

623
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,600
stats I saw was like the number
three had the number three level

624
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,440
of highest number of volunteers
in this in the country.

625
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,960
Minnesota was fourth.
Not just master naturals, this

626
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,720
is volunteers, which means
there's lots of places to

627
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,240
volunteer throughout the state.
So it was #3.

628
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,120
Western states are the first
Idaho and Utah.

629
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,840
And I think you know that's just
so they're, they're number 12

630
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,120
and Wisconsin's high so and.
That's volunteers for like,

631
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:13,080
outdoor.
Adversity.

632
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,760
It's no, it's just all
volunteers, all volunteers.

633
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,640
And then you come down and you
get, you know, just under 1000

634
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,200
master, you know, 6-7 hundred
master naturalists working

635
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,960
around volunteering.
There's just so many

636
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,400
organizations that can use you
that it's never a problem to

637
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,400
find a spot to put your time, to
put your learning, your effort.

638
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:43,880
Even things like helping with
with mailing lists, you know,

639
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,720
stuffing envelopes for a
conservation organization and

640
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:51,240
you're helping them.
That counts as master naturals

641
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:54,120
volunteer time 'cause you're
actually furthering the mission

642
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:59,200
of that natural organization,
that nature organization.

643
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,080
So it's not a hard program to be
part of.

644
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:07,160
It's not hard just to meet your
hours and so many hours of

645
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,800
continuing it.
And many people are familiar

646
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,000
with Master Gardener program.
This is very similar in that

647
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:18,760
sense of 40 hours of required
volunteer work in a a nature

648
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:25,720
organization venue of some sort
and eight hours of continuing or

649
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:30,560
further education.
Pretty straightforward to do so

650
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,080
it's not a difficult thing to do
or to take.

651
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,360
They have more and more classes
around the state formal and some

652
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,040
are weekends only, some are one
day a week.

653
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,560
It's 40 hours.
So however the hosting

654
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,880
organization can fit it in and
get the instructors you have,

655
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,040
you have to do it but.
And some days it's a three day

656
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,560
Moss one.
Some days it's just three.

657
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:54,600
Who knew?
Who knew?

658
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,800
Who knew?
So I I love hiking.

659
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,240
I'd love to hear from you.
What are a few of your favorite

660
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:11,480
Wisconsin hikes?
Oh well, boy, I you know when

661
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,440
we're in Bear, we spent our
adult life at this is Devil's

662
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,800
Lake in Mirror Lake.
So those are all all of those

663
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:23,360
have gorgeous places to hike, to
climb up to the top of, you

664
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,040
know, the east bluff in in over
Devil's Lake in Baraboo is is

665
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,040
breathtaking.
Gibraltar Rock, which is

666
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,680
southeast in Columbia County.
I think it's a high precipice in

667
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,720
the middle of nowhere all by
itself.

668
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:40,920
It's weird, but that also is a
stunning view.

669
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,040
By the time you get up there of
surrounding farm lands and you,

670
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:53,680
you get a wonderful appreciation
of the beauty of farm lands, of

671
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,240
cultivated farm lands that you
know, there are lots of things

672
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,640
one could find not to like about
a lot of cultivation.

673
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,920
But the beauty itself, the
symmetry, the work that goes

674
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,000
into it, the difficulty of the
farming life is, is just from up

675
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,120
there.
It's beautiful.

676
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,480
It's a lot like nature.
It looks wonderful.

677
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,200
Did you get close?
Nature's about survival and

678
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,760
reproduction.
That's it, you know, and farmers

679
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,320
deal with that all the time.
Survival, the hard work, what

680
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,880
goes into it to feed the
billions of people that we have.

681
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,840
It's a an interesting
perspective because anyway, so

682
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,560
that's an interesting hike.
Sort of strayed a bit there, but

683
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,360
we'll get back there but we'll
get back there.

684
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,560
So then and then I've gotten to
know Northern door since I

685
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,880
retired really well 'cause when
we were in bear wise working and

686
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,800
kids you know the whole thing.
So but I love any hike at the

687
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,480
Ridge of sanctuary tough point,
which is also in Bailey's harbor

688
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:56,520
is beautiful Door County Land
Trust has 1415, maybe 16 by now

689
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,800
properties well marked hiking
trails all over the county.

690
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,920
Washington Island has several
great ones, so each hike is

691
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,120
different because it goes
through different landscapes or

692
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,560
each season is different.
Some of my favorite winter hike

693
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,720
is it Logan Creek, which is part
of the ridges but South of

694
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:22,040
Jackson Port and in the winter
it is in a snowfall.

695
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,560
It's just stunning it because it
crosses some creeks and it's

696
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,480
just beautiful.
It's quiet.

697
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,560
Snow, muffles sound, you know,
so it's nobody's there.

698
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,440
The barred owl will probably be
hooting it up, having a great

699
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,400
time, especially the winter.
That's their time to mate.

700
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,040
Start in 'cause they want their
babies big enough so they can

701
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,080
feed other baby animals to their
babies, so they get a head

702
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,440
start.
So, you know, the owls are busy.

703
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,960
So winter hikes, You want to
listen for that, but I don't

704
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,160
know that I've ever.
And we go on Natural Resource

705
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,800
Foundation hikes as well, which
are statewide.

706
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,360
I don't know if you know the
Natural Resources Foundation.

707
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:12,560
They're like the giant
incredibly important friends

708
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,800
group of the DNR.
They raise money that helps

709
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,120
research at the DNR.
They do a lot with bird

710
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,040
conservation.
They give out a lot, thousands,

711
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,720
millions over the course of the
time you remember.

712
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:28,400
But they offer hikes and
programs around the state.

713
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,240
So you have to be a member to
go, but it's a very marginal low

714
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:39,640
membership fee.
So they there's just we've gone

715
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,200
on several of those.
We went all the way to

716
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:48,720
Grantsburg, it's way West
somewhere and we had a great

717
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:52,760
evening with ADNR educator and
we went out and listened to

718
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,600
cranes over there.
We could listen to cranes here,

719
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,000
but it was fun to go somewhere
else and listen to cranes.

720
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,480
So I don't think there's a hike
I've been on that I haven't

721
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,920
really liked because there's
always something to look at.

722
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,200
It's like, whoa, did you see
that in Poor John Says.

723
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,880
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I I saw that.

724
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,920
Sure.
Yeah, I suppose having that,

725
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,760
having that level of curiosity
we talked about makes no hike

726
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,480
not enjoyable.
I'm right there with you about

727
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,880
winter hiking, though.
I I love being outside in the

728
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,360
winter.
I'm also one of those strange

729
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,000
people that I'll take January
over July.

730
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,560
Oh, me.
Too any day.

731
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,960
Any day.
It's so much, I think it's

732
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,920
prettier.
It's more comfortable.

733
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,560
It's not hot.
It's not hot.

