Austin Skalecki - Songwriting, Letting IT Happen & Doing it Until He Dies - Episode #66

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What's up friends, Welcome back
to Root of Wisconsin.

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Appreciate you for clicking
another episode.

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Grateful to have you here.
Today's episode was with Austin

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Skalecki, singer-songwriter,
musician who resides in Door

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County, grew up in Appleton and
is doing the music thing.

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Awesome dude, awesome
conversation.

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Really reflective and reflective
of him too.

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I have listened to Austin's
music but it was the first time

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meeting and just a great
conversation about his journey

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to being a musician.
But also really in depth

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insights about songwriting and
really the human element of

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music is Wisconsin roots and
connection, traveling the

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country, being a musician and
much much more.

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As always, a huge out shout out
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Without further ado, let's get
into it.

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Austin Skalecki.
this.

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Austin Segalecki, what's up,
man?

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Did I say it?
Right, Skalecki, Skalecki.

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Yeah, yeah, it's a tough one,
but.

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What's up, man?
Not a whole lot, dude.

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It's just I'm enjoying the day.
Yeah, I woke up, the sun was

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shining and I think it's, I
think that's all it really

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matters.
This time of year it's that's

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big man.
I, I yearn for sun actually

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before the 1st guest today I
spent some time just the the

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like you saw the windows when
you came in.

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I just like stood there and just
let the sun beat on my face like

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when it gets to like February, I
just yearn for sun like I love

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winter yeah.
I, I like cold weather.

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I love the reset.
I like not having to mow the

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lawn and like, there's a lot of
life tasks that go away in the

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winter, but the one thing that I
just yearn for as winter drags

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on is just sunshine on my skin.
Yeah, that it brings, it brings

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the mood up in every single way.
It gives you more energy.

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There's a lot to be said about
it.

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It's like we're like being a
plant, you know?

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Yeah, for real.
I think, man, I think there's we

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could probably find a rabbit
hole there.

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Like, there's a lot of
connections of just like, like,

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I, I obviously it's necessary
for our health, like with

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vitamin D and everything like
that, but there's more to it,

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man.
Like there's a reason our bodies

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yearn for it when we're huddled
up for the winter for four

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months and have coats on and no
sun.

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Yeah, we're all, we're all
natural, just nature.

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It's just we're humans, but
we're all one with everything

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around us, I think.
Yeah, man.

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Yeah.
Well, thanks for stopping in on

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on the way to a show tonight.
On the way to a show.

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Yeah, this is a, it works out
really well.

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So heading to Stevens Point, as
I was saying earlier, just

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stopped in with my buddy Rex
over at Dorborn and is the first

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one I saw on the podcast here.
So and we connected through that

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and that's kind of a big full
circle day.

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Yeah, dude, absolutely.
I'm pumped up to chat.

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What?
Start there, man.

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What?
What got you into music?

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What got me into it?
Well, the guitar, you know, I, I

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started out as a just a guitar
player for the longest time and

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more recently within the last, I
don't know, 5-6 years, I'd say I

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started writing my own songs.
And you know, I felt like I've

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always wanted to be a part of
music and I want to do this

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until I, until I die, you know,
I want to do this everyday and

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it's what I truly love.
And, and so writing songs, I

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figured, you know, was the only
way I could continue to do that

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until I die.
You know, it's like I, that's

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the thing that moves me forward.
You know, it's like if I were to

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play other music all the time
that wasn't my own.

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The thing that really drives me
is, you know, creating community

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and finding stories along the
way and all these towns, small

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towns and people I'll never see
again.

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You know, maybe maybe you
stumble into a little dive bar

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or something in the middle of
Nevada and it's like no place

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you ever seen, you know, there's
and he gets talking to somebody

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and then I get to share that
story and move it along to the

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next town.
And I find that to be really my

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my biggest mission and the thing
that keeps me moving forward.

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So I guess it's developed
throughout the years, you know,

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since the start, more just like
focus on playing guitar.

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I love the Guns and Roses, you
know, and now I'm more into like

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Jerry Jeff and Park and stuff
like that.

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So.
Used to play some electric.

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Yeah, that's how I started so.
Were you gigging as just a

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guitarist?
Yeah, I was gigging since I was

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about 15 years old.
I was in all those high school,

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high school bands.
And yeah, it's cool.

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We did covers, but we also had
some original stuff from the

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beginning.
Nothing that I was in on writing

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necessarily.
I mean, I wrote a guitar solo

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for one of them, so that was
cool.

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But yeah, yeah, that's kind of
my first glimpse.

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So right away, I guess you could
say it was starting to do some

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our own music.
So when did that?

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When did that switch man?
When like what happened first?

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Was it you started writing and
then you got into the

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songwriters or did you get into
the songwriters music and be

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like, Dang, I want to make, this
is the kind of jams I want to

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do?
Yeah, I guess, you know, it kind

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of laid over with.
I've always, I've always loved

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the creative process.
Like even though when it was

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just guitar player, I was like,
how does how does Slash come up

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with these things?
And then I started getting into

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improvising and understanding
that of how he's playing the

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guitar a little bit more.
And then I was like, OK, well, I

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could do this.
Lyrically, I've always loved

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guys like Johnny Cash and stuff.
And I remember for the longest

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time I'd in like Senior High
School, I'd be sitting in my

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basement and I'd watched that
movie Walk the Line every single

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day of Senior Yard.
And, you know, and I'd listened

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to the Live at Folsom Prison
record.

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And I found that how he was
writing songs that really

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intrigued me, getting back to
the roots of the music.

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And at the start of it all, I
remember listening to to music

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and hearing the words.
And so then I, I guess so since

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that point started developing
into, you know, writing lyrics

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and telling stories again.
And I want to say that was a big

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pivotal point in it all.
It was a reconnecting with the

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whole thing.
And, you know, it's now I get to

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do it as I grow up.
And so that's, that's a really

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cool thing about is I'm looking
back at stuff I did five years

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ago, like, wow, that was an
interesting point of life.

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Yeah.
And it's totally different now.

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And I think that's the the
really cool part of writing

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songs is now it's kind of like a
time stamp.

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It's like journaling every day
in his own sense.

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Absolutely, man.
I remember right when you

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reached out after you'd saw
you'd seen Rex's episode, I

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checked out some of your stuff
at that time.

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And like a, a pivotal piece in
all of your like public facing

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stuff is the storytelling aspect
of, of songwriting.

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And that's like, that's what I
listen to musically, man.

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Like like that's why I go to
music.

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So I play guitar too, but it's
never like, it's never about the

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best solo for me.
It's never about like the, it's

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never about the actual like the
physical music, the instrumental

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music.
It's about the emotion and the

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time stamp and the, the
conviction that people use with

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the written word.
It, it's what keeps me coming.

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Like there's a children's record
on here right now.

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Like I listen to people that
like, put that intention on

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their music and like, you can
feel it.

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And I, I don't know, that's what
moves me musically.

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And I, I know that like that's
not everybody's taste, but

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that's what draws me into your
stuff.

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And is, is that like that
storytelling piece of it?

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How, how and why is that central
to, to what you do?

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How'd you like decide that that
was a focus area?

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Oh, well, I felt like that was,
you know, I, I guess to the

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point of your saying is like
that, you know, that's what you

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connected with.
I've always connected with

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those, the storytelling.
I always thought, you know, I

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wasn't, I'm not out here trying
to be the best singer or the

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best guitar player, although I
want to be good at them, but I'm

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not trying to be the best at
that.

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I want to be a good songwriter.
Yeah.

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I want to connect with people on
that level.

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That's really what drives me.
And a really cool thing that I

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noticed was, you know, towns.
And one of the first towns that

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I really connected with and
wrote a song about was

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Trempello.
And, you know, going back to

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that place, ever since I wrote
that song, you know, there's

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something really special about
that.

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And I noticed the the community
we have built around it and, you

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know, and I didn't like try to
do that.

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It just happened.
I just wrote a song about it

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because it was connecting with
me.

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You know, I did it about Dork
County to, you know, a dozen

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another place to just really
touch my soul.

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So, and, you know, now we all
get to share this with and it,

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it goes beyond me when it, when
it comes to lyrics and it's like

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everybody is connecting and
that's, that's all about music

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is like it's a shared
experience.

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You know, even though I'm in the
band, so is the audience,

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they're also in the band in
their own way.

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So I, I really enjoy that, that
connected piece.

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But you know, it's the part that
really drives me is, you know,

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having that that idea to share
something that's a little unique

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and moving it on in the next
place and me going.

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Yeah, that that's the same
outlet I search for.

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That's why I started the
podcast, man.

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The podcast is all about
connecting communities and and

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just humans because like we live
in this 15 second like culture

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that like we develop all of our
perceptions on this like glimpse

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of overall life, man.
And I mean, in some ways a song

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is that, but it's not because I
think it's really interesting to

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hear you say that the audience
is in some way in the band.

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I've never thought about it like
that, But like each person is

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telling their own story in their
mind with the story that you

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told, and it's going to be
unique to every single person.

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Yeah, and that's something too.
It's like everybody interprets

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it in their own way, so.
And, you know, you write a song

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as the writer in one way, but
someone else is going to totally

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put a spin on it that you might,
you know, you never interpreted

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for or it to be that way.
It's happened once.

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I don't remember the exact thing
somebody said to me, but, you

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know, they asked me if I was
like, I don't know, it's like a

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socialist or something.
I was like, I don't know, I

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didn't think so.
Odd.

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It's just I just wrote it was it
was an early song.

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It was like when I wrote called
Poor Man off of my first EP

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ever.
But yeah.

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And my, my whole intent was, you
know, understanding what, what

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life was about, like just the
basic nest of things.

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And you can see that in anybody.
So it's like, you know,

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everybody's got something to
share.

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So I'm always about that.
You know, just talk to whoever.

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I think everybody's got
something of value that they can

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share with you and, you know,
find that and everybody you can

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talk to and you know, so go out
of your way to do that.

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Go talk to the the dude who's
who's playing guitar on street

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corner, you know, or just random
person that's sitting next to

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00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,120
you.
Yeah, I, I love sparking

223
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,000
conversation with people, you
know what they got to say.

224
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,120
So, but yeah, anyways, I wrote
that, wrote that song and

225
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,000
somebody said something along
the lines and but that was the

226
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,520
idea of like, you know, it's
totally not what I interpreted

227
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,040
the song.
Yeah, that was that was

228
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:25,600
interesting.
I.

229
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:27,200
Thought you know what's cool
about that, though, is like

230
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,560
that's almost like in in your
genre, man, that's like a

231
00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,960
feather in the cap or especially
early on like that to have

232
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,920
someone perceiving your things
in that way, because that's a

233
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,560
that's a pretty common narrative
in your genre.

234
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:45,680
What, whether it's accurate or
not, that means that you are

235
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,040
hitting that same nerve like I,
I would have, I would have taken

236
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,640
that as an extreme compliment,
whether it was an accurate

237
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,560
depiction or not.
You know, that's a that's a good

238
00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:57,800
thing.
Do you get into you watch Jesse

239
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,640
Wells's stuff at all?
Yeah, yeah.

240
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,120
See him quite a bit.
He's always popping.

241
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,840
He's getting big now.
Yeah, he's, he's huge.

242
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,080
Yeah, but like the same thing,
you know, like often times.

243
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,000
And that's part of that thing,
right?

244
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,720
It's like meaningful stuff.
We want to put it in a box, but

245
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,720
it it doesn't, it doesn't have
to be that box.

