Christopher Kessenich - Arts Fishing Club, Songwriting, Bob Dylan, and Art vs Fishing - Ep#51

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What's up, friends?
Welcome back to Rooted

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Wisconsin.
Appreciate you for clicking

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another episode.
Grateful to have you here.

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Today's episode is with
Christopher Kessnick from Arts

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Fishing Club.
Crossed paths with Christopher

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recently scheduled to get him on
the podcast and had an awesome

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conversation.
He invited me to his family's

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cabin in northern Wisconsin,
which is where we did the

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episode.
Really fun, really hospitable.

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His entire family was there on
the way up.

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I talked to him on the phone and
he's like, there's 30 kids here,

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so we're going to have to find a
place that's quiet.

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But had a blast, man, And really
fun to chat with him about the

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grind of being a musician and
the creative process and growing

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an audience and the creative
process and what it takes to

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devote your life to being a
career musician, which is

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fascinating and surely not for
the faint of heart.

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They're definitely making a go
of it, though.

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I got a chance to see him at
Mile of Music a few weeks after

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I went down and went up and
recorded the episode with them.

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Absolutely blew the doors off
the audience and I wasn't

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surprised.
You'll hear as I kick off the

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episode.
I want to spoil the whole thing,

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but I plan to listen to about,
you know, 30 minutes of Arts

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Fishing Club on the way up to
record his episode.

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Didn't end up going that way for
me in a good way.

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Check it out to see how long it
lasted.

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But got this sick Arts Fishing
Club hat, had an awesome

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conversation and I'm pumped up
to share it with you.

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Shout out to our sponsors at
Riverside Pizzeria of Green Bay

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and of course our new partners
at Carouser.

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This is the second episode after
we partnered with Carouser.

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Big news coming with them in
September.

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We're going to be tailgating at
the Packer game on Thursday,

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September 11th.
It's a veteran owned business.

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I'm going to get Dan, the owner
and founder of Carouser on the

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podcast in a couple months and
we're going to talk about his

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journey and it's fascinating,
but come tailgate with us first.

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We're going to corrals all day.
We want you there with us.

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We'll see you there on September
11th.

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But first today, enjoy the
episode Christopher Kessnik.

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So have the ways we try to lift
our neighbors.

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Where did the world go?
Where did the talk?

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And we need to help to make this
all right.

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Man pumped up the chat.
Yeah, dude.

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Stoked, stoked.
So I.

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Got a little different way to
start today.

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I'm I'm excited about this
because I, I'm, I listen to pod.

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I like listening to podcasts a
lot and drove 3 hours to come

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see you today.
So I'm thinking the whole time

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I'm like, okay, I'm going to get
a couple podcasts locked and

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loaded and I'm going to have
something to pass the drive.

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That's when I listen to most.
So I have a three-year old old

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at home and my type of work that
I do, it doesn't bode well to

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listening to podcast.
So as much as I like them, I

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have these pockets of where I
can listen totally.

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So I pop in today and I'm
thinking for the first, you

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know, half hour of the driver.
So I've been checking out some

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of your tunes.
So I'm thinking first half hour

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of the drive I'm going to Arts
Fishing Club and then the rest

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I'm going to podcast.
So 3 hours in, dude, I pulled

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in.
I was still listening to an arts

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fishing club.
No way.

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Dead serious.
Dang, yeah.

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So I had listened to some, I
mean, since we connected on

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Instagram, kind of talked about
getting you on the podcast.

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I, I checked out some songs and
I, I dug the vibe from the

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beginning, but I didn't have
time to like, take a deep dive

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into your catalog.
Cool.

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And like I, the proof is in the
pudding 3 hours later.

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Wow, I listened the entire way.
There's probably three songs I

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would say, or 4 songs that I
listened to close to double

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digit times.
Wow, on the way here.

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No way.
Unbelievable you've gained a

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lifetime fan out of this.
Thanks.

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Wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, I was not expecting.

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Neither was I I was.
I was expecting to listen to Lex

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Friedman.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Or something.
And I3 hours and I it didn't.

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It didn't lose me.
It's just banger after banger.

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And well, thanks.
And I think I got like it kind

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of the bummer about it is I
don't know where they landed in

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your catalog or your timeline.
Sure.

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It was just what Spotify fed me
because I started with the I

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think what a lot of people do
Tupelo honey on on one 100% you

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jump on Spotify, you click 1.
And I'm thinking, OK, my half

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hour will get me through these
10 and then I'll pop over to

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something else.
And like, I never even

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considered it.
I never thought about it.

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And there's a lot of reasons to
that, but one that I think is a

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great place to start our
conversation is a lot of it

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resonated with me emotionally.
So I'm a, I'm a lyrical listener

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to music.
I listen to lyrics primarily.

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And that's kind of what draws me
in and what keeps me.

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And there were several songs
that resonated deeply with me on

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an on an emotional level in a
just a, a vibe that connected.

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Yeah, in a in a great way.
So kind of fanboy and to start

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the episode off.
But hey, I dig it, man.

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I really dig it.
Wow.

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No, I mean, that is the most
insanely cool compliment and

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just story.
I wasn't expecting that at all.

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Yeah, no, I I'm honored to hear
that.

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So thank you.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
So where does where does the

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songwriting start for you?
Then where does?

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Where does?
Where do those come from?

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Yeah.
I mean, good question, doesn't?

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Ultimately, feel like you like
me, you know it.

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Definitely, when you're like
writing a song, there are times

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where it feels like it's.
There will be times where you're

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writing.
And I think you've probably

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heard a million interviews with
other musicians talk about how

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it's all sudden just like, OK,
where did that come from?

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You know there's this.
This period when you're in the

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flow state.
And creating, I think where it

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yeah, you feel much more like a
conduit then I guess then in

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kind of deliberate control like
an an antenna.

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I mean, Rick Rubin talks about
it how it's like, we're the.

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Ideas are all just floating in
the.

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Ether and you know, artists or
musicians or whatever are just

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kind of antenna.
And if you don't it, it takes

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the conscious choice to like put
in the work to finish and to

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grab that idea.
But it's not really your idea.

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And if you don't grab it right
now, it's going to find another

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antenna and it's going to come
down, which I think is a very

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cool, you know, Rick Rubin, he's
he's made some cool records.

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And is a pretty cool.
Insight into the creative

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process.
So yeah, no, I, I feel often

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it's, it starts with me on an
acoustic guitar in, you know, my

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bedroom or wherever, just
messing around.

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And I'll start playing something
on guitar that I like the way

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that it sounds.
And then I'll sing just

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gibberish over it.
And all of a sudden some weird

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random line will come out that's
like, oh, that's kind of cool.

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What what's that mean?
And then you'd build the song

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from there, yeah.
Yeah, I can't remember the

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artist, but I saw another like
exact mirror of that recently

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where the the the thing was the
pen that that was, it was the

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choice to pick up the pen.
But then that same thing that

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you're talking about.
Yep, controls the pen.

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It controls what comes out of it
totally, and you're the medium.

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Totally.
I wish I remembered who that was

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right now, because it's exactly
what you're saying.

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Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's a pretty common.

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There's a lot of musicians that
I think have talked about it in,

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in a sort of way and, and
there's not only one way to

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write a song too, there's other
ways that and there have been

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times where it's OK, I'm really
being deliberate here.

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And it doesn't feel like you're
channeling anything and it, and

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it feels a lot more just like
structured work or something

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like that.
But yeah, no, there's, I think

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John Mayer has a has a fun
interview where he talks about

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it a little bit too.
Yeah, yeah.

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Cool.
Well, yeah, hooked from from the

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beginning and.
That's.

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What were were there?
Any specific songs or anything

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that stuck out?
Or there were.

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I wish this didn't happen today,
that I could remember the names

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of them well.
But there's a a cigarette

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something.
Yeah, Cigarette.

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Phase.
Yeah, Cigarette phase was really

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good.
There's one that you talked

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about.
The chorus is about loving

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everyone.
The song's about loving

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everyone.
Can't remember the name of it,

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but you have this.
Say it.

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With us all.
With us all, yeah.

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And you have this visceral part
in the third verse where you say

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it's embarrassing not to get it
verbatim in front of you, but

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you say something like if you're
the concept is if you're sending

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them to hell, burn me with them.
Yeah, yeah.

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Dude.
And is that the same song as the

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first verse do?
Is it where it says talks about

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the father connecting with the
son?

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Yeah.
Exactly.

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Dude, that's one of those
emotional things.

