Carey Renee Sharpe - Bloodlove, Leaving Healthcare, Acton Academy, and Violin - Ep. #49

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What's up friends, Welcome back
to Rooted Wisconsin.

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Appreciate you for clicking
another episode.

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Appreciate you for being you
back with another one today and

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not on a normal episode drop
day.

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That's for good reason.
We're going to talk about that

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in a minute.
But first, a bit about our

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guest, Carrie Sharp.
Fascinating career path is what

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drew me in from pediatric nurse
practitioner to business owner

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of the Howard and Oshkosh, to
writer and star of Blood Love a

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Vampire Rock Popra.
How can that not call you in,

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right?
We talked about each step of

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that journey, starting with
leaving healthcare because of a

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story that we've heard kind of
come out the last five to 10

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years about burnout and feeling
heavy with that line of work.

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Rightfully so, right?
So we talked about that.

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We talked about her path to
entrepreneurship and then of

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course, back to the creative
with blood, love, and kind of

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rekindling A childhood thing
that she did with playing the

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violin.
She's been playing the violin

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for a long time.
Music has always been central to

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what she does and kind of
bringing that back front and

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center in life.
So we talked about all that and

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the Acton Academy.
She also brought a franchise of

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the Acton Academy to Oshkosh,
which is kind of a different way

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to look at K12 education.
Education is a particular area

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of interest of mine.
So that was fun to talk about as

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well.
We talked about those things and

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a whole lot more.
Hope you enjoy it.

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Now, why we're dropping an
episode, not on an episode drop

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day is because we've got a new
partner with the, with the

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podcast coming on in August,
Carouser, you might have seen a

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little bit of that if you're
following us on Instagram or our

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socials pumped up to have their
cans on the table.

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But when I recorded Carrie's
episode, we didn't have the

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agreement in place yet.
So getting this one out so we

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can start in August with our new
partnership with Carouser, of

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course, even for this one and
all of them.

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Big shout out to Riverside
Pizzeria, our friends there with

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Ryan and the crew doing an
awesome job.

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Big things to come with
Carouser.

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They'll be on the table starting
with our first episode drop of

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August.
Before we get there though,

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enjoy this one.
Carrie Sharp.

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So have the ways we try to lift
our neighbors.

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Talking about it makes me not
want to eat breakfast anymore.

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Yeah.
It's like, man, I, I don't know,

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we tried, I tried keto recently.
That was kind of difficult.

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Like carnivore is the the thing
right now.

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But I can't couldn't go full
carnivore because I like

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vegetables.
But we lasted like a month and I

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was.
Like, oh, that's pretty good.

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It was all right, yeah, but
yeah, it's tough with a

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three-year old.
Do you have kids?

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You've.
Got a six year old and a nine

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year old OK, but they don't eat
anything.

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All they're picky.
Eaters, they're super picky,

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especially my son, my younger,
he doesn't eat anything.

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So I don't think we could put
him on a special diet.

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He just, yeah.
What?

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What are his go TOS milk?
Milk, white rice, plain noodles,

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no butter.
Very very limited diet.

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OK steak and salmon.
That's pretty much it.

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OK, so protein avenues any?
Yeah, kid doesn't eat anything.

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OK.
And then the other one.

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She's better, she'll eat a
little more normal, but OK.

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Yeah, yeah.
Our dude eats pretty well.

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We've since the beginning, like
we've leveraged the things he

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likes to eat, things that he
didn't want to try.

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And I think maybe that was
helpful 'cause he, he does

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pretty well loves, he loves
salmon and steak too, but he'll

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eat things that you wouldn't
expect a three-year old to eat.

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Like he likes random vegetables,
like he loves broccoli, Like

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loves no matter how we cook it.
Like it can just be steamed with

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no seasoning and he'll just
pound it like that's.

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Yeah, actually, right.
I'll eat that too.

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But there's a few random things
he'll eat, but it's just kind of

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limited.
It's frustrating, like trying to

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cook for kids that don't want to
eat anything all the time so.

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Oh goodness, are you the cook in
the household?

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Not so much anymore.
A little bit, but I mean, it's

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pretty easy to cook for the kids
too, 'cause they don't eat much.

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So it's just like boiling
noodles, Yeah.

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Yeah, I cook in our house.
That's like coming up with what

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to eat Is is just like this
task, constant task.

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And then when we threw a kid
into the mix.

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Yeah, it got way more difficult
'cause it was just my wife and I

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like I got a good feel of what
she eats.

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We've been married for like 8
years now together for like 11.

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So like, I know what she digs.
Then it was pretty easy.

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But then when you get a, a child
that like evolves seemingly

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every week and like last week it
was like, I love this.

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This week it's not.
Oh man.

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It's annoying, yeah.
Super.

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It never ends.
I'm not a big eat.

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I'm just like not a big food
person in general.

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I'm definitely a like, I eat to
live, you know, So I just don't

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care.
Yeah, like sustenance.

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And that's what it's for, yeah.
Yeah, just don't really want to

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put time or effort into it.
Get that?

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Well, there's plenty of other
places that it seems like your

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time and effort are going yes.
So first, let's start with blood

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love a little bit.
I, you know, I can't watch in

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any way, so I don't know what
the what, what it is, but from

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you what what is blood love to
you.

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Well, it's an all original
musical that we've been working

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on now since 2020.
So it's already 5 years in the

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making and that is very typical
for the musical like development

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process.
It takes quite a few years, but

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it's a it's a vampire musical
really.

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It is Essence, but it's very
modern.

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The music is pop and rock
driven, so it doesn't

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necessarily feel like typical
musical theater music.

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And I've been working with a
team that is not from the

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Broadway world necessarily.
So it just has a very different

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feel to it, even though we are
now moving it in a more

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traditional direction towards
theoretically Broadway.

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But we're going to be going Off
Broadway in February.

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OK, yeah.
And that's probably part of that

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evolution, right?
Part of that evolution is now

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that from what I could find
online, you did it a few times

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in different places.
And then it's like, OK, now it's

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going to be this here.
Yeah, that's probably fun,

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right?
The creative aspect of it.

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It's, it's super fun, but you
know, every time we have to kind

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of reinvent it.
And so it really has evolved

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over the years.
And every time we do a new

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space, you kind of have to make
it fit in that theater in that

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space, like for what exactly
you're doing for the production.

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And so this one is going to be a
challenge because this is the

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biggest departure we've had so
far from what we've been doing

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over the last four iterations of
it.

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This one's going to be the
biggest change.

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So it, it feels like it's going
through a major overhaul right

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now.
We haven't.

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We're not like rewriting a lot
of it, but it's production wise

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is going to be very different
than it has been historically.

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Yeah.
What does that look like in when

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you get a new venue like that
just from like the the not, not

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so much the creative aspect, but
like the operational aspect,

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Like what is it?
It's it's got to be very in

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depth and involved to get a new
place to go.

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And what's this run going to
look like?

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Like how long is it?
How does that all work?

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Well, the first couple of
iterations I did at my own

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theater.
So I was very involved in every

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single aspect of it in the first
two productions that we did.

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The last couple that we've done
most recently the one in Los

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Angeles, we had a bigger
production team that was doing

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kind of that end of it the the
theater in the space because

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that was really involved.
We had quite a build out

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involved for that LA run.
This one we're moving into a

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traditional theater and it's
going to be like a full union

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Off Broadway production.
So there's, it's like very, I

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kind of already outlined the the
people and players that are

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going to be involved in that
process.

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And we're we're working on
putting that team together.

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But there's a lot of people
involved in putting a stage

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production together,
particularly in New York.

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Yeah.
So I I don't even really have to

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do a whole lot of that part of
it anymore.

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I've kind of handed that off to
the team that will, you know,

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build out the space and make all
that part come together so I can

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really just focus on the writing
and then performing.

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Nice.
Yeah.

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So how long is the New York run
going to be?

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Theoretically 12 weeks so at at
the longest and then we'll we'll

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cut it there, but which is a,
you know, a pretty typical for

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an Off Broadway new show to run
for like a limited time like

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that yeah, 8 to 12 weeks would
probably be kind of standard

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but.
OK, well now let's dive into it

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a little bit.
I, I don't know how you got

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there.
So like a lot of times when I'll

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like find somebody that I want
to come on the show or something

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like one of the main places I go
is LinkedIn, cuz I like, I think

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career paths are fascinating.
Yeah, yours fit the bill.

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I mean, from healthcare in like
a relatively an intense space of

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healthcare to the creative arts
and where you're at now.

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Take me through it.
What, you know, from nurse to

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nurse practitioner, right.
And then to the creative arts,

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how does that happen, you know?
Well, part of it is that I

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actually had a the trajectory of
music earlier on before I chose

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to go to nursing school.
I actually had a scholarship to

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go to Lawrence and study there.
And theoretically I would have

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done probably violin and vocal
performance.

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So I was a musician growing up.
I started playing violin when I

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was three years old.
So I think it was actually a bit

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of surprise, particularly to my
parents and just people that

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knew me growing up, that I did
not pursue music, you know, in

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college and earlier on.
Do you remember what went into

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that decision?
Absolutely.

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What was it?
Well, I, so I have congenital

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heart disease myself.
I was born with transposition of

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the great arteries.
Can't say it, it's a bit of a

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tongue twister, but so I've
always had that aspect of me

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like I've always wanted to take
care of kids with heart disease

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basically.
And so that was, you know, it

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was kind of time for me to make
a decision of what I was going

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to actually pursue for a career.
And while I have always loved

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music and is so core to who I am
as a person, the career path

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didn't really appeal to me as a
18 year old.

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I didn't, I didn't want to play
in an orchestra.

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I've never been like a big
orchestra person.

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I, you know, I did that growing
up, but I'd never really loved

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that.
And I like the prospect of

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becoming a singer in the way
that most people do is it's

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really difficult.
I didn't want to just like play

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gigs in a bar with nobody paying
attention or, you know, trying

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to break into the music scene is
nearly impossible.

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I mean, it's really hard now
too.

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It's just really, really
challenging.

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And as a younger person, I just
knew that that was going to be

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really difficult.
So that didn't really appeal to

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me.
I didn't want to be a music

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teacher.
I didn't really even want to

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study music in college, So I I
wanted to be a pediatric

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cardiologist is what I'd
originally thought I would do.

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So I went to Madison and started
kind of diving into that

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coursework and I took this
class.

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It was like a sociology of
healthcare course that kind of

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outlined the different careers
in healthcare.

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And I knew I wanted to be a mom
someday and the idea of becoming

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a nurse practitioner really
appealed to me.

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So I was like it, you know, it's
kind of the best of both worlds

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that, you know, kind of brought
in that medicine aspect of, you

225
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,680
know, physician, but it with a
little bit better work life

226
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balance.
So I started going down that

227
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,640
path and I did that for many
years.

228
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,960
I had, you know, 12 year career
and in healthcare.

229
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,120
So, but it really was inspired
by me wanting to help other sick

230
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,640
kids basically and kind of give
back in that way.

231
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,120
OK.
So then you go through that, you

232
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,000
do all that growth in your
career and then how does it come

233
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,400
to a head where you make the 180
that you did?

234
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:50,240
Yeah, Well, I mean, I so I spent
12 years working in pediatric

235
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,680
critical care.
I started in the neonatal ICU

236
00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,480
and then I did when I became a
nurse practitioner, I moved into

237
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,560
the pediatric ICU.
And this is going to sound kind

238
00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:03,040
of obvious, but working with
really sick and often dying

239
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,280
children is really hard.
It was incredibly emotionally

240
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,800
and physically taxing.
I was working a lot of nights

241
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,920
because I started my own family.
So I had my daughter already and

242
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,160
you know, I had a then
eventually son coming.

