Angela Schumacher - Maple Syrup, Organizational Success, and Natural Food - Ep. #2

0:09 So. Good to see. You, it's good to see you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So we were talking about it. You don't particularly have a slow season anymore. There's probably at one what Back when you were making Maple syrup there was a slow season, but now when you're making Maple syrup equipment? Oh yeah, because you know, people are getting ready for the season if if they're not in the season, they're getting ready for the season. So, so that's what we're doing right now, middle of summer and we're still running pretty hard get everything ready so.

0:50 Yeah. So I've been with you pretty much since the beginning of my Maple syrup journey. It's and you started before I did significantly before what was. What was your journey in the Maple syrup? Oh that. I know. I have always wanted to make Maple syrup, even when I was a kid. They had Maywood Environmental Park in Sheboygan and they always had this March Maple event where they made their own Maple syrup and they had this big pancake breakfast. And every single year I thought, I want to do that someday, but I don't have any Maple trees growing up.

1:33 And then? I started dating Jim and he had property up in the UP and I said, do you have any Maple trees on your land? He's like, yeah, yeah, I think we do. Yeah. And turns out it's like all Maple trees. So I was like, we're going to do this. Let's just tap a few trees and see what happens. And what I didn't know about him at the time was that when he finds something that he likes, he gets really obsessed with it. So. It just like snowballed, Like he started making his own equipment, and every year upgrading his own equipment and figuring out how we could do it better. And then next thing you know, we're helping other people and then it's becoming a business, and then we're quitting our other jobs and now there's fourteen of us doing it full time.

2:26 And it's a lot of fun. Yeah, making. What I consider, and I'm sure you all consider the the best equipment on the market. Like, there's there's no one that really holds a candle to your stuff. And that's amazing to, you know, to hear you talk about Jim and say he gets obsessed with it. Like you can tell. Like by the stuff. And that had to be such a wild ride, right? From like, hey, let's you got any Maple trees on your lawn or on your property to what you have now. It's like like you glossed over it in in a minute. But there's a lot. Within there, I bet. Yeah, yeah. We're shipping things all over the world. We got really nice SBA award a couple years ago for Exporter of the Year and we've even broken into unwittingly just other industries too. I didn't realize how much crossover there was with Maple equipment to other industries.

3:23 There's other industries that use our filter, press, so and our. Evaporators too. Like we've got a licorice maker in Great Britain using our gas fired evaporator and what else? A lot of pharmaceutical companies are using our filter press and CBD oil producers are using our press sea salt, they're using our evaporators. So it's really interesting to hear. All these different things. I'd love to learn more about sorghum. That's a interesting sugar that they're using our evaporators for.

4:03 So sorghum, Yeah, they actually grow it around here, but it looks like corn, kind of. If you don't know what you're looking for, it's I'm going to totally batch this. Whoever knows a ton about sorghum is going to be like shaking their head right now. But if you're a sorghum expert, just. You know, close your ears for a second. OK, so there's, it looks like corn or wheat or something, but I think their process is to, you know, harvest that and crush it and try to somehow get the sugars out of it. And they boil it just like we're boiling Maple SAP. They're boiling the juice or whatever from the sorghum plant and making sorghum.

4:54 Sauce. Whatever they call. It if you go down South, it's way more popular. Like I don't know if you've ever been to like Arkansas or they have restaurants and I was just in Arkansas last year. That's why I thought of Arkansas. Like a sorghum steak glaze or something. Yeah, like, do you want sorghum on your toast? You know, kind of like. OK, yeah, but. Here in Wisconsin, we do cheese curds. Cheese is dominant, but yeah. Have you ever delved into any of the like Birch SAP or anything like that? I've no I have not done it personally. Either I have. Tasted it.

5:36 It's pretty good. You tasted it. What's the difference? I've heard it's more bitter. Yeah, there is a very different flavor profile, but. If you do it right, it's still pretty good. I think it's a little bit more finicky than Maple syrup because I think they recommend that you use reverse osmosis because heating it like you don't want to overheat it and you don't want to boil it too long. So they use reverse osmosis to get it just right. There's a guy out in Minnesota who's a customer of ours who's like. Really knows Birch syrup. He's doing it really well. I've had really good ones and really not so good ones.

6:19 Sure, he knows what he's doing, Yeah. Do you and Jim Ro or do you? We have, yeah. Yeah. There's some years. I mean, we can't really do a lot of that stuff because our primary is to make sure everybody else is taken care of and that they can make Maple syrup. So we're helping them and. You know, it's nice when we can make Maple syrup now just because it ends up being an educational opportunity for our employees and community can come in and see how Maple syrup is made and but it's it's not like it used to be. It used to be just a thing we did to get away and hang out and just be the two of us out running around in the woods. But now it's more of a.

7:12 Educational community thing, which is that's cool too. It's just a lot different, yeah. Yeah, now you're boiling happens inside the shop, right? Yeah, awesome cooler that you have. We used to suffer out there like very first year. I remember we did it over at Campfire and we both got sinus infections from all the smoke and. I've got pictures of Jim laying on this bench with his hand over his forehead. You know, he's all tired. We had the alarm set. We go out every half hour, whatever throughout the night to put more wood on the fire. Because it was so inefficient.

7:52 We had to constantly feed the fire around the clock all weekend. Yeah. And that was in a flat pan. I'm sure that you're doing batches. Yeah, it was. It wasn't, Yeah, It was in this tall pot. It was like the most inefficient thing ever. And then after that we were still outside, but you know, in the rain and. Yeah. Stuff. So yeah, it's really nice now being in the shop. Yeah, boiling. That's got to be, you know, I've never thought about that through your eyes. You know, being a Maple syrup producer when you meet another Maple syrup producer. You talk about your Maple syrup lifespan. I started in my 2 catering pans over cinder blocks and then went to this. You have to have heard that story so many times. That has to be like when you go to trade shows and stuff, like you have to hear it consistently, right? Like and then there's always that next step you can take if you want to.

8:52 Right, right. Yeah. Like, I can't believe the number of times I have heard someone say like we're doing it in a Turkey cooker, but this we just need to get going here. It's not going very fast. You know, we're using so much propane. So yeah, I've there's very a lot of parallels and common themes that you hear. But you know, I don't think I would change my experience at all. I'm glad that we. Have tried all these different methods and suffered a little bit in the beginning because I can really understand when a customer complains about cone filters or complains about this or that or you know, boiling over our campfire, like I get it, I totally get it, you know, And a lot of our competitors, they brag like I am the 10th generation. I was.

9:51 We've been doing this so long and, well, yeah, I've been doing it. I mean, every year I I learn more. But I mean, I'm not claiming to have been born into this and have, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, I can. Come on. But I I'm really hungry to learn more all the time and and another cool thing is I think when you're just born into it. And you've been doing it your whole life and you're just doing it the way your parents did it. You're less likely to question like, does it need to be this way? Like why don't you do it this way or why don't we try something else, you know? And and I think that's really helped us innovate a lot of new products and and redesign things, you know, like I. With our filter press, like I can't believe that thing, the first filter press I think was invented in 1800s or something. It's so it's such a old piece of technology, but it's filtered so well, we still use it today.

11:02 But if you put that thing together backwards, there's so many pieces that have to go into this filter. Press and if one piece is flipped backwards. The whole thing, like you're just gonna mess up your whole filtering process, have to start over, clean everything. It's crazy to me. Nobody figured out a way to make sure you don't put that thing together backwards like we figured out a way. Okay, it's impossible to assemble this backwards. And why did it take, you know? Over 100 years or however. Long and thousands of lost bats, yeah. I know, I know.

11:43 So maybe it just takes like a new perspective sometimes to, yeah. Or fresh eyes. Absolutely. Like who was the first person that came up with the divided pan concept? I'd love to chat. Correct person, Yeah. Yeah. Because explaining a divided pan to somebody is. It's really hard. You have to actually do it to really understand it, I think. Everybody that stops by our sugar shack asks about the divided pan. Yeah, and I have this elevator pitch that I go into about the divided pan, but it's always like prefaced by. I'm not sure I completely understand it, but there's some like physics reasons why this does what it does. Comes in here, goes out there, you. Know and I could take this year and it's done when I open this nozzle.