734
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,120
That's the main thing is it's
not hot.

735
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,320
Yeah, let's talk about that a
little bit though.

736
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:48,640
The the large plots of
monoculture and and seemingly

737
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,760
the, you know, even the word
naturalist and how we feed

738
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,400
ourselves as a species isn't.
They don't go together right?

739
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,440
Like it's not a natural way of
how we feed ourselves for the

740
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,080
most part.
But I can't agree with you more

741
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,320
that there is something just
like that draws you in or like

742
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,720
majestic about rolling farmland.
It's it.

743
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,160
And every time I see it, it
never gets old.

744
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,640
It never gets old.
It's gorgeous.

745
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:25,360
One of my favorite things to do
is my husband is from North

746
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,480
Central Illinois farm country.
And when we go visit family,

747
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,280
it's just it's remarkable.
It's gorgeous, yeah.

748
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,560
And and we feed.
We feed the we feed the world.

749
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,840
And there are a lot of problems
with it, but there's also,

750
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,640
there's a lot of change.
Most farmers do not want to

751
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,240
outstrip the land.
That's not their job.

752
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,120
That's not their interest.
They don't want to do that

753
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,480
either.
So there's a lot of farming

754
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:55,600
practices that have changed.
Many are putting in pollinator

755
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:58,160
rows.
They're they've switched from

756
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,200
plowing to what is that stuff
called low tail, no tail, thank

757
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,160
you, no tail.
So there's, you know, they're

758
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,320
also changing.
They're making changes of all

759
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,120
kinds.
So it's got nothing to do with

760
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,920
not wanting to change.
It's just it's a huge industry

761
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:23,320
and it's machine run and.
I think about the output that

762
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,600
they're on the hook for.
That's right.

763
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,120
That industry in general, what
they have to provide, everybody

764
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,360
has to eat, right?
And it's like, I I think

765
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,440
sometimes that, like, the
intention you're talking about

766
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,320
gets thrown around like, oh,
it's the farmer's fault.

767
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:40,200
Well, it's.
Not it's not.

768
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,800
Of course it's not their fault.
They're doing what they know

769
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,520
they can do to produce something
we need.

770
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,440
Exactly, right.
We buy it and they're doing it

771
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:54,200
and they do it very well.
And but there are changes that

772
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,000
can be made in every industry
and farming is an industry these

773
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,760
days by and large.
So there are changes that can be

774
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,000
made everywhere.
There are changes that can be

775
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,680
made at nature centers sometimes
I I still see them selling

776
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,200
bottled water.
You know so it's it's just not

777
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,560
any particular you develop an
appreciation for how hard things

778
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,240
are to you know you're you're
making things do perhaps what

779
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:22,720
they weren't intended to do.
But by gum we're going to make

780
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,120
them do what we want them to do
and that's including plants.

781
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:34,600
So it it is there are lots of
global issues, but we can we can

782
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:40,280
do our part, we can learn about
them, we can vote, we can

783
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,960
contribute.
Those of us who you know you

784
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,880
have cash to contribute
somewhere you can, you can help.

785
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,880
Sometimes cash is in fact
helpful as opposed to your hours

786
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,040
and your time and your labor.
So it there are many things we

787
00:45:55,040 --> 00:46:00,320
can all do individually, but it
is there are huge issues, none

788
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,440
of them easy to solve or we
would have solved them.

789
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,480
It's interesting to think about
it through the lens of that

790
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,840
being very good at it.
Like you said, I think sometimes

791
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,120
that that we don't realize we're
almost too good at things when

792
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:20,120
we get to something, right?
Like we become so, so good at

793
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,440
doing a certain thing, being
hyper focused on it that we

794
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,280
don't always think about the
outcomes that we're affecting in

795
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,880
other areas, right and.
Sometimes we don't know those

796
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,920
outcomes.
We just, we have learned so

797
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,960
much.
Look at, Oh my goodness, my dad

798
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,240
was born in 19 O 8.
So he had a different attitude

799
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:44,240
towards things.
You see a bug, you kill it, and

800
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:45,600
if you can't kill it, you spray
it.

801
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,120
You know those old things that
you see in the cartoons?

802
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,560
Yeah, my dad.
So.

803
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,640
But we didn't know about the
result of DDT in some of those

804
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,880
things.
But when we did learn it, we

805
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,920
changed and tried.
That change also caused other

806
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,720
problems for elsewhere.
So we can learn.

807
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,760
We have to apply our learning,
we have to do it.

808
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,280
We have to have the common will
as a society.

809
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:15,320
Sometimes that's hard to gather
into a single basket, but we do

810
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,440
learn and sometimes we don't
know it when you look at very

811
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,120
small example, I asked once why
one of the nature areas had so

812
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,840
much Scotch pine.
Scotch mine is a non-native

813
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,560
tree.
Well, because the DNR was

814
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,600
advocating planting it way back
in the 70s as a way to retree or

815
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,720
reforest areas we don't want.
We now we take it out.

816
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,040
We don't want Scotch pine around
because it's for one thing it

817
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,960
itself is very good at making
more.

818
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,960
They tend to become their own
culture and they carry diseases

819
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,360
that the native Pines will
suffer from, but they don't.

820
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:55,240
So but again that was in the
70s, it was a quick easy way.

821
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:58,360
It worked.
It seemed to be OK and now we

822
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:04,400
know different.
So it's it is we learn as we go,

823
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,880
we learn as we go and hope we
can make our learning into

824
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,120
something concrete.
Hard to do, Very hard to do.

825
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,440
Yeah.
Concrete lasting.

826
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,520
Absolutely.
Yeah.

827
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,960
Yeah, very hard to do.
Those are such negative topics.

828
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:25,880
So you know it's, it's just.
Negatives in the negativity is

829
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,440
in the eye of the beholder.
You know, valuable conversation

830
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,920
is is I think positive right.
Like it talking about it.

831
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,160
We might not we won't come to an
outcome you know, but having it

832
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,760
and quite frankly it's some of
the reason the podcasts exists.

833
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:49,520
Like I think there's so much
value in exploring topics that

834
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,200
are a lot of times even on the
surface like they can even be

835
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,920
like divisive right.
Like, we live in a pretty

836
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:59,080
divisive place.
But like, if the longer the

837
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,920
conversation is about it, I
think the more common ground is

838
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:08,440
found like relatively easily and
negatively quickly goes to,

839
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,080
well, we all have really similar
goals, you know, it's just

840
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,800
getting there.
Right, right.

841
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:14,600
Yeah.
And.

842
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,960
And that's true.
And when you look at yourself,

843
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,480
for instance, I just looked at
my plastic bottle and didn't I

844
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,520
just chide somebody for having
plastic?

845
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:22,960
But this is.
Refilled I can.

846
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,120
Tell oh, yes.
And it will get rusty.

