Dan Lawrence - Effective Leadership, Losing an Airman, and Karouser - Ep#54

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What's up friends, welcome back
to Rooted Wisconsin.

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Appreciate you for clicking
another episode.

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Grateful to have you here.
If you've got your video on you

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can tell I'm starting to get a
little excited about both

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season, but I don't usually take
it too serious until November.

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So we've got a couple episodes
of Rooted Wisconsin before we

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get there.
Today's is with Dan Lawrence,

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Leader, Founder and Commander
and Reef of our partner

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Carouser.
And really excited to share some

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of Dan's story because he has a
couple stops that I think are

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really fun to hear and talk
about.

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Really helpful.
To hear and talk about.

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And we talk a lot about
leadership, which I think helps

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everyone with it.
When effective leaders are in

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place, I think that helps most
things that come into contact

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with it.
One story, though, is about his

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time in the military.
Dan spent many years in the US

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Air Force, and I didn't bring
this up in conversation, but

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it's something I've thought
about our service members a lot

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because we often think about the
commitment and dedication it

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takes to do that, enter our our
be a service member and Rep and

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protect and serve our country.
But I think there's a layer of

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it that goes a little bit more
unnoticed.

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And we all know like you deploy,
you move around the country, you

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some, you actually give some of
your freedom away like I feel to

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serve our country and protect
our freedom, which I'm really

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grateful for.
On top of it, though, there's

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this layer of commitment where
if I want to quit my job

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tomorrow, I can and I can find a
new job.

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Our service members, once they
sign on the dotted line for that

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contract.
You know it's.

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Four years, it's it's eight
years, it's working towards 20

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to to retire where they they
can't just up and quit if they

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want.
And Dan hit a crossroads in his

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career where he was really
uncomfortable with an upcoming

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deployment.
And I'm going to let him tell

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the entire story.
But he definitely swam upstream

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in that instance.
And the results were sad and

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surprising and growth filled in
a bunch of different things.

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And like I said, I'm going to
let him tell the story, but

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that's a layer of commitment
that goes unnoticed where

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civilians, most of us can quit
our job tomorrow, start a new

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one, find a different one and
it'll be fine.

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Our service members don't always
have that opportunity.

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And remember, sometimes it's
life and death.

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It's pretty wild when you when
you get to that layer of

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commitment.
So there's a there's

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appreciation that lives there
that's is good to share.

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And his story specifically is
unique, I guess I would say.

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Listen to listen to the whole.
Episode to check it out.

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We talk about that we talk about
leadership, of course we talk

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about starting Carouser a little
bit and a whole lot more.

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As always huge shout out to our
sponsor carouser.

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They keep these episodes coming,
so make sure you click like on

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their Instagram, follow Facebook
wherever you are on socials.

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And once you listen to this
whole episode, you dig Dan's

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story.
You say I want to try Carouser.

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We've got a discount code for
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Without further ado, though,
let's hear Dan's story.

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Dan Lawrence.
So have the ways we try to lift

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our neighbors.
Where did the love go?

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Where did the talk?
And we need some help to make

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this.
A lot of things I'm excited to

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talk about.
Absolutely.

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It's been, it's been nice
getting to know you when you

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guys reached out.
You know, there's obviously

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this, anytime you enter into a
new engagement, there's this

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feeling out period. 100%.
And I know you and I are cut

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from a similar cloth where
relational aspects of things

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matter a lot.
And we probably both entered

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into the scenario feeling each
other out, man.

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Like, what's what's going to
happen?

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What are we going to do?
And I'm really excited about

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where it's developed to getting
one of the main things that was

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just the breath of fresh air and
ultimately why I decided to just

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come all in with you was golfing
and then going to dinner and

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getting to know, you know, Dan
Lawrence, the person, not the

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business owner, not the the
aspirational stuff that you

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have, but just you in in
general.

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And I shared this with you last
night, but it's probably a cool

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place to start.
I think one thing that's really

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telling about a lot of people is
how people they lead follow

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them.
And I think that's really

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telling watching you and your
environment, man, with your

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people and how they respect you,
follow you, believe in what what

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you do.
And that was the same thing that

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I got the day from golfing and
going out to dinner is I guess

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that the the brass tacks of it
is just the authenticity of it,

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which I really appreciate.
And what I don't know what it

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what do you feel about that?
Where does that authenticity

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come from?
Has it always been that?

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Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think
so.

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I realized at a young age, like
we all struggle.

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Yeah, right.
Like we're all human and you

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know, there's, there's masks
that we, we put on and there's

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different roles we play.
Like, right, you're a, you're a

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son, you're a brother, you're a
husband, you're a worker, right?

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You're a friend.
And there's different masks that

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we all put on and we all have
struggles, right?

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And there's, especially in
today's day and age, everything

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is, there's so much focus on
division and, and fighting

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against one another.
But really realizing that as we

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all share the same human
condition and some people are

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better at masking it than
others, and some people are

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better at switching roles or
playing roles than others.

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But what I realize is I don't
want to waste time.

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And if I'm putting on a facade,
you know, there's times, I know

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there's times for it, but I
really want deep personal

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relationship.
Like, let's, let's get in the

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mud.
Let me show you the I'm messed

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up, man.
Like I'm broken, like I got a

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lot of flaws.
Like I'm not going to waste

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energy.
It's kind of like I look at like

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lies only lead to more lies
typically, right?

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And so and the energy, what lie
did I tell?

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How do I keep my story together?
How do I not get caught, right?

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And there's just so much energy
that's wasted and time that's

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wasted and, and missed
opportunities because you,

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you're either believing someone
else's lie or you're worried

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about telling your own lie.
But versus just like, Hey, what

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if we just say, Hey, this is,
this is me, this is my stuff,

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same as probably your stuff or
on a similar scale, Why don't we

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stop wasting time and let's just
be real with one another 'cause

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then you can solve problems so
much faster, right?

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You can make connections so much
faster.

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And so I really have had that,
you know, and I always said to

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me when I was younger, I was
like, you people either love me

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or hate me.
I'm a very polarizing individual

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because I just really don't have
time for the BS.

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Like, let's no man, I'm broken,
you know, I got issues.

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Here they are.
Here's where I'm weak.

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Here's what I'm not so good at,
you know, here's what I need

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help with.
But here's where I'm really

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strong, you know, and then, and
I feel like when you're open and

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honest, people are like, well,
yeah, I'm struggling too.

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Then then their walls can come
down, right?

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And then we can have a real,
like we talked about a

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relationship.
How do you build that long term

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relationship, a meaningful,
impactful long term

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relationship?
Because we only have so many

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hours in a day and you can't be
that deep with every human being

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you meet, right?
So there's a there's a time

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challenge there.
So I feel like too like, OK, let

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me, we're not all meant to
resonate 100% with each other.

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So if I'm able to be authentic
and take down my walls and share

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who I am, then then I'm going to
attract the people that

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naturally, that I'm naturally
gonna mesh with better.

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And I think it just leads to an
overall more enjoyable, more

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adventurous life and more free.
I think the freedom.

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I don't have to pretend.
You don't need to pretend.

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Here we are, dude.
Let's figure it out.

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I was a terrible dad.
I was a terrible dad there.

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Totally failed.
I feel terrible about how I

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failed there.
Yeah, I can relate, man.

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I was terrible to add, you know,
and so and then, oh, you did the

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same thing.
How can we help each other?

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How can Let's talk through that?
Like where did what?

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Why did we fail where, you know?
So I very much have believed

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that from a very young age, for
whatever reason.

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I don't know why.
Yeah, that's where a lot of

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growth happens.
And that identifying, I mean,

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one, that's something you've
talked about.

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You've talked to me about that,
about being one of your

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strengths as identifying other
strengths.

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And I, I think there's a really
interesting point of

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conversation in that that I've
thought of in passing, but I've

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never completely put the two and
two together like that, where

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that, that is very true and
resonates that a lot of

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authenticity stems from the like
comfort and saying this is me,

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you know, and I've never, you
know, of course those two things

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connect, but I've never thought
about it in that way.

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Because often times, you know,
even if you don't go all the way

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to outright lies, there's people
that, you know, put on a show or

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whatever it is.
And, and I don't know, that's

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often from a place of maybe a
lot of different reasons, right,

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Inferiority, whatever it might
be.

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But it's you know that when you
can ultimately get to that

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comfort, it's like, OK, here I
am.

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And let's do it from a
leadership perspective.

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The thing that will kill, in my
opinion, one of the biggest

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killers of an effective leader,
is insecurity.

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Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Right, because then they make

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decisions based on their their
own insecurities.

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So they won't admit failure to
their team.

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They won't admit when we're So I
ran basic training, my favorite

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job.
It's probably it's probably my

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favorite job in my life is
running basic training.

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And I've run weeks and weeks and
weeks and weeks in different

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classes of basic training.
I absolutely loved it.

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What blue and you could see
really bad trainers and you

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could see really good trainers,
but like, and I was hard.

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I was my goal was always to be
the person they least wanted to

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be reprimanded by, but the
person they most wanted to be

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praised by.
And basic training is a little

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different.
Like I call basic training is a

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very pure leadership laboratory.
Combat is the next like combat

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is the that is that is the
pinnacle combat.

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That is, that is where
leadership is true and tested

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and there is no BS.
I mean, it is, it's like a time

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for it.
No, no.

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And so that's where it's in its
purest leadership is, in my

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opinion, in its purest form or
the, the, the beauty of a strong

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leader.
That's where it's going to rise

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and show.
And I, I really believe basic

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training is a similar
environment.

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There's still some, some BS that
happens, you know, with certain

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things.
But my point with that is when I

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screwed up in basic training
because I make mistakes, you

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know, I'm still a human being.
You know, I'm a captain at the

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time and I'm running base
training and I have a lot more

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experience.
I've already been in combat.

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I know a lot more.
I know more than any of the

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basics there.
But I can still screw up.

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I can still think.
I saw something one of the one

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of the the basic trainees did
and they and they didn't do it

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and I got on them for it.
And so and I was again, I was

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very hard on them.
But when I would make a mistake,

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I would sit up there in front of
all of my basics and say, I own

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this.
I punished you guys for

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something I did a mistake I
made.

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That is not OK.
So I am going to apply the same

225
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,000
punishment to myself that I that
I applied to you.

226
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,240
And so then I would just go out
there and I'd do whatever 50

227
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:12,640
push ups and I would do the 50
push ups.

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00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,240
People are afraid to admit
they're leaders are a lot of

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00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,240
leaders are afraid to admit
they're wrong because they feel

230
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,760
like, because they're insecure
with who they are.

231
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,040
And so they think I, if I admit
that I'm wrong, that's going to

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00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:26,760
make me a weaker leader.
No, no, no, no, no.

233
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,960
That's how.
You're a human being, you're

234
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,280
going to make a bad decision.
You're and a lot of times you

235
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,720
don't know the right as a
leader, you don't know what the

236
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,440
right decision is.
You're picking what you think is

237
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,240
the best course of action at
that point in time.

238
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,360
And you got to be able to, you
know, if it's the wrong course,

239
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,400
you got to be able to switch
course.

240
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:44,720
You got to be able.
That was a bad decision.

241
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,520
We're moving on.
Let's switch gears.

242
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,720
But when you're that, when
you're honest about your

243
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,720
mistakes and you, you own your
mistakes with the people that

244
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,280
you're leading, it doesn't make
them go, oh, he's a weak, he

245
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:58,920
doesn't really know.
I'm not sure I can follow that

246
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,200
person.
It has the opposite effect.

247
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,680
He's like, hey, he's owning his
stuff.

248
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,160
He's being accountable.
If he can hold himself

249
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,000
accountable, I can hold myself
accountable.

250
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,920
I actually trust him more
because he's willing to admit

251
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,560
when he's wrong, not just admit
when he's wrong.

252
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,560
He's willing to own it.
And he's not full of crap.

253
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,640
What he says to me when he's
talking to me, he lives it.

254
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,160
And that breeds that, that what
do you see?

255
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,160
I think in my team, because
there's so much trust and they

256
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,120
know that I've made so many
mistakes and they know that.

257
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:34,640
And they know that I'll own my
mistakes.

258
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,320
And they know they'll hear from
me when they make a mistake too.

259
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,080
But at the same time, it's all
like, OK, all right, how do we

260
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,040
move on?
How do we let's solve it, let's

261
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,240
learn from it, let's fix it and
let's go on.

262
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,360
But it builds that trust.
And I think that's that's that

263
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,120
insecurity, like I said, is
probably the biggest pitfall to,

264
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,440
to leadership or where you find
weakest leaders.

265
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:56,760
It's going to be an insecurity
piece.

266
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,960
Absolutely, yeah.
And then there's a couple layers

267
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,680
to that where it could be
insecurity about your own ideas,

268
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,120
or it could be insecurity or
even about like those people

269
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,600
just talking a little bit of
shit about you because you're

270
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,400
wrong.
Whatever, right?

271
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,040
You know, sure, I was wrong.
Go talk about it.

272
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:11,680
It doesn't.
Matter.

273
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:12,400
Absolutely.
Yep.

274
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,120
Let me tell you another comment.
I was more wrong.

275
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,600
Yeah, right.
Let's talk about that.

276
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,400
You think that was bad?
That way worse than that?

277
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:21,160
Absolutely.
I love that.

278
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,160
Yeah.
So I think that paired with

279
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,080
another thing that I've noticed
is it can really wrap up your

280
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,360
your leadership.
The other thing I've noticed is

281
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,160
your keen ability and
willingness to make a decision

282
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,720
and say this is how it is and
move.

283
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,440
Forward.
With it and you do that very

284
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,080
quickly and I, I think I hope
you'll share the story from your

285
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,960
military time of where you
voiced your opinion about some

286
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,200
things that you thought were
going to go wrong and it was an

287
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,000
unpopular opinion and you ended
up getting what I what I don't

288
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,440
know what the military is.
Someone overrode your decision

289
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,920
and said this is how we're going
to do and how to can you tell

290
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,280
that story?
And then can you encapsulate how

291
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,360
it's, I'm, I'm guessing this is
me presuming that it that

292
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,160
ingrained that in you even more
that you're willing to say this

293
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,800
is a hill that I'm going to die
on because this matters.

294
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,720
I'm right, you know, it's.
Funny because you've got there's

295
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,480
actually a couple different
questions there, a couple

296
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,880
different plans to go.
So the story to share is a very

297
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,960
long one is and you've heard,
you know, you've heard it

298
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:26,520
before.
I've never shared it.

299
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,920
I mean, I, I everyone processes
trauma differently, especially

300
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,400
in combat, And so a very common
way is to not talk about it,

301
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,120
keep it inside.
I've always been, again, just

302
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,640
with who I am.
Like, no, here's here's what

303
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,280
went down.
Like here's and, and it helps me

304
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,880
to share and to talk about it.
And so I like to preface kind

305
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,480
of, you know, everyone deals
with the grief, everyone deals

306
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,480
with trauma in a little bit
different manner.

307
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,800
So you've always been pretty
open with it?

308
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,280
You've always been pretty open.
OK, good.

309
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:58,160
Yeah.
Totally.

310
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,960
Now there was an article I did
and I I spoke about it when I

311
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,160
went to squadron officer school
after coming back from my last

312
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,040
deployment from Afghanistan.
This was, I deployed twice, once

313
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,240
in 2003, once in 2004, both to
Kandahar and Afghanistan.

314
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,640
I was a combat search and rescue
pilot with the HH 60 platform,

315
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,680
the Blackhawk.
It's very interesting because

316
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,240
we're trained.
The whole reason we exist as a

317
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,920
unit is to rescue downed fighter
pilots or downed pilots.

318
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,600
And you know, but yeah, you have
about a four hour window, you

319
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,720
got about a four window if a
pilot goes down.

320
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,280
Like there was an F117 pilot
that was shot down in Kosovo.

321
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,840
My squadron commander in pilot
training, Chad Franks ended

322
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,240
becoming a general, actually
rescued that F117 pilot with,

323
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,600
you know, as a, as a 60 pilot
for the Air Force Special

324
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,360
Forces.
If you get to those pilots

325
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,880
within 4 hours, you have a good
likelihood of bringing them

326
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,320
home.
If you don't get to them within

327
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,440
4 hours, you're probably not
going to get to them.

328
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,000
So that's, that's our, we have a
very niche mission, very, very

329
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,840
specific, very surgical mission.
Well, the problem with that is

330
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,480
when we have the air dominance
that we have, like in Desert

331
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,359
Storm, I mean didn't have a ton
of downed pilots.

332
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,079
When you think about Desert
Storm or just any of the

333
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:11,599
conflicts that we've had,
there's not a lot of downed

334
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,400
pilots with the F117.
And I think there's an F16 guy,

335
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,280
you hear a couple, there's an
F18 guy.