246
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,480
That was that receiver's box
when you sent the message, like

247
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,080
that individual person that
asked you that, that's how they

248
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,360
received it.
But I think at a grander level

249
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,040
and why I think it's a
compliment and why I love your

250
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:39,880
genre of music so much, is that
it doesn't fit in that box, a

251
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,480
box.
It's not one specific thing.

252
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,400
It's like you just wrote
something that means something,

253
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,760
and then however what one person
takes it, sure, it like Jesse's

254
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,920
doing stuff that's very directly
political, but even when it's

255
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,800
not like people throughout the
course of history that have

256
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,760
walked that that path of folk
singer-songwriter, they get

257
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,880
placed in these ideological
boxes that I don't think they

258
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,880
always chose.
No, they always intend for.

259
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,080
It, yeah, it's the words, it's
the story in the message that

260
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,240
resonates.
So that's cool.

261
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,840
Man, that's a feather in the
cap, I think.

262
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,480
Yeah, it was, it was an
interesting, but I mean, like

263
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,520
there's, there's things in even
like beyond the interpretation.

264
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,080
Sometimes I'm noticing with the
with the music, like people feel

265
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,560
like they have a connection with
you that you never talked to

266
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,840
before.
Like they they feel like they're

267
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,880
your best friend and then they
tell you like some really deep

268
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,000
secrets.
So like, maybe I didn't want to

269
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,120
hear that or like, why are you,
why are you telling me that, you

270
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,600
know?
So yeah, there's some

271
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,000
interesting stuff that comes
along with it sometimes.

272
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,280
But I, I like it.
It's, it's a, it's a unique path

273
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:49,400
of life.
Yeah.

274
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,680
And you get some interesting
things that happen.

275
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,160
Connection, connection like that
in life, I think is super

276
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,520
important because that that's
when you get down to the talking

277
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:05,800
about things that mean something
and, and like connection in a

278
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:10,800
way that is deeply ingrained as
opposed to like, you know,

279
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,880
there's someone in your
neighborhood that you know, when

280
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,000
you're cordial with and they
seem super nice, but you never

281
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,040
talk about things that matter.
You know, you talk about, you

282
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,960
know, how was your vacation or
what's the weather?

283
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,680
What's this, what's that?
But I don't know, it kind of

284
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,200
breaks down that wall.
Yeah, I agree with that.

285
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,760
I'm kind of beyond all those
conversations as much as I can.

286
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,760
I like to get into the, you
know, let's, let's just talk

287
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,480
about like the, the
uncomfortable stuff, like right

288
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,760
away, you know?
Yeah, let's let's get into it.

289
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,840
Yeah, absolutely.
It's fun to break get out of

290
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,120
that zone for people and get
them to go loose them up right

291
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,480
away.
Like just yeah, do it beyond

292
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,000
that surface level.
Just start and I I always like

293
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,400
to ask people weird questions
sometimes right off the RIP.

294
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,320
One of my favorite ones that I
learned I was.

295
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,040
Going to say lay one on I'll.
Go well, you know, like if

296
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,680
you're meeting somebody out and
you never talked to him before

297
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,360
and you know, a lot of people
will ask, you know what, what

298
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,560
is, what is your name, where
you're from?

299
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,560
I just, I don't know.
Those are boring questions.

300
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,360
And they start talking about
their job and that never leads

301
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,160
anywhere.
I like to say one of my favorite

302
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,680
things, you know, like introduce
yourself and what's what did you

303
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,440
have for dinner?
I like that one.

304
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,520
And people love talking about
food and you know that that

305
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,560
opens people up.
It's like they don't expect it,

306
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,880
you know, stuff like that.
I mean, it works.

307
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,720
Give it a try sometimes.
Yeah, dude, you don't know

308
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,000
what's hilarious about that is
you're going to be episode in

309
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,080
the 60s somewhere, probably 68
or something on the podcast.

310
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,120
And I bet over 40 of those
people I actually forgot to do

311
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,400
with you today, which you just
reminded me.

312
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,920
But I asked them what they have
for breakfast and that's how I

313
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,080
do the sound check for the mics
to make sure the levels are set.

314
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,600
Because exactly what you said
like it's an easy answer, but

315
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,600
you get start to get a glimpse
of the human.

316
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,880
It warms them up for
conversation.

317
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,800
Damn it, I wish I would ask you
that question now knowing that.

318
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,680
You do that gets people talking.
It does, yeah.

319
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,119
It and it loosens up the vibe.
It can be intimidating sitting

320
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,160
in front of cameras and lights
and blah, blah, blah.

321
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,920
And that's one of those things
that starts to like get through

322
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,560
the armor because we all wear
this armor everyday.

323
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,680
That's like it.
We're protect full of those

324
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:26,440
secrets for secrets in quotes
for for some reason that it's

325
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,240
like it's not it's not secret to
anybody.

326
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,560
Everybody has all of this stuff
that goes on in their life and

327
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,200
we can find these things that we
connect over that you end up

328
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,760
putting in your songs and it's
awesome that you make an

329
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,160
intention to get there quicker
in in conversation.

330
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,440
That's that's so funny.
You asked that question, dude,

331
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:47,880
So let's try let's start to get
there.

332
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,880
I think I you brought up Door
County earlier from Door County

333
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,960
I.
Grew up in Appleton, I live in

334
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,840
Door County now.
Oh, you grew up in OK?

335
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:55,640
I didn't know that.
OK.

336
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,720
Yep.
I think I saw something and

337
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,280
maybe I'm maybe I'm mistaken
here, but I think I saw

338
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,640
something where you moved to
Colorado for a while and then

339
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,080
did you have this like, why did
I leave Door County moment?

340
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,560
Did I see that somewhere?
Yeah, that was what how else

341
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,640
that song started, OK.
I mean, I always wanted to live

342
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,000
out in Colorado, like the
mountains.

343
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,000
I love the mountains.
And, you know, it's fun to go

344
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,240
out there.
I didn't know how long I'd be

345
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,640
there, but it was like a month.
And I was just like, why the

346
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:26,840
hell did I leave you?
Dark County.

347
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,080
Was it the first thing I thought
night was?

348
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,600
Was it like musical aspirations
that drew you there or on top of

349
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,480
the mountains and stuff like
where you playing to music?

350
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,640
Like telling you earlier,
although being outside and I, I

351
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,400
did, I did love playing music
out in the mountains and I don't

352
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,200
know, I kind of want to just try
something new.

353
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:50,440
I guess I've always been on the
road and just travelling and

354
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,520
doing that.
So I also wanted a little bit of

355
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,920
a different idea of life for a
little bit, you know, and just

356
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,520
sit back and not gig every night
and do it somewhere new and just

357
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,720
just try something.
That's really why I wanted to go

358
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,080
out there and yeah, it was
great, but then I came back

359
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,360
here.
Was it a gradual thing or was

360
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,840
there a thing when you were out
there where you got that feeling

361
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,040
of why did I leave Door County?
Yeah, because everything is

362
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,800
working out so great here.
I love, I love the people here.

363
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,760
I love and even just Wisconsin,
but I love the love the culture

364
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,560
up there.
And it's very similar.

365
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,680
But you know, I get a little bit
of everything.

366
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,320
You get the coast out there, you
know, just great community.

367
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,240
You've always been.
I mean, that's where I can do

368
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,080
this full time.
Like I have that community up

369
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,440
there and there's there's a lot
to love about it.

370
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:44,480
So I guess, you know, I'd spend
my summers up there and, you

371
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,880
know, like May through October
and then I would tend to travel

372
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,280
in the winter a little more.
So yeah, I was like, I should

373
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,640
probably just move up there
being gone.

374
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,440
So I made my way back and
couldn't be happier.

375
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,760
Nice dude.
Yeah.

376
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,120
So then like when that when that
song came about, like that

377
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,720
concept of like you wanted to
come back, was that immediate or

378
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,360
was that like a gradual thing
that took some time to put in

379
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,320
place or was like, all right,
I'm heading back.

380
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,600
I mean, it's pretty quick,
honestly.

381
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,480
Yeah, yeah.
And.

382
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,560
And the song came quick, too.
Yes.

383
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:27,120
Yeah.
I knew.

384
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,200
I knew I'd be coming back after
about a month.

385
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,040
Like, I I knew I wanted to
finish out what I had went out

386
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,080
to do there.
And I'm really happy I went out.

387
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,360
You know, it's like I did a
whole record out there.

388
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,520
I started my own radio show at a
local radio station, brought in

389
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,240
artists and.
Oh, really cool.

390
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:45,400
Yeah. so-called it the Hippie
Camper show.

391
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,760
All right.
I kind of.

392
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,000
I always wanted to do it around
sitting around a campfire and

393
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,480
bringing artists in and, you
know, other local artists and

394
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,400
give them a platform to share
their music and give me another

395
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,760
side of the look.
And I love performing and

396
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,600
writing songs, but also, you
know, I love helping people out,

397
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,440
you know, too.
And that's, I think that's fun.

398
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,800
I, I enjoy hearing other
people's story and songs.

399
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,520
And I mean, to take that other
side of it was always an

400
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,480
intention.
But anyways, I found an

401
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,080
opportunity really early on
there to do a radio show.

402
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,320
How did that come about?
I would I didn't have a job.

403
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,800
So I was like, I was looking
unlike this, I was calling next

404
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,800
door or something and some lady
put up say hey, we're looking

405
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:33,240
for a ADJ at radio mid turn.
And so I was like, that sounds

406
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,680
fun.
I need something to do right

407
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,320
now.
And so I got in and she says,

408
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,120
well, it's all volunteer.
And I was like, that's fine.

409
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:43,720
This sounds fun and and she
says, well, do you want to start

410
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,440
tomorrow?
And I said, I guess so.

411
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,240
I was like, I I went home and I
started putting in like a, a

412
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,600
playlist of all these.
I tried to find artists that

413
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,000
were up and coming.
You get to pick all the tunes

414
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,240
too.
Yeah, yeah, You just, it was, it

415
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,400
was really easy.
Anyone who had music on you

416
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,560
just, you know, you got to
record it on the queue sheet and

417
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,200
stuff.
Yeah.

418
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,760
So yeah, I got to pick up all
these, you know, artists that I

419
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,280
met through tours of going out
to California and Colorado and

420
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,640
Utah in the past, all like
independent artists who maybe

421
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,040
aren't huge and but I know they
have great music and I love

422
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,560
their stuff.
So I give them a way to to put

423
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,160
their songs on.
And that was like kind of my

424
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,560
first episode.
And then later on, it's like I

425
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,080
wanted to make the interview
section.

426
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,080
So I'd do like half the show,
I'd be playing music and then

427
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,120
I'd have an artist come on for
30 minutes and we do a podcast

428
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,160
little thing for them and then
I'd have them play 3 songs and

429
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,560
kind of hear their story.
So I did it in the radio studio

430
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,120
and I called it the Hippie
Camper show.

431
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,960
And I always had the intent to
do it outdoors, but you know,

432
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,200
everything is right here
indoors, set up live on air.

433
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,240
So along with that, it got me
super into the local music

434
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:03,520
scene, like like super quick.
I go to open mics and I meet the

435
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,640
artists in the area, they come
on the show and then they're

436
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,240
asking me to come on the show.
And so just like that, you know,

437
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,720
I was, I'm new pretty much the
whole scene of like Avon and

438
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,480
Eagle Co, just like that.
And through there I met my buddy

439
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,440
Skip who played mandolin, who
introduced me to Joe Bianchi,

440
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,400
who is running intern studio and
and we end up recording record

441
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,240
all because that radio show.
I like it.