847
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,240
And So what I do and I carry
four of these when I go on a

848
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:33,560
hike, so there's not one giant
one that I have to carry, you

849
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,040
know, in your hand.
I look at hikers on an hour hike

850
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,400
and they all carry giant water
bottles.

851
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,000
So this goes in my backpack.
And I have four of them, and I

852
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,560
reuse them and reuse them and
clean them out because they pick

853
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:48,080
up the rust color of my water
until I can I I carry these

854
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:53,320
instead of metal.
And so yes, plastic has a use.

855
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,280
So you just need to be careful
with who you're condemning.

856
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,840
Miss Whitney?
Yes, but.

857
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,160
Like a glass house adage, right?
Exactly right.

858
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:11,080
And so it it you're right, the
the long the conversation goes

859
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,280
on, the more you can find common
ground, the more you can maybe

860
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,800
point something out to somebody
that they hadn't quite thought

861
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,280
of.
Hunting is one of those things.

862
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,160
Hunting comes up a lot on hikes
because almost every natural

863
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,320
area in northern Door County
allows hunting.

864
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,320
There are a couple close to
buildings that don't, but

865
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,400
they're outer reaches.
They will allow gun season

866
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,920
especially.
That's a conversation to have

867
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,520
with a lot of people from
cities.

868
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,680
They don't understand it and
they it.

869
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,680
So it's again, it's a larger
picture.

870
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:52,680
It's a valuable activity in a
place like Wisconsin, especially

871
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,760
if you're a plant lover.
We refer to deer as orchid

872
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,920
eaters. 1 less orchid eater in
the world.

873
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,520
No, it's but those are
interesting conversations.

874
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,880
Again, many people have not
thought of what overpopulation

875
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,160
of a species means, not only to
the species, but to the

876
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,040
environment, to the ecosystem
around it.

877
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:22,480
And it is a it is a legitimate,
valid sport at sporting activity

878
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:29,040
to hunt and whether it's just
for the thrill of the hunt and

879
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:30,080
snowmobiles.
That's right.

880
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,960
Thank you for that too.
And whether it's for food on the

881
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,840
table or just simply the sport
of hunting and then sharing the

882
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:43,720
food, hunting is a is a a
valuable tool for natural areas.

883
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,800
And it helps people to hear that
because frequently it's a it's

884
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,080
almost 180�� from what they
think.

885
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,760
And he just reminded me at the
Ridges Sanctuary, which is, you

886
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,840
know, a very old Land Trust,
Wisconsin's first Land Trust

887
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,560
1937.
So people think, you know, we

888
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,200
would never allow hunting or
snowmobiles.

889
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,160
Well, there is some of our
outreach trails.

890
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,040
The farther out that are
snowmobile trails and you talk

891
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,280
about and everybody goes, oh,
those are bad things because

892
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,920
they come at it from a city
point of view or from perhaps

893
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,960
just a general nature point of
view.

894
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,920
Well, we look at it as a
wonderful partnership that

895
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,080
doesn't often occur between the
snowmobile clubs and the nature

896
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,600
preserve.
And what good is it to us?

897
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,280
Well, to them it's clear we they
can use some of our outlying

898
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,120
trails.
For us, it's eyes on the

899
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,600
property in the winter that we
don't have.

900
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,360
They come and clear the trail
before they go out on it, so

901
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,840
there's no giant logs ready to
trip them up.

902
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:59,400
They also don't stop and dig up
plants, and they're there in the

903
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,800
winter when their heavy machines
aren't disturbing.

904
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:09,680
We have some globally endangered
plants, orchids that grow on the

905
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,600
snowmobile trail.
Clearly the snowmobiles just

906
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,880
don't bother them, nor that it's
the machine because they only go

907
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:21,600
when the snow is deep enough.
So again, this is a partnership

908
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,720
that we have found valuable over
time.

909
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,600
Again, it's a way to help people
open up their minds to different

910
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,680
ways of looking.
So again, your comment about

911
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,520
conversations going on, things
arising, you can sometimes just

912
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:42,000
and I learned from them as well
because they come from corporate

913
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:47,520
America, they come from
different places and they'll had

914
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,680
some of the best conversations
with some corn geneticists.

915
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,480
Oh, nice.
Oh, it was great they talked

916
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:54,760
about.
Fascinating, I bet.

917
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,040
Oh, it.
Was I was so excited because

918
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:03,920
corn is an A new world native
plant and it's it used to be

919
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,280
perennial.
Still is, still is perennial,

920
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:07,800
but not the way we use it
anyway.

921
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,720
So things are getting started to
make it perennial.

922
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:11,800
That's a whole way that farmers
are also changing.

923
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,120
Can we make corn perennial,
which would do lots of positive

924
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,600
things in the long run, But we
talked about the leafy gene.

925
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:25,560
The leafy gene doesn't.
The leafy gene adds more foliage

926
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,240
to the corn stock.
It doesn't change the the ears

927
00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:32,160
or anything.
Still can be used for corn

928
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,160
syrup, which is what most of it
and other things like.

929
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:39,880
But the additional leaves add to
the forage value of the stock.

930
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,560
So you've got the same stock but
now you've got few more leaves.

931
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,800
So they have figured out this
leafy gene, I think they

932
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,920
actually call it the leafy Jean
and So what what a fascinating

933
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,880
conversation to have on a hike.
Well, because we got talking

934
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:57,680
about who knows how we got down
that trail.

935
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:02,480
But so that was that was of
great interest in it and it it

936
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:07,120
fits into this whole thing about
learning about things are

937
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,640
changing as we can for the
better.

938
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,920
Even the perception of
something, there's there's

939
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,760
people that would shudder at
just hearing the word corn

940
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:15,640
geneticist.
They.

941
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,000
Would shudder.
And you know it.

942
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,680
It gets bad rap.
But you know, a lot of it comes

943
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:27,640
from the, you know, GMO turned
into, you know, herbicide

944
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:32,240
resistant and of course that.
Lots of things going on, but if

945
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:33,800
we're going to feed billions of
people.

946
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,800
Yeah.
Yeah, so anyway, so, so I

947
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,480
learned from them and or they're
foresters and I didn't know what

948
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,880
was it called?
The Maple Leaf petiole, Maple

949
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,600
Leaf, petiole insect or some
sort beetle maybe Maple Leaf

950
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,840
petiole A petiole is the formal
name for the stem of a leaf.

951
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,800
So this little bug lives inside
that petiole.

952
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,800
Only of maples.
And then it falls off.

953
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,000
So you have all these nice
leaves falling off way too

954
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,480
early.
So the Forester says, oh, I see

955
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,200
you have Maple Leaf Perry on
BBDBD.

956
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,560
And I said, whoa, what's it
again?

957
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,320
It's just great.
It's just wonderful fun being

958
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,600
out and about, encouraging
people to look at small things,

959
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,360
at big things, having a great
time.