336
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,640
And I know we picked some guys
up, I think during OIF, not my,

337
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:28,040
not me, but my squadron.
But it's like, imagine you're

338
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,520
playing for an NFL football team
like the Packers and all you do

339
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,080
is practice.
You're so niche.

340
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,680
Your role is so niche.
If every if you're if you're

341
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,720
dominating, like you never need
the punter.

342
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,160
Let's just say you score on
every single drive.

343
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,840
You never punt.
That was our unit where punters,

344
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,440
right?
We're there for a very niche or

345
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,800
very, very real, very powerful,
very important mission.

346
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,720
When someone goes down, no one
goes down, there's nothing to

347
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,760
do, right?
There's very little to do.

348
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,480
And so you train and train and
train and you're training at

349
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,440
that elite a level, but you
never get to apply your trade,

350
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,160
you never get to practice, you
never actually get to kick in a

351
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,200
game or, you know, and so that
was kind of an over what I say

352
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:16,160
is coming into the community,
that was a prevailing pressure

353
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,240
that existed on the community.
Like this need to like, we want

354
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,960
to be a part like all this is
happening. 911's happened.

355
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:25,240
We want to defend our country.
That's why we signed up.

356
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,240
We want to be in the game.
We want to be helping.

357
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:32,520
And so Afghanistan, OEF opened
up so many opportunities for our

358
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,240
unit because there was so much
going on.

359
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,600
We were we, you know, our unit
was boots on the ground very,

360
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,400
very early in the conflict.
And we were doing a lot of

361
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,080
really guys getting Silver Stars
left and right, really crazy

362
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,120
missions, like really intense
missions, really meaningful

363
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:52,760
missions, right?
And wow, we're part of the game,

364
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,240
we're in it and we're we're
excelling like we are, we're a

365
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,600
great punter like we're you
know, this is, you know, and so

366
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,120
the whole community see we are
important.

367
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:05,800
Like you can see us now as the
conflict went on again, we're

368
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,160
more and more control.
And so then we start taking on

369
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,480
different missions that we
weren't training for.

370
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,360
And so it created.
So when we would stateside, like

371
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,600
we're spinning up to go to
Afghanistan, I'm all of my

372
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,160
training sorties are fighting
radar threats, trying to defeat,

373
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,880
you know, these these radar
guided surface to air missiles.

374
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,360
There's no functioning radar in
Afghanistan.

375
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,680
I don't have a role in chasing
me down with it with that can

376
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,440
would eat a helicopter alive.
It doesn't exist, you know, and

377
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,440
we're flying at night, you know,
you know, we're not flying

378
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,400
during the day.
So just the threats that we're

379
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,080
fighting and training didn't
equate to the threats that we

380
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,360
were actually the missions we
were taking, we were very

381
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:52,760
different than what we were
trained to.

382
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,760
So we ended up doing a lot of
medevac mission, essentially the

383
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,160
the worst it was ironically the
the Army helicopter pilots

384
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,320
probably have.
They have thousands of hours of

385
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,280
helicopter time 'cause they,
they're Warrant Officer

386
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,520
programmed to do things
differently.

387
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,320
We're doing all these additional
duties.

388
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,880
Our primary job isn't
necessarily flying, which is,

389
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,680
which was eye opening for me and
very frustrating.

390
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,560
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's truly crazy.

391
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,760
So I'm a young copilot, maybe I
have 500 hours and I'm in the,

392
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,480
you know, I'm in the, the left
seat, the pilot, the ACS in the

393
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,880
right seat.
And maybe he has 1500 hours.

394
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,640
Whereas an Army pilot, they got
5000 in one seat, maybe 10,000

395
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,160
in the other seat.
The missions they're saying

396
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,000
we're not going to go on, we're
raising our hand for like, oh,

397
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,120
wait a minute, yeah, 15,000
hours of combined time versus

398
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,760
1500 hours of combined time.
They're saying no, why are we

399
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,920
saying yes?
And when combat search and

400
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,240
rescue, you have to launch right
now, you have 4 hours you got to

401
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,440
launch.
So literally, So when we get a

402
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,880
call, I'm in a tent.
You know you, we're all in our

403
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,840
tent.
We're doing whatever we're

404
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,560
doing.
We're we're on call.

405
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,080
So we're in uniform, we're
waiting and a call comes in.

406
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,920
The aircraft commander runs to
the top, the tactical operation

407
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,080
center.
They're getting debriefed on

408
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,640
what the mission is.
I grab my shit and I'm running

409
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,480
to the helicopter.
I go through all the checks, I

410
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,200
get the helicopter, I got the
blades, I got the engines

411
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,480
running.
I got the blades turning.

412
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,640
I got everything ready to go.
Pilot jumps in.

413
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,160
I'm taxiing us.
You know the the PJ, the pair

414
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,160
rescue PJS are in the back.
We got the gun or the flight

415
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,120
engineer.
They're on the back.

416
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,320
Aircrafts, aircrafts all dialed
in and we're getting off the

417
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:28,800
ground.
I have no idea why we've

418
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,240
launched.
You don't even know why you

419
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:30,880
went.
That's a clue.

420
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:31,800
Wild.
No clue.

421
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,240
That's crazy.
I.

422
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,560
Have no clue where we're going.
I have no clue why we're going.

423
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,320
I have no clue what we're doing.
I have no clue.

424
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,360
And you're captain?
At this time, I'm a captain, but

425
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:42,680
I'm a copilot at this time.
And so, so then as we're taking

426
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,880
off, as we take off and we get
in route, like the, because of

427
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,160
the aircraft commanders putting
the route in the system.

428
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,200
And, and so I'm just kind of
flying and, and then he back

429
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,000
briefs us all on what's going on
and what we're doing as we're,

430
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,080
as we're flying.
And so that's the, that's how

431
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,240
we're trained.
Well, for a four hour window,

432
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,440
that's important when you're
trying to get a down pilot and

433
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,000
you get 4 hours.
That's really, really important.

434
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,880
If it's a medevac mission, you
don't need to do that.

435
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,240
There are cases where you get
troops in contact.

436
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,720
It might still be that sort of
situation.

437
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,640
But at this point in time, when
I was there in Afghanistan, it

438
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,680
was a lot of winning the hearts
and minds.

439
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,120
So we were doing a lot of
picking up local Afghanis.

440
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:21,960
Again, not there's nothing wrong
with that.

441
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,400
It's not a bad.
Winning the hearts and the minds

442
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,800
of the locals, correct?
Yeah, they have a, you know,

443
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,160
there was a conflict and maybe,
you know, in the one mission,

444
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,640
the mission that we launched on
where we lost, lost a helicopter

445
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,560
and lost someone was a local
Afghani national.

446
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,920
They were having their first
election, which is a big deal,

447
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,880
or maybe it was their second.
Any rate, it was a big deal.

448
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:46,040
And the had a local Afghani was
hired by the UN to be security

449
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,760
forces for the people collecting
the votes.

450
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,320
So the Taliban and whatnot
wouldn't, wouldn't kill him.

451
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,520
The security officer
accidentally discharged his

452
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,800
weapon and shot the guy he's
supposed to be protecting on

453
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,680
accident, on accident in the
middle of the freaking

454
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,040
mountains.
And by the way, the worst place

455
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,200
on the planet for our helicopter
to be is Afghanistan.

456
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,000
I mean, there's maybe Korea, it
would be worse.

457
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,560
But I, I mean, from everything
about it is designed to destroy

458
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,800
our helicopter.
It's just not we are

459
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,160
underpowered.
Our aircraft was designed to fly

460
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,560
at a Max combat build on it,
16,825 lbs.

461
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,800
That's what the airframe is
rated for engine for.

462
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,080
We were operating at 22,000 lbs
gross operating rate all the

463
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,840
time.
On every mission we'd come back

464
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,280
and there'd be structural cracks
in the frame.

465
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,160
They'd have to take them to
depot to come complete em

466
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,000
resurface.
So 6000 lbs over what the plane

467
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,680
aircraft was designed
consistently.

468
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,400
So we wouldn't have at that
density altitude, the

469
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,400
temperatures, the high
altitudes, the dust, we didn't

470
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,360
have power.
So we're essentially for trying.

471
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,080
We're not really a landing,
we're controlled crashing.

472
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,720
It's not a good recipe, right?
You don't have a lot of Oz.

473
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,480
And that's the other thing too.
You have, you're supposed to

474
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,080
have escape routes and you just
don't have them up in the

475
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,680
mountains.
You don't have the power for it.

476
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,320
You're Browning out at crazy
high altitudes.

477
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,480
The whole point of all that is
we didn't train.

478
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,240
We weren't training for all
that.

479
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,360
This is what we're going into.
And so we were applying our

480
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:12,000
tactics to a mission that didn't
require those tactics.

481
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,560
And we were very good at them,
but they weren't necessarily

482
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,800
what we really needed to be
doing was taking a step back and

483
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,680
say, whoa, whoa, whoa, what risk
are we?

484
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,520
What, what's the mission?
Are we willing to risk 2

485
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,760
helicopters and six souls on
board of each helicopter?

486
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,880
Are we willing to risk 12 human
lives for this mission?

487
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,480
Who are we saving?
What are we saving them for?

488
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,880
Can we wait?
Cause a lot of the missions, the

489
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,320
Army was saying we can wait,
they'll be fine, they'll make it

490
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,960
till the morning.
Bring in Chinooks, Siege 47,

491
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,440
they got power for days, for
days.

492
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,560
They don't have any of the
problems that we have and

493
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,280
they're just saying, hey, we're
going to wait.

494
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,960
We'll get them in the morning.
OK, Why aren't we saying that?

495
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,080
Right?
But I go, no, we got we got

496
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,880
these, we'll go.
And after my first tour, we came

497
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,160
close, you know, we had some
real, real problems.

498
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,280
And I was like, what are we
doing as a leader?

499
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,360
I'm thinking, one, we're not
training the right way for this

500
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:12,520
mission 1 is a different
mission.

501
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,840
We should be training
differently.

502
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,080
We don't need to be launching an
alert mode if it's a down US

503
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,240
pilot or we got troops in
contact, OK all day.

504
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:25,600
It's a local Afghani.
It's a winning the hearts and

505
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,520
minds or it's someone that's
stabilized.

506
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,840
There's no conflict.
Even if it's, you know, an Army

507
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,080
guy or a Marine, hey, he's
stable or, you know, he's here.

508
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,800
We can, we can, he can be.
The Army's saying they'll get

509
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,280
him tomorrow and they have a
confidence level that he's going

510
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,920
to be OK.
OK, we can accept that too.

511
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,200
All right.
We don't necessarily.

512
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,160
There might be situations where
we have to go, but most of the

513
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,120
missions we don't.
And if we're going to go, let's

514
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:50,840
take our time, slow things down.
Let's get everyone on board.

515
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,520
Let's really think through how
we're going to do this.

516
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,280
Don't apply this we got to get
him in four hours mentality and

517
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,000
then OK, high altitude hovers in
brownout conditions.

518
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,360
That's a different animal.
You know, we should not have

519
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,320
spent any time training for
radar threats because they were

520
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,880
none.
So really just after my first

521
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,920
time, I'm like, and I was
talking to a lot of the guys

522
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760
that were former Army pilots
that are now Air Force pilots

523
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,400
and they're like, dude, this is
insane.

524
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,080
What we're doing is insane.
I'm like, yeah, I feel it like

525
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:23,720
I'm a young copilot.
I'm scared shitless, you know, I

526
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,040
don't know what I'm doing.
I'm not trained for this and I'm

527
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,320
about to die, you know, or we
could die like I could.

528
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,840
I could sense like this is this
is scary shit, you know?

529
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,840
And so we weren't getting shot
at.

530
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,200
I mean, we people would shoot at
us, but I mean, there was no

531
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,520
directed fire.
You know, we're at night, we're

532
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,000
low level.
I mean, they couldn't see,

533
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,760
they're shooting at sound most
of the time, you know?

534
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,240
So for me now, there were other
missions after me that I know

535
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,240
that in in before me where we
were taking, we had aircraft

536
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,000
take rounds and stuff like that.
But the time I was there, we

537
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,280
weren't experiencing that.
So we'd get fired upon.

538
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,360
But it wasn't anything that it's
not like I was ever really

539
00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:58,920
worried.
We almost got hit there.

540
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,120
You know, it wasn't.
That wasn't the threat when I

541
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,120
was there.
It was self induced risk.

542
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,720
You were worried.
About correct.

543
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,440
And so when I'm talking to these
other Army pilots that are all

544
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,120
like, dude, this is insane.
Like I cannot believe we should

545
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:12,560
not be doing this.
And I'm like, so I'm looking and

546
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,840
I'm thinking kind of naive in a,
in a sense that I'm an office

547
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,160
before I'm a pilot, I'm an
officer, I'm a leader.

548
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,320
I'm responsible for the lives on
this aircraft.

549
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:27,880
I'm responsible for this
aircraft multi $1,000,000

550
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:31,480
government asset.
And I'm responsible for, more

551
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,760
importantly, I'm responsible for
all these lives on board, these

552
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,360
guys that I've lived with, that
I trained with.

553
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:41,960
And they're looking to me to
lead them and my IT, I have a

554
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,120
responsibility to do right by
them and to lead them.

555
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,360
If I'm going to take them into
harm's way, you'd better be for

556
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:53,120
freaking good reason when we
better be in the best position

557
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,080
to win.
If we're not, what the hell am I

558
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,040
doing?
Why am I there?

559
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,440
And what has happened?
And this happens everywhere.

560
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,840
It's a corporation at the end of
the day.

561
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,120
It's a big, I mean, government,
it's a big government

562
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:06,840
corporation.
People start worrying more about

563
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,040
their careers, how they get
promoted, how they move up the

564
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,280
ranks.
Squeaky wheels don't move up the

565
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,080
ranks, right?
We just don't.

566
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,680
And so, but when I came back,
I'm like, Hey, we can make this

567
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:20,440
better.
We can do this.

568
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,960
We can, we need to train, we
need to change our spin up

569
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,640
training.
We need to change this, we need

570
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,560
to do this.
We're operating in a different

571
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:28,960
mission.
We're operating in a different

572
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,080
environment.
You know, we can do better and

573
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,520
we can protect our people and we
can still do a mission.

574
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,640
We can still be important, but
in a, in a, in a way that's more

575
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,240
responsible and, and, and it
makes more sense for our guys,

576
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,440
our, our, our guys and girls
that we're leading.

577
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,640
And so I came back at all these
ideas and I'm sharing all these

578
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,280
ideas with leadership and I'm
like, we need completely deaf

579
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,440
ears.
And again, it's part of it's

580
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,720
that institutionalization,
right?

581
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,360
Just this is the way we've
always done it.

582
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,440
This is the way we're going to
keep doing it.

583
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,520
Who are you young copilot?
You have $500.

584
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,200
You don't know shit, don't tell
it, you know, and that that

585
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,880
pervasive mentality, you know,
prevented us from really

586
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,080
flexing.
We needed to flex, we needed to

587
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,640
adapt, we needed to change to to
the environment.

588
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,080
And we didn't honestly, in my
estimation, for because of

589
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,600
political reasons or career
career political reasons, right.

590
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,680
It's just, or maybe it was too
much work or I don't know, you

591
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,240
know, there's a lot of reasons.
But I kept saying, Hey, we need

592
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,480
to change our spin up program
and I'll, I'm like, I'll do the

593
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:38,800
work.
You know what I mean?

594
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,240
I'll do the work, I'll take the
sun and I was just poo poo, poo,

595
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,680
poo poo pooed.
And so then we go to our next

596
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,040
deployment.
I was paired with a pilot

597
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,800
initially that I, I didn't trust
their, their skills as a pilot.

598
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,840
And I'm like, and then we go to
spin up training and it's all

599
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,440
the same shit.
I'm going to go to the range and

600
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,120
I'm going to try to defeat radar
threats.

601
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,960
It's not what's going to kill me
over there.

602
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,800
You know, high altitude hovers
and brownout conditions,

603
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,560
brownout landings, going on
missions I shouldn't, trying to

604
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,440
land in places I shouldn't.
That's what's going to kill me.

605
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,320
That's what we need to be
training for.

606
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,960
What are we going to say no to?
I want to know what we're really

607
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,360
going to say no to.
We should be saying no to a lot

608
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:19,520
of these missions that we're
taking.

609
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,200
And, and I'm like, I got to the
point where I just felt so

610
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,120
convicted.
I'm like, I we are going to lose

611
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,720
a helicopter.
We're going to crash.

612
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,520
We're going to kill someone
because we're so irresponsible

613
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,280
with how we're doing this.
And I go as an officer, as a

614
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,880
leader.
I can't, I can't allow that.