243
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:20,560
So I, I just really got burned
out.

244
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:26,080
I mean, it was just hard it and
I was commuting towards the end

245
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,240
because we'd move back to
Oshkosh to start our family.

246
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,280
So I was driving down to
Milwaukee and I would drive home

247
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,400
in the mornings after I'd work
these like 16 hour call shifts.

248
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,320
Sometimes they'd even work 24
hour calls, but usually they

249
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,560
were 16 hour night shifts.
And I would just like cry the

250
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:44,280
whole drive home because I was
just so exhausted and tired of

251
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,240
the whole thing is just very
taxing.

252
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,040
So I, that was a sign that it
was time for me to take a break.

253
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,040
I was I'd already started
working on the Howard.

254
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,440
We'd opened kind of around that
same time.

255
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,560
And, you know, something just
had to give.

256
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,280
And it was it was time for me to
leave.

257
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,400
It was really hard for me to
leave.

258
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,200
I loved my career in healthcare
very much.

259
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,920
I loved what I was doing.
I always loved going to work.

260
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,960
I loved my Co workers.
But it was time for me to to do

261
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,760
something different.
And at that time, what it was

262
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,120
was the Howard and opening this
theater.

263
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,960
So I didn't, I didn't have any
plans to start performing or

264
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,640
doing music myself again.
But I'd sort of started to foray

265
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,600
into it just by having this
venue.

266
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,920
And I was bringing in a lot of
musical artists and we were

267
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,880
doing all kinds of stuff, just
trying anything really to see

268
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,280
what would work in the space.
So it kind of organically

269
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,880
evolved from some of that.
But really what I was doing at

270
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,640
the time was just like running
this venue.

271
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,760
Yeah, let's stay on that for a
second because I've thought

272
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:47,680
about that a lot about that kind
of like emotional taxing that

273
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,800
happens to folks that work in
all realms of healthcare.

274
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:56,680
But I mean that specifically,
like, especially when you get

275
00:13:56,680 --> 00:14:01,040
into it because of like a sole
mission like you did, you know,

276
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,760
that means you're a feeler.
And then, you know, you meet

277
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:10,120
these people constantly on a
daily basis where it's like the

278
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,560
child's situation is heart
wrenching enough, but then all

279
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:19,520
day long you are supporting
helping families that have this

280
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,080
happening.
I I'm 100% sure I couldn't do

281
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,520
it.
Like that's, I don't know.

282
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,520
And you put it into words
already, but there I think

283
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,520
there's too much there to just
let slide by because that has to

284
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,480
be such an incredible toll on
the people that do it.

285
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,640
And you made it a a lot of
years.

286
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:45,040
Do you know others who left
similarly or do you see most

287
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,640
people stay?
I mean, it's, it is very common

288
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,960
to, to leave, particularly
nurses.

289
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,880
I mean, they will it's, it is a
little easier as a nurse to

290
00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,840
pivot and do something not quite
so intense.

291
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,800
A lot of my colleagues would
leave and work in like a the

292
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,800
PACU or like in a outpatient
setting, something that was just

293
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,200
like not quite so intense.
After, you know, many years of

294
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,520
getting experience in the ICU,
you can kind of do anything

295
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,200
really.
You've just built such a

296
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,080
foundation of knowledge and
skills that anything else you

297
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,520
could probably pretty much pick
up.

298
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,040
But when you're, I was like a
very specialized as a nurse

299
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,400
practitioner, Obviously, if
you're a physician, you're much

300
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,400
more specialized.
So, you know, people tend to

301
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,560
stay in those, you know,
specialties for a long time and

302
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,360
it, it's hard.
And I think there is, especially

303
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,680
post COVID, I think there has
been more acknowledgement of the

304
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,640
toll that it takes on people to
work in healthcare for many,

305
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,520
many years.
Even just the training is

306
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,640
obviously we all know, very
challenging for physicians, but

307
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,360
also for nurse practitioners and
for nurses.

308
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,720
Like the path to get there is,
is difficult.

309
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,440
And then once you're there,
it's, it doesn't really get much

310
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,120
easier.
It changes, you know, you're not

311
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,520
in training, but it's, it's just
a difficult job.

312
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:04,200
So to do that for years on end.
I mean, I think it is growing

313
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,240
the acknowledgement that people
do need to take care of

314
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,640
themselves more and there needs
to be more respite for our our

315
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,800
caregivers.
Yeah, yeah, Cuz I often wonder,

316
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,600
like there's probably a certain
amount of people that are like,

317
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,920
once you choose it and you get
there, you're kind of trapped in

318
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,640
a way because you spent a ton of
money to become trained to do

319
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,680
it.
And sure, the positions are

320
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,640
lucrative, but you spent a lot
of money to get there.

321
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,400
So there's a certain amount of
lifetime that like you signed on

322
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,680
the dotted line.
Indeed, yeah.

323
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,720
And I, you know, I'm not a
physician, so I didn't go

324
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,920
through that amount of training,
but the amount of training that

325
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,280
I went to, to get to my
specialty was a lot.

326
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,040
I mean, my master's degree
program was three years and then

327
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,240
I did a second master's degree
in public health.

328
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,080
That was another three years.
So, you know, I have a lot of

329
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,560
years put into it and just, you
know, on the job training of

330
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,440
many, many years.
So yeah, you kind of feel like,

331
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,000
was that a waste?
I don't know.

332
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,320
I certainly don't think it was a
waste.

333
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,520
I but it it was hard to walk
away for sure.

334
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,119
Yeah, there's probably to kind
of leave it on a high note

335
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,240
before we move to the next
topic.

336
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,200
There's probably sometimes that
you look back fondly.

337
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,160
On right there was about.
To help a ton and smiles aren't

338
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,440
sometimes the case.
Oh, for sure, yeah.

339
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,599
I, I have lots of good memories
about my time there.

340
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,839
But it was, it was so core to my
identity at the time that

341
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,319
leaving was really difficult
because I really defined myself

342
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,880
as, you know, as this healthcare
worker.

343
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,920
And so still to this day, and
it's been 6 years since I left.

344
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,760
It's getting better now, but it
was hard for me to distance

345
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,560
myself from that and kind of I
had to redefine myself for

346
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,960
myself too.
And, and obviously I did such a

347
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,360
180 with my career.
It was, that was a challenging

348
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,840
process.
And now six years later, I, you

349
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,880
know, it's, I feel like that has
actually occurred, but it took a

350
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:53,920
long time.
Yeah.

351
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:57,000
Do you think there's ever a path
back, or is it in your rearview

352
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,600
mirror completely?
I keep up my certification and

353
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,920
my license every year and I
every time I do it because it

354
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,640
takes, you know, probably takes
me a good 10 hours or whatever

355
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,760
to go through all the paperwork
and ongoing stuff that I have to

356
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,040
do.
It's not.

357
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,960
So it's not a big deal, but
every time I'm doing it, I'm

358
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,520
just like, why am I doing this?
Like, am I ever going to go

359
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,520
back?
I doubt it, but I can't let it

360
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:20,920
go.
Like I just have to.

361
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,480
So, you know, maybe someday
I'll, I will, but not, not yet.

362
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,320
Yeah, I think that identity
thing is pretty common.

363
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,080
I think that keeps people in a
lot of positions that they're

364
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:35,160
unhappy in because, you know,
for better or for worse, in

365
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,680
Western culture, like we're tied
to what we do to make money.

366
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,920
And that becomes so many
people's identities.

367
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,400
And if you're not inherently
like OK with being ambiguous or

368
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,320
like changing, that can be a
really difficult feeling, I

369
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,240
think for a lot of people,
especially when you you leave

370
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,880
something completely that, one,
you've been invested in and two,

371
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,760
you did for a reason at one
point in your life.

372
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,240
And we all evolve and change
into different humans.

373
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,720
But like, we still keep that
stuff there.

374
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,280
There's still those little
pieces of me when I made that

375
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,600
decision 15 years ago that are
still in there, even if it's not

376
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,080
serving you the best that it
could be today.

377
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:15,560
Yeah.
And I didn't leave because I

378
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,160
didn't love it.
I loved my job.

379
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,000
I loved my coworkers.
I loved my patients and my the

380
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,640
families I worked with.
Like I it was really, really

381
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,840
hard to leave.
It was just, I just couldn't do

382
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,760
it anymore.
Like physically I just couldn't

383
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,880
do it anymore.
Yeah, the a lot of things happen

384
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,120
in life like that where the
downsides start out weighing the

385
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,720
upsides and we don't often
realize it when we do.

386
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,920
But when you do, you have to,
you have to do something.

387
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,440
Yeah.
So then Howard's the next step.

388
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,480
Tell me about that.
Jumping into that.

389
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,280
I mean, that seems like a
daunting enough task as it was.

390
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,560
I I looked into a little bit
about what you did with the

391
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,640
place and everything.
How does that come about?

392
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,840
How has it gone Well?
That I had no clue what I was

393
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,600
doing and still don't.
But it kind of started with us.

394
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,400
My sister and I did that
together.

395
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,480
And we are both pretty involved
in our community and have a

396
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,080
philanthropic, you know, angle
that we have tried to, you know,

397
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,640
support our in our in various
different ways.

398
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,960
And so we were kind of like
looking for like a bit of a

399
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,880
philanthropic project.
And it's not a nonprofit, but

400
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,520
we're like, let's say of this
old cool building and like turn

401
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,880
it in some to something good for
the community and.

402
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,840
You know, so we opened in 2018
and just getting it up and

403
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,400
running was hugely challenging.
Learned a lot because I went

404
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,120
from a very different position
of kind of being in this big

405
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:40,280
organization and I was sort of
kind of middle of the structure.

406
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,240
You know, I, I had people that
reported to me sort of as a

407
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,920
nurse practitioner, but I
certainly had lots of people

408
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,640
that I was, you know, I was very
comfortably in the middle and

409
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,240
then you're like a business
owner all of a sudden and I

410
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,160
didn't have that experience.
I'd never hired people, fired

411
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,840
people just had to manage people
in that, that way, especially

412
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,240
starting a new thing that we, I
mean, we really didn't know what

413
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,120
we were doing at all.
And so we pulled in some good

414
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:08,880
people to help us do that.
But I, I learned a ton and, and

415
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,320
then COVID hit and basically
shut down our business like

416
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,040
everybody else.
You know, we're essentially at

417
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,040
events venue.
So that was challenging and

418
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,240
pulling out of that just I
didn't, I didn't ever really go

419
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,200
back to it the same way that I
did when I was getting it up and

420
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,520
running.
And now we just have a team that

421
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,200
manages it and and does all the
day-to-day.

422
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,720
And I'm not super involved there
anymore.

423
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,600
But I learned a lot in the
process of opening it and

424
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,320
running it for the first couple
years.

425
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,360
Yeah.
And I mean, what does that

426
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:40,680
learning look like?
Because it's so different being

427
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,480
an entrepreneur and opening a
few businesses like that.

428
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,680
Learning is way different than
what I would call like a more

429
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,040
traditional educational path to
healthcare where it's like, OK,

430
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,960
this is in the book, this is
what I need to know.

431
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,040
Business is a lot different
where it's kind of you need to

432
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,400
be a problem solver and think on
your toes.

433
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,280
Not saying nurses don't have to
be, but like the learning is so

434
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,160
much different.
What was that, a shock?

435
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,560
Yeah, I mean, yeah, there is no
playbook for it.