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Like, that's a central piece of
my life right now and my being.

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And when like it brought this
wave of emotion over me when you

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said look your son in the eye
and tell him you love.

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Him.
Yeah, yeah.

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That means a lot.
Well, thanks.

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Yeah, No, I appreciate it.
Yeah, I I yeah, I don't know.

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I don't even know.
But yeah, that song.

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That song, definitely.
Feels like one of the more, I

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guess kind of important songs
that I've written.

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It's called With Us All.
Basically, within one week, I

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had three completely separate
friends or people in my life

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tell me a very, very similar
story about how their parents

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kind of disowned them or who
they were.

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And for all three of them, it
was just their sexual

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orientation.
They were, you know, gay or

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bisexual.
And all of their parents had

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been very, very, just devoutly
religious.

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And it's just weird because
that's a, you know, those are

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kind of heavy conversations.
And the fact that I had the

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exact same conversation with
three people within one week was

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totally random.
And each time, you know, it was

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kind of hitting me as like, oh,
this emotional weight.

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And by the third time, I just
like, went home and that song

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just fell out again.
And and so it's that kind of

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that idea, that emotion,
whatever it was, was kind of

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floating around me in the ether,
I think.

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And yeah.
And, and, and so that that song

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just kind of came out.
And right away I was kind of, I

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was really angry when I was
writing that song, kind of like

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pointing the finger of like, oh,
like, don't be bigoted, you

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know?
And, and it was a lot of kind of

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pointy language.
And as I was working on it more

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and more, I just kind of felt
more and more almost guilty of

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the sense of, gosh, it's so easy
to point the finger, but how

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many times am I bigoted in my
own way or like, you know, doing

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something where that's outside
of my awareness?

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And it's kind of like, it's just
hard.

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It's it's hard to call people
out without calling yourself out

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first.
You know what I mean?

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A little bit.
And and that's what I was trying

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to accomplish with that song was
I wanted to both be like, hey,

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this isn't cool.
It's not OK.

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But also I'm.
Guilty of not being perfect

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either and like there is the
whole point in the finger thing

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doesn't really work too too well
in in my opinion.

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So it's, that's why the song is,
you know, oh, I'm in love with

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us all, like with us all.
And even, you know, yeah.

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I thought you crafted it
perfectly of sending that

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message because it's hard to do.
And that's something in society

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00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,760
right now that it's hard to do,
where people have very staunch

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beliefs and it's hard to express
those beliefs for some people at

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times while calling others in
and being cool, saying like, you

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know, blind spots happen.
We all have them, but doing it

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00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,600
in a way that calls people in.
I have a lot of friends on all

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sides of the aisle on different
things.

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I think that's one of the
reasons the song resonated with

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me a lot is because I I feel
that way.

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I love us all.
Everybody has worth and value in

235
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like your opinions come from a
valid place most of the time

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except for the fringe, fringe
society.

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Then I think they get far more
publicity because of things like

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social media and stuff.
But like, for the most part,

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people's thoughts, opinions,
beliefs come from a pretty solid

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place.
And we just have to find a way

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to be able to do what you did in
that song and really toe the

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line well of expressing
something that you were

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00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,120
passionate about and believed
well, at the same time saying

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like, hey, it's cool that you
believe what you do, but let's

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00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,840
talk about it.
Yeah, let's bring this up.

246
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,360
I mean, master class And that
that, that, that was one that

247
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really stuck out to me.
What was another one that

248
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,440
there's another one that talks
about?

249
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,320
The part that sticks out of the
song to me right now is about

250
00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,160
Ingest kind of talking about
going to the voting booth and

251
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:07,000
being a good American.
Man, I'm trying to think.

252
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,200
I think I know what you're
talking.

253
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,720
All right, I do know what you're
talking about.

254
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,040
Is it a deep cut?
Is an arts fishing club it?

255
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,120
Probably is.
I mean, yeah, yeah.

256
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,720
No, there, there's a.
There's a lot.

257
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,400
Of deep cuts at this point this.
Conversation.

258
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,880
I'm going to stand up this
conversation.

259
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:21,160
I'm going to.
Get my phone?

260
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,400
Sure.
We'll cut that segment out

261
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,720
because this is this is worthy
of the conversation.

262
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,240
Oh, Blue Ridge Skyline was
really good.

263
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,320
That was one of those bring you
to a place in time songs that

264
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,920
like I think a lot of people can
relate to.

265
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,560
Is that the one?
Is there something about being

266
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,960
23 years old in that, in that
song, or is that?

267
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,200
Different that's not that one
that's that one is called rare

268
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,520
into Rome that.
Was rare into Rome.

269
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,520
One of the first songs I've ever
written was rare.

270
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,160
Into Rome.
Yeah, yeah.

271
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,200
OK, so that one I wrote a song
one time and I I don't want to

272
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,600
like I'm not a musician of any
kind, but I have I have written

273
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,240
some songs in in the past and I
wrote a song one time that has a

274
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line that's 27 years straight up
raising hell.

275
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Sometimes I'm surprised I live
to tell.

276
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And your your like, adage of
being 23 and like the ability to

277
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:18,320
put feeling and emotion and like
where you were in that place in

278
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,280
that sure was really good.
And and then and that's such a

279
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,720
that's an outside theme of the
song because of the central

280
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,440
theme is pretty obvious in the
song, but I thought that was

281
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,400
really nicely done too.
Man, thanks.

282
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,520
Thank you.
I'm so.

283
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,840
Stoked that you're that you're
digging the tunes.

284
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,440
Yeah, I and like I said, it was
completely, it was completely

285
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,560
unexpected.
I, I just wanted to be prepared

286
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,200
enough for the podcast to talk
with you because the podcast is

287
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,720
about, I don't know how much
you've listened, but it's about

288
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,080
exploring the person.
It's rarely like it's about what

289
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,200
you do.
We're going to talk about music

290
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,600
today, but it's very out of the
ordinary to come in and just

291
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,000
like jump into exactly what you
do because I want to know you as

292
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,840
the person, not as your body of
work.

293
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,440
But in this this specific
instance, your body of work had

294
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,360
to be talked about first because
just because of the happenstance

295
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,960
of the drive and like hopping in
and like, I don't know, I, I

296
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,760
can't remember the last time I
miss listened to music for three

297
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,080
hours straight.
It's especially from the same

298
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,240
band.
Totally.

299
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:22,920
Well, wow.
No, I.

300
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,240
You can't even.
I can't even begin to.

301
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,200
Express how much of a compliment
and how much I appreciate that

302
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,560
cause yeah, it can.
It's it's not the most, it's not

303
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,440
the easiest business in.
Career.

304
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,560
So it's a yeah, it's a wild one.
That's probably something cool

305
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,760
to talk about, ma'am.
What is that like?

306
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:47,080
What is it like to at the same
point, you have to have this

307
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,440
unwavering faith in yourself and
belief in what you're doing and

308
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,240
at, you know, you're always
progressing and getting better,

309
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,840
but at the same time doing what
you do, you're constantly being

310
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,160
judged and scrutinized for what
you create.

311
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,640
Oh yes, art.
What's that like, dude?

312
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,720
How do you deal with that?
It.

313
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,319
It's funny, there was someone
on.

314
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,960
For the most part, it, you know,
we're a small enough band at

315
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,440
this point that I've never
really had any huge issues with

316
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,480
it.
But there was there was someone

317
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,240
the other day because we're
posting like Tik Toks and social

318
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,480
media, just trying to do the
marketing thing and really

319
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,640
trying to lean in.
And someone made a comment on it

320
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,600
that was just like on one or two
went to multiple posts just to

321
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,360
like talk like just to make fun
of.

322
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,680
And it was just like that was
one of the first time I had

323
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,960
experienced that where it's
like, OK, you know, sure, if

324
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:48,040
someone makes a comment on one
post, but like to actively go on

325
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:53,200
a multiple, like seek out other
videos to then also tear down

326
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,360
was just like a.
Weird, I don't think I've.

327
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,320
I've I've been exposed to that.
That was kind of like the first

328
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,000
time where I was like, oh man,
the Internet at some can can

329
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,160
really have some dark energies
to it at at some point.

330
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,360
And I'm a sensitive guy.
You know, I'm a, I'm very

331
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,640
empathetic and I'm kind of a,
you know, I was describing

332
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,480
myself as.
Either a golden retriever or

333
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,040
like a.
A a black lab type of energy

334
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,320
where it's and I think a lot of
people from Wisconsin are very

335
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,600
golden retriever energy where
it's like.