615
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,880
I, I know that as a captain, as
a young captain, I only have so

616
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,040
much power, right?
Which is very little.

617
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,440
But I need to be able to look
myself in the mirror.

618
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,160
If, if something goes wrong, I
need to be able to say that I

619
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,240
tried to stop it.
I tried.

620
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,560
And so I actually got to the
point and I didn't sleep.

621
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,840
I didn't really eat for like a
week because I was so like, I

622
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,320
cannot deploy.
I cannot go on this deployment.

623
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,440
And so I went in after about a
week, I went in and I talked to

624
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,920
the the squad commander was
deployed.

625
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:21,720
So I went and talked to the
deputy commander and I said, I'm

626
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,840
trading in my wings.
I'm done.

627
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,480
I'm not deploying, I'm not
flying anymore.

628
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,720
I cannot be a part of this.
And he's like, oh, you know

629
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,080
what?
What?

630
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,840
Which is a wild conversation to
have, right?

631
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,400
Like, that's a wild thing to go
up to.

632
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,880
Nobody does that.
Nobody does that.

633
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,680
Yeah, Nobody does that.
I had no idea that why I

634
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,760
couldn't sleep, why I couldn't
eat.

635
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,200
Am I gonna, they're gonna just.
They're gonna dishonorably

636
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,560
discharge me.
Are they?

637
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,520
Am I gonna, they're OK.
You're gonna go be a security

638
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,240
force guy or you're gonna.
We're gonna find the worst job

639
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,400
in the military we can throw
you.

640
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,520
You're gonna be in, you know,
freaking Iceland.

641
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,000
No, Iceland's great.
You're gonna be in Greenland or

642
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,280
you're gonna be stuck somewhere
where, you know, we're just

643
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,320
gonna.
Yeah, I had no idea what was

644
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,000
gonna.
I mean, from my perspective at

645
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,360
that time, my life is over.
Like I've worked my whole life

646
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,280
to become a pilot.
I've worked my whole life to get

647
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,080
to this point and I'm at the
pinnacle.

648
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,880
You know, we're in the elite.
You know, I am with I am on the

649
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,480
mountaintop.
He says some of the most there's

650
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,760
there's more elite, but we're at
we're on that area of ability.

651
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,880
You know, there's very few
people that can do what we do.

652
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,920
And I've made it.
That's my dream my whole life.

653
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,400
And now I'm just turning that
in.

654
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,440
Like really, I'm going to do
this, You know, I'm going to

655
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,800
blow my life up over this.
And, and as a leader, yes, yes,

656
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,920
that's what being a leader
sometimes means.

657
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:45,480
And so I saw and he's like the
guy, the guy, the whole meeting

658
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,320
just went.
I was totally taken aback by how

659
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,760
the meeting went, 'cause I'm
expecting that to get dragged

660
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,440
out and 'cause but I'm just
thinking, oh man, the world's

661
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,040
going to come crashing down.
I learned something really

662
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:58,960
leadership wise, really
important here.

663
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,920
But the commander looks at me,
the deputy commander looks at

664
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,000
me.
He goes, what do I got to do to

665
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,800
make you stay?
I'm like, of all the scenarios I

666
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,640
played out in my head, that was
not one of them.

667
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,120
And I'm like, what?
He said, wait, because he goes,

668
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,960
well, let me, he goes at what?
Why are you where you know, why

669
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,320
are you saying this?
Why are you coming here?

670
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,560
Like, and I just laid out
everything I just told you.

671
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,960
I said we are.
And I told him at point blank

672
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,480
and they had a guy, they had the
executive officer there taking

673
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,440
notes.
I said sure, we are going to

674
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,080
crash a helicopter and we're
going to kill someone for no

675
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,720
reason.
That's what's going to happen.

676
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,960
And I go, I cannot, I go.
I've tried to change it.

677
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,200
I've tried to echo the my
sentiments with there's other

678
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,000
people that feel this way.
This, this is not out of left

679
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,640
field.
There's sound reason here.

680
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,880
You guys are not listening.
We are not ready.

681
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,080
We're still going to take
missions we shouldn't take.

682
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,640
We're going to kill someone.
We have to change the way we're

683
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,680
doing things.
And I said I can as it is today,

684
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,360
I cannot be a part of it.
I cannot as an officer, I cannot

685
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,159
sign on to this any longer.
So I'm out.

686
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,920
And that's when he said, OK,
well, I hear you.

687
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,880
Changing all the things that I
want to change is way harder for

688
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,440
him than just Dan, what can I do
for you to make you stay?

689
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,760
And I was like, mind blown.
And that's the leadership lesson

690
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,199
you're talking about that you
got there like how we evaluated

691
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,560
that.
Yeah, I think what I most people

692
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,960
take the path of least
resistance.

693
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080
When you see bad leadership or
you see bad organizations or you

694
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,800
see things, it's because they
don't want to do the hard thing

695
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,560
when they could be risking their
career.

696
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,040
What I mean, and and a lot of
times what happens, what happens

697
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,120
when you're really good at what
you do a lot of times is just

698
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,880
your reward is getting more work
all the time, right?

699
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,120
Oh, you handled that great.
I got another problem here, take

700
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,280
this.
And that's what was happening to

701
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,160
me too, as I was doing a really
good job and the things I was

702
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,080
doing.
So they just kept putting my

703
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,640
work on me and I'm, I kind of
took an office space mentality.

704
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,240
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
shouldn't you know I'm OK

705
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:07,760
working.
I have no problem working hard,

706
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,600
but if all you're going to do is
keep stacking more stuff on me,

707
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,120
I'm and I'm watching people next
to me that aren't working so

708
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,800
hard having a lot easier life
like.

709
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,600
Well, you're well, you're
feeling all these feelings.

710
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,840
Well, you're seeing all these
things that you don't have trust

711
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,840
or faith in the person making
the decision that controls the

712
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,560
outcome.
Right, absolutely.

713
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,600
So at some point in time, like
I'm an idiot, like I'm if I see

714
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,120
all this, why am I willingly
being a participant in this?

715
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,240
So I told him, I said, look, I
said I'm honestly sure I was not

716
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,080
expecting this response.
Can I have 24 hours?

717
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,200
I want to talk to my family.
I want to talk to some people I

718
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,240
trust.
And, and then can I, can I come

719
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,440
back to you in 24 hours?
He said absolutely.

720
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,520
So yeah, I talked to my family,
talk to people that I trust in

721
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,160
the community.
And so I was like, OK, first,

722
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,120
like, so I was on the lead bird.
Halo 41 was the lead bird.

723
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,800
I was slated to be on the
aircraft commander in Halo 4.

724
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,600
Two was my best friend.
And I'm not using names in any

725
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,040
of these stories intentionally.
He's my best friend.

726
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,360
He's actually my best man at my
wedding.

727
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,400
I trusted him with my life and
he was the aircraft commander.

728
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,960
And I'm like, so OK, so first
thing is I'm not flying with on

729
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,040
that bird.
I will only deploy with my with

730
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,440
this guy is my aircraft
commander.

731
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,640
That's the only way I deploy is
if I am his copilot, that's it.

732
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:29,920
And he's like, OK, no problem.
Except I said I go I'm I'm done

733
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,160
with deploying.
I'm done with fighting this

734
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,200
version of war.
Whatever we want to call what

735
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,160
we're doing, I'm done with it.
So I want to go at the time we

736
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,320
had a, there was a base up in
Reykjavik, Iceland.

737
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,120
I'm like, you know what, it's a
good place.

738
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,800
There's a great, it was a great
base.

739
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,480
There's a lot of really cool.
You just learned a lot of you

740
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,320
had a lot of cool different
experiences and you learned a

741
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,160
lot, a lot of water work.
And I hadn't done any really

742
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,480
water work with the helicopter.
And like, I want to go to

743
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,120
Reykjavik.
And so I need to, I need to

744
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,000
really be removed from what were
the deployment cycle that we're

745
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,160
on and the war, the way we're
fighting this war.

746
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,680
I need to be out of it and I try
and like, I really want to go in

747
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,480
the reserves now I'm kind of
done because it would kill my,

748
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,880
it really had killed my, my love
of flying kind of died in

749
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,120
Afghanistan, honestly.
And so I was kind of feeling,

750
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,840
well, maybe I just need to get
out, you know, And I saw I was

751
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,320
single at time.
I saw what married families went

752
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,080
through.
And I'm like, I just don't want,

753
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,640
I don't want to put a wife, my
wife, my future wife.

754
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,600
I don't want to put her through
that.

755
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,080
I don't want to put my kids
through this.

756
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,560
So I was like, maybe I just need
to get out like because family

757
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,200
is important to me.
I want to start a family, but I

758
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,800
don't want them going through
this.

759
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,320
And so I'd ask, you know, he
goes, well, I don't know if I

760
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,000
can get you out because you have
a 10 year.

761
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,520
I have a 10 year commitment and
I'd only been in well as I

762
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,800
graduated 2000.
So I'd only been in four years

763
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,120
at this point.
I still have six years on my

764
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,240
commitment.
It's a lot of money to trade in

765
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:55,600
pilot and go through, go through
everything that we've went

766
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,040
through.
And so he's like, I don't think

767
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,240
I can do that because I can
definitely get you.

768
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:02,240
He goes, you do this tour, we'll
get you to Iceland.

769
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,120
We'll we'll do the PCs for you
to Iceland.

770
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,520
You'll fly with the aircraft
commander of your choice.

771
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,320
And he goes, OK, and he goes.
He goes, will that solve the

772
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,680
problem?
I said OK, I'll go.

773
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,440
And he got you to weight balance
the weight of everything you

774
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,320
wanted to get ultimately to
squash the issue.

775
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:24,080
Right.
Yeah.

776
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,080
He, he took the path of losers
just to make the issue go away

777
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,560
100%.
And now whether or not he

778
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,040
believed, you know me, what I
was saying, you know, I, I don't

779
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,440
whatever he believed or thought,
obviously the, the biggest

780
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,160
thing, especially 'cause he's
deputy commander.

781
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,000
So now there's a problem with
the squadron commander's not

782
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,520
there.
So it's really like, there's

783
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,600
that part of it too, like, OK,
I, how do I just maybe push this

784
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,120
off to where maybe the squadron
commander when he gets back, let

785
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,440
me just push, let me just kick
this can down the road a little

786
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:52,480
bit.
So there, there could have been

787
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,240
a little bit of that too, but it
was, it was by far.

788
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,320
Now he doesn't have to go to the
base commander, the Wing

789
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,000
Commander to say, Hey, I got a
pilot that's turning in his

790
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,520
wings.
And then he has to answer all

791
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,360
the questions.
Why?

792
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,880
Because then he has to say, then
they got to talk to me.

793
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,400
Well, here's why.
Let me tell you why.

794
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,880
Let me tell you what we're doing
all of a sudden now we got a

795
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,760
spotlight on.
I said maybe we don't want, we

796
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,760
don't want to, you know, we want
to keep our facade.

797
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,080
Yep, absolutely.
Right.

798
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,560
So that's what that's what got
me to, to say and go on the

799
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:27,320
second deployment.
You know, when, when we got

800
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:33,360
there, we do a kind of a mock.
You do a, a mock spin up or a

801
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,120
mock like you get a, a fake call
in.

802
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,400
It's practice.
Fake call comes in, we spin up,

803
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,320
I go into a helicopter, we do
the whole gambit.

804
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,200
And then we come in and debrief
everything and just make sure we

805
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,360
got before we go live, make sure
that the crews or everyone's got

806
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,840
everything down.
And we launched and with the

807
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,480
mission we launched on in that
mock thing was it was a local

808
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,440
Afghani.
And I'll give you back.

809
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,640
Sorry, there was a mission.
I wasn't on this mission.

810
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,080
We had guys launch through a 12
hour mission for a local Afghani

811
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,920
woman who at the end of the day
was constipated.

812
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:19,280
We risked 2 helicopters, 12
lives, spent all that gas for a

813
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,640
constipated woman and like, they
weren't all that bad.

814
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,480
That was one case where it, and
there's a whole, I won't go to

815
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,440
the litany of reasons of what,
how that happens.

816
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,920
There's things that are, there's
things on the ground that drive

817
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,880
some of these that they make
things sound bigger.

818
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,960
Like we didn't know.
We didn't know when we launched

819
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,120
that it was just a constipated
woman.

820
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,360
They made it sound because they
just want to get the problem.

821
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,480
They kind of want to move the
thing off their plate, right?

822
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,120
So if I make it, if I make it
sound worse, let me get this out

823
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,360
of here then.
And so that was and so that was

824
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,440
some of the stuff.
But we were learning that we we

825
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,480
knew we couldn't trust
everything that was coming down.

826
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,320
So let's be a little bit
smarter, right?

827
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,960
Let's be a little bit anyway, So
when on this mock up, we had

828
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,760
launched again, it was a it was
a for a kind of a local Afghani.

829
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,600
I think it was for a wounded
person that was would have made

830
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,160
it through the night.
They were going to live anyway

831
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,600
in the scenario and the place
that we landed on was so high.

832
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,400
And I'm like looking at the
numbers, I'm like, we don't have

833
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,600
the power for that landing.
Like what?

834
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,480
What was our thought process?
Because again, I was the

835
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,200
copilot.
I wasn't there plotting out the

836
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:23,520
mission or anything.
I go, what was our thought

837
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,720
process?
How, how are we landing and we

838
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:33,160
don't have the power.
So no, it would have been a what

839
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,080
I'll call a controlled crash
essentially.

840
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,480
So if that, if the landing goes
perfectly fine, you're going to

841
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,240
be OK.
It was on a, it was on a kind of

842
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:45,400
a Cliff.
So the way you, you can't take

843
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,120
off, you don't have the power.
You have a power to kind of lift

844
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,320
and drive yourself off the edge.
Just drive off the Cliff.

845
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:52,920
And then gain your airspeed to
go.

846
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,640
That was it.
That was our that was our plan.

847
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,760
I'm like, what in the are we
doing?

848
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,240
Why are we launching on that
mission?

849
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:09,680
We have no business again, ACH
47 down, up out easy, you know,

850
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:11,400
and so we actually had a huge
fight.

851
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,520
There was a huge I was and I was
going, I was, I was

852
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,040
aggressively, I was standing up,
I was aggressively fighting

853
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,520
majors and NCO senior NCOS.
And when I remember there's a

854
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,080
line from one of the NCOS like,
well, my swords getting rusty,

855
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,360
saying we need to keep fighting
the fight, keep our swords

856
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,120
sharp, you know, like your sword
being rusty is a stupid reason

857
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,720
to die, man.
That's not the right reason to

858
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,440
die.
We, there's a balance that needs

859
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,360
to be struck here.
And it got so heated that

860
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,720
actually the, the flight
commander dismissed everyone.

861
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:48,280
It was just me and my pot, my
aircraft commander and, and the

862
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,360
flight lead, which was a new
flight lead, by the way, was not

863
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:51,920
the original flight lead that I
said I would not fly with.

864
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,680
So they actually got a different
pilot in, which was good.

865
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,160
And he's a, he's a great, great
dude and a great pilot.

866
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,520
But again, there was just that.
This is how we do business,

867
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,440
right?
There's just that pervasive.

868
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,360
This is the way we've done
things.

869
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,680
We don't want to rock the boat.
This is why we're going to do

870
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,840
things.
You just need to listen.

871
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,360
You need to follow.
I'm a fucking officer.

872
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,600
I got to lead at some point.
I got to lead.

873
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,440
And if my, my, everything in my
being is telling me this is

874
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,000
wrong, I'm not just going to
stay quiet, I'm going to fight.

875
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,680
And so kind of got hashed out,
at any rate, literally a couple

876
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:29,880
weeks later, we launched on a
mission.

877
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,880
Same.
And it was all the things we

878
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,400
spent.
We were in the, I don't know,

879
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,000
we're in this, it's all
mountains and there's just a big

880
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,600
bowl.
And we do what's called a high,

881
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,280
low Recon.
So you do a high Recon and this

882
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,600
should take 15 minutes. 30
minutes at the absolute Max is

883
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,480
what it should take.
You do a high high Recon because

884
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:54,880
every landing is different than
a helicopter.

885
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,400
Flying a helicopter is so much
more difficult than flying an

886
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,760
airplane.
It's just crazy because

887
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,080
conditions change.
Every landing's different, every

888
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,120
take off's different.
You had to recalculate

889
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,840
everything every single time.
So we're you do a high Recon,

890
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,200
you're circling, you're looking
for escape routes, you know,

891
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:13,240
you're looking for different
obstacles, you're looking for

892
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:15,400
the right approach angle.
And am I going to do a steep

893
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,800
approach, going to do a shallow
approach, looking at all these

894
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,800
different factors And then, OK,
I think we have a plan from a

895
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,720
high Recon.
Then you drop down, do it, get

896
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:26,400
close to the ground to a low
Recon.