436
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,240
You just have to figure it out.
And I actually think that that

437
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,120
is something that I've learned
about myself through that

438
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,080
process.
And I'm, and that's kind of led

439
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,920
me now to doing this musical
theatre thing is I'm good at

440
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,240
just like figuring it out.
And that is such a skill that we

441
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,280
don't really teach very well.
And it's, but it's becoming more

442
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,160
and more important for you to
have for people to be able to

443
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,280
just like figure things out and
not need a lot of management.

444
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,320
You know, like nobody was going
to tell me.

445
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:36,640
I didn't have anybody to tell me
what to do.

446
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,040
Like nobody was going to save me
or, or tell me like you're doing

447
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,080
it wrong.
You got to do this.

448
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,000
Like you just, you just have to
figure it out.

449
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,360
So that was that was a good
lesson to learn.

450
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,720
Just like on a large scale, I
guess, you know, for that you

451
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,200
can apply to anything.
But just getting being scrappy,

452
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,600
you know, just really and doing
a lot of the work yourself too.

453
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,360
I mean it.
I've had my hands in it.

454
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,560
One of my favorite stories is
the first weekend that we had

455
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,600
weddings, we were just doing
everything ourselves.

456
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,080
We didn't have a big staff.
And so we, we had like a couple

457
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,880
weddings in a row.
And so on Saturday morning, I

458
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:17,240
came in to kind of like flip the
place and all, like two or three

459
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,200
of the toilets were clogged and
we realized we didn't have any

460
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,080
plungers.
So I'm going to Piggly Wiggly

461
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,120
at, you know, 8:00 in the
morning, just like loading up on

462
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,200
plungers, you know, just stuff
like that.

463
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,200
You don't even think about it
and because, yeah, you just had

464
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,000
to go do it, it's not a big
deal.

465
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,840
But like you're just like, oh,
shoot, I didn't even think about

466
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,000
that.
Like we don't have any plungers

467
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,600
here, you know, stuff like that.
So I've done all kinds of things

468
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,600
in that building and business
just to like make it work and

469
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,280
figure it out and.
Did you clear the clogs and the

470
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,640
wedding went off without a?
Hitch Oh, yeah.

471
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,880
It was all fine.
But, you know, we just had to,

472
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,840
Yeah.
Like, oh, shoot, I guess we'll

473
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,640
go make a run to Piggly Wiggly.
Get some plunger.

474
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,360
So just stuff like that, you
know, it's not, it's not

475
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,920
glamorous and that's OK.
And I liked doing that.

476
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:04,320
And I had a, we had a new baby.
So I, he was like 3 days old and

477
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,960
I had to open this business.
So I just strapped him to my

478
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,320
chest and a little baby carrier.
And I remember I was like

479
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,480
carrying chairs up and down the
steps with like a baby.

480
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:20,120
It was crazy.
Yeah, motivational dude, we.

481
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,600
Brought him to work with me and
just did all the things so with

482
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,440
my team and yeah, we made it,
made it happen so.

483
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,080
Did the baby sleep good in the
carrier?

484
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:29,640
He.
Was great.

485
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,800
Thankfully he was a really chill
baby, so he was really great.

486
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,560
I just brought him to work with
me, yeah.

487
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,400
Yeah.
Pass him around a little bit.

488
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,280
Yeah, when you back needed a
break or something?

489
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,280
Yeah, it.
Was it was a lot of women

490
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,840
working on it.
So we were all like very happy

491
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:44,920
to take the baby for a little
bit.

492
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,200
And so it was really helpful.
Every kind of pitched in, yeah.

493
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,960
I mean, there's worse things to
do in the world than holding a

494
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:50,680
cute little.
Baby.

495
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:51,560
Yeah.
No, no, for sure.

496
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,040
Yeah, it was kind of fun.
You touched on one thing.

497
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,920
I was going to be my next
question though.

498
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,600
What parts about that did you
come across that you were like,

499
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,640
I really like this, like problem
solving came out of that.

500
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,760
But like, what parts of business
ownership were you able to pluck

501
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,360
in like contrast to healthcare
that you were like, OK, this, I

502
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,920
like, this I like.
Well, I love hosting.

503
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,680
I love it.
Which to me is like a different

504
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,120
form of caregiving.
Like I like hosting dinner

505
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:22,080
parties or just anything.
So any opportunity that I had to

506
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,120
host an event there and bring
people in and let them have like

507
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:31,280
a fun night out, that's where I
really found a lot of happiness.

508
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,040
And that's where the show
evolved from is basically me

509
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,520
doing that as like a producer.
I guess I don't know what I'd

510
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,520
really call myself in that role
because I was just putting all

511
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,920
the pieces together, hiring the
talent.

512
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,200
I wasn't the talent, but just
making an event happen really.

513
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,040
And then the show kind of
evolved from that, but that was

514
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,280
not my intention when I started
out at all.

515
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,640
That's super fascinating, the
show Blood love that evolved.

516
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:03,480
Interesting jump.
So would you say so?

517
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,480
Self diagnosis is a skill.
I think a lot of times we don't

518
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,320
get a full picture of ourselves
and take time to like comprehend

519
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,960
what we truly enjoy and stuff
like that.

520
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,120
Would you say that's a strength
of yours 'cause that's well?

521
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,040
I like to take care of people
and taking care of people in the

522
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,760
hospital isn't that different in
a lot of ways than taking care

523
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,120
of a guest.
You know, obviously it's

524
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,000
different, but there's a lot of
similarity there.

525
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,800
It's just, it's, it is all
caregiving and I still think of

526
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,600
it that way.
And the show isn't really quite

527
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,720
that anymore, but now it's
morphed into something else.

528
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,360
But certainly at the Howard,
that's how I thought about it,

529
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:43,240
like taking care of our guests
and wanting them to have a

530
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,040
really great experience,
especially they're paying money

531
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,680
to come to our venue and have a,
you know, hopefully a good

532
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,600
experience.
But to me, they weren't really

533
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,960
actually that dissimilar.
Yeah, yeah, they're not really.

534
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,400
I think what's a little bit
outside the norm is like the the

535
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,840
path there and like diagnosing
that for yourself, be like,

536
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,360
yeah, OK, this is a good thing.
I don't know.

537
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:10,080
That's such a valuable thing to
be able to do.

538
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,480
Like know what you truly get
satisfaction out of and then be

539
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,280
able to implement in different
parts of life.

540
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,720
Because oftentimes there's not a
whole lot of different things

541
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,480
where satisfaction comes from in
life.

542
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,040
When you really break it down to
the foundational pieces of like

543
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,880
where happiness comes from or
joy and what truly makes you

544
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,320
satisfied.
And then once you know that,

545
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,880
then you can do whatever you
want because there's a million

546
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,760
different ways that you can
spread that dust around.

547
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:45,920
So OK, now we're to the show
that I'm significantly less

548
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,280
familiar with.
Like how does that?

549
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,280
How do you decide to write
something like that or create

550
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,880
that?
Well, again, it kind of it did.

551
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,600
I'm just gonna.
Yeah, it evolved quite

552
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,320
organically.
We were doing all these shows at

553
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,280
the Howard and we had done some
like dinner theatre and we were

554
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,960
kind of trying to make dinner
theatre cool again.

555
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,360
She didn't like quite succeed in
doing that.

556
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:15,320
But through that process, we
just had tried a bunch of things

557
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,600
and kind of found what worked in
the space and what people

558
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,840
responded to, like what people
enjoyed coming to.

559
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,880
And I love Halloween, and my
sister and I wanted to basically

560
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,160
throw like a really elaborate
Halloween party.

561
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,520
And we partnered with some other
people, some other creatives,

562
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,400
and basically I kind of called
it like a party with a plot

563
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,240
line.
We had this like very

564
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,280
intentional Halloween party that
was, it was like like we called

565
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,560
it the Gathering of the
vampires.

566
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,520
And it was a black tie vampire
ball with like original fashion

567
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,040
show.
And there was some original

568
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,840
music.
And there was like kind of a

569
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,520
central character.
And there was like sort of a

570
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,920
loose plot to this party.
Not like a murder mystery, but

571
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,640
kind of like that concept like
that.

572
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,720
There was sort of just like
these little Nuggets of things

573
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,440
being placed throughout the
evening, driving everybody

574
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,840
towards like a final point of
the night.

575
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,280
And it was really, really
successful.

576
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,280
People loved it.
And I was like, this is cool.

577
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,800
We're on to something.
But I want to like build it into

578
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,960
more of a show.
Like instead of just kind of

579
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,360
this, it was more of a party
then.

580
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,280
And I was like, I want to make
it more of a show, like an

581
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,800
immersive show.
And so we just started doing

582
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:28,440
that.
I did.

583
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,880
I had to find the other thing
that evolved from that.

584
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,120
It was I was like, I want to
work on the music.

585
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,440
Like I think I can do this.
I hadn't really done anything

586
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,560
myself in the music world or
performed or anything in many,

587
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,160
many years, but just kind of
gave me the bug that like I, I

588
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,720
think I could, I could actually
work on the music here.

589
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,560
So I, I had to find a different
team of, of people to work on it

590
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,880
with me.
So I approached acquaintance in

591
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,840
town that's a singer-songwriter
has become a very dear friend of

592
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,760
mine, Aaron Baim.
And she was, I was like, you

593
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,960
know, I want to do this show.
I don't really have any concept

594
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,160
for it yet other than I want it
to like, build this thing and

595
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,360
like, could you help me work on
some music?

596
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,840
And she's like, yes, but like,
I'm not a music producer.

597
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,200
So we're going to need to find
somebody to help us kind of on

598
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,000
that end of it.
And she lived in LA for many

599
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,720
years and knew a lot of
producers.

600
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,520
And so we went out to LA and met
with a couple of them and just

601
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,640
really immediately hit it off
with my now, you know, creative

602
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,080
partner Drew and his kind of
other part writing partner Adam.

603
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,760
And the four of us just, like,
started writing music.

604
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,120
So it's just like kind of
organically started evolving.

605
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,640
I, I don't know.
And then now, five years later,

606
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,160
we have a whole musical.
Yeah.

607
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,320
So, so it's it starts with the
music and then the rest kind of

608
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,560
fits around that.
Yeah, it almost started as like

609
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,920
a concept album, the first
iteration that we did in 2021.

610
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,160
It was more of a we had like a
loose plot and that was starting

611
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,840
to come together, but it was
just kind of mainly music at

612
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,720
that point.
OK.

613
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,800
And and I know nothing about
musicals.

614
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,840
Is that pretty common in that
space?

615
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,560
Like does it start with the
music frequently or does it?

616
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,960
There's definitely a path where
people start with a concept

617
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,920
album.
I would say that is not UN

618
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,640
uncommon.
What's probably more common is a

619
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,400
book musical where you start
with a piece of IP, usually a

620
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,480
literal book, a novel or
something, some source material,

621
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,560
and then they write music to or
movie, you know, like Dirty

622
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,680
Dancing the musical or, you
know, that's happened a million

623
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,360
times.
So usually there's some

624
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,200
significant source material that
then people are writing music to

625
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,880
and shaping it into a musical.
Like we had.

626
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,400
We have zero.
We just made it all up.

627
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,120
Our source material is just like
vampires, you know, there was

628
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,520
nothing.
There was nothing.

629
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,640
Kind of.
Yeah.

630
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,560
And now we're actually pulling
it out of Halloween 'cause it's

631
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,800
not even really Halloween.
I mean, of course vampires work

632
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,040
at Halloween time, but it's not,
it's not a Halloween show by any

633
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:54,680
means.
So.