336
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,800
Hey, everything's we love you.
We love you like we're very

337
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,560
positive people in Wisconsin.
Where, you know, a lot of other

338
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,800
people around the country and
other cultures, like, you know,

339
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,520
aren't as just like, hey, hey,
how you doing?

340
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,480
Come grab a beer, you know, like
as inviting.

341
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,880
So yeah, it was just, it's
interesting to be exposed to

342
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,080
that because it's just so out of
my nature.

343
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,560
I I genuinely, it's very
difficult for me to not like a

344
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,960
person like it.
It's really hard.

345
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,680
And usually even if I don't like
them, I'm like, oh, but they

346
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,720
were probably just having a bad
day or just like, oh, you know,

347
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,320
oh, I probably just.
Didn't get to know them good

348
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,640
enough, you know.
So yeah, it's it's.

349
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,200
Interesting.
But I think just like anything

350
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,640
else, like, yeah, you accept
that you're putting yourself out

351
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,280
there and you just, yeah, the
people are, there's going to be

352
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,960
a bunch of people that don't
like it.

353
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,040
There's going to be a bunch of
people that talk shit.

354
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,720
There's, you know, and you're
just faced with the question,

355
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,960
all right, do you still do it or
do you want to hide from the

356
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,640
couple people that might be
haters?

357
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,920
The Internet abyss.
Yeah, exactly.

358
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:50,200
So you just keep going.
Nice yeah, yeah and like that

359
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,520
can't so that yourself described
image of yourself 1 you gave me

360
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,880
an awesome clip there The root
of Wisconsin talking about

361
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,000
Wisconsin.
That's gonna be a great clip.

362
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,120
So thank you for that.
But that came through like you

363
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:06,640
can't write songs like you would
like I was talking about earlier

364
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,040
if you don't feel that way and,
and feel in a way that's deep

365
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,280
and, and meaningful and caring
and.

366
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,960
That does go both ways, man.
It does it you, you get that

367
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:24,040
person that you know, no matter
how much you realize that it's

368
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,400
that's something inward on them,
like it's probably nothing to do

369
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,080
with you totally.
No matter how much you realize

370
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,840
that, there's still this little
nagging brain worm that gets in

371
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,560
and says, is it Like, is it, you
know?

372
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:36,960
Totally.
It's tough.

373
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,200
Yeah, no, just mean things are
mean, like.

374
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,120
Like there's no.
You can't Unsee it.

375
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:45,240
Like you can't.
You can't.

376
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,480
If you punch somebody, like even
if it was kind of a joke, it's

377
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,320
like they still get hit, like
they still feel it, you know?

378
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,800
So it is funny.
But yeah, I don't know.

379
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,960
I mean, music overall, like
Nashville is an incredibly,

380
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,960
incredibly supportive community,
which is really cool.

381
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,480
The.
More and more time I spend in

382
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:14,640
Nashville just the more I'm
blown away by how really special

383
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,560
I I think.
I think the you know, there

384
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,080
might be like in decades.
You know, looking back at the

385
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,560
moment that Nashville's kind of
having as a creative city right

386
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,520
now, and people are going to
look back as, wow, there was

387
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,400
something really special going
on there, which is cool.

388
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,760
It's really awesome to be a part
of.

389
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:42,520
And just like the genuine bands
aren't competitive in the sense

390
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,680
of like we're all struggling
because it's, you know, it's a

391
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,880
it's a winner take all industry
where it's like, you know,

392
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,440
nothing's happening, nothing's
happening, nothing's happening.

393
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,480
And then finally something's
happening for you.

394
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,160
And that's the, you know, one
half a percent of people you

395
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,280
know, but.
Everybody is just.

396
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,720
For the most part really just
happy for each other and trying

397
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,800
to.
Help each other.

398
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,400
Raise each other up.
Which is really cool 'cause I've

399
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,640
heard stories about LA and New
York in like previous era eras

400
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,360
where it was the creative scenes
were way more cutthroat and

401
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,400
competitive.
And I don't feel that in

402
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,400
Nashville at all.
That was another cool song.

403
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,520
Hollywood, right?
Yeah, yeah, That was another

404
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,880
cool song.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

405
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,560
So let's turn back the clock a
little bit, man.

406
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,400
Where?
Where does that, like when did

407
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,440
you start playing?
And then when did you decide

408
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,520
that that was that you were
going to do it?

409
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,240
When when when did you turn it
into it?

410
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:49,880
Yeah, I started playing.
I mean, I took some guitar

411
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:56,280
lessons in like 4th grade, my
mom, I think, asked if I wanted

412
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:57,480
to play an instrument or
something.

413
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,840
And then I took guitar lessons
for maybe six months and then

414
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,600
quit.
And then I started picking it up

415
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,080
again, I think 8th grade or.
Freshman year of high school and

416
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,400
just started teaching myself off
YouTube mostly.

417
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,200
And every now and again I would
kind of ask and maybe I would

418
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,040
get in some lessons for a little
bit and but mostly was just

419
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,720
teaching myself.
And during that period, like,

420
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,040
I'd gone to some shows or in
middle school and I just

421
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,000
remembered being in these
massive shows and just thinking,

422
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,480
you know, that this is just like
the greatest party I've ever

423
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,080
been to.
And those people just decided to

424
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,400
throw this party for all these
people, you know, the people on

425
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,800
stage.
And I just remember that hitting

426
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:54,400
me as I want to do that.
But again, it's, you know, I

427
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,560
grew up in Appleton, WI.
Like there isn't being a

428
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,920
professional musician is not a
real choice.

429
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,600
You know what I mean?
Like it's it's not, you've never

430
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,720
heard of anyone that's ever done
it professionally in the entire

431
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,760
state at the time, essentially.
I mean, there's a couple bands

432
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,280
that you've been like, Oh yeah,
I guess they're technically from

433
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,440
here.
But it's not like anyone that

434
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,960
you're rubbing shoulders with in
your community.

435
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,000
So they almost feel like gods
are like, you know, these chosen

436
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,200
people or something that not
real humans.

437
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:37,840
And yeah, I, I kind of kept
working behind the scenes

438
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:43,680
because I just had this sense
and belief that they were just

439
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,760
people, you know, the people
that I was seeing on stage and

440
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,680
they just decided to work at it.
And I'd played a bunch of sports

441
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:54,480
and my family was a much more
sports oriented family.

442
00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:00,560
So I think I grasped the concept
of I remember being really tiny

443
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,800
and skinny and then.
I went to football practice for

444
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,840
two or three years.
And then I was like jacked and

445
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:14,000
in shape and like, so that that
that experience of just a little

446
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,280
bit of work every day towards
something you can really

447
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,080
transform yourself.
And I think sports taught me

448
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:27,360
that in a big, big way where I
just was like, OK, well, you

449
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:31,680
know, I, I'm going to be working
until I'm 70 years old.

450
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,560
I, I hope so.
I got 50 years minimum.

451
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,440
Like to figure this out with the
music.

452
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,080
I just started betting on myself
and just started working behind

453
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,040
the scenes at it.
And slowly but surely there

454
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,000
would be people that gave me
better and better kind of

455
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:58,280
feedback and support.
And I actually got to study for,

456
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,040
for nine months.
I, I lived for a year in Vienna,

457
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,680
Austria.
And I started playing on the

458
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:11,680
street there when I was like 21,
I think, and or 22.

459
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,000
And I started making a lot of
money playing on the street in

460
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,680
Vienna.
And that's where I really, that

461
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,360
was where the shift happened of
like, Oh no, no, no, I'm doing

462
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:23,920
this.
Once I started, you know, I

463
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,000
would go out for an hour or two
hours and I'd come back with two

464
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,840
hundred 200 bucks.
And I was like, OK, I'm making

465
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,440
$100.00 an hour right now
playing music.

466
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:38,840
And I know that I'm bad.
I'm going to do this and that.

467
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,960
And I just from then on have
been pretty head down.

468
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,200
That's where a lot of people cut
their chops.

469
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,400
There was a really interesting
episode of Rogan recently with

470
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,240
Charlie Crockett, and he was
talking about cutting his chops

471
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,240
on the subway, playing, playing
music on the subway.

472
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,440
But that has to be a thing.
I remember I was in Nashville.