897
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:31,960
OK, how much slope is on the LZ?
You know, is it are we going to

898
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,400
have a brownout condition in the
LZ?

899
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,800
Just again, escape angles just
re evaluating everywhere the

900
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,360
winds coming out of.
I want to make sure I'm coming,

901
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,960
coming into the wind and now if
I come in can I get out?

902
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,680
How am I going to get out?
And in all of that stuff it took

903
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:54,720
us an hour, a full hour, 2
aircraft circling figure out how

904
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:57,640
we were going to get in there.
There was no way in there.

905
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,120
There is and there was 1
riverbed that was an escape,

906
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,760
potential escape, but it was
just we should never have tried

907
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,040
to land and it was again, it was
for that local Afghani that

908
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,920
security detail accidentally
shot him in the arm who survived

909
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,040
to the morning by the way.
So we didn't need to launch.

910
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,840
So we do the Hilo Recon and
flight lead has a plan.

911
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:25,680
It is an interesting this is an
interesting detail.

912
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,600
Typically the two I was in the
second bird.

913
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,600
So typically 2 is the bird that
would go in and there's a small

914
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:33,760
detail.
This is, it's interesting how

915
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:39,080
these little details usually the
we bring the PJ's bring blood,

916
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:40,760
you know, because the guy's
bleeding out.

917
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,360
So they got to do blood
transfusions and stuff like

918
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,120
that.
So for whatever reason, and I

919
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,760
don't even know that I don't
know what happened in the PJ

920
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,720
with the PJ's or how it
happened, but somehow the blood,

921
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:53,040
all the blood ended up on the
lead bird.

922
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,200
So they had to go in, which
again, is not how we typically

923
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,400
not that it necessarily matters
per SE, but it's just an

924
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,120
interesting detail.
It should have been us going

925
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,200
should have been the second Halo
4 two should have been the one

926
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,960
going in, but we didn't have the
blood.

927
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,440
And that kind of came out
through our high low Recon,

928
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,840
like, oh, where's the blood?
Oh, shoot, OK, well, lead, you

929
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,960
got to go.
And so lead started coming in

930
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,600
and this is everything they they
brown out.

931
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,040
I mean, at high altitude, you
know, 200 feet or plus and a

932
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,280
brown out, essentially you're
flying in a ping pong ball.

933
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,080
You have no frame of reference.
You can't you, your body's

934
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,280
telling you you're swaying to
the right or you're sinking or

935
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,640
but you're not, you're doing the
opposite.

936
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,160
But you, you, so you get
spatially disoriented.

937
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,320
So you'll do things.
That's how a lot of people die.

938
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,040
You see people die, they don't
have instrument training.

939
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,480
It's because they get spatially
disoriented.

940
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,160
Well, when you're in a brown
out, you're in a full dis

941
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,520
spatial disorientation.
You, you can't see anything.

942
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,600
So you have to fly total.
You got a little 6 by 6 window.

943
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,640
It's like a computer.
It's a crosshairs circle and a

944
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,120
square once giving you your,
your position, once giving your

945
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,720
velocity, once giving your
acceleration.

946
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,680
If you got them all stacked on
top of each other, you're not

947
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,680
moving, you're staying in the
same place.

948
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,520
But you could be, you know, you
could, your velocity could be

949
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,480
moving one way and then the
circle could be rapidly going

950
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,840
back the other way because
you're changing your

951
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,320
acceleration.
And it's a different way to fly,

952
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,600
to try to fly off a 6 by 6, you
know, and it's an infrared

953
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,240
screen.
It's, it's, it's, you got to

954
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:21,200
practice if you're not used to
it.

955
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,480
And again, it's, you don't want
to land that way.

956
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,320
It's not designed to land that
way.

957
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:32,240
But that's what they got browned
out really bad and the, they hit

958
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:35,400
the side of the mountain and
they rolled down over 1000 feet.

959
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:40,480
The, the helicopter rolled.
So now we spent the next we did

960
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,440
2 air refuelings, 2 ground
refuelings.

961
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,560
I was in the seat for 14 hours.
It was a 14 hour.

962
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,640
I was in the seat for 14 being
my pilot and my we, we almost

963
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,960
died.
We tried get to extract them.

964
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,240
We knew we couldn't land.
We didn't have we didn't have

965
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:02,640
the power to do a high altitude
hover to try to, you know, to so

966
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,320
we had a a hoist that we could
try to pull him up 'cause we had

967
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:07,960
critically the PJ was critically
wounded.

968
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:16,200
Our flight engineer was killed
on impact on that on Halo 41. 21

969
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:24,920
year old kid and the PJ was was
in serious.

970
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,720
The PJ was in serious condition.
There was 2 PJS but the other

971
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:30,680
one was OK.
Is PJ Parachute?

972
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,520
Para rescue man, people don't
know who they are.

973
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,720
They're bad ass Air Force
special operators.

974
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:41,840
I mean, they go through a two
year pipeline 2 years before

975
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,600
they're actually ready.
The things they do, the things

976
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,600
they can do and there's so many,
there's some Paris that came off

977
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:55,640
a off AC130 gunship and they
fucking, I'll tell you what

978
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,000
they, what they did is just
amazing.

979
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,320
I mean how they they came in and
really saved this letter.

980
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,880
Paris man's life.
The ones of the ones that it.

981
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,040
Crashed that.
It crashed, yeah.

982
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,040
So we come in, we come back
around, we brown on it, 200

983
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,680
feet.
We've already, we've thrown our

984
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,880
guns off the side of the board,
off the side of the air.

985
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,120
We had thrown all our ammunition
off.

986
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,520
To lighten up.
To lighten up, to try to give us

987
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,760
enough power.
And So what happens is you have

988
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,960
your rotor speed and you want
your rotor speed at 100% RPM.

989
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,440
The rotor is your wings.
If a, if an, if an airplane's

990
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,800
wings falls off, it falls
straight down.

991
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,760
If that rotor stops spinning, we
fall straight down.

992
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:37,840
Those are our wings.
We're not taught when you, when

993
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,560
you get into an underpowered
situation, the rotor starts

994
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:45,200
slowing down because it's trying
to lift more than it's capable

995
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,280
of lifting.
So the rotor slows down, you get

996
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,520
to pass a certain RPMS, you
can't recover the the the fall

997
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,560
and the momentum from that fall.
It's called settling with power,

998
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,680
but you can't overcome it.
And so you will crash.

999
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,600
There's no other.
You get to a point of no return

1000
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:05,120
there.
You cannot recover and so our

1001
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:09,040
our engine chiclets, our engine
temperatures are all redlining

1002
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,520
so and our our rotors dropping.
Well, you're trying to get into

1003
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,360
a place that you can do the
rescue.

1004
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:17,040
Right.
OK.

1005
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,280
So we're in a brown on
condition, can't see.

1006
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,120
We're 200 feet elevation above
the mountains.

1007
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,160
Our wingman, our elite bird has
just crashed my aircraft

1008
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,160
commanders flying the aircraft
and he's trying to do the hover

1009
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,280
and I'm holding the, the
collective, which this is the

1010
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,320
collective.
This is what essentially it

1011
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,920
changes the angle of attack.
It's what makes you go up and

1012
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,720
down in a helicopter.
This what really where you

1013
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:44,520
consume your power is on this on
the, on the collective.

1014
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,800
If he pulls any more collective,
he's going to slow that rotor

1015
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,480
down.
We were, we were hitting 95% RPM

1016
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,720
again, I don't know, I've never
been trained.

1017
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,480
How low can we go?
I got lucky in the sense that I

1018
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,120
had asked that question to an
old Army pilot Once Upon a time.

1019
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,520
And I go because we talked about
it and I go, what's the when do

1020
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,680
I know what's the number?
Because the pilots are big on

1021
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,040
numbers.
What's the number?

1022
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,360
The go no go number.
And he's like, dude, it's not

1023
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,800
published.
Like there's no number out

1024
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,320
there.
He goes, I would never go below

1025
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,760
95% ever.
When I go below 95% rotor RPM

1026
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,560
and I'm like, OK, that was my
that was the one thing that

1027
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,040
stuck in my head.
And so I saw 95 like we are not,

1028
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,360
you're not fucking pulling that
collective anymore.

1029
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:30,760
And I held it there and then now
our engines are redlining.

1030
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,280
And so we have the throttles are
up here, throttles are up here.

1031
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,760
So we can take them to lockout.
What the lockout does is it

1032
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,280
gives you, it gives full power,
but you, you fry the motors.

1033
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,760
I mean, you burn them up, you
give it everything you got.

1034
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,280
It's taking all the limits off
it.

1035
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,760
So you, you pull them down and
you push them forward.

1036
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,560
That will give you a limit that
will give you all the possible

1037
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,960
power those engines can create.
It will make they will eat

1038
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,680
themselves to do it, but it'll
get you out of a situation to

1039
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,800
where you can safely crash land
or or safely land before the

1040
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,560
engines totally give out on you.
So I'm waiting.

1041
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,720
I might have to go to lockout
right?

1042
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,520
95 S We're maxed out every so my
hands, I can't.

1043
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,960
We're trained if if the
backender tells the pilot to

1044
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,840
stop doing something, the pilot
gets three chances to make the

1045
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,320
correction.
If they don't make the

1046
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,920
correction, then the Co pilot's
job is to take the controls

1047
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,760
because the pilot spatially deed
in that it's so powerful.

1048
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,800
The spatial disorientation is so
powerful.

1049
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:33,000
So the back Enders start saying
stop back, stop left, stop back,

1050
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,600
stop left and we're still I'm
looking at the screen I'm

1051
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,440
holding here.
I see our velocity and our

1052
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,480
accelerations both going
backwards and I'm like AC stop

1053
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,480
back, stop left.
And now at this point the back

1054
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,160
end is screaming at the top of
his lungs.

1055
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,840
Stop back, stop left.
And I had to make a decision

1056
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:56,240
like if because I'm holding us
at 95% RPM, our engines are

1057
00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:58,640
still relying, we might have to
go to contingency power.

1058
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,640
I'm not really in a place where
I can take the controls because

1059
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:07,480
if I take the controls and he
pulls up on maybe he pulls up on

1060
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,480
the collective, especially D, he
panics.

1061
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,840
Now we are done.
So there's a point in time, and

1062
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,160
I really had the time slowed
down and I had this thought like

1063
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:19,200
I trust my aircraft commander, I
will die with him.

1064
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:25,960
I will he will fix this like I
trust him and to his credits,

1065
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,560
America commander's credit like
he everything in his body was

1066
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,600
telling him to keep doing what
he was doing.

1067
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,880
And finally this I think it was
the scream of the flight

1068
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,920
engineer, the final scream of
the flight engineer and he did

1069
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,240
the right thing like he was
totally spatially deed.

1070
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,960
He just slammed the stick
forward to stop the back, the

1071
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,880
back left movement.
He just went the exact opposite.

1072
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,120
He overrode everything in his
body even though it felt like

1073
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,720
the wrong thing to do and jam
the stick forward.

1074
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:56,880
He knows and in the after we
found out that maybe we were a

1075
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,880
couple feet from our rotor
impacting a mountain, I mean the

1076
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,040
tail rotor, when that happens,
it's over for us.

1077
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:08,440
We sheared the hoist.
We had nothing left at that

1078
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,920
point.
And so we're like, and we made

1079
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,360
the right, we're like we're done
as far as we'll provide, but we

1080
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,760
can't, we can't get in there,
can't get to them, can't get to

1081
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,320
them.
So now we start planning a

1082
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:19,560
ground X film.
This is where.

1083
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:24,680
So then an AC130 gunships called
in to provide cast, you know,

1084
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,760
over we call them Sandy and it's
overhead support.

1085
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:29,680
They're kind of they're able to
do a lot of things now.

1086
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,760
The AC130 gunships is a
phenomenal, phenomenal airframe.

1087
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:37,000
This is where the PGA comes in.
So I think it was there was

1088
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,120
another PJ, the PGS.
I think we're actually on a

1089
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,560
maybe an HC130, not there's,
there's two, there's two, one

1090
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,880
30s.
So we needed to get medical help

1091
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,720
to the people that were injured
because you know, the pilots

1092
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:53,560
injured, the Co pilots injured,
the flight engineer's dead, the

1093
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:59,440
Gunners injured, the PJ's OK,
one PJ's OK, the other PJ's

1094
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,800
critical.
And so we got two pair of rescue

1095
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,920
men on HC 130 overhead.
And then there's an AC130 that

1096
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,640
come on station for it to
provide.

1097
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,560
And they're really there to
provide support.

1098
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,560
If enemies trying to come in to
capture us, they're going to

1099
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,120
keep the enemy off of us or try
to keep the enemy off of us.

1100
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,960
No better support than an AC130I
mean what they can bring to bear

1101
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,840
what they they ended up.
What ended up happened is that

1102
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:30,000
these two pair rescue men.
I don't if it was wonder if it

1103
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,720
was just one or if it was 2, but
they at night they do what's

1104
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,880
called a high, high altitude,
low opening dive out of the

1105
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,440
aircraft.
It's pitch black.

1106
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:39,800
We had no Illumina.
There was no moon.

1107
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,240
There was no, we had zero.
It was a 0 illumination night,

1108
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:44,560
which doesn't help anything.
Night vision goggles, they're

1109
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,400
still, they still need light,
some semblance of light.

1110
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,200
Otherwise they get all flickery
and you can't really see

1111
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,720
anything.
And they had some tools that

1112
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,520
help them, you know, paint the
paint, the landing zone.

1113
00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:00,640
They jump from this AC, this HC
130 and, you know, pitch black.

1114
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:06,200
And as the story was told back
to us from our crew, like

1115
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:15,120
literally the guy, the, the PJ,
he's jumping down, lands 1-2

1116
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,840
steps, disconnects his chute and
is on his knees pulling out his

1117
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,560
medical pack right on top of the
PJ that's injured.

1118
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,280
That's the precision.
Landed right on.

1119
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:28,040
Top of him, right on top of him
from I mean just clicks off his

1120
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,400
parachute and starts
administering first aid to

1121
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,960
stabilize them.
And then now we're spending the

1122
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,560
rest of the time we went through
there was we had AAC 1:30 that

1123
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,960
bingoed out of fuel.
They had to leave, brought in an

1124
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,120
A10A10 was doing an overhead
support for us.

1125
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:48,360
They ran out of fuel, brought in
AF161 or 2F sixteens that came

1126
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:53,720
in until and then we go through
everything to move them to get

1127
00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:56,720
them out of that that area to
where they can be rescued.

1128
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,320
And at the end of the day, it's
now sunlight.

1129
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,680
We're off goggles.
I think I had 12 hours on night

1130
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,120
vision goggles at on that
mission.

1131
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,480
The we they bring in the Army,
sun's up.

1132
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:16,840
They bring in the Army to
Chinook comes in, doesn't do a

1133
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,840
high low Recon.
He just comes on approach, drops

1134
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,320
loads everyone up out like it
was nothing.

1135
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:28,040
And I'm just think I'm like,
what in the hell are we doing

1136
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:29,720
here?
Why are we here?

1137
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,280
So that was and so it was a
week.

1138
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,280
I had already, I had applied to
get into the reserves even

1139
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,320
though they said it was probably
going to happen.

1140
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,120
I had applied and the week
before, maybe a few days before

1141
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,120
this mission, I had been denied
to go into the reserves.

1142
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,760
Obviously when there's a crash
like this and there's a death,

1143
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,040
there's a big safety
investigation.

1144
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,480
At the time, I wasn't, I'm not
thinking, I'm trying to blow

1145
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:57,520
people up.
I'm not trying to blow up

1146
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,040
people's career.
I'm not trying to, you know, I'm

1147
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:00,800
not trying to say, hey, I told
you so I told you this was going

1148
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,440
to happen.
And it's like, no, I'm like, I'm

1149
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,240
trying to keep my, my, I got
people that we still have.

1150
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:06,960
We're, we're still early in our
deployment.

1151
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,560
We still got another, you know,
6080 days that we're looking at.

1152
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,400
And I got guys with kids, young
kids that are wanting like, I'm

1153
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:15,720
leaving, I'm leaving.
I can't be here.

1154
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,840
I can't be here.
I got to try to keep them

1155
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,120
together.
I need to get the people that

1156
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,080
are still here.
I need to get them home alive,

1157
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:24,880
keep their heads in the game.
So I'm not thinking anything

1158
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:26,360
political.
I'm not thinking anything.

1159
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,280
Let me show you, I was right.
You were wrong.

1160
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:29,200
I'm not thinking anything like
that.