634
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,000
Yeah.
Yeah, and I mean, everybody

635
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,280
loves a good vampire thing like
there's so it's.

636
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,840
I always say they're like
literally eternal.

637
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,400
I mean, there's always a popular
vampire thing.

638
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,560
It just kind of ebbs and flows
what it is at the moment.

639
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,520
But like right now, that movie
Sinner has recently came out.

640
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,120
Haven't seen it yet 'cause it's
still in the theaters and I

641
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,120
don't go to the theatre very
often, but it's been super

642
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,960
popular.
And so that's kind of been a new

643
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,800
and it's like has a musical
element to it.

644
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,600
So everybody's like really into
that at the moment.

645
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,960
So there's just always something
that people are into that are

646
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,080
everybody.
The vampires are like cool and

647
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,560
sexy and everybody kind of wants
to be 1.

648
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,240
So you know, who doesn't want to
live forever, theoretically.

649
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,520
So yeah, it's just people like
it.

650
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,560
I was going to ask that to to
you where your interest in

651
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,720
vampires comes from, but we kind
of got there via.

652
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Halloween it's really mainly
Halloween, but like I like a

653
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,840
very I like a really curated
party.

654
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,680
And so I've always loved
Halloween, but like hate going

655
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,360
to bad Halloween parties where
everybody like has like

656
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,000
mismatched costumes, you know,
like some people would be really

657
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,760
well dressed and then they'll be
people that just like really

658
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,160
didn't put a lot of thought or
effort into that, you know, So I

659
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:01,160
wanted to have like a more
curated costume party basically.

660
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:02,840
So everybody came as and
vampires is easy.

661
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,320
It's basically just like wear
black and like put your own spin

662
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:06,480
on it.
Super easy.

663
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,360
Yeah, and people really ran with
it and we for the first couple

664
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,880
years like made people wear
black if they to come to the

665
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,320
show and it just like it's a
vibe so well.

666
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,080
That probably still happens,
right?

667
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,560
I would, I would think.
People get really into it, yeah,

668
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,680
and it's cool.
Yeah, that's what you want.

669
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,080
That's what you want as a
creative.

670
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,280
You want people to be immersed
in what you do and connected to

671
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,080
what you do.
I don't know anything about

672
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,920
musicals.
I've been playing music for a

673
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,880
long time.
And I mean all the way down to

674
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,800
someone tapping their foot.
When you play, it's it's what

675
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,000
you're looking for.
You want someone, you know,

676
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,360
speaking about what goes back to
that satisfaction.

677
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,120
I think one of the cool parts
about music in general is just

678
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,320
that it allows you to connect
and kind of bridges gaps in

679
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,960
connection, even if it doesn't
include you like it.

680
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,880
It might be external, but that's
one of the best things.

681
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,040
So, yeah, you see somebody
coming to the party and they're

682
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,480
dressed up for the vibe.
You know, that's a good thing.

683
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,960
So what's the you said that with
the next run, it's going to be

684
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,560
significantly different without,
you know, giving away all the

685
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,159
secrets.
What what's the evolution of it,

686
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:15,920
Ben?
Because I would, I would assume

687
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,320
that was for you personally,
that was probably the harder of

688
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,120
the two parts, right?
Because growing up a musician,

689
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,480
the music probably comes, but
then what does the other side

690
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,719
creatively look like creating
the rest of the show?

691
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,120
And what's it going to evolve to
now?

692
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,520
Well, part of the challenge is
just sticking with it.

693
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:37,920
You know, like to to continue on
the same project for five plus

694
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,239
years now.
I mean, that actually is one of

695
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,719
the most challenging parts.
Like I just had a new draft of

696
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,520
the script do and I like call my
creative partner earlier this

697
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,600
week and I was like, I think I'm
losing my mind, like I don't

698
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:49,800
think I can rewrite this thing
again.

699
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,719
Like I just I it's like met the
mental gymnastics of like

700
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,400
continuing to work on the same
thing over all these evolutions.

701
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,760
It it's a very interesting
challenge.

702
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,680
You don't just like finish it
and put it away.

703
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,440
It just keeps, you have to keep
reworking it and, and it gets

704
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,560
better every time.
And every time I think I don't

705
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,080
have any more vampire songs in
me, somehow we write another

706
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,040
vampire song.
So it's like, that is really

707
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,680
like an interesting process.
But so this new iteration in New

708
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,240
York is going to be the first
time that we actually really put

709
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:26,600
it on a traditional stage and
that the audience is here and

710
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,320
the stage is here.
Every time we've done it in the

711
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,440
past, it's been in a really
immersive way.

712
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,640
So the, the show kind of moves
throughout the whole space and

713
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,280
amongst the audience and, but
theoretically, if we want to

714
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,160
ever bring it to like Broadway
or just to, you know, be able to

715
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,600
tour with it or something like
you do need to be able to put it

716
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,840
on a more traditional theatre
stage.

717
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,480
So that is what we are going to
do with this next production and

718
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,840
what we still want it to feel.
I'd like I love that word that

719
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,480
you use connected because to me
that has been my new finding of

720
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,120
of like joy and fulfilment in
this project is when I when I

721
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,480
wanted to do a live show, a lot
of people would go, why do you

722
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,000
like want to do this for film?
And I'm not a big movie watcher

723
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,440
goer.
I've always preferred live

724
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,880
performance because there is
that human connection.

725
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,800
And I feel like now more than
ever, we need that so

726
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,880
desperately.
And I want the audience to be be

727
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,760
part of it.
Then they don't have to perform

728
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,800
to feel connected to the music
to this production.

729
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,560
But how do we still have that
connection now that we're going

730
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,200
to be like separated physically?
And I think we can still achieve

731
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,080
that.
I certainly have seen a lot of

732
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,400
shows where I, I feel connected
to it and I have that emotional

733
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,440
response, even though it's in a,
you know, I'm in the audience

734
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,360
and they're on stage.
But I want to make sure we don't

735
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,680
lose that element because we are
a little more separated.

736
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,720
So that's, that is the biggest
challenge for me going into this

737
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:46,440
next one is like still
connecting with the audience.

738
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,000
And this theatre that we're
going to is Off Broadway.

739
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,400
And so it's still pretty small.
It's only 160 seats.

740
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,520
So there is that like level of
intimacy just because it's a

741
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,560
small space, but you still have
to be able to like theoretically

742
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,360
scale that up and still have
that connection.

743
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,000
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, even 160 people

744
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,120
commanding attention is a tough
thing.

745
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,280
Yeah, in our life.
But I couldn't agree more.

746
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,200
That's actually one of the
reasons I started the podcast.

747
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,440
That's one of my driving forces
of it is I couldn't agree more

748
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:18,120
that we need, we could use being
more connected as just humans.

749
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,920
Yeah.
And there's a lot of things that

750
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,160
go unnoticed that connect us
because of all the divisive

751
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,360
things that are in life that
like put up these invisible

752
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,280
barriers that are just silly
most of the time that it's just

753
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,360
like, OK, that's going to,
that's going to stop us from

754
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,000
talking or that's going to stop
me from enjoying your company or

755
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,160
something like that.
So, yeah, that I couldn't agree

756
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,720
more.
That's one of the reasons I, you

757
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:48,800
know, I wrestle with this
frequently because like, even on

758
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,320
social media, like from this
episode, we're gonna, I'm gonna

759
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,160
make some really cool social
media clips that are gonna jump

760
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,160
and they're gonna catch
attention and they're gonna,

761
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,840
people are gonna click like and
stuff.

762
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,680
But like, my ultimate goal is
for you to listen to the whole

763
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,240
conversation because that's
where the value is.

764
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:08,360
Like that's where I think like
spending 20 minutes talking to

765
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,160
your neighbor that even if it's
somebody you don't agree with on

766
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,680
everything or something like
that, or like all the way to

767
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,280
like philanthropic stuff with
your community that you said is,

768
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,040
is kind of a passion of yours.
All of that stuff is so

769
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:27,480
important and it's missing in
vast pockets of, of our country.

770
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,640
And like, I don't know, I, I
don't have, I certainly don't

771
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,080
have the silver bullet.
The 500 people that listen to

772
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,400
this podcast aren't going to run
out and start changing the world

773
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,680
immediately.
But like, it's a, it's a step in

774
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:42,920
the right direction.
I don't know.

775
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,640
And it's it's cool that you
think about your your art

776
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,360
through that lens too, because
art a lot of times is something

777
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,000
that has to come out of us.
Like when I'm writing a song,

778
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,600
it's just I don't plan at 9:00
on a Tuesday.

779
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,880
I'm going to write a song.
It just happens, you know?

780
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:01,280
Yeah.
It's hard to force it.

781
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,600
Yeah.
But but it's cool to look at it

782
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,840
through that lens because then I
think, I don't know, you're able

783
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,600
to keep the audience in mind,
right?

784
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,120
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's certainly who I

785
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,320
have in mind.
I mean, I, so I started as a

786
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,280
classical violinist and so my
first medium and I love to sing.

787
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,360
So I was probably singing before
I was really talking.

788
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,960
But you know, as a classical
violinist, like there are no

789
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,000
words.
So you're connecting with with

790
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,880
music that transcends even
needing to share a language.

791
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,120
And I think music is that for so
many people.

792
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,240
I mean, you don't have to be a
musician to feel that way about

793
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:37,440
music.
So many people are just

794
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,320
consumers of music, but like
feel so passionately about it.

795
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,240
And so I, you know, I keep
telling my team as we're writing

796
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,200
this thing and I'm rewriting it
for like the billionth time,

797
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,440
like kind of losing my mind.
What I'm always focused on is

798
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,040
just like, if there were no
words to this show, am I still

799
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,880
telling the story and like
conveying that emotion on stage?

800
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,840
Like could I be singing this in
a different language that nobody

801
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,520
speaks and they still can follow
what I'm doing?

802
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,240
We call it a rock popra, but I
love opera.

803
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,960
I love ballet 'cause it is so
storytelling without.

804
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:10,800
I mean, I know there's words in
opera, but they're.

805
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:14,640
In different language usually.
And so like you can tell what's

806
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:17,120
you can follow a story and feel
connected to it emotionally

807
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,600
without having any dialogue or
any words really.

808
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,120
And so that is like what I'm
trying to achieve is like that

809
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,560
emotional pull just with the
music alone.

810
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,360
Yeah, quick sidebar.
Classical violin.

811
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:32,720
I call it a fiddle.
Is that all right?

812
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,200
I mean, I do not fiddle, so no,
it's not all right.

813
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,880
No, I I mean, I have never.
Yeah, it's a violin.

814
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,000
But sure, I knew that was going.
To it's a well, it's a very

815
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,520
different style of music and
playing that I really just don't

816
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,520
do.
I mean, a little bit I did when

817
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,960
I was younger, but I just don't
play that way.

818
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,560
Yeah, and that's kind of why I
ask.

819
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,920
And in jest, I I ask because
it's it's, that's what it is,

820
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,560
right?
It's like somebody who says they

821
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,560
play the fiddle, just it looks
at it in a completely different

822
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,520
way, right?
And in a different light.

823
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:14,800
Yes, yeah, I play well, now I
play an electric violin, so I've

824
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,360
taken in like a little bit
different direction.

825
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,560
So I play it like with pop music
in my show.

826
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,800
So I don't really play classical
repertoire anymore.

827
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,840
I do play I play a little bit of
classical music in the in the

828
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,760
show, just a whiff.
But when I play in the show,

829
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,800
it's like along with the the
music of the musical, so.

830
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,880
So when you hear it called a
fiddle, does it like make your

831
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:31,880
eye twitch a little bit or I
really?