442
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,440
It was all because of that.
Life's happenstance because you

443
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,200
said yes in a moment that showed
up and at that point it would

444
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,760
have been super easy to say,
man, that sounds really fun, but

445
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,920
I also need to make some squeeze
here too.

446
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,480
Like it would have been easy to
say that, but you turned it into

447
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,320
an opportunity.
Yeah, like, you never know what

448
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,480
could come from it.
And I, I enjoy doing that.

449
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,680
You know, it's like I like
giving back to the community,

450
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:59,160
especially the music community.
Yeah.

451
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,400
And it's a great way to meet
people, make some friends.

452
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,040
Yeah, dude, that's awesome.
I had a really fun, you might

453
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,880
not even know this.
I I worked in radio for a long

454
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,240
time and I had a really cool
opportunity to run a program, a

455
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,000
station in a small market where
like I, I got free rein to put

456
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,280
on whatever tunes I want.
Before that they were playing

457
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,320
like the how would you even
describe it?

458
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:28,080
Like well, actually when I got
there they were playing like

459
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,040
modern radio country and prior
to that it was like that 70s and

460
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,880
80s kind of like pop vibe type
thing.

461
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,080
And I transitioned it to this
like Americana focused.

462
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,360
So at this time, like I was
playing Childers before anybody

463
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,920
heard them.
I was playing is Bull before

464
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,760
anybody heard them and like I
couldn't believe the people in

465
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,800
the small communities that
listened like it.

466
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,040
It was in a small city, but it
had a huge signal.

467
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,240
So it was like a large part of
the UP in northern Wisconsin.

468
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,160
I had the privilege to introduce
to somebody like Tyler Chillers

469
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,880
when he was coming to play at
Blue Ox and nobody knew him.

470
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,560
And like, I couldn't believe the
people that like even the

471
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,880
connection that that made, like
people from random communities

472
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,080
that would come up and say, you
know, I didn't know this type of

473
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,800
music existed.
It's rewarding in that sense,

474
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:20,360
too.
Yeah.

475
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,800
It's like showing your friends,
like when you find a really good

476
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,680
artist and you send it to your
friend, like, check this guy

477
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,800
out.
Yeah, but now you're doing that

478
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,400
to, like, a bunch of people.
Yeah.

479
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,280
On the radio.
Absolutely, man.

480
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,920
Yeah, That's that's one of the
few things I miss about work in

481
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,520
radio is, is that that vibe?
That's awesome, man.

482
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,000
And it's isn't it weird, we
talked about this on the podcast

483
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,160
a lot.
It's probably getting a little

484
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,680
sale for people to listen to
everyone.

485
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,440
But like how life delivers you
packages at you know, that just

486
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,040
like if you choose to open them
or not, some things can open

487
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,360
doors.
Like since I started the

488
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:57,440
podcast, man, like just the
other day actually, a former

489
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,480
student of mine reached out and
was like, I'm doing this cool

490
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,560
thing with a bunch of
nonprofits.

491
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,080
We're going to try to go live.
I know you do the podcast.

492
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,600
Do you want to MC this like
local event?

493
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,440
Like Co host this local live
event with me on socials and

494
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,880
highlight a bunch of nonprofits
in the community?

495
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,680
I was like, yes, absolutely I
want to do that.

496
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,480
Like how can we do it?
How can we set it up?

497
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,680
That doesn't happen if I don't
decide to, you know, on a whim,

498
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,360
buy a bunch of podcast equipment
and just start talking with

499
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,200
people you know.
Yeah, it develops, but in really

500
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,480
great ways.
Well, my buddy always said to me

501
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,040
once he says don't be too
hungry.

502
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,640
And I always like, ever since I
started doing that things just

503
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,440
they work out when you start
doing what you want to do.

504
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,000
Does that make sense?
Yeah.

505
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,520
Yeah.
And that was a really great

506
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,040
piece of advice.
And just, yeah, then the

507
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,560
packages start getting delivered
to you and you can take the

508
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,040
opportunities, yeah, up on them
or not.

509
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,400
And the horses like if you're
always running at something full

510
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,320
speed, like you might Passover
things or you might not have the

511
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:09,440
same opportunities pop up, you'd
be trying to almost guide it in

512
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,480
your way that you think should
be guided versus like, oh, this

513
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,840
is how it's intended to to work
out.

514
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,000
Does that make sense?
Absolutely, dude, yeah,

515
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,600
packages, yeah, 100%.
You come to learn, you know,

516
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,240
sometimes it happens quickly,
sometimes it takes a long time.

517
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,880
You come to learn that like how
little control you actually have

518
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,920
in life, you know, and that's a
that's a line that's tough to

519
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,440
find.
I mean, I strive for that

520
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:43,480
everyday to try to find like the
line between having a vision and

521
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,680
trying to bring it to life.
But at the same time saying

522
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,960
like, well, when this is
supposed to happen, it will or

523
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,840
if it's supposed to happen, it
will.

524
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,880
It's, I'm still working on that
man.

525
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,360
Like I, I certainly don't have
the answer, but it's something I

526
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,160
think about a lot because, you
know, there is a flip side of

527
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,800
the coin too.
There's a flip side of the coin

528
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:09,320
that like, OK, that mentality
can very quickly lead to not

529
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,800
walking in a direction at all.
Totally.

530
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,920
And I.
Got to stay motivated, yeah?

531
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,120
Totally, yeah, 'cause to get
those rewards, I think, I think

532
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:21,000
it rewards like, you know, the
universe rewards intention, but

533
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,400
at the same time it doesn't
reward force.

534
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:30,160
You can't make it happen when
you want it most of the time,

535
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,880
but obviously nothing is, you
know, complete.

536
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,160
But yeah, man, that's a, that's
a good, that's a good lesson.

537
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,720
So did you, did you make changes
in how you navigate life when

538
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,640
you, when you like took that in
and we're like, OK, yeah, don't.

539
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,000
Yeah, maybe if I find myself
thinking about it more than

540
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,560
anything sometimes, you know, if
I feel like I don't, it's almost

541
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,560
like don't spread yourself too
thin, too.

542
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:03,720
But how do I describe it?
It's, I don't know, my buddy, it

543
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,880
was my buddy Adam.
He told me I was in California.

544
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,000
You know, it takes a just like,
take it as it comes, if that

545
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,600
makes sense.
Like you got to be motivated.

546
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,000
You got to you got to set your
intentions, to set your goals.

547
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,440
And it's almost like work
towards them, but don't overdo

548
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:20,520
it.
Does that make sense?

549
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,920
And could always, it couldn't
always lead to where or maybe

550
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,400
you'd get disappointed or
something.

551
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,960
Work out the way you thought it
was.

552
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,880
That makes sense.
I don't know.

553
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,720
Life always takes different,
different paths, I find, and

554
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,560
it's always a great one if you
let it come.

555
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,800
The way you're having fun with
life and loving life.

556
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,240
It always turns out the way it's
supposed to.

557
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,600
But yeah, I don't know.
I found myself sometimes, you

558
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,400
know, like taking a step back.
That's what I'm trying to say

559
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,440
from it all.
Like I need to take a step back

560
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,920
sometimes.
And yeah, you know, I mean, not

561
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,840
put myself right in front or put
myself out there so hard at

562
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,400
somebody or some opportunity or
some situation because it's

563
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,560
going to happen, but don't
stress yourself out about it or

564
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,840
maybe pushing too hard will get
rid of that opportunity

565
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,160
sometimes.
Yeah, that's more of the intent

566
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,520
I take.
So I kind of find myself

567
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,400
checking myself more than
anything at times.

568
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,720
That's awesome, dude.
Yeah, because tunnel vision and

569
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,640
hyper focus can certainly happen
really easy without us knowing

570
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,560
it.
And it's just like, especially

571
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,960
when you lend towards that line
of motivation, it's like, OK,

572
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,360
this has got to be done.
This got to be done.

573
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,560
This got to be done just like
one thing after another.

574
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,840
And you know, you end up going a
lot of wayward paths doing that

575
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,440
too, which is inevitable in
life.

576
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,840
But still like that step back to
see the whole picture,

577
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,400
especially actually as as a
musician, like it's such a

578
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:58,720
unique thing to do because it's
so it's such a visible goal that

579
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,440
that you're trying to achieve,
right?

580
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,400
And that when we look, when we
switch it around, look inward,

581
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,280
there's a lot of feelings that
come with that stuff like you,

582
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,160
you know, you're aspiring to be
this thing like you want to

583
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,440
share this message.
You have it.

584
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,640
And and that's the wild thing
about music is that like, you

585
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,000
can roll across somebody that
nobody knows, you know, they got

586
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,240
500 followers on a social media
platform or something, and then

587
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,680
they blow your doors off with
something they created.

588
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:34,280
And it's like, OK, if that
exists, it's not always just

589
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,880
pure work and motivation that
makes things happen.

590
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,040
Because like, you know, a great
example of this dude, another

591
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,880
guy I had on the podcast, a
buddy of mine named Chris owns 3

592
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,320
through 5 here downtown where he
has a bunch of musicians play.

593
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,520
And the first show I ever went
to, man, right when I had him on

594
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,360
the podcast, awesome show.
We had a really talented artist

595
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,960
who is like doesn't have a
massive following, but he's got

596
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,880
like some YouTube videos with
like, you know, 50 thousand

597
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,640
75,000 views, which is huge for
artists.

598
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,640
It's massive.
And he put on this rockin show.

599
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,200
It was awesome.
Chris does a little after show

600
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,560
thing where they'll play in a
little more intimate setting.

601
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,120
It gets to like 2:00 in the
morning and mind you, like I'm

602
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,920
not a 2:00 in the morning guy
anymore.

603
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,440
Like I don't make it to that
time.

604
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,720
So I'm like yawning.
I'm ready to go home.

605
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,600
It was an awesome night.
And then another dude who runs

606
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,480
The Who runs the sound for the
the live shows, picks up a

607
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,120
guitar and he's going to start
playing.

608
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,760
And I'm like, OK, well, I'm I'm
here.

609
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,360
I'm going to stay.
Like I'm tired, but I'm going to

610
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,800
stay.
This dude just blows my doors

611
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,840
off for an hour just playing
solo acoustic songs that he had

612
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,040
written and strike up a
conversation with him.

613
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,360
He has some things recorded, but
like, you know, in the early

614
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,920
stages yet.
And that's a prime example of

615
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,320
that.
Like this dude ran the sound all

616
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:57,920
night.
He's there.

617
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,760
He works a normal job.
He ends up playing at 2O clock

618
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,440
in the morning for the 10 people
that are still there listening.

619
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,200
And I'm like, this is this.
He's a monster.

620
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,040
Like he's so good.
And Fast forward to now, it's

621
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,720
awesome.
He just got his album done.

622
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,440
He's going to be coming on next
month or two months, but.

623
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,920
What's his name?
His name is DPM David Paul

624
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,120
Martin.
Oh yeah, I want to say right now

625
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,120
I don't.
Know who that is?

626
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,560
Yeah.
And dude, like out of nowhere,

627
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,960
nothing I ever expected.
Yeah, he's a sound guy.

628
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I I always call him DPM,

629
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,320
so I hope I'm getting his full
name right.