473
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,400
I took a trip to Nashville in my
early 20s and I saw I saw the

474
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,040
Lost Dog St. band.
At the time, I didn't know

475
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,560
anything about them, and they
were relatively unknown at that

476
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,800
time.
And cutting their chops on the

477
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,800
street, like just literally
going out playing for playing

478
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,800
for cash.
Yeah.

479
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:20,560
And I, I think did that was a
transformative in the type of

480
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,480
music you played.
Like, did that advance you as a

481
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,680
musician?
Both like maybe not so much

482
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,840
writing, but like in your
performance style and how to

483
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,360
captivate and pull in an
audience.

484
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,640
I think so.
I think so a little bit.

485
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,320
I think, I mean, honestly,
shedding on stage like takes a

486
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,440
long stage.
It being on stage takes a long

487
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,080
time of like slowly but surely
like you get, you really do get

488
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,040
better the more that you're on
stage.

489
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,400
I think for me it was more just
like, OK, I'm practicing, I'm

490
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:58,120
playing in my room for hours.
It would be kind of nice to I'm

491
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,120
I'm going to be doing it anyway.
Let's just go out.

492
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,840
Go outside and do it and then I
would like get paid money and I

493
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,680
wasn't expecting to get paid
money.

494
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:13,000
I, I just thought, you know, I'm
doing it anyway, might as well

495
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,200
give it a chance of getting some
money.

496
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,360
And then when I people started
giving me real money and like

497
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,840
sitting and watching for a
while, that's what made it click

498
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,120
in my brain of like, oh, there's
like, you know, there's

499
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:31,480
something here.
You, you got to do this and,

500
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,160
and, and you, you don't realize
how it's rare people.

501
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,440
There's not that many people
that play instruments or sing

502
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,040
songs like, you know, you.
You kind of forget.

503
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,000
Because I knew I was.
Bad at the time, but it's, it's

504
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,080
just, you know, I think it's
shocking enough or whatever for

505
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,520
a lot of people.
They're just, if anyone has a

506
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,880
guitar around, they're like,
hey, play, you know, play, play.

507
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,960
It's such a gift for people and
and you kind of don't remember

508
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,600
that at times because you have
these ambitions and these things

509
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,200
that you're interested in.
So you you start to and you

510
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,360
think of all the people that are
doing it better than you.

511
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,800
So you diminish yourself.
But really it's it's just AI

512
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,680
mean to sit around a campfire
and sing songs with people.

513
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,080
You know, even pre instruments
is one of the most human things,

514
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:32,280
human experiences.
People love to be together

515
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,840
making music and and be a part
of music.

516
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,480
It's magic.
So yeah, I don't know.

517
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,360
That's a really interesting way
to look at it man.

518
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,560
I've never thought about it like
that.

519
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,800
I've played, I've played guitar,
like I said for over, you know,

520
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,000
I'm going on 25 years and it
stays in my room.

521
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,520
Right now my concerts happen for
my 3 year old like me and him

522
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,920
jam out.
You know, but I'm sure he loves

523
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,400
it.
He's obsessed and and I'm sure

524
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,800
your wife or you know, when
you're playing, she doesn't not

525
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,040
like it.
You know what I mean?

526
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,600
She throws in a request no and
then.

527
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,960
Exactly like and and it's
interesting.

528
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,960
It's it's not it's music has
some special.

529
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,960
Power to it, you know people
love it.

530
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,320
Yeah.
So isn't that that's kind of

531
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,280
something that Arts Fishing Club
has grown into, right.

532
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,320
When you think about the
combination of the party thing

533
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,640
that you said, like this is a
party that they decided to throw

534
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:28,120
and the on stage presence.
I feel like I in kind of my

535
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,440
exploration, right when we
started talking, I think I came

536
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,560
across an article that kind of
described your live show.

537
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,840
I haven't got to see you live
yet, but it's it's like high

538
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,240
energy, captivating party.
Like that's what you're going

539
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,240
for, right?
Yeah, yeah, to some degree it's

540
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,160
it's.
Definitely high energy party in

541
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,320
the sense of like, you know,
rock'n'roll music.

542
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,360
Like communal like.
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah.

543
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,080
I mean, we're a very inviting.
We're definitely a very

544
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:03,800
inviting.
Band in the sense of like, yeah,

545
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:10,880
IA lot of people you know will
just say like they, I don't know

546
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,160
how else to put it, but they,
they felt very welcomed within

547
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,000
the within the space or
whatever.

548
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,680
Yeah, I don't.
Know, I think there's a lot of

549
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,720
joy.
And a lot of passion that we

550
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,080
have and that it, it comes
through.

551
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,400
And I think that that can be
infectious at times.

552
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,960
You know, it's, it's like
talking to anyone that is super

553
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,240
into what they do.
Like even if it's Legos or

554
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,280
something, you know, but they,
when somebody goes off and

555
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,880
they're just talking about it
and they're super into it.

556
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,320
You're like, Oh, I, I might not
care about Legos at all, but

557
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,760
it's fun listening to you talk
about it because you can just

558
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,120
see that person.
You see that person and who they

559
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,000
really are.
And like some, they're exposing

560
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:56,240
themselves and I think.
I think in our live shows we we

561
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,640
put our hearts on our sleeve.
We leave it out there for sure.

562
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,160
There's there's something
compelling and really calling in

563
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,440
about passion when when
someone's passionate about

564
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:14,840
something, there's something
that I think human nature calls

565
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,240
us toward or draws us toward.
But saying like it, you know,

566
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,440
there's another thing that I've
never thought about in that way,

567
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,560
but it's so true that when
someone's when you you like

568
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,280
everybody can I think think of
these scenarios where you were

569
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,760
talking to someone where it got
to something they were

570
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:36,320
passionate about and then that
person blossomed in front of

571
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,240
them or like showed themselves
totally.

572
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,560
That's really cool.
I've had man at just at the top

573
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,720
of my mind in the last month or
so.

574
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,560
I've had three of those that I
can think of immediately were

575
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,720
like person was kind of locked
up and like 1 was even very

576
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,400
aloof or like maybe having a bad
day, just like not wanting to

577
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,800
talk.
And then we got to something

578
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,520
that he was passionate about
totally and flipped the script

579
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,760
completely.
Totally, totally changes people

580
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,920
Yeah, think about it.
They can be very, you know, just

581
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,600
or bored, disinterested, you
know, whatever.

582
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,760
And there's, I mean, I've, we
have a million and one small

583
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,440
talk, conversations with people
traveling on the road and stuff.

584
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,080
And yeah, no, all of a sudden
you get someone talking about

585
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,600
something that they are into and
it'll totally changed the

586
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,040
conversation.
Love that.

587
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,080
Yeah.
So let's let's jump a little

588
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,360
bit.
Where?

589
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,440
Like how'd you come up with the
name?

590
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,400
What?
What is Arts Fishing Club?

591
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,000
Like you probably forecasted
this question, but I got to ask

592
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,480
like where?
Where did Arts Fishing Club

593
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,680
come?
From No, no worries.

594
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,040
Well, so both.
My grandfathers are named

595
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,640
Arthur.
So on my mom's side and my dad's

596
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,720
side, and I come from 2 very big
families.

597
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,160
So both of my parents are from
families of nine kids.

598
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,600
So I've got like 31 aunts and
uncles.

599
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:07,200
And so like just these big, big,
huge families that were I guess

600
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,080
just huge in my life, like in
terms of shaping who who I was

601
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:17,639
and who I owe a lot to.
And my first memories, both my

602
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:19,960
grandfathers are them teaching
me how to fish.

603
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:22,800
So that was just kind of like
the, you know, something that

604
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,719
existed.
But when I was starting to play

605
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,440
music for the first time, I was
playing with my cousin and we

606
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,719
were actually playing an open
mic in Eagle River, actually

607
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,159
Land O Lakes.
That was the first open mic I

608
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:42,280
ever did.
And we needed a name for it.

609
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,120
And he, my cousin, said, let's
call it Arts Fishing Club

610
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,920
because the year before that, we
had gone on a fishing trip with

611
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,040
my grandfather at the time.
And we made these shirts with

612
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,159
all the cousins that said Arts
Fishing Club.

613
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:03,480
And I obviously hated this name
for the band because, you know,

614
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,040
I thought it was kitschy.
No one's going to take it

615
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,680
seriously.
Like I actually want to do music

616
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,520
professionally.
But I went to bed that night and

617
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,760
as I was thinking about it, I
realized, OK, not only is it an

618
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,240
homage to that grandfather, it's
very wild and coincidental that

619
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,160
my other grandfather's also name
art.