1161
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,560
So when the Safety Board comes,
I just tell them what happened

1162
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,280
with the mission.
I just give them all the facts.

1163
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,640
I don't say, hey, you know, we
shouldn't have ever been on this

1164
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:36,720
mission.
I don't bring up any of that.

1165
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,920
I told her this was going to.
I didn't do any of that that

1166
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,240
because that wasn't where my
head space was.

1167
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,840
A day after that interview from
the Safety Investigation Board,

1168
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,840
I got an e-mail from personnel
saying we've reconsidered your

1169
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,320
application for the reserves and
you've been approved.

1170
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:59,480
The path of least resistance.
That's such a crazy story, man.

1171
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:04,400
That's such a crazy story.
And you know how we LED into

1172
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,560
that.
I, I think what existed in you

1173
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:13,000
and in that up to that point,
like you had identified this

1174
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,720
error in your process and you
were comfortable enough going

1175
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,560
against the grain of everybody
else around you.

1176
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:25,440
Your, your people above you, the
people below you who you feel

1177
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,360
like you, you're representing,
comfortable with going against

1178
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:29,800
the grain and saying this is
wrong.

1179
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,160
This is what's going to happen.
And here's what I'm going to do

1180
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:34,520
about it.
I'm going to turn in my wings,

1181
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,200
right And.
The strongest thing I could do,

1182
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,280
that was the that was the most,
that was the most power I had.

1183
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,560
You identified what you could do
and what you could do to the

1184
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,400
situation.
So all of that speaks to that

1185
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,280
leadership capability.
And then you go all through it.

1186
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,120
And then even how you end the
scenario about how every other

1187
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,720
every single person in the world
wouldn't be like I told your ass

1188
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,320
like this was going to happen,
Like we should have been doing

1189
00:59:58,320 --> 00:59:59,640
this in the. 1st place
Hollywood, right?

1190
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,200
It would be people arrested.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1191
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:03,680
It's off with their heads, you
know?

1192
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:10,000
But I think the entire scenario,
like when you told me that and

1193
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,880
you added some new parts this
time that we didn't get a chance

1194
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:18,720
to talk to the first time, it
speaks volumes to, I think what

1195
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,640
we started our conversation
with, what your people seeing

1196
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,440
you, why you're an effective
leader.

1197
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,080
Eventually what we're going to
talk about today, the fun stuff

1198
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,200
about what you're doing with
carousing, all of those things,

1199
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:36,520
being able to identify, act upon
then and then own the result.

1200
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,800
All three of those things, I
think, are what part of the

1201
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,120
pieces or large part of the
pieces that builds you into the

1202
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:44,320
effect of leader.
You are right.

1203
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,200
This is, I mean, at the end of
the day, I'm going to be wrong,

1204
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,360
you know, I'm, I'm going to be
right at times.

1205
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,080
Right.
In that scenario, you wish you

1206
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:52,480
were.
Wrong.

1207
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:56,080
Exactly, exactly.
But at the bottom line, whether

1208
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:59,680
or not I'm right or wrong isn't
what carries the day.

1209
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,920
It's the trust factor.
It's the it's the authenticity

1210
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,040
factor.
The people that follow me or

1211
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:13,480
that work for me or one, they
know that I, I will walk the

1212
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,960
walk.
I'm not just talking.

1213
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,960
I will put myself out there.
Like even my company, you know,

1214
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,120
my, my main company, I've been
up in the scissor lift doing the

1215
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,920
shittiest jobs we got for hours
on end.

1216
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,640
I've been in there.
I've been in one of my core

1217
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,920
principles of leadership is you
need to be able to do any job

1218
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,240
you're asking somebody else to
do.

1219
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,960
If you're not willing to do the
job yourself or have done the

1220
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,720
job yourself, you have no
business telling someone else to

1221
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:42,840
do that job.
You need to know what you're

1222
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:44,520
telling them to do.
You need to experience it.

1223
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,560
So when their life sucks and
you're going to go make their

1224
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,040
life suck, you need to know how
much suck they're in for.

1225
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,560
And you need to be able to look
them in the eye and say, I know

1226
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:57,280
what I'm asking you to do.
I've done it myself, here's why.

1227
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,320
And sometimes you can say why,
sometimes you can't.

1228
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,080
If I can't say why, I want to
tell them why.

1229
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,800
And sometimes the answer is this
sucks and you just got to do it

1230
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,040
because sometimes that's the way
life is.

1231
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,000
And I've done, I've so many
examples of doing that.

1232
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,200
And people and people are,
they're like, all right, let's

1233
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:18,280
run through the wall because
it's just truth.

1234
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,360
I'm just being honest with them.
And I think that's why like,

1235
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,400
hey, I don't mind following
someone who's going to be wrong

1236
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,720
because I know that he's being
truthful with me.

1237
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,520
He's not trying to lead me if he
makes a bad decision, he's not

1238
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,440
trying to screw me over.
He's not trying.

1239
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,080
He's truly, he's doing what he
thinks is best and he's being

1240
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,000
honest with us and we're OK.
And I think you're OK.

1241
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,320
I'm OK.
I'm OK following someone that

1242
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,200
makes a mistake.
I don't my.

1243
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,480
Oh, man, that sucked.
Yeah, dude, I really screwed

1244
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:46,680
that decision.
Hey, no worries, man.

1245
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:48,800
I got you.
Like, you know, it's going to

1246
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,240
happen.
And I think that that trust

1247
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,960
knowing that and and again,
knowing too, that no, I'm not

1248
01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:02,040
going to burn you if you are
part of my team as a leader.

1249
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,760
This this is and this.
I heard this from generals and

1250
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,760
it pissed me off.
I was furious at squadron

1251
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,320
officer school.
And he's like the general's like

1252
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:13,800
talks.
You need to be thinking about

1253
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,720
what not just what your boss
wants, but you need to be

1254
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:18,360
thinking about what your boss's
boss wants.

1255
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,520
And I go bullshit.
Yeah.

1256
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,520
No way.
Look down.

1257
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,640
You're a leader.
Your job is to take care of the

1258
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,080
people you're leading.
That's your that's what's

1259
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,320
important.
That's where your focus is.

1260
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,960
And that's the problem with it's
whether it's the military,

1261
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,240
whether it's corporation, the
people trying to climb the

1262
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,760
ladders are always looking up.
They're only thinking about what

1263
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,520
will help them get up the
ladder.

1264
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,680
They're not thinking about the
people they're stepping on

1265
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,840
underneath or whether it's
helping them or hurting them.

1266
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,600
Those are the people.
The people who win wars are are

1267
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,520
are the little guy.
That's who wins wars.

1268
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:59,080
Their blood, their sacrifice.
Those are the guys that win.

1269
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,720
Those are the guys and girls
that win wars, period.

1270
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,680
Dot take care of them and.
Guess how they operate the best?

1271
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,560
It's when they're empowered and
supported.

1272
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:09,840
It's not when they're
authoritarianly directed.

1273
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:11,280
What to do?
I have no.

1274
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,560
Desire with my team because I
I've hired, I mean, I've very

1275
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:20,800
exceptionally gifted people that
work for me, but I don't want to

1276
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,720
micromanage them.
I want, I give them a vision.

1277
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,240
Here's what we're trying to get
to surprise me with how you're

1278
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,440
going to execute that.
There might be times where I

1279
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:31,680
know something specific and I'll
give specifics.

1280
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:37,800
But really at this point, like
it's just like you guys go when

1281
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,040
you need me to help remove an
obstacle or if you need a

1282
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:46,320
reinforcement or you need a
resource, tell me so I can make

1283
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,840
your job easier, so I can
empower you to do your job.

1284
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,360
I don't micromanage, I don't
check in.

1285
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,360
I mean, I do check in, but I'm
not like on top of them.

1286
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,320
Like what are you doing today?
Where's how have you spent your

1287
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,640
hours?
Like they work from home.

1288
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,600
I mean honestly I they could be
working 3 hours a day I wouldn't

1289
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,040
know, but I'll I'll essentially.
Space management.

1290
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,680
If they're doing what you want
them to, who cares?

1291
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:09,160
I'll find out.
If you're not doing your job,

1292
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,520
I'll find out.
Yeah, you've delineated the

1293
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,800
value.
You know what you want, need

1294
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:15,480
that person to bring to the
table, right?

1295
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,240
And you afford them the
opportunity to do it.

1296
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,760
And I think I have given them
what I think is this is the

1297
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:24,160
number of hours it should take,
you know, in a given work week.

1298
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,920
And I've, we've agreed on a
salary and if you can figure out

1299
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,480
how to accomplish all the things
I want you to accomplish and you

1300
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,080
can do it in half the time.
Yeah.

1301
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,040
And go golf.
Yeah, absolutely.

1302
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:36,480
Whatever you want to do, as long
as the job that I hired you to

1303
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,160
do is take care of and you found
efficiencies and whatever you

1304
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:41,200
should, you should benefit from
the efficiencies that you

1305
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:42,280
create.
That was one of the things I

1306
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,920
learned in the corporate world
that pissed me off was I could

1307
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:46,160
save.
I saved Lockheed Martin

1308
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,640
$1,000,000 in six months and
they didn't give a flip.

1309
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,400
You know I didn't benefit at all
so well why should I keep

1310
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,760
busting my ass it.
Lined your boss's boss's

1311
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,040
pockets, right is what happened.
Yeah, and it made.

1312
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,960
Someone look good.
I didn't benefit at all from it.

1313
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:04,040
I I had to put myself in for an
award for that and I got at the

1314
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,320
end of the day, I got $50 after
taxes great for saving 1,000,000

1315
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,120
bucks for motivating.
Let me let me dive into the next

1316
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:14,280
assignment for you.
Yeah, it's something I struggle

1317
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:18,000
with so frequently.
I I see it in so many

1318
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,920
capacities.
It's and it's that look up

1319
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:24,760
concept you were talking about
earlier where someone's trying

1320
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:29,600
to position themselves as doing
the right things of making their

1321
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,920
boss's boss happy to try to get
that next rung on the ladder.

1322
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,880
But at what expense?
Yeah, what?

1323
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:40,440
What is the expense of that?
Often times, I mean, it's really

1324
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:44,560
easy to forecast you lose your
innovators because if if an

1325
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,680
innovator is not empowered to
innovate, guess what?

1326
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:48,520
They're going to go innovate
somewhere else because that's

1327
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,320
what drives them.
They want to be an innovator.

1328
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:51,920
So you're going to lose them in
the first place?

1329
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,200
They don't want to be a number.
Yeah, exactly.

1330
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,480
Like they they want to be
empowered to do something they

1331
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:01,200
care about, which is clearly.
And they should win if they're

1332
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,080
great at what they do, right.
That's why with the, you know,

1333
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,880
the NFL or the the sports world,
I'm they can do something that

1334
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,720
very few human beings on this
planet can do, right?

1335
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:13,800
And they are putting their
bodies out on the line.

1336
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:15,560
Pay them.
Yeah.

1337
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,080
You're making billions.
Yeah.

1338
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:18,320
What are you doing?
Yeah.

1339
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:20,160
It was just good.
I mean, we, I think we, I mean,

1340
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,400
I think it's good that the
players make as much as they

1341
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:23,280
did.
They didn't noise.

1342
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,920
And well, talk about an example
of exactly what you were just

1343
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,680
saying about the the the people
on the ground make the product.

1344
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,160
Nobody is going to watch Jerry
Jones do a press conference.

1345
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,960
People are going to watch Jordan
Love lower his head like he did

1346
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,280
yesterday and get that first
down and put his entire body at

1347
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,400
risk.
Why she Micah Parsons, I mean,

1348
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,320
and again, I was just a Packer
fan.

1349
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,840
Just overwhelmed with
excitement.

1350
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,560
We just flashbacks to Reggie
White and Brett Favre and I just

1351
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,720
Oh my God, this is great.
And you know, we've always, I

1352
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,000
think hacker fans have always
hungered for that splash.

1353
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,720
Like, where's our splash?
You know, and when the Niners

1354
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,960
signed McCaffrey, I'm like, Oh
my gosh, that's such a boost,

1355
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:02,480
right?
And you know, you see these big

1356
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:04,440
signings, like when are we going
to have that big Reggie White

1357
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,120
signing again?
And so but to watch at the game

1358
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:11,520
last night, you know, to see
what Micah Parsons, apart from

1359
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:16,080
what he does individually, you
can tell he has lifted.

1360
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:19,560
Energized.
Everybody not just a defense

1361
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,760
like you could, but you could
say like the motor on that guy,

1362
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,840
like the absolute tenacity.
And it's just, it's just, it's a

1363
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,200
it's like it's infectious,
right?

1364
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,960
And I'm like, gosh, like, how do
you put a number on that?

1365
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:31,200
Yeah.
Yeah.

1366
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:32,880
How do you quantify it?
Absolutely.

1367
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,640
And I mean, that's to circle it
in that's I struggle with that a

1368
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:42,240
lot when I when I see
ineffective leadership that is

1369
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,439
climb in the rungs.
But in reality, it's so

1370
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:51,080
inefficient and it it's doing
more demoralizing than it is

1371
01:08:51,399 --> 01:08:54,080
improvement of the.
Scenario.

1372
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,680
True leaders find out real early
they want to be quieted.

1373
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,080
Someone's really trying to lead.
There's usually going to be a

1374
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:07,399
lot of people squawking at them
to toe the line.

1375
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:11,160
OK yeah.
To not think outside, to not not

1376
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:12,399
make waves.
Sure.

1377
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,760
You know, it's the and a leader
needs to make waves.

1378
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:17,120
You know, always.
I mean, that's not always.

1379
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:18,520
You don't make waves just to
make waves.

1380
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,160
Well, with leadership comes hard
decisions, and that makes waves

1381
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:24,080
regardless of which side you
pick.

1382
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:25,680
Yeah, the right one.
Everyone's gonna make waves.

1383
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:26,800
You're never gonna please
everyone.

1384
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,920
Yeah.
And again, as a leader, you

1385
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:30,279
don't always know that you're
making the right choice.

1386
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,279
Yeah, I could be.
I've made so many choices.

1387
01:09:32,279 --> 01:09:34,000
I told people like, I don't
know.

1388
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:35,279
Yeah, I go.
Let's go this way.

1389
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,240
And that's what to answer your
earlier question, I mean, that's

1390
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:41,840
what I believe in decisiveness.
The worst decision is

1391
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,439
indecision, right?
George Patton, a good plan

1392
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,040
executed now is better than a
perfect plan next week.

1393
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,520
And I get it's so funny and it's
part of my ADHI think in my ADHD

1394
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,960
brain.
Like I get to a point there's a

1395
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:56,640
video out there like Leroy
Jenkins.

1396
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:58,960
I don't ever send them.
I know my so funny, but they're

1397
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,200
all talking.
This is silly Warcraft, World

1398
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:02,600
Warcraft.
And they're talking, they're

1399
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,000
planning it.
And then there's like, all

1400
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,240
right, guys, you Roy drinking.
They just runs in the room.

1401
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,240
And I get that way.
We can talk about this and talk

1402
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:11,680
about this and plan it and plan
it.

1403
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,040
Just let's just get in there.
Let's just mix it up.

1404
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:16,320
Let's see what, what are we
dealing with?

1405
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:17,800
I don't know.
Let's get our hands dirty.

1406
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:20,480
Let's and and so I get to a
point where I just can't talk

1407
01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:22,520
anymore.
Like we got to do like we let's,

1408
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:24,560
you know what?
I don't know, we're going to go

1409
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,520
that direction.
Let's go that direction.

1410
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,920
Let's, let's see if we get
knocked on our ass and if we get

1411
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,040
knocked on our ass, we'll dust
ourselves off, learn from it and

1412
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:34,320
pick a different direction.
And that's I, I really believe

1413
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:37,480
in that.
And I, I believe, I believe

1414
01:10:37,480 --> 01:10:40,680
leadership is more art.
Than science.

1415
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,280
Oh, absolutely right.
Because each situation is

1416
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:44,200
unique.
Yeah.

1417
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,400
And, and again, it's like
there's so many great principles

1418
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:48,720
of leadership, right?
You can read.

1419
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:50,800
There's, there's tons.
I love Sun SU's principles.

1420
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:52,680
There's so many great
principles.

1421
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,640
And there's, it's like there's
so many great paint strokes.

1422
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,160
There's so many good techniques
to be a musician.

1423
01:10:58,160 --> 01:10:59,800
So many good techniques.
Yeah.

1424
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,280
That's not what makes them a
musician, No.

1425
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,120
There's an art.
They see something, they feel

1426
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,520
something.
Their music or their art comes

1427
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,280
from some place you can't
define.

1428
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:11,880
And I believe that's true for
good leadership too.