630
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,840
Yeah.
He's he's awesome.

631
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,440
Yeah.
If we're thinking the same guy,

632
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,880
he's he's amazing.
So kill all incredibly talented.

633
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:50,240
And it's like that thing exists
across our landscape.

634
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,240
And if everybody was trying to
force it and it actually worked,

635
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,440
like it would certainly work.
Because if you're if you're a

636
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,440
monster and you say, OK,
somebody, you know, a certain

637
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,040
amount of people, I'm sure
you've run into this.

638
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,120
A certain amount of people walk
up to your show afterwards and

639
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,360
they're like, you know, that was
good, man.

640
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,840
That was good.
Like keep on, keep on doing what

641
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,800
you're doing and you get that
rejuvenation.

642
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,159
But like, at the same time, it's
like, OK, yeah.

643
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:19,600
But as humans, we want this,
like, reward.

644
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,080
It's like I put so much work and
effort into this, you know?

645
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,000
There's a lot of, there's a lot
of emotion that comes with

646
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,639
writing songs, too.
Yeah.

647
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:28,520
And you know that, you know,
that's maybe some artists share

648
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,159
it out, maybe some some do
release it, some don't.

649
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:35,080
But, you know, there's a lot of
a lot of personal attachment to

650
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,400
songs, you know, when they're
coming from the heart.

651
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,560
Yeah.
So yeah, when you put it out

652
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,639
there, maybe if nobody says
anything about it, you know, I

653
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,280
can, I can discourage some
people.

654
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,600
For sure.
And that's, you know, if nobody

655
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,280
does connect with it, that's OK.
You know, as a artist, I've,

656
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,920
I've come to enjoy that, like
just enjoy writing songs, you

657
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,320
know, like, as I said before, it
was kind of like a journal to,

658
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,280
to put something out there into
the world.

659
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,440
You know, if people hook onto
it, you know, that's, that's

660
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:06,760
great.
It's like throwing a message in

661
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,480
a bottle out in the ocean and
someone picks it up.

662
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,520
People pick it up great.
If not, like it feels good to

663
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,200
get it out at the end of the
day, you know?

664
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,000
Yeah, that can be intimidating
sometimes.

665
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,160
Yeah.
How did the Speaking of that

666
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,000
like the craft of it?
How did the craft of songwriting

667
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,760
develop for you?
Because like being a musician

668
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,400
beforehand, or like a guitarist
beforehand.

669
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,880
Yeah.
How did stepping into the craft

670
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:40,040
of songwriting, like humble you
motivate, you persuade you?

671
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,520
Because like, songwriting is not
an easy thing.

672
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,000
Like a lot of people.
Like there's all a bunch of

673
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,520
artists.
I had one on the podcast talk

674
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,480
about like this instance where
like, you know, when you're a

675
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,920
songwriter, it, it, it kind of
pours out of you.

676
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,280
Again, you don't force it.
It kind of pours out of you.

677
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,480
And sometimes you're like the
medium, you know, like these

678
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,880
ideas come and go and you create
it, but there's also the craft

679
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,880
piece of it.
And how did, how quickly or not

680
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,960
quickly has that come for you?
And how did that change you as a

681
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,080
musician?
I guess early, early on, I was

682
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,240
always very intrigued with the
lyrics, you know, I because I

683
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,560
didn't understand exactly how to
do that yet.

684
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,160
It always just seemed like a
little bit of a task compared to

685
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,440
playing guitars.
Like I understood that more so

686
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,880
so writing lyrics, you know, it
started, you know, start diving

687
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,800
into writers that I really
enjoyed, like Johnny Cash and,

688
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,680
you know, just simple chord
progressions and he's saying

689
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,480
what he's saying.
And then you start seeing

690
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,040
similarities between others and
you're like, OK, at some point

691
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,160
it just starts flowing out of
you.

692
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,080
Like you do have to just say it.
You know, if it, when you can

693
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,560
get past that barrier of, oh,
this isn't good enough or no

694
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,280
one's going to like it, you
know, you start just writing to

695
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,280
write.
It just flows out of you.

696
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,000
Like you're writing stuff on
paper.

697
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,800
It feels good.
It's like a it's like a

698
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,120
medicine.
Yeah.

699
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,320
So then once, once you get to
that point, I feel like it just

700
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,840
becomes a lot easier because
then you're just writing to

701
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,160
write.
And I think, you know, there

702
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,320
was, there was a time a couple
years ago and I started figuring

703
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,040
that out.
Just write about whatever you

704
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,600
want to write about, say what's
on your head and let it out.

705
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,680
You know, songwriting became
really easy.

706
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,640
I would be writing a couple
songs a week, you know, and then

707
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,440
like right now I'm on a dry
spell.

708
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,000
Like I got to re understand that
goes in waves.

709
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,480
So that's like lately I've been
becoming too critical.

710
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,000
But and then the, you know, just
got to remind yourself it just

711
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,000
let it out and through
throughout more songwriting, I

712
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,480
guess you said the craftsmanship
of it all, you know, you start

713
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,840
to learn little things like, you
know, like those imperfect

714
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:56,200
rhymes that you don't remember.
They don't rhyme together like

715
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,400
perfectly.
I don't know how to say it like

716
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,840
maybe like Wisconsin and begin,
you know, they they run together

717
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,560
trying to think of like an
imperfect drive on the spot, but

718
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,520
you know, what does it sound
like?

719
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,600
And so like that's one of a
craftsmanship thing that you

720
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,120
would learn through doing it
more and more.

721
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,160
And then maybe you learn how to
structure songs and like and

722
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,200
rhyme schemes and you start to
see these patterns between songs

723
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,040
that you've done and other
artists you look up to.

724
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,240
And and then then that's when
you start realizing, yeah,

725
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:32,800
Johnny Cash had really simple
progressions and like lyrics.

726
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,360
And then you start realizing how
he's structuring all that.

727
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,560
And then that's where the
masterpiece is, you know, it's

728
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,800
like like this maybe there's not
a single rhyme or like boy Named

729
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,480
Sue and Bob Dylan.
It's a lot in folk music.

730
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,400
Like they just like, you know,
there's no chorus.

731
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:48,960
Yeah.
Nothing that repeats itself.

732
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,520
Yeah, like, yeah, you can do
that.

733
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,160
That's a song, you know, like,
and then you have the the

734
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,560
inverse of, you know, you could
have a song, say 3 lines the

735
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,560
whole time.
And that's a song, you know,

736
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,840
and, and I think folk music
really helped me understand that

737
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,000
it's just songs that people
enjoyed singing just for the

738
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,640
people.
Like some of those, the simplest

739
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,840
songs, like they connect with
people, but people wrote them

740
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,720
because they are feeling them in
their heart and just let it out.

741
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,600
Yeah, at the end of the day.
So that those are more like and

742
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:29,000
then melody wise and trying to
expand what you do sometimes,

743
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,920
like as far as instrumentation,
you know that it's all stuff you

744
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,640
learn through doing more and
more of it.

745
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,080
You know that that's all the
skill of like becoming a better

746
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,960
songwriter.
Maybe shorten the chorus or put

747
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,480
the chorus up or you know, have
have less than a verse or maybe

748
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,160
shorten the second verse and
things like that that you find,

749
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,480
Oh, this works really well for
me.

750
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,680
I liked how I did this in the
song previously.

751
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,040
I want to pull that over and try
something new.

752
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,440
So I enjoy like that that puzzle
piece to it too.

753
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:00,640
That's really fun.
But that's more like the

754
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,080
analytical side of it.
And and then there's also.

755
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,400
Just the creativeness and I find
the creativeness is all like

756
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:11,480
just in the words and letting it
out and that's where to start.

757
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,040
And I can go back and try to
rework things maybe that didn't

758
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,720
flow perfectly how I wanted it
to.

759
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,720
I'm not remembering it after the
first time.

760
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:26,600
I mean, I need to redo that so I
can I can connect with it and

761
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,000
remember it.
I use that as a thing sometimes

762
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,760
too, is like, OK, if I didn't
not waking up singing it the

763
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,200
next day or at least part of it,
maybe, maybe I go on to

764
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,040
something new.
But instead of that intention,

765
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,000
too, as a songwriter, I think
it's important.

766
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,560
You know, some people say, oh,
you got to wait for the

767
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,280
inspiration to hit, you know,
you do.

768
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,040
But if you want to be writing
songs a lot, you got to write

769
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,240
songs.
Yeah.

770
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:54,400
So you got to.
Yeah, you do.

771
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:58,120
I think it's important to sit
down and try to write something.

772
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,240
You know, it doesn't have to
turn into anything.

773
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,920
But, you know, it's a muscle.
You got to work it just like,

774
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,800
just like going to the gym,
going on runs, you know, if you

775
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,480
want to build that up, you have
to work on it.

776
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,320
And you have to sit there in the
morning with your coffee, maybe

777
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,400
write, write a poem, write down
3 lines.

778
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,920
But at least it did something
for the day.

779
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:18,720
Yeah.
You know.

780
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,560
Starts your momentum.
You hit on exactly the contrast.

781
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,080
I was getting it and you put it
in perfect terms, like the the

782
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,840
analytical side versus the
creative side.

783
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,320
That's exactly what I was
getting when I asked you that

784
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,560
question I was picturing.
So in my early 20s, I I wrote a

785
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,880
handful of songs, less than 10
probably.

786
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,000
And I had no idea of song
structure.

787
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,840
Like I don't even know how to
read music.

788
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,520
I I just play music by cord and
ear.

789
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:46,840
Like I don't know how to read
music.

790
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,560
I just bought a guitar when I
was 14 and just started playing

791
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:56,000
and I learned from YouTube.
So like that, those songs like I

792
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,440
can still, I'd have to remember
like my chord progressions and

793
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,920
everything, but I can still like
remember them for the most part.

794
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,240
But none of that was like, it
was all just like things that I

795
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:09,120
needed to get out of me.
They were just like things that

796
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,800
I felt compelled to create.
I didn't want to be a musician.

797
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,280
I wasn't aspiring to play, you
know, live shows or whatever,

798
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,080
even though I ended up doing
like some cover stuff.

799
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,200
But those things need to come
out.

800
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,920
And then recently in my life,
like within the Super recent,

801
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,800
within the past like four
months, I've had just this weird

802
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:33,640
like itch to write things.
So I I've, I've written like

803
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,360
I've started like trying to
figure out what that even looks

804
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,920
like creatively for me right
now.

805
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:44,440
And I have this one that like
was a cool idea.

806
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,720
So I've done a couple of the
classic like, oh, this is a cool

807
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,320
line, like talking it into my
phone so I don't forget it later

808
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,520
and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

809
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,040
That you do.
And I had this one that I was

810
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,720
like, this is, this could really
be something.

811
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:59,840
It's an awesome concept.
And I made the early mistake of

812
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,080
like I reflected back on that
first experience of the first

813
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,080
set of songs I wrote.
And I made the early mistake of

814
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,520
like looking at learning more of
the analytical side of like song

815
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,960
structure, because this is a
really unique one.

816
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,640
It's actually one of it's a song
that I don't envision having a

817
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,560
chorus.
Like it's just this, it's a

818
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,320
refrain at the beginning of a
bunch of verses and like, I

819
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,520
looked at all this structure
stuff, dude, and it killed me

820
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,520
creatively.
So it's still just lingering

821
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,200
there because I started
overthinking the analytical side

822
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,200
before I finished telling the
story, dude.

823
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:34,960
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.