620
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,120
And my first memory with him is
also him teaching me how to

621
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,440
fish.
And so that was cool, but still

622
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,720
kind of like Hallmarky and then
the more.

623
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:38,640
That I sat with it too.
It was like, well, you know.

624
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:45,080
Music is our art and
songwriting, and being a

625
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,240
professional musician is exactly
like fishing like.

626
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:56,480
You if you go out.
Fishing and the whole goal is,

627
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,760
oh, I got to catch a big fish
today like.

628
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,680
You're going to be.
Pretty miserable because it

629
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,800
almost never happens that way.
But if you go out with like the,

630
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,640
oh, I've got an opportunity,
like we're very intentionally

631
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,600
going to go try and catch a big
fish and every single cast

632
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,280
you're like, this is it, you
know, and then you come up empty

633
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,000
handed.
This is it empty handed?

634
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,280
This is it empty handed you, you
keep doing that.

635
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,600
And, and you it's, it's the
reframing of just understanding

636
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,520
that like, no, it's actually
more about just being in the

637
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,560
boat, going on an adventure with
people that you love, maybe

638
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:41,480
drinking some beers and but
still actively working towards

639
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,720
something and having this hope.
Each cast is hope.

640
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:46,880
And each song that you write is
like, you know, it's hope.

641
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,360
It's you might land a big fish,
you might not, you might write a

642
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,080
hit, but it's, it's about the
action.

643
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:58,040
So yeah, it's kind of a, it's a
very convoluted name or

644
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:03,840
description, but overall, it
just felt like the name happened

645
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:10,440
more than then I was intending.
And it just felt like there were

646
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,800
so many different layers of
meaning that suddenly blossomed

647
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,800
after my cousin suggested it,
that I I loved it.

648
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,080
And I just thought it was
unique.

649
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,920
It's fun.
It's interesting.

650
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,080
You know, it's not.
People definitely ask, what is

651
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,480
that?
Yeah.

652
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,760
Yeah.
Yeah, well, you picked up the

653
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,360
pen, man and it wrote.
Yeah, that's the, you know,

654
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,920
there's something.
There's a lot to that.

655
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,760
That's that's.
It is wild though that both

656
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,440
grandfathers were named Arthur
and that your first memory of

657
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,000
both of them is fishing 100%.
Yeah, yeah.

658
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,080
Let's talk about that a little
bit.

659
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,000
So being a musician, you're on
the road all the time.

660
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,800
You live in Nashville.
Now we're have we got the

661
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,200
privilege of doing this in a
beautiful place in northern

662
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,520
Wisconsin right now.
I have to imagine if I put

663
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,240
myself in your shoes, there's
times along that journey across

664
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,680
the country, giving another
piece of yourself to another

665
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,640
crowd in another town that you
transport yourself in your mind

666
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,200
back to here.
Yeah.

667
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,920
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I love this
place.

668
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,560
I love northern Wisconsin.
I mean, there is not.

669
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,720
There's not many.
Places.

670
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,360
In the country that are as
beautiful and peaceful as the

671
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,320
lakes up here like I yeah I've I
was so.

672
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,920
Blown away.
By how much I took Wisconsin

673
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,000
Lake, the the the number of
lakes in Wisconsin for granted.

674
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,160
When I moved to Tennessee, I
just assumed.

675
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,520
I just thought that was life.
I thought there was lakes

676
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,760
everywhere, you know what I
mean?

677
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,400
And got to Tennessee and there's
not.

678
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,040
And then the lakes that there
are are like man made and gross.

679
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,120
You know what I mean?
Like not not what?

680
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,480
We're used to we're.
Man, and northern Wisconsin, I

681
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,360
mean, just growing up, you could
drive anywhere in direction for

682
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,560
10 or 15 minutes and you're
going to start to run into some

683
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,240
sort of lake.
And it has an effect on the

684
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,640
people.
I I think it has a massive,

685
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,400
massive effect on people.
I feel the same way about trees

686
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,840
man.
I like whatever.

687
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,800
Anytime I go somewhere where
there aren't any trees or like

688
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,000
it's shrubby, small like trees,
I feel really weird.

689
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,160
I feel like it's not where I
belong, you know?

690
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,520
It's a strange feeling, but.
No, I get it.

691
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,560
I get it.
Yeah, yeah, I, I assume that has

692
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,760
to happen.
Does the What's the grind of the

693
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:48,360
road like for a musician?
It's it's so it's, it's very

694
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:56,320
intense in the sense of you kind
of fall into you fall into like

695
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,680
just this.
You're operating like you're,

696
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,320
you're, which is nice in some
senses because there's

697
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,360
everything is very immediate.
You're you're really living in

698
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,960
the moment because that's all
you have is the moment like

699
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,800
everyday, all right, Like when
you play a show and now we have

700
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,960
to be there tomorrow.
You're driving there like you're

701
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,560
setting up.
For today, like every single

702
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,680
step of the way, OK, Like the
day's over and now you're going

703
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,040
to the hotel or wherever you're
crashing and there's not a whole

704
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,640
lot of you don't have any room
to think ahead or behind

705
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,640
altogether that much.
You're kind of just operating.

706
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,640
Everything's like prescribed,
you're saying and.

707
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:42,040
Yeah, you're just really
executing today like you're just

708
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,080
executing today.
I think that's the only way to

709
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:45,320
kind of describe it.
There's.

710
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,800
Some comfort in that at times.
Well, So what happens is when

711
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,600
you get up, when we get off the
road, I, if we've been out for

712
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,720
two or three, anything longer
than three weeks, I'll, I'll go

713
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:59,760
through like a week long
depression and not like a sad

714
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,240
depression.
I'm not sad, but it's you're in

715
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:04,440
kind of like this fight or
flight mode and you're in kind

716
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,560
of fight mode the entire time
where you're on and you don't

717
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,080
have time for like deeper rest
because you just have to keep

718
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:14,560
executing.
Where?

719
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,440
I'll come off the road and my
body will just do like this

720
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,400
total shift where, you know,
just mundane things like texting

721
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:28,960
people back or whatever, just
like it feels like this mountain

722
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,680
to climb, which is, which is
depression, you know what I

723
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,480
mean?
Like the, the more clinical

724
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,480
sense of it.
And I think it does.

725
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,200
It's just a reaction to the, the
fact that you're on like this

726
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:50,120
just incredible scale of just
next task, next task, next task

727
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,960
and 0 alone time.
I mean, you're in a van with

728
00:41:54,600 --> 00:42:00,640
four to six people, depending on
the tour and sharing rooms the

729
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,760
entire time.
So there will be, you know, a

730
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,320
month worth of time where I've
not been alone for more than an

731
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,000
hour, and that's where you
crash.

732
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,440
Yeah, man.
Yeah.

733
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,280
Yeah, that sounds wild, doesn't
that, man, that makes something

734
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,760
like that, that makes Willie
Nelson's life to me seem

735
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,680
unbelievable.
Oh, yeah.

736
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:23,400
You know, And maybe it's maybe
there's a point out there like

737
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,320
you, you that it's just it, it's
keeping that wolf away.

738
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,720
It's keeping that like maybe
that's what keeps him going.

739
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:33,920
Maybe it's just that he knows at
the end, like a lot of things in

740
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,760
life, if you if there's
something at the end like that,

741
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,560
the longer you put it off and
put it away, the bigger the

742
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,200
crash is going to be.
Totally.

743
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,120
Maybe it's to the point where
you get 40 years in and that's

744
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,560
it.
Maybe it's just like there's no

745
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,920
other way I'm going to go out
this way doing it.

746
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,080
It's wild to think about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

747
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,920
And and you know, depression
sounds like a negative word.

748
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,680
It's not it's not actually like
a, it's not a negative thing.

749
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,160
It's just, it's the body
reacting and, and like taking a

750
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:11,400
deeper, it's like stored rest.
Like it's because you know, if

751
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,800
you're up for 12 hours, you got
to sleep for 12 hours.

752
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,920
And it's like when you're on
tour, it's like you're up for

753
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:23,000
three weeks.
So your normal recharge time on

754
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,400
a, on any given day would be
just like the one day to

755
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,440
recharge if you had a
stimulating weekend or

756
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,800
something.
But it's like, Oh, no, no, now

757
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,480
you had a stimulating like
month.

758
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,280
You need a full week just to
like rot in your room just to

759
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,840
recover.
Like, yeah.