12:33 But yeah, the the stories are great. The one I laugh about, a guy that's a good friend of our families and he's been helping for a couple years now to be another set of hands around. His dad used to do it a lot and they've aged now, so he doesn't do it anymore. But. He he's he's kind of a bser, so I don't know where the truth lies, lies in the story. But he's like when his dad used to boil it, he used to boil it on the Turkey cooker concept, but he would leave the lid on, he tells me. And so, like you would never get done if you completely left the lid on. He was like, and he just couldn't figure out why it lasted for why it took so long so, well, that might. That's probably why. You got to let that steam out. That's the whole point, yeah. Yeah, So what do you do?

13:16 I mean most people that. Do Maple syrup and become as passionate about it as y'all have like do other like Natural Food Harvest or out of door Activity? What are some of your other passions? Or what do you and Jim do when you get some time away from the? Shop like that's again, I'm learning more all the time. We just moved to the Kettle Marine Forest about seven years ago and every year we're learning about some new food that. Is all around us so that we can harvest out of our woods that we just didn't even realize was there before. Like, I know it's we haven't had a good Morel mushroom season in a couple years now, but that is super exciting. The Morel mushrooms.

14:04 I'm really curious about May apple. I haven't, and those are all over our woods, but I haven't. Have you ever tasted a May apple? I haven't. No. I've never heard of it. Oh, so. They're like these big broad leafy plants that stand pretty close to the ground and underneath each one there's a there's just one fruit that hangs from it and I think it starts out green and then when it turns yellow then it's okay to eat. I am scared to eat them or try one because. If you don't pick it at the proper ripeness, it's actually poisonous, so I don't know.

14:48 Plus, I know that the squirrels and stuff really love them, so they gotta eat too. So you leave. Before the Yeah. So that's something I'm curious about. We have tons of leaks. If you ever need leaks, I'll hook you up. Yeah, so many leaks. Leaks in maples seemed to go hand in hand in my property in the UP we had a ton of maples and like when you walked through when the leaks were good, like it smelled like a leak the entire woods. I don't know if it's the same for you. Yeah, yeah, you can look out our back window and just like there's this whole hill, just just leaks. What do you do with them? I've tried a couple different things. I've tried soups and.

15:33 Salads and mixing them in with like like making marinades and stuff. What did you? Use them for I never harvested any. I never used any. We had a ton, but I never used any on that property. A couple of my favorite things was obviously the maples. We had a ton of Raspberry bushes, so I loved that like that was crazy. The. Season right now. Did you pick any? Well, that was our old property. No, you don't have any? No. Now we went from 12 acres to the city lot you're sitting on. It's got its endearments, but not like 12 acres of walking through and picking raspberries during the whole summer. Samantha and I were talking about that actually recently. Our little guy loves raspberries.

16:15 It's one of his favorite things to eat. So I feel like every time I go to the grocery store I'm getting like 3 to 4 packages of raspberries. And I came home one day and I was like, man, I wish we had our own bushes. Oh, shoot. Should. Have brought you some. You have that too. Quite a few of them. Yeah, not so. We're noticing more and more lately on our property, but just really close down the road. There's wild raspberries everywhere, and the blackberries. I kind of like the red raspberries best, but. Yeah. They're a little sweeter. Yeah, yeah, they're good. Do you do the any type of gardening? Mmhmm. Yeah, we do have a garden, but it's a little bit tricky in the woods.

16:59 There's so much shade all around. We tried cutting a couple branches off a couple of the nearby trees, but our garden does see a lot of shade, so we're trying to figure out what can grow and what can't. Green beans. There's no stopping green beans, cucumbers. So yeah, we got some interesting looking zucchinis. I love seeing the weird shapes that of different plants that come out of the garden. Like, I don't know, we just planted some carrots. We had to plant those twice and just this is going to be a secret, just let's keep it in this room.

17:39 I'm pretty sure the 1st. Round of carrots didn't turn out because I thought I was picking weeds and I was actually picking that pick of the. But don't tell Jim. I was like, wow, must be a bad batch of seeds. I don't know. But. It looks like parsley. Yeah, so I was totally hands off with the second round of planting and it worked out. So I don't know. You'll still end up with plenty most of the time when you plant carrots like. You have enough carrots, So what you need like you end up with a bunch. And of course we got tomatoes. And yeah, I just like all the different colors. And I like having a colorful plate.

18:23 Yeah, so and fresh stuff. So it's good. I like having that close relationship with my food and knowing where it came from and feel good about it so. Absolutely, Yeah. It's so much more. Satisfying and fulfilling, I think another important piece of that. I was thinking about this the other day, like not only the like the vegetable aspects of our diet, but I think it'd be a good thing if a lot of a lot more people were connected to like the meat that we decide to eat. When we do eat like that. I think our relationship with food would be a lot different, just. We it doesn't have to go all the way to mindful eating. I don't know if that's a term that you've delved into at all, but just having the relationship and understanding where it comes from.

19:17 And I think I started thinking about that. I was reading a story about like a place had opened and. I would botch the numbers if I tried to say them, but it's X amount of animals they could process in a day or whatever and it was a astronomical amount mind blowing to me. And I think being far removed from that process changes how and why we eat. Absolutely. I think there'd be so much less waste. Yeah, I think there'd be a lot less. Pollution, you know, a lot less. I don't know. Habitat loss, you know, and I think, I think it's, you know, you can harvest deer off your property.

20:07 That's I think that's a noble and ethical way to feed your family. You know, some people have a hard time with hunting, but I. Don't know. I think it's sustainable. It's free range, It's a great harvest. You know, we can take our deer to the DNR each year, then they check it to see if there's any. They track CBD across Wisconsin, so we like to help with that research. So we let them check the deer for CBD and also at the same time they'll check the deer's teeth and tell you how old it is and.

20:48 They told us last year like, wow, this deer you can tell it's so old. See how, you know the older they get the more their teeth wear down. And if I mean that would have, that deer would have had kind of like a slow and painful. Yeah, nature death, you know. If you, if it hadn't been harvested humanely, you know. Cwd, I don't want the online folks coming at you. What did I call it? CBD, but it was because they're using your filter. We were just talking about that. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah, I completely agree though I've had a lot more robust conversations.

21:30 There's a lot more to be said in the conversation between like vegetarianism and non hunting than there is for like. To me, the person who eats like the steak and says you shouldn't be hunting like. Yeah. I know those ones never last very long, cuz we probably won't find much common ground. I don't know, There's a really amazing documentary called Stars in the Sky. And so anyone who has a trouble has problems with hunting or, you know, harvesting your own meat. I think they should check that out, and I think it's really good. It shows both sides of the story, both sides of the argument, but it's just really beautifully done and to me it kind of connects that.

22:15 It's just part of who we are. It's so in our roots and I don't know. Yeah, so I'll have to check that out. I remember it. Stars in the sky. It's an amazing documentary. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, actually. I think I have heard of that, but I didn't watch it. Isn't that Steve Rinella? Yeah, it's a. Steve Rinella thing. Yeah, yeah. It's really good, you know, I'm. Glad you brought that up. I heard about that quite some time ago and then it kind of slipped off of my radar. I love Steve Rinella's stuff. It's great. Yeah, he's good. Yeah. I couldn't. The waste part just really sticks out to me, though.

22:56 Have you ever watched Alone? Have you watched Alone on Netflix? Or or the. History Channel, Yeah. Where they get lost or not lost. They thrown out into the wilderness. They just got it. Yeah. Yeah, I. Love it. I I watch religiously like I love that show. There were times when I told Samantha, like, I think I'm going to try out for a while. Sound like my. Husband. I never did. But I love it. And you'll see. Like what? Really, one of the things that sticks out to me is they'll have like. Like on one of the seasons I remember distinctly one person did a really good job of trapping mice like they trapped mice with like this rock trap. And you watch this person who has been on a very lean diet, living on hardly anything for thirty 6090 days and how they eat and ingest 1 little mouse that they roasted over a fire and like.