824
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,920
And it was brutal.
So now it's just lingering in

825
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,840
this weird like in between of
like cool idea, but still

826
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,920
nothing has come of it.
Because I had this awesome

827
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,480
creative motivation out of
nowhere after, you know, 15

828
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,000
years of not even thinking about
writing a song, 10 years read,

829
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,440
I'm not even thinking about
writing a song.

830
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,760
I get hit by this thing.
And then I have this awesome

831
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,680
creative juice coming out where
I'm humming a melody in my

832
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,120
shower and I'm trying to figure
out in my mind where I want to

833
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,040
take it.
And then I look up song

834
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,800
structures, dude, and then just
get completely intimidated

835
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,280
because I don't know shit about
any of them.

836
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,400
Yeah, it's, you know, and that's
what I think you can write a

837
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,240
song that ever you want.
The structures are just, you

838
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:19,240
know, there's they're cool to
mess around with and they're

839
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:21,680
they're guidelines.
But you know, and then

840
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,320
eventually I feel like through
doing it enough, you start to

841
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,680
understand a structure.
Maybe like build your own

842
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,680
structure.
That really was easy for you to

843
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,880
just it's a structure, but you
don't think of it as a

844
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,920
structure.
It's just the way you're writing

845
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,600
songs like, oh, I want to go
here next.

846
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,400
That's just what's just more of
a habit.

847
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,760
You know, it's the way I write
songs, you know, you know,

848
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,000
structures are good guidelines,
but I don't think there's ever a

849
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,680
right way to do it.
It's however you want it to come

850
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,760
out.
You know, it's like the one I

851
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,040
really learned that just from,
like Todd Snyder.

852
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,000
Yeah, he was.
He was the guy like I, but I

853
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,040
found him was like, wow, you can
write whatever you want.

854
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:02,440
Seriously.
Yeah.

855
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,000
I wouldn't have wrote as many
songs about as I have now if it

856
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,800
wasn't for him.
Because you just that's how you

857
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,120
do it.
You're just saying what's on

858
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,840
your head.
But yeah, the structure things,

859
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,880
I think it's secondary.
Yeah.

860
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,360
And it's fun to think about
sometimes.

861
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,880
Sometimes you can think about
it, but you don't have to, you

862
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,960
know?
Yeah, it's it's good to good to

863
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,320
run with the creative juices
when when they're flowing and

864
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,600
you're feeling like writing
something down, write it down.

865
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,920
Yeah, yeah.
So Lynn, let's let's pivot that

866
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:42,320
to the aforementioned dry spell.
You said about like that the the

867
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,120
creative roller coaster of
sometimes like, you know, if

868
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,960
you're feeling something or like
something's happening in life,

869
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,680
it's like you got 10 ideas that
are ready to boil out of you.

870
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:55,840
And then sometimes you find
yourself where it's like a

871
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,520
little bit of a hole and there's
like, where are these ideas?

872
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,400
Where do they come from?
Yeah, that's huge.

873
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,120
I think.
I think they're there still.

874
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,200
Yes, I'm sitting there thinking
stuff.

875
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,160
Like you get in your head all
day and think about stuff.

876
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,160
It's just like I said, sometimes
you need to set that intention

877
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,680
of writing it down.
And, you know, I think that's

878
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,960
where I where I've been lacking
and that's why I don't have them

879
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,320
all the time.
But you know, I think, I think

880
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,240
we're always, we're always
writing songs, you know, no

881
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:27,400
matter what we're doing in the
day where there's always stuff

882
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,520
coming in.
It's just whether we're putting

883
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,760
it down this time or not.
I think that's the hardest part.

884
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,400
Well, sometimes the intentions
probably hard, right?

885
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,200
Because I mean, being a gigging
musician is not an easy gig.

886
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,320
It's like tiring, you know,
You're probably on the road a

887
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:43,240
lot.
Yeah.

888
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,640
And it's very easy to like
anything we do in life, if

889
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,560
you're, if you're tired mentally
or physically, it takes more

890
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,720
pushing stuff out of the way to
get yourself out of the way to

891
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:59,080
do things.
And I have to assume that that

892
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,440
happens to like, even though
that's your main focus.

893
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,080
Yeah.
Like tonight you're, you're on a

894
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,400
podcast at noon driving to point
to do a show.

895
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,000
Like you do that over and over
and over again.

896
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,800
There becomes these building
blocks in your way that you have

897
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,640
to decide to push out of the way
and become really like motivated

898
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,600
to even start pick up the pen.
Right, Yeah, that's that's where

899
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,160
that phone comes really nice.
Yeah, do when you're driving

900
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,080
down.
The road yeah yeah, sometimes

901
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:27,760
that that don't happen yeah
yeah.

902
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,480
I know what you're saying though
yeah and so yeah, definitely can

903
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,960
can fill up with time but then
you get tired but I.

904
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,280
You're like force yourself to
get tired and then sometimes

905
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:43,400
ideas come differently.
I when I get really tired, I, I

906
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,920
just say whatever I get.
It's almost like I've had a

907
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,360
bunch of drinks in a sense where
it's just like I'm very loose,

908
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,520
like I'm not thinking straight.
And you know, sometimes it's

909
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,440
really good for songs like you
just because you kind of let

910
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,960
your guard down.
You're thinking differently.

911
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,560
So I, I find writing at night
like late is, is great for me.

912
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,120
Like that's, that's what works
for me more often than not, you

913
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,080
know, after a gig something.
Then there's sometimes you're

914
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,800
feeling that inspiration after
the show too, like, as we were

915
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,600
saying, like sometimes jump on
that inspiration if it's there.

916
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,760
Sure, it's not always there, but
sometimes.

917
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,960
And yeah, early morning songs
with some coffee, because coffee

918
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,560
always gets the gets the mind
working.

919
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,760
That's the best time.
Like just different feelings.

920
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,880
Yeah.
I've made different times of the

921
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,720
day create different emotions
and different feelings that come

922
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:35,040
through songs.
So depending on when you're

923
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,560
writing them, different feelings
going to come through.

924
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:38,560
Yeah.
That.

925
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:39,840
Yeah.
That's awesome.

926
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,720
Yeah.
It is super interesting.

927
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,400
It's so unique to each person.
It's so, it's so unique and

928
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,800
personal and visceral and I
think that's what makes it move

929
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,760
people.
Yeah, and everyone's got their

930
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,520
own approach.
That's that's the thing.

931
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,920
So yeah, there's no right way to
do it.

932
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,720
Yeah, and there's a pretty
common theme occurring where

933
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:07,360
often times I think it's the
block is self-imposed more than

934
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,760
anything.
Like you've mentioned it in a

935
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:14,400
couple different angles in this
conversation already of like it

936
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,160
paraphrasing and to put it in
like bold terms, it's like just

937
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,600
get out of your own way.
There's so many things that we

938
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:27,080
build in our lives, like things
that are in act actually a

939
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,480
mountain for us to climb or push
out of the way as it opposed to

940
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,600
like just letting, well, letting
it happen like you were getting

941
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,280
that earlier, you know, central
theme, man.

942
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,080
Yeah, Yeah.
But yeah, I think we get

943
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,560
distracted a lot in life too.
Sure.

944
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,000
You know, So there's, you know,
there's there's little time

945
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,000
constraints that people, you
know, put on themselves.

946
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,600
So that, I mean, I try to
eliminate those the best I can,

947
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,840
too.
Sometimes, you know, I don't

948
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,800
even own ATV in my office.
Yeah.

949
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:55,840
So I don't.
Yeah.

950
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:02,720
It's like the just it's one less
thing, one less distraction take

951
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:06,280
away from my downtime that I
don't get too often anyways.

952
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,680
And, you know, so it's one of
those things, yeah, preference

953
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,600
and you know, helps with, helps
with things sometimes with like

954
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:17,840
focusing it on writing a song
maybe instead.

955
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:19,640
Yeah.
So.

956
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,000
That's awesome.
How long, how long ago did you

957
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,280
make that decision?
When did you cut the TV cord or?

958
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,320
Like stop playing video games
and.

959
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,240
Like or just like not.
When did you decide not to have

960
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:31,360
ATV?
When I started playing guitar,

961
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,000
yeah, yeah.
It's just like I was, I was, I

962
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,520
loved video games back in the
day, you know, like high school

963
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,440
and middle school.
It's like I'd be spending hours

964
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,600
on it, you know, And then I was
like, yeah, I'm kind of wasting

965
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,680
my time here.
I should do something that

966
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,880
actually worthwhile to myself
personally, you know, it's and I

967
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,200
thought guitar, I was liking
guitar.

968
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:00,240
So I would end up doing that for
7-8 hours a day for, for a year

969
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:02,560
or two, you know, trying to
learn.

970
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:03,840
And that's where all my time
went.

971
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:04,800
And then it's like, I don't
know.

972
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:10,480
I'd, I'd never especially today.
I just, I don't like having ATV

973
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,360
for some reason.
It's just not what I enjoy.

974
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,400
Yeah.
I also think it's it's fun to

975
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,600
have people over not have ATV
because when you start talking

976
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:28,600
to each other and have fun and
throw a record on that's A and

977
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,920
then you start talking about the
record and you're looking at it

978
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,880
with each other just yeah,
eliminating distractions.

979
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,680
I just like to.
That was more the reason for it.

980
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,880
You know, I want to go watch a
football game or something,

981
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,400
which I don't do too often
anyways.

982
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,960
Always.
But you know, someone invites

983
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,520
you over for the Super Bowl.
Heck yeah, I'll go.

984
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,960
I'll come over and watch that.
You want to go watch?

985
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,360
Watch a game somewhere, watch a
movie?

986
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,560
Sure, I'll do that.
Just choose not to have one at

987
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,920
home.
That's awesome, dude.

988
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,280
So.
I love that I I had a really

989
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,320
cool conversation the other day.
Actually it was with a student

990
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:02,920
of mine.
I think it was with a student of

991
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:04,360
mine.
I can't picture the conversation

992
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,840
I normally can, but we were
talking about this exact concept

993
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,800
like distractions in life and
reaching goals.

994
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,720
Like was the premise of the
conversation and he was a gamer

995
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:23,800
and like my, my statement that
ended up really resonating with

996
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,320
him was like I, I used to play
video games a lot too, like in,

997
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,280
in college, like Call of Duty
was like loved it.

998
00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:31,480
Great game played a ton.
Dude, it was super fun.

999
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,840
I had a blast doing it.
But I said like, the, the core

1000
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,960
of my message was that all all
the hours that I spent playing

1001
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,800
Call of Duty, I don't remember
my best kill streak, right, You

1002
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,040
know?
But when I think about the

1003
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,520
things that happened in life
that mattered, that's I have

1004
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,960
visceral memories of those
things.

1005
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,520
The difference of that screams,
doesn't it?

1006
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,720
Yeah, like, yeah.
And it wasn't, it wasn't even

1007
00:52:56,720 --> 00:52:59,480
just playing guitar for me.
I just wanted to go hang out

1008
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,480
with my friends.
I was like, let's go, let's go

1009
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,840
Ding Dong ditch our buddy, you
know, let's let's go drive

1010
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,280
around and let's just be, let's
just be dumb while we can.

1011
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,080
Like we're really young.
Let's we should, we're alive.

1012
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,080
Like, let's, let's do something
outside.

1013
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,600
Let's get together and hang out
and see what happens.

1014
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,760
You know, there was.
There was that too.