760
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,440
So it's, it's not, it's the yin
and the Yang.

761
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,560
It's not like a negative thing.
It's it's just the, but it's

762
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,680
been tremendously interesting to
me because I've experienced it

763
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,680
with my body so much how it's
like, oh, this is like, I'm not

764
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,080
sad.
I'm not like I feel I mean

765
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,200
interested in working and my
body is just like Nope.

766
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,760
Not today.
You need like this deeper level

767
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,600
of rest because you just had so
much stimulation for so long And

768
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,800
that that's the part for me
that's been so interesting, is

769
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,560
just the physicalness of it.
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing how

770
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,760
that stuff comes out.
I think about that a lot.

771
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:25,120
Just health in general about how
that ends up happening where you

772
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,400
know, if you're going through a
period where you are doing

773
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,200
anything stressful or, or maybe
something in life isn't going

774
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,640
well or you have a lot of work
to do that you want to get off

775
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,600
your plate or whatever it is.
It's amazing how much that

776
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,240
mental stuff comes out
physically, especially as I age,

777
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:48,960
man, especially as I age and get
older.

778
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:56,800
Like it's, it's this, it's this
wave you have to navigate really

779
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,760
carefully because like that most
of the time that stuff is very,

780
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,680
it's, we care about it for a
reason, right?

781
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,280
Like it's valid.
There's a, there's something to

782
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,680
that about why it's holding this
pressure on us.

783
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,320
But at the same time, you
actually kind of going back to

784
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,400
how we react to something like
negativity on social media, how

785
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,040
we process it, use it, and then
adapt to it.

786
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,360
And that's, I mean, that's
probably a theme of being a

787
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,080
musician in a lot of ways is
adaptation, right?

788
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,760
And being able comfort and
analyzing why you're feeling a

789
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,840
certain way, what needs to
happen, whatever it is, and then

790
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,880
recognizing what you need to do
to move out of it or forward

791
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,240
right totally.
Yeah, yeah.

792
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,280
Super interesting, man.
Like it's funny, my my wife

793
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,560
yearns for that.
She need, my wife needs that

794
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,680
downtime like her couch potato
days.

795
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,480
So like a lot of people, I think
my wife's a stay at home mom and

796
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,240
God bless that because like
that's a very tough job totally

797
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,760
to do.
And when she wants a mom day,

798
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,880
like I know it's like, all
right, Riv, we're we're going,

799
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,320
we're going out and we're not
going to be in the house today.

800
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,280
And mom was going to have a
bunch of snacks and she's.

801
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,720
Going to watch TV?
And then it's amazing how that

802
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:18,320
person is different the next
day.

803
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,320
Like it's kind of like plugging
yourself in totally.

804
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,000
Yeah.
So like do you do you have the

805
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,120
opportunity to plan your
schedule like that or does it

806
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,400
have to come naturally?
How does that even end up

807
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,080
working out?
Like say hypothetical scenario,

808
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,440
say you got you can you can plug
six months in a shows where

809
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,720
you're cutting 5-6 shows a week
and you're just burning the

810
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:42,360
candle at both ends, getting it
done.

811
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,160
Is that something where you say,
well, make hey, well the sun

812
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,520
shines, let's do it.
Or can you plan in rest

813
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,440
intentionally?
Well.

814
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,520
We've been more making hay where
the sun shines in the sense of

815
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,520
when we've been getting
opportunities.

816
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,200
I mean, we're still, we're a
small.

817
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,480
Band that's grinding and like
just trying to like get our name

818
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:12,240
out there.
So we're pretty much taken most

819
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:13,800
of the opportunities that are
coming our way.

820
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,520
I think this year we'll by the
end of the year, we'll have

821
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:21,600
played over 100 and some shows,
which you know that's one every

822
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,280
three days.
And if you think of some

823
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:29,960
holidays and you know, some
holidays and a little bit of

824
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,480
time off.
It's all it's.

825
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,360
Travel to and from.
Yeah, travel to and from like

826
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,520
we're.
Playing a lot this year.

827
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,840
Especially for us where?
We don't really have much of A

828
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:41,240
team.
We're pretty, pretty

829
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:42,680
independent.
We're building our team right

830
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:48,960
now, but it's usually me trying
to market the shows and me, you

831
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,840
know, like it's it's a it's a
heavy heavyweight and and

832
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,800
there's also, you know, if
you're a big famous band and you

833
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,680
have this audience that is just
going to show up, you know, if

834
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,080
you book a show like we're not
that yet We.

835
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,200
Need to knock on the doors and
let.

836
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,880
All these town, you know these.
It's like throwing a birthday.

837
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,560
Party in a city that you've
never been to in your entire

838
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,160
life and you'd need to hope to
get 200 people out.

839
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,040
And it's, it's hard, you know?
What do you do?

840
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,160
What are some of the things you
do?

841
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,720
So I'm marketing is close to me.
I'm a marketer.

842
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:25,440
What what do you do in that
scenario?

843
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,080
Like what do you outside of like
I see your stuff on social

844
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,000
media, but say you got a show in
Santa Fe and you don't know a

845
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,840
person there and you're 2 weeks
out of the show and venue calls

846
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,240
and says we're not selling
tickets, Christopher.

847
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:40,760
Yeah, we've been getting those.
Calls.

848
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,560
They're super fun.
So what do you do, man?

849
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,840
I mean you reach.
Out to the venue, you ask them

850
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,240
if there's anything more you can
do.

851
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,160
Sometimes there's ideas there.
We run ads.

852
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:57,800
So, you know, just like, you
know, just traditional ads.

853
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,440
Yeah, like a paid Instagram.
Ad exactly letting people know

854
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,240
that's been very strong for us
and then posting on social

855
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,560
media, reaching out to.
There's been other ways of just

856
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,280
like.
Reaching out to media outlets or

857
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,600
finding people in the town and
just Dming them and inviting

858
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,520
people out.
Like just straight up, hey, come

859
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,040
on, we're playing, come, come
out like I do.

860
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:29,000
Hours and hours and hours.
I probably sent in the past five

861
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,880
years, I've probably sent 50,000
messages inviting people out to

862
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,080
shows.
Damn.

863
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:45,000
Which is exhausting, but is also
really cool too because, you

864
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,680
know, some people won't respond,
but some people will.

865
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,120
And then we'll get in these
conversations and just chat.

866
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,720
And then I'll meet them at the
venue and they're like, oh hey,

867
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,360
and we know each other a little
bit because we've been chatting.

868
00:49:57,720 --> 00:50:01,160
So that's actually been
something that has been just

869
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:07,200
kind of a fun accidental thing
for me that I think speaks to

870
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,520
Arts Fishing Club as kind of an
entity and just ethos and

871
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,920
probably a very Wisconsin thing
like.

872
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,680
Hey, what's up?
Come on.

873
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,160
Yeah.
Back to the Golden Retriever.

874
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:20,160
Yeah.
Exactly.

875
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:25,600
How do you balance that man?
Because that can being kind of

876
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:30,280
like the person you described,
that can probably even take a

877
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,560
toll of like, like if I have
like 10 unread texts, like I'm

878
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,320
like, I got to get back to these
people like that they matter to

879
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,000
me.
But like at that scale, that

880
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,600
sounds impossible to me.
Well, so I used to be that way

881
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,000
for sure, where like I, I.
Would never not be able to

882
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,400
respond or like and now I mean I
have.

883
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,440
I think on my phone 100 and. 56
unread messages.

884
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,240
You just have to let it go.
Yeah, like my emails like 10,000

885
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:02,800
like it's, it's, it's gone to
like this place of oh, now the

886
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,200
numbers don't even matter
because they like don't even

887
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:08,080
exist.
And I don't, I don't mean that

888
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,040
because I'm getting hit up by so
many people.

889
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,040
It's definitely not that.
It's more just like.

890
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:20,120
Throughout the I mean because.
I'm active a little bit on

891
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,360
e-mail e-mail is my worst one,
but via text and then DMS it

892
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:29,200
like there's also like 3 or 4
different just messaging

893
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:36,200
platforms now that you have to
somehow manage and you know, and

894
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,600
then put TikTok in there like
it, it's, it's a lot.

895
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,800
It's a lot and at all you just
try your best.

896
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,680
Smuddle your way through.
It and try yeah, yeah, you try

897
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,480
your best.
Yeah, there has to be a tipping

898
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:52,760
point.
It's part of life that's back to

899
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,160
that, I guess the navigating the
things that are thrown at you.