832
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,600
Care.
It does almost just like feel

833
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:35,880
like a different instrument to
me.

834
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,640
Yeah, I like just, yeah, but
yeah, it's the same instrument.

835
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,600
Just used in a different way.
Yes, totally.

836
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,640
I think I've always been envious
of both sides, really to to kind

837
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,680
of take it back to seriousness.
I love the instrument in

838
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,200
general.
I've never even picked one up,

839
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:59,320
never tried to play one.
Yeah, but the the emotions that

840
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,280
you can evoke out of a sound
with it are really central to my

841
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,360
musical appetite.
Yeah, I guess I would say what?

842
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,880
How'd you start at a young age?
What would you read of the?

843
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,640
Well, my mom made me.
I mean, yeah, I was so young

844
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,320
that my mom I so I was a Suzuki
violinist and anybody who's in

845
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,320
music knows that it's kind of
like the Montessori of music.

846
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,160
It's a method that's heavily
relies on ear training 'cause

847
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,920
when you're 3, you can't read
music yet.

848
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,960
So it just really focuses on on
ear training and learning by

849
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:31,960
ear.
So I can play.

850
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,120
I can play at a level that is
much higher than my sight

851
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,920
reading abilities still to this
day 'cause I was so well ear

852
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,880
trained that I can just hear
something and play it.

853
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,040
That's how I learn.
So it has served me well as a

854
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,960
musician in general, but it is
also a challenge to like have

855
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,160
like a little bit of a struggle
sometimes reading music.

856
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,000
Perfect segue into something
else I wanted to talk about

857
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,400
today.
So we'll get there in a second,

858
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,800
but I'm wrestling with this.
I think most parents wrestle

859
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:06,560
with this of how to encourage
and adapt to your children's

860
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,640
interests.
Well, not having, in my case, my

861
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,880
sons say in 20 years.
Well, it's something my dad made

862
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:20,360
me do, you know, luckily I've,
my interests are really diverse

863
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,520
and varied.
So he's got a bunch of different

864
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,280
things that he can pick from to
see an example of, but one of

865
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,640
them is playing guitar a lot.
And that's one of the things

866
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,120
that he's been drawn to.
I bought him, it's called this

867
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,920
lug guitar.
It just has the, the bottom

868
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,000
three strings of a guitar and
he, it's the best thing in the

869
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,680
world.
He puts it on wrong all the

870
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,240
time.
Sometimes he strums with his

871
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:44,880
right hand, sometimes he strums
with his left hand and he's got

872
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,920
like he'll have the, the strap
just around his neck like a

873
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,800
necklace and it'll be just
going.

874
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,360
And it's awesome.
And I'm trying to figure out how

875
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,840
to nurture that and bring it to
life without being, you know,

876
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,120
like learn this chord or like,
you know, this is how you're

877
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,720
supposed to do it.
Like, of course he's not playing

878
00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:06,720
chords right now, but it's, I
think it's awesome that he's 3

879
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,000
and he'll stand there and he'll
act like he's playing and he can

880
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,440
sing a whole song right now and
there's just so much joy in him.

881
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,520
So the segue comes in a second,
but what was your first?

882
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,920
What was your experience with
that like?

883
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,320
Did you, would you do you look
back upon it fondly?

884
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:32,680
And it sounds like as you aged a
little bit and came of age, that

885
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,040
it was something that maybe you
fell out of love with a little

886
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,480
bit.
How does that whole process look

887
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,480
for you growing up, starting at
such a young age and then like

888
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,680
learning it and having it be
core to you?

889
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,720
Well thinking well this isn't
what I want to do.

890
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:52,000
Yeah, well, I mean, music is so
core to who I am as a person

891
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,120
that even though at three, I
don't think I was making the

892
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,160
conscious decision to start
playing, but I was just too

893
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,200
young.
But it's like, I don't remember

894
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,560
a point in my life that I didn't
play the violin.

895
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,960
Like I don't remember any ever,
not being a musician, you know?

896
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,560
And, and it came frankly, very
actually to me, like I just have

897
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,800
it, it is true just like
anything, like some, I just have

898
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,880
some natural talent as a
musician.

899
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,680
And so, and then I became highly
trained by practicing and

900
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:25,880
playing for many, many years.
But I think so now I have a six

901
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,200
year old, 9 year old and they
both play violin.

902
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,760
And so I don't have an answer to
that question cause trying to do

903
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,200
it now with my own children,
it's hard.

904
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,160
And my daughter's doing well.
She's my older, she's 9.

905
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,000
But it's clear that my son has a
little bit more of a natural

906
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,120
aptitude for it.
And so it it's hard.

907
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,160
They both enjoy doing it, but it
is a little difficult to push

908
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,000
them on that path without
pushing them too hard because

909
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,960
you don't want them to be turned
off from doing it.

910
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:55,400
Yeah.
It's like a very delicate

911
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,560
balance.
But for me, I loved it.

912
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:58,920
It wasn't that I didn't love
music anymore.

913
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,440
I just didn't like, want to do
it as a career.

914
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,000
And I just, like, needed to do
the same thing.

915
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,480
I was like, kind of almost
burned out in music.

916
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,520
I'd done so much music growing
up that that's all I had done

917
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,840
because I also played piano and
I was a singer.

918
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,480
So I was, I just like was so
immersed in music 24/7

919
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,040
basically.
And I didn't want to, you know,

920
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,800
do that as a career at least at
that point that I, I just had to

921
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,320
do something else.
You know, it's time for a

922
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,440
change.
The only regret I have in my

923
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,920
life, and I will say is that I
didn't at least keep playing

924
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,040
violin like more formally, not
that I had to do it as a career,

925
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,280
but like that I didn't keep
taking lessons or just it's

926
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,840
harder to do that as an adult if
you're not like studying music.

927
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,360
Like I didn't want to study at
Conservatory, but I wish I would

928
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,000
just like found a teacher and
kept playing because I basically

929
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,960
didn't play for 20 years.
And then I had to pick it up

930
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,960
again for the show a couple
years ago.

931
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:49,080
And then it's been a whole
journey of like, trying to start

932
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,400
playing the violin again and
like realizing I'll never play

933
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,400
at the level that I played, you
know, back then, but at least

934
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,240
feeling confident about
performing on stage again that I

935
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,360
that's taken some time.
You don't think you can get back

936
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,080
to it?
No, I know I can't.

937
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,800
Why is that?
I don't have the time and I

938
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,600
just, I'm older now and it's
just it, yeah.

939
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,160
Isn't it so much harder to learn
stuff when you're older?

940
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,520
I find that.
Yeah, it definitely is.

941
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,560
So I have, I mean, I've got a
great foundation.

942
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,280
I can play, I play in the show,
but I just I was playing at a

943
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,640
quite a high level, you know,
when I was 18 and I just yeah, I

944
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,640
won't get back there.
It's OK.

945
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,080
I'm I'm not made peace with it.
It's OK.

946
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:27,600
I don't need to play at that
level anymore.

947
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,440
I'm not doing anything that
requires me to play at that

948
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,720
level.
But it is kind of like if I

949
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,600
would have just like kept
playing more casually over the.

950
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:38,640
Even once a month or something.
Yeah, I just didn't.

951
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,160
I like basically put my violin
in it, violin away and like

952
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,880
didn't play it for like 20
years.

953
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,680
Just kind of crazy.
It is kind of crazy, yeah.

954
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,600
Very rarely when I take it out
of its case.

955
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,720
And then basically I was like,
wow, this is really out of tune

956
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:51,680
and I need to get, you know,
it's just, I barely would play

957
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:52,960
it.
But now I play regularly.

958
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,000
I mean, I have a teacher again
and I play, you know, maybe not

959
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,080
every day.
I I kind of go through sports

960
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,200
with it.
But yeah, I play regularly now.

961
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:03,640
Yeah, so learning is the other
thing I wanted to talk about.

962
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,080
I might.
I don't even know how to say it,

963
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,520
but is it Acton Academy?
Yep.

964
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:12,280
K there's that's another nice
little offshoot of this career

965
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,680
path that you're on.
Tell me about.

966
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,600
It yeah.
So as obviously I've got two

967
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,280
kids and when we were moving
back to the area, we are looking

968
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,080
at the educational landscape and
just wasn't feeling super

969
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,640
inspired by any of the options
here for our own kids.

970
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:34,200
And I obviously took a very
traditional educational path

971
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,120
myself.
I, I did very well in the

972
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:41,680
traditional system, but I just
wasn't loving any of the options

973
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,160
for my own kids and I just like
wanted something else.

974
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,760
I think we all recognize that
education has a lot of

975
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,240
challenges these days and that
the way that we've been teaching

976
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:53,200
kids for so many years, it's
just not like adapting to the

977
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,600
changing world, at least not
quickly enough.

978
00:48:56,240 --> 00:49:00,120
So I did a little digging
literally just on Google and to

979
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,040
just find other educational
models, different schools

980
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,840
because there's so many
interesting things going on in

981
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,880
the world of education around
the country, around the world,

982
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,040
but there's a lot of things
happening.

983
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,360
And I found this school that was
founded in Austin, TX.

984
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,080
I think they're about 15 ish
years in now at least.

985
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:22,160
And basically learned more about
their school and applied to

986
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:26,200
become one of their affiliate
schools and got accepted, went

987
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,760
down to Austin, met the
founders, spent a couple days at

988
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,720
their school in in Austin.
And yeah, just like started

989
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:37,360
going on that journey of, of
opening a school and I recruited

990
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,480
my best friend to help open it
with me.

991
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,720
And now she actually like she
does 95% of the work now she's

992
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:44,920
the director of the school and
does all the day-to-day.

993
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,040
But yeah, we're we are finishing
up our fifth year.

994
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,600
So we already are five years in.
But So what is it?

995
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,720
What, how what?
How is the instruction delivered

996
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,400
different in a differentiated
way?

997
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,480
So one of the core differences
with Acton is we don't, we don't

998
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,000
even call our teachers teachers,
We call them guides.

999
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,040
And their number one goal is to
not actually directly answer

1000
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,440
questions and they don't really
give a whole lot of direct

1001
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,400
instruction.
So it's all very self-paced

1002
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,400
independent learning.
It's a lot of people are

1003
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,280
familiar with Montessori and we
actually do use Montessori

1004
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,400
materials with the younger kids,
like kind of before they're like

1005
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,520
really like the 4-5 year olds
particularly we use a lot.

1006
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,560
But then with older kids, it
kind of continues on that

1007
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,880
philosophy of like self-paced
learning and but we bring in

1008
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,400
technology, the kids use some
iPad, you know, curriculum, like

1009
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,240
a lot of schools do not like a
lot of it is, but you can do a

1010
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:39,840
lot of individualized learning
about it that way because a lot

1011
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,360
of it is just like self-paced.
Then if you can just move

1012
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,640
through the lessons that way.
So but anyway, so the guides

1013
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,800
don't really teach in a
traditional sense.

1014
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,080
They just are very good at
asking the right questions and

1015
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,920
helping kids to figure out the
answers on their own, which is

1016
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,600
it's like the, it's a Socratic
method really.

1017
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:02,240
And that's difficult.
It's really difficult to not

1018
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:05,360
just give somebody the answer.
So as a parent, your natural

1019
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,560
instinct is to just solve
problems for your kids.

1020
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,680
But ultimately what I believe
we, what we believe is that

1021
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,560
we'll, what will serve them
better is teaching them early on

1022
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,000
how to figure it out themselves,
You know, and we're doing that

1023
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,760
at a really young age and to an
age appropriate level, right?