1015
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,720
That's really, really important,
dude.

1016
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:29,280
It's.
Really important the man making

1017
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:35,360
like that realization in itself
is a gift of just like, because

1018
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,560
I like, I could see the wheels
start turning in his mind and

1019
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,560
like he he was talking about
and.

1020
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,920
And he, he had played Call of
Duty a lot throughout the years

1021
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,800
too.
And he, and he thought about it

1022
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,880
and I could like see it on his
face when he kind of became

1023
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,480
disappointed that like he's
like, yeah, I, I can't remember

1024
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,400
my best kill streak either.
And I'm like, I hate to be the

1025
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,080
bearer of bad news, but let's do
something else, man.

1026
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,200
I love it.
Yeah.

1027
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,480
Because like, I don't know.
That doesn't, it's really easy

1028
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:12,640
to naturally fall in those holes
because they're like, there's,

1029
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,400
they're very popular for a
reason, right?

1030
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,920
They can command our psychology
and our attention.

1031
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:22,160
And there's a reason that like,
it's super easy to just hop on a

1032
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,680
game and next thing you know,
you're like 5 hours later, five

1033
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,040
hours later, that's five hours
of your life gone.

1034
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:31,360
You're up until 2:00 AM when
maybe you have to wake up at

1035
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,360
7:00 tomorrow to do something
important.

1036
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,400
So it's going to impact that.
And did you take anything out of

1037
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,800
it that filled your cup as a
human when you were doing it?

1038
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,400
Or was it just like you giggled
a couple times because the the

1039
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,840
people that you were playing
multiplayer with like said some

1040
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,480
funny stuff but didn't really
matter, you know?

1041
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:48,720
Right.
Yeah.

1042
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,160
And sometimes, like, you're
sitting on the mic and we'll get

1043
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,560
actually pissed at each other in
real life, like the next day.

1044
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,200
It's like, why'd you do that,
Scully?

1045
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:59,040
Like, dude, it was a game.
It was a game.

1046
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,280
I don't know, but that's all
Funny games, you know?

1047
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,920
It's like, you know, and then
there's times like, hey, this

1048
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,640
is, it can be a past time in
some sense, but it's good to

1049
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,440
have, you know, you're right.
You got to, if you want to do

1050
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,560
something else, it's important
and like you feel important too.

1051
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,800
You got to make the.
You got to make that switch

1052
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,240
sometimes.
For sure, dude.

1053
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,760
Yeah, I have one of those.
I have a choice decision that

1054
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,520
people look at me cross eyed
when I tell them I don't have

1055
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:25,760
either.
I like, I haven't had a

1056
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,160
microwave in a house for
probably 10 years.

1057
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,080
Like I just, yeah, I just don't
buy a microwave.

1058
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:35,720
It's very, I mean, I don't
really truly know the reason.

1059
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,640
Like it's not like I set out
this like perfect intention of

1060
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,120
like This is why I'm not going
to have a microwave.

1061
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,280
But I just think they're weird.
I think microwave is a weird

1062
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,120
thing.
So I just, I just don't own one.

1063
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:49,520
And it's fun to talk about stuff
like that, dude.

1064
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,600
Like these are the layers that
we started our conversation

1065
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,000
with.
Like do it man.

1066
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,960
I went without a microwave for
like a little bit, and I noticed

1067
00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,720
right away that I didn't, that I
didn't have one.

1068
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:00,880
Did you?
I don't, Yeah.

1069
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:01,600
I don't know.
Yeah.

1070
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,680
That's impressive.
Is there any, like, is there

1071
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,760
like a certain type of food that
you particularly missed when you

1072
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,080
didn't have it or anything?
Like, are you a popcorn guy or

1073
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:10,200
something?
That it was like, Oh yeah, I

1074
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:10,880
love.
Popcorn.

1075
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,520
But I make it all.
I'm like, I like, stir, stir

1076
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:15,840
crazy things.
Uh huh.

1077
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,040
Yeah, I do that.
OK.

1078
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,280
But no, I don't know.
Just like the convenience.

1079
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,240
So just heat something up.
Yeah, that's something that's

1080
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:23,800
cold.
Yeah.

1081
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:25,640
I missed that.
Yeah.

1082
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,560
It's it took my wife a while to.
Stir on, you know.

1083
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,120
Yeah, it took my wife while to
get on board because like most

1084
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,560
normal people, she had lived
with a microwave and I was like,

1085
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,880
you know what, I just don't
really want a microwave.

1086
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,160
And at the time, but like our
kitchen was pretty small.

1087
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,520
There was no like normal place
to put it was the first house we

1088
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,000
bought together.
And I was like, you know, I just

1089
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,560
and I don't think we don't think
we need one.

1090
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,800
So like the the prior owners had
had one above the stove.

1091
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:55,080
I took it out and just put a
vent hood in and she went

1092
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:56,480
through that same thing for a
while.

1093
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,840
She was just like, you know, I
can't heat this up.

1094
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:01,960
Like this is so much easier with
a microwave or whatever.

1095
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,880
So I had to navigate those like
marital waters.

1096
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,280
But I don't know now, we just
now it's like, you know,

1097
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:13,840
circling it back to the TV
thing, You, you just exist.

1098
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,800
Without it, Yeah.
And I eliminated the

1099
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,920
distraction.
So it's like you, I, I find that

1100
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,680
it cleared my mind a lot and,
you know, just, it made like

1101
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,520
going back, even back to the
music now is like the, that's

1102
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,000
just what made everything better
in my life, like becoming a

1103
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,280
songwriters.
Like I was more focused on the

1104
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,960
now and being a human, like
dialing and with your, your

1105
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,360
inner self and stuff.
And that really helped the

1106
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,120
songwriting and just creating
music and things.

1107
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,520
So yeah, dude all tied into that
too.

1108
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,600
Yeah.
Do you get that same look when

1109
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,480
you tell people that you don't
have that cross eyed look?

1110
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,280
Like what?
You don't have ATV or I?

1111
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,360
Mean, yeah, like some people,
yeah, but I don't know doesn't

1112
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,400
matter like try it yeah, Your
your life's going to be a little

1113
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,960
better I think yeah.
You'll be less angry or less

1114
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:05,480
distracted yeah.
So.

1115
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,200
I have that.
I have that relationship with

1116
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,880
social media in the phone too.
Like I like, I'll catch myself

1117
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:16,480
allowing myself like wasting too
much time on social, but like

1118
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:23,200
that's it's, it's two different
outlets for me.

1119
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,320
It's two different outlets were
like there I find some valuable

1120
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,280
time on social media.
We're like you and I wouldn't be

1121
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,280
talking here today if it wasn't
for social media.

1122
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,200
So like there's there's a lot of
valuable connectivity there.

1123
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,960
And I do my best to like train
my algorithm, not to just give

1124
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:43,200
me the shit that like is going
to just keep me coming back for

1125
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,520
meaningless reasons.
But like at the same time, they

1126
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,280
very quickly understand what
that stuff is for you and

1127
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,480
they'll feed it to you over and
over and over again.

1128
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:59,480
So like without the without the
motive or like the incentive or

1129
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:04,400
intention to be cognizant of
that stuff, it's very easy to

1130
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:10,000
fall in a similar trap of like,
you don't remember, you like out

1131
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,000
if you spend an hour scrolling
through Tik Toks, like how many

1132
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,160
of those are you going to
remember an hour from then?

1133
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,920
It's not very many, dude.
So like I walk this fine line of

1134
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,720
like trying to find connection
and communicate and support

1135
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,880
people that like, because social
media platforms are huge.

1136
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,120
I mean, you know, this is a
musician.

1137
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,600
Like it's a huge part of
becoming a musician now and

1138
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,840
then, growing your popularity,
social, but at the same time

1139
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,200
there's a really quickly a Cliff
that you can fall off, the same

1140
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,480
one that people use ATV for.
Yeah, yeah.

1141
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,160
I think like as far as being a
musician on social media, it's,

1142
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,240
you know, it's, it's really
helpful to for people that use

1143
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,520
it to like stay in their mind,
if that makes sense.

1144
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,960
Like I, I'm not one to put
something up there all the time,

1145
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,680
but I think it is important to
stay relevant in people's heads.

1146
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,520
So it's like, yeah, you got post
every now and then.

1147
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,080
You know, if there's like a
streak where it's putting more

1148
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,920
content up, great.
So it's not like a huge focus.

1149
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,120
I I've always been more of the I
also think it's just as

1150
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:20,240
effective to have other means of
communicating with people as a

1151
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,160
musician, right?
You know, like I do like my, my

1152
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,520
e-mail list that gives me a
direct relationship with people.

1153
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,400
People feel a little bit more
personalized with me now.

1154
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,240
We can chat, they can e-mail me
back.

1155
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:37,240
But I also know that, you know,
they're getting the new music

1156
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,080
and the tour schedules sent
right to them.

1157
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,520
And I find a lot more connection
within that and honestly, better

1158
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:50,720
outcomes and setting up posters
at the venues up in Door County.

1159
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:55,440
And if I'm, if I'm near a venue
that I'm playing out of town or

1160
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,000
maybe can send them some stuff,
so digital posters and all that.

1161
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:00,840
But you know, yeah, it's, it's a
fine line.

1162
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:02,560
I think they all work really
great.

1163
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:06,360
I think it's where you put your
efforts.

1164
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,280
Some it might work better than
others.

1165
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:13,040
And I, I tend to not put over
the top effort on socials, but

1166
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,680
I, but I like to stay relevant.
You know, I think that's, I

1167
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,760
think that's important.
You know, some people do get all

1168
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,080
their their information about
you through there.

1169
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,800
Most people these days like the
trajectory of a musician's

1170
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,640
career today.
If you would have told that to

1171
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,000
people 50 years ago, that's what
you had to do.

1172
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,880
Like, it would be astounding,
the difference, like the the

1173
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,680
contrast between those two
things.

1174
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,080
Like, it used to be about
creating that connection in a

1175
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:44,320
room with people and getting
them to come see you and like,

1176
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,720
play their music.
And it still is that, but now

1177
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,400
there used to be so much control
about that with like the, the,

1178
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,280
the suits, you know, like in the
back of the room, like this

1179
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,080
one's the guy.
We're going to put our money

1180
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:00,320
behind this person.
We're now it's like, no,

1181
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:02,440
Austin's the guy.
Exactly.

1182
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:05,120
So it's all.
Yeah, so that that's a real

1183
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,120
positive.
I think like having the power in

1184
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,960
the creator's hands super
important.

1185
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,920
And that's one of those positive
outlets that it I agree.

1186
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,800
So it has like this thing of, I
mean, TV does too a little

1187
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:22,000
differently.
But like, I don't know, I love.

1188
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,720
I mean, look at the look at the
career of Zach Bryant.

1189
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,920
Like does Zach Bryant happened
50 years ago?

1190
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,120
Absolutely not.
Like he doesn't have that song

1191
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,880
he's playing in the campfire,
drenched in sweat when he's

1192
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,520
playing heading South that goes
viral.

1193
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,720
And like, I don't know, there's
way more people throughout the

1194
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:46,720
years that didn't didn't have
the luck of like Jimi Hendrix of

1195
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,760
like blowing people's doors off
and having somebody say, this is

1196
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,200
the dude we're going to put our
resources behind now the

1197
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:54,840
resources are in your pocket,
dude.