960
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,320
That master naturalist aspect
just gives you that little extra

961
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:31,200
boost of saying I've had some
training and let's get out and

962
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,080
share it and maybe you could
share some of your training with

963
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,120
me or citizen science.
You don't have to be in front of

964
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:38,800
people to be a master
naturalist.

965
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,360
You can go do citizen science
work stewardship.

966
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:48,480
Stewardship is like plant
restoration or killing things,

967
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,520
you know, invasive species.
You can do that or trail

968
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,640
maintenance, go thwack things
and and make the trail.

969
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,520
That's that's what the
snowmobile club's helping you.

970
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,960
Out with that's exactly right.
So, so those 3 three things.

971
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:06,560
So you don't have to be a yakety
yak up front all the time.

972
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,680
I lead a lot of hikes with a a
dear friend.

973
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,960
She's a former kindergarten
teacher and she's great.

974
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:18,480
She knows so much, but she
doesn't like to talk to speak in

975
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,720
front of adults.
As such, she was a kindergarten

976
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:21,880
teacher.
So she.

977
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,920
Probably still talks with her
hands a lot, smiles really big.

978
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,640
Exactly.
Well, she's wonderful, but she

979
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,000
does not like to lead hikes.
So we do it together.

980
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:37,040
But she's what's called a sweep.
So she's in the back and she'll

981
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,320
pass questions along, or she'll
contribute once we start and so

982
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,560
forth.
So again, you don't have to be

983
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,760
like me.
That can't seem to stop you.

984
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,040
You can just.
There's just so many ways you

985
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:54,280
can contribute or engage and
find it absolutely a delightful

986
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,920
way to spend your time.
Yeah, absolutely.

987
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:01,080
So I think I think a kind of a
neat thing to pull out of that

988
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:06,480
or what you said there recently
on the show we had a a quick

989
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:12,760
conversation about proximity and
how that changes changes your

990
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,960
perception of things.
And I I think something like

991
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:17,600
hunting is a really good example
of that.

992
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,440
You were talking.
I think proximity to where we

993
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:26,240
get that food, you know, changes
somebody's perception of the

994
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,080
said ACT or whatever.
And we could talk a long time

995
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,480
about that.
But I think it connects to this

996
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,000
really well because I think the
same goes for nature in general.

997
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,800
It doesn't have to be proximity
to harvesting an animal and then

998
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:44,480
ultimately eating it to see its
true value or the process of it

999
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,200
making its way there.
But like a master naturalist,

1000
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,120
proximity just to nature in
general, I think is something

1001
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:58,840
that's so, so important and so
missing in a lot of people's

1002
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:00,440
lives.
And I think that's probably one

1003
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,080
of the more, I would guess,
rewarding parts about what you

1004
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,080
do when you get that group of
folks that aren't always in

1005
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,880
nature that you can kind of see
that come alive a little bit.

1006
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,960
Absolutely, absolutely.
You know, there's an an

1007
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,880
awareness and an understanding
and then the stewardship or

1008
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,080
preservation, you know, it's
sort of a progress for people.

1009
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,880
So you, you help build that
awareness, which is really what

1010
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,160
your outreach is doing on a
regular basis is building an

1011
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,640
awareness of the natural world
around you in any way that you

1012
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,240
think will work with that
particular group of people or

1013
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,720
with kids.
The whole movement of having

1014
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,960
forest education, education
outdoors, not having the kids

1015
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,160
sit inside all the time, just
get outdoors.

1016
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,920
And it's an awareness, it's
being out there, it's

1017
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,440
investigating, it's looking at
things.

1018
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,480
And you can get adults to do the
same thing.

1019
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,960
And they are absolutely
awestruck frequently the first

1020
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,600
time they look up close at a
flower, they've never seen all

1021
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,480
the little boy and girl parts
before, you know, and it's it's

1022
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,800
just interesting to them.
And they think, Oh my gosh, I've

1023
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,760
looked at the and I had no idea
what those things were.

1024
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,920
Well, now, you know, this part
is this one and this one's the

1025
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,440
other one.
It's just it's a wonderful way

1026
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:19,440
and an easy way to build that
awareness to help people see it.

1027
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,520
Make connections, not just
interpersonal, but for them to

1028
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,840
make a connection with something
or they'll you.

1029
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,080
I frequently hear, Oh my gosh, I
can't wait to show this to my

1030
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,880
grandson.
So again, and it's not that they

1031
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:38,120
have some huge understanding,
it's the value of looking.

1032
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,040
It's it's the excitement of
seeing something different in a

1033
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,680
or in a new way or something old
in a new way.

1034
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,400
It's just fun.
And I think that absolutely is

1035
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:55,760
the value of being a Master
naturalist or a volunteer of any

1036
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,040
of them.
But the Master Naturalist

1037
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,480
program really helps set the
foundation for you to go out and

1038
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:06,240
do it.
Their resource themselves, you

1039
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,720
know, they're they're housed at
UW Extension Master Naturalist

1040
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,680
program and they work through
the Environmental Research

1041
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,120
Center and the College of AG and
Life Sciences.

1042
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,200
The Natural Resources Foundation
is works with them.

1043
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,520
I think I read this like 700
organizations that the

1044
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,560
volunteers work with across the
state.

1045
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:27,920
You know I work with several
many.

1046
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:35,560
It's just it is it's just a
wonderful way to get connected

1047
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:37,040
that resources are there to help
you.

1048
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,280
You can ask those people for
help if you're working on their

1049
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,720
program.
One of the things I do with my

1050
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,120
friend who's The Sweep, Usually
we sucker monitor, which is

1051
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,360
fish.
I mean, I know nothing about

1052
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:53,160
fish, nothing zip, zip.
But the Shedd Aquarium wants to

1053
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,360
do a decades long study of
sucker migration.

1054
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,760
They're critically important
fish in Lake MI, but they're not

1055
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,240
a game fish, so so they're
considered a trash fish.

1056
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,720
So they don't they don't get no
respect.

1057
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,800
So but she's doing this out of
she's their director of

1058
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,240
freshwater research.
So she comes up, she has teams

1059
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,440
of people all the way up the
coast to Lake Superior.

1060
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,520
So she said I need some people.
So sure we are.

1061
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,240
So now I know more about
suckers.

1062
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,240
I still know nothing about fish,
but I know I know about suckers.

1063
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,360
'Cause.
She we had to learn and she and

1064
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,920
if we have a question, we take a
picture and say she'll

1065
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,200
absolutely help you.
The resources are there.

1066
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:37,040
It's a wonderful way to engage
in a larger world, but it's also

1067
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,840
very personal world and you can
do what you want to as a

1068
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:45,640
volunteer as much or as little.
I just can't tell you, or maybe

1069
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:50,560
I have been, how much fun I have
at it, how rewarding.