23:57 Enjoy each bite and like, savor it and truly appreciate what it was. And that's, I'm sure it's part of the production of the show too. But it's a recurring theme of like the appreciation of what the land has given us. And I think it's another thing is it's probably part of the type of person that does that right? Like they understand. But that's such a different that's a whole different reality than wolfing down a cheeseburger after work. You know it's. Have you ever? Seen anyone do that when they're like ripping open a thing of baloney? Thank you for this. 1000 pig feet. Yeah, no, it's. Totally different when you have to have and plus it reminds you like, hey, an animal gave its life so I could.

24:45 Of mine, so I I'm going to make sure this is not wasted, you know? Yeah. So yeah. I think about sharing that with with our son as we get older and think about how to navigate those waters, about the, you know, the loss of a life to sustain your life and and all that stuff and maybe the maybe the documentary would be a good first step in yeah. I mean, hunters are the biggest conservation. Group out of any other group like I mean because of hunters conservation is. Alive, you know.

25:29 So. You know, all it's it's a weird paradox, kind of, you know, yeah, we're maybe paying for A tag to go harvest a deer, but then that money goes back into. Conservation and managing and it just. Makes me sick and what? Was there. There was a story. I think it was Northern California. There was a big. Uproar about they had a hunting season for, I don't know what it was. I want to say Mountain Lion or something like that. And then?

26:12 They did away with the hunting season because there's a big uproar. We don't, we don't want to kill that animal. But then the DNR went in and was like, well, okay, we need to manage this. It's getting overpopulated. We need to manage this animal And then, so then they had to just cull the animal, so they use the. Nice instead of harvest, but then. No one's it's like that. Animal could have fed families that animal, you know what I mean? And why are we just? It's generally the apex predator that that happens to as well. There's a weird relationship between that, right? There's a weird relationship between the animal lover and the apex predator. And then there's room in between there of people who have encountered those animals and then people who have read about those animals and then people that have an idea of those animals and the management of them and. There's a.

27:08 There's a weird. Navigation through all of those that has its own little tug of war at times, yeah. And. What's another thing that's interesting is how uncomfortable I feel talking about it right now. Yeah, you know, because I I just know that there's people who are probably listening to this podcast who are very sensitive about the topic and. Yeah, I'm super. Like if I'm just talking, If I was just talking to you off camera or talking to my husband, I'd probably feel a little bit different. But now, like, I feel like, man, I want to make sure I have all my facts right too, that I don't say something totally wrong, you know, but isn't. That weird.

27:51 Where we are, that was that's something that's crossed my mind as I started the podcast. I was considering that very. Whatever you want to call it that that paradigm that exists of the what you say and then the ramifications of it are in are so divisive at times and and just the that's a big reason why I'm centering the podcast around what I do is, is because I think conversations connect people especially long form conversations. Short form conversations.

28:33 I have been used a ton in you know traditional types of media as of late to to take a snippet of a larger point and then either glorify or vilify somebody about one specific point or another. And I think, I think long form conversation combats that to to a certain amount and then I I think just as a. Way of building community. I think sharing long form conversation is important. So it's funny we got there. That's some of the reason why we're sitting here chatting. Yeah, well. I totally recommend Stars in the Sky, because what are everything they say in there? I just.

29:19 It resonated with me and they can say it way more eloquently than what I can say. When I'm nervous, well, he's a he's a wordsmith. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a talent in and of itself that I think that's a big reason why meat eater where it got to where it is actually similar to the long form concept he he has just has a way of telling a story that draws you in. Oh yeah, amazing. Storytellers, yeah. Yeah, and we're very. Relatable kind of down to. Earth people. Yeah. So. Do you? You don't. You don't have a separate piece of land where you do your Maple syrup or or yes. Hunting or anything.

30:07 Yes. So we do when we when we moved here, we bought some hunting land north of Pulaski and I hunt there with my dad. That's not where we do our Maple syrup though. Now, now we do our Maple syrup on my dad's property. We've always kind of split it. When I was in the UP, we had our evaporator up there and he would drive up with like, you know, a 55 gallon drum of SAP and he would bring his and then I would have a couple 100 gallons and we would boil there when we sold that property and all of the beautiful maples that were on a hill facing my. House that I could have this awesome gravity feed.

30:47 I had so many plans there. But we ended. Up leaving that now we make it at his, we still have more trees than we need. I think this year we, I think we tapped right around 200 this year and it's virtually me and him and then the guy I was talking about earlier he'll he helps out quite a bit but 200 taps for three people and we don't RO so. That's a lot of work. You know as well as anybody. Maple syrup season is one of those things that starts off as excitement and then by the 5th weekend in a row when you're in season, it's like this war of attrition. Right, like you just gotta. Get to the finish line, yeah. Yeah, and like Marathon.

31:30 Yeah. And you see the SAP still running out of the trees and you're like, is it gonna stop? Like, I think I see a bud, right? That's gotta be a bud, right. You feel guilty? Pulling the taps if you see that SAP running down the trunk, right? It's like this weird mental thing like you're wasting it, isn't it? Like, yeah, isn't. It and it really, You're not. No, no. It's part, yeah. That's such a. Weird thing. We talk about it every year, and I think half of it is wasted effort, right? Because you're like, I already tapped all the trees, we already cut the firewood, the evaporators been burning for four weekends in a row. Can I just gut through one more weekend to get, you know, whatever our batches are usually maybe 8 to 12 gallons on a weekend now, thanks in large part to your equipment because they used to be about. Two to four I would say.

32:21 And now we can do so much more. So it's like, can I got through that weekend and get one more batch or do we just pull in this year we ended up week. I'm sure we could have win another week this year, but we were pretty drained by the end of it. But yeah, it's that weird thing. You're not really wasting it, but it feels like it well. There's two types of fun. There's one type of fun where it's like. We am having so much fun at this moment, like ha ha ha And then type 2 fun is when things are rough like you got to really work and it's kind of a. But then when you look back on it, you're like, that was amazing and I think that is what Maple Season kind of becomes for a lot of people like. At the end of the season, you you're just so tired. You're like, I don't know if I ever want to do this again. But then you, you know, some time passes, you get a little separation.

33:21 You look back on it and you realize all the benefits you got out in the woods, You're with your family, you got some fresh air. It was. Look at this great product you made. It's all good. And yeah, it's nothing bad. It was great. Let's do it again. Yeah, Yeah. And then it. Never fails. Once February rolls around, you start. Everyone's got the itch. Yeah, looking at the. Forecast and doing that, Absolutely. I don't know how much I've ever had the first type of fun. I think my fun is the second fun. Usually, yeah. Usually, yeah. I can't think of a wee fun like roller coasters. Roller coasters. Yeah, I don't like roller coasters.

34:04 Yeah, fun. But like I said before, I'm not a heights person so. That'll take a well. We went on the Canopy Tour this morning. You wouldn't maybe have liked that it was Canopy Tour. Have you been to this Canopy Tour at the Green Bay New Zoo? No. It's really. They have your up in the trees and you can kind of walk through the zoo and. They've got little informational placards all over. You can walk. Yeah, it's. Like a little canopy walk. Like little suspension bridges that go all around. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Interesting. How high? Are you? That's a good question. I mean, you're up where the leaves are and like a Maple tree, I I mean, I don't, I'm not sure, 3040 feet. Yeah.

34:51 Yeah. OK. I'd say that's a good estimate. OK. It's great. Interesting. I got to see the Penguins from above and the monkeys, and what else did I see in their natural? Habitat 30 feet below Maple Tree. Right. It was cool. They have some, like informational things up there about the animals. Is it enclosed? So you're still learning about everything around you. So what's? What's like the vibe? Like, are you on like a bridge or is it enclosed in glass or like what? Are you surprised? How? Narrow it was. It's like a single file suspension bridge and goodness with like with.