1198
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,800
Yeah.
And you're like from before you

1199
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,520
said, like, you know, there's
that guy like that maybe has

1200
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,280
like 500 people on him.
But, you know, he has that

1201
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,560
ability to expose himself to
whoever he wants to know, you

1202
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:06,760
know?
Exactly.

1203
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,840
You know, or a way that people
can find him and, like, stay

1204
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:12,120
connected with him?
Yeah.

1205
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,920
As soon as he moves the barriers
out of the way that he's self

1206
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,480
imposing, yeah.
Yeah, but yeah, and there's that

1207
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,000
too.
It's like, you know, you could

1208
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,520
that, you know, it's creating
community in your own way is

1209
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,840
really, I think at the end of it
all, you know, that's like I

1210
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,920
said, like being folks here and
travelling that's I want to

1211
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,440
create communities in different
areas.

1212
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:40,320
So, you know, maybe not somebody
that has like, like super viral

1213
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:48,720
on TikTok or whatever, maybe,
but I have a core group within

1214
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:50,000
that.
And the number might look

1215
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:55,440
smaller, but you know, I'm able
to do this and people singing

1216
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,080
the words back to me.
And at the end of the day,

1217
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,840
that's pretty damn cool.
Yeah, dude.

1218
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:04,440
So you know, that keeps my heart
going in it.

1219
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,720
Yeah, you.
Know people do appreciate the

1220
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:12,240
music and I get to see that
tangibly physically in front of

1221
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,000
me so there's there's that too
but.

1222
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:20,920
And one of those is just as
fulfilling as 20,000 people that

1223
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,560
followed you on a social media
because you made a a funny like

1224
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,480
video that had nothing to do
with your music or something

1225
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,240
like.
That Yeah, Yeah.

1226
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:33,160
So I don't know, like both
relevant, yeah, but they both

1227
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,160
are just as rewarding in their
own way, for sure.

1228
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:35,760
I agree with that.
Yeah.

1229
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:37,120
Because that that is rewarding
too.

1230
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:38,800
Yeah.
You can't, definitely can't deny

1231
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:40,880
that, yeah.
Yeah, I had.

1232
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,680
Did you see that?
I'm drawing a blank on her name

1233
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:45,120
right now.
She's actually going to come on

1234
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:46,800
the podcast in a couple months.
I'm excited.

1235
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:51,240
But did you see the girl?
She's from Madison and she just

1236
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:54,200
like made that TikTok video.
She changed the words to an Ella

1237
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:58,560
Ella Langley song.
And it was like, she's from

1238
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:02,160
Wisconsin, I can tell by the
way.

1239
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:06,680
And then she and then the second
line was like, she goes, oh, oh,

1240
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,160
hey.
And it was like this really

1241
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,920
funny thing, but like the power
of that moment for her.

1242
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,680
Like I saw that video like a
thousands of other people did,

1243
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,440
went to her page and then found
this journey that she's on to

1244
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,560
coming to be a musician and
wanting to do the the walk the

1245
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,800
path.
And it's like you can't take the

1246
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,040
power of that away either, you
know, It's awesome.

1247
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:33,000
And it's just an outlet to
hopefully have, you know, that

1248
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,040
one person singing back to you
turns into 10, and then it turns

1249
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,600
into 1000.
And then I can't even imagine

1250
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,200
the feeling of, you know, a good
example of this.

1251
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:42,840
One of my favorite artists ever
is Tom Petty.

1252
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:44,320
I love Tom Petty.
Yeah, he's amazing.

1253
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:46,160
He's awesome.
I got some Tom Petty lyrics on

1254
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:53,840
me and I've still never seen
another show where like I saw

1255
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:58,720
Tom 8 or 9 times when he's alive
and every single time you would

1256
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:03,160
go 30,000 people in the crowd
singing every single word to

1257
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,400
every single song.
I can't imagine what that would

1258
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,280
feel like as a human.
I can't imagine being him on the

1259
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:09,760
stage.
Oh yeah.

1260
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,120
Yeah.
It would be like that has to be

1261
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,880
every single day of your life is
like a dream come true to know

1262
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:21,720
that like you moved that many
people's lives, that they know

1263
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,960
all of these words that you
wrote over and over and over

1264
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,160
again.
Yeah, like when he's doing that,

1265
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,480
I'm sure like just everything
just disappears.

1266
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,560
It has to be right?
That time at least, you know,

1267
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:33,440
time he's up there doing that,
yeah.

1268
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,400
You know, and that's got to be
why a guy like Willie Nelson

1269
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,880
exists where he's still just
trucking, man.

1270
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:43,720
Willie's awesome, yeah.
And it has to be constantly

1271
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:46,600
chasing that feeling.
I don't know.

1272
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,440
Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's
that.

1273
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,680
I mean, like, it's definitely.
You can't deny that.

1274
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,280
Like that.
That feels really good.

1275
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:57,360
Like you definitely crave that
as a musician, especially being

1276
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,240
a performer and doing that in
front of people.

1277
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,600
It's like, yeah, that's that
makes performing that much more

1278
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:07,240
rewarding, you know?
So that's a huge part of it.

1279
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:09,680
Yeah.
But, you know, guys like that,

1280
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,680
you know, who do it till they
die forever.

1281
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:17,880
Like, yeah, there's there's that
motivation.

1282
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:19,840
But you know, there's probably
so much more.

1283
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,360
You know, it's.
And I feel that as a songwriter,

1284
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,360
that's why I feel like this
would be my perspective on it.

1285
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,320
I've said I want to do this till
I die.

1286
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:28,760
Said that earlier.
Yeah.

1287
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,160
Yes, there's there's also just
the the writing songs and

1288
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,400
putting your heart out there
that feels good and people

1289
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,320
reciprocated just brings it up a
level.

1290
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:47,440
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, man, I.
Don't know, maybe I feel like

1291
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,600
Willie would be a songwriter and
say with Tom Petty, whether

1292
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,360
people are doing that or not,
Yeah, at the end of the day.

1293
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,520
Like that's what you think they
would resonate most personally

1294
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,360
with you think?
I think whether people were

1295
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,720
singing the words back to them
like they're, they're real

1296
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:04,480
songwriters, you know?
Yeah.

1297
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,920
Like, they'd be writing songs
like that whether they got hurt

1298
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,400
or not, and they'd be doing that
till the day they die.

1299
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,720
Agree.
Like, I don't know if just that

1300
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,600
in itself of the people singing
it back, yeah, that's a huge

1301
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:19,680
bonus, but I don't think that
would be the reason they do it.

1302
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,000
That makes sense.
Completely agree.

1303
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:28,439
Then because then if it, if it
was like, I, I think, you know,

1304
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:32,200
you don't get to that stage if
it is.

1305
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,200
And if you do, you don't do it
till you're 90 because they're,

1306
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:40,359
the motivation is different.
You know, like it, it's the same

1307
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:42,359
thing of like, there's this
adage, I like you.

1308
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,359
I've heard countless people say
this in my life of like, oh,

1309
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:47,560
like, give me that amount of
money.

1310
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,640
You'd never see me again.
You know, like talking about a

1311
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,439
professional athlete or a famous
musician or something like, Oh,

1312
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:53,920
give me that.
You'd never see me again.

1313
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:59,920
I've said it at times in my
life, but and as I grow and

1314
01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:06,760
reflect and learn and you know
all of that stuff, I don't know

1315
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:09,560
how many times that's like an
authentically true.

1316
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,240
Thought yeah, because you keep
going.

1317
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:16,520
Yeah.
Following, you know, because I

1318
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,399
would, I would, you know, I want
to write songs till I'm done

1319
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:23,560
because that's what drives me to
wake up every day.

1320
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,160
Yeah, you know, it's, it's not
the other stuff.

1321
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:31,240
What keeps me like motivated to
do something every day is

1322
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:36,359
playing music.
That's that's why I wake up like

1323
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,399
I would no matter what happens,
I would still be doing this.

1324
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:42,720
I wouldn't, it's never going to
leave me.

1325
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:47,040
It's like it's in, it's in the
blood and the, the ability that,

1326
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,840
you know, I'm able to, to do
this at this point in my life

1327
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:55,320
right now, you know, I'm able to
do this for, you know, this is

1328
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,680
this is what I do is for a job,
you know, that's just a

1329
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:04,040
blessing, you know, But yeah,
I'm going to be doing it till

1330
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:07,680
the day I die, no matter what.
I'll be writing songs and

1331
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,280
playing the guitar.
And I think that passion is the

1332
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,040
true reward because like when
you think of the audience in

1333
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,640
your words back that kind of
that, I mean, the, the good

1334
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:19,600
feeling about that is the
validation, right?

1335
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:21,560
That you did something that
resonated with a lot of people.

1336
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:28,440
You created a community, but
really at its core, validation

1337
01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:33,200
and like fiscal benefit are very
closely tied right there.

1338
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:44,800
It's like it's not satisfaction.
Satisfaction comes from the love

1339
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,680
of writing the songs and the
love of doing it.

1340
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,480
And like you said it when you
said like they'd be doing it

1341
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:54,560
either way, I think it's because
that's where satisfaction is.

1342
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:59,240
Satisfaction is an invalid.
It is in some ways invalidation,

1343
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:06,920
but it's like money, fame, like
that type of thing is, is good.

1344
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,840
But give that person $5,000,000
that says they're never going to

1345
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,520
see them again.
Sure, they buy a couple things

1346
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:17,200
they want, quit their job, but
then you wake up the next day,

1347
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:20,400
and then you wake up and it's
like, OK, well, now what?

1348
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,720
You're going to do something
that satisfies you, Truly.

1349
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,200
Yeah.
Just makes it easier with a

1350
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,040
bunch of money.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

1351
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:31,760
Yeah.
Yeah, at the end of the day,

1352
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:38,240
it's just like a picture of
myself being like 8090 years old

1353
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:43,000
sitting on the porch with my
guitar, telling, telling the

1354
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,520
stories.
Or maybe hanging out with my

1355
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,840
buddies who also are doing the
songwriting thing too, which

1356
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:56,000
still doing it, you know,
because that's what, that's what

1357
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:57,480
we live for.
Yeah.

1358
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:03,400
So, yeah, because there comes a
point where everything else, you

1359
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:04,640
know, at the end of the day, it
doesn't matter.

1360
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,080
It's like, well, how do you get
up every day?

1361
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:09,480
Like, what makes you, what makes
you want to be alive?

1362
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:11,880
Because all that other stuff.
Yeah.

1363
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:17,240
I really at the end of the day,
when everything's done, you

1364
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,120
know, I don't think any of that
matters.

1365
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:22,920
Really don't.
Yeah.

1366
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,200
Because that's, that's not how
we live as, as people even.

1367
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:30,440
It's all just, it's almost like
this perceived thing of what

1368
01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:33,480
we're told, you know, this is
what's going to make you make

1369
01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:37,840
you feel good, you know, And in
short term, it might like

1370
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:39,960
gratification, instant
gratification.

1371
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,280
But yeah, it fades pretty quick.
Real quick.

1372
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,840
Yeah, I just saw something the
other day.

1373
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:53,080
How did they put it?
It was like it was along the

1374
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:58,120
lines of the like the you've
never seen a bank vault or a

1375
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:03,200
safe behind a hearse or
whatever, man, I'm drawing a

1376
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:04,720
blank on.
It's such a perfect connection

1377
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:06,200
to this, too.
But whatever, we'll have to move

1378
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,040
on.
So I don't sit here and stare at

1379
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,960
the ground for 10 minutes.
But there's something that

1380
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:17,400
really like drove this.
It was that concept.