1070
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:55,120
It is important.
I think it's important work.

1071
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,040
You know, citizen science is
frequently data collecting.

1072
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,240
Well, what are we data
collecting for it?

1073
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,280
So the DNR can make management
decisions based on the data you

1074
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,600
just gave them.
It's important they don't have.

1075
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,120
Like the frog surveys you were
talking about earlier.

1076
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,600
Exactly.
I think that I used to live up

1077
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,960
in the UP and I think they did
grouse drum surveys like that

1078
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:17,160
too.
I think they did.

1079
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,040
You know, volunteers go out and
listen for the drums at

1080
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:21,640
different times.
A year, right?

1081
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,400
Because you're collecting data.
How many frogs of this species

1082
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,520
did we hear?
Are they decreasing in in

1083
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,840
numbers?
Increasing Stable Stream

1084
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,080
monitoring has to do with
culverts as well.

1085
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,440
How did you count the suckers
going through?

1086
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:44,440
Oh my gosh, you stop.
You go daily from late March

1087
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:50,720
until early May because the
Creek that my friend Julie and I

1088
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,280
monitor, the suckers do not come
until the first week of May.

1089
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,920
Now every fisherman we asked
March through the first week of

1090
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,440
May.
We say, do you see any suckers

1091
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,040
yet?
No, they won't be here till the

1092
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,000
1st week of May And we say thank
you and you know they're right.

1093
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,480
But that's anecdotal, that's not
data.

1094
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,640
So what?
What they're trying to do is

1095
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:13,520
collect the data to prove those
anecdotes.

1096
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,120
So you count suckers.
So you could start in March.

1097
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,760
If you're lucky, the ice is out
and there's no suckers.

1098
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,560
So you put zero on your
clipboard, and then pretty soon

1099
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,520
you can put 10 because you stand
there and you count them.

1100
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,280
You count them, You actually.
Count them.

1101
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,640
By Yep, you count them and then
they start to come in all at

1102
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:38,360
once and by 1st of May we might
have as many as well Coming into

1103
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,040
that we'll have 40-50.
In this section we walk up the

1104
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,600
Creek, there's another 4050.
By the time we end counting, the

1105
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,840
end time of counting is when
there's too many to count.

1106
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:51,640
So we might have 56700 of them
and we say Oh yeah, we're not

1107
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,000
counting those and then the end
counting is when you no longer

1108
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,360
see them because they've gone up
and you're they're not in your

1109
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,880
stream anymore.
So, and now they get, what do

1110
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,240
they call them, those tags,
those radio tags, They're radio.

1111
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,760
Radio tagging them to see how
many come back through the

1112
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,200
antennas.
They're like fish tags and

1113
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:14,200
they're fins.
It's huge.

1114
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,200
And that's the Shedd Aquarium.
And so, yes, so pretty soon

1115
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,920
we're counting.
And my friend and I swap weeks

1116
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,520
so we don't have to go every day
for six weeks.

1117
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,920
We just go every day, every
other week and you stand and you

1118
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:31,240
appear in the Creek again.
Guys come along and say, what's

1119
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:37,000
your girls looking for?
So you know, we're like 30 years

1120
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,560
older than most of them.
So you know, it's at least at

1121
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,040
least so.
But we got our clipboards and

1122
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,040
there's a measurement thing.
We measure the water, the depth

1123
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:46,840
of the water.
There's we put that in in the

1124
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,720
spring with with Doctor Karen
Merchy comes out from the shed

1125
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,520
and we're in the water and the
hip waders putting the equipment

1126
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,400
in and we're recording it.
Oh, it's great.

1127
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,240
It's data collecting.
It's just great.

1128
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,400
But how helpful.
She has no other way to get any

1129
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,240
information on the suckers,
which are incredibly important

1130
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:08,040
to the fishery because everybody
feeds on them, or feeds on their

1131
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:12,960
fecal matter, which promotes
insects and other things, and

1132
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,080
their eggs.
But they're, as I said, they

1133
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:21,280
don't get no respect.
My, my, my pops is one of the

1134
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,280
only people my dad likes eating
sucker patties.

1135
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,080
Patties oh.
Yep, he has for as long as I can

1136
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,480
remember.
He he likes at that time of the

1137
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,840
year.
Yep, sucker patties.

1138
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:38,320
And they taste disgusting.
Yep.

1139
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:39,960
That's why they're not a game
fish.

1140
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:41,040
Yeah.
Uh, huh.

1141
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,800
And well, I did.
When we started this, I tried

1142
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:45,440
to.
I want, I went to some of the

1143
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:49,040
fish markets and stuff and asked
and we finally ended up at

1144
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,760
BearCat.
And I said I told her what I was

1145
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:53,760
looking for.
I said I'm not a fisherman, he

1146
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,840
said.
But we're doing this data

1147
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,440
collecting project for this shed
and I would love to try one.

1148
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,920
And she said, Oh no, no, don't
have any, no, nobody does it.

1149
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,480
Nobody brings us, she said.
Then she thought about it and

1150
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,160
she said, oh, just a minute.
So she went back, and she

1151
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,120
brought out a little container
of Pickled.

1152
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:14,480
Suckers.
I've heard of that too.

1153
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,960
Yeah, they were.
Pickled and she said here you

1154
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:18,760
can have these try these.
And so they're they were like

1155
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,720
pickled herring.
Yeah, that probably wasn't as.

1156
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:21,400
Bad.
Yeah.

1157
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,400
But so you know how kind of her
to share that with me.

1158
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,120
I think it was probably her
family's dash.

1159
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,640
But she did think about it and
how kind was that And that's

1160
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:30,320
another thing about you might
find.

1161
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,800
I mean, I can't imagine 100
years I'd go ask anybody for do

1162
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,440
you have any suckers I can eat?
But because I was involved in

1163
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,400
the project I thought maybe I
should try 1.

1164
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,720
So again, how kind of her to
share that with with me And and

1165
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,600
it was fun and I can talk about
it now and we talked to the

1166
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,840
fishermen about how important
the suckers are and they say, Oh

1167
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,840
yeah, I know we get that every
now and then people are

1168
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,640
surprised by it.
But most of the fishermen have

1169
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,920
an understanding of how the lake
works.

1170
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,320
They really do.
And they just shake their heads

1171
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,480
at us though out there.
May, April, I mean March and

1172
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,120
April.
And there we are the first week

1173
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:04,440
of May.
Yeah, they were right.

1174
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,120
They know.
Yeah, well, that's probably part

1175
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:08,680
of the proximity thing too,
right?

1176
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,360
People that are close and use
the resource have an

1177
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,520
understanding of the resource
that they just don't have the

1178
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,920
they don't have the motivation
to share it the same way that

1179
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:20,920
others may.
Right, right.