1024
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,600
I mean, we're still there,
there's still obviously adults

1025
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,640
and rude to to provide that
structure and you know, if they

1026
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,480
really need, if things really go
off the rails, you know, there

1027
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,880
are adults there obviously, but
we give them a lot of latitude

1028
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:36,920
and a lot of agency in their own
learning and their own like

1029
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,760
running of the we call them
studios instead of classrooms,

1030
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,920
but of their own studios.
It's kind of like their own

1031
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,120
little like democracy host and
they have their own rules.

1032
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,400
They've got their own like
reward systems, they've got

1033
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,080
their own.
They just kind of have created

1034
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,400
their own the.
Students, you're saying yes.

1035
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:58,360
And this is older kids now the,
the real younger kids, we kind

1036
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,680
of are gearing them up to be
able to, to be ready for that.

1037
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,320
But like the 9:10 11-12 year
olds, like they're doing this

1038
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,720
really well on their own.
They have like, here's an

1039
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:10,520
example.
My daughter kind of got into AI

1040
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,280
guess like fight, you know, 9
year old girl fight with a

1041
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,480
friend of hers over the weekend,
like not at school.

1042
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,840
And so on Monday, they did a
conflict resolution and like

1043
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,640
worked this out, had like like a
diplomatic conflict and like

1044
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:25,680
they're 9.
Self-guided.

1045
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,720
Yes, 'cause they know the
process, they've been taught

1046
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:31,760
this process, but now they can,
you can basically just put them

1047
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,720
in a room together and say, hey,
do you guys want to do this

1048
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:35,600
conflict resolution?
And they can do it.

1049
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:39,640
They run their own town halls.
They get to vote on like things

1050
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,400
that they want to do in the
studio and like how they want to

1051
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,080
run the studio and they hold
each other accountable for

1052
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,080
adhering to those rules that
they have created as a group.

1053
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,720
And again, the, the adults are
there to like facilitate this,

1054
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:58,600
but they're not driving it.
So I know it sounds unusual, it

1055
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,080
is, but it is really awesome to
see it in action.

1056
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,440
And I've now been down to Austin
a couple times and been able to

1057
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,880
see some of the like this very
long term studio that now has

1058
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,520
kids that have been, you know,
through high school and into

1059
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,440
college.
And the young people that are,

1060
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,760
you know, 18 year olds, like
these kids are going to take

1061
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,200
over the world because they're
so it's not even just self

1062
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,440
driven.
They're just like so capable of

1063
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,280
doing things on their own
without needing to be told what

1064
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,280
to do.
And we need a world full of

1065
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,040
people that can be able to be,
to do things without being told

1066
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,320
what to do.
You know, robots can do a lot of

1067
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,480
those things that are going to
be, you know, so you know, we,

1068
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,400
we just need people that can
figure things out and not need

1069
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,000
to be so actively managed, if
that makes sense.

1070
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,480
Absolutely.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

1071
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,760
I mean, that's something I do
with my own child all the time.

1072
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,480
Like I'd, I'd very infrequently
give him the answer to anything.

1073
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,920
Like I, I, I tell my wife this
and all the time, like I, you

1074
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,240
know, I don't, I don't want to
raise someone that blindly

1075
00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:03,000
submits to authority like I
want.

1076
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,880
I want to create a problem
solver that like can navigate.

1077
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:08,480
I think it's interesting.
So then how does that go?

1078
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:13,960
Because there has to be this
delicate balance, right?

1079
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,120
Of like, where are the
guardrails?

1080
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:22,640
Where are the guardrails of like
might not work looking at it

1081
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,760
through my lens, but like just
take a generic student's lens

1082
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,280
and say someone doesn't like
math at all.

1083
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,120
A lot of people don't like math.
Where are the guardrails to say

1084
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:40,680
like, OK, explore this and learn
this, but but still evoke or

1085
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,400
create that sense of
self-guided?

1086
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,000
Well, it's, it's hard, you know,
and that's that's something that

1087
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:55,920
we don't really get fully thrown
into until we're adults, that we

1088
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,080
kind of have to be accountable
for our own work.

1089
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,920
Like nobody's nobody's really
holding you accountable after

1090
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,960
you're out of like high school,
I guess, you know, So there in

1091
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,320
some ways we have like a
tracking system that's much more

1092
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,040
detailed than like a public
school or just like a

1093
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,560
traditional school setting,
because everything is mastery

1094
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:13,960
based.
So all these platforms,

1095
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,600
everything that we're doing is
like you basically build a

1096
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,880
portfolio of everything at like
every single skill that they're

1097
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,040
learning and they have to
complete it.

1098
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,680
So, so we're tracking all of
that.

1099
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,640
So kids, So what happened to my
daughter?

1100
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,400
I'll just anecdote to give an
example of this.

1101
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,760
She had been doing really well
and was like 2 grades ahead,

1102
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,280
just kind of chugged along.
And then we went to her and we

1103
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:35,840
don't really pay that close
attention because she's doing

1104
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,080
great.
And like that's kind of also

1105
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:38,680
part of the philosophy is like
it's actually supposed to be

1106
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:39,960
pretty hands off from the
parents.

1107
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,680
Like because the kid, it's
really learner driven.

1108
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,040
It's not parent driven.
It's not, you know, adult

1109
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:46,040
driven.
It's supposed to be learner

1110
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,400
driven.
So we just try to be super hands

1111
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,640
off, especially because our kid
was doing fine, doing great.

1112
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,880
And then we went to her, her
like, what do you call it?

1113
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:57,280
Blanking on the word right now.
But her like student teacher.

1114
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,760
Yeah, it's we don't call it
that, but I'm just blanking on

1115
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,440
it right now.
Anyways, her conference at the

1116
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:05,680
end of the year and she's like
just totally fallen off the the

1117
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,680
trajectory.
And we were like, whoa, what

1118
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,720
happened?
Like you were like ahead and now

1119
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:12,440
you're behind.
You didn't finish your work.

1120
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,200
And we were like, OK, like what
happened here?

1121
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,120
And so we just had to like, kind
of figure out what was going on.

1122
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,120
And it was actually just that
she needed more manageable goals

1123
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:23,960
to like, set for herself.
She's like a little bit

1124
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,960
different goal setting system.
And so it's a messy process is

1125
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,760
my point.
And it, it's not perfect, but

1126
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:35,200
that's kind of the design is
that we want to bake in some

1127
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,040
failure like that.
So you learn that lesson like,

1128
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:39,720
oh, whoa, I didn't do any of my
work.

1129
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:41,520
And I have to like go into my
conference and like tell my

1130
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,000
parents and like finish the 2nd
grade, you know, like, I don't

1131
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,680
want to do that again.
So what am I going to do?

1132
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,720
And we all work together.
And that's why there are adults,

1133
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:53,000
of course, involved to help, you
know, be like, OK, what

1134
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,080
happened?
Let's figure out what's going on

1135
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:56,640
and like help you get back on
track.

1136
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:58,960
And she didn't, she's great Now
she's ahead again.

1137
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,440
You know, it's so it wasn't the
end of the world, but it was

1138
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,240
like really valuable for her to
learn that early on.

1139
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,160
And hopefully it probably will
happen again.

1140
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,920
Honestly, it probably will.
She'll probably have some other.

1141
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,240
And but we kind of like want
them to because when you learn

1142
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:15,760
that skill and then learn how to
overcome it much earlier on,

1143
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,200
you're going to be so much more
set up for life when inevitably

1144
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,440
challenges happen.
Like we want it to be messy.

1145
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,920
We want it to be hard.
And we want kids to have an

1146
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:31,280
opportunity to to fail safely
and in a way that isn't going to

1147
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,320
ruin their life by any stretch
of the imagination.

1148
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,280
Not even close.
But we want them to have that

1149
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,960
experience to learn how to
overcome it.

1150
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,600
And it's just not a big deal,
you know?

1151
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,640
Yeah, it's really cool concept.
I, I didn't do a ton of work

1152
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,160
prior, like looking into it, but
it's something that fascinates

1153
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,080
me.
Like obviously with everything I

1154
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,280
do in my life, like education is
a core, the tenet of what I do

1155
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:01,560
and I think it's fascinating.
I think you're spot on about

1156
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,680
creating problem solvers and
creating an environment where

1157
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:10,920
it's not this punitive
environment and a subject

1158
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,400
matter, a perceived subject
matter expert saying this is

1159
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,600
what you need to do.
Check, check, check, check,

1160
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,680
check.
Because like when I think about

1161
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:25,280
what I hear from all the way
from employers to just like

1162
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:29,480
general conversation, even with
other educators, they actually,

1163
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,640
it's a, it's a pretty common
topic with other educators about

1164
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,840
like the student just wants to
check the next box.

1165
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,680
And like, my immediate thought
is, of course they do.

1166
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:45,040
That's what we've had them do
since they've been doing.

1167
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,040
We've had them.
OK, here's.

1168
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,840
Your we told them that that's
what success is.

1169
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,240
Right.
And it's not at all.

1170
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,160
Not at.
All it's not at all because I

1171
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,120
mean there's a million different
things that you could give to

1172
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,640
that.
I mean, I was very successful

1173
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:04,320
academically in my formative
years, but I didn't learn any of

1174
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,720
the life things that were to
make decisions appropriately.

1175
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,520
Like sure, I, I could get a 30
or whatever on an ACT score, but

1176
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,200
I, I, what do I get today?
Like sitting in this chair right

1177
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,600
now, what do I get today, 10?
I don't know like like I can't

1178
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,520
do calculus anymore or anything
like that.

1179
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,800
You also don't need to.
Don't need to exactly.

1180
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,040
Was it worth it spending all
that time learning calculus for

1181
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,600
what you wanted to do in life?
I end up being a marketer.

1182
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,400
Arguably not, you know.
Yeah, yeah, probably not.

1183
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,680
And it's where it's a
fascinating question to me

1184
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,920
because there is no silver
bullet answer.

1185
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:47,960
Like of course there's value in
a diverse blend of sometimes a

1186
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,520
gentle nudge in a direction of
something that you don't think

1187
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,360
you have an interest in.
Of course there's a value in

1188
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,600
that.
At the same time, there isn't a

1189
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:02,080
lot of value in OK, these are
the check marks here.

1190
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,560
If you do this, you move on to
the next step.

1191
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,880
And I've got a colleague who
often talks about how the

1192
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,760
education system has aligned
somewhat with the gaming

1193
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:16,120
community and how the gaming
community rewards you for

1194
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,960
getting that next level of coins
or something like that.

1195
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:25,760
And you look at that on a grand
scale and you create.

1196
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:30,720
An entire Society of folks that
are looking for the next

1197
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:35,440
checkbox.
And then what happens after

1198
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,120
that?
It's like when you set goals in

1199
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,040
life, it's similar to that.
Like you set this next grandiose

1200
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,280
goal that you have and you're
like, oh, I just need to do this

1201
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:43,840
one.
Especially when you're young.

1202
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,800
I just need to do this one and
life is going to be so good.

1203
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,240
And then you reach your goal and
you're like the same person the

1204
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,360
next day when you wake up and
you're like, well shit, that's

1205
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:52,480
not it either.
Yeah.

1206
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,320
It's the same thing.
So I don't know.

1207
01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:01,440
I think it's, I like the thought
of pushing the boundaries and

1208
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,160
thinking about how something can
be looked at differently.

1209
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,400
You said six years in you are as
you're 5th year we're wrapping.