35:33 Like rope edges. That's what I It is ropes. Yeah, it's ropes. Ropes. Yeah. Ropes maybe go out to my shoulder and and there's nothing in. Between the rope and the bridge. It's the It's like a netting rope. A netted rope. So if you've tripped or something, you're not gonna you get caught by the net. Yeah, right. But I'm. Sweating. Thinking. About it, yeah, I don't have. That for your heights. So I was like we skipping across these suspension bridges and Jim's like stop. Shaking the bridge, you know, And he's holding on. He's like, hold, hold my water. I can't, You know, I need to use both hands, yeah. Like my fingers.

36:17 Are gonna fall off for hours. It gives me the heebie. Jeebies. It was great, but. Yeah, it's. It was a pretty neat thing. I think it's new. I think they just built it like a year or two ago and I've always wanted to see it and I finally got to see it. Interesting. Yep. I learned that emus can run 30 miles an hour. And did you know it's the males that sit on the eggs, not the females? Interesting. So the female lays it, the male sits on it. And then does the female go get food? That's usually what the other animal does. Oh, they didn't say. That, but I was just like, alright, right on. Oh, and then this was really interesting.

36:58 They have Japanese macaque like these little monkeys and they've got. Like pink faces and pink butts. But the sign said if they get really angry, their face and butt turn a different color. So it's like an inside joke right now. Like, if Jim is getting my husband, if he's getting really crabby, I'm just gonna ask him what color his butt is. And immediately, he's. That angry, right? Right, but it's already red. I wonder what color it turns. Well, it's like I. Think it's different shades. It's like I'm having a mood ring, like a built in mood ring. Yeah, a butt mood ring.

37:45 So that was really interesting. And the nature is great. I think nature is amazing. Absolutely. So yeah, we had the. Mountain versus ocean debate earlier we were both on the team Mountain. Even though I'm scared of heights, I do like mountains that. There's still ground underneath you. That's a whole different thing. Yeah, it's. Different When you feel like you're just out and open, yeah, it's something about. If I get to a certain level for some reason, all I can all I can imagine is that my body is just gonna, like, spontaneously jump from where it is. Like I'm not gonna control it. I don't. Know why? But that's what I'm thinking. It's clearly not gonna. Like all of a sudden I'm just gonna step off the edge for no apparent reason. So as a.

38:27 Child, did you? Go on, Jungle Jim's where you are, Yeah, jumped. Off swings, Yeah. See, the fear of heights for me doesn't start until probably above 20 feet. Like I can get. I can get 20 feet pretty well. We talked about hunting a lot. I'm a bull hunter. I generally like to be up off the ground when you're doing that. So I can do that but like. There's somewhere in there, there's a cutoff. It's probably about 20 feet that it goes from. Yeah, this is awesome to never want to do this again. There's that much room in between, yeah. OK, but yeah, I'll climb the jungle gym. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, the. Is that the junk? Is the jungle gym the metal thing, the metal Dome looking thing? Or that's the thing we used it as. More of like a vague term to just anything, anything you climb.

39:18 Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah, so I saw when you, out of door activity, you pulled in today, you've got your bike on the back of your car. That's another one of your activities, yes. Bike to the beat is tomorrow. So. We're going to go. I think we signed up for the 16 mile bike ride, so let's be fun. They've got different stations you can stop at along the road and listen to music and get snacks and yeah, I. Bought an E bike recently. Is that cheating? You bike. I'm really curious about those. I've done a test drive of one I thought was pretty amazing. Just think of how far I could go if I had that extra little zip. You know?

39:59 You don't know. It's awesome. Yes, I looked this up before. My E bike is currently out of a Commission. It broke. We can talk about that. But there is the Fox River trail that goes like I don't know if it turns into a different name, but it goes all the way almost to Hilbert like it comes. I think it does. Almost. Isn't that an old Rail Rd. Something like that, yeah. And I looked and I was going to like, I could have ridden my ebike there. I robably would have had to charge it a little bit, like when I got there to like I could have came and like looked around. You need like a. Tesla No. It's just the wall. No, I was. I learned that recently too. Tesla's when you set something in their GPS, like you always think, like, how's the Tesla gonna do a cross country road trip, right?

40:46 Like when you put something in a Tesla GPS, it maps the route that you can pick where there's Tesla charging stations across the country. That's smart. Yeah, so no I didn't need that intricate of charger though. I just would have needed like a wall plug in probably 3 hours a time. So, but to a biker, the E bike isn't cheating. I just, I think it's great that you're out there and moving your body and enjoying. Nature and the outdoors, so I have no judgment for me. No. I wondered where it landed. I wondered. I'm sure it lands different with everybody. It was super fun. It was great. I bought it pretty much like to commute back and forth to work on nice days.

41:28 That was awesome. It was great All in all. And then one day I just stopped working and I haven't had it that long and now I'm having some warranty issues with the company where they don't want to do the warranty. So that's frustrating. So I don't know I I was completely campy bike until now. I'm in the middling ground. Did it poop out? On you while you were at work Or were you at least at home? It was on a ride, just a leisure ride. It's funny, I I I bought it as more of like a functional thing and then end up really liking it. So like I I wrote it for enjoyment a lot. And I was on like a leisure ride and it just like started kicking in and out.

42:11 And then the next thing you know, I was just peddling. Peddling like the. Rest of us? Yep. Like the rest and it's I didn't, I didn't estimate or I may have underestimated like how like it's a fat tire E bike and it's super heavy because it's got that heavy old battery. So it's not like riding a normal bike when the batteries went on. It's just like slogging on this, like heavy, like Titanic, seemingly bike, and just like the lowest gear going 3 miles an hour, probably walk faster. And then I got home when I was sweating and like I'd actually been biking. I know that you. Have a son, cracked. Do you ever pop him on the back?

42:54 And I was going to, I was in the process. There was a there was a lobbying effort on on my part. I wanted to get the trailer behind it. It went They would go really fast depending on where you set it. And I had I was I was lobbying for the the the trailer behind the bike to bring him a lobbying my wife for said permission to do that. And I was just about there when the bike broken so when the bike broke. So I hadn't I had read kind of some horror stories about the the things that sit on the rack you know like the the plastic thing where you see the kid in the like right in the back like riding double recycling. So I wasn't going to do that. I was going to get the trailer.

43:36 But I think he would have loved it, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like who would? Yes, looks. Like, fun? Yeah. So 16 miles, you're doing a ride tomorrow. Is that like your normal? Yeah. And. They have ones that go much further than that. They have roads that are twice as long as that. But we're just gonna do the little one and and that's something you and Jim do together, like you both bike. Jim won't be joining me on this one. I'm just go meeting up with a friend. Got you and a friend, yeah. And we do it every year, so. We'll do it. See how I feel tomorrow or I mean not tomorrow, Sunday, normally the day after I'm feeling a little. Do you bike pretty avidly or is it just just by happenstance that this bike run is tomorrow?

44:19 No, I'm. Super regretting that I haven't gotten out on the bike more right now because I know if I do 16 miles straight my butt is going to be so much pain. I've got the padded. Seat and the padded bike shirts so. I'm doing everything I can to be alright for tomorrow. Yeah, see, that's something I noticed you do. You get like a what? The more you ride. It's it's kind of like playing guitar, where you get calluses on your fingers, like you get the butt callus. Yeah, the bike butt. I don't have that. Callus built up yet? So but. We'll just do it, man. So how, how long was it like from when you started that first like Campfire Maple syrup adventure, which was that has to be the way to put it. The first year is an adventure for everybody. When we make Maple syrup, how, what, how long of a time span was it between that and when Smokey Lake became a business? You know.

45:19 It's all kind of a blur to me now, but I'm just gonna say maybe five years, four years maybe. And I remember. Saying to Jim, like do you think we would ever have a storefront? Like is that what you're envisioning? And he's like, well, yeah, I think, you know that would be the probably the next step and. And I just. I was like, I just wanted to tap a couple trees, man. I decided to have a little fun and try new. That's my thing. I like to try new things, you know? And but no, it's it's. Cool.