1180
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:25,680
It it's been an absolutely
delightful journey taking this

1181
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,680
on sufficiently that I really
have failed retirement.

1182
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:33,200
I do put in tons of hours and I
love it all.

1183
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,520
I I just really do I the
stewardship I I help with plant

1184
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:41,600
inventories and GPS ING.
We've been GPS ING orchids every

1185
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,840
orchid we come across at the
different places at the Ridges

1186
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,439
sanctuary.
That's all because I'm willing

1187
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,479
to learn this, just a few of us
who do it.

1188
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:51,920
So what do you mean by that?
What is?

1189
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:53,600
What is GPS ING?
An orchid?

1190
01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:57,160
Well, when you find an orchid,
you mark it on your GPS, you're

1191
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:01,040
so it has a waypoint coordinates
that are kept extraordinarily,

1192
01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:04,359
extremely private 'cause people
poach orchids.

1193
01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:10,680
But but the ridges is about
protecting its resources, not

1194
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,200
only its land, but what's on
that land.

1195
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:16,160
And if you don't know you have
it, you can't protect it or you

1196
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,840
don't know how to protect it.
So you do plant inventories,

1197
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,359
that's why places do plant
inventories, long term studies.

1198
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,560
But also we didn't know we had
that.

1199
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:28,720
So maybe we should figure out
how to help it, or protect it,

1200
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,000
or what's keeping it here and
what's here that we need to pay

1201
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,600
attention to, to keep that
particular animal.

1202
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,960
Or like the Heinz Emerald
Dragonfly this globally or or

1203
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,279
whatever it is, if you don't
know you have it, you can't

1204
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:43,680
protect it.
So tell me about the orchid.

1205
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:45,439
Why?
What's the value that people

1206
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:46,840
would poach for?
What?

1207
01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:50,680
Because they're because they're
seen as a special plant, that

1208
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:55,240
many of them are rare.
Many of them are in trouble, so

1209
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,080
they want them in their garden
or they want them in their

1210
01:09:58,080 --> 01:09:59,840
house.
People love orchids, and you can

1211
01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:01,240
buy orchids at the grocery
store.

1212
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,040
I mean, they raise them all the
time, but these are native

1213
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,200
orchids that maybe they've never
seen.

1214
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,280
So they don't understand, 'cause
they're very different from the

1215
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,560
supermarket orchids, which are
by and large tropical.

1216
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,480
Our orchids, Wisconsin has what,
just under 50 native orchids.

1217
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:17,600
That's always a surprise to
people too.

1218
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,000
But they're terrestrial orchids.
That means their roots are in

1219
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,240
the ground, so they can get
through the winter.

1220
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:26,160
But so there's several species
of orchids.

1221
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:30,920
So we do look for orchids
because there's sort of a an

1222
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,560
indicator of the overall health
of the property.

1223
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,640
They do rely on different
species of fungi to germinate.

1224
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:42,200
So that means we have to keep
that, all that soil or whatever

1225
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,160
they're in.
We have to protect it in

1226
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,200
different ways or whatever that
protection might consist of.

1227
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,000
But again, we're looking at long
range studies.

1228
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:56,640
If we start to lose these
species, what does that mean?

1229
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,920
Is it climate change?
Is it, is it encroachment?

1230
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:04,200
Is it phosphorus coming in from
farms?

1231
01:11:04,440 --> 01:11:09,880
You know So again it's a way to
keep track of what's going on.

1232
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:13,240
And then we also do general
plant inventories.

1233
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:16,760
That's one of the big current
pushes that we're I'm involved

1234
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,720
in is a plant inventory of the
richest sanctuary.

1235
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,560
I do a lot with the riches.
It's it.

1236
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:26,960
So it it really is.
You can develop that

1237
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:31,320
relationship if you get involved
in this type of volunteer work.

1238
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,640
You become almost part of the
organization.

1239
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,920
Even though you're not a staff
member, I frequently find myself

1240
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,120
saying we I just feel, but it's
because I'm a long term

1241
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,440
volunteer, they're there.
It's an organization that

1242
01:11:44,440 --> 01:11:47,520
depends on volunteers and they
know they depend on volunteers.

1243
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,760
So they treat you nicely and
well.

1244
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,920
I'm sure they say we too.
Yes.

1245
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:57,240
So it's just a it's a way to
become wholly engaged in

1246
01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,600
something that perhaps you've
always had an interest in but

1247
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:03,680
didn't have the time.
I just can't speak highly enough

1248
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:08,880
of the master naturalist program
of reaching out, adding,

1249
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:11,040
enriching your life.
I mean, don't we all volunteer

1250
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:16,600
because it truly makes us feel
good and enriches us internally

1251
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:18,640
and mentally and all of those
sorts of things.

1252
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:26,320
But it also, it does good and
furthers so many aims and

1253
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:28,960
accomplish.
It pushes things, helps.

1254
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,080
They can't do it without you
because they many of these

1255
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:35,240
places can't have the staff.
Yeah, they just can't.

1256
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:37,600
The DNR doesn't have the staff.
I mean, even the large places

1257
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:41,600
don't have the staff to do it.
So it's it you can, you can help

1258
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:43,960
and it's great.
It's just fun.

1259
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,680
So I don't know.
Absolutely.

1260
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,200
So I can't believe I've made it
this long into the show until I

1261
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,400
asked, but my curious mind wants
to know about all these buttons.

1262
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,560
But this is what's happening.
This is like swag, which is

1263
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:58,800
great.
First of all you get a name tag.

1264
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:03,400
OK so 'cause you I completed the
course so but this is great fun

1265
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,520
you all.
I can't wear this hat because

1266
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,800
it's too heavy, but it is.
Every year if you do your 40

1267
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,960
hours and your 8 hours, you get
a pin.

1268
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,120
OK.
You get a pin and sometimes you

1269
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,280
get a special pin.
This one, I think says here's

1270
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:20,200
1000 hour pin, here's a 5000
hour pin.

1271
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:22,800
I'm headed toward 10,000 hours,
I think.

1272
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,280
But I see I'm.
Successful retirement.

1273
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:31,640
I think I need to be committed.
So but it it's just fun.

1274
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:35,040
So you get a pin every year.
They like to recognize their

1275
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:37,000
volunteers and they do a great
job of it.

1276
01:13:38,440 --> 01:13:40,520
Sometimes you might get a
T-shirt for something, but you

1277
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:42,920
you get pins, you get extra
rewards.

1278
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,440
It's a minor thing, but
nonetheless it's a recognition

1279
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,640
that you've met the requirements
that year that you are part of

1280
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:54,000
this larger organization.
Join us for a class.

1281
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:59,040
Consider being an instructor.
Do you have questions?

1282
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:02,040
You know, they are hugely
helpful and then they send you a

1283
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:03,760
little reward and it's it's
great.