1429
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:15,400
It comes from a place within the
person that you can't.

1430
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:17,000
You can.
You could.

1431
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,080
By adding technique and adding
different strokes and increasing

1432
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:22,920
their tool bag, you will make a
leader more effective and more

1433
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,440
powerful.
But at the end of the day, it's

1434
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,280
it's ultimately an art.
The the ability to, to vision

1435
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,240
cast, to see kind of forward to
make those decisions, to be able

1436
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:33,920
to take it.
There's something internal in

1437
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:35,840
that person that you cannot just
replicate.

1438
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:37,040
It's not something you can
teach.

1439
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:40,520
Yeah, the stuff that had you
identify the procedural thing

1440
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,920
that was wrong and the the gall
to move forward with that.

1441
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:48,240
That stuff can't be taught.
You can like I have a master's

1442
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:52,440
degree in leadership.
I go in tomorrow and get a job

1443
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:54,880
and I start looking up two
bosses and I have leadership

1444
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,240
principles.
I know, right?

1445
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:57,280
None of them matter.
Nope.

1446
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,040
Because you're not executing in
a way that matters and and is

1447
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:01,680
going to be effective.
And I do think, I mean, I think,

1448
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:03,760
I think really strong leaders
are courageous.

1449
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:05,240
Hell yeah.
Absolutely.

1450
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:06,360
You have to be.
You have to be.

1451
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:08,120
You got to be.
Because the other thing is you

1452
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,320
got to be willing to look down
the barrel of a.

1453
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,240
Gun making a decision that you
very well know could be wrong.

1454
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,320
Yeah, even like in a comment you
could be making a decision that

1455
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,000
kills people.
Yeah, you still got to.

1456
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,200
Make a decision there.
You can't not make a choice.

1457
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:22,840
So to be able to to and own
that, you carry that.

1458
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,520
That's on your shoulders.
And that's the way I feel like

1459
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,280
with my when it was, whether it
was the people in the helicopter

1460
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:33,040
or with my team, I'm responsible
for them, their livelihoods, the

1461
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:37,080
paychecks they get feeds their
families and they have dreams

1462
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,320
too.
How do I help them achieve their

1463
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,040
dreams?
Like if I'm really a leader, if

1464
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,080
I really care about them, it's
not just about OK, making sure

1465
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,440
they got a paycheck.
Are you happy with what you're

1466
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:49,200
doing?
Where is your, are your, are

1467
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:50,800
you, where are you at in your
family life?

1468
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,440
Do you need time off where you
know, and I tell my team all the

1469
01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:54,800
time.
I kind of like, I can't know

1470
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,120
what's inside of you all the
time.

1471
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:57,480
Like I need you to communicate
with me.

1472
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:01,560
If you're burnt out, you need to
go tell me and you're going off

1473
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,600
the map.
We'll, we'll figure it out.

1474
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,840
But I, I do need that
communication back and forth,

1475
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:11,320
but it's that, that true desire
to really care about the human

1476
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:15,360
beings that you'll even have the
courage to, you know, to sit to

1477
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,680
bear it like I could, my
decision could really screw

1478
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:19,520
these people over.
I don't know.

1479
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,680
It's the right decision.
I'm doing what I think is best

1480
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,400
and I'm, I'll stand tall whether
it's the right decision or the

1481
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,400
wrong decision.
And I'll live on it.

1482
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,680
I'll live or die by it.
And, and if I'm wrong, I will

1483
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:32,040
admit I'm wrong.
And if there's consequences and

1484
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:33,480
we got to deal with those
consequences.

1485
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,760
But I, I honestly believe the
heart, the spirit of if you're

1486
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:39,760
trying to do the right thing,
you really, truly are trying to

1487
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:41,520
do what's right by everybody.
You're going to make mistakes.

1488
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:46,840
But at the end of the day, your
heart, your spirit always goes

1489
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:48,720
before you.
It always comes after you.

1490
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:51,440
And even if people get burned by
you trying to make a decision,

1491
01:13:51,440 --> 01:13:52,720
you're really trying to help
people.

1492
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,360
I think maybe not in the moment,
but I think years later down the

1493
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:58,560
road they go, I was trying, man.
I really was trying.

1494
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,800
I wasn't trying to hurt you or
hurt whatever, or I was in a

1495
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,600
really bad spot and I did make a
bad decision and that's on me.

1496
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:07,360
And I'm really sorry how it
affected you, but we're we're

1497
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:09,400
still human.
We're all going to make

1498
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,760
mistakes.
Yeah, that's so good.

1499
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:13,720
I haven't had a fun leadership
conversation in a while.

1500
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:14,840
That's fun.
I was looking, I was looking

1501
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,240
forward to that for a long time.
I got a fun question.

1502
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:18,960
Out of that though, to kind of.
Change gears a little bit one

1503
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,720
that I've been waiting to ask
you for the podcast.

1504
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,160
I thought about this.
You gave me the opportunity to

1505
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:27,280
do some really fun marketing
work for you and talking about

1506
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,360
your kind of I'm ready to dive
into the weeds and do stuff.

1507
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:34,320
How hard was the 30 days for you
that I asked for to like unveil

1508
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,320
the plant?
Was it was it hard to wait to

1509
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,480
see what it was?
No, you know, you know what?

1510
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:44,240
So this is and again I think.
The way I one of the things I

1511
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,920
learned in the military and I
love this and this is I try to

1512
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:48,560
hire people who are fire and
forget.

1513
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:56,000
So a fire and forget munition is
1 where it gets lock as soon as

1514
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,400
you deploy the weapon you turn,
you go the other direction.

1515
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,040
You don't ever have to track
what that weapons got it.

1516
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,920
What we were just talking about
that weapons going to go do its

1517
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:06,800
job and.
You can trust that that weapons

1518
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:07,600
going.
To go do its job.

1519
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,320
Got it.
OK, So that's what I look for in

1520
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:12,520
all my people.
I want fire and forget weapons.

1521
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:16,000
I want people that I give a
task, they go, I go, OK, you

1522
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,760
know, we we talk where, when it
when it when will I know the

1523
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:20,840
return or when are we going to
give me the feedback from the

1524
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:22,600
mission that you just went on?
Yeah.

1525
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:26,560
So it's very fire.
So like when you came?

1526
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,920
On to to help us out in the.
Consulting role, it's like, OK,

1527
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:31,840
you know what we're trying to
do.

1528
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,680
I don't know shit about
marketing.

1529
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:37,760
I don't know anything about
social media.

1530
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:40,480
I don't know anything about
starting a beverage company.

1531
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:43,160
I don't know anything about any
of this, right?

1532
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:47,440
None of it.
So I need people that do know

1533
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:49,280
something about it that I can
trust.

1534
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:52,720
So then for me, and I'm going to
make a lot of wrong decisions on

1535
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,360
this, but what I'm looking for
is people I resonate with.

1536
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,640
In this case, you know, our
relationship's a good example.

1537
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,680
I, I resonate with your energy.
I resonate with the relationship

1538
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,600
piece.
There's a trust that I gained

1539
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,560
from you very early.
Like, OK, this guy's, he gets

1540
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:10,600
it.
And I, I have a certain, no, I

1541
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,040
could be wrong.
I only met you.

1542
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:15,240
Yeah, But you could put a good,
have a really good facade.

1543
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:19,040
I don't know, but I'm gonna, I
choose to trust you 100%.

1544
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,200
And that's one of the things I
think as a leader, I always

1545
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:24,640
would tell my people this like,
like when when you when you're a

1546
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:27,160
new leader coming in to lead a
new group of people, right.

1547
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,960
So many leaders make the mistake
of thinking their authority,

1548
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:36,080
their, their, their, their rank
or the title is their authority.

1549
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:37,800
No, no, no, no.
That's not your authority.

1550
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,560
You might have you do get some
authority from that.

1551
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:43,440
That's not what you lead with.
It's the thing before you and

1552
01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:45,360
after you were just talking
about a couple minutes ago.

1553
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,040
That's right with your.
Spirit, you have to, but you

1554
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,880
these people don't know.
You that you're leading, it's

1555
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,600
your responsible and I really
want leaders to hear this.

1556
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:57,800
It is your responsibility to
earn their trust.

1557
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,520
None of them should give it to
you automatically and nor should

1558
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:04,880
you expect it.
If you do, you get a yes man,

1559
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:08,840
you get a yes man.
You just, you don't build a

1560
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,120
team, right?
There's no comfort level.

1561
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,080
You got to go.
And and I would say this like I

1562
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:16,040
want everyone on my team.
I want you to hear me.

1563
01:17:16,480 --> 01:17:19,120
I trust each and everyone of you
100%.

1564
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:23,880
Any one of you can burn me
completely and and if you want

1565
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:28,240
to, you can.
I will adjust and things will,

1566
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:29,840
there will be consequences
accordingly.

1567
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:32,600
But I am putting all my trust in
you.

1568
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:37,160
It is you if you, it is up to
you to keep that trust.

1569
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:38,600
Be a good steward of it.
Exactly.

1570
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:40,720
And if you don't, then we'll
make moves.

1571
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,760
And we'll change things.
But I don't expect any of you to

1572
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,000
trust me.
I don't want you to trust me

1573
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,960
right now.
I will earn your trust through

1574
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,120
my actions, through my
decisions, through backing up,

1575
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:55,320
by doing what I say I will do by
showing you that I and that is

1576
01:17:55,320 --> 01:18:00,040
something that's so reversed.
It's so done, so in, it's done

1577
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:03,840
so wrong in, in, in most
leadership circles, it's they

1578
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:08,240
just go in with their title, CEO
or general or whatever else.

1579
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:10,680
Just start throwing the, the
weight of that around thinking

1580
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:12,800
that's leadership.
That's not leadership.

1581
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:14,120
You got to earn your trust.
I don't care if you're a

1582
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:15,640
four-star general.
I don't care if you're president

1583
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,000
of the United States.
I don't care.

1584
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:18,160
You got to earn your people's
trust.

1585
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,360
I worked in a scenario one time
that brings something a really.

1586
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:24,160
Vivid example to me.
I worked in a scenario one time,

1587
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:29,480
I won't say where, but why.
The ultimate person who ran the

1588
01:18:29,480 --> 01:18:34,160
office that I was working in was
really beating around the Bush

1589
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:38,640
to tell me that he gave another
person in the office an elevated

1590
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:41,000
title.
He didn't change their role

1591
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,880
whatsoever, but he thought
giving them.

1592
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:48,080
A title.
Was going to upset me because I

1593
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:51,280
was I did a lot there like it
was that scenario where I was

1594
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:53,520
doing a lot of things and I was
getting rewarded with more work

1595
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,600
and he thought that.
And I was like.

1596
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:01,680
OK, person, I don't I could give
a shit less about a title.

1597
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,680
Let's let's talk about this in
eight months or six months.

1598
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,480
When my.
Performance review comes up and

1599
01:19:07,480 --> 01:19:11,680
let's talk about how my workload
is adjusted, but my compensation

1600
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,880
isn't.
I don't care what my title is.

1601
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,040
I know what I do here.
I know what my value is.

1602
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:18,920
And I, I've, I've never forgot
that.

1603
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,760
I've thought about it on and off
sometimes about like he was so

1604
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,720
worried to tell me and he, he
was not always the best at

1605
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:27,920
confrontation anyway.
And that's a lot of, I mean a

1606
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:29,680
lot of people that are put in
management positions or

1607
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,360
leadership positions.
They hate confrontations they

1608
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:36,760
will avoid and being a leader is
to confront early, early and

1609
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:38,480
often with him.
He was the guy that would let it

1610
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:43,000
build up, build up until.
It exploded and I'm like,

1611
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,280
whatever, man, I, I, I don't
care about the title.

1612
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:48,480
Like, you know, tell me this,
tell me, let's strategize

1613
01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:50,200
together.
Let's build this thing and let's

1614
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:54,080
talk about what true, true value
is.

1615
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:58,680
Alternative perceived value.
You know, like that word on that

1616
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,720
thing doesn't mean a damn thing.
And I'm like, I hate titles.

1617
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:03,480
That's why maybe my title for
Carouser.

1618
01:20:03,480 --> 01:20:07,920
I'm the commander.
And reef titles are, and again,

1619
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,280
they're important.
They are important for you know.

1620
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:12,760
Hierarchy and understanding.
Where think how information

1621
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:14,640
flows and communication flows
and all that stuff.

1622
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:17,920
So they they have value, but so
many people chase titles too.

1623
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:20,600
You know, I'm the CEO that's
great.

1624
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,720
You know whatever.
Well, if and if that's what your

1625
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:25,720
aim for.
If your aim is to be the.

1626
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:28,760
CEO, if that's your goal and
there's nothing else that comes

1627
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,120
along with it, you'll get to be
CEO for about two years, right,

1628
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:32,840
Right.
Yeah, Yeah.

1629
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:34,680
Or you're really not.
I mean you're CEO and title

1630
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:36,960
only.
And you know, then that's a lot

1631
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:38,360
of people out there.
They're whatever they are

1632
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:40,520
entitled only figurehead.
Yeah.

1633
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:42,800
And that's but yeah, to go back
to your question about the 30.

1634
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:44,120
Days.
That's why I like, you know.

1635
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:46,280
I had made it through our
interactions.

1636
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:47,920
I had made a determination that
I could trust that you were

1637
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:52,080
trustworthy.
And I'm just going to let you be

1638
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:54,080
a professional.
I don't know what you need.

1639
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:55,440
I don't know.
I don't.

1640
01:20:55,440 --> 01:20:56,960
I don't know anything about what
you do.

1641
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,280
I need you to tell me what to
do.

1642
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,360
And that's why essentially why
you're coming on board.

1643
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:04,120
So you tell me how long it's
going to take.

1644
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:07,600
So where for me that, you know,
kind of the trust, but verify,

1645
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,240
you know, ask.
OK, so how long do you need?

1646
01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:10,920
And you said, OK, I'll need this
amount of time.

1647
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,760
And so until we get past that
amount of time and there's no

1648
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:17,200
result or there's no feedback or
I feel like things aren't

1649
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:19,880
happening, I'm, I'm not going
to, I'm, I'm off doing other

1650
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:20,760
things.
Yeah.

1651
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:22,520
I'm not even thinking about
whatever it is you're working

1652
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,360
on.
I felt your full faith in it.

1653
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,200
I, I was, I was wondering in
that.

1654
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:29,200
Scenario I always think about
and maybe it's it's my internal

1655
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:31,640
like patients come out like I
get excited, excited doing a

1656
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:33,120
project like that.
I'm like ready to get this

1657
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,720
going, but it takes time to make
everything come to life, you

1658
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:38,720
know, and it's probably my
internal thing coming up, but

1659
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:41,080
I'm like, boy, if I was in those
shoes, I'd be impatient right

1660
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:42,360
now.
I just want to get this thing

1661
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:45,480
moving and going, but I want to
make sure we get some of that

1662
01:21:45,480 --> 01:21:48,520
talk in today because ultimately
that's how we came together

1663
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:54,200
right with a brand carouser,
everything you stand for and why

1664
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:57,960
you started the company about
low milligram micro dose

1665
01:21:58,480 --> 01:22:01,600
specifically for me, obviously
what resonates is alcohol

1666
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:05,280
replacement.
You're doing some innovative

1667
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:08,960
things in a in a fledgling, but
about to boom space.

1668
01:22:09,480 --> 01:22:14,160
It has to be so exciting.
I don't, I don't know.

1669
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:15,640
That's not leading into a
question, but it's.

1670
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:17,480
Just so you have to be.
Having fun man.

1671
01:22:17,480 --> 01:22:21,200
Like with finally you, you have
another successful business for

1672
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,080
everybody that doesn't know,
even another successful business

1673
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,640
that does great.
This is where you've chosen to

1674
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,080
play put your passion.
These are the these are your

1675
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:31,280
proverbial like these are your
passion chips going to the

1676
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:36,560
center.
I I envy that of that, that jump

1677
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,440
to just say, OK, we're taking a
dive into this thing.

1678
01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:41,360
It's got to be fun, man.
Yeah, it's a combination of

1679
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:42,920
adrenaline and terror.
Absolutely.

1680
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:47,840
Honestly, no.
And and the passion part of it

1681
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:50,560
because it is something I, I
vehement.

1682
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:54,800
I mean, it just, it's every part
of my my being knows this is a

1683
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:59,480
better way than alcohol.
And you know, I quit drinking in

1684
01:22:59,480 --> 01:23:03,360
2023.
Without going into too many

1685
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:08,440
detail, I mean, alcohol almost
destroyed my family.

1686
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:11,600
And again, without going into
the details area.

1687
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:15,840
So it's just, but in 2023, I
knew for years I've been like,

1688
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:17,600
man, I got to stop.
But I, you know, I'm in

1689
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:20,120
Wisconsinite.
I grew up southern Wisconsin.