46:02 That you can start something, you know, find something that you really love and are passionate about and grow it and you can turn into something much bigger than ourselves, You know, I thought it would just be this little side thing that we did and. I don't know it. Just kind of all happened. Slowly at. 1st and then all at once. It's weird when you look back on. The last year or last five years or 10 years and you're like, wow, we really did a lot. I think. We tend to underestimate what we can get done, you know, today or this week and.

46:47 You know. Or no. So we overestimate. We overestimate, like, oh, I need to get done all this stuff, you know, It's like a Tony Robbins thing, right? I think that's a, he says. You overestimate what you can do in a year and you underestimate what you can do in five years exactly. Exactly. That's where I was going with that. Yeah. So I know. Yeah, you. Just keep trucking along and then you. Kind of get lost in the whirlwind I would imagine when you anytime you're in the, it's kind of like a rocket that's taken off and you either hold on or you're like. Yeah, great. The way the way your growth has been phenomenal and it's clear to see why. I think that's another that'd be another interesting thing to talk about is I I like talking about like organizational culture and like how you can be effective as an organization and how that kind of leads to excellence.

47:41 And I mean that's so clear in in your products and in your business like your end product is so pristine and like the the, the path to get there between customer service and like the experience like that has to stem from how you've built the business. Like do you have intentional steps that you've put in place in growing the business or is it just that that's innately who you both are or how would you say you got to that point as a business man? There's so many ways I could answer that I feel like in the beginning I would. You know, any business, the business owner is trying to do a lot of different things.

48:23 They're trying to do everything on their own. And then once you bring other people into the business and you're trying to expand. You have to. Teach that person all that you know and. And in doing so you realize, Oh my gosh, I cannot believe all the things that are just in my head. You know, like and now I have to. In teaching somebody else, you realize, okay, I need to simplify. I need to how can I make this make more sense and so that we can grow and all roll in the same direction. And one thing that we're just really starting to embrace lately is the importance of having team values like a common value structure.

49:13 And I always thought. You know, 10 years ago I would have said that sounds like kind of like fluff, you know, or that doesn't like is it really that important, But really it is like I our values are accountability, reliability and craftsmanship and quality. So it helps just explain you know what we are expecting of each other and helping us all. Move in the same direction and so just having it seems so simple and but it really has made such a huge difference.

49:56 I think your growth probably demanded you do that because early like especially, I mean your your your employees are hands on folks doing hands on things. You could be very selective at the beginning of somebody that you knew exactly the type of work they were gonna do and you knew they embodied those values, but you didn't have to write it on paper. Now with the growth you've had like you have to, when you think of onboarding someone new into your environment, you have to almost have to have that preface of saying this is how we do things here. But that's exactly why what I'm getting at with that question, and I think you got there perfectly of like every pan that leaves your guys's place, every arch that's there, like you walk in and you like it's like a Maple syrup or is Mecca when you walk in like it's stainless everywhere and you start, you know, dripping one single tear when you rock it.

50:51 But like there's a that was demanded probably because at certain point like I think we talked one time and and at that point I can't remember how many you said but it was you could take several welders if you would have been able to find them. That scenario leads itself to like Okay. Here's how we on board and here's how we do things at Smokey Lake. Like because you, I know how, I know how your organization and you both operate. Like you you don't want, you're not looking for someone for a year or six months. Like you want somebody that's going to enter your organization and and help build and grow together and mutually beneficial. And like without that preface of that it's hard to convey that. I think, yeah, it's good to.

51:37 Have a It's like a foundation like, hey, this is what we're going to build on together and. I think if you know what you stand for and what you're about, then other people can work. Clearly decide hey do I wanna be part of this and. Whatever. How did that decision work for you as the company grew? Because you said earlier that like Jim is the one that's obsessed and you know, he said the storefront. So how did that work for you about navigating what you wanted to do within the business and like what your roles, responsibilities, how did that develop with you? Oh. Well, that's an interesting question because that might be all kind of changing coming up here soon.

52:23 Yeah, but like I. Kind of. I would call Jim our visionary. I think it's important for every organization to have a visionary on top and. Pushing to do new things and innovate and you know. Chart A. Chart a direction you know. But then underneath each visionary you need to have an implementer. And I think that without me realizing it, I kind of became an implementer and so I I go to.

53:03 A career council. Not a career counselor, but like a like a leadership coach. And she had me take the survey where I could find my 5 strengths. And I I realized like one of my strengths is that I like to make things work or to fix things. And so I'm always like seeing ohh this is the vision. And then I need to. I always want to like. Fix it and make it happen, you know? So I think as we grew, I realized, wow, there's so many things to like, fix and do.

53:44 I can't do it all. So I've got, you know, our office manager, Jenny. She's doing a. Lot of like logistics with the shipping and all of the financial stuff. She's the fixer there and I'm. The fixer in the marketing. And so it was kind of by need and now it can develop to somewhere where you kind of like can be a little bit more intentional, I think. Yeah, we started out thinking, Oh, well, we can be kind of like a flat organization where we're all important, we're all links in the same chain and we're all pitching in and we're all making this thing happen. And now we're thinking, OK, well, we're getting bigger. We need to have more structured accountability. So instead of me running around to every single person in the business and saying, oh, did you do this? Did you do that?

54:44 You know, like how, how are we doing on this project? I should only have to ask. You know. Two people and those two people are taken care of. Three more people and you know there's there should be more of like a we're realizing that this flat structure is not conducive to. Hierarchy. And or it's not conducive to accountability, you know, because everybody is like, well, that's you don't want people to think, well, that's not my job, someone else will do it. And not just accountability, but organizational direction.

55:25 The the, you know, the the cogs in the wheel, if they're not touching, don't always have the same message or the same story. That was a that was kind of like a hype thing for a while, like we're flattening our leadership or we're flattening our organization. Was that a trend? Yeah, I think so. I felt like it was for a while, but through a different scale. I think that's a very natural growth of a of a small to medium to a large to a Fortune 500 company. There's going to be a certain flatness at the smaller levels. I think there were a lot and they're probably there's some organizations that needed it that had some redundancy that you know, in places that didn't need to be. But I feel like it was and maybe I'm completely making that up. But I mean, you've.

56:19 Been talking to a lot of different business owners and so you have. You should be telling me some insights like. I'm fascinated by leadership methodology. It's something that that's one thing that it's been one of my amount of rabbit holes like I'm I'm like you. I like learning new things and leadership was one that stuck with me. I've I'm still studying leadership. It's there's so many different ways to look at it, and it's it's it's this weird area where there's seldom like a right answer, which is kind of fun. It's frustrating at times, but it's there. There's some certain there's some certain like home bases or or cornerstones that if you hit consistently you'll lead well and and like a lot of it.

57:11 And I think it's nice to see in the just the landscape of what work looks like right now, is that most people understand that leadership is human 1st. And if you understand the human element of it, you'll rarely be let astray or go wrong because you everyone makes mistakes. You'll make mistakes all the time. But if the human element is okay of it and the respect is a two way St. and accountability is a two way St. leadership past that is kind of easy. Yeah, that's the yeah. I I think that's one cool thing about the size we are now like yeah, we're we're doing a lot of work and. There's a lot going on, but we're still small enough to all meet on Monday morning and check in with each other and say, OK, where we going this week?

58:13 You have like a whole organization get together on Monday mornings. Little cool. Yeah, during the busy season it gets a little rough because the phone starts ringing earlier. But yeah, this time of year, every Monday we'll get together and. Say OK. How did we do on our intentions from last week and what are intentions this week? And go team, yeah, we kind of talk about our values a little bit. Try to keep that at the forefront. And you know, those can be super effective. I'll never forget my first experience with one of those. Really, I was either.