1284
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:07,280
So I put them all in one hat,
'cause I don't want to lose any

1285
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,680
and it's it just is some of
these are.

1286
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:12,840
I think these are all master
naturalist.

1287
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:17,280
And so 2014, it'll be 10 years
for me next year in the program

1288
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:21,720
and this is this year is their
tenth official 10th anniversary.

1289
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,920
It's a it's all across the
country there are different

1290
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:29,800
master naturalist Texas is a
long running 1 Minnesota, we

1291
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,960
based the Wisconsin one.
It was based a lot on the

1292
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:36,720
Minnesota one but they try to
make them very specific to the

1293
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:40,280
area.
General concepts, carbon cycle,

1294
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:43,360
but also then maybe geology of
where you are or where you will

1295
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,360
be spending your time.
But also general geology.

1296
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,000
General how plants work
ecosystems.

1297
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:54,400
So they they do try.
It's a tremendous undertaking to

1298
01:14:54,440 --> 01:14:59,480
educate people who are going to
be self-taught in 40 hours of

1299
01:14:59,480 --> 01:15:01,840
the entire natural world.
Oh that's pretty huge.

1300
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:05,360
And they are the first ones to
admit it's not going to make you

1301
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,800
a master naturalist.
It gives you you get the name

1302
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,320
tag and you are a master
naturalist.

1303
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:14,480
But it's up to you to keep it
going and to learn.

1304
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:19,600
Put the time in figure it out,
work with others, pair up.

1305
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,400
It's just so it's a great
program, but yeah, you so you

1306
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:24,760
get swag.
It's just kind of fun.

1307
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:29,120
Got it.
So does your curiosity just

1308
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:30,840
about the natural environment,
does it take you out of the

1309
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,360
state at times?
Like do you Do you travel and

1310
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,360
hike in other places or?
No, we are not travelers.

1311
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:38,720
We we don't travel.
When we do.

1312
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,640
We went to a family reunion in
Galena.

1313
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,280
Yes, in Galena.
Boy, there's some great little

1314
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:49,080
strange county parks in Galena.
So when we do go elsewhere, we

1315
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:52,840
usually try to find a place to
to go walk or hike or just to

1316
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:58,440
stretch the legs.
I'm not much of A shopper, so

1317
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,200
and we're not foodies.
We just we're just very dull

1318
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:05,880
people.
We're just very dull people.

1319
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,040
So we do it.
We go off and we, we want to

1320
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:11,640
find a place to, oh, I don't
know, go have an ice cream cone

1321
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,200
and sit and look at a view or
get out and take a walk.

1322
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:16,600
Yes.
So we don't travel.

1323
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,360
But when we do, actually, it's
mostly to visit family.

1324
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,000
We do try to find some place new
to take a walk.

1325
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:27,120
Yeah.
If you immerse yourself in the

1326
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:30,480
environment, there's very little
dull about the outdoors.

1327
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:35,800
That's that is a true statement.
That is a true statement, 'cause

1328
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:41,160
you could watch things or you
can question things or take a

1329
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,240
photograph.
The beauty is remarkable and the

1330
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:51,000
underlying struggle you can it.
It's there it it's just it is it

1331
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:56,360
that it is about survival.
But the many ways to go about it

1332
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:02,880
is it's it's stunning that the
many ways that the natural world

1333
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:08,040
chooses to do the same thing,
survive and reproduce and how

1334
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,680
many ways there are to do that.
And they all have a little niche

1335
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:14,480
that they all work within and
they all do it slightly

1336
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:16,840
differently.
So this little group of plants

1337
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,160
over here does it one way, but
even within that one little

1338
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:21,240
group of plants, it might be a
little variation.

1339
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:26,520
You know, some do it with the
male plants over here and the

1340
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,120
female plants over here.
That's dioecious.

1341
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:32,200
When they're separate, they have
to get together.

1342
01:17:32,480 --> 01:17:35,280
Or then there's the ones that do
it on the same Bush.

1343
01:17:35,440 --> 01:17:38,000
You know it.
Why?

1344
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:40,800
What is behind that?
Other advantages to one of the

1345
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,480
other Which came first, the
split sexes or the together

1346
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:46,000
sexes?
And then they decided to split

1347
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:49,080
'cause it was more efficient.
But it's all about evolution, is

1348
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:52,400
about change over time,
adaptations.

1349
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,800
It's wonderful.
It blew my mind, and it wasn't

1350
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:01,800
that long ago that I learned it
about how like lettuce and

1351
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:05,120
spinach, and I think there were
even some of like the fruiting

1352
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:08,040
plants that I can't remember
what they all were, but they

1353
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:10,880
all, like, stemmed from one
plant at one time.

1354
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:13,480
We all stem from 1 cell.
Well, yeah, yeah, there's that.

1355
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:18,840
There is that there is that,
Yeah.

1356
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:20,720
Yeah.
Yes, it is.

1357
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:22,720
Flowering plants are fairly
young.

1358
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:27,640
The ones with flowers, the the
gymnosperms, the things like

1359
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:32,160
conifers, much older.
So probably the flowering plants

1360
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:38,600
at some point had adaptations or
let's say mutations, genetic

1361
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:42,320
drift, lots of different things
that eventually became

1362
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:46,760
adaptations that were passed on
to then become the flowering

1363
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:50,000
plants.
You know it's but the flowering

1364
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,120
plants, that's a whole young
group of things comparatively

1365
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:57,480
speaking to other things.
Spore producers are much older.

1366
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:02,280
And then the gymnosperms, which
are not spore producers, they

1367
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:06,680
they have pollen and they have
male and female cones and they

1368
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:09,720
pollinate each other just like
the flowers do.

1369
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,040
Flowering plants do.
But they don't have flowers.

1370
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:14,880
They don't have flowers.
I think the main difference is

1371
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,320
they don't have ovaries.
Perhaps you didn't know we were

1372
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:22,880
going to get into that today.
Never know what.

1373
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:24,680
We're going to get into that's.
The exciting part?

1374
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,160
About, but you know, so one is
just much older than the other

1375
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,960
and one came along.
So it's not that surprising that

1376
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:34,160
those were flowering plants.
She was, Speaking of vegetables

1377
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:39,200
generally flower at some point
if you let them go, and so

1378
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:41,680
they're newer, but they probably
did arise.

1379
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:45,440
It could also have been
deliberate.

1380
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:49,640
Humans have been manipulating
plants for a long, long time,

1381
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:55,480
and insects manipulate plants.
Plants manipulate insects so it

1382
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,200
goes back and forth because they
want to work together.

1383
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:01,080
They want that insect to come
and get this pollen and go over

1384
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:05,280
there so.
Did you see that relatively

1385
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,920
recently?
I can't remember where I even

1386
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,480
found this.
Probably just a random story

1387
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:14,120
that I read online or something,
but about that type of soil that

1388
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:21,320
they found in the Amazon that
was manipulated by humans long,

1389
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:27,920
long time ago, that that is more
like it's more permaculture

1390
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:32,120
driven than what we do.
But it did you did you hear?