900
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:57,760
So something been in my mind all
day.

901
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,400
I'm complete completely going to
change direction.

902
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,640
Is that shirt like vintage?
Is it from the year on it?

903
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,160
It it's not it's not.
I don't think so.

904
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,400
At least it's cool.
I got it recently.

905
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:08,600
I.
Was wondering if there's a story

906
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,760
behind it.
No, it was like a goodwill find

907
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,000
in like a random city across the
country or something.

908
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,280
No no, it's perfect for the
vacation.

909
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,240
The up north vacation vibe.
Yeah, I'm.

910
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,640
Glad you like it.
Yeah, man.

911
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,480
So how?
Like how long has Arts Fishing

912
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,800
Club been going?
Like when did you start and how

913
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:29,920
many years in are you right now?
Yeah.

914
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,680
I mean, I recorded an EP under
the name Arts Fishing Club in

915
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:41,320
2015.
So 10 years ago that was, you

916
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:47,760
know, that was me.
I had written 4 songs and I went

917
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,760
to a studio in Nashville.
I played the songs for the

918
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:57,680
studio musicians and then they
listened once or twice, cut

919
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:02,520
their instruments and then two
days later we had an EP.

920
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,120
So it's funny, that was the
first ever recording I'd ever

921
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:13,320
done of anything ever, you know.
So I guess you know, that is the

922
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,400
beginning of it.
But it I would say it feels like

923
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,520
the band is more like three or
four years old.

924
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:26,760
Like I would give it maybe 5
where it's like this group of

925
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:33,600
guys now 'cause I'd always
started this with the intention

926
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,040
of being a band band, not just
Christopher Kessnick's solo

927
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,400
project.
But I got into music late, you

928
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,760
know, I, I didn't start.
Most people played in middle

929
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,360
school and high school and had
high school bands and, and maybe

930
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,080
like a college age band or
whatever.

931
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,200
And I didn't start until I was
out of college.

932
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,920
That's when I started music.
And I just had the sense of,

933
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:04,920
well, I'm going to be working
for the next 5050 years and I

934
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,920
think I can probably figure this
out with the next 10, you know,

935
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:13,760
So it's, it's really funny with
music, like everyone's, there's

936
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,560
this perception that you have to
have totally done it by the time

937
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,480
that you're in your 20s.
But it's like that doesn't

938
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,920
really exist in the corporate
world where it's like, if you're

939
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:35,520
not the CEO by 30, like, oh,
what you've, you've got no

940
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,040
chances.
Well, you got 40 more years, you

941
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,000
know, of working like, I don't
know.

942
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,320
So, and with that being said,
there are different constraints

943
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,560
and, you know, the travel and
the lifestyle is pretty crazy.

944
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:52,280
So I do, I do get some of it,
but I always just thought that

945
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,840
was an interesting the the
amount of pressure that people

946
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:02,320
had and just maybe a lack.
I, I think I've experienced my

947
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,320
interpretation of time is just
different than most people's

948
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,680
natural interpretation where I
just see how much time I do

949
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:15,840
have, where everyone seemed to
focus on like running out of

950
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,400
time.
I was like, we got a lot of time

951
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,880
here, like, and, and I, I work
hard, I like, I like to do it.

952
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,640
So I just know that I'm going to
get better year over year over

953
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,880
year and at some point here it's
going to start to work.

954
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,680
Yeah, is my thought, my hope.
But.

955
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,680
Well, for me it's working
already, man.

956
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,120
I I think you're well on your
way.

957
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,520
You bring up something there
that brings up another song

958
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:43,200
lyric I want to talk about,
though I can't remember which

959
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:44,200
song it's in again.
Sure.

960
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:49,880
But there you have one you you
rattle off about four different

961
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,160
maybes, like maybe this, maybe
that.

962
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:57,360
And one is maybe that's why I
don't play my songs or something

963
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:58,600
like that.
Oh yeah.

964
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,240
Is that, was that introspective
or is that written just to, you

965
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:04,080
know, songwriting happens a lot
of different ways.

966
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,520
It's not always about you, you
know, But is that is that

967
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,160
relevant to you?
Was there a time that you had

968
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:14,600
this catalog of music that you
were like, I don't know if I can

969
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,360
share it, I don't know if I can
expose it or wear my heart on my

970
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:21,040
sleeve?
Yeah, yeah, that song's called

971
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,480
Doug's Song.
Doug's song.

972
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,160
Yeah, lower case, which is
interesting.

973
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,560
It catches my eye, yeah.
It's called Doug's Song, and

974
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,520
yeah, I was in an introspective,
introspective moment there.

975
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,600
And maybe, maybe it's the reason
I'm too afraid to share my, to

976
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,920
share my songs, to play my
songs, to record my songs.

977
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:40,880
Maybe it's the reason I'm too
afraid to.

978
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,320
Record my songs is the line that
you're referring to.

979
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:51,640
And yeah, I think basically it's
just that that hesitation that

980
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:59,440
especially with music, I mean,
songs are your diary entries.

981
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:06,480
They're your the IT, they're so
complex because they're both

982
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:12,120
these things that you like, care
and love about on like a deeply

983
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:18,720
personal and emotional way.
But then also flip side, it's

984
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,840
your career now.
And so it's this commercial

985
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:26,920
product thing too that you need
to do well.

986
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,440
For.
You to eat and like to have.

987
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:35,800
So it's the, the complexity of
putting out music, especially in

988
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,920
the beginning, like when you
haven't done it yet, because

989
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,680
there are these diary entries
there, these things that like,

990
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,840
are deeply, deeply personal and
exposing yourself that way.

991
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:53,320
And, and then not getting
feedback from people that they

992
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,720
are into it or maybe feedback
that they don't like it is just

993
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,320
it, it's incredibly emotionally
taxing and you need to like,

994
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,640
figure that out.
Over time, you start to realize

995
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:10,400
like, Oh, you know, it, it
becomes less and less and less a

996
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:18,120
big deal And, and you, and
you're able to just see the, the

997
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,520
benefits, you know, the positive
side side of, of sharing the

998
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,720
music.
But early on, there's so much

999
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:31,720
fear tied into this hope of, oh,
when I put out this song, I

1000
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:36,080
really wanted to do well because
it's also tied to your career

1001
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,640
and like your stability as a
adult.

1002
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,880
Does that take any of the
enjoyment out of it or has it

1003
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:48,120
for you?
Yeah, it especially early, I

1004
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,680
think the more and more that.
You do it, and the more that you

1005
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,720
put out the like, the less it
affects.

1006
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,880
You OK And that's what's so cool
about like a Bob Dylan is.

1007
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,240
And you start to and you start
to get, oh, like this, this dude

1008
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,960
just quickly learned like, like
he doesn't really give a shit

1009
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,560
about his songs.
You know what I mean?

1010
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,720
Like, and and he does when he's
writing it, he does he cares a

1011
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:14,520
lot.
Clearly, you know, you can't

1012
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,920
make art in the way that he does
if he doesn't actually care.

1013
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:23,600
But he just would make stuff and
put it out and like, and then he

1014
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,840
doesn't care.
There's lots of interviews, you

1015
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,680
know, of people talking, you
know, taking some of his songs.

1016
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,240
You know, Wagon Wheel was he had
started that and he's like, oh,

1017
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:34,920
I don't care.
I don't care at all that

1018
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:36,320
somebody else took that and
finished it.

1019
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,760
I I was dumb.
You know it doesn't matter it.

1020
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,880
There's a fascinating that same
exact story with is Bull with

1021
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,840
Morgan Wall and covering cover
me up.

1022
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,680
Yeah, same thing.
He he he echoed the same thing

1023
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:52,600
because they're obviously 2 very
different humans and very, very

1024
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:58,520
different humans.
And he said that he he like how

1025
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,960
he thought about it was that
once the song is out.

1026
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,600
In the world he's created, what
he was going to create and

1027
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,880
wherever that thing goes is
completely out of his control.

1028
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,760
I've never thought about Dylan
like that.

1029
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,840
But it's so.
True, like you listen to Dylan's

1030
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:20,040
full catalog and which is
massive and some songs are like

1031
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,160
man, well, this is kind of a dud
for a for a legend like you, but

1032
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,120
at the same time I it's cool to
think about.