58:56 I was just graduated from college or maybe still in college, I can't remember. And I was. I was working part time in radio at the time, waiting for my full time, first full time radio job and like I needed more money. Like I I I didn't have enough money coming in. So I started applying for some jobs and I I don't know what you would call it. I I want to call it like fell victim too. But I that might be a little strong. I started working for this company and they sold office supplies.

59:37 But it was a really, it's not like like the first thing you probably picture is the office if you're an office fan. I don't know if you watched the office. Yeah, not like that. It was like out cold calling businesses, like cold stopping in businesses selling office supplies. Yeah, and they're big. I'll never forget their big hook was that their paper was cheaper than anybody else's paper, like their reams or boxes of paper. And it was All in all was just a terrible opportunity because there was no like book of business or client list and anybody who's in sales like. That's what you have, You know, like, that's how you make your money.

1:00:17 Like you'll never make a living consistently. Like, even if you sold somebody that box of paper, like, they're not your client, like another person from that business can go there and sell them a box of paper tomorrow. So it was just this weird vibe overall. But I'll never forget there was this really, like, cringy meeting like that that was so not well done. Tell me. More they sang this weird song. It was very like cultish in a way, and the air was heavy, like sometimes you can, you know you can. It's palpable when things are strange.

1:01:00 Was there like were? They burning candles. No candles. No candles. And looking back on it now that I know what I do like the whole, like, HR process was very strange. And it was like it was it was all really weird and there were red flags everywhere. But being a a college student that had never been in the professional environment like that, like I worked at grocery stores my entire college career and then I started working part time in radio stations, which are their own little animal. So entering the business world, this was like a eye opening moment. I was like, is this what it's like everywhere? Like this is really weird And I and I was relatively good with numbers. So after a couple days I was like there's no way this is going to acquaint into a salary that's going to be like I could work part time at somewhere else and and make more just set a part time salary.

1:01:55 So I ended up leaving that very quickly. But the that that scenario really sticks in my mind of like that I don't have a. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they would knock me down pretty fast if I suggested like, OK, let's all sing this song. Together it was, I can't even really remember it. There was clapping involved and everybody was in a circle in this big open room. And I remember talking to a couple of the people there. And what started being the red flags that stuck out to me on top of it was that all of the 10 years were like two months, four months, five months, three months.

1:02:36 Like no one had been there for an extended amount of time. And I just don't know how everybody learned the song. They give it up on a screen. Or something. It was the strangest thing. But that's the that's an anomaly. The there's the and I since then I've been in so many of those environments that do that like the Monday morning get together that's such a conducive like growth filled touch base. Yeah. And I, we like to have a little icebreaker because I want our coworkers to like gel and like you know, talk about something other than pans and Maple syrup. You know, let's, you know, get to know each other a little bit And yeah, it's it's been a good.

1:03:27 Good thing. Yeah. How surprised are people when they come and pick up their first like piece of equipment from you that maybe like I imagine there's people that order from you that didn't even know you were in Wisconsin or so close. And then they come and see like this world class equipment is made in their backyard and they didn't even really know it. Like, is that something you run into? Yeah. We get people say a lot like you make that here, you know? So like everything's here, you know, you know, and you know, granted we get parts from all over, but then we take those parts and we, you know, all the TIG welding, all of the MIG welding.

1:04:09 We have our own fab department and yeah, they do a great job there. I don't even, I don't refer to them as welders most the time. I just call them our artisans because they just do beautiful work. You like there's no grinding on our welds, and I don't know, I feel like I'm getting too salesy. I'm just I'm. Really proud of them. It's it's hard not to be. There's a there's a certain level of when you have a certain level of excellence. It's hard to talk about it without feeling that way. But I mean it really is true like, and it's a, it's a I talk about it all the time to people, especially people that don't make Maple syrup. They're like somebody will stop by when we're in Maple syrup season and be like, oh, where'd you get this? And I'll tell them, like if they're made in Wisconsin, they're literally the best on the market. Like out of anywhere in the world. Like I've seen the other stuff and this stuff is the best and it's awesome to talk about it being in Wisconsin. So it like it's it's hard not to when it's that good, you know it's it's just it sells itself.

1:05:23 Pretty proud of it, Yeah, yeah. What a journey. What a journey. What's the what's some of the stuff that sticks out about the like the unknowns when you when you're in a, when you go through a journey like that of creating this business that does what you do. What are some of the unknowns that you look back on throughout the years of ownership being like, man, I didn't expect that or like that came out of nowhere. What? What? Ohh man. I would have had to think about that. I think ahead of time because I I know as soon as I leave here I'll think of 50 examples. There's been so many, but I know that there's been some really.

1:06:05 Crazy things. I got the way credit card companies work, I think. Was it really eye opening to me? I didn't realize every time I bought something at the store, you know, such a little bit of money, yeah. They just. Take a chunk just for processing the transaction. I didn't realize it was a percentage of and then if I and I when I returned that item to the store, I didn't realize that the credit card company keeps their cut. And. Yeah, I didn't know that till this day. I didn't. Realize that when.

1:06:46 Someone disputes like if I dispute a charge. On my credit. Card like a fraud charge or whatever. The credit card company isn't just like, oh, we'll make it right. The credit card company is like, oh that business. I'm going to take that money back from that business. Even though they fulfilled the product. I'm going to take that money back and give it back to this person and. So I don't it's there. I guess if you're a credit card company, that's a good business to be in. They're just. They're like. They win every time.

1:07:27 Like I I've it's like being the one that follows the law and the one that writes the law. Like, yeah, if you write. The law you're really making. Bank, but I don't know. I guess that was surprising. There's a lot of things, I think. Human psychology is really interesting and you learn a lot about people when you're just working with them, trying to get them set up with. Things, you know, I don't know. I had what I had a really interesting encounter the other day.

1:08:07 Oh, I went to get a pizza and there I'm. I can't believe they didn't kick this gentleman and gentleman's being kind out out of this restaurant, being extremely like belligerent about not having his pizza in time and swearing and then made threats towards the server. And like I I couldn't believe how well the people that were there handled it. I was having a hard time as an innocent bystander outside of it. He was so mean and so abrasive and like both of the two individuals that worked at the place handled it so, so well.

1:08:52 And that aspect of it has to be tough at at business ownership. Sometimes we don't have to talk about it, but that part of the human psychology when someone is, you know, rude or or hateful or something like that is difficult to even see from the an outside perspective and then like to be one of those two people involved in it would have been extremely difficult. So it's. Hard. Like we always say, we want to be people's partner in Maple. Help them achieve their goals and we want to see them successful and really excited about that and then if you.

1:09:36 Like. If they do something that feels. Like it? Not as. You know, like if they try to, like, I don't know, lie about whatever, I don't know. I try to keep it positive though. You know, it comes with the territory somewhat and it's really a, it's a it's a great skill to have to be able to, you know, like there's the duck adage, right? Like a like a duck the water just runs off of their back, right. To be able to just let that, like I know that to some extent that interaction with those two people that had to impact them in some way on their humanistic level, but like to the to the eye and hopefully later on as they like reflected on that they were hopefully like just like well, that was crazy.

1:10:30 And then with their life, yeah, it didn't let it, like, stick around and be this this thing. Yeah, yeah. In that scenario, I'd rather be the bystander with. Of popcorn like what's? Happening. Like watching. Volley back and forth. Yeah, I was definitely the Is that a Michael Jackson gift with the popcorn? Yeah, whatever. Wanted to Yeah, I was definitely that, yeah. And then it got to the point where I almost like. I considered saying something, but then I didn't. And then you waffle over that like, should I have, Shouldn't I have like? What I have made it worse would have escalated it, I don't know, but it was a very interesting scenario. So I I can certainly see how that you know that takes different different routes every day. Well, good news.

1:11:20 Is probably that I can't think of. Scenario right now. I guess I did just let it. So you know, we don't know what's happening in other people's eyes. They can have a bad day too. So that's a that's a really important lesson there. There's a lot of kind of language around that. But like how almost always someone's actions aren't anything to do with what you did, but it's like with what they're going through. Yeah, and I. Try to always tell myself you know it's never wrong to be kind. Just be. You know, they can have a bad day, but I gotta. I'm responsible for me, you know? So I try to do that. That's a that's a really like customer you know customer service oriented way of thinking that's a how how is that that part of your business has to go absolutely crazy during season. How how do you operate that, like how does your, what is your customer service department like who's answering the phone? Yeah.