1391
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:33,640
Anything about that?
I know you haven't read about

1392
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:34,600
that.
I'll have to look that up.

1393
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:36,080
I wish I could tell you where to
look it up.

1394
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:39,120
See, that's the that's the good,
that's.

1395
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,320
The downside of the curiosity is
there's only so much room to

1396
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:45,080
remember where things that you
were miss are are.

1397
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:47,880
I know I can't tell you how many
things I have bookmarked.

1398
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:52,760
I it just hopeless bookmarked in
my computer or pin, you know

1399
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:56,040
then you've got the night that
really Jane it's really get a

1400
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:59,040
grip.
Yes.

1401
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:01,320
I was just reading an article
about soil on Mars.

1402
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,520
So we want to do this.
Soil on Mars.

1403
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,720
Yes.
So if we want to colonize, how

1404
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:11,760
in the world are we going to
grow our food without insects?

1405
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:13,520
We're going to have to take
insects to Mars.

1406
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:16,840
How cool is that?
That we're going to have to take

1407
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:18,360
insects to Mars.
So people who think they're

1408
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:21,360
getting away from, you know,
deer flies and mosquitoes might

1409
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:25,080
be wrong, but it's mostly going
to be things like bees and other

1410
01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:30,200
because insects work the soil
and work the decay and all of it

1411
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:35,680
is of a piece.
And the plants that we use need

1412
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:40,720
it and either we learn to bypass
it or we take them with us so

1413
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:45,040
that they, the soil can start to
become our type of soil and not

1414
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:48,400
Mars type of soil, which is
useless for our plants.

1415
01:21:49,480 --> 01:21:54,640
So, you know, somebody had to
think about that, Yeah, yeah, we

1416
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,600
can go and we can, but how can
we do it on any scale if we

1417
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,360
expect to live there?
So we're going to need to

1418
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:06,000
reproduce parts.
So that's a scary thought, but

1419
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,200
but it is interesting that just
all concerned at saying, well,

1420
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:11,800
we're going to have to deal with
insects.

1421
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:18,160
You would have to, yeah.
And that's, you know, so that's

1422
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:21,600
funny that you bring that up
because that's like there's,

1423
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:27,440
there's, there's like this
spectrum of conversation that is

1424
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:30,520
easily accepted versus like,
well, that's strange.

1425
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,320
So living on Mars, you know,
it's weird that it's talked

1426
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:37,120
about now, but think about that
conversation 30 years.

1427
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:38,640
Ago, 30-40 fifty years.
Oh, my.

1428
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:40,480
One of my favorite movies is The
Martian.

1429
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:43,440
I mean, botanist is the lead
character.

1430
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:48,200
How cool is that?
I mean, how many movies say, Oh

1431
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:50,160
yeah, let's have a botanist be
the lead character?

1432
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:57,040
Yeah, if they sent the, if they
sent the ship up, would you be

1433
01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:58,920
on or would you stay here?
Oh no, I stay here.

1434
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:01,520
I don't travel.
No, no, no, I don't travel.

1435
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:03,440
Especially Marsh especially.
Marsh.

1436
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:06,480
Yes, exactly.
I watch the marsh and I have

1437
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:11,600
deep potatoes forever.
No, but no, I don't think I

1438
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,280
would.
You know you get to be a a

1439
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:20,080
certain decade and it's like oh
somebody else but you just keep

1440
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:27,200
going and it keeps you young or
you know at least moving and get

1441
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:29,800
you out there.
I the mental stimulation the

1442
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:34,560
engagement with people the
learning, the feeling of of

1443
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,600
actually making a difference
small difference is fine it's

1444
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:43,400
just all it's it's it's
wonderful it's it's I'm so glad

1445
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,600
I failed retirement.
I I just really am.

1446
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:51,000
It's it's it.
It's it.

1447
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:55,040
It is.
It's meaningful to fail

1448
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:58,080
retirement.
Especially being able to do it

1449
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:01,600
in something like you.
You glossed over your story very

1450
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:07,600
quickly about how access to it
like wasn't readily available or

1451
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:11,520
easily available as you were.
You know, choosing a career path

1452
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:13,560
and and what it.
Was well, way back when, yes,

1453
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:17,520
yes.
But like that, that's a whole

1454
01:24:18,440 --> 01:24:21,520
another conversation of a gift
from it that you're able to do

1455
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:24,840
that that you know failed
retirement turns into really

1456
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:27,120
your career that you're
passionate about.

1457
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:29,880
Right.
This and yes, exactly.

1458
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:34,480
And had something like this been
around or who knows had somebody

1459
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:37,240
in my family been doing this
sort of thing, but it just

1460
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:40,440
wasn't just, it was different.
It was just different.

1461
01:24:40,440 --> 01:24:42,720
Different times all fine.
Just different times.

1462
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:47,440
We change, we move.
You have to be willing to to say

1463
01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:52,400
yes, take a risk, lay yourself
out there and and frequently you

1464
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:54,480
say, well, I can learn that, but
then you find out you really

1465
01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:56,120
can't or you don't like it at
all.

1466
01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:58,560
But that's what's great about
volunteering.

1467
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:00,560
You can say this isn't working
for me.

1468
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:03,760
I'll be glad to try this.
It's still a win when you do,

1469
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:05,000
when you know what you don't
want to.

1470
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:06,520
Do.
That's exactly right and you

1471
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:08,120
don't.
And the organization doesn't

1472
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,080
want you doing it if you're not
enjoying it, or if you're not

1473
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:12,800
liking, or if you're not putting
your effort into it as well.

1474
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:19,520
So it's just a perfect way to
figure out who you are, is to

1475
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,480
volunteer and and see what you
like.

1476
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:27,040
What drives you, what, what do
you want to do next?

1477
01:25:27,440 --> 01:25:29,760
Gosh, what's up today?
Yeah.

1478
01:25:31,480 --> 01:25:32,800
Absolutely.
Well, it was awesome.

1479
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:34,920
It was awesome chatting with you
and having you on.

1480
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:38,440
I appreciate you taking the time
and sharing your story with us.

1481
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:42,200
I I think the gift that you give
a lot of people I I can only

1482
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:46,000
imagine is is priceless.
Comes right back at me.

1483
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,760
So thank you.
It's great to have the

1484
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:54,680
opportunity to share this
organization, Master naturalist.

1485
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,560
It's wonderful.
Look it up, find those training

1486
01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:00,240
places, get out and just.
Do it.

1487
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:02,080
If nothing else, come on a hike
with you.

1488
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:04,200
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

1489
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:05,840
Come on a hike.
Yep.

1490
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:07,640
Thanks, Jane.
Thank you.