1033
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,440
Well, and it it is the cool.
It's the thing that's so

1034
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,160
liberating about him, is it?
You know, his greatest hits is

1035
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:39,400
40 songs, you know, but you But
guess what, there's 900 that

1036
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,800
suck You you you know, and like
he just focused on the writing

1037
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,200
and the creating and he didn't
get tied up with all the other

1038
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:51,320
where early in early in your
career and even right now, like

1039
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,800
for us, like.
It's it's easy to get to put.

1040
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,280
Weight on a song or an album
like oh, we hope it does well.

1041
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,960
Oh, and it's like trying to
continuously remember, like, oh

1042
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,600
wait, no, no, just make shit,
put it out and move on.

1043
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,960
Make shit, put it out, move on.
If if people like it, they like

1044
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:11,600
it.
If they don't, they don't like.

1045
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,880
Kind of back to the beginning,
Make sure you're picking up the

1046
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,840
pen and make sure stuff is
coming, coming through.

1047
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:19,480
Yeah, that's fascinating.
And it.

1048
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,960
And it's certainly true.
Like one of my favorite artists

1049
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,480
of all time is Tom Petty, and
he's got albums that I can't

1050
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:25,320
listen to.
Yeah.

1051
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:26,560
That are junk.
Totally.

1052
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:32,160
But he's like, but you know, the
the diamonds outshine everything

1053
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,640
else.
There's a reason, you know,

1054
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,800
talking about playing music with
rib one one of his favorite ones

1055
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,320
right now in the past couple
weeks, Like he always wants to

1056
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,320
hear tangled up in Blue.
So he wants me to play tangled

1057
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:43,120
up in blue.
Nice.

1058
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,440
I think that's one of the
greatest songs of all time.

1059
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:46,600
Oh, yeah.
It's unbelievable.

1060
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:52,120
But then yeah.
And man, I've never, I've never

1061
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,640
thought about that from an
artist perspective about like,

1062
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,080
yeah, there's definitely going
to be ones that that you you

1063
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,560
don't know aren't good when you
put them out there.

1064
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,360
Because like, that's a great
question actually.

1065
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:11,360
How in the writing process, how
like are you attached to this

1066
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,400
idea?
And how do you come to that

1067
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,280
point where you like, you've
been working on it for so long

1068
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,640
that if you've kept going, it's
a thing in your brain?

1069
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:27,160
Like you think this has some
legs somewhere, but then you

1070
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,560
can't see past your own nose at
times.

1071
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,880
And then you let it go out into
the into the earth without

1072
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,160
knowing.
I guess I don't even know what

1073
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:37,800
my question is, but you get
where I'm getting at.

1074
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,720
Like you don't know that it's
good or bad, but you're so deep

1075
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,320
in the weeds on it that you're
like, this is a thing now.

1076
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,600
Totally.
I I guess that isn't a question.

1077
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:48,240
So it's a terrible interview
thing, but.

1078
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,880
Yeah, no, I I think you're just
describing the the fact that

1079
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:55,320
like, do you know if a song is
good or not?

1080
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:01,840
Like as as you're creating it
generally, not really.

1081
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,120
Every now and again you can kind
of tell, OK, this one like hits

1082
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,920
a little different.
But even still, it's usually the

1083
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,920
songs that I hate that people
are are like that I don't really

1084
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,320
like as much that everybody else
likes more.

1085
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,360
And then the songs that you
really love that you feel like

1086
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,400
you did like the coolest, best
stuff that nobody is into at

1087
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,680
all.
Like that's kind of always how

1088
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:26,880
it goes.
There's an there's an episode of

1089
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,840
this podcast dude a few ago from
when we're recording this.

1090
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,160
That's one of the coolest
conversations that I had.

1091
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,520
The guy is super cool, but he's
got like no social media or

1092
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,240
anything.
He's got like 50 views.

1093
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,480
Exactly.
The one where you're like that.

1094
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,160
Was the thing that was the one.
This is why I'm doing.

1095
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:48,800
This, this is it 0 return, you
know on that one, but then the

1096
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,280
one that you were like, you
know.

1097
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,640
Totally phoned in was an
accident or whatever like and

1098
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,120
you don't even really like it
like that's the one that pops

1099
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:03,600
yeah that's that's kind of
always how it seems to go but.

1100
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,280
That's hilarious man.
Well, I I definitely don't want

1101
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,680
to take up your whole vacation,
but I appreciate you sitting

1102
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:11,600
down and chatting for a bit.
Of course.

1103
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,760
Thank you so much.
It's awesome get to know you.

1104
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:18,280
I hope the I hope the meteoric
rise happens for you.

1105
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,480
Certainly gained 1 today.
Hey, all right, that's all that

1106
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,360
matters.
That's all that matters now I

1107
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,800
appreciate.
It and I think you know you you

1108
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,880
you talk about where you're at
right now kind of through that

1109
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,360
lens of and that's been a theme
today.

1110
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,120
You.
It's cool that you think about

1111
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:39,120
the glass half full long ways to
go, but from what I see there

1112
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:43,240
are 10 musicians for everyone
that are in your space that are

1113
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,880
hoping to get to where you are
right now. 100% no.

1114
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:50,800
And, and, and I do feel that way
and, and I feel super grateful.

1115
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,560
I mean, we're, we're getting to
tour the country and, and I've

1116
01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:00,400
said this before, you know, two
years ago we toured the whole

1117
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:05,720
country and it's like, OK, I, I,
I had the feeling like, OK, if I

1118
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:09,320
died today, you know, this was
two years ago like that.

1119
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,600
I accomplished my dream, you
know, one of them, right?

1120
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:16,280
Like I have multiple, but that
was the core level dream.

1121
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,760
I think of me in high school
being in a band that toured,

1122
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:25,680
that hopping in our van with our
trailer and touring and playing

1123
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,320
shows all the way across the
country that people came to.

1124
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:33,800
Like that is it at the core?
That was the dream at the core.

1125
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:39,720
And like whether it's to 10,000
people or to 200 people or, you

1126
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:46,280
know, kind of these other like
numbery factors, like you kind

1127
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,440
of can't control all that.
Like some of it you can a little

1128
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:54,200
bit, but it also doesn't matter
in some senses.

1129
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,720
I had this awareness that like
we are doing the thing that we

1130
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,600
set out to do.
So that's pretty cool.

1131
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,360
And I, and I do feel, I do feel
extremely grateful for that.

1132
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,760
Like and I and I do if I, if I,
if my, you know, knock on wood,

1133
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:15,360
if I lost both my arms and legs
tomorrow and couldn't tour and

1134
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:20,200
and play music.
Like I fully feel like I have

1135
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,760
accomplished the the dream to
some degree.

1136
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,400
And now I have more dreams that
are stacking on top of it, which

1137
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,960
is even more fun.
Super cool.

1138
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:32,560
That's a that's a great feather
in the cap.

1139
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:38,800
What's What is the next dream?
The next dream, I would say that

1140
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,440
is like it.
It's our goal to headline Red

1141
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,640
Rocks at one point, so.
We we feel.

1142
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,120
Very confident that we're going
to do that and it's but it also

1143
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:51,920
it's going to be it's not easy
either.

1144
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,120
Like that's a very it's both an
extremely ambitious goal but

1145
01:06:56,120 --> 01:07:01,160
also a very realistic goal that
we fully plan on doing so it's

1146
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,920
it's really fun to like.
And for years, you know, I was

1147
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,560
too scared to to verbalize stuff
like that to.

1148
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:12,560
You have to yeah, yeah.
Because if if you don't, you're

1149
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:14,480
not giving yourself permission
to go for it.

1150
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:19,720
And once you start to verbalize
it, it's shocking how your brain

1151
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,000
starts to kick into OK, like now
we just got to solve the

1152
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:23,960
problem.
We got to get there.

1153
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,840
So yeah.
I believe wholeheartedly in

1154
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,520
manifestation.
Man, this podcast is going to

1155
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:36,200
pay for my Northwoods getaway.
Nice, I love that.

1156
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:39,120
That's been I was I was on a
written manifestation journal

1157
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,760
for a while.
I wish I meditated was more

1158
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:43,560
strict about my meditation
practice.

1159
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,840
But you have to, man.
You have to let that because the

1160
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,840
same universe that writes that
pen totally is the same universe

1161
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:56,720
that puts you in front of a
person that changes your life,

1162
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:00,000
man, totally sign that wall
under red rocks and you're going

1163
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:00,640
to do it.
Yeah.

1164
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,600
No, I appreciate it.
Well, thanks so much.

1165
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,880
Thank you, Christopher Sweet.
Yeah, it's good, good chatting.