1690
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,480
You know, you start drinking at
14, right?

1691
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,840
And day drinking.
Now I know the newer generations

1692
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:31,920
have grown up smart in a more
smart than we grew up in the way

1693
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,520
we handled business.
But you know, we handled

1694
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:38,800
business.
It was to self medicate, right?

1695
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,520
I mean, it was and and I mean,
that's was a way of life, day

1696
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:44,680
drinking as a way of life, you
know, but I do enjoy.

1697
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:46,360
But there's it's not all bad,
right?

1698
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:50,280
I mean, the idea of just being
able to grab a a couple cases

1699
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,520
and go be on a boat or go be on
a beach or go be on a golf

1700
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:56,760
course and just hang out or
watch sports all day and just be

1701
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:58,320
kicking them back and hanging
out.

1702
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:01,760
And, and it's just again, I
think part of like what, what

1703
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,000
makes, you know, going to
Lambeau Field so special?

1704
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,280
And like, you know, other teams
come in here, like, what are you

1705
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:07,440
guys?
You're so nice to us.

1706
01:24:07,440 --> 01:24:09,200
Like why?
Hey, man, we just we're just,

1707
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:12,480
you know, really the true heart
of it is just, hey, we're all in

1708
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:14,160
this life together.
Let's have some fun.

1709
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:17,400
Let's kick back, let's relax,
let's drink some beers and we're

1710
01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:20,000
going to be good, you know, and
I love that.

1711
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:25,000
And so when I quit drinking one,
I hate being a sober guy around

1712
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,280
everyone else who's drunk.
No, I don't think anyone likes

1713
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:28,800
that.
Yeah, drunk people are annoying.

1714
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:31,360
They are so annoying.
I was one of the most annoying.

1715
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,440
And.
And I just, I was like, I got to

1716
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:41,920
have something else that allows
me to, to socialize, you know,

1717
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:44,960
and to still day drink and hang
out and have, you know, I don't

1718
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:48,240
want to lose that aspect.
But I can't do alcohol anymore.

1719
01:24:48,480 --> 01:24:51,480
I cannot.
I am, I am, I am done, hard done

1720
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,680
with alcohol.
And you know, I just turned 50

1721
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:56,600
and like, you know, as we get
older, we don't metabolize

1722
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:58,920
alcohol.
It's harder as we all know, the

1723
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,720
hangovers you just don't bounce
back like you did when you're

1724
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:11,040
20, like, you know, 2118.
And so I marijuana has I didn't

1725
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,560
do marijuana in high school.
I was in the military for 15

1726
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:17,320
years, never did marijuana, then
got out of the military, tried

1727
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:20,640
it for the first couple times
hated all of my experiences.

1728
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:23,400
I hate being stoned.
I've only had maybe like 1

1729
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:26,480
positive or two positive stoned
experiences that I really like.

1730
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:27,920
Could say, OK, I kind of enjoyed
that.

1731
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:32,680
And I made-up I was, you know,
in my experimentation Phase, I

1732
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,600
was trying to roll a joint and
I, it took me an hour and I just

1733
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:39,280
sad, pathetic excuse for
whatever.

1734
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:40,880
It was a hard thing to do.
It was terrible.

1735
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:43,080
I got like 1 little hit tiny
little.

1736
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,520
Hit off it and.
But it gave me this, this really

1737
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:48,880
mellow buzz and, and at this
point, I mean, I was at the

1738
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:50,400
point where I was like, I'm done
with marijuana.

1739
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:53,040
Like I'm this is my last kind of
attempt to, to play with it.

1740
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:56,120
And this is many years ago.
This is before I stopped

1741
01:25:56,120 --> 01:26:00,280
drinking and, and I got this
gentle, mellow buzz and I was

1742
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:04,360
just, I was so, you know, I was
like, oh, I feel calm.

1743
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:09,240
I kind of feel happy.
I'm OK now, if this is

1744
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:11,760
marijuana, I can get on board
with this.

1745
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:15,480
But how do I do this?
Because I've done it many times

1746
01:26:15,480 --> 01:26:17,040
and I've only experienced this
one little time.

1747
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:19,800
And so, but that thought was
always in the back of my mind.

1748
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:21,360
I wonder how I could replicate
that.

1749
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,280
And then, you know, Fast forward
to, you know, now gummies, now

1750
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,800
things are more legal.
There's gummies out there now

1751
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,360
that, you know, it wasn't as big
a deal back when I was first

1752
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,440
experimenting.
So then I started saying, OK,

1753
01:26:33,440 --> 01:26:37,040
I'm not drinking anymore.
There were some gummies that if

1754
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:40,480
I broke it in half, you know it
it was a 5 milligram gummy.

1755
01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:41,960
If I cut it in half, OK, am I
OK?

1756
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:44,400
So then I started melting them
down and making beverages and I

1757
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,760
started doing micro dosing.
At the time I didn't know what

1758
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:49,000
that was.
I was like, which is a hilarious

1759
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:50,560
thing to start doing.
I think it's so cool.

1760
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:51,920
Like I'm just going to cut this
in.

1761
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,440
Half melt it down, put it in a
drink and really it's I mean

1762
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:58,280
truly September of 23 so I.
Quit drinking in September,

1763
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:01,120
Officially stopped, you know,
drinking alcohol in September of

1764
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:04,520
23.
At that time we had a, we had a,

1765
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:06,960
we're going to a Packer game.
I was taking my, my team to a

1766
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,520
Packer game.
And you know, everyone likes to

1767
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:12,040
drink and day drink.
And we're going to be, we're

1768
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:14,200
going to be, it was a Thursday
Night Football game against the

1769
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:16,920
Lions, which did not have the
result we had last night, which

1770
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:18,880
was a brutal game,
unfortunately.

1771
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:23,000
But I had brought all these
growlers I had made of my own

1772
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,920
and it was 2 milligrams per 12
ounces drink.

1773
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:30,120
And I drink that all three days.
That's all I drink.

1774
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:33,400
We'd be up at 10 in the morning.
They would be, you know, start

1775
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:35,560
with Bloody Mary's, just like I
always used to and then go into

1776
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:39,160
whatever, you know, drink day
drinking, you know, Lane,

1777
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:41,520
they're going to choose.
And I'm just drinking my 2

1778
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:45,600
milligram drinks.
And I, you know, I got to a, you

1779
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:49,600
know, a slightly buzzed, you
know, slightly high state.

1780
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:53,280
And it just, I just leveled off.
I could drink till 3:00 in the

1781
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:57,040
morning and I would be about the
same place.

1782
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:00,160
I was not sober, but I also was
not, I was totally in control.

1783
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:02,880
I remember everything and I had,
I wake up in the morning.

1784
01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:04,800
I was the last man standing.
I wake up in the morning, I have

1785
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,000
no hangover.
I'm like, I'm not dehydrated.

1786
01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:14,280
Maybe there's something here.
And based on what alcohol done

1787
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:17,240
to my family, what it was doing
to me physically, I was like,

1788
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,160
and this is really not healthy.
This is really, I mean, I think

1789
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:23,280
the veil is really starting to
come off alcohol a lot more.

1790
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,880
It is, it's a nasty, it's really
nasty, like what it does to

1791
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,560
humans and how it really kicks
down the door of your body.

1792
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,880
Like it, it is not playing with
your system nicely in any form

1793
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:34,520
or fashion.
It is just kicking the freaking

1794
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:36,680
door down and it's doing
whatever the hell it wants.

1795
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,720
And you were starting to
realize, and I didn't realize

1796
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:40,720
how toxic and it doesn't last
real long.

1797
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:43,680
But when the body processes
alcohol, it creates some really

1798
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,920
toxic, a very, very toxic
element.

1799
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:48,760
And it doesn't last very long in
the system.

1800
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:51,200
It converts to something else,
but it's a it's a very strong

1801
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:54,000
carcinogen.
And so it's like it's it is.

1802
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:56,080
And you start realizing how bad
this is.

1803
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:58,760
And now, OK, well, well, the
body actually has an

1804
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:02,920
endocannabinoid system.
Your body produces cannabinoids.

1805
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:06,560
It has receptors designed to
receive cannabinoids.

1806
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:09,160
You know, this is coming out of
a plant.

1807
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:11,920
Our body produces it.
And it's like, OK, well, maybe

1808
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:16,080
this is a gentler substance, It
may be a healthier substance.

1809
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:19,320
And we now we're finding out so
many different medical benefits.

1810
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,600
I have a son who's has very high
special needs.

1811
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:24,440
He has seizures.
Epilepsy is one of his

1812
01:29:24,440 --> 01:29:26,400
conditions.
He's a genetic disorder.

1813
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:28,560
And he, he, they're never going
to fix him.

1814
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:31,760
He used to see seizures and we
couldn't control him until he

1815
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:34,280
did medical marijuana.
Then we were able to get him

1816
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:37,600
under control Pharma.
He still does some pharma stuff.

1817
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:41,040
But at the end of the day, even
with maxed out pharma, we were

1818
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,960
not controlling his seizures.
But we started doing medical

1819
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:47,240
marijuana and we started to get
some control of the seizures.

1820
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:49,440
OK.
There's something there, you

1821
01:29:49,440 --> 01:29:51,760
know, And we're starting to
realize there's a lot of really

1822
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:54,200
powerful actions.
And we don't understand this

1823
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:56,440
plan is so complex.
But yeah.

1824
01:29:56,440 --> 01:29:57,560
And that's where the micro
dosing.

1825
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:01,680
So that's where the whole idea
of this company came about was

1826
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:04,480
from that experience.
I'm like, gosh, how much better

1827
01:30:04,480 --> 01:30:07,160
would the world be?
I just think about almost every

1828
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:10,200
of my major regrets in my life
revolve around me being drunk.

1829
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:13,360
I drink too much alcohol.
Almost every single one of my

1830
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:16,600
biggest life regrets revolves
around that.

1831
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:19,680
Like now you think about the
drunk driving, you think about

1832
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,080
all the fights at sporting
events or you know, all these

1833
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:25,000
kids when you get drunk and how
people get and you think about

1834
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:27,840
the decisions like it's a
completely different experience

1835
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:30,760
when you're doing THC and
especially at the microdose

1836
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,320
level because again, you're
always in control.

1837
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:34,960
You're not stoned, you're not
where am I?

1838
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:38,880
You're paranoid with this stuff
that doesn't exist because the

1839
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,560
body's processing it so quickly
with the, the emulsion we're

1840
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:44,720
using.
And you just, you just stay.

1841
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,680
You kind of, you can pick the
high that you want and you can

1842
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:50,920
just stay there for hour and
hour and hour and end.

1843
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:54,000
You stop drinking an hour and a
half to, you know, depending on

1844
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,880
how long you've been drinking,
you know, in a couple hours, you

1845
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:58,400
don't feel it anymore.
You're back to normal.

1846
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:00,840
And it's what I love about it.
There's no hangover.

1847
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:03,120
There's no, that's one of the
many things I love about it.

1848
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:07,160
But the world would be such a
healthier place if today they

1849
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:09,720
just everyone stopped drinking
alcohol, but they still wanted

1850
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:10,920
to drink.
They stopped drinking alcohol

1851
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:12,840
and they just start drinking
products like this.

1852
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,040
The world in undoubtedly would
be a better place.

1853
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:18,800
Hundred yeah, IA 100% agree,
right.

1854
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:22,040
And that's not even.
Getting into like that is

1855
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:24,800
literally just alcohol versus a
THC beverage.

1856
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:29,000
That's not even talking about
vitamins, no calories, right?

1857
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:31,160
You know, the other thing, the
electrolytes that we put in

1858
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:31,960
here.
The electrolytes, yeah.

1859
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:33,960
So we're trying to replenish the
system trying to build.

1860
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:36,760
The system up as we're enjoying
socially right instead of

1861
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:39,760
creating a poison and dumping
them, that's leaching.

1862
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:42,240
Your system of nutrients and
vitamins and everything else.

1863
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:44,040
Exactly.
No, we're trying to pump them

1864
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:45,520
back into you.
Yeah.

1865
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:50,000
Like, that's the fun part about
it, right?

1866
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:53,200
That's what brings the passion.
Learning about that stuff had to

1867
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:55,120
be like, like that's fun for
yeah.

1868
01:31:55,120 --> 01:31:58,160
I mean, I mean, honestly, the
creative, the artist, the art

1869
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:00,160
side.
Of me like I mean I love our

1870
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:03,280
cans the design we have a
phenomenal Adam Turner I'll I'll

1871
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:05,440
throw his name out there.
You can find him on Adam Turner

1872
01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:09,200
visuals.
Amazing, amazing talent and what

1873
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:11,520
I love about him.
So talking about, you know,

1874
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,960
being a leader and and make, you
know, taking some making some

1875
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:17,800
bold choices like he made he
he's in a very successful

1876
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:21,800
graphic design, you know, space,
but he's like, I want to be an

1877
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:23,120
artist.
And so he made the leap.

1878
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:26,200
He's trying to be a full time
painter and that's not an easy

1879
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:29,080
way to make a living, but he's
really going after it and he's

1880
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:30,840
starting, you know, he's
starting to gain some traction

1881
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:35,480
and he's a very talented, very
talented individual sculpting.

1882
01:32:35,480 --> 01:32:37,640
He does.
He's won championships for snow

1883
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:39,400
sculpting like at Breckenridge
Co.

1884
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:42,880
His team won gold medal and he's
really cool, really talented

1885
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,840
cat.
So it's I love he's designed

1886
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:48,360
these, you know, and we've
worked together, we've

1887
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:51,640
collaborated together to design
these and making the flavors

1888
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:54,680
and, and there's so much to
learn, right, Because I don't

1889
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:56,880
know anything about marketing.
No, I did a lot of home brewing.

1890
01:32:56,880 --> 01:32:59,040
I love cooking.
So, you know, making stuff

1891
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:02,160
tastes good.
That's part of that's kind of my

1892
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:03,880
art.
So that part of it I'm good

1893
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:05,280
with.
But you know, there's still a

1894
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,800
process, you know, to brew
things, the pasteurization, you

1895
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:12,720
know, when you put in the
flavouring, you know, everything

1896
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:14,120
you're doing, how you're
creating the flavors, where

1897
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:17,120
you're sourcing things, the
canning machine, which has been

1898
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:18,520
a night, the candy machine is a
nightmare.

1899
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:21,760
It's just there's so many moving
pieces and parts in that damn

1900
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:24,520
thing and it's a lot to keep it
dialed in.

1901
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:25,560
And we're learning all this
stuff.

1902
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:27,800
So, you know, there's, there's a
process of trial and error that

1903
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:29,920
you learn on all this stuff.
And then again, the marketing

1904
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:33,200
thing, the social media thing,
you know, now I think I have a

1905
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:35,160
great product.
You know, I've made it look

1906
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:37,240
good.
I've made it taste good.

1907
01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:39,800
It does the things I say it's
going to do.

1908
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:42,760
We're getting some really good
feedback.

1909
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:46,720
Now how do I but really this
market doesn't exist cause see

1910
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:49,560
I'm not making this drink for
weed people that are into weed.

1911
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:51,960
That's not what this drink is
designed for.

1912
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:56,240
I want I'm going after the 80%
of the population that has

1913
01:33:56,760 --> 01:33:57,920
probably has no interest in
weed.

1914
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:00,320
They probably had a bad
experience with it wrote it off

1915
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:02,760
or it's been illegal.
This is all you know, federally

1916
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:04,240
legal.
It's from hemp, it's not from

1917
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:05,320
marijuana.
It's a whole another

1918
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,600
conversation.
There's so much confusion about

1919
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:11,800
marijuana cannabis because of
this is because there's and it

1920
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:17,400
is very complicated, but they've
written it off and so I'm but

1921
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:20,320
I'm going after the 80% of the
population that right now really

1922
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:23,640
maybe isn't as curious or
doesn't really care is already

1923
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:27,280
written THC off.
That's who I'm after because I

1924
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:31,760
want to replace Miller Lite Bud
Light truly's white claws.

1925
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,040
That's why.
So we've made it affordable.

1926
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:37,840
You know, you can buy a 12 pack
for $18, but we're creating a

1927
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,080
market that truly doesn't exist
right now.

1928
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:42,280
There are people that are big
into THC 'cause they were always

1929
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:44,880
into THC before.
And if you look, most of the

1930
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:48,160
cans are 10 milligrams and up.
Now there are some other niche

1931
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:50,240
ones that are smaller, but it's
craft and they're really

1932
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:53,400
expensive.
You can't day drink with a $40 a

1933
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:56,800
four pack or whatever the hell
it is, you know, so it's wild.