1381
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:23,160
Oh, I remember what it was.
It was like a like a pastor,

1382
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:27,680
priest or whatever that does
like the like when someone's

1383
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,640
dying in the hospital bed, the
final blessing or whatever they

1384
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:35,000
call it.
And like they're, I can't

1385
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,600
remember verbatim, but their
whole conversation was just

1386
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:39,800
about how they had done
thousands of those in their

1387
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,680
lives.
And the only thing like by a

1388
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:48,840
huge majority, the thing that
people talked about was the

1389
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:53,200
people in their lives.
It was never any of the other

1390
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:56,680
stuff.
And doesn't that quickly for me,

1391
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:03,760
it brings me to this place of
like comfort in a way, because

1392
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:09,440
all of that stuff that is really
easy to chase and get lost in,

1393
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:12,840
You just put it plainly, it
doesn't matter.

1394
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:16,520
It doesn't matter as long as you
have your basic needs met.

1395
01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:21,840
And actually, it kind of aligns
with the video game thing too.

1396
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,200
Like it, none of it matters.
Truly.

1397
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:28,800
What matters is like the
connection you made, the

1398
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,960
memories you have of your family
and friends, like the the things

1399
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:38,760
you did that like gave you that
true satisfaction.

1400
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,440
Yeah, that, like if there's
things in life that I would

1401
01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:44,000
stress me out the most, it's
like, it would be like losing a

1402
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,760
close friend.
Yeah, the that or just any kind

1403
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:53,040
of relationship, like maybe like
you messed up and you, you hurt

1404
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:56,360
someone's feelings that you
really care about people in

1405
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:57,320
general.
You don't even have to be

1406
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,840
friends with them.
Like, I don't know, I want to

1407
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,360
be, I want to be great with
everybody.

1408
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:07,200
You know, it's because, yeah,
that it's life, Life at the end

1409
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:09,360
of the day and having those
relationships and those are

1410
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:11,520
that's the most important thing,
community.

1411
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:16,040
And you know, you know, if there
is nothing you'd have, you'd

1412
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:19,400
have the people with you, you
know, yeah, you'd probably go

1413
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:23,000
over to your, your buddy's house
and like, oh, here's, here's

1414
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,800
some eggs or like from, from the
local chickens or something.

1415
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,320
And I'll hear some potatoes from
the garden, you know, and then

1416
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:34,000
we, it's all, it's all community
based and just the people in

1417
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,400
your life that that you really
care about.

1418
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:40,440
You know, I find that that is
the, you know, the thing I think

1419
01:15:40,440 --> 01:15:46,080
about most is how do I, how do
we all boost each other up

1420
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,760
together?
You know, that's that's really

1421
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,240
important.
Yeah.

1422
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,400
I mean, I could go on and on
about it, but those people,

1423
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:56,560
people.
Feel free, we got time.

1424
01:15:57,440 --> 01:16:00,760
Creating good relationships,
staying close to your friends,

1425
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:02,560
treating people well.
Yeah.

1426
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:07,160
And I, you know, as I, as I get
older, find that more important,

1427
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:10,880
you know, I mean, it's always
been important, but starting to

1428
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,800
realize that is the most
important part of it.

1429
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:23,280
But anything music and and life,
that's that's what I find is the

1430
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:25,080
core of it all, I guess you
could say.

1431
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,720
Do you?
So when you think of that

1432
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:34,200
concept, kind of what you were
just going through, that's one

1433
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,960
of the many reasons that I
really love Wisconsin is that I

1434
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:44,040
think our culture promotes that
or like supports that in a way

1435
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:50,040
of like being a community, I
guess, for lack of a better term

1436
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,760
right now in my head.
Do you think that had anything

1437
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:57,000
like, what was your experience
like when you left Wisconsin

1438
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,920
compared to when you came back
culturally being a person that

1439
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:03,720
searches for this?
Maybe it wasn't so stark, but

1440
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:06,280
I've heard a lot of stories from
people that left Wisconsin and

1441
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:11,160
like culturally, you know,
walking down the street and like

1442
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:14,160
not making eye contact with
people or like not having that

1443
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,760
same type of cultural connection
did.

1444
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,280
Did you notice that at all in
your?

1445
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:19,760
Journey.
I really love that about

1446
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,680
Wisconsin.
That's my favorite part about

1447
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,360
the area.
And I was the people who say

1448
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,720
like the Midwest nice, you know,
yeah, it's real.

1449
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:35,480
It's real thing.
But there's that bit.

1450
01:17:35,480 --> 01:17:37,200
But yeah, hold on that.
That was the biggest part that

1451
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:41,280
that drew me back was the
culture here when I'm gone.

1452
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,760
You know, I think Wisconsin does
that well, too.

1453
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,960
We got a bunch of like the
Midwest is like small town to

1454
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:50,040
the next small town.
It's like a couple miles in

1455
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:53,680
between versus like when I'm out
in other places, sometimes it's

1456
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,160
like 50 miles to the next town.
You know, that's, that's

1457
01:17:57,160 --> 01:17:59,440
interesting.
And so, yeah, that helps with

1458
01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:01,600
community and culture and our
families here.

1459
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:07,160
A lot of traditions and that go
beyond a family that we all

1460
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:12,360
share, you know, like, oh,
sturgeon Spearing, you know,

1461
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:17,160
the, the cheese heads and cheese
and all that good stuff.

1462
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:24,200
There's there's a lot of that
here that and I guess I don't

1463
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,880
see it on a as big of a scale.
Like I feel like you can go

1464
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:29,840
whole state and we all feel that
together where it's just like

1465
01:18:30,440 --> 01:18:34,280
other places I go.
They have that, but it's only in

1466
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:36,560
that town, right.
The next one over is his own

1467
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:39,840
thing.
So yeah, I mean, I mean, you

1468
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:42,440
can, you can find it anywhere
you go, but it's definitely like

1469
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,920
everywhere here.
Like it's very widespread.

1470
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:48,840
That's a good way to put it.
I never thought about it like

1471
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:52,920
that through that lens, I guess
of like, because when you think

1472
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:56,560
of those 50 miles in between
towns, if they're bigger cities,

1473
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,840
like bigger cities have the same
thing happen, but it's often by

1474
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:02,200
neighborhood.
Like you'll have a neighborhood

1475
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:04,160
connectivity, which is great.
We need that.

1476
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:09,400
But it's like, in some ways
Wisconsin is 1 big neighborhood.

1477
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:12,280
Yeah, exactly.
Stronger than some other places,

1478
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,040
yeah.
And yeah, and like other places

1479
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:20,960
I've been, it's like, you know,
more transient crowds out West,

1480
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:24,880
you know, just people move there
when they're younger and you

1481
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,440
know, so it's like you get all
these different cultures coming

1482
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:31,160
together, which is awesome.
Love that, see all different

1483
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,520
ways of life.
That's why I love going out

1484
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,880
there.
But so like those, those family

1485
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:40,760
things that you got and those
long history things like it's,

1486
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,480
it's within that 3-4 people
maybe.

1487
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:47,560
And just just theoretically it
might be that.

1488
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:49,480
And then this other group has
their own thing.

1489
01:19:49,480 --> 01:19:51,760
So it's like all this coming
together, which is like here,

1490
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:59,240
it's, it's more, there's a
longer line back of it.

1491
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,120
Maybe that makes sense because
the family's been here.

1492
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:05,040
A lot longer and sure, some
senses, you know, but I mean,

1493
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:09,360
you get that everywhere you go
wherever and there's family

1494
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:13,200
history and stuff.
I go back, but seems older here.

1495
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:18,680
Yeah, I don't know, it's older
in the States, but yeah, I love

1496
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,680
it out there too.
The cultures are really fun.

1497
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:25,400
Like the, the communities are
their own, their own thing.

1498
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:30,360
You know, I, I connect a lot
with the community and in Door

1499
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:34,400
County, you know, has, has its
variations from the community in

1500
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:39,640
Milwaukee or across or Appleton
Trumpolo, like that one really

1501
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:44,960
resonated with me and like super
deeply.

1502
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,680
And then what there's also other
ones like I really love places

1503
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:53,040
like like Ventura, CA.
It's awesome place of like, I

1504
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,240
have so many friends there
because like we all connect.

1505
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:58,640
We're on the same wavelength and
good community there, great

1506
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,520
local community.
But yeah, this place, I, I

1507
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:03,840
really do enjoy it here.
And you know, I'm, I grew up

1508
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,280
with it.
So it's that's what feels like

1509
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:08,360
home, too.
Yeah, that's part of it, is

1510
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:10,440
that.
Yeah, Absolutely.

1511
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:13,680
Well, awesome, man.
It was great chatting to you.

1512
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:15,160
Totally.
Let's wrap it up.

1513
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:17,920
Wrap it up.
When you wrote the song Up the

1514
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,000
River, were you thinking about a
specific river?

1515
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:21,520
Oh, down the river was down the
river.

1516
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:25,680
Sorry, the Mississippi River.
OK, that's where I would say I

1517
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:29,280
lived in La Crosse for a while.
It's like I always sit about,

1518
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:34,440
like sit in a Riverside Park
with my guitar and think about

1519
01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:37,680
where could that river go?
I was dreaming about travelling

1520
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:39,440
it.
So I got the gypsy blood.

1521
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:42,080
I think it's from there.
It's like it'll be really cool.

1522
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:44,000
Just cross that river.
You're out in another state.

1523
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:46,600
Pretty cool.
Like I've been to like, just

1524
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:50,120
driven to another state before.
So yeah, you get all these ideas

1525
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:51,520
and like, where could this take
you?

1526
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:55,160
Where what people could I meet?
Like, you can follow this all

1527
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:57,400
the way down to the ocean, you
know?

1528
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:03,880
So I, yeah, I wrote that just
about dreaming about where life

1529
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,320
could go.
You know, there's like stranger

1530
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:08,360
came up to me.
So you've been looking down.

1531
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:10,360
But wait a minute.
I wrote that part and like

1532
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:14,320
looking down because you're like
stuck in a place and like

1533
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:18,080
thinking about what about all
that's out there yet.

1534
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:22,560
So, yeah, that's how that's how
that that one developed down the

1535
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:23,640
river.
But yeah, I was thinking about

1536
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,520
the Mississippi River.
That place always connect with

1537
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,200
me.
Water in general.

1538
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:30,600
I love water.
Me too, man.

1539
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:32,800
Particularly rivers.
I love it.

1540
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:36,360
I named my son River.
Yeah, yeah, I love it.

1541
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:40,120
There's something about it, man.
Since I started trout fishing,

1542
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:43,800
it's become even more like
tangible and deep.

1543
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:49,040
But there's something about
moving water that like the

1544
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:53,840
timelessness of it, the serenity
of it, the the power of it.

1545
01:22:53,840 --> 01:23:01,240
There's so many things that like
man, like if anything's going

1546
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,720
on, lock me down next to a
river, let me get, let me get my

1547
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:09,560
toes in, like catch a couple of
trout and heaven on earth for

1548
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:12,640
me, man.
Something special to it.

1549
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,000
Yeah, there is.
Well, I appreciate the

1550
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:18,240
appreciate the conversation.
On your good chat, really great,

1551
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:20,080
really great.
Good luck with the show tonight.

1552
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:22,400
Good luck moving forward.
Yeah, keep crushing, man.

1553
01:23:22,480 --> 01:23:23,120
Right on you too.