1210
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:14,760
Up our. 5th year.
OK, So five years in now, where

1211
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:20,840
are you at compared to when you
started it as far as like your

1212
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:28,880
awareness of the situation,
you're I guess perceived, you

1213
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,960
know, successes and failures,
Where, where are you at with

1214
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,000
like five years in?
What are you seeing and what's

1215
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,200
next?
Well, when we started, we really

1216
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:42,000
only had like four or five year
olds like so the literally the

1217
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,840
kids have just gotten older.
So that probably has just been

1218
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,160
the biggest change is that with
the aging up of our students,

1219
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,640
they're able to be much more
independent and like we're able

1220
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,600
to do a lot more things with
them because they can be much

1221
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:59,160
more responsible for, you know,
just managing themselves.

1222
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,040
So that's kind of been the
biggest thing I would say just

1223
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:02,920
generally.
And that's been really cool to

1224
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:04,240
watch.
And my daughter is one of them.

1225
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,040
She's one of the older students
at the school.

1226
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,520
There's a few other older kids,
but like she's kind of on that.

1227
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,120
She was one of the first kids in
that first year.

1228
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,280
So it's been fun to just see
them become more and more

1229
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,320
independent with it and just
like what they're able to do,

1230
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,760
you know, it's like I'm just
always really impressed when I

1231
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,080
go.
So we there it's also kind of

1232
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:23,760
project based.
So every six weeks they have

1233
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:25,640
they have like a project that
they're focusing on.

1234
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,280
And then at the end of that six
weeks they do an exhibition.

1235
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:32,880
So like a lot of schools focus
just on like sports and maybe

1236
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,720
music, but there's not like a
lot of other places for kids to

1237
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,520
like showcase what they're
working on or just like what

1238
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,640
their talents are, because not
everybody is talented in music

1239
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,080
or sports.
Like there's so much more to

1240
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:42,320
life.
Most of us are not going to work

1241
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,280
in music and sports.
And so we let you know, every,

1242
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,240
you know, quest is like a
totally different thing that

1243
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,200
they're focusing on.
Like they just did entomology.

1244
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,400
So they, you know, did a whole
thing about bugs.

1245
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,160
We, we have gardens and
chickens.

1246
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,840
So we often are doing things
with outdoors and farming and

1247
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,320
stuff like that.
Like 1 quest, they all learned

1248
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:01,880
how to play chess and they had a
chess tournament.

1249
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:03,240
Like we do all kinds of
different things.

1250
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,920
You know, they, it's like all
over the next one they're doing

1251
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:07,480
right now.
We once a year we do like an

1252
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,440
entrepreneurial quest.
So they have to do like a little

1253
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,800
this time the younger kids are
doing lemonade stand and they're

1254
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,160
going to have a whole, you know,
profit thing for that.

1255
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:19,680
And so it's, it's really neat to
see how those have gotten better

1256
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,000
and better.
And just like how more

1257
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,440
impressive they are, they they
also present it.

1258
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,840
So like just they're all public
speaking all the time and

1259
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,440
they're nine and they're like
doing a really excellent job.

1260
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:30,640
You know, a lot of people are
afraid to public speak as

1261
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,240
adults, but like, we're teaching
that skills to these kids and

1262
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:34,840
some of them are more
comfortable with others, but

1263
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,480
we're really trying to encourage
kids to take that challenge on

1264
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,240
young.
So they just like kind of get

1265
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:40,680
used to that.
And it's like not a big deal.

1266
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:41,680
It's just like part of what they
do.

1267
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,000
So yeah, that's been
interesting.

1268
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,040
The other thing that I have
learned, and we we knew this

1269
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,840
going in and Laura Sandifer, the
brilliant founder of the

1270
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,160
original Acton, she will say
this too.

1271
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,920
It's like, I don't believe that
there's an educational model

1272
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,320
that works for everybody.
That's part of the problem with

1273
01:03:58,320 --> 01:03:59,880
the system.
It's kind of there really only

1274
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:02,920
is one option.
And like we don't all there's

1275
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,880
way more than one option for
like career choices.

1276
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,080
Like we all know that our
natural abilities are not all

1277
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:12,120
defined by test scores.
And that's, but that's like what

1278
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:16,720
we've chosen to like decide is,
is success for kids, leaving out

1279
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:20,000
a whole lot of other kids, often
focusing on some of the wrong

1280
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,560
things subject matter wise.
We don't need to be memorizing

1281
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,040
things anymore.
Like we should just never do

1282
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:25,800
that again.
We all have Google in our

1283
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,120
pockets these days, like skip
doing that.

1284
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,560
We need to all have a foundation
of literacy.

1285
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:32,200
We need to all have a foundation
of math.

1286
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,840
But like, otherwise, we need to
let kids start to develop their

1287
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:40,280
own personal skills.
And like, I feel that's been a

1288
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,200
really interesting thing to see
happen with these kids.

1289
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,640
But my point is that like, it
doesn't work for everybody, I

1290
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,440
will say, and more importantly,
it doesn't work for every family

1291
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,480
because not every family can
accept the messiness and the

1292
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,120
challenge of this process.
And that's OK.

1293
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,520
We're not for everybody.
We can't, we like, we can't be.

1294
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,520
But I don't think that there is
any school that is for everybody

1295
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,040
and will work for every child.
So I think you got to find what

1296
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,920
works best for your kids like we
all do.

1297
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,000
And we are just happy to have a
different option.

1298
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,600
And I, it's working great for my
kids.

1299
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:14,760
I think it can work for a lot.
It works great for a lot of kids

1300
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,240
that the traditional system
doesn't work for a myriad of

1301
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,240
reasons, but like it, it just
doesn't work for everyone.

1302
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,320
And we had to be OK with that
being uncomfortable at times

1303
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,240
that we have to say like this
isn't working and we've had to

1304
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,920
exit families or families have
left because it's not working

1305
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,960
for them for whatever reason.
And that that's hard.

1306
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,400
But that has been a very
valuable lesson.

1307
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:37,240
Absolutely.
Yeah.

1308
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:39,960
Two things.
One, they're called quests.

1309
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:41,000
Yeah.
That's awesome.

1310
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,360
And it's basically like they're
projects, but yeah, we call them

1311
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:44,040
a quest.
Yeah.

1312
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,080
So a lot of this is based on the
hero's journey.

1313
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:48,920
So we we really talk about the
hero's journey.

1314
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,640
So you're on your, your quest
for finding your purpose in

1315
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:54,600
life, you know, find a calling,
change the world.

1316
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:55,720
That's what we always talk
about.

1317
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,200
And that can be anything, you
know, So we we talk about, you

1318
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:00,720
know that a lot.
So we call it a quest.

1319
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,600
That I absolutely love that.
That is really cool.

1320
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:13,800
Secondly, I see some pockets of
K12 embracing this concept,

1321
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,720
which is cool because I
completely agree.

1322
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:21,440
There's not A1 size fits all.
This is how you're going to

1323
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,600
learn person, you know this is
how you person are going to

1324
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,800
learn.
I should say it's a that's a

1325
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,800
pipe dream.
Like humans are so inherently

1326
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,680
different.
When I think of the I mean the

1327
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:35,960
differences.
It's what the contrast between

1328
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,160
my wife and I is a prime example
of this.

1329
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:44,720
We're two polar opposites.
People learning wise how we

1330
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:50,320
digest things and rationalize
and learn and grow couldn't be

1331
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,080
different.
Both went through the same

1332
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,080
school system with different
layers of success in different

1333
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:01,560
in different ways.
And I hope that a path gets

1334
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,520
laid, continues to get laid,
because like I said, I do see

1335
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:10,080
some K12 making some steps in
this realm where our passionate

1336
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:17,480
educators can have a little bit
more autonomy and free reins do

1337
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,360
it.
Because I think a lot of times

1338
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:26,040
we see things get hamstrung by,
oh, this needs to happen in this

1339
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,720
way, blah, blah, blah.
And I think there's a lot of

1340
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:35,480
value in a quest, you know, to,
for lack of a better term at the

1341
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:37,760
moment in quests are on my mind
because I think that's awesome.

1342
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,600
But there, there's a lot of
value in that.

1343
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:45,280
There's a lot of value in
choosing, you know, as a parent,

1344
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,360
at least until they age out.
You know your child better than

1345
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:56,280
anybody and you know, you're in
the place to say, Oh yeah, this

1346
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,080
will probably work.
And I know that of course life

1347
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,200
isn't perfect like that.
There's a lot of families that

1348
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,480
aren't in the position to make
that decision.

1349
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:10,040
All of that stuff, totally.
But at the same time, they the

1350
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:14,920
option is cool to see blossoming
because when I refer back to

1351
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:19,160
like when when I was young and
going through the K12 system,

1352
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:25,160
option rarely happened.
Like even in I hear students

1353
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:29,520
like having the so now students
that I get at the, you know,

1354
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:34,240
graduate above high school
level, they talk about like, you

1355
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:35,960
know, electives they were given
and stuff.

1356
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,600
I didn't get an elective when I
was in high school.

1357
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:42,319
I got told my schedule and then
I marched to class and I went

1358
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:44,000
there.
And then sure, I could pick if I

1359
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:49,080
wanted to do calculus or
trigonometry, but I needed X

1360
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:50,359
amount of math credits, you
know?

1361
01:08:50,359 --> 01:08:51,800
Yeah.
So I don't know.

1362
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:55,000
I think it's awesome.
I think, I think I don't know

1363
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:59,439
any way we can look at learning
holistically and differently is

1364
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,319
really good.
And it's cool that it was

1365
01:09:01,319 --> 01:09:04,040
seemingly motivated just from
like you want from your own

1366
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,800
children to have an environment
where they would succeed in and

1367
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,399
given they don't know anything
different, but you would like

1368
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:12,359
they have they enjoy what
they're doing.

1369
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:14,240
They.
Love it, the kids.

1370
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:17,080
That is almost universal.
I mean, I guess maybe I can

1371
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:18,640
think of one or two kids who
haven't loved it.

1372
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,439
But the kids at our school love
school.

1373
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,600
They love being at school.
They, like I told you, they get

1374
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,000
to kind of like vote on their
own rewards and stuff.

1375
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,439
So often they'll vote for like
forever.

1376
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:30,800
They wanted to have a sleepover
at the school.

1377
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,720
They don't want to leave.
And so we did do that once we

1378
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,240
camped out in the backyard.
That was, I don't think we'll do

1379
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,479
that again.
The parents, the kids loved it.

1380
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,399
The parents were like, Oh my
gosh, I'm sleeping in this tent

1381
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,560
in the whatever.
But the kids love school.

1382
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,760
They love being there.
They, and that's the most

1383
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,040
important thing.
If you can get your kid to love

1384
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,520
learning and love being in their
learning environment, like

1385
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,080
that's the biggest struggle and
like want to go to school every

1386
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:01,480
day and these kids love school.
So how does it work with like I

1387
01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:04,960
don't, I'm not familiar enough
to know, but like how does it

1388
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,840
work with like the standard
standardized schedule?

1389
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,480
Like do they still have to take
all those tests and stuff?

1390
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:12,720
So we do the Iowa basics every
year.

1391
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:14,920
We just did them like 2 weeks
ago.

1392
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,800
So we do that.
But that's like, I mean there.

1393
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:21,760
So there are some things that we
do that are, I guess traditional

1394
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,760
or or whatever, like to adhere
to if, if a kid does transfer

1395
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:27,520
out or whatever, like we can
send them records.

1396
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,360
We, you know, we take
attendance, you know, just some

1397
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:33,440
of the foundations of education,
I guess.

1398
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,840
But other than we do the Iowa
basics once a year, but that's

1399
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,040
like about the only like real
standardized thing that we do.