1934
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:59,160
There's so many of those.
I know, I know you look, you

1935
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:00,120
showed me that one site and
it's.

1936
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:03,480
Like dude, this is 60.
Bucks for a six pack man, but

1937
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:05,760
why would I?
I'm not day drinking at 60 bucks

1938
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:08,040
a six pack.
That's just not going to happen.

1939
01:35:09,240 --> 01:35:10,440
So that's what we're trying to
make this.

1940
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:13,680
And and I there's no one in
America that's doing this right

1941
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:15,720
now.
I know this is a billion dollar

1942
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:17,840
company.
I don't know that we're going to

1943
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:21,120
be that billion dollar company,
but this idea is a billion

1944
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:22,480
dollar idea.
I have, I have.

1945
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:27,960
But what I have to keep
reminding myself of is enjoy the

1946
01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:30,760
adventure.
It's really not about the

1947
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:34,680
destination at the end of the
day, because you can maybe

1948
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:38,440
achieve your destination, but
what did you leave behind you?

1949
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:42,720
If you left nothing but burned
villages and, you know, just

1950
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,680
devastated mountainside behind
you, then you didn't.

1951
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:48,480
Doesn't matter what you, doesn't
matter where you got, doesn't

1952
01:35:48,480 --> 01:35:49,760
matter what you achieved.
It wasn't worth it.

1953
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,440
You know the journey of, you
know, the team that I got, you

1954
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:54,200
know?
You know Jill's.

1955
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:58,640
Amazing and Kyle and and Jack
who is our master Brewer and

1956
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:01,800
just and Mike who does helps me
with operations and what we're

1957
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:05,120
learning and how much they're
putting in and how much that's

1958
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:07,960
what matters that and right now,
you know our sales, we're not,

1959
01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:10,720
you know, because we're we're
going into a new market.

1960
01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:13,520
So it's not like, you know,
we're not, we're not dropping

1961
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,040
100,012 packs a month.
You know, that's not what we're

1962
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:17,840
selling right now.
You know, we're trying to get

1963
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:21,360
our name out there and it's
really one customer at a time.

1964
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:24,000
Well, how do you keep spending
the money?

1965
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:26,760
How do you keep putting the work
in when you're not getting the

1966
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:28,920
result?
And that's the terror part of it

1967
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:31,000
is like, I believe we got
something.

1968
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:32,960
I really truly do.
I believe in this.

1969
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:37,880
And whether or not it ends up
taking off, you know, and we end

1970
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:41,520
up being big, I'm always going
to make this, if only for

1971
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:43,760
myself.
I will be drinking this for the

1972
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:44,920
rest of my life.
And that's the other thing.

1973
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:47,880
I, I love that I'm selling
something that no, no, no, I'm

1974
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:50,760
not, I'm in, this is all I
drink.

1975
01:36:51,440 --> 01:36:54,000
I, you've, we've played golf.
I just was in Kauai.

1976
01:36:54,440 --> 01:36:58,120
I played 36 holes of golf.
I shot an 82.

1977
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:01,760
I was drinking, I was drinking
cruisers, 2 milligrams, you

1978
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:05,120
know, in a per, you know, I
probably had, I don't know,

1979
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:09,640
maybe 10 drinks each 18
somewhere around there,

1980
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:12,480
somewhere in that area.
I shot an 82 the first round.

1981
01:37:12,480 --> 01:37:14,960
I shot an 86 the second round.
You were in Kauai.

1982
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:16,040
Kauai, Hawaii.
Yeah.

1983
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:21,280
Oh, for my. 50th yeah, yeah.
So, but I was carousing.

1984
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:24,720
I don't know why the whole time.
I don't know why, but I I knew

1985
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:26,760
you were in Hawaii, but for some
reason I didn't know.

1986
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:28,800
Kauai was in Hawaii.
I feel silly.

1987
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:30,600
It's a different island.
Yeah.

1988
01:37:32,040 --> 01:37:33,760
Which it turns out.
I'd never been there before.

1989
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:34,800
It's my favorite island.
It's me.

1990
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:38,000
It's it's amazing island, It's
beautiful, it's peaceful.

1991
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:41,120
We put we golf the Prince, I
think the Prince Makai golf

1992
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:43,880
course, just gorgeous on
overlooking the ocean.

1993
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:47,480
It's it's amazing golf course.
But again, I'm, if I had been

1994
01:37:47,480 --> 01:37:50,480
drinking light beers, this
Michelob Ultra, which is what I

1995
01:37:50,480 --> 01:37:53,280
would have been drinking
otherwise after 18 holes.

1996
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:56,240
I mean, I'm lucky to get
through, you know where I'm at

1997
01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:59,000
in 18.
I couldn't have done 36.

1998
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:01,440
So you did 36?
Yeah, 36 at the end of the day

1999
01:38:01,440 --> 01:38:03,240
of Michelob ultras would have.
Been wild.

2000
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:05,880
Yeah.
And my brothers in law, they did

2001
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:08,920
a little bit of that.
Which is why I whoop their ass

2002
01:38:09,120 --> 01:38:11,320
every round.
Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna

2003
01:38:11,320 --> 01:38:13,400
joke about that.
The I was gonna joke about that

2004
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:14,840
earlier.
When you said you were probably

2005
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:16,760
still got that guy this morning,
there was probably still a

2006
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:19,800
couple people in the Airbnb
house that woke up a little

2007
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,040
squinty eyed and a little pound
in head.

2008
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:24,440
Yep.
And you were probably up, you

2009
01:38:24,440 --> 01:38:27,320
know, a little tired because it
was late night late, right?

2010
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:31,000
But yeah, not not hungover and.
Don't have the?

2011
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:34,000
Cold sweats, not worrying about
Oh my God throw up.

2012
01:38:35,240 --> 01:38:39,680
I remember everything, You know,
there's no oh, do I need to

2013
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:41,920
apologize?
Maybe I should apologize for

2014
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:44,640
that, you know, or did I say
that?

2015
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:48,160
You know, none of that, None of
that exists here.

2016
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:50,480
And it's funny because even
like, you know, my family too,

2017
01:38:50,480 --> 01:38:53,720
it's like, you know, I could
have had a couple Savvy's, you

2018
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,000
know, the 1kg or whatever and
they have no idea.

2019
01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:58,680
But you could, you knew if I had
three beers.

2020
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:00,760
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, they can tell.

2021
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:02,520
Or like if you had a 5 milligram
gummy.

2022
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:04,760
Or a 10 milligram gummy and.
You're around your your wife and

2023
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:06,480
kid.
You're not you.

2024
01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:11,600
Yeah, but you can drink the one,
the twos and even the threes and

2025
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:14,400
you can stay you and you can
stay present, but you can still

2026
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:16,680
take and you can take the edge
off and if it something comes

2027
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:18,680
up, you can stop drinking and
it's you're going to come right

2028
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:20,640
back down.
That's the beauty of the

2029
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:24,880
nanotech of that is in our THC
such small molecules body

2030
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,520
processes it really quick.
It's not like eating a gummy

2031
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:29,400
where it just takes hours and
hours.

2032
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:32,760
So you once that train leaves
the station, you got to run it's

2033
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:34,120
course.
You don't know how long that

2034
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:36,600
train's going to take this.
You know how long the train's

2035
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:37,560
going to take.
It's going to be.

2036
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,640
It's very repeatable.
It's always the same.

2037
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:42,600
There's never a surprise.
It's always the exact same.

2038
01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:45,240
And you get to be the conductor,
man, I do.

2039
01:39:45,320 --> 01:39:47,320
So now it's just a matter.
Like I said, now it's just a

2040
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,000
matter of getting people to.
Understand that this is a, a

2041
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:54,280
lifestyle alternative that's
available to them, getting them

2042
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:56,280
to.
And you think about, we've been

2043
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:58,440
drinking again since we were
teenagers, right?

2044
01:39:59,320 --> 01:40:01,000
You know what tequila's going to
do to you.

2045
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:02,440
You know what bourbon's going to
do to you.

2046
01:40:02,440 --> 01:40:04,000
You know what vodka's going to
do to you.

2047
01:40:04,240 --> 01:40:06,360
You know how many beers, how
many glasses of wine because

2048
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:07,760
you've, you've been drinking it
your whole life.

2049
01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:09,960
This.
I think part of what people are

2050
01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:11,840
a little bit nervous about is
they haven't drank this.

2051
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:16,160
They don't know.
That's why we do the 123 start

2052
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:19,920
with 1 milligram.
I promise you, you are not going

2053
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:24,120
off the rails on one milligram.
Drink them, drink 6, drink 8,

2054
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:25,560
drink 10.
See how you feel.

2055
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:27,520
You're going to be in control
the whole time.

2056
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:29,560
Well, that didn't really feel
much fine.

2057
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:33,400
Could not drink the two.
Drink the three, you know, and

2058
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:34,560
you can mix and match them and
all.

2059
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,400
And so, but people need to get
that.

2060
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:42,200
They need to start trying it and
getting that familiarity and

2061
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:44,000
that comfort level.
And that's part of it is getting

2062
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:47,160
people to say, OK, I'm willing
to try this now, even though I

2063
01:40:47,160 --> 01:40:50,200
swore off THC because I had such
a bad experience with the in

2064
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:55,160
college or wherever and see, OK,
how do I, how do I respond to

2065
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:56,880
this?
And again, it's inexpensive.

2066
01:40:56,880 --> 01:40:59,400
So you're not risking
financially, you're not making a

2067
01:40:59,400 --> 01:41:02,680
big investment.
It's 18 bucks for you can buy it

2068
01:41:02,680 --> 01:41:05,480
truly for more, you know, than
what we're selling this for.

2069
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,440
And you just, you know, try it.
And then over time you figure

2070
01:41:09,440 --> 01:41:12,760
out and like right now, I know
like really, I thought the savvy

2071
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:14,560
was my line.
I really Sloop is the 2

2072
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:17,320
milligram.
I'm really digging the that is

2073
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:20,280
really my speed.
If I want to go up, then I go to

2074
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:23,040
the three.
We do have 10's and and 20

2075
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:24,520
fives, but you and you can break
those down.

2076
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:26,360
So what I'll do is I'll take, if
I really want more, I'll take a

2077
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:29,480
10 and I'll mix it with A1.
And now I got, you know, 5 1/2

2078
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:33,080
milligrams per drink.
And so and I can come back down.

2079
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:34,960
I can go up, I can come back
down.

2080
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:37,520
And it's just a matter of
getting people willing to try

2081
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:40,080
that and to learn.
OK, what's your drink?

2082
01:41:40,160 --> 01:41:42,880
You know, OK, no, I can't.
Gin and tonic will do this if I

2083
01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:45,880
have three of them.
OK, if I have 3 sloops at 2

2084
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:49,800
milligrams, then I go to a
savvy, you know, again, you can,

2085
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:52,720
you can truly, you know, create
your own adventure if you will.

2086
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:54,920
And it's a super controlled, you
never have to worry about like

2087
01:41:54,920 --> 01:41:57,200
with alcohol.
Where's that magic drink?

2088
01:41:57,200 --> 01:41:59,600
Oh, I shouldn't have had that
6th 1:00 because that, that 6th

2089
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:02,080
1 turned me into 10.
We all heard that back in the

2090
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:05,120
drinking days.
Yeah, my best friend still has.

2091
01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:09,360
Funny stories about how he would
wait till I had a certain drank

2092
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:12,160
a certain amount of beers and
that's when he would buy me a

2093
01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:13,080
Jack Daniels.
That's right.

2094
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:16,000
And that's going to put you over
the line and then and it's going

2095
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:17,520
to be a fun night.
Yeah, absolutely.

2096
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:19,400
So you don't remember anything?
Exactly.

2097
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:22,800
Yeah, certainly.
Don't miss it, my friend.

2098
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:26,000
No, I, I and I I.
Mean I I should have quit I.

2099
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:28,640
It was on my heart to quit a lot
longer, a lot earlier than I

2100
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:29,240
did.
I should have.

2101
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:32,360
It would have been better for my
family, certainly would have

2102
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:35,920
been better for me.
I don't miss it, you know, I'll

2103
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:38,200
still have like there's certain,
you know, and that's the other

2104
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:42,240
thing, I guess I think this part
is there is a value to the

2105
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:45,880
social component of alcohol.
Yeah, 100% the feeling of

2106
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:48,680
getting a martini in the glass
that it's in and how that is or

2107
01:42:48,680 --> 01:42:51,200
how many people are married
today because they had an

2108
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:53,360
alcoholic beverage at one point,
right.

2109
01:42:53,440 --> 01:42:54,800
Yeah, cuz.
Talk to somebody.

2110
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:57,200
Yeah, you can just freeze.
You up a little bit more.

2111
01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:01,120
It is swing Lube kind of a
thing, but that whole thing, you

2112
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:03,960
know, the process of making an
old fashioned, you know, it's

2113
01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:07,000
just there is a social and we
are trying.

2114
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:09,160
I mean that's when we have our
concoctions and that's what

2115
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:12,240
we're trying to make our lines
about too, is that you can kind

2116
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:14,360
of do some mixology.
You can we you know, you can

2117
01:43:14,360 --> 01:43:17,200
make a carouser Rita, you want a
Margarita, you want that same

2118
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:18,480
experience.
You can do that with this and

2119
01:43:18,480 --> 01:43:20,960
with THC.
The new cart coolers, The new

2120
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:23,000
cart cooler essentially is a
take off on Arnold.

2121
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:25,200
Palmer, right, But this is.
Really cool because it's using

2122
01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:30,040
Guayusa for its tea flavor,
which is a has nootropic, has

2123
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:32,800
caffeine and so it's a mood
enhancer.

2124
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:35,720
It's known the studies have
proven it increases your focus.

2125
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:38,720
It it's better energy for you.
It's still caffeine, but it's a

2126
01:43:38,720 --> 01:43:41,040
healthier.
You don't get the jitters, you

2127
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:42,320
don't get the negative side
effects.

2128
01:43:42,320 --> 01:43:44,240
Like they've done studies with
professional gamers where they,

2129
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:47,040
they're like hand eye
coordination increases 15 to 18%

2130
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:50,200
and some crazy stuff like the
the and that's what's in this.

2131
01:43:50,360 --> 01:43:52,880
It's not just tea.
It's actually giving you

2132
01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:55,480
something back and it's a 2
milligrams and this is my new

2133
01:43:55,480 --> 01:43:58,320
favorite drink.
I don't, I prefer still drinks.

2134
01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:01,040
This one has no carbonation,
which because I you don't get as

2135
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:03,760
bloated, which I like too.
But, and that's what I love.

2136
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:06,560
I know that what we're putting
out there can really help

2137
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:08,320
people.
It can, it can really help

2138
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:10,040
people that haven't maybe
struggling with alcohol.

2139
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:12,400
They need to get a break.
They need to break away from it

2140
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:15,280
or they just want to engage
different socially, you know,

2141
01:44:15,480 --> 01:44:17,320
women, you know, especially
women age.

2142
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:18,760
Alcohol is really, really rough
on them.

2143
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:21,360
That's why Savvy exists.
The whole Savvy line is designed

2144
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:26,760
for women because it is so
difficult as we all age, we, we

2145
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:29,120
don't, we don't metabolize
alcohol as well.

2146
01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:30,600
And it, it's rougher on our
systems.

2147
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:34,040
So that's why these, you know,
these lines are designed.

2148
01:44:34,160 --> 01:44:37,800
And I know from a flavour aspect
and, and the things that we're

2149
01:44:37,800 --> 01:44:40,400
trying to put back into it
again, it's all about having,

2150
01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:45,400
you know, a positive experience
to be uplifted, you know, mood

2151
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:50,000
enhanced, kind of take the edge
off, but not lose who you are

2152
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:55,840
and, and not lose control.
Well, don't lose who you are, my

2153
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:56,280
friend.
Keep.

2154
01:44:56,440 --> 01:44:58,400
Keep leading.
Keep forging.

2155
01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:00,120
Along I'm excited to come along
for the.

2156
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:03,160
Ride and it.
Was great having the chat man.

2157
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:06,400
I appreciate you coming on it
was it was good to keep on

2158
01:45:06,400 --> 01:45:08,160
deepening.
So I appreciate you sharing some

2159
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:09,600
of your story with us.
Absolutely.

2160
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:11,320
And thank you, man.
I mean, this has been a great

2161
01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:13,800
getting to know you and and.
What you've done, what you've

2162
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:16,440
done for us and what you
continue to do for us, it's

2163
01:45:16,440 --> 01:45:18,520
just, it's we'll see.
We don't know where it's going

2164
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:20,760
to end.
But look, just enjoying the walk

2165
01:45:20,760 --> 01:45:22,000
with you, man.
Absolutely.

2166
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:22,440
Thanks, Dan.