1:12:19 So it's. Jim, Jimmy, Jenny and me. So there's four of us constantly answering the phone, and it's kind of funny because people will call and ask for a specific person. And so Jim and Jimmy, you know, those are really close. That'll get confused. And then they're like, can I talk to Jenny? Well, that kind of sounds like Jimmy, Jimmy, Jenny, it's like. And I'm just. Angela so, but yeah. We're doing our best and we've got a pretty good online knowledge base now where we're always putting stuff, You know, I want to make sure people can get information anytime, even if I. We're closed.

1:13:07 You know, I want people to be able to get stuff, and we're getting better instruction guides all the time. And you know, you you don't. I know a lot of people think of like, oh, it's just an instruction guide. You know, it's just to throw away a piece of paper. But it's really saved us a lot of phone calls. So like, we're trying to make those better. Like we put a lot of emphasis into those little pieces of paper, trying to make them better and clearer and. It seems like there's been a huge boom of digital resources in that arena, too. I learned of some of the tech in setting up the studio that before, like it used to be, there was a certain time where it was just like, OK, where's the tech support number Now? It's like, OK, where's the support guide? And generally, most of the stuff I buy now, like you click on this support guide or whatever they call it and then there's probably some FA Q's of things that you're going through. I had to kick myself moment yesterday setting up the studio. There was a piece of equipment that I couldn't. It wasn't outputting how I thought it was going to and I went the old school way.

1:14:15 I called the tech support and I was like, here's what I got going on. And I could hear, like, I could hear him click, click, click. And he's like page 42 of the user support guide. And I said, oh goodness, I didn't have to call you, man. I'd have to call you. But he helped and he was nice. But yeah, there's just a bunch of like that that's probably by need of of businesses that, you know, you'd have to try to minimize those because if it's you for answering the phones during busy season, Oh yeah. It's thousands of people and just four of us and yeah. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, if we're all on the phone and someone will then e-mail, like every e-mail address that they have, and then they'll leave a few voicemails and then three people are trying to respond to them. Yeah.

1:15:08 So we're trying to really stay on top of it so that people get answers right away and they don't have to worry. Yeah, how do you like during busy season? How do you how do you like manage that personally outside of work Like how do you maintain and and how do you like worry about your own Wellness cuz busy season You're crazy. How do you how do you how do you center yourself outside of work? Oh, I. Think I'm still getting better at that. It's hard to separate, but yeah, I remember when we were really early in the business, I remember waking up in the morning to the phone ringing. And just answering it while I was still laying there and trying to help people and now. I have like, okay.

1:15:54 I've got the work phone. I've got this phone. Right now I'm dedicated to my family like this is my intention. This is I want to be present here and I feel like life is a little bit more fulfilling when I the more the better. I get at separating the two and managing time. The healthier I feel? Absolutely. Yeah, so. Yeah, it's a constant work, I know. Yeah, it's hard. To balance that and it's been a learn something I'm still trying to get better at.

1:16:35 Yeah, well there's that just keep moving aspect too. Like I learned today from you that if if a shark stops moving, it dies. So you know you can just keep moving, but it doesn't have to be always in the same direction. You can turn, yeah. That's right. Yeah. And it used to be when we first started out, it was just the business was so all consuming. I really lost myself, you know, in so many ways. Like I I stopped. Having. I stopped trying new things and. Meeting up with friends and I was just like, I can't have to work, you know, and even on the weekends. So I got, I got to use the weekend to catch up, you know. And now what's that?

1:17:24 How does this, that's the point of diminishing returns. I like, blasted right through that and I was not even efficient anymore. I was just, you know. It. Wasn't healthy. So to someone passionate about trying new things that had it, was that like an awakening when you did, when you thought of that, Like because when you're in the moment, you don't think of that. When you're in the weeds and you are busy, busy, busy, you don't think about the things that you lost. But do you remember thinking about like, I actually like trying new things? And when was the last time I tried something you like? Do you remember? Did you have a moment like that or I remember? You know, after a certain number of years. Of just being so dedicated and focused on the business. And I remember feeling like I had lost myself and wondering how I got here, like what happened, you know, and it was hard to retrain like, OK, how do I get back there? Like how do I?

1:18:27 How do I try new? It had been so. Long, I couldn't even remember what. What? Who I? Was, you know, I had to. This is weird. This is. Becoming a therapy? I should get some Chase lounges here. No Comfy. I need a I need a notebook. I suppose that's really. Common too, with a lot of the people you've talked to that in the beginning you're it's a hustle. You got a. You know you're doing a. Lot of wearing, a lot of different hats trying to get this thing off the ground. It's immense amount of pressure. It's a pressure that you put on yourself, I think. And then it it almost turns into necessities. Probably be a better word than like an addiction. But like you become ingrained in it and it's it, it becomes an extension of yourself.

1:19:23 Actually, I had a guest on. I had this conversation that was fascinating about how important it is to separate yourself. Like, you aren't an entity, you are a human, right? But separating yourself between those two things and then how that in itself leads to happiness. And take some of that weight off the shoulders of being like, OK, it's Sunday. If I don't work on Sunday, I can work on Monday and it's going to be OK and it's and and my work will be better, yeah. Yeah, I remember loving Christmas. More than I had ever loved Christmas because I felt like, well, on Christmas, everyone for sure is giving me permission to not work right, Like even myself. Like nobody's expecting me to be there to answer the phone on Christmas, right?

1:20:17 You know? But I think too, like going back to the values that we talked about earlier, I realized that. Okay, I have to make sure that. You know, if I don't have like my my business is not my identity, my my business should be the fruit of the things that I value. So what do I value? And then I need to do things centered around those values. And if the business leaves, well, I still have my values and I do other things that those, you know, like I I had to detach the business as my identity and understand that it's my values that are my identity, absolutely. I say that, yeah, yeah, 100%.

1:21:09 Absolutely, yeah. And I mean, you must be back on track of doing new things. You said you tried surfing yesterday. My gosh, yes, that was fun. Blue Harbor has this surfing experience thing that the kids make look really easy. So I was like, I'm gonna try that. I gotta sign a waiver. No problem, you know. That's never the red. Flag. I might die a shirt. It should be like, isn't it? Why is it so easy to sign a waiver and not even think about it? I'm not even gonna read. Whatever. Yeah, but yeah, like the kids are doing all these tricks. And my goal was, I'm going to, you know, you start out on the board on your stomach, water is rushing by you at 1,000,000 miles an hour. And because they're simulating that you're on this wave or something, my goal, I'm just going to get up onto the board on my knees.

1:22:07 And that ended in a face plant a few times. But my friend was videotaping it and listening to the audio on the videotape, she's like, she did it. She achieved, even though, like me pulling myself up on the board lasted for like a fraction of a second before I ended in a face plant. She was still proud. And I was like, maybe I'm too hard on myself, you know, I got out there. That's a great. Person to have in your corner. I know that's like. The growth mindset person like you did it. She said. I did it. I did it, you know. And and so you said, you said the kids make it look easy. Was there like a was there like a 5 year old and the next like stall over just like jumping three 60s on the surface. Yeah, they had to be like maybe like 8, you know, they're just doing all these tricks and that practice. Yeah, they probably did it before for sure, right? But yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. I'm I'm glad I tried it.

1:23:09 And what else have I tried recently? We're gonna bike to the beat us tomorrow. We talked about that. Would you? Would you? Surf in like the ocean or like I know people even surf in Lake MI. I don't know how good it is. I'm a surfer but would you surf in like the water? Water. I mean, I wouldn't say no, but it's funny because I grew up in Sheboygan and they call it Malibu of the Midwest because that's like the surfing hub of the Midwest. I've never surfed in Lake MI. I just I I get have a weird fear of. Water.