1400
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,000
OK, so then what about how does
it work when they age to the

1401
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,520
point where they like start
applying to colleges and stuff?

1402
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:48,480
How does that affect it?
So we can translate their.

1403
01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:52,240
So everything is mastery based,
which is not, it's not unique to

1404
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,080
ACT and there's a lot of schools
that are moving to a mastery

1405
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,520
method.
So there's a way to basically

1406
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,360
it's kind of great because you
have a whole portfolio,

1407
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:02,720
everything that they've done
instead of getting this like

1408
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,160
somewhat arbitrary grade in this
like, OK, I took calc, I got AB.

1409
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,240
What does that mean exactly?
Like what did they actually

1410
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,560
where ours is like totally
broken down on like every single

1411
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,560
skill that they have learned and
mastered.

1412
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:17,600
So we have like a whole
portfolio that they can take,

1413
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:20,680
but then we can translate that
into a traditional transcript.

1414
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:22,160
Got it.
OK.

1415
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,000
And we have, I mean we've done
we, we can send that those

1416
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,040
records off, but I think some of
those transcripts are evolving

1417
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,480
too, especially like at the
collegiate level people are

1418
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,360
they're sort of changing their
application processes.

1419
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,240
You know, for a while some
schools weren't like really even

1420
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,560
taking SITS or I TS like that is
that is going to look so

1421
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,040
different like if even I think
510 years from now.

1422
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,320
But basically what we are able
to provide is like way more

1423
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,800
information than they need.
But if we need to back it out

1424
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:49,040
and just like give them like the
bare minimum, that's we can do

1425
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:50,680
that.
Everything is going to look

1426
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,800
different five years from with
AI like.

1427
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:54,200
It.
Needs to AI is going to

1428
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,960
completely change everything we
do in life like you mentioned

1429
01:11:57,960 --> 01:11:59,920
earlier, like we have answers in
our pocket.

1430
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:03,320
Why are we memorizing things
absolutely not worth our time

1431
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:08,680
and AI is going to take another
level of that of so I'm

1432
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,200
obviously a little bit biased
towards marketing that's my

1433
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,960
area.
And I hear one of the kind of

1434
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:18,080
themes that I really enjoy
around marketing right now is

1435
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:26,240
that the the act or the strategy
of marketing will remain

1436
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,160
unchanged even with AI, because
you still need to know the

1437
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:30,240
things you were talking about
earlier.

1438
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,920
You need to know who your
audience is and why they want to

1439
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:34,120
connect with you and all that
stuff.

1440
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:41,800
But you know, the will somebody
need to be able to be a really

1441
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,680
good at writing copy for social
media posts?

1442
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:49,920
Yeah, I'll probably do that for
you eventually, will it?

1443
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:53,640
You know, But you'll still need
to humanize it, I think.

1444
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:54,960
And.
I think there's still something

1445
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,240
to be said about like putting
your voice to it.

1446
01:12:57,440 --> 01:13:00,480
And AI cannot convey emotion the
way that humans do.

1447
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,360
And even if it's not
grammatically perfect or just,

1448
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:05,720
you know, as polished, like I
think that there is like the

1449
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:09,440
rawness and the realness is I
think going to still be

1450
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,200
important and have value, you
know?

1451
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:18,520
The the human aspect of it, I
hope does you know at funny I

1452
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,040
for the podcast like 2 months
ago.

1453
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:24,080
It's amazing the leaps how
quickly happens.

1454
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:27,400
But like 2 months ago I put in
one of the video making ones.

1455
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:31,920
I was like make an Instagram
video that will go viral about

1456
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:35,600
Wisconsin going to Wisconsin and
it completely missed the 8 ball.

1457
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:40,480
It was this it was this dude
dressed in like like a German

1458
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:44,840
outfit with with beers and there
was a fish fry and like

1459
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:46,600
completely missed the block on
it.

1460
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,600
I'm going to Fast forward
probably, you know, 12 months

1461
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,000
and do it again next year and
see what the same thing does

1462
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,040
next year.
But I guess to circle that into

1463
01:13:55,200 --> 01:14:01,040
a thought or a point, the I
think we need to somehow keep

1464
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,800
the human aspect because if we
don't, that's when it gets

1465
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,160
scary.
Like that's when you don't know

1466
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:10,120
when the lines are blurred
between those two things, that

1467
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:12,360
gets scary.
So within the next five years,

1468
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,160
it's going to be interesting to
see how we come up with like,

1469
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,760
how is that labeled online?
How is that labeled?

1470
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:22,040
Does this say AI generated in
big bold letters?

1471
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:25,960
And is it guaranteed?
I mean, it's kind of the same

1472
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:28,720
with like social media and just
how filtered and fake everything

1473
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,760
is on there and like the damage
that is being done by being fed

1474
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:35,880
stuff that's not really real.
And your brain starts to like

1475
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:39,000
lose its ability to discern the
difference.

1476
01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:43,480
And I agree, it's really scary.
And again, one of the reasons

1477
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:48,200
why I think that music and the
arts in the way that frankly,

1478
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,320
I'm doing them are always going
to have a place because like,

1479
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,960
you can't fake that.
Like you can't fake people up on

1480
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,560
stage performing and like
connecting with like live people

1481
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,360
in a live space.
But there's so much now that you

1482
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:02,400
can do, you know, on the
computer that is, it's hard to

1483
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,080
tell sometimes what's real and
what's not.

1484
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:06,120
I was just at an acting
conference and they were talking

1485
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:09,200
about, you know, everybody now
is writing, using AI to write

1486
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,520
their papers, you know, or using
ChatGPT and stuff.

1487
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,440
And now, like the professors are
like using it to grade.

1488
01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:18,520
And it's just like, Oh my gosh,
like, you know, I went through,

1489
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:21,680
you know, 2 1/2 rounds of
master's degree.

1490
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:22,960
You know, it's like I wrote so
many papers.

1491
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,160
I can't even imagine.
Like you are so careful not to

1492
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,360
plagiarize.
Like I can't even fathom like

1493
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:32,360
just plugging it into ChatGPT
and like using it like that.

1494
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:36,400
It didn't exist.
But I just it seems so I mean

1495
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,320
wrong or just yeah.
It's unnatural.

1496
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:41,720
Certainly.
It's unnatural.

1497
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:42,120
Yeah.
Yeah.

1498
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:45,640
And it's it's so.
Unethical in a lot of ways, but

1499
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,920
but at the same time, a lot of
people are using it.

1500
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:50,160
And I mean, I'm just saying that
all the usage is unethical, but

1501
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,920
there's like so much of it that
just feels wrong.

1502
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,120
Oh no.
See, that's such an interesting

1503
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:59,800
topic though, because like,
rewind 25 years and there were

1504
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,280
probably people sitting across
the table like this saying you

1505
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:04,840
can just Google everything and
you don't have to go to an

1506
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:06,560
encyclopedia.
Yeah, for sure.

1507
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:11,720
Yeah, You know, it's, it's one
of those things that it's like

1508
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,920
Pandora's box.
It's it's open, it's available,

1509
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,920
it's going to change society
and.

1510
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:19,840
It's happening.
You can't stop it.

1511
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:22,160
It's going to be about how we
hang on for the ride.

1512
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:23,840
So here's a great example of
this.

1513
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:30,360
When I, I had to, in, in the job
interview process, I had to put

1514
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,960
together how I would
hypothetically market a new

1515
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,520
restaurant relevant to you.
How would I market a new

1516
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:41,960
restaurant in a community?
And throughout this process, I

1517
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:44,280
did it, you know, I, I rocked
this whole thing.

1518
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:48,320
I gave a presentation about that
I worked on for 10 hours about

1519
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:52,240
every step I would take to
market a new restaurant, went

1520
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,160
through the interview, got the
job and everything.

1521
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,360
And then one of my colleagues
that would would be my colleague

1522
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:01,160
in the new role had it was
fledgling right when AI was

1523
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:05,000
getting started and she had put
it into AI like 5 minutes.

1524
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:09,240
It spit out the entire thing
that I did of a lifetime of

1525
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:11,560
work.
But being a marketer, like the

1526
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,080
knowledge was in my head in 5
minutes.

1527
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:16,640
It was like, this is the
systematic process.

1528
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,040
It was everything I did.
It's crazy.

1529
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:23,280
And that was, and that was
almost three years ago now.

1530
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:25,480
And AI is in a completely
different place now.

1531
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:29,600
So it's going to be weird to see
and evolve, and specifically

1532
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:31,360
with education.
That's where I'm thinking of it

1533
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:34,360
feeling so wrong and and you're
right.

1534
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:35,600
I mean, it's going to, it's
happening.

1535
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:37,720
It's and it's going to be used.
So I guess now we just have to

1536
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:43,040
figure out how it can be used in
a way that is still, it's not

1537
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:46,160
just making kids do no work.
They have to.

1538
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:47,880
The work is gonna change, I
guess.

1539
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:49,040
So maybe that's where it needs
to.

1540
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:50,480
We need to figure out the space
for that.

1541
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:52,160
I don't have an answer for that,
but it just it's I.

1542
01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:54,040
Don't think anybody does the
cool thing.

1543
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,840
The cool thing about it though
is that building on the concepts

1544
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:02,280
that you were talking about, it
takes a curious problem solver

1545
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:07,120
to use AI correctly to get to
the end goal.

1546
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:10,080
Because I mean a good example, I
tried saving a bunch of time

1547
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:15,320
with my podcast and I bought
this like membership thing to a

1548
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:18,600
tool that cuts AI shorts for
social media out of it.

1549
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:22,320
I still end up redoing them all
anyway because it's like it

1550
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:24,440
doesn't have the human touch you
were talking about.

1551
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:29,520
And it might get there, probably
will get there, but then what

1552
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,360
will the next hurdle be that I
have to overcome?

1553
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,240
Because if I didn't diagnose
that in the beginning and I just

1554
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:38,440
started posting trash, then it
doesn't work, you know?

1555
01:18:38,440 --> 01:18:43,920
So like the curious problem
solver has to navigate with it

1556
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:48,800
as opposed to using it.
You know what I mean?

1557
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,720
That's a weird way to put it,
but I could talk about that all

1558
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:53,120
day.
That's why I saved it to the end

1559
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:56,360
of the episode, because I knew I
knew myself personally.

1560
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,440
We would get down the rabbit
hole of education, but what a

1561
01:18:58,440 --> 01:19:05,920
cool endeavor to just be
comfortable going again, sewing

1562
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:09,640
upstream, you know?
I love being outside the box and

1563
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,400
I think that is a challenge we
can just like pose to everybody.

1564
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,000
It's like being getting
comfortable with being

1565
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,920
uncomfortable, not knowing the
answer, just figuring things

1566
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:19,680
out.
And if we can teach that to

1567
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:21,920
young people, I think that
ultimately is gonna what's gonna

1568
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:26,040
help serve them in the future of
our very rapidly changing world.

1569
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:29,640
Yeah, definitely like leaving
being a nurse and buying a

1570
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:30,400
business.
It's.

1571
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,160
Uncomfortable.
But if you can get on, if you

1572
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:35,240
know, you hear lots of people
say that you can get comfortable

1573
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:38,360
with the discomfort, that is a
really valuable skill.

1574
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,280
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's a great way.

1575
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:41,480
That's a great point to end it
on.

1576
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:44,040
Thanks for coming in.
I appreciate chatting with you,

1577
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:47,160
hearing some of your story.
Good luck with all the different

1578
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,200
things you have going on.
Take care.

1579
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:50,080
Thank.
You.