1:23:53 I don't know what's in it, but I mean, especially when you can't. See your feet? Well, yeah. What's the worst that could happen right in Lake? Michigan drowning. Yeah, slip on a life jacket. And yeah, I don't. Know in the ocean the I think is the the intimidating factors are a little bit more like, yeah, scary. Right. There's no sharks in Lake MI. Yeah, but. That we know of. A really good friend. Of mine when we were in college, asked if there were sharks in Lake MI. She she had no idea. She didn't. No, the units are absolutely yes, I probably. Did.

1:24:34 I probably still would. I probably still would. That is definitely a type of joke, yeah. But it's awesome to try like trying new things. It's awesome to like we talked about earlier pushing yourself into uncomfort I think is I don't know it's probably necessary in in some. Ways of looking at it, but like, it's always just so fun to just like get out of something, you know, inside and out, I think, and just explore something you completely don't know, you know? Oh well, it helps you see the familiar things in a new perspective, too.

1:25:18 So even doing something familiar in a completely different context, starting there, like, I can't think of, like I know a guy who loves to see movies, but so then he'll go see a movie in another country and just see this little nuance, like differences and how they do it over there. That makes it fun and interesting and new. Even though it's just going to see a movie, it's it's new and fresh, so. You know. So maybe that's a good place to start. If you're afraid to try something new, do something you're familiar with, just in a different kind of different way.

1:25:59 That's a that's a fascinating way of thinking about of like, how to do something. Like, I love seeing movies. I'm going to go see one in Lebanon like see how they do movies. But yeah, absolutely. Like, oh, here's an example. So we're talking earlier about hunting and my husband Jim. Also, you know, we live off of venison throughout the year, so but he wants to make sure he's not wasting anything. Like we want to make sure nothing's thrown away that doesn't have to be. So he took, what do you call them, Shanks, because these are normally thrown away because there's so much silver skin and whatever. But then he listens to a podcast that was talking about how if you put those Shanks in the slow cooker for like 6 hours, all that silver skin turns more gelatinous, like more like a collagen.

1:27:03 And it's yummy goodness. So he had this in the same podcast. They're like, Oh yeah, you take all these different Peppers and you make this. What is it called? Adam, Adam, Adam. Adobado sauce, Right, you're. Thinking of something different because Jim was talking about that too. OK, but this is this really spicy sauce with all these adobo. Sauce. Yeah. Adobo. Yeah. So where do you get all these Peppers? You know, so we've been to the grocery store a million times, but we've never been to the Mexican grocery store. And going in there was so much fun, like all the different things that they had, and I can't wait to go back. So, and also cooking, taking a piece of meat, we've we're grilling and cooking all the time, but we had never used that particular cut before and doing something with it, it's a lot of fun, yeah.

1:28:10 Yeah, that usually ends up being Stew meat, but I learned that same thing. Oh, you did? You've done this low cooker method. Yeah, but I. Think that's what Asabuco is. I didn't do the spicy way. I learned it from my cousin. This might be a Rinella thing too. I think it is where you like. I have. I have shakes in my freezer right now. It's funny, you grow up absolutely bone in and everything that you. It is exactly what you said, like the silver skin turns into like that enjoyable thing to eat as opposed to if you've ever had it when you like just like fried like a venison steak or something, it's not enjoyable to Yeah, it's like, I think they actually, I think the Native Americans used it for like rope and like cordage and stuff, didn't they something. Yeah, yeah.

1:29:02 I'm not. It's not a pleasant like you don't think of it as something that you can eat. Yeah, until you. But then it slow cooker magic. So did the. Adoba adoba was generally very spicy, I think. Was it pretty spicy when you made it? Yes. Nice. But it was also one of those things that somehow gets better the longer everything sits together. So two days later, it was even more magical. Nice. So is cooking. Do you enjoy cooking? Is it something you do? Like for you enjoy cooking? Someone's gonna come over to your house and you're gonna cook them your best dish or like your favorite dish that you cook?

1:29:44 What are you cooking? Well, we're really on a Bon Me kick right now. Have you ever had Bon Me? Yeah. I have. Do you do the sandwiches or in like a bowl bond like a bond meat type bowl, rice bowl with venison? I hope that's all we have. But yeah, love that. And right now we're gonna be able to use cucumbers from our garden. Nice carrots. So yeah, I got. Bond me, I'll give him a shout out because I had a good experience with them. I learned about bond me from. I believe it was every plate one of those meal delivery services making the bon meatballs. And we don't have the service. Like we don't have the meals coming anymore. But I still cook it all the time because it's fantastic. That's where I learned about that with and super easy like raw veggies and then nice little spicy sauce on top. You know what though?

1:30:36 I used. I can't. It's like a red pepper sriracha. Sauce paste that I used to buy that the Peppers like had a bad growing season or something and then it was off the shelf. So I I got this like knockoff sriracha. It's not the same. Really. Yeah. Don't go for the knockoff, Sriracha. And it wasn't. Even technically, they find it like the dollar store or something. The knockoff. Where do you find a knockoff Sriracha? This I bought, I would have bought that at Fresh Thyme. I bought that. It's knockoffs, probably a discredit to the company like they're they're legit and it's Sriracha.

1:31:16 But I used to like it was the stuff I would buy wasn't Sriracha was like a chili garlic paste that really made the meal and then. I couldn't find anymore, so I'm kind of on hold with the with the bond me. I hate it when that happens. Like, right now you just can't get the peanut butter we like at the grocery store. Is there, like, a peanut shortage that you know about? Like I haven't heard anything. But I eat peanut butter nearly every day. Yeah. What's what's like? Your go to peanut butter that you can't get? Well, it just has to have one or two ingredients. Like it's just peanuts and salt. We don't like all the other junk in there. Yeah, me too. And I usually I try to get organic peanut butter, but organic peanut butter is like a lot more expensive than the regular.

1:32:02 So it depends on the day. But yeah, I don't with like when there's added sugar or even when it's like honey, like, I just want the straight up peanut. Well, I mean, I'm getting my sugar from the Jelly. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. What do you use your peanut butter for? Is it peanut butter toast? Peanut butter every, almost every morning. Yeah, for it. Now I go on kicks that this will last like six months and then the next thing you know I'll be like on an all Berry breakfast, try something. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, make sure I'm getting my nutrients. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rotate. So that's interesting. That's like what percentage of the meat that you eat in your house is, you say it's, is it all venison?

1:32:43 That's like all the yeah for protein. I would say it's probably 90 to 95% wow of our. Protein that we consume? That's awesome. So then I feel like you're probably understating your garden then. Like, how big's your garden? It's maybe like, well, yeah, like probably the width of this room. Okay. Yeah, yeah. About our space that we're consuming here. Okay. We got some pots I guess to scattered along the driveway with different things in them, so I'm not counting those, but that's awesome. Though I wish I, I love venison.

1:33:31 I wish I had that commitment. That takes a commitment to do, yeah and we process it all ourselves and we have a really interesting customer. We just made a delivery to his house recently and got to talking. Turns out he is one of like the best fur hide processors like. In the Midwest. And so he may teach us how to process the hides. He does it the old, old school ways, you know. It would be kind of another cool thing that you can do to not let anything go to waste.

1:34:18 Learn something new. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A buddy of mine, I think he still does that, traps and processes the furs and then takes him to sell them and. Oh, really? Yeah, absolutely. I never got. That's one thing I never delved into. I never learned much about that or anything. But like all of those, Anytime I hear something like that, I have to like. Contain my my want to like dive in at first because it's like that'd be cool to learn how to do. I'm going to learn how to do and then the next thing you know like this room will be filled with first, right? It's like. Change the set, it will be all free. So funny.

1:35:02 But I think that's a certain level of, you know, the the curiosity that comes with that I think is hard to turn off at times, you know? Well, it was awesome having you in. I appreciate you. Yes, coming in for having me. Yeah, it was a delight